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OceansAway
Oct. 4, 2011, 06:55 AM
Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone can provide examples (preferably videos) of a great canter. More specifically, I am not looking to see videos of horses that are already schooling really well in dressage. I am looking for examples of a great canter from a prospect horse, that doesn't have dressage training or very little. I want to educate myself as to what to look for if I am looking for a dressage prospect. Horses off-the-track would be an easy example of what I am looking for, but really whatever can be provided is perfectly fine. It would also be great to get a few sentences as to what I am looking at in the video that makes that particular horse a good example. Thanks, everyone!

TickleFight
Oct. 4, 2011, 09:53 AM
Finding canter videos of newly off the track horses (CANTER and Finger Lakes, etc.) can be difficult. My recommendation in these cases would be to look for a great walk, since the quality of the walk is often an indication of the quality of the canter.

Valentina_32926
Oct. 4, 2011, 09:58 AM
Just look for canters with lots of jump - air time - and which can be lengthened and shortened. Of course they should be 3 beats. For prospects I also like to see them do flying changes (tempi's) in the field (if possible). :eek: That's when you know they have talent! :)

dudleyc
Oct. 4, 2011, 10:20 AM
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2011/10/04/eine-offenbarung-fetches-top-price-2011-munster-autumn-elite-auction

Click on the video link on the upper right. this is a 3 year old mare. The canter should be swinging, and rhthymical with a clear 3 beat and a clear moment of suspension. You want uphill balance. You want the hind end to reach well underneath the body and to see bending of the hocks. The canter should look effortless and joyful.

This example is just a video clip I happenend to see today. In my opinion, this is an exceptional horse she has 3 very good above average gaits. My favorite gait is her trot.

If you look at the elite auction links or bundeschampion links you will see a lot of good canter examples in young horses

CFFarm
Oct. 4, 2011, 11:03 AM
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2011/10/04/eine-offenbarung-fetches-top-price-2011-munster-autumn-elite-auction

Click on the video link on the upper right. this is a 3 year old mare. The canter should be swinging, and rhthymical with a clear 3 beat and a clear moment of suspension. You want uphill balance. You want the hind end to reach well underneath the body and to see bending of the hocks. The canter should look effortless and joyful.

This example is just a video clip I happenend to see today. In my opinion, this is an exceptional horse she has 3 very good above average gaits. My favorite gait is her trot.

If you look at the elite auction links or bundeschampion links you will see a lot of good canter examples in young horses

Yummy filly

altjaeger
Oct. 4, 2011, 11:44 AM
Wow, that guy's feet (in the linked video) were really swinging.

SisterToSoreFoot
Oct. 4, 2011, 12:35 PM
I'm not writing to brag, but I believe my young horse has a good canter for dressage, and he's not a $$$ money WB so he's a good example of what a nice canter looks like in a more everyday horse.

http://www.vimeo.com/29484418

Just look at any of the recent vids, most show some canter. Most canter is at the end of each clip, so just advance the vid until you see it.

He's four and developing his strength, but you'll notice a few things about his canter:

1.Rhythm: He has a very clear natural rhythm, even on the earliest canter vids. His rhythm is quite consistent, regardless of whether he's working in an "up" or stretched outline.
2.Balance: Watch him in the corners. He sort of "stands up" and naturally balances himself and doesn't lean or scramble. This was not trained in.
3. Use of hindleg: Even at this early stage of his training (and he's been trained by a non-pro, I might add), he still shows a good hind leg that naturally steps way under in the canter. If you pause his canter at the moment he's pushing off, you'll see how nicely under himself he is.

I think he's a good example of a naturally solid canter for dressage.

alto
Oct. 5, 2011, 11:03 AM
Wow, that guy's feet (in the linked video) were really swinging.

You just need to watch more of these auction riders - they are very active with aids.

LaraNSpeedy
Oct. 5, 2011, 10:00 PM
I look for horses with jump and powerful hinds and ability to do changes.

We bought a horse from a nutty lady who demonstrated a horse cantering on the lunge in the mud on the side of a hill. He was up, jumping into the canter and great balance DESPITE everything. He is amazing.

OceansAway
Oct. 10, 2011, 04:05 AM
Thanks, everybody! I can definitely see the reach in the videos, however, for some reason, I can't tell what "jump" is. I know I can feel a great canter, but when I see these videos, I can't see the jump in the gait. That aspect all looks the same to me. What part of the horse's body is even doing the jumping? What am I supposed to be looking at, exactly? Please explain! Thanks!

TemJeito
Oct. 10, 2011, 09:45 AM
Maybe it would help you to compare the two videos. Both horses have nice canters, but the first has lots of jump and the second doesn't.

Valentina_32926
Oct. 10, 2011, 02:25 PM
Jump = Air time = suspension.

WBLover
Oct. 10, 2011, 02:42 PM
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2011/10/04/eine-offenbarung-fetches-top-price-2011-munster-autumn-elite-auction

Click on the video link on the upper right. this is a 3 year old mare. The canter should be swinging, and rhthymical with a clear 3 beat and a clear moment of suspension. You want uphill balance. You want the hind end to reach well underneath the body and to see bending of the hocks. The canter should look effortless and joyful.

This example is just a video clip I happenend to see today. In my opinion, this is an exceptional horse she has 3 very good above average gaits. My favorite gait is her trot.

If you look at the elite auction links or bundeschampion links you will see a lot of good canter examples in young horses

Yes, but those canters are going to CO$T you $$$!! Big time!! :)

SisterToSoreFoot
Oct. 10, 2011, 05:25 PM
OP,

I think jump can best be seen by watching the rhythm. If the horse has good jump (or will be able to develop it, if you're looking at a young horse or one off the track), then there should be a "pause" between strides. That's the moment of suspension. My horses canter strides are really defined, in part because he hangs in the air a split second between strides.

Wish more people would post examples for you. It would be nice to see other nice canters, from a sampling of breeds. I KNOW there are lots of nice horses+ canters on this board.

SuZQuzie
Oct. 10, 2011, 05:37 PM
When I went to see some yearling/2 yos, it seemed like the ones with a great, uphill canter were the ones more likely to play in the canter (leap, lead changes, bucking, mini rears-canter-thingies) while those without a great canter would run and get pogo-stick like with straight front legs. Of course, there are exceptions, but the more extravagant babies in their play tend to be the more extravagant horses undersaddle.

cb06
Oct. 10, 2011, 06:53 PM
O.K., I'll play. Maybe this will be a half-way relevant example.

I bought this 9 yr old 'project' gelding out of someones 'backyard' very, very cheaply. He had absolutely NO dressage experience and very little, if any, formal training of any kind.

Here is a short video of the 'raw' material taken last year very shortly after I bought him and BEFORE any real dressage training began.

http://youtu.be/UOOFcW3iYIs

In spite of his AA owner's (me) VERY limited training experience/knowledge and only sporadic lessons, we showed at 1st level this year with scores in the mid 60's, 7's on his gaits and judges comments that he can easily get higher scores if he relaxes a little ('we' get a little tense at shows)....plus his rider (me), needs to improve A LOT. :)

No, he is not the 'uber' mover like the auction filly above, but then again, I didn't pay big bucks for him either. :winkgrin: BUT, I think he has very nice raw gaits, is very balanced and rhythmical, has developed even better jump in his canter, and counter-canter is a breeze for him. He easily overstrides at the walk by about 2+ hoof prints....and offered effortless half-steps in my lesson on Saturday. :cool: We will be working on our changes this winter and hope to show solid 2nd and school 3rd next year.

There are diamonds out there....good luck with your search.

eta - STSF, VERY cute horse!

KrazyTBMare
Oct. 10, 2011, 08:15 PM
Well here is Rex. I think he has a nice canter. He def has a really nice rhythm. He doesnt have the big jump right now but I def feel that once hes in true work that it will not be a problem.

Here in this video he is 3.5. We were still dealing with the "oooh Im not going to turn... ok I will!" thing and just gaining balance with a rider on (and me working on riding a green canter and trusting to let go and that he will turn lol)

First Mr Trainer (I think this is like our 3rd lesson together and Rex's like 15-18th ride). He was playing around with his "changes" which right now are flat "hunter" changes but naturally there. Canter starts around 3:00.
http://www.facebook.com/v/1846381326478

And then me... yes we still have drunken baby horse and me! lol Canter starts around 0:58
http://www.facebook.com/v/1842421187477


In this video he is 4 month shy of 4 y/o. He has been u/s since Nov 2010 but by May, he had only had ~30 total rides since then (taking it really slow due to his size, etc). So this was around ride 25. Right lead starts around 1:30 and then left lead around 2:17
http://www.facebook.com/v/1910600451916


Hes a nice horse with ammy friendly gaits. Nothing you would see in those auctions or anything but I think hes kind of nice... lol

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 11, 2011, 10:01 AM
This is my horse two months off the track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm4K4YV56ps

This is him about three months later

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lka2albCKPA

Last July, 14 months after I got him off the track. Canter at around 2:00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0cQt15AYhg

TheHorseProblem
Oct. 11, 2011, 10:05 AM
I'm not writing to brag, but I believe my young horse has a good canter for dressage, and he's not a $$$ money WB so he's a good example of what a nice canter looks like in a more everyday horse.

http://www.vimeo.com/29484418



It's okay to brag!:)

How could he even concentrate with all that hay in the arena?

LarkspurCO
Oct. 11, 2011, 01:10 PM
How about a baby? Here's my yearling as a wee little tot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxkrn1bFtf4

And here's an older one form the same farm. I think this one has a very nice canter:

http://youtu.be/hC0JVdwK0f0

TrinitySporthorses
Oct. 11, 2011, 02:03 PM
Watch the hind leg that comes the farthest under the body (ie if horse is on right lead, then they will strike off with the left hind and the RIGHt hind will come well under the body). That hind foot SHOULD come all the way to the girth in a great canter. It might help to take video and then watch it in slow mo or to pause when the hind foot reaches its furthest forward point.
You could also look up stallions that received scores of 10 for their canter and watch all of them to learn what's good.
Stallions with exceptional canters include:
Fabuleux, Sir Donnerhall, Rashka, Don Romantic.
There are MANY more but that's what first pops to mind.

The more you watch, the better trained your eye will become- so sit down in front of YouTube for 10 or 20 minutes each day.

Good luck!

cb06
Oct. 11, 2011, 07:40 PM
That is good advice TS.

I played with the computer snipping tool and got these two pics from the videos of my untrained, project and that lovely auction filly, so you can see the differences.

.... of course, there are a lot of $000 difference in pricetag and training also..:lol:

http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq288/cb06_photos/cantercompare/

KrazyTBMare
Oct. 11, 2011, 08:57 PM
Like this?

http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/224394_1907602176961_1449009522_32131167_3046791_n .jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/199325_1869730590195_1449009522_32068613_8370157_n .jpg




Edited to fix links

Beentheredonethat
Oct. 11, 2011, 09:48 PM
The best way for me to tell a good canter is separation of the hind legs. I ended up by a horse I would have never looked at, but saw a still shot of a canter. What I want to see is the legs far under the body, as the shots above, and very separated. Both stills above show that, though you can see the uber expensive horse has them further apart.

This tells you a lot. A sound horse will out it's hind legs far under and separate them. A horse that's not sound or does not have good gaits cannot do that. You also want to see articulation, bending, of the hock joints as they go through the swing of the gait. A horse that looks straight legged throughout the cycle of the gait is not going to be a great dressage mover.

ShannonLee
Oct. 11, 2011, 10:20 PM
ok - just to put a little wrench in the monkey works:

I find if a young horse has a tendency to get quick behind in the canter and become a little lateral when you put the leg on (bouncy bouncy) it is much easier for flying changes and pirouettes as you work up the levels.

So, imo too much airtime (suspension) in a young horse makes collection more difficult. I would go for a young horse with a tendency to get quick behind in the canter. But I think that tendency requires a trainer with a clear and relaxed seat to develop collection without tension.....

KrazyTBMare
Oct. 11, 2011, 11:55 PM
For fun... Layla is an average little TB but the canter is def her best gait. Not a fancy WB but still decent I think

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/14737_1255420512827_1449009522_30711986_4998205_n. jpg

easyrider
Oct. 12, 2011, 12:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/Goerklintgaard?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/1/ZldGOOw2y58

AnaHorseMegaMarket
Oct. 12, 2011, 10:22 AM
When looking at Dressage prospects, look mostly at walk and canter. Trot is easily manipulated later in training, though a free moving gate is a plus. Walk has to be 4 beet, and ground covering.
In a good canter you are looking at how much the horse lifts his wither and comes up, - the jump. Also look for an active behind and a good sitting ability. When a horse uses his back legs underneath himself, it helps him to elevate the forehand and be light in the bridle. Look for the hind leg to step well under the body. Look for an overall picture where a horse is jumping into the stride, light and elevated upfront. Horses with a downhill canter, are more difficult to teach to be light, but everything is possible.
Good luck:)

TemJeito
Oct. 12, 2011, 10:28 AM
I played with the computer snipping tool and got these two pics from the videos of my untrained, project and that lovely auction filly, so you can see the differences.

.... of course, there are a lot of $000 difference in pricetag and training also..:lol:

http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/qq288/cb06_photos/cantercompare/

I think this is an excellent example of two nice canters with reach where one (the auction horse) has more jump. And, yes, not everyone (that includes me) has the money or ability to ride a horse like the auction horse.

katarine
Oct. 12, 2011, 11:12 AM
Can you see this?
https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2438426648700&set=a.2438424808654.2143889.1492791407&type=3&theater

Canter in Training 2. His first time showing this test.

http://youtu.be/D_krLHp3aBA

he's gaited so don't worry about the 'trot' . you could FF to 1:30 or 4:33 to see the canter.

I believe he meets your criteria: we've only been working on the canter for a little while. He's just now showing Training level.

LarkspurCO
Oct. 12, 2011, 11:41 AM
Katarine, I can see the Facebook picture and I'm not logged in.

My big guy. His canter is his best gait:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Tanager/canter-3-1.jpg

My little guy at his RPSI keuring (8.2 for movement):

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Dynamo%20Joe/DynamoJoecantersmall.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i213/hfournier/Dynamo%20Joe/DynamoJoecanter2small.jpg

SnicklefritzG
Oct. 13, 2011, 12:22 AM
^^ I would like to load that little guy into my virtual trailer. :)

LarkspurCO
Oct. 13, 2011, 01:27 AM
Ha ha! You'll have to pry him from my cold, dead, manure-stained fingers. :D

mbm
Oct. 13, 2011, 02:01 AM
i am not sure you can tell much about a canter from a still pic. for me a good canter has a "certain" feeling.... it has a very very clear 3 beat rhythm, it looks like it is going uphill, it looks like is could be compressed very easily. it looks like all 3 joints of the hind leg flex/compress with each stride.

so far out of the non WB horses shown, Surlyn has the best canter. very clear 3 beat gait, could have more uphill tendency and more compression of the hind leg but very nice nonetheless. :)

the canter needs to look like it is will easy to collect and yet very balanced so that changes are easy and uphill.

Tasker
Oct. 13, 2011, 07:46 AM
The saddle fitters will be here in a few minutes but if you search our farm's You Tube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/watermarkfarm), there are about a dozen videos of young horses (4 and under) just loose in the indoor trotting and cantering around with a babysitter who knows the drill. There are also some videos of some youngsters from a breeding operation in Germany. They're from February 2007 if that helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY-Hjv8h1Gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInFvgl4d1E

Of the riding horses that we have currently, Wizard is the one who gets all the attention for his canter. Multiple professionals are after me to 'have' him. Like the other poster - the words 'out of my cold, dead hands' apply! :D Since he was a baby, he's always been able to do a lovely line of 2's, 1's and some pirouettes. The hunter jumper guy who rode him last was all hot and bothered about wasting him as a dressage horse. :rolleyes: Somehow it's not a waste to me! :lol: But typically all the foals by his sire have a canter that is very, very good with plenty of jump - just like his was!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzbbND6Utg

alto
Oct. 13, 2011, 01:36 PM
The saddle fitters will be here in a few minutes but if you search our farm's You Tube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/watermarkfarm)


I read that far & immediately got VERY excited at the prospect of watching the saddle fitting live on video!!!

:o

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Pony Fixer
Oct. 13, 2011, 01:58 PM
So, imo too much airtime (suspension) in a young horse makes collection more difficult. I would go for a young horse with a tendency to get quick behind in the canter. But I think that tendency requires a trainer with a clear and relaxed seat to develop collection without tension.....

This is my horse. He has been given a "9" on his canter many times (the walk, too). It's big, tons of air time, super hind leg. And now we are having a little problem with collection (both walk and canter). He can "sit" all day, but because the arc of his stride is so long, he has trouble getting "quicker" behind. So the gaits can sit, get shorter, but then by definition in his case, get s l o w e r. Not ideal. So, we're now having to train out his natural tendency to have a big hind leg in favor of a quick hind leg and hopefully at some point I will have access to both at my disposal.

Mayflower Farm
Oct. 14, 2011, 02:38 PM
I agree that pictures can be a bit misleading, I have a lovely picture of my project in canter and when I look at I think "since when does he canter like that...?"

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150340226083186&set=a.10150340226068186.365708.789473185&type=1&theater

and a picture of my old FEI horse who did have a nice, if somewhat BIG canter

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150341435538186&set=a.10150341433953186.365920.789473185&type=3&theater

The bay horse definately has more jump - more time in the air. My trainer says to watch the articulation of the entire hindleg, not just the hock, to see how well they step under.

And I agree about the quickness of the hindleg. It's easier if you can get them really snappy behind, although at the lower levels sometimes I think the bigger, smoother movers are placed higher. jmho

Velvet
Oct. 14, 2011, 02:42 PM
You just need to watch more of these auction riders - they are very active with aids.

Riding horses for auction is different than other training. You are riding to show how BIG the gaits are on horses that are not collected. If they were collected, there wouldn't be as much movement through the back so they could sit more quietly. To get the horses moving like that and try to sit that much going though their back? I'd like to see all the COTHERs try and--let alone look better. :lol: