H/J's Relationship with the Public

[Old School]

News flash: it stinks.

Allow me to introduce myself: I am The Public. You've seen me on Jackass. And if you think I am bad, I've got worse news. There's millions of fellow critters like me or worse down here in a patch of Heaven called Texas.

Welcome to the 21st century.

It is idiotic to fight with the outside world. The Public can mess the h/j world up. We don't have to get along with you. We can just make fun of you and ignore you until we finally just outlaw it, courtesy of PETA. The Public can abandon the sport at the bottom and drive prices so high only the few can play (secret fatal wish by some) and once only a few are playing, give it the ol' British Foxhunting Ban treatment. Bub-bye.

If I sound holier-than-thou and self-righteous, it's because I CAN be. As Old School, I am the Public. It's easy to be moral when it doesn't cost you anything: that's why the "conservative" movement is so filled with piety and self-congratulatory morality - 'cause it's cheap.

Sure, I might steal occasionally or gamble or drink too much or leave my kids or cheat on my wife - but notice how the "conservative" leaders never harp on these failings but instead go on about praying in school or the evils of Hollywood or ANYTHING that doesn't personally affect their followers. It's called hypocrisy, and as The Public, I'm FILLED WITH IT.

This sport has a perception problem and has done nothing to recognize this or work to change it. It is surprisingly easy to begin: just be open and nice, even in the face of ignorance. For some of you, I realize, this sounds as appealing as eating glass. But it's easier once you realize it is stupid and selfish to turn others off the sport, because it is damages the animal you profess to love. Less support means less of everything for the horse. The Public doesn't have to be your enemy - but it easily can be.

So, what to do? Go forward or stay stuck on stupid and watch a beautiful part of our history and culture die at the hands of the ignorant masses? If you don't like me, so what? Maybe trying understanding where I'm coming can be a clue to help the whole sport.

[Old School]

News flash: it stinks.

Allow me to introduce myself: I am The Public. You've seen me on Jackass. And if you think I am bad, I've got worse news. There's millions of fellow critters like me or worse down here in a patch of Heaven called Texas.

Welcome to the 21st century.

It is idiotic to fight with the outside world. The Public can mess the h/j world up. We don't have to get along with you. We can just make fun of you and ignore you until we finally just outlaw it, courtesy of PETA. The Public can abandon the sport at the bottom and drive prices so high only the few can play (secret fatal wish by some) and once only a few are playing, give it the ol' British Foxhunting Ban treatment. Bub-bye.

If I sound holier-than-thou and self-righteous, it's because I CAN be. As Old School, I am the Public. It's easy to be moral when it doesn't cost you anything: that's why the "conservative" movement is so filled with piety and self-congratulatory morality - 'cause it's cheap.

Sure, I might steal occasionally or gamble or drink too much or leave my kids or cheat on my wife - but notice how the "conservative" leaders never harp on these failings but instead go on about praying in school or the evils of Hollywood or ANYTHING that doesn't personally affect their followers. It's called hypocrisy, and as The Public, I'm FILLED WITH IT.

This sport has a perception problem and has done nothing to recognize this or work to change it. It is surprisingly easy to begin: just be open and nice, even in the face of ignorance. For some of you, I realize, this sounds as appealing as eating glass. But it's easier once you realize it is stupid and selfish to turn others off the sport, because it is damages the animal you profess to love. Less support means less of everything for the horse. The Public doesn't have to be your enemy - but it easily can be.

So, what to do? Go forward or stay stuck on stupid and watch a beautiful part of our history and culture die at the hands of the ignorant masses? If you don't like me, so what? Maybe trying understanding where I'm coming can be a clue to help the whole sport.

[MistyBlue]

Wow...what happened? Wake up with Ralph Nader?

(sooo totally kidding! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif )

The public has never been a supporter of equine sports unless it's polo, rodeo or horse racing. Most don't even know there ARE any other wquine sports...especially considering every John Q Public I meet who finds out I have horses asks me where I race them. Or do I have those bucking kind? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
The general public that *does* know about CT, dressage, hunter or jumper, etc...automatically assumes I'm driving a Jag, I'm always spotlessly clean and wearing full show attire and my barn looks like a Ralph Lauren magazine ad. They assume I've got money up the wazoo. But it's two fold...I assume they're idiots. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (again with the kidding!) These are the same folk who assume a good friend of mine who happens to be a well known local dairy farmer is a piss-poor redneck meant to be avoided at all costs since he drives a junker pick up and wears a cowboy hat and smells like...well, a cow. Hysterical part is...he's got more money than quite a few Forunte 100 top officers I know.
The general public adores to wallow in ignorance. They'd rather stare at a TV all day long and base their entire life's opnions and decisions on what they see there or in a magazine. They're lazy and refuse to learn through experience. Am I worried about what they think? Not overly...by the time they actually get their lazy arses off their couches and computer chairs and actually DO something...well, heck...horses will be mechanical. Basic society hasn't changed in a few centuries...the only changes we're seeing is the vast toxic filth spewed out by various media hypes is hitting a much broader range of people. A few short decades ago not everyone had a TV...and very few who had them had time to stare at the idiot box all day. They were out doing things. We see and absorb so much and most never ever question the validity of what the media says. The internet and BB's like this are a good example of a small microcosm of the general public. Here, of course, it's a horsie public...but look at the monkey sh*t fights that happen here on a regular basis. Mostly due to someone having read something somehwere on some site...liked the way it was written and then never questioning if it was actually a 12 year old bored kid who gleaned info from dozens of other sites and pasted it together however the heck they pleased. People are willing to rant and rave about anything found on the internet...just like on TV and what we here coming from politicians. Politics is the art form of saying what you think the public wants to hear in order to gain yourself more power. If anyone thinks most of today's politicians are really wanting to make a difference and THAT'S why they're running....think again. Any party..it's a power trip.
Technically...in politics I am a conservative. And we're a pretty misunderstood bunch. No, we're not all rich. No, we're not looking to run the world our way. No, we're not looking to impose our life decisions on others. It's more of an accountability thing...you need to be held responsible for what you do and are. Simple...but most people shrink from that. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
My least worry at this time is what John Q "I've got an education but refuse to use it" Public thinks of my chosen lifestyle with horses. I know very little about underwater welding...but you don't see me running around worrying about what the welder's might be doing.

[Old School]

Misty Blue, we agree on quite a lot. One thing though, saying "The public has never been a supporter of equine sports unless it's polo, rodeo or horse racing..." is true because h/j hasn't done the public relations work to be understood. The sport let's a few nasty types piss off people and is stuck with a bad name. Honest dialog could change it.

There seems to be a pretty consistent theme here of not caring what the public thinks. I hope this is only defensive and due to the current state of public opinion, because what the public thinks DOES very much matter in the long run. And if you are conservative, you understand the responsibility we have to think in the long run.

The difference between welding and horseback riding is that you get paid to weld and it is integral in society. Riding used to be like that, before automobiles, and that is probably where the lack of concern for public image came from. Riding is now in the entertainment and recreation business, begging for bucks in a competitive market. That's different.

[Linny]

<<<<<<<Ahem>>>>>>>>>>>

If certain folks, and you know who you are, would cease and desist with the class warfare, us horsey folks might have a chance in the mainstream.
By creating a "haves vs the have nots" argument, often associating certain traits with haves (horses, cartain brand names etc) you make The Public assume that the girl with the horse is "rich" and the guy in the Mercedes is "loaded." Why would Mr and Mrs NASCAR decide to go to a horse show? Why do they want to watch rich snobs (who must look down on such commoners) partke of an elitist sport. The fact is that the folks who own race cars (as well as the drivers and organizers or races) are just as rich, if not more so than the horse crowd. But the millionaire in the race car somehow gives the impression of being "everyman trailer trash" and all of North Carolina cheers him on!
The horsey community needs to reach out to their localities and encourage attendance. Not just at big events like Devon or the Hampton Classic but smaller shows. There used to be lots of charity shows around here. They were nice "C" type shows with alot of spectators.
When people hear that I ride, some assume that I must have money (I don't) and some are just curious about it. Most of the people I know through the barn are "comfortable" but not RICH. They work hard for their money and are nice decent people.

<<<<Linny dismounts the soapbox>>>>>

[lauriep]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
The sport let's a few nasty types piss off people and is stuck with a bad name. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, really? Please elaborate! I was unaware that our internal machinations had gone "public."

[Old School]

Lauriep, let's just say you come across one of the gossipy, elitist snob-types that seem to be drawn to the sport. This horsie person say something snippy to you out of general exclusionary meanness, and then you get a bad impression about others in the sport.

Repeat endlessly, and the Public gets a bad impression. The Public isn't fair, or good, it just IS. And since riding is not a needed occupation but a recreational past time, the whole activity suffers from the bad impression.



LINNY - Great Soapbox Speech. The millionaire NASCAR driver is marketed as Everyday Trash (that is very in right now) and working class riders have, one and all, the image of aristocratic wealth. It's crazy. But, the Public is crazy. That's why they are so dangerous.

If equestrian sport is to survive, it must figure out how to make people see the truth: that horses are great teachers for children, horse spectator events can be fun, clean family outings, the sport is brave and tough and honors our heritage.

[Bea]

Ditto what Linny said. As it seems her 'class warfare' aspect is for me also the only thing I seem to be able to grasp onto in the threads with certain poster participation. Old School, I can see you want to start a conversation. And one would think you're in the right place to do that, I notice the membership on COTH is up to over 14,000. That's a lot of people looking for conversation.

But to be honest, Old School, I can't really get what it is you want to discuss. 'Something' about the public perception of equine sports, 'something' about a few nasty people ruining the sport for every one else, 'something' about the demise of the sport, 'something' about 'something' we all have to do 'something' about. And above all it really upsets you that we aren't doing that 'something'. I feel a great deal of passion in your posts. And that's 'something' COTHers more so than most people should get and understand.

But the 'something' you feel so passionate about and the 'something' you feel we should do about it, is just not clear to me.

[Old School]

'Something' needs to be done, but I can't dictate that. I can try to get the conversation going and offer my point of view as an outsider member of the Public, but I don't have an answer or product to sell. The 'something' is what gets decided by the community.

I have a lot of passion, but it is generalized, nostalgic passion for something I used to love very much. The Super League interests me, so I'm getting involved. My value is that if the sport can interest and satisfy me, which is not impossible, it is on the way to interesting and satisfying a much broader base of support.

[leelee]

This is such an interesting topic! In regards to the comment about the public attending equestrian events such as racing, the rodeo, and polo; could the reason behind the lack of the public's participation be due to a lack of excitement? The way I see it (and please, share your imput)is that these are the events that the public is most drawn to. For example, those of us who enjoy gambling will pay more attention to horse racing than to the hunter world. Those who are looking for some excitment will turn to rode (i don't see this as exciting, but whatever floats your boat), and last there is polo for those who are looking for a social gathering. Please don't think that I am trying to ignore the fact that many people watch and participate in these events because they simply love it. As for the hunter world, I feel it would be harder for the public to become involved. For those who are not aware of what they should be looking for in the winning hunter, watching a class could become rather boring. In racing, there is a clear winner. In rodeo it is easy to tell which rider is leading. Polo has something so special to the public that the others don't posess- two teams going against each other, and a BALL! This makes it easier for the public to follow. Hunters, on the other hand, are pinned based more on opinion. Perhaps this is why it is so hard for the hunter world to break through to get public recognition. The question now becomes if we want the public's interest, how do we change our sport in order to do so? Just a couple thoughts. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Midge]

I have never really understood the drive to educate the great unwashed about our sport. It is not spectator driven, it is competitor driven. It always has been. It will never be exciting enough to be spectator driven, compared to other sports Americans seem to want to watch on their televisions.

Nationwide, there are more horse owners and more competition dates than ever. I am not sure what the worry is.

I guess since I participate in another sport even more misunderstood by the great unwashed, I really don't understand what people worried about the public's impression of equestrian sports want or why.

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Polo has something so special to the public that the others don't posses- two teams going against each other, and a BALL! This makes it easier for the public to follow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When did polo become one of America's big equestrian spectator sports? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Rarely do matches - even the big cup ones - bring in a thousand or more folks. Why? Because outdoor polo on a regulation field is hard to watch with the action so far away. Plus it isn't the fast paced game it once was. A lot of stop play with rules and violation of those rules. The wicked field stroke of old with Tommy Hitchcock or Pete Bostwick and seen in the classic Paul Brown pen and ink images isn't here today.

As much as die-hard fans might like to say otherwise, polo simply is not an overly friendly spectator sport - it is however a very social sport in terms of life on the sidelines and under the sponsors tents ... far away from the horses.

Now if you want to talk big crowds then look to the largest spectator sports: steeplechasing and point to points. That is easy to follow, fast paced, thrilling and exceptionally social. Non horse people love it as well.

That's why you get 40,000 people - many, many from Washington, DC - to come to Great Meadows for the Gold Cup in The Plains, VA.

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
'Something' needs to be done, but I can't dictate that. I can try to get the conversation going and offer my point of view as an outsider member of the Public <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, you're not an outside member of the Public. Your very membership on this board proves that you aren't.

And Nascar is appealing to people for a variety of reasons, one being that it is accessible. Nearly everyone knows how to drive and can appreciate what it takes to race a car. You can't say the same about riding. Most people don't ever learn to ride, nor do they want to. Even those that do learn are rarely interested in the disciplines outside their own.

[Ketch]

Why does it matter what everyone thinks of us? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Do you really spend your life caring that much about what other people think?

I go to horse shows to ride and compete, not to please the public.

And your spectator sport argument doesn't hold a lot of weight, either. For one thing, I've never known this sport to be especially spectator-driven or -friendly. For another, I don't think a positive perception and a plethora of spectators necessarily go hand in hand. For example, I attend football games occasionally even though I deplore the sport. I don't need to understand it, or appreciate it, to have a good time; I go because of the prospect of having a good time, outside of understanding the nuances of the sport (namely, beer, prizes, bands, and ragging on the cheerleaders' outfits http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

I think equestrian sports are similar; locals at places like WEF attend the Grand Prixs there not because they know a swedish oxer form a liverpool, or even WANT to know, but because of the excitement and thrill of just watching a fun event.

I don't think "perception" has anything to do with it.

I also have to ask, OS: if you've been out of this sport for, by your own admission, 10 years or so, why do you care?

[Ketch]

And there ya go, RugBug, trying to prove we were separated at birth again. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(I think we posted at the exact same time).

[eclipse]

You might want to come upto Calgary where horse sports are regarded very highly. Does the Calgary Stampede & Spruce Meadows ring any bells!! Ask anyone here what they think of show jumping & most would be able to give you a respectable answer!

Doesn't it drag you down to be so full of hate & depressing feelings?

[Ketch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Doesn't it drag you down to be so full of hate & depressing feelings?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOLOL!


Didn't realize I was! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Erin]

Uh, I don't really think the general public HAS a perception of horse sports. How many of us have been asked by friends if we won our "race" when we come back from a show?

If there IS a perception, it's probably along the lines of that commericial that shows an equitation round with two overenthusiastic commentators gushing about Ainsley Wellingworth and her steed Mr. Fancypants or something... the one that ends with the line "just because it's a sport doesn't mean it's exciting." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif No idea what the ad was actually FOR, but...

The general public doesn't have a clue about the scandals, drug problems, whatever.

If the sport has a public perception problem, it's simply that the public thinks it's boring and not a sport.

[lauriep]

Horse sports (our brand, anyhow) have NEVER been popular spectator sports, but not because of any scandals or poor treatment of "the public" by "the insiders." Rugbug and Ketch are precisely on target; it just isn't interesting to the vast majority. So, why do you insist on approaching it from an us v them strategy? Why? Because there would be no one to fight with then. If you were only looking at ways to draw the public in, where would the fun be in that?

Show jumping is the only segment of h/j that has a prayer of getting a lot of airtime and popularity. And, until it is marketed properly, which seems to be the Holy Grail, even it won't draw the fans. So, since you are SOOOO concerned, why not come up with a superior marketing plan which will get it on TV every Sunday afternoon, bumping NFL football?

[MistyBlue]

LOl...I just thought of something that might bring the general public into more horse shows...something that NASCAR, Racing, Rodeo and Polo all have that the rest of the equine sport usually doesn't. ALCOHOL! Ever see a line at the beer stand at a horse show? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Apparently sports are easier to watch while inebriated. Heaven knows I'd probably ride bettr if sloshed. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Wives aren't usually going to go to an all day sports even by themselves...and husband's will go in droves if you have cheap beer.

Okay...kidding aside...
I doubt (and this in no way is a slam to the discipline) that anyone not into horses would ever get into watching hunter classes as a sport. I used to ride and can't watch it without falling asleep. It's boring to those who don't do it...it involves too much nuance and finesse for the general public to pick up on.
Also, horse shows are NOT public friendly places. There's nothing other than horses showing and horse vendor booths going on. There's nothing there to attract non-horsie people. They don't understand the classes and why some win and some don't. They're more apt to pick the prettu colored horse as a favorite and root for that one. IMO...if classes were announced during the class like the commentators we hear on TV it would help the public...but then I don't want to go into a jumper class and hear the announcer saying "And watch as this rider yet again goes off course...oops there she goes!" And I'm pretty sure hunter riders don't want to hear "Number 347 has her horse moving nicely in the hack class as you can tell by blah, blah, blah...completely different from rider #458 who is on the wrong lead right now and hr horse is wrining it's tail." Having pony rides there for the mom's to take the kids in would be nice for public attraction. Having more TV commercials about upcoming horse shows would help. Having less jumps sponsored by Rolex, Mercedes, etc on courses would help with the elitist perception. Maybe a WD40 liverpool? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Having things like breed demos on show grounds..or costume classes, or something more eyecatching to the public would help. The big showgrounds are the ones with more things to do and see...but they also have a "Don't touch and don't talk to the BNT" mentality. They also have grown men wearing ascots and women wearing big hats sitting under umbrellas sipping wine while watching the classes. That's enough to turn me off...and I ride.
The barn where I grew up had two schooling shows annually. A spring and fall show. Everyone in town and two towns over showed up...our 60 acre field was mobbed with trailers, the school next door mobbed with cars. We had two rings going at all times...a western and an english ring. Games and jumping after noon. There were also pony rides, hay rides, face painting, picnic areas, actual food stands (not a trailer with greasy burgers for $20 a piece) and all sorts of things for spectators to do. It was more of a horse/farm fair. So it was treated as a fair to townfolk...the barn owner made a small fortune at each show. And they were one day shows on Saturdays....his lesson business took off like crazy after each show weekend. Parents could sign their kids up at shows with discounts and the kids of course WANTED those lessons, pony rides or whatever from being at the show. The announcers were public friendly and explained classes before they started...the BO had some of us hand out sheet pads to the public so they could "play judge" and mark their own winners. Those were HUGE money makers and made horse people out of tons of town kids. And even some BNR's showed up for them...because they were fun. And if your greenie could show there with those crowds...no other place was going to scare them. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Make shows fun and user friendly. Not rateds...but sponsor a schooling/getting to know you show every year at least once. Send ouot fliers, take out newspaper ads...make the venue FUN. A friend of mine just opened a small boarding/lesson place two years ago in the center of some bigger better barns doing the same. He's mobbed 3 seasons of the year. Why? He hosts Halloween night at his barn and spends a fortune of flyers and newspaper ads. Every parent for miles around comes for the once annnual hay rides, costume contest, pony rides, costume parade, etc. That one night a year garners 75% of his lesson business. Halloween night you practically need a traffic cop to get near the place.
Make people want to come...and the give them a reason to enjoy themselves and come back. They'll probably never get into going to the big rated shows that are more "formal" but they'll get an appreciation and enjoyment out of the sport.

[Old School]

Glimmerglass, I agree with you about polo. It isn't really spectator-friendly, though it is a nice backdrop an afternoon. Steeplechasing IS a great spectator event, though, but somehow it's never spread very far west.

I think that people want equestrian sport to be more popular with the unwashed masses because it will secure its future. It also has an economic upside.

I don't think hunters can be a major spectator attraction, but I do think show jumping can. And it is not true to say that the public has never supported show jumping. In fact, of all the equestrian sports, show jumping was the only one designed to be a spectator sport.

Show jumping is a easy to follow and understand, it is (ideally) humane, colorful, and (potentially) fast-paced. It is a parade of stars on some of the most personality-filled horses, and it has the ability to capture an audience if explained well. The audience for Seabiscuit is the potential audience for well-produced show jumping.

The problem is with the promotion. There are rules for the spectator that were established by the modern founder of the sport, Mike Ansell. These rules say to keep events very short, ideally no more than 25 rides. Jumping is a spectacle, and less is more. The sport needs good announcers who can inform and entertain an uninitiated audience. It is primarily a youth sport, so it has to have at least the perception of trying to be 'clean.' It needs better outreach, better formats, better communication with the public, and the crowds will return.

someone asked: "I also have to ask, OS: if you've been out of this sport for, by your own admission, 10 years or so, why do you care?"

Just passion for it. People never ask that of football players. It IS a sport, you know.

[eclipse]

Not you Ketch!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Rye]

"why not come up with a superior marketing fan which will get it on TV every Sunday afternoon, bumping NFL football? "


PUUUULLLLEEEEZZZZZ....Compare the tushies of the football players (aside from the big giants in the middle of the line who sole purpose is to squish people) with the vast majority of tushies you see at our shows...there is simply not enough control-top fabric out there for us to compete with the NFL...oh I forgot to add that our sport has a shocking shortage of scantily-clad cheerleaders too...alas we are doomed!

[jumper11]

OS your point is totally over-shadowed by your repetitious comments on "The Public" and the "Evils of The Public" and deal with it(my completely off-base comments) because I am a member of "The Public"...

What are you talking about? I believe that even horse people are *suprise* members of the public... I agree it would make horse shows more exciting if there were more spectators, etc. but why are you referring to the public as being ignorant? Because they don't understand equestrian sports? OK, that makes a lot of sense. MOst equestrian sports are BORING to people who don't understand it, unless people are crashing... If something can not sustain the interest of general public, than sorry it's not going to be mainstream. I wish it was different, but yeah it's not going to happen. That fact does not make the public ignorant though... get over it.

[Erin]

Um, there have been lots of topics here about getting more public interest in various equestrian sports. (The TV coverage at the Olympics, for example.)

Increasing viewership of the sport is entirely different from changing a NEGATIVE perception of the sport, which is what you seem to be saying exists in your first post, and attributing it to the nasty people within the horse world being unfriendly to outsiders.

There's been lots of discussion here about "packaging" show jumping events for the public, having good announcers, getting television coverage, etc. This is not anything new. If you wander over to the eventing forum, there's a link to a Between Rounds column by Denny Emerson in the COTH about the changing of the CCI format for the Olympics, and whether or not being in the Olympics (and having that every-four-years worldwide exposure) is worth the cost.

Lots of people have lots of thoughts about the public perception of horse sports, and how to increase interest. But I've never seen anyone attribute the widespread LACK of interest in horse sports on the part of the general public to the fact that horse people are nasty to outsiders.

[nycjumper]

Wandering over from the other thread & putting my two cents in-

The public doesn't like our sport b/c its boring to them & they don't understand it. Hell, half of us don't understand it & we're in it. How many "what was the judge thinking" threads are posted on this board!

Most of the public isn't exposed to horses ever. But 99% of the public has played football or basketball or baseball or driven a car (NASCAR) at some point in their lives. They understand the sport which makes it easier to watch/follow.

And really - who cares if the general public is a big follower of equestrian sports?

[Old School]

"But I've never seen anyone attribute the widespread LACK of interest in horse sports on the part of the general public to the fact that horse people are nasty to outsiders."

So I'm telling you. People who get talked to nastily don't usually stick around to tell you, and they didn't. But now you've been told.

"And really - who cares if the general public is a big follower of equestrian sports?"

Because they will eventually kill it. If you think this is impossible, follow British foxhunting. It has no logic, but it's happening.

[nycjumper]

So Old School - you're now speaking for the general public? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Cindeye]

*desperately dragging both hands back off the keyboard*

[Ketch]

So now we're all nasty to the general public? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

How did you know I had trained my horse to bite anyone who was not sporting TS's and poufy HP hair? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[eclipse]

Martini's anyone!!!

[ser42]

But how does the public know horse people are nasty unless they are attending the shows? Seems to be that not many people in the general public go to shows, so where is the opportunity for horse people to be nasty to enough people to make this a common sentiment amongst the public?

[Kirsten]

ScreeeeEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Here comes the train! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[411]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
"But I've never seen anyone attribute the widespread LACK of interest in horse sports on the part of the general public to the fact that horse people are nasty to outsiders."

So I'm telling you. People who get talked to nastily don't usually stick around to tell you, and they didn't. But now you've been told. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's absurd. Go to any NFL game and you will see some hideous behavior on the part of other spectators. You might even get puked on by a drunk. Will that stop a person who likes football from attending a game? Of course not.

Erin nailed it in one of her previous posts. The general public thinks equestrian sports are boring and not sports. The only reason racing attracts an audience is because of the betting. Look around at the people at the track. They aren't there because they love horses. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[nycjumper]

Ketch - do you have that training manual to share? B/C clearly I have been derelict in my duties as an evil person.

I had no idea when I invited people to my shows or stopped to chat with them while riding in Central Park or took my nieces & nephews for pony rides that I was violating the "evil HJP" code of behavior.

Good thing the "general public" told OS what bitches we all are & he could let us know. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Ketch]

Look, nyc, the key is to be nasty even when you aren't involved in horse activities. SInce clearly people are not attending shows, we are obviously being nasty to them out randomly in public. My favorite trick is to stop at Wendy's on the way to horse shows and grease the doorknob of the bathroom, so that the general public will look like a moron when they try to open the bathroom door. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Bea]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:So I'm telling you. People who get talked to nastily don't usually stick around to tell you, and they didn't. But now you've been told. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, I'll bite. Old School, might this cause someone to leave a sport years ago that they love passionately? And would this cause someone to feel bitter and disenfranchised and make them want to vent about that same sport on a BB?

edited because I'm another one who can't spell.

[jumper11]

Ha, I spilled beer all over an uppity old couple at a USC football game recently (by accident), and while they were screaming at me about how this happens to them every year all I could do was laugh... Would that ever in a million years happen at a horse show? Hell no. But yet this 70+ year old couple drag themselves up the stadium steps to watch football and get beer spilled on them every year. That's true dedication for ya people.

Oh yeah I made sure to tell them, that I was a horse person, and dammit we're all bitches... spread the word.

[ser42]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ketch:
Look, nyc, the key is to be nasty even when you aren't involved in horse activities. SInce clearly people are not attending shows, we are obviously being nasty to them out randomly in public. My favorite trick is to stop at Wendy's on the way to horse shows and grease the doorknob of the bathroom, so that the general public will look like a moron when they try to open the bathroom door. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[nycjumper]

Well, there was that time that I used my crop on a herd of tourists in Rockefeller Center. I was late for my lesson & they were blocking the subway stairs. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That might have been the reason that every non-horsey person in America hates us.

I'm sorry to all of you for ruining the reputation of equestrian sports forever http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Ketch]

Good one, nyc! I'll have to try that next! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[411]

Jumper11 you get bonus points for spilling beer on the elderly! I hope you were wearing your riding breeches at the time! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Old School]

Yup. Should I change my alias to "The Public" to make it more clear?

What needs to happen is that either people that understand what I'm talking about begin to show up in greater numbers, or the insulting comments need to stop. I am here to bring change, not to find a show name for my horse.

I want to do it nicely, finding allies (not necessarily friends) and working for change. But I could bomb this BB out of existence and use that for illustration, too. Works for me.

If you think I'm going away because you're mean, you really don't understand. If I go away, so are you. Has anyone heard of a flame war? My opinions are very benign compared to what's out there. Let's keep it family and much nicer than it's been. Or there won't be anything.

This community was altered when moderators kicked off a disabled person after one of its happy bashes. That was a mistake. Like McLain, you don't think the public is owed an explanation. Fine. Keep egging me on.

[Erin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:

So I'm telling you. People who get talked to nastily don't usually stick around to tell you, and they didn't. But now you've been told. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know YOU THINK that people have a bad perception of the sport because horse people have been nasty to them. But just because you think it does not make it so. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Your reasoning for this is what, exactly? And what evidence do you have that this is really the case on a widespread basis?

I will certainly agree that horse people can be nasty to EACH OTHER. Hell, I don't have a very high opinion of a good portion of the h/j world. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif But, I am NOT the public, and what I know of the H/J world comes from my experiences INSIDE the horse world.

Although there are plenty of people on this BB who I think are completely incapable of having a rational conversation with other horse people ON THE BB, I am sure that when they are at the grocery store in their breeches and paddock boots and get asked if they have a horse, as we all do, they don't launch into a diatribe about the USEF or drug scandals or McLain Ward. They probably patiently say that, yes, they have a horse, and go on to patiently answer the questions that always ensue.

Despite all of our petty differences WITHIN the horse world, I don't doubt that we all love our horses and probably don't mind telling the clueless general public about it.

[Ketch]

I'll rephrase: Why is the public "owed" anything?

[caffeinated]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
This community was altered when moderators kicked off a disabled person after one of its happy bashes. That was a mistake. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why, because they were disabled?

I learned recently that an asshat in a wheelchair is still an asshat.

[Midge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
Because they will eventually kill it. If you think this is impossible, follow British foxhunting. It has no logic, but it's happening. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you Kidding????? Foxhunting got the whack basically because they were killing foxes and running over private land and holding up traffic on the roads.

Eclipse, I have pulled up my chair, poured a margarita and have a plate of mini quiches warming in the oven!

[Erin]

Old School, Cellos Pride was banned from the BB because she REFUSED to talk about horses. She was warned several times and didn't listen, and she was disruptive to the community, so she was told she was no longer welcome here. And that was after I intervened on her behalf NUMEROUS times and tried to get people to play nice.

Now, if that's really the axe you want to grind, then you can take that up with me off the BB. But personally, I would assert that the BB is much calmer without CP here to start fights that have nothing to do with horses.

[Ketch]

Midge, I'm coming over, so make enough for me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[jumper11]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 411:
Jumper11 you get bonus points for spilling beer on the elderly! I hope you were wearing your riding breeches at the time! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No but I did have my helmet on for protection from the drunkards behind me...

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
Because they will eventually kill it. If you think this is impossible, follow British foxhunting. It has no logic, but it's happening. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Foxhunting in England is in the process of being banned because they have a nutty, er, I mean, strong socialist element to their political spectrum and foxhunting is a chip in the class warfare game. We don't have class warfare here - at least not that looks like England's, anyway, and foxhunting hardly registers on your average American's radar. Nor do we have the same political environment that would encourage such a debate - our system is just different. Plus, foxhunting has NEVER been marketed as a spectator sport. I doubt that encourageing more people to come out and watch the local hunt go out is a good idea - first, it's not logistically feesible; second, I doubt it will do much to save the sport; third, it's BORING. Most horse sports are BORING. Even I get glazed eyes watching the Olympics.

It's doubtful, but your arguments MIGHT be persuasive, or at least interesting, if you knew even a teeny tiny bit about what you are talking about. So far it's not real promising.

[Cindeye]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
This community was altered when moderators kicked off a disabled person after one of its happy bashes. That was a mistake. Like McLain, you don't think the public is owed an explanation. Fine. Keep egging me on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*resisting temptation to reach through the screen to grab OS by the throat*

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY! HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD? YOU WERE NOT HERE AND YOU DID NOT READ THE POSTS WHEN THEY HAPPENED. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE JUDGING PEOPLE BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM SOMEONE ELSE WITHOUT SEEING/HEARING IT FOR YOURSELF! The "disabled person" was kicked off the boards for constantly hijacking other posters' threads to further her own agenda.

I apologize to the moderators and other posters on the board for the rant. I just couldn't keep my hands off the keyboard anymore!

[Glimmerglass]

Speaking strictly on the topic of television programming here ....

I really don't get anyone's argument that professional show jumping (at its core) is not open to having fans or is too complex for Johnny Six-pack on tv. You have a set number and arrangement of fences & obstacles and a designated time. Exceed the time and you get a penalty, miss a fence or drop a rail (of the fence) you get a penalty. Fastest and clean-est run wins.

That is actually far more basic then baseball, basketball or football with rules.

If a viewer has difficulty in grasping that, then I say stop eating the lead paint chips and stick with watching reruns of Cops on SpikeTV.

Honestly the more I examine the lack of tv interest it goes back to the presentation of the finished product. It is shown in an hour long package with soft "light favorites" type of music with a far to too soft type of presentation. The soft voices of the announcers, the graceful scenes of the mellow countryside, the kids playing in the backgroup like they are out of a fake Kids Gap ad. Ugh!

If anyone wants to try and garner a bigger viewing audience I'd say call in Hollywood producer Jerry Bruckheimer and ask him how he would present the sport on tv. Seriously. Does it require more pulse pounding music? Is the formula needing to make the jumps more edgy looking? Clearly on tv, better camera work and eliminating the feeling that John Tesch produced it will get more viewers.

Think I'm wrong? Watch PBR on OLN - with the jam packed audience at the Thomas & Mack Center. People are pumped up and there is a real feeling of suspense and electricity. A 1,100 lb horse cantering over five-foot fences sure as heck has the ability to do the same. The sport just needs to look outside of the industry and work with professionals when it comes to presentation. This is ENTERTAINMENT - don't forget it. If you make the sport to be cod-liver oil ("its good for you") and demand that people respect it, they won't.

I lament the fact that Saddletude.com failed as they had tried to push the envelope with music and attitude. This add by them was priceless: Saddletude advertisement - balls (http://www.saddletude.com/mediakit/images/ballsbig.jpg)

[b328]

Most of the non-horsey "public" that I know don't watch this sport because they think it is B-O-R-I-N-G, not because they think people who own/ ride/ show horses are snobby. They're just bored to death watching people go around and around the same course over and over. Why the conspiracy theories? I think my husband's quote from this weekend was a perfect example: I would rather scoop my eyes out with spoons than go watch the New England Equitation Finals instead of football and baseball.

FYI, I recall that former poster that was kicked off that you keep bringing up. As I recall, that person kept focusing on things that were non-horse related, and that is why the person was kicked off.

I don't think the people here are a bunch of meanies, as you keep saying. We are all part of the "public" too, and I don't think that horse sports are in such a poor state PR wise. Shows are bigger now than they were when I was showing 10-15 years ago, and there seem to be more of them in my area. I don't see the need for doom and gloom about the future of horse sports.

[lauriep]

"Because they will eventually kill it. If you think this is impossible, follow British foxhunting. It has no logic, but it's happening."

It has plenty of logic to those that are behind its killing, PETA and ALF and the like. Foxhunting's demise in England is due to the perception of ANIMAL CRUELTY, not nastiness of foxhunters to the public.

The rest of you guys are cracking me up. Which means you are not being remotely nasty enough. OS thinks I am head bitch on the BB, so maybe I should draw up some nastiness guidelines for you all to follow...

Guess I had better resign my position on the USHJA committee, too, because I am certainly too nasty to promote our sport to the public! Geesh!

[Erin]

Glimmer, don't forget that <span class="ev_code_RED">NBC</span> (ooh, I have never used the color feature before) actually showed an hour or so of Rolex coverage this spring, and did a damn fine job of it.

Hell, if people are willing to watch poker, I'm sure people will watch horse sports if they're packaged correctly. At least show jumping and eventing. I'm not sure there's much hope for hunters or dressage. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
You've seen me on Jackass. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I'm sure we have.

How was that, LaurieP???

And I disagree with you about the cause behind the demise of foxhunting in England, but that's another topic. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[adhock]

I agree with Lauriep and suggest that someone resurrects Linda Allen's proposal from a few years back. If memory serves correctly, she suggested that, if the goal was to build an audience, separate the higher level jumping events (not schooling classes) from the rest and run them as a "challenge," "competition," or a separate event: Just don't call it a horse show, which has a very passive connotation to Mr/Ms Public! I also agree that the lack of orchestrated p.r. (probably through a coalition of big name sponsors) has been a huge problem in any effort to build lasting awarenesss. As long as publicity is handled on a one-off basis, it will remain local and tied solely to venues.

[Ketch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Old School:
You've seen me on Jackass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm sure we have. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

&lt;snort&gt;

:wiping Frappuccino off my screen now:

[eclipse]

You all must move upto Canada, for instance last Saturday they had POLO on tv for the 3rd time in 1 week (yep, a sport channel no less) & then on Sunday morning 2 hours of the Aachen Grand Prix (once again the same sports channel).Oh yeah, we also get Spruce Meadows tv show during the season, & a weekly show about all types of horse issues,people & sports. Plus,CBC shows all the big Spruce shows..thank goodness for Canadian tv!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
Glimmer, don't forget that <span class="ev_code_RED">NBC</span> (ooh, I have never used the color feature before) actually showed an hour or so of Rolex coverage this spring, and did a damn fine job of it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep - and it was far better packaged by NBC in post-production then I've seen on OLN. NBC Sports who has always produced the Breeders' Cup and have done an excellent job for the Olympics and Triple Crown run knows a thing or two about horses on tv http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eclipse:
You all must move upto Canada, for instance last Saturday they had POLO on tv for the 3rd time in 1 week (yep, a sport channel no less) & then on Sunday morning 2 hours of the Aachen Grand Prix (once again the same sports channel).Oh yeah, we also get Spruce Meadows tv show during the season, & a weekly show about all types of horse issues,people & sports. Plus,CBC shows all the big Spruce shows..thank goodness for Canadian tv!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's amazing what a hockey strike will do to you guys! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[MAD]

How does one go about seceding from "The Public"? If Old School is speaking for it, I don't want anything to do with it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[lauriep]

Touche!

[caffeinated]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
How does one go about seceding from "The Public"? If Old School is speaking for it, I don't want anything to do with it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess we could call ourselves the "re-public" which could be something entirely different.

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "The public has never been a supporter of equine sports unless it's polo, rodeo or horse racing..." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the public just could care less. Hunter Jumpers rank in people minds somewhere far behind pro-bowling and ahead of curling (in the US). It is boring. So are a lot of sports. Get over it.

[Diva98]

You guys are great! I have been lurking on this thread and a few others and I am glad to see we can all (well, most of us) keep our sense of humor in the face of other poster's agendas.

To be on topic, I don't think the public has a negative perception of the hunter/jumper world - they don't have any perception of the hunter/jumper world. Believe it or not, I am part of the public too and I can't name the number of times my friends and co-workers ask me if I am "racing" my horse this weekend. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif But do they need to be informed? I think this sport is for the competitors - not the spectators, and judging by the fact that there is an overstuffed horse show almost every weekend around here, I would say the industry is okay.

As for being nasty - there are nasty people out there, but some of the nicest and most generous people I know are horse people. So unless OS has some evidence to back up this "nastiness" factor, I just don't buy it. The only nastiness I have seen has been on this BB and it is usually started by OS.

Can I have a margarita too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[xegeba]

Cindeye... I think it is a bit of a stretch to assume that OS wasn't around for those threads. Like CP, OS has an uncanny knack for getting everyone in an uproar and manages to bring up the CP debacle in almost every thread it starts. Hmmmm...

[RugBug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
What needs to happen is that either people that understand what I'm talking about begin to show up in greater numbers, or the insulting comments need to stop.

&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;

I want to do it nicely, finding allies (not necessarily friends) and working for change. But I could bomb this BB out of existence and use that for illustration, too. Works for me.

Let's keep it family and much nicer than it's been. Or there won't be anything.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So now you're threatening, what? a law suit and the destruction of the BB? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Telling people you want allies and inspiring people to agree with you based on your beliefs and arguments are two different things.

Somehow I feel baited everytime you post. Are you trying to get banned to add fuel to someone else's lawsuit?

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I want to do it nicely, finding allies (not necessarily friends) and working for change.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Good, go make Change. Me, I'm going riding.</span>

But I could bomb this BB out of existence and use that for illustration, too. Works for me.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Huh? Are you a member of Al G Bra? What would that point be?</span>

If you think I'm going away because you're mean, you really don't understand. If I go away, so are you. Has anyone heard of a flame war?
<span class="ev_code_RED">Sounds Hot. You started the mean thing.</span>

My opinions are very benign compared to what's out there. Let's keep it family and much nicer than it's been. Or there won't be anything.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Huh? I don't get this. If we aren't nice to you will close the BB? Are you a hacker?</span>

This community was altered when moderators kicked off a disabled person after one of its happy bashes. That was a mistake. Like McLain, you don't think the public is owed an explanation. Fine. Keep egging me on.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Hey, disabled people can still break the set BB rules and be kicked off.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Portia]

Old School, the "disabled person" was barred from posting on this BB because she repeatedly broke the rules and ignored multiple warnings about it, repeatedly incited disputes over her unwillingness to follow the rules, and repeatedly threatened other posters, the moderators, and the magazine with lawsuits when she was not allowed to pursue her non-horse related socio-political agenda. It had nothing to do with her alleged disability. There really is no reason for you to repeatedly bring it up; doing so proves nothing except your lack of knowledge of the facts.

[Whitewater]

i just have to wiegh in... Old school, it seems to me that you are pushing a rope... if you want change, you need to LEAD!!! start pulling/dragging the rope; You can't just toss comments into the wind and expect that they catch on.. you are either part of the problem or part of the solution!

I can't believe that some of you have put NASCAR and polo in the same sentence when referring to public appeal. NASCAR has HUGE numbers..usually 100,000+ people come to EACH RACE.. when was the last time you saw 1,000 people at one polo match? come on.. polo is not even in the same league as NASCAR!

TV coverage-
one of the things brought up by NBC executives was that every rider looks like everyone else.. there's no way to differentiate between men and women (those of us close to the sports know the competitors, but "the public"doesn't know Margie from Mark.)

equestrian sport is looking into doing something similar to skiing in regards to sponsorship.. like the NF owns the right thigh, the USOC owns the left arm, and the skier's personal sponsors owns the helmet.. etc..

the people in the right places know that we need to reach out and create a business side of equestrian sport.. have faith... in this country, it's going in the right direction.

[Jodes, Aefvue Farms Bartender]

I'm a little speachless over this post...I sometimes find my self frustrated over the lack of support from "non-horsey" people, b/c I often wish they shared the same passion I do. I have to drag my friends kicking and screaming to even sit and listen to me discuss a horse show, or how well my greenie is doing etc..
HOWEVER, one thing I do realize, people are motivated by different things, and we all have different passions. I have never been accused of being a "snob" for being in the H/J world, I have been accused of being a little silly for spending the amount of time and money I do on my "kids" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
With that being said, yes, within the horse world, I have come across many people who I find less than desireable, if these people were not horse people, I would dislike them the same.
Sometimes I think people point out things about others, that they dislike in themselves. Just an observation.

[RioTex]

Old School, is this the kind of public awareness we can expect from the United States Equestrian Council? Who have you educated? What have you represented, protected or advanced at this point?

Do you think by alienating the participants of the sport that you will encourage support of your organization?

[Snowbird]

Dear me! you admit that we're boring, that we don't like those people who would be our spectators. You want to continue to defend the old ways and say like it or leave it.

I know you don't need to please anyone but yourself. Then don't whine about the cost of competition. Don't whine about the lack of Prize Money and be grateful there are even still people who want to offer horse shows at all.

When the horse farms are gone, and when you won't be allowed to keep a horse at home and it's too inconvenient to go out of town to ride what will you blame or who will you blame?

Racing is dying not because it is gambling but because they have fogotten the horse is the star. Smarty Jones proved that, he brought them back to the track even if for just a little time.

This is a moment in time when you who are in the governance of this sport have to face the truth or we will all be extinct. Your decisions and values trickle out to the world. It's not that the VIP riders are rude or mean but it is that they make it clear they don't care at all about anyone except what pleases them. Elitism is a state of mind not a pocketbook.

Do you think that people will pay just to breathe the same air you breathe? That you have enough celebrity to fill the stands with fans?

You simply cannot have it both ways at the same time. Someone mentioned the Rolex TV coverage do you know what that cost the association in YOUR MEMBERSHIP FEES? The article I read said the John Long admitted to at least $500,000 for the association.

If someone comes on here and tries to shake you out of your complacency you defend your position instead of examining it and then you will blame that person for being irritating since they tried to get you to see the extension of the thinking and where it can lead.

If our sport is boring and we want to pay our own way, then don't complain about USHJA and don't be surprised if those fees double again. You cannot support and industry nationally with a couple of hundred horses that are already starting to age out.

But, please do not be demeaning and insulting to those of us who care for the Entry Level competitor. We are not less human and neither are they. I like the new exhibitor. You may feel my shows are tawdry and should be replaced by more 10 ring marathons which attract "quality".

Quality is in the eyes of the beholder. My exhibitors come with their families to watch and cheer. My exhibitors still say please and thank you. Some even still bring cookies for the show secretary. They don't arrive five minutes before their class and expect a private schooling session and leave before their horse has cooled out. The children in the divisions actually get to be friends. They are not forbidden from talking to people from other barns.

Two different worlds...do we need two different associations?

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
just be open and nice, even in the face of ignorance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We're trying. Even peppering it with humor, but dude, your ignorance is appalling and frankly becoming mean-spirited now. Enough already.

[dogchushu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
"And really - who cares if the general public is a big follower of equestrian sports?"

Because they will eventually kill it. If you think this is impossible, follow British foxhunting. It has no logic, but it's happening. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a false analogy. Foxhunting may be in trouble in the UK, but (as far as I know), eventing, showjumping and dressage are doing quite nicely.

I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to claim you represent "the public" and you know exactly what they think of horse sports. Gallup and others have a whole industry devoted to finding out what the public thinks about issues. And you somehow can do this all by yourself?

Until a few years ago, I knew nothing about horses other than they were pretty and they pooped a lot. I was well over 30 before I even sat on an equine. I was just about as "non horsie public" as you can get.

My first impressions of the horse show world were wonderful. I met a lot of very receptive, nice, interesting people. Of course, I didn't go into it trying to change everyone and tell them how snobby, elitist, and corrupt they were... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[lauriep]

Is this our "aha" moment? Has RioTx outed you, and your agenda?

[Diva98]

Dare I ask? What's the United States Equestrian Council?

[Snowbird]

Even I never heard of that one is it legit or fishing?

[Tiramit]

At the risk of sounding facetious (oh, ok, just this once http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) NOTHING draws the public's interest like a good, old fashioned scandal. Throw some drama and partially-confirmed second-hand gossip and you have one heck of an interesting draw.

And since our sport is a veritable well of dramatic encounters, one might think it crawling with sports reporters and the average joe wanting to belong to something cool. Yet it still lacks public interest. It would seem a fair assessment that the "public" (including Old School who left the sport years ago and only hangs out on the BB to torture us) doesn't really care about the day to day competition of the english show world.

Unless it's the Olympics. People seem to watch show jumping during the Olympics.

[RioTex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Even I never heard of that one is it legit or fishing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good question.
USEC Vision Stmt (http://www.cleanround.com/backpage/index.htm)
There's even a CP reference on 9/26/04.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Even I never heard of that one is it legit or fishing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Google never heard of it either.

[Go-Go]

Is it affiliated with this?

http://www.cleanround.com/

Hey OS, don't you run cleanround.com? It's a nice site - really, it is - but why do you feel the need to come over here and bash COTH?

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Racing is dying not because it is gambling but because they have fogotten the horse is the star. Smarty Jones proved that, he brought them back to the track even if for just a little time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would dare say that racing is evolving not dying. Obviously it will never be as important as it once was when you only had the big three: racing, boxing and baseball for major sports.

My suggestion is to look at this feedback from the Nat'l Thoroughbred Racing Assoc's Annual Meeting and Marketing Summit:9/27 "Research group says horse racing has added 13-million fans" (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=49194&subsec=1)

[Cindeye]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Clarity!

[ser42]

Yes- I see now- OS certainly isn't a member of the general lay "public" when it comes to equestrian sports... OS has an agenda. But, I really don't see how that agenda is being served by OS becoming extremely defensive when others here were trying to figure out exactly what OS was trying to say... perhaps if OS didn't have a hidden agenda we members of COTH could have discussed the issues with OS in a way that would have pleased OS more.

[lauriep]

Thanks, RioTx, for the link that even escaped Google! Indeed, an "aha" moment. Clarity is a wonderful thing...

[Diva98]

How can OS claim to be an outsider of the sport and run a site like clearround.com? Hmmm...

Ser42, I agree - I must be missing something because I can't figure out what service OS is doing for themselves or their agenda by coming on here and starting so much trouble.

[jetjocky]

Had to chime in here. How vital is public perception to horse sports' survival? Well, look at the mess the British foxhunters are facing. That really is all about public perception and its evil cousin, class warfare. Will the "antis" ever come after horse sports in general? Well, they've come after combined training and some of the animal rights groups want to abolish all human ownership, or stewardship for that matter, of animals, so it's not that far-fetched. What stops them with cats and dogs, I think, is the relationship the vast majority of pet owners have with their animals.

As far as public relations in the horse world goes, I personally do my part by smiling and waving at everyone who passes me and my critter by as we hack down the road. I've gone through and introduced myself to as many of the neighbors as possible and mentioned that I ride in the area and asked permission if applicable to ride across their property. I always offer to sign a waiver as well.

[Snowbird]

They may hope that it means more permanent fans but I would guess that between Seabiscuit, the movie and Smarty Jones that easily accounts for the temporary boost. My hopes are with them however because the successes of the Racing Industry support the State Agricultural programs and that includes us horse folks.

Jetjocky that's the whole point and public perspection is critical. If we stay painted as rich folks who have too much money and too much time to waste then it will be detrimental to us all in many ways.

Nobody feels sorry for rich horse people who might lose their farmland assessment discount and have to pay more property taxes.

[ser42]

I believe it was the Boston Globe that published an article about a month or so ago that stated the average horse owner in Massachusetts earns $60,000 a year. Taking into consideration the cost of living here in Massachusetts, that's certainly not rich. And that's the AVERAGE horse owner. These owners have friends and family (members of the public) who understand that these average horse owners are not wealthy- they just put horses as a priority in their lives. How wealthy do you think the "general public" thinks we really are? Even more importantly, do they really care? I tend to think the general public's lack of interest in equestrian sports isn't because they think we are a bunch of trophy wives who have nothing better to do, but because, honestly, if you don't have an interest in horses, you would be bored to tears watching a horse show. I'm bored to tears watching golf, and that's because I have no interest, not because I think the players are one way or another.

Edited for some grammatical errors- I am still at work and typing quickly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Coreene]

Wow. First Mason Phelps calls us Little People, now we're not even part of The Public.

Then again, I don't want to be part of The Public either.

Midge, I'm stopping by the liquor store for reinforcements on my way over.

And I have always found polo to be a wonderful spectator sport.

[jetsmom]

Mistyblue- I'm still giggling over the thought of an announcer at a show Announcing like you suggested! That was too funny! No way in hell I'd ride in front of one though...too much for them to make fun of!

And the Saddletude ad that was posted was GREAT!

[MistyBlue]

jetsmom...could you imagine the horror of having your ride critiqued as you're riding? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Lord have mercy...the announcer would have a veritable field day with my rides, LOL! I'd have to go in with a paper bag over my head. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I had something similar happen once...sort of. When I was young, oh about 100 years ago, we had twice annual schooling shows at my barn. The announcer was a family friend and a very nice older man. In one of my classes on my own mare he actually announced me:
Here is MistyBlue riding Whoadarnit...let's all pray she finds her jumps this time.
LOLOLOL, I almost shot him. I laughed around the whole course and the audience joined in yelling which ones to head for next!

[Hexel]

I have relatives in Germany that are not all horsey. They know the icons/star riders as well as their scandals and follow their private lives much like hollywood stars here. My cousin emails me gossip she thinks might interest me from time to time. Horse sports in Europe are well attended.Their scandal papers feature the riders scandals and current affairs on the covers at times.
GP jumping over big jumps is exciting, a person on the back of a 1300# horse jumping big fences. With the occasioal stop, fall, near miss. Then a speedy jump off.
Nascar is exciting as well, a car going at a high rate of speed,vooom, vooom ,vooom around a track over and over. With the occasional crash or close call. What connection are we missing in the USA that Europe has not?

[lauriep]

We just have so many other, well-marketed sports to choose from, it would be tough to even find enough air time to add show jumping! Europeans really only have soccer to compete, have been raised on show jumping and so the sport doesn't have to break in, or prove itself to the European audience.

[khobstetter]

OH.....MY.....GAWD....... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Is this John?? Is this REALLY John??? REALLY REALLY REALLY AND TRULY JOHN???

How fortunate are we to actually get to have "correspondence" and "communication" with YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

HOLY SMOLY!!!! So what they say in Texas seems to be correct!! At least from the last dozens of posts here on the BB!

WAHOO AND YIPPEE!! MIDGE..COREENE....MOVE OVER..and pour me a glass to. I am in the car, on my way..but I have to spot and wash the spit off my windsheild from my reaction when I saw who this was.

It's goin to be a fun ride now!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[ser42]

Hexel- I don't know the answer to your question. Perhaps Hollywood or other popular pro sports provide enough gossip and scandals to satisfy the masses here in the U.S.? Or maybe our government (but that's another story....!)

Anyway, all I know is, I talked to many of my non-horsey friends after the Olympics this year. Some of them actually tried to watch the show jumping. Yes, tried. Many of them commented that after you see a couple of horses go around the course, that's as about as exciting as it gets- the rest seems very boring and repetitive. Yes, I think they like to watch people on big animals jump big jumps, but the novelty here in the U.S. only lasts so long. Maybe it's the American short attention span! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh yeah- and GO SOX!!!

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
Oh yeah- and GO SOX!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well your cheers worked - he was champ last night at WIHS. In front of a whooping crowd by the way.

Oh, were you talking about baseball??

[ser42]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go-Go:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
Oh yeah- and GO SOX!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well your cheers worked - he was champ last night at WIHS. In front of a whooping crowd by the way.

Oh, were you talking about baseball?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Hmmmmm.... maybe I'm just a member of the "Public," as that hadn't even crossed my mind when I wrote that... I am just a simpleton Red Sox fan....

[MAD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go-Go:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
Oh yeah- and GO SOX!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well your cheers worked - he was champ last night at WIHS. In front of a whooping crowd by the way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Congrats to the horse, not the baseball team)

[ser42]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go-Go:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
Oh yeah- and GO SOX!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well your cheers worked - he was champ last night at WIHS. In front of a whooping crowd by the way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Congrats to the horse, not the baseball team) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh c'mon- even though you used to live in Yankee territory (as I once did!)- you have to admit, it's been 86 years....

And yes, congrats to the horse as well!!!

[Go-Go]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ser42:
Oh c'mon- you have to admit, it's been 86 years.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I would never have guessed 86 - SU you are hot for a geriatric dude!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

[Old School]

Come on, surely you all can do better than this.

[ser42]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Old School:
Come on, surely you all can do better than this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[golfcart]

Old School is obiviously someone who tried to make it in the horse world and came up short and is now trying to bring everything int he horse world down with him.

Old School i'm sorry that it didnt work out for you in the horse world.

[Just My Style]

The train wreck is back. I don't know if I should be disturbed or pull up a chair to watch. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ss3777]

OK, Old School, I THINK I hear you. If I am hearing you clearly…..you theorize that perceived elitism (bad behavior, etc) could bring about less support for the H/J world. Right?

Which, actually you could draw some connections with that same “equation” in foxhunting and eventing. For example, one bad experience with a badly behaving equestrian can and has led to landowners refusing permission for the hunt to go over their land; the loss of the right piece of land can really ruin a hunt. Also, I know of an area event that was rumored to be lost due to a/some competitor(s) being rude to the facility owner.

So, I agree, a grassroots approach/wake up call to all equestrians is pretty simple…be kind to your neighbor. If for no other reason, that he may exert more control over your hobby/sport/passion/business than you think.

I guess in the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson (I see O.S. you may be a fan of Ralph??)

“You cannot do a kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late”