"Less important" riders have to give arena right of way to MORE important riders?? [Archive]

giantpony

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:33 AM

I board at a higher end facility, with a lovely indoor arena, most of the boarders are hunter/jumper people doing schooling shows and A's. Personally, I am a pleasure rider, retraining a rescued draft horse to be a pleasure/trail horse.

I pay the same board rate that everyone else does, however, I do not take lessons, my horse is not at that point yet.

Yesterday morning, I went to ride my horse. Often I ride in the outdoor ring, but the weather was absolutely foul, so I decided to wimp out and ride indoors.

My horse is very well behaved in the arena with other horses, doesnt do typical "green horse" things, she IS 15 afterall http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lately our rides are about walking forward, refining her steering and occasionally a few walk/trot transitions just because the mare loves to trot. It makes her happy.

So yesterday, I mount and start warming up at a walk when another horse and rider enter the arena without warning. No problem, my horse stops dead, gets very tall and looks, without another worry, she walks on.

The other rider gets on and immediately starts trotting and cantering around, jumps off and sets up 8 jumps and starts doing courses, not calling out her intentions.

At one point, I was down at one end of the arena while she was at the other and she came thundering down over 3 jumps and almost ran into us.

I didnt say a word, but she trotted over in front of us, stopped, forcing us to stop and said "You need to get your plow horse out of the way, cant you see Im schooling in here?" I replied, "I can see that, but I think there's plenty of room for both of us, if you see Im going to be in your way, call your jumps and I'll move. I'll work around you."

Apparently, she didnt like this idea. She stomped out of the arena, got the barn manager and came back. The barn manager, to my horror, came and talked to me, "you know this rider has a show on the weekend and needs to practise, she really needs the whole arena, you're not practising for any shows or doing anything important, you need to leave, maybe ride in the outdoor ring".

I was stunned. #1, I was in there FIRST. #2, since when does one person become more important than another. #3, I was trying to be reasonable and share (Ive shown h/j before, I can manage to stay out of their way!) #4, how can anyone have the nerve to decide whether what Im doing is important or not??

I told her, "I'll be done in about 10 minutes, she's welcome to share with me during that time, or if she'd rather have it to herself I'll only be 10 minutes." Maybe this was rude?

The end... I found an "eviction" notice on my stall door this morning, mostly saying that since Im not willing to "be a team player", Im no longer welcome here. Team player, what the heck?!

I tried talking to the barn manager and she said her hands are tied in this matter and agrees the other rider had the "Right of way".

Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?? Am I missing something?? (I never once raised my voice or said anything nasty, outside my head, that is!)

I guess I'll find a new facility... I dont want to stay where there is this insanity... but I dont really "get" the situation either.

HELP?

giantpony

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:33 AM

wendy

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:39 AM

It's certainly not fair.
It's a money issue: riders who take lessons and go to shows end up paying a lot more money to the barn, so sadly barns tend to cater to such riders. They'd rather you left than irritate their main sources of income into leaving.

ThirdCharm

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:43 AM

Clearing the ring for one person to school over jumps--unless the ring is TEENY, in which case she shouldn't be jumping a course in it anyway--is ridiculous. What is she going to do when she gets to a show and has to WARM UP?? Have her trainer ride no doubt.... My arena is 75x150 and we've had up to four horses in there, with two doing flatwork and two jumping, with no problems as long as some intelligence is applied.

That issue aside, there IS 'right of way' when multiple riders are in the ring, and riders working over jumps take precedence over just about everything else. So IF you know someone is going over a jump or line or course you need to get out of the way even if it means stopping what you are doing and standing in one spot. But if they don't CALL it that is impossible.

JenniferS

karinAlex

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:46 AM

Wow. That is so unfair. I am so sorry. That is absurd though!

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Karina
Proud owner of Loughnatousa Alex
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Heather

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:48 AM

It's ridiculous, but I agree with wendy that "it's business".

At my trainers, we routinely have four or five horses being schooled in adition to one or two in a lesson and jumping courses, and it works. Yes, everyone has to be on their toes, but it works.

But it's not about what works, or is fair, it's about $$$. The other rider isn't more important, she's just putting more $$ in the coffers.

AJHorsey

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:49 AM

Sorry about your situation! Where are you located? If near me, I might be able to suggest a few places. Or others from other areas could help out. Have fun with your horsie! Unfortunately, there are people like that. Sure, someone who is not paying attention to where I am (not you, though!http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif), whether on the ground or over fences, gets me mad, but I don't ever expect the arena to be cleared for when I ride. I can't stand when people want that. Afterall, what happens when your horse goes for warmup at different show, everyone trying to jump the same fences and warming up in the area at the same time? Get used to it! (I agree, this is different from schooling, but I sure wouldn't want to spoil myself and my horse that we can't warm up at shows.)

This is one of the few reasons I like the co- op system in our barn. No one owns the barn, and the membership as a group makes rules. We do have a rule that if you are jumping with other people in the arena, you must call it out, and have your ground person/ instructor tell people where to stand for that line if need be. Also, there is a 4 other rider limit, and if there are other people waiting to use the arena, jumping is allowed for only 30 min. We also, out of courtesy, write on a board when we are planning on jumping and having lessons, and generally other people try to not ride during that time.

Standardbred lover- owner of Studs Hooligan, aka Strider, ex- pacer, retrained for eventing
Proud member of the Riders of Rohan!
Strider's web site! http://home.woh.rr.com/thepetroskys/StriderWebPage.htm

eponacelt

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:50 AM

Thats ridiculous. There was a recent thread on the H/J forum about this kind of stuff.

Why is is that if you're not showing, there is a large contingent of people out there that think you aren't a serious horseperson?

This stuff really burns me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Good luck finding a new facility where this kind if insanity doesn't reign!

slc2

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:50 AM

you need to learn to ride with other people, that's all. it has nothing to do with one person being more important than another. it has to do with ring etiquette and rules for sharing a ring. the adjectives you use to make what these people were doing sound SO BAD, don't change that.

no one is required to call out each and every little thing. you can see what they are doing, and you can get out of their way. they don't have to call out each and every jump. you can see there is a line of jumps and where the person is going, and get out of the line of travel. if you cannot, stop, watch what path they are following, and then adapt to it.

you're walking, so you get out of the way of the person that is jumping. it has nothing to do with being important, it has to do with ordinary rules of sharing a ring. the fact that you are in the ring doesn't give you full command of what everyone else does there. you have to ride with other people. and yes, if you do not, of course you will be asked to ride in another spot, and eventually to leave the barn. i suspect you aren't as rude and selfish as this post makes you seem, and that you are just ignorant of how to ride with others.

if the rider was rude, doesn't change that fact. you need to learn to ride with others. you can keep your horse walking when others enter the ring, they aren't required to stand in the aisle and scream, ''OKAAAYY....i'm COMING INTO THE REEEEENG...is everyone REDEEEEEE'' you and they just work together, pay attention, and follow the rules that are customary at that barn.

the horse that is walking yields to horses that are jumping, trotting and cantering, usually by walking in off the rail, but also by walking away from the path of the jumper.

the horse that is jumping usually does a canter circle at one end of the ring, then jumps a series of jumps in a line on the long side and stops. it really isn't hard to stay out of their way when you are working at a walk. walk on the other long side, and make two small circles at each end of the ring, and let them work. when you are more advanced and have more control of your horse you can work more alongside them and in unison with them.

riders pass ''left to left'' in most rings, so when you are going left, you stay on the track, and the other rider comes to the inside and passes you, so your left shoulder is nearest their left shoulder. when you are going right, you come in off the track. if you keep your eyes up and keep your horse moving, you can use the presence of other riders to school your horse, making circles, turns and figures that fit in with what the other riders are doing.

horses at the walk, whether cooling out or schooling the walk, work to the inside off the track, and yield to all other horses.

circles and diagonal lines and any changes of direction figures finish to the INSIDE of riders riding on the track. there is NO halting on the track, ride into the middle off the track, check behind you and halt there. horses performing lateral work and horses that are green and out of control get whatever right of way they need to assist their riders in regaining control of them.

if a rider is erratic or doesn't follow a path you can anticipate, work at the other end of the ring and maintain a half ring between the two of you at all times. in other words if they are in the middle of the long side you are on the opposite long side, if they are on the short side of the arena you are on the far short side of the arena.

the above are common rules often used in arenas. watch the experienced riders and learn what the rules are for sharing the ring at your facility.

Court@HJ-OH

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:53 AM

If they are truely like that then you are lucky to be out of there.

**Courtney**

Jewels

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:56 AM

Wow, I would be real ticked if I were in your shoes! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

As if she can't make room for you when there are only two horses in the whole arena! Man have you ever been to a reining show?! The warm up rings are nuts, 20-30 rides all loping, and running madly about, and they can make it work (most of the time! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

"You could say I'm a few flakes short of a bale" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif
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JockoHorse

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:56 AM

Congratulations giantpony on your rescued draft horse. I have done a number of these retraining projects on "plow horses". Isn't it fun when your big horse gets even bigger?

I think that your barn owner/manager was out of line for siding with the other rider. You got into the arena first and were willing to share, so by rights you had the right of way. But the BO/BM has the last word and obviously they don't want your business. Can you find a barn more draft horse friendly?

I was at a barn full of quarter horses and wannabe hunter princesses and they didn't like my big "ponies" (all six of them, mind you). The barn owner's husband would terrorize my belgian draft gelding with any motorized equipment he could find. Moved the gang to a more draft friendly environment and everyone is a whole lot happier. Including me.

I don't know where you live but I get a lot of subtle prejudice against riding and showing draft horses. Everyone likes the idea of a big horse but not many people like the reality.

YMMV.

ChocoMare

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:57 AM

This is the number one reason why I don't board at a "barn." I found a private home (fortunately the owner is a very dear friend and co-worker of mine). I worked in show barns when I was younger and saw the snobs and spoiled brats everywhere.

They had the money and the fancy show horses so, naturally, they got the best of everything...including the indoor arena whenever they wanted, no matter who was in there already.

I was treated like dirt because I was just the "stable hand." I was the one who shoveled their precious horse's manure, made sure their buckets were prestine and full and never complained. I loved the work--heck, I'd have done it for free just to be with horses. The people I could have chucked in the dump trailer with the manure.

These are the ones who think that owning a horse is their right--not a privilege. They have no clue what us "under class" people have done, and do, to have our horses. Heck, I waited 30 years to get my mare...even then I could only afford her because she was a dumped rescue!

I don't have the money for a trainer. Don't need one either. I, like Giantpony, ride for pure pleasure. Don't need ribbons. Don't need shows. Don't need the hassle.

I love horses and riding is one of the greatest joys in life. I have had great training in the past from your average hunter-seat equitation folks. I earned my seat the hard way--got chucked umpteen times, etc.

While I think that the eviction notice was quite cold, maybe it's a blessing in disguse. Find a private farm and do what pleases you most. Heck, it might even be cheaper. And you won't have to deal with the snobs of the world.

P.S. No, I'm not generalizing. Not everyone in a show barn is a snob. I've just seen enough of them to want to avoid 'em.

Pechvogel

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:58 AM

No, it's not fair, HOWEVER, when you board you are agreeing to go along with the rules set at THAT barn. There will always be comprimises to be made and sometimes there are certain things worth trying to change. But the bottom line is that you are staying at someone else's private property. If the owner/manager wants all the horses painted purple and ridden without tack and she won't budge, that's her perogative because she owns/manages the place.

And some owners/mangagers are more influenced by money than others. If she perceives the other rider as possibly bring in more money then you, and that is what she is concern about, then unfortunately that's the way it is.

I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT! I wouldn't run my own barn that way, but them's the apples when you board. I do think that leaving an eviction notice on your door is VERY inappropriate. The manager should have either talked to you in person or at least on the phone.

One of the places I used to board several years ago had a boarder there who really thought she was hot stuff (it was a TERRIBLE dressage area). One day we were both schooling, her on her 3rd/4th level creature and me on my green 17 hand, 1500 lb, Trakehner MARE (just the two of us in there) and she kept pinning us against the wall despite the many warnings my mare gave (pinning ears, turning head towards the other mare, etc). I had to move up next to the wall to the point that my outside leg hit a couple of times. I was riding with my inside leg back to help keep her haunches from swinging in. I even tried the old, stick the dressage whip out to the side trick, no luck. Eventually after about half a dozen times of this lady coming up from behind us or off a circle and putting us into the wall, my mare gave a serious warning kick. She didn't go near us again. I did apologize for my horse's behavior, but in my mind I thanking my mare. That was the first time I rode with her and she never tried the same nonsense on subsequent rides. If she had done the same thing again, I would have spoken to her about it. Turns out my mare took care of that for me.

Things happen for a reason, though. Maybe you'll find an even better barn now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-Karen

foursocks

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:06 AM

Wow, that stinks- I am so sorry you had to go through that experience. About the limit of right of way stuff is when jumping, you *call your jumps* and can and should expect people hacking to give you the room you need. When hacking a nervous greenie, or really hot horse, mention this fact and ask for them to be aware, although you have the primary duty to watch where you and your baby are going. In special circumstances- for example, if someone is preparing for a big show, they might talk to you and say- I'm really nervous and I'd like to practice some things in an empty ring- how soon will you be done. I'd even consider that sort of rude, but at least it would be an attempt to communicate like a mature adult.

We've all been in the ring when someone else looks like they are just putzing around, but if they are a paying rider, they have as much right as anyone does to ride there! I sometimes ride on the eventing grounds next door. The owners let the trainer I ride for and her people take horses over there to hack around in the fields, but we don't use their jumps or go through their pond. They (obviously) hold events there, and also sometimes other people pay to use the grounds for clinics. If I see other people over there, I'm certainly not going to take up the space they are paying for while I'm just trail riding. But if I paid the owners to use their fences to school over, I'd have the same rights as the clinic people. It's just commonsense!

The sort of situation you are talking about seems really insane- I hope you can find a barn where you and your horse are valued- and good luck with her rehab!

You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil

Posting Trot

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:18 AM

In these situations, I think it's really important for everyone to try very hard to get along. That's not to say that the other rider was in the right (she sounds like she was very rude, as well as naive if she thinks that she's always going to be able to warm up in splendid isolation).

When I've been at a barn that had an indoor, anyone entering the indoor did indeed have to call out and say they were entering. I don't think this is uncommon. That said, once she started setting up jumps, it would have been the gracious thing to do to walk over to her and say, "i'll only be in here another 15 minutes or so, and I'll try to stay out of your way," while smiling broadly. You might add something about how beautiful her horse is.

Then, insofar as it's possible, you do try to keep out of her way. You might have prevented the "plow horse" remark this way.

However, once the plow horse remark is made, frankly, I'd go on the offensive. I'd say, "Excuse me, I don't think I heard you correctly." and make her either repeat it or else back down. If she repeats it, then you go over to her to have a serious talk about manners.

Or there is always the false charm approach: "Yes, she/he did use to be a plow horse. Isn't she lovely? Thank you so much for noticing." False charm sometimes makes people feel foolish.

But at this point, of course, this is all staircase wit. Find another place, and if it has an indoor, just make sure you understand both the written rules as well as the unwritten ethos.

Good luck.

horsegirl33

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:32 AM

good luck giant pony!! I hope you find a great barn that you can move to!!

I guess that's the one thing that I'm glad about my barn for.... no one complains about not wanting to share the ring. I don't own but I've had lessons where there's been FOURTEEN horses in the indoor....YES... FOURTEEN!!! Granted it was at the end of a set of lessons and the beginning of others, but it was chaos. But no one complained, we all knew the situation would fix itself. So after it quieted down, there were four horses in the indoor...one doing serious full courses but they were CALLING their jumps. I don't see how hard it is to CALL jumps. And one of the poor girls in there was a serious beginner and figured out how to stay away. It's NOT HARD TO DO GUYS!!!

I can't tell if slc is flaming you or just stating rules of arena etiquitte for everyone to read, but I think that what you did is right. I would have done the same thing. And I'd be pissed if I was asked to leave the arena, let alone get EVICTED!!!! You're a paying boarder!!! I guess this just goes to show you that this isn't the barn for you, especially considering how the other people there are. There are a ton of other amazing barns out there with 'normal' thinking horse people. Good luck! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

***God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses***

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RugBug

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:38 AM

While I think the situation is unfair, I wonder if there weren't some details left out.

She came into the arena without a warning? Most people don't give a warning. Did she come in a cut you off and thus the problem? If that was the case...you have a point...otherwise this piece of information is of no value

You said you are working on steering. Were you by any chance walking all over the place while doing that? When I work on steering with my greenie it's quite the sight...but if others enter the arena with me, all figures become much more predictable and if someone's jumping, all figures stop.

You also make it sound like you usually ride outside...probably alone where you don't really have to pay attention to anyone else and never have to modify your planned program for the day. That isn't a reality when sharing an arena...everything becomes flexible when others are involved.

You should've been aware enough of were she was that you knew she was jumping down a line that could lead to running into you. It may be hard to dictate what's going to happen when a rider is doing single fences (which they should call), but when they do lines it's fairly easy to tell where they are going to be. You should be aware enough of her that calling every jump isn't necessary.

It was rude to leave an eviction notice but maybe there are other problems as well and this was the final straw?

I've had problems with ring etiquette but usually working with the other person sorts it out. sunday I had to ask someone to not longe their horse in the indoor while I was riding and another was longing...the arena is barely big enough for two people to longe. My plans of shallow serpentines and leg yielding had to change as well...there was no straightaway long enough to do either. And yesterday, my "watch out" was misconstrued as "this is my end of the arena, don't ride in it" instead of "heads up...my horse is drifting towards you and I don't have much control at the moment." It's a give and take situation...

This may be a blessing in disguise for you. If the people at this barn really are so biased against your horse and elitist enough to say that your not important enough to use the ring then good riddance. If on the other hand, you ride in a bubble, unaware of others, maybe you need to evaluate your ring etiquette.

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tosca4711

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:44 AM

I don't know, but I seem to be out of the loop. At one time, if you wanted to jump in an arena where someone was already riding, you asked permission. Sharing the arena means everyone has to be considerate.

Tosca

Scar Face

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:46 AM

I know how you feel giantpony. At my previous barn not only did people attending shows have priority, but if you didn't buy one of "their" fancy warmbloods, you couldn't enter the arena during lesson times. Since they also didn't allow any of the boarders to ride until after 2:00 pm (the rest of the morning/afternoon was the time allotted for the trainers to ride the horses), there wasn't much time to ride before the lessons started again at 4:30 pm.

You can run with the big dogs or sit on the porch and bark.

Perfect Pony

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:54 AM

And people wonder why I am so hesitant to leave the barn where Dan is at, even though he's one big giant hive http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am at a barn with 2 trainers (H/J and dressage) and there are typically several lessons going on, several people schooling, and all sharing 2 rings without a problem. I actually once asked the H/J trainer how long her lessons would be in the outdoor, since I wanted to walk Dan around out there and get him used to the jumps and the large outdoor arena. She replied, "I don't own the ring, you can ride in there anytime you want, it's actually GOOD for my students to have other people in there". It's that kind of attitude at a barn that makes it priceless.

My take on this is that this barn doesn't seem like a good fit for you and your horse anyway, I'm sure there are barns out there that are.

Good luck!

"Dan the Man" (http://community.webshots.com/user/kalitude)

Moesha

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:55 AM

I am really sorry. First of all wow what a great person you are to have a rescued horse....he sounds adorable.

I ride with at a very well known barn, we only do the A shows and I will be leaving for Wellington in a week...and coming from that angle I can say....showing or money have nothing to do with this...it is a complete lack of professionalism in the barn manager and the trainers, to allow this kind of behavior.

I ahve hacked in our indoor while a lesson is going on and it can get crowded, no matter how nice....and even have been lessoning with my trainer..jumping around at 4'6"...and have never felt the need to be rude to anyone hacking around....because luckily my barn has an amazing clientele..who all respect each other....that is the key...

It sounds like you are pretty level headed and are not letting this "hurt" you...I wouldn't....I hope you can find a nice barn and that this does not affect how you view people...

Frankly anyone with so little class and manners probably is just bitter that she is not really very important in the shceme of things!

Best of Luck!@
M

Wonder Why

Jan. 28, 2004, 11:57 AM

Ridden and boarded at and shown with several barns.
In my experience it is not unsual for people to call out "door" if they are going to enter the ring. I don't think that is out of line or an outrageous idea. It is courteous to call out (while jumping) "diagonal line, outside line" etc. you know, like if you were in a busy warm up ring at a show. This is to make it clear as to where you will be headed so you and the other rider(s) will not all end up in the same corner of the ring and the others can plan their circle or whatever around you. It is also common to give the rail to the horses working at the trot or canter if you are walking. This just makes riding in a group while doing your own thing safe.

Certainly sucks to find out that your money isn't as green as others. You all pay the same $$ for board and unless ring use is a separate fee, everyone should have equal access to the ring regardless of their equestrian pursuits. Showing is not better than pleasure, just different. The facility can make more $$ off of people that show from the fees that generates, usually through lessons and coaching fees, not ring use.

It doesn't sound like a great place to board. Good luck finding a friendly place that treats their boarders fairly.

Moesha

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:01 PM

I also wanted to add....I know you put it in quotes..to express your point..but any barn where anyone is considered a "lesser" rider is not the place to be.

Everyone starts somewhere and everyone works with what they have and within their means and towards their goals.

A beginner Adult who will never leave the farm for a show and a Junior Jumper rider with a winning horse..while different in needs and in potential business profit.etc....should still be seen as equally important as the individuals they are and the fact they choose to ride at a certain barn and with the trainers there.

Obviosuly one will take more time and that is fine, that part can't be equal..but consideration and interest can be.

The most important thing is the heart and ddesire to ride....and less or lesser can never fit into that.

DancingPretense

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:10 PM

Situation does suck, for lack of a better term. However, it sounds like to me that they may have been looking for a way to get you out since they are a show oriented barn. People showing bring in more money for the barn and build a name for the barn. There was a thread recently on the H/J about boarders being required to do X number of shows a year. It is a way to get the clients they want. Fair, maybe not but it is their business.

Sounds like you probably don't want to be there anyway if those are the kinds of people. Good luck with your rescue!

http://community.webshots.com/user/ridenyc

giantpony

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:12 PM

The arena is 80 x 120, a reasonable size, in my opinion.

I've been boarding at this barn for almost 3 years now (with different horses), and never once have I heard a complaint about me, my ability to share an arena or my horses' behaviour. I pay on time, I muck my own stall on the days the barn staff has off, I help paint jumps on "work weekends" etc. My horse is not hard on stalls, fences, staff or other horses.

Horsegirl33, it really is unclear whether slc is flaming or not, I do give them the benefit of the doubt, however.

slc, of course you have no way of knowing my experience level or anything, so I can not fault your attitude, Im sure you've had to ride with beginners that dont understand the rules.

As I have said, I have ridden h/j for many more years than I care to think about, and have endured many of those hectic warm up rings at shows. Often at this barn, there are 4 - 6 of us sharing the arena, usually doing different activities. This is the first time I've had any problem with anyone in the arena. Normally, people communicate their intentions when jumping and it IS in fact a rule at this barn to announce your entry to the arena and have them respond to you before opening the door. (The door itself, when opening, occasionally makes an unusual sound that creeps many of the horses out, hence the strict rule.)

Jockohorse, nice to hear from someone else who does and likes these retraining projects http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We seem to be few and far between. I like the way you describe the subtle prejudice, (though its not always so subtle!)its so true. Luckily, Im past the stage in my life where I care if people approve, but I dont take kindly to rudeness about it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PostingTrot, I wasnt aware I had to go so far out of my way to be gracious, but since I would not be sincere, I dont think I could pull it off without sounding catty. ("add something about how beautiful her horse is").

Apparently, over the years, things have changed. Years ago, if someone was flatting in the arena, you asked permission to set up jumps or you waited until they were done. Or if you really wanted/needed to use the arena alone, you spoke to the barn manager to find a time of day when its not busy and maybe leave a note on the board reserving the arena for a time period no longer than 30 minutes.

I do believe there must be more to this situation, maybe things Im unaware of, Im always open to the possibility that I might not be perfect http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif However, I do think if I am or have been guilty of other infractions, the barn manager might have mentioned them by now?

I also do not believe I was at fault in the arena. Whenever it was clear what her jumping intentions were, I made sure I was no where near them. When she came down over the 3 jumps, it was not technically a line, not even a bending line or gymnastic, it was erratically jumping 3 jumps in my direction.

Im going to see 3 different facilities in the next day and a half, all with indoor arenas. I'll be certain to find out their policies regarding arena usage.

dogchushu

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:15 PM

It's unfortunate that you were asked to leave. But I'll be willing to bet that you wouldn't have been happy there if that's their attitude.

Yes, slc has a point that everyone sharing a ring has to learn to look out for other riders. No one can dominate the ring and dictate what other riders should or should not do.

But that works both ways! Regardless of what you have coming up, unless you're in a lesson, everyone has to share the ring! If anyone at my barn had said "I need the ring all to myself because I have a show this weekend," my barn owner would have laughed herself silly and told them to get over themselves!

There are different ways of handling traffic at different barns. At our barn, you do call out jumps. It's common courtesy--plus it's pretty darn dangerous not to!

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

Rifter

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:29 PM

If that's the attitude of the people of the barn, get the hell out of there whether they go forward with the decision to evict you or not. You're a paying customer even though you "JUST" pay board. You have as much right to use the facilities as any other person in there. Now if there was a lesson going on (e.g. this other person was in a lesson with a trainer) I could MAYBE see why they would ask you to leave. But you were both out there schooling, so I don't understand. Get out. You and your horse don't deserve to be treated like second class citizens because you're at a different place in your training than this other horse/rider combination and you have different goals in mind for your horse than this show rider. And for her to call your horse a plow horse, that's just flat out rude. I'm glad you have a little more self-control than me, I probably would've knocked her lights out! Run FAR FAR away from this barn!

*-Rifter-*
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse and the Disgruntled College Student Cliques

breezymeadow

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:39 PM

All I can say is, Lord help the woman who made it her personal business to get you evicted. Because if she ever has to change barns, she may just find her self-important attitude is far less tolerated in the "real" world.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

marta

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:47 PM

'plow horse'?!!?! i must be ill tempered but that would be enough to make my very cranky and to let everyone know about it. not that the phrase is necessarily an insult but used in that manner by that person... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
every barn i've ever been at it is customary (and practically required) to call out "door" when entering (w/ or w/o a horse).
i guess there is no sense in dissecting the situation - obviously this is not a right place for you or your horse. i just wanted to tell you that i think you were right and wish you luck in your search for a new more horse and people friendly place.

"It appears we are being transformed from an information
society to an informant society." Rep. Dennis Kucinich

MyShadeOfPink

Jan. 28, 2004, 12:58 PM

Wow, that is rediculous. They evicted you because of this? Good riddance.

While you did have the ring first, by natural ring ettiqute you move to the horse going at the faster pace. You should yield to her jumps. If you were having a problem, I would have suggested flagging her over, and asking if you could both designate an area for you BOTH to happily ride in.

BUT, she had absolutely no right to be insulting and rude like that.

Good luck with your rescued mare, and have fun with her. Have fun finding a new place, juding by the tone of your post, the one your at now definitly left some to be desired.

GOOD LUCK!

edited to add: Sorry I didn't see the thread was two pages, so I didn't see that she was jumping eratically. So never mind me saying move out of her way when she jumps http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jennie
"all these lines fall short of what i had in mind
a failed attempt to capsulize a feeling
so i just try fail and try and try again"
See my albulm Updated 11/11 (http://community.webshots.com/user/myshadeofpink)

[This message was edited by MyShadeOfPink on Jan. 28, 2004 at 05:04 PM.]

breezymeadow

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:18 PM

Oh, & I'd like to add here that some moron NOT giving any indication of entering the indoor on a cold, windy day was responsible (okay - partially responsible), for my horse spooking so badly at the unexpected entrance that he tossed me about 15 feet & I ended up with a badly fractured spine that is painful & debilitating to this day.

Yes, there were mitigating circumstances - I was in a private lesson where the instructor had me doing a "relaxation exercise" (ha ha). Was riding "on the buckle", with no stirrups & with eyes closed. We were alone in the arena until this person came bursting in without warning. I didn't have a prayer.

The woman never apologized; never called; nothing. And I was flat on my back for 6 months. Whatever happened to plain common courtesy?

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

flshgordon

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:27 PM

SLC are you for real??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
"you need to learn to ride with other people, that's all"

Looks like perhaps you should have waited for a few details from the O.P. before giving her a 5 year old beginner's lesson on ring etiquette.

Let's touch on something else--if the person jumping can't ride a line (or as the case now appears to be--3 random jumps) and keep from running into the ONE other person in the ring then that person shouldn't be jumping anyway! And they're sure as hell going to have trouble at all these big shows they're preparing for because the warmup ring doesn't clear for one rider!!! I have regularly jumped in a smaller ring than that while people were schooling on the rail and I've never had a big problem or felt the need to run and tattle to the barn manager.

...how bout this....don't run your horse all the way to the rail....make the turn a little earlier if someone is right there on the rail! Perhaps what's really going on is that the person jumping was a bit out of control and chose to take it out on the person minding her own business.

That said, none of us will ever know, but to say that just because someone is jumping they always have the right of way is flat wrong, it's all about give and take when you're on a 1200lb animal and you shouldn't rely on perfect circumstances and surroundings--you certainly won't be getting that at a show.

Giantpony if I were you I'd be glad to leave that place. I wouldn't want to be anywhere where my $$$ wasn't just as good as someone else's.

"Any and every aspect of riding should be for the betterment of the horse"--GM

shamrocks

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:34 PM

I can't beleive she called your horse a plow horse and the barn manager said you wern't doing anything important. That's the snotty, elitest attitude that gives our sport a bad rap. Like someone else said be glad that you're leaving and don't look back. They obviously don't value your business or care about your goals for your horse.

tatertot

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:46 PM

Wow - you seem much better off finding another place - I was very surprised to see the response from SLC which basically implied you should have let this other rider have the ring to herself, as if you were at fault - that is ridiculous - everyone who pays board is entitled to use the ring and share it( unless there is some other ring agreement which you didn't mention so I assume not) ! You were so gracious in your response to that. At my barn we always yell door prior to entering the indoor so as not to startle anyone inside ( that just seems like common courtesy and good sense), we can have as many as 12-14 people at one time and noone is any more important than anyone else wether they are a person who shows or someone who is there for pleasure - we are courteous to each other if someone is jumping (even while in a lesson) they call it so the rest of us can ride around them and stay out of their way. The behavior of the woman ( who insulted your horse - all horses are beautiful doesn't she know that!JMO) was terrible and frankly to treat you the way she did makes her sound like a jerk, the barn owner feeding in to it is also terrible- you are going to be better off without tht place or them - good luck finding your new place and with your rescue project it sounds fun.

Proud member of the "chicken Jumper clique"

Box-of-Rox

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:51 PM

ugh. I don't really know what kind of show this woman was preparing for, but I can promise you that, from a background like Moesha's, I've ridden in rings with some VERY important, good people--people for whom a "show on the weekend" is not something to be prepared for, but is rather, well, life--and NO ONE would EVER behave in that manner.

It's obscene that you were evicted,and worse that she said that about your horse and that the manager was such a wretch, but honestly good riddence.

BoR:
"I always feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."--Billy Madison

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Churchill

Ben and Me

Jan. 28, 2004, 01:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> it was erratically jumping 3 jumps in my direction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What on earth kind of horse show was she preparing for!?

Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
-T.S. Eliot

lilblackhorse

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:30 PM

What a crock of sh!t....the fact this woman thought you were nothing, and then had the gall to get in your face and call your horse names?

It would have been all I could have done to have been civil to her face. I commend you on saying what you did--the "I'll be finished in a few minutes" was spot on.

I totally disagree with SLC here--wow, you are SO off base here, about this. Yes, you DO have to get along, but for as long as I have been riding, the person who is in the ring has some rights too. And every arena I've ever ridden in which has high doors, we give a "KNOCK KNOCK-I'm coming in" holler. Common courtesy so you don't open the damned gate into someone cantering down the long side. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And to not have the common courtesy to say "Hey, Giant, I have a show coming up, and I'm going to pop over some fences, is that going to be ok with your greenie?" That would have been nice...then like we do in the big ring when people are schooling or having lessons---someone will say "They're going to do this outside line, then come around here and do this"...it's not rocket science I know, but some people jump like crap, and don't take near the lines that I would, so sometimes it's really hard to stay out of people's way.

I think you got the big stick on this one Giant, and I'm sorry. It sounds like you are a conscientious boarder and owner, and this lady needs a bullet. I hope you find a nice new place to move, and that this bitch with the show horse gets some karma which is coming to her. Maybe the BO will suddenly find this gal's not so great and regret the callousness of evicting you. She should be ashamed.

And being me? I'd sure come up with some good comebacks for when you see that nasty woman someday http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...something like "Hey, know that plow horse of mine? He just got a 75 percent at his first dressage show", or something equally as lame just so you can walk away without slapping her silly. Boy, reading your post SURE made me mad. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

katarine

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:32 PM

How dare you ride your plow horse in the sacred indoor?

I vote we put SLC on a reiner in a busy warm up pen. Try negotiating circles while half the crowd is fencing. Oh, I forget, SLC's preferred mode of equining is dressage, land of onehorseonearena.

ANYwho, *cre* that beatch for calling your horse a plow horse. Loser.

Good riddance to bad trash, time to move on. That barn needs an enema.

"Shoot me now! Shoot me now!"
Bugs Bunny

tosca4711

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:33 PM

Hi GiantPony: I have a draft cross, and I have run into this prejudice as well. I love the draft crosses. Mine is incredibly sane lol. Good luck finding a new barn. You were in the right.

Tosca

onetempies

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:43 PM

That bites... for sure! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif It's all about rules of the ring and each rider watching the other so you can stay out of the way. I wonder how this rider handles herself in the warm-up ring if she can not work around one other person who is only walking in the arena. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

DraftHorsePower

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:50 PM

ugh!!! How dare her to call your drafty a "plow horse" i have a drafty x and i would have gone into attack mode with the crop if someone said that to me. Good job on keeping your cool, that barn sounds like hell on earth, and the general population seems to agree. You should print this out the day your "eviction" takes effect and paste it onto your BO's door. That would be fun for some kicks http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

*~Emilee~*

breezymeadow

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:53 PM

And good Lord slc - I don't even know where to START in responding to your response.

I boarded at a 65-horse show facility in NY where there inevitably were dozens of folks schooling in the indoor 24/7. Not only did we all "get along" - without having your list of "rules" tucked in our pocket - but no one got evicted, regardless of their riding level.

We had everything from pleasure/trail folks, to folks doing ALL the "A" shows, including the indoors. Everyone got along. And without your "official" rules - just the rules of common courtesy.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

dogchushu

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:55 PM

I find it very funny that we have a thread over on the H/J forum where people are discussing why riders never venture out of the ring anymore and George Morris called us "hothouse flowers."

And here I find out some of us can't even ride inside the ring unless we have it all to ourselves! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Yup, miss "I can't jump with anyone in the ring" rider is ridiculous, and your barn owner is warped--way to encourage prima donna riders!

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

onetempies

Jan. 28, 2004, 02:56 PM

oooo lbh... I like the way you think!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

flaxenmane

Jan. 28, 2004, 03:00 PM

giantpony: I must say, I've been at both ends of the spectrum on your dilemma. When I returned to riding as an adult, I used to go into the indoor at a snobby dressage barn where all the upper-level riders would be doing quadrilles for fun, and acting as if I was an invisible. Made me crazy! Now that I'm a Preliminary eventer -- many years later -- I do find myself impatient when I'm trying to prepare for an event. It is SO MUCH work to do, and sometimes I feel as if the other more casual riders at the barn don't get it. So I guess my advice to you is, go to a new barn where it doesn't matter what you do with your horse, and where others are at a similar place. Let them know in advance what your focus is, and ask if they are comfortable with that. In any event, it sounds completely overreactive what this barn owner did -- so consider yourself better off leaving. Good luck.

countingstrides

Jan. 28, 2004, 03:00 PM

Maybe slc IS the barn manager. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Good luck giantpony. I'm sure you'll find a much better place to board.

Tollriffic

Jan. 28, 2004, 03:00 PM

Nobody has to give way because they arent as important.What they do have to give way for is people in lessons,jumping,or going at a higher gait.Seems nobody at our barn gets thathttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.....

**Proud Member of the Teen Clique**
Go back under your bridge you evil troll!You have no powers here!

lilblackhorse

Jan. 28, 2004, 03:09 PM

too bad it's not like cars. Our town has been overrun with idiots on cell phones who don't understand simple driving rules. Like at a 4 way stop, you just don't get to follow the person in front of you out http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. This happened to me twice the other day when it was MY turn to go---I complained to my husband and he said I need to drive the 1980's Landcruiser instead of my car. In those cases, he said he just pulls out because HE has the right of way, and is BIGGER>

See-I thought of that because you have the drafty--pity you couldn't just get in the way because you are bigger and say that you couldn't see her horse because it was so small http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. (yes, I am evil)

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

triosmom

Jan. 28, 2004, 03:40 PM

Giant Pony, I'm so sorry that you have to uproot your pony after 3 years to find a new place, but agree that you may be better off. They don't seem to value you and basically, you deserve better service than that! I love the comments about 'hot house flowers' and schooling rings! I've survived a few of those rings myself, both in the hunter world and the dressage world. I love the 3rd & 4th level riders that roar across the warmup right for your green training level baby.
Hang in there and I hope you find a place that appreciates a good boarder!

onetempies

Jan. 28, 2004, 04:37 PM

triosmom... not all of us 3rd/4th level riders do that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif Some of the FEI riders are worse. I've been bumped by a few (literally bumped as they're passing), I know people who have had the same either by a leg bumping, whip brushing their horse, or just plain cut off from a pass or dead halt in front of you.

At the barn I board my one mare, we're actually going to start having all the show students haul to the barn one day a month so we can all school with each other.

LBH... Hummer might be pretty good too! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

GP... in the end, I think you'll be better off AND more comfy in a different barn situation. Best of luck!

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

fargonefarm

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:01 PM

1. One should always call the jumps that they are riding to. It's safe that way. Otherwise, it's not.

2. If the nasty rider is really trying to practice for a show, then she should get used to riding in a warm-up with other people. Unless no one told me that now in Hunters each rider has their own set of up warm-up jumps. Now that I would like to see.

3. Last I observed, a Draft horse could kick a typical TB hunter's ars into the next time zone any day. (And I recommend trying to prove this if you ever see her again!)

No flaming responses needed here. I'm just in that sort or mood. But geez, how wenchy can people be? Ugh!

Riding: the art of keeping a horse between you and the ground.

seal

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:10 PM

What does that woman do when she needs to ride her horse in a warm up? Ask everyone to leave? I think not! I can assure you, a warmup at a show, especially one of the bigger shows like Indio, is packed with all kinds of people. She sounds a tad bit self centered.

My condolences to you giantpony for all the abuse you have had to suffer. I can relate. I was at a barn that allowed boarders, however, they increased the board and told us mere boarders that we were NOT allowed to ride in the new ring! Say what? You had to be training in order to ride in the new ring. Lovely, isn't it?

Basically, they give lip service to boarders. They really don't want boarders only those that want to be in training. If they limited the boarding to only those in training, however, the barn would be almost empty! It's crazy.

I was also asked to leave a ring by a client who was getting a lesson, but the trainer said I could stay. It must have pissd off the client because she cut directly in front of me, narrowly causing an accident.

Trust me, you are far better off being in another zip code if necessary to get away from these people. It isn't worth putting up with their attitude and ignorance.

I also feel you demonstrated admirable restraint when she called your lovely horse a plow horse. What a rude beaatch.

JenEM

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:12 PM

Wow, GiantPony, it sounds as if you'll be better off elsewhere.

I am the part-time rider of a green draft X, and she's a doll. I've ridden her in crazy warm up rings, and with beginners, and never had a problem. When riding with beginners, or even slightly less experienced people in the same lesson, I always try to keep out of their way, whether I'm the one jumping or working on flatwork. It's easier for me to make a tighter turn on a jump course (which also forces me to sit up and ride better http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) than cross my fingers that the person who can barely steer will stop or move!

Hope you find a much better barn for you and your giant "pony"! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RHdobes

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:32 PM

Giant Pony, that rider was lucky you WERE there. What if she had taken a header? I thought you were always s'posed to have a second person there, in case of injury.

Let her have the ring to herself. She can lie there on the ground with a broken arm, neck, head, whatever, until someone "important enough" comes and finds her.

Scootie

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by countingstrides:
Maybe slc IS the barn manager. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Good luck giantpony. I'm sure you'll find a much better place to board.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been sorely tempted to ask the same question. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

Black Market Radio

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:39 PM

What LBH said... Also, I know what you mean about the bigger car thing, when I had my big red truck, no one questioned who went first as they would see AND hear the Big Evil comin at em if they tried to take my turn! I had a 351 with a turbo so I was powerful AND quick. Boy do I miss that truck.

Giant, a few years ago slc tried to say it was MY fault when I quit and my psychotic boss did some pretty nasty things, like yelling at me for not wanting to climb the huge stack of hay and knock down alfalfa when there was plenty of oat hay. I was there all by myself and didn't feel comfortable about it. Guess what his response was? "If I was here, and you fell, there is nothing I could do about it." !!! I said, "You could apply basic first aid and call 911!" You know what that arse said to me? "That's not logical." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif that was just a small part of it, there were many reasons I had listed on my vent thread, as to reasons why I quit, many of which were quite mentally abusive. And slc said it was MY fault and tried to get me to see my boss' side! This man was a CHP. I say was because he is now no longer on the force for some idiotic and tragic accident which I will not discuss because I don't have all the facts...

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
I'm a Lumberjack and I'm Ok

Scootie

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:43 PM

Plow Horse. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

And since when did it become not important to teach any horse to be a good riding horse? I guess you're supposed to keen 'em in the wild state. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

And that Barn Manager was totally out of line, and totally unprofessional. The whole thing was uncalled for. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif The End.

Too bad a good situation had to go bad on you suddenly like that. Sounds like there may be some other changes going on in the barn culture for such a thing to happen. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

So I hope you and your big girl find a really nice place with really nice people who are pleasant to ride with.

Good Luck. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Founder and president of the No-Legged Rider Clique

tcgelec

Jan. 28, 2004, 05:54 PM

Sorry for your trouble, GiantPony.

My experience is that it takes a door closing before another one opens, sometimes. I have a sense that you feel the same way, and I wish you good luck in your new barn when you get there.

When I used to ride in a busy indoor, 1) You yelled "door" and waited for the word "clear" before entering. This is definitely the custom for our area. Also, it is customary to call jumps when not under the direction of a trainer.

I don't want to flame slc but I agree that her post was a bit harsh and also presumptuous. Maybe she just got up on the wrong side of the bed. You can heed her technical advise if you want, just don't let her condescending tone get to you.

Hate to stereotype, BUT not too surprised when I learned of her affiliation in the dressage camp. Last fall, I rode in Ireland for a week with sixteen other equestrians of varying disciplines and abilities and we all got along very well and supported each other--except for the 70 year old dressage rider from Canada who spent the whole week criticising others' riding, tack, and obvious lack of understanding of some very technical points of horsemanship that she was more than happy to hold court on. Her condescending attitude was a source of annoyance until I switched gears and started asking her to expand on her technical dissertations until she ran out of B.S. and actually started to keep her mouth shut for the last few days!

Oops, maybe that was uncalled for. I guess maybe it hit a nerve!? Oh well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

BTW I love Draftys--I think I'm going to end up with one some day!

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

Dusty

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:15 PM

A couple thoughts...

1. slc - after reading all your posts about theraputic riding, you are the last person I would think would be so harsh on someone who is just trying to enjoy her horse. I can't say anything nice about your post, so won't say anything.

2. Respect for all riders...whatever happened to it???

3. All these so-called "important" riders are only wanna-be important riders. It's their true lack of self-esteem and talent that make them think they are sooooo much more important.

*Ride and let ride...*

Rifter

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:26 PM

slc,

How could you be so rude and condescending? And since when is it not commont courtesy to call what fences you're jumping? The last time I saw two 1500lb animals collide while jumping because of a failure to communicate, it was horrendous. How the hell are you supposed to get anything done when riding around, attempting to constantly anticipate every other rider's move? A little "heads up on the diagonal," "door," and "Inside" never hurt anyone. Jeesh.

*-Rifter-*
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse and the Disgruntled College Student Cliques

luckyduck

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:34 PM

This may come back to bite me on the butt...because I can't take the time right now to read through all the posts....

BUT>>>>>>>>

First off....I have a facility in the process of being over hauled, and 75 some odd lessons and 21 boarders are SHARING a 220 x 100 outdoor ring from 3:00 in the afternoon until 9 at night. At some points we have 16 or 17 horses in the ring.

Fun....HELL NO! It's like being at a HUGE show schooling and I THOUGHT it was going to be IMPOSSIBLE, but for the 3rd week in a row now, we have handled it with grace, ease and care for the OTHERS in the ring.

The boarders graciously participate by changing directions when the trainers do, we add the WHOLE group into the LARGE lesson and what used to be an hour lesson sometimes go on for 2, but NO ONE is complaining because I think they have learned a valuable lesson about giving up convienance for a bigger picture....our new 100 x 200 ring. and the old one as well.... more space fewer people.

Anyway, I don't care if you are paying $150 a month or $2000 a month. Ring manners are ring manners and NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is going to walk into our ring.... or rings.... and call some one elses horse a "plow horse"

That would be their eviction notice from me....with a swift kick in the BUTT! (to be polite) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

www.westwindfarm.net (http://www.westwindfarm.net)
Home of the real Luckyduck & West Winds Ricky Martin

[This message was edited by luckyduck on Jan. 31, 2004 at 04:44 PM.]

[This message was edited by luckyduck on Jan. 31, 2004 at 04:45 PM.]

Jennasis

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:37 PM

slc strikes again. I have yet to read a truly inspiring or even kind post from this person towards another.

At EVERY barn I've worked or boarded at (including the one I own now) it has ALWAYS been policy to announce your entrance to the arena by yelling "Heads up DOOR/GATE!"

It has ALWAYS been policy to call the jump/s you are doing when schooling (when in a lesson it us your instructors responsibility to inform all other riders where you are going).

It has ALWAYS been policy to share with others and NEVER be demeaning to a fellow rider.

We even announce when we are passing each other ("heads up inside/outside") or circling. Teaches my kids to be heads up and courteous in hectic warmup rings.

If this is the attitude of the barn (evicting you for not being a team player) then it is a team you don't want to be on anyway. Good riddance. I WOULD however speak to the barn OWNER before departing to express you extreme displeasure with their "customer service". Your money is as good as anyones.

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

giantpony

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:46 PM

Thanks to everyone that replied, I sure am thankful for all opinions, even ones I dont like very much, forces me to be more objective about my faults http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Besides, when you post something to a public forum, you know before you hit "post now" that someone is going to disagree, and someone is going to flame you and you just have to say "life's too short to allow someone else to make me feel bad".

I was upset about the situation at the barn, mostly confused, but after thinking about it, maybe it is time for a change. Hopefully my husband and I can find a place with TWO available stalls, so we can go and buy another drafty at auction to become HIS trail horse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Instead of dwelling on the past situation, let's move forward to the possible new boarding facilities.

I went this aft to one place, its about 10 minutes farther away than my current place, but I didnt get good vibes while I was there. Its run by a man, who's about 60 - 65 and he talks about how he's been "doing this for 40 years". I dont think it will be a good match for us, he doesn't seem to "be up" on modern equine practises, like some feeding issues. He offers 1 gallon of sweetfeed per horse twice a day, period. When I asked if he's willing to feed something different if I provided it, he said "look out there in that field, all them horses seem to be doing just fine, yours will too". When I looked out, I saw 10 - 12 round, barrel shaped quarterhorses waddling around on their teeny little feet! (my perception of their feet may be off, being as my girl has enormous feet! no offense intended!!)

While this clearly isn't a place I want to board, I quite enjoyed my visit with him. He's one of those guys that can talk for a really long time, but never say very much, but somehow, its still interesting http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm going to see two more places tomorrow, hopefully one of them will work out, now the sooner I leave my current place, the sooner I can start having fun with my mare again http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jennasis

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:51 PM

Go with your gut..

Also, may I ask where you found your draft? I am hopelessly looking for one down here in the south!

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

Lauruffian

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:53 PM

Holy shiznit.

Some people seriously suck. And blow.

Let us know how the new facility search goes, GP. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better...some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura's Photo Album (http://www.picturetrail.com/LauraRae)

Linny

Jan. 28, 2004, 06:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wendy:
It's certainly not fair.
It's a money issue: riders who take lessons and go to shows end up paying a lot more money to the barn, so sadly barns tend to cater to such riders. They'd rather you left than irritate their main sources of income into leaving.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I understand that paying more means that the barn will cater to you BUT not being permitted in the arena while a showrider is working is insane. This incident was not a matter of the show rider getting preference, you were shorted a service, use of the indoor. Unless the barn has a printed policy that only showriders may use the indoor during poor weather, tey have no right to kick you outside.
It does sound to me like you would be better off at a friendlier barn. This is supposed to be fun. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

giantpony

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:13 PM

Jennasis,
I bought my mare at an auction. At best guess, she's 15 - 20 years old, had a large, raw rub mark from wearing a collar in harness. She was also about 300 lbs underweight, she's in good weight now at 1958 lbs (we weighed her recently when we had her on the trailer).

Where in the south are you? I know of several people in the south with drafts for sale, maybe I can help? There's also lots of pmu mares out of a job that are looking for homes http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PT me if you'd rather http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

breezymeadow

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:17 PM

GiantPony - if you're not comfortable posting it here, would you mind e-mailing or PT'ing the name of this ugly facility? I often have folks asking me about various facilities round about & would LOVE to steer them clear of this one.

My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer-upper".

Jennasis

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:17 PM

Check your PT's

Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

Soar like a weasle my friend.

Celtic Witch

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:28 PM

scotchdun

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:29 PM

Giantpony,

Having been in a similar situation in the past, I'm guessing they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of you for some reason or another. Move on and forget about that barn. Obviously, it was a bad fit anyway. I make sure, when the subject of boarding comes up, that everyone knows about my bad experience at that particular barn, but I have solved the problem once and for all by having my horse at home - "twice the care at half the price" is my motto!

DarkerHorse

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:48 PM

Wite the trainer's name and the barn's name here in this thread. Wait until 100 other posters tell you that you are right and theyare insane, which they are.

Print out 20 or 30 copies. Put them all over their barn. let them know that horse show people from around the country woudn't board at their barn.

-----
Horsey E-bay! Check it out. (Still in beta stage, but it works)
http://classified.catchride.com

race_run_jump

Jan. 28, 2004, 07:50 PM

I'm in the "you are SO right" camp. Some people are truly remarkable. If you're in VA - come play here - I have a Shire cross baby to break this spring - steering might be the LEAST of our worries!!! Good luck finding another barn without lunatics.

I finally fixed my website!! Check it out at:
http://www.geocities.com/highlandglenva/HighlandGlen.html?1075309175001

vxf111

Jan. 28, 2004, 08:23 PM

Why would you want to board at a place like that anyway? Good riddance and here's hoping you find a fabulous place soon with 2 empty stalls next to each other http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

teal tea

Jan. 28, 2004, 09:22 PM

Good luck finding another barn. I think you will be happier at a barn that treats everyone equally, I mean who needs to deal w/ ill tempered people w/ bad Karma. You're supposed to enjoy riding, whether you show or not.
My barn has a rule that you cannot jump w/o a trainer watching you. I think it's a great idea (for safety reasons). If I happen to be in the ring while there is a lesson I always stop what I'm doing and give the person jumping the right of way. If I were at a barn that let anyone jump whenever, I would expect that person to call out their lines, and I would give them the right of way. I'm lucky b/c there are times when my barn is not full at all. I try to go whenever there are not that many people, unless I have a lesson. I do enjoy other people riding w/ me, but I don't want a crowd. In any case, I wish you well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fullmoon fever

Jan. 28, 2004, 10:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dusty:
A couple thoughts...

1. slc - after reading all your posts about theraputic riding, you are the last person I would think would be so harsh on someone who is just trying to enjoy her horse. I can't say anything nice about your post, so won't say anything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Don't her posts make you feel all warm and fuzzy and dying to volunteer if she gets her place going?

GiantPony - Best of luck in finding a new place. Sounds like the old one surely chewed gristle. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Founder of the Olde Farte Clique; Member of the Dented Thigh Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
If it ain't tack shopping, it's a waste of time and money.

dressager

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:03 AM

As the near victim of someone not calling a jump (and YES- I WAS watching where I was going- the jump was set up in an odd fashion)... LINES need to be called!

I see both sides too- and there is NO NEED to get snippy and rude, slc. As a rider at a barn where I am one of the more serious riders, I do try to ride without a few others who do ride without a rhyme or reason, so to speak... but I also accept that if I am riding with someone who is not serious, I may need to make some adjustments and get on with life. You just do not say something like that to someone. Period. The rider who is feeling inconvienced needs to change HER schedule or whatever she feels she needs to do to make her ride worthwhile. That's really not the concern here, the concern is that you are BOTH paying the SAME amount of $$$ and while she shows, that does NOT give her any more right of way to the ring. I would wonder why the barn owner would give into her- is she aiming to have a show barn? Just wondering.

Good luck with your problem- you sound like someone I would like to ride with! I am a devout dressage rider and find that some of the people are bit too "know it all-ish" for my taste- I much prefer the people of other disciplines... believe me, it IS possible to ride and not make nasty comments and be a know it all! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dressager (http://www.geocities.com/lubenkafarm)
You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

shiloh

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:24 AM

Yikes! Giantpony - You are better off out of there. I like your current attitude of move forward. I hope you find someplace nice to enjoy 2 horses.

I was just thinking - I always thought that the better riders were supposed to get out of the way of the poorer riders, them having the skill to do so. Am I wrong?

Also, I always ask if it's okay if I ride in - even when it's someone I know. Their horse could be having a crappy day or mine could be a pill and the other rider doesn't want to deal with it. Either way, it's a courtesy to ask first.

tcgelec

Jan. 29, 2004, 04:40 AM

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And, interestingly enough....

It seems that slc started a thread over on the dressage formum:

"What's the rudest thing you ever heard a dressage rider say"

As has been said before, it's only a job if you'd rather be doing something else.

slc2

Jan. 29, 2004, 04:53 AM

my point is this: if you are so experienced and know so well how to ride, the problem would never have happened. you would have seen that girl coming from a mile off and avoided her like the plague and she would have plopped blissfully around and nothing would have blown up in your face.

there's always one in every barn, sometimes there are 3 or 4. you stay away from them, that's all, you just stay away from them.

criticize me all you want, i stand by my original feeling on this one. you have to stay away from the troublemakers, and if you are so experienced, you know how, you see them coming from a mile off, and you handle them with aplomb.

sascha

Jan. 29, 2004, 05:03 AM

Awesome slc - I'm moving into the stable that you are at and run rampant all over the place not letting you get a moments peace when you would like to get some work done in the arena.

I'll borrow the big ol' Dutch horse I used to ride who's favourite games were bumper cars and scare the bejeesus out of the other horse by threatening a head on collision. I never had so much fun on a horse in my life. Of course I played with other people and horses who enjoyed the same games but this could be a new challenge and a new form of delightful entertainment.

There is NO excuse for being a RUDE arena hog! And walking on egg shells every time one shows up is not a solution.

giantpony - I'm so sorry that you are having to go through all of this. There really is no excuse for such behaviour and it's appalling that the BM sided with the spoilt brat. Good luck at your new place - it HAS to be friendlier!

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
The cold isn't so bad as long as you dress for it...yeah, make sure to wear your car.

Alagirl

Jan. 29, 2004, 06:40 AM

Girls, get off SLC's case...(not that she needed my support)

I didn't like her post either, but guessing she was trying to show the other side of the medal...

And don't knock the Dressage world, granted, DQs ruin it for all, but if all would take it up as the basics, the world would only be better!

Giantpony, I am totaly floored! A half strike and you're out? Souns like the lesson Princess needs another stall for a nother horse to be selected by the trainer?

Hope you find a nice place where you don't have to brave blizzards in the outdoor to plow around (sorry, couldn't help myself http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

You should find a draft fan with a four-in-one hitch and have him come over, with all the bells and whistles: *Oh, I am just looking at a couple of horses, Princess, Hope you don't mind, get that skinny nag out of the ring, I need it now!* http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Talk Spotted Dogs
http://pub31.ezboard.com/fdalmatianplantationmessageboardfrm1

Amy

Jan. 29, 2004, 07:35 AM

I disagree slc- if this girl is jumping and showing in the A's then she TOO can learn to negotiate an arena without causing problems. Also if she jumps a line eratically it IS her responsibility to call the line. Maybe because you are mostly involved with dressage you don't understand that IS common etiquite.

I run a boarding facility and give low level lessons. I have no problem bringing a rider to task if they DON'T call the line. And if in not calling a line they almost cause a collision OR the other rider has to halt then I really come unglued. There is no reason to not THINK when you are on a horse. There are enough ways already to get hurt or killed.

The WRITTEN policy in my boarding agreement is that the arena is for riding. Not for one person but for all. They have to cooperate- and it works fairly well. I even have some folks that are working vey green horses and when the want to canter the other riders will move to the center of the arena- if I had a rider like you mentioned she would not last long at my place!

giantpony

Jan. 29, 2004, 07:50 AM

slc, you're probably right. The whole scene is likely my fault. Im not sure why my mind reading powers failed me, how do you keep yours so sharp?

I dont believe in running away from bullies. If you allow yourself to be bullied all your life, then eventually all that resentment has to overflow somewhere, perhaps in a place you deem safe, perhaps somewhere like a public BB?

I would ask that everyone get off slc's case and just treat them as bullies should be treated... and ignore their posts. Obviously they have different experiences than many of us and everyone's opinion is valuable, sometimes you just have to look harder and think longer to see the value.

And good luck with your therapeutic riding program slc, I hope you find the fufillment and happiness you are so obviously searching for. If there's anything you'd like to know about running a therapeutic riding program, feel free to ask, I've been a volunteer instructor for about 15 years. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It can be very fufilling, especially if you have some way of coping with the inevitable burn out that occurs.

Im off to see more boarding facilities *crosses fingers* http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CB/TB

Jan. 29, 2004, 09:01 AM

Hopefully, the rider who thought she was too important to use common courtesy will find herself riding with someone even more rude than she is! And, at that rate, the barn manager will find herself with an empty barn if she keeps evicting people . You're probably better off finding a place with REAL horsemen, who think of their horses, as you do, as partners and best friends , not as a way to fill up a wall with ribbons. Your money is just as green as hers . She seems to have skipped a step in her training- courtesy. Hope you and your girl find that great place.

onetempies

Jan. 29, 2004, 09:28 AM

Amy... totally agree.

I've had greenies myself and totally understand the lack of power steering & "brake" concept. So if I'm schooling my mare with others on their greenies, I let them have the wall & I stay to the center.

GP... good luck in your search! Pleasee keep us posted! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
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Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
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Chev 7.5 months, blurry, but acting studly (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312254841657978703941.jpg)

Lambie Boat

Jan. 29, 2004, 10:16 AM

SLC, why are you such a dick?

AWIP

Jan. 29, 2004, 10:58 AM

I remember when the rule was ... the person doing the more advanced/faster work was the one responsible for looking out for others in the ring & left to left (or right to right) only.

None of this faster/lateral work gets the rail. Who was responsible for turning the ring into a roller rink? If you couldn't maneuver through the other riders at a trot/canter whatever. In my experience, the "faster/lateral gets priority" rule has resulted in more crashes and people coming barreling up behind someone trotting screaming "Rail" and then crashing into you becuase you didn't move over because they had the right of way?

Who the heck decided riders could see through the back of their helmets and came up with this one anyway????

Eomer

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:07 AM

I've been reading this thread trying to just bite my lip but I have to say I'm sorry you've been placed in such awfull circmstances. Whenever people are thrown randomly into situations like a barn there are often "favored fellows" that worm their way into some position of priority. I can't believe it went as far as it did but ... you'll be better off when the dust settles. When she insulted your horse you should have put on a big inocent smile and said, "You went to that Carnegie Charm School ... didn't you?" And don't let slc get to you, she was and abused child.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
my point is this: ... , i stand by my original feeling on this one. you have to stay away from the troublemakers, and if you are so experienced, you know how, you see them coming from a mile off, and you handle them with aplomb.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BS! That wasn't the tennor of your original post at all!

"The fool on the hill"

[This message was edited by Eomer on Jan. 29, 2004 at 05:39 PM.]

PlusTax

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:13 AM

Wow SLC, you called my a selfish brat last week when I was simply asking for suggestions on how to be nicer to someone and then you call giantpony selfish for getting kicked out of the barn... Well I think you're being incredibly selfish by thrusting your nasty opinions on someone who just wants advise and always managing to ruin peaceful threads.

giantpony- that's really not fair but you'll be much better off at another barn. This is just a blessing in diguise. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**Kelsey**
&
**Plus Tax**

See my HORSES (http://community.webshots.com/user/jrhntrpavi) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And I have a LIFE (http://community.webshots.com/user/RhodesKelsey) too! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[This message was edited by PlusTax on Jan. 29, 2004 at 04:00 PM.]

dogchushu

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
my point is this: if you are so experienced and know so well how to ride, the problem would never have happened. you would have seen that girl coming from a mile off and avoided her like the plague and she would have plopped blissfully around and nothing would have blown up in your face.

there's always one in every barn, sometimes there are 3 or 4. you stay away from them, that's all, you just stay away from them.

criticize me all you want, i stand by my original feeling on this one. you have to stay away from the troublemakers, and if you are so experienced, you know how, you see them coming from a mile off, and you handle them with aplomb.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want to be part of a "pile on," I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that unless you stay out of the way of everyone and anyone regardless of how crazed they are in the arena you deserve to be kicked out of the barn?

I must be reading something wrong.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

jilltx

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:27 AM

Good luck in your search for a new barn, Giantpony. I have only read page 1 and page 5 (extreme laziness factor kicking in today!) but I think that everyone deserves courtesy and respect. YOU deserve a better barn!! As another poster said, "a blessing in disguise!!"!!

And for the record...I was taught to ALWAYS call your line when you're jumping in a ring with other people. It's just common (or UNcommon) courtesy and good manners to do so!!

~Jilltx
http://doobage.redirectme.net/horses/kelly2.jpg

"Fat bottomed girls you make the rockin' world go 'round" ~ Freddie Mercury "Queen"

Nylar

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:38 AM

I'd take a crop to any of my students if they acted like that. We've had a couple minor incidents with people being rude, but with only one arena, everyone has to learn to share. I even let people ride in the ring while I'm doing lessons if they ask nicely. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

giantpony, I'm so sorry that you had to encounter a situation like that, but like many others have said, I have a feeling you'll be better off in another barn.

Magnolia

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:42 AM

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifBefore you leave....
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifto really make a statement
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gifteach your sweet plow horse
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhow to jump!

I used to jump a full draft and he loffed to knock over jumps and break them....it would teach a lesson.

Honestly, good luck with a new barn, and I hope that lady's horse bucks her off at the next show! And please give your sweet little draftie a big hug and carrots from me!

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Rifter

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:57 AM

Come on guys, cut SLC a break. She comes from a discipline where your eyes are supposed to be trained on your horse's neck at ALL times while you're riding in an arena. So dressagers obviously have developed mental telepathy in order to deal with others in the ring. It really is just another way hunter/jumpers are evolutionarily behind dressage riders. Once we've honed our mental telepathy like the dressage riders, we too can abandon looking ahead and just stare constantly at our horse's necks to monitor their carriage http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

*-Rifter-*
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse and the Disgruntled College Student Cliques

lilblackhorse

Jan. 29, 2004, 11:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rifter:
Come on guys, cut SLC a break. She comes from a discipline where your eyes are supposed to be trained on your horse's neck at ALL times while you're riding in an arena. So dressagers obviously have developed mental telepathy in order to deal with others in the ring. It really is just another way hunter/jumpers are evolutionarily behind dressage riders. Once we've honed our mental telepathy like the dressage riders, we too can abandon looking ahead and just stare constantly at our horse's necks to monitor their carriage http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

*-Rifter-*
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse and the Disgruntled College Student Cliques<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL...and you win extra points for the use of the new word "evolutionarily" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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slc2

Jan. 29, 2004, 12:03 PM

that's baloney, no dressage people are told to look at the neck. if they do it's because they're beginners or nervous - give 'em a break.

and my point is NOT that the other rider wasn't acting like a complete idiot. she was. she was acting like a complete moron and throwing her weight around her little pond. and that's not just annoying, it's pitiful.

but...there are two sides to every argument, and if she came in here, she'd say just about what i said, and you all would be sympathizing with her TOO.

in fact, a number of you have. without knowing it, you've sympathized with the two complainants of one conflict, more than a half a dozen times in the past year, and never even known it. because each person's version of the story was so different that you never even realized it was the same conflict that you had sided with the OTHER side a few weeks before.

it's all in who's telling the tale, that's what colors the tale.

we did that in the dressage forum, a girl wrote about 10 case histories, worded 'her way' and asked, ''is this abuse?'' and i took every single one of them, reworded them, gave them a little bit different color, and all of a sudden they were seen in a completely different light.

and no. the other girl wasn't right. not by any long shot. i don't expect any of you to see what i mean...but i will bet any amount of money that given the right wording, you'd be all over sympathizing with the other girl if she came in here and told ''her side of the story''. it really all depends on who's doing the talking.

and that is what every single complainant in here needs to - at some point - realize. that there are two sides to every argument, and until you start to see the other side of the argument, you will NEVER be able to handle the problems in your life in an effective way.

you all can give all the sympathy in the world - and you will NEVER change that. ever.

CuriousGeorge

Jan. 29, 2004, 12:41 PM

"Evolutionarily" really is a word. Not like "indepthly". "Indepthly" is only a word that can be used on internet bbs to describe how one has studied conformation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Glad to clarify for you.

giantpony

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:00 PM

slc, You have a point. It's true that I only gave my side of the story, that's the only side *I* can be sure of. I can imagine what her side may well be, but without having a real in depth chat with the person about how she felt and what she perceived was happening, I cannot be sure I would tell it correctly.

I can imagine perhaps she had some important (to her) show and maybe she felt her and her horse weren't quite ready. I can imagine at that time of day (an unusual one for her to be at the barn) that she had to make some sort of special arrangements to get there and was bummed about it.

I can imagine that she arrived at the barn and quick tacked up so she could spend as much time schooling as possible before she had to run off to work, school, a therapy appointment, whatever. I can imagine she was hoping to have the whole arena to herself and was disappointed when she found it occupied, Im sure that upset her. (In her mind she might think, "Afterall I had to do to get here today to get in extra practise, someone has the nerve to be screwing around in the arena"). I can imagine that perhaps if your schooling plan was not to warm up your horse by walking when its - 15 F and just get right to work, you might behave as she did.

I can imagine if it was a jumper show she was practising for (this gets tougher to actually imagine, but I'll keep going) that maybe she thought she would try jumping random jumps, so her horse couldn't anticipate the next and perhaps even work on very tight inside turns.

I can also imagine that maybe if you're a little frantic anyhow, that jumping in an arena with someone else watching and that other person is riding a horse that's the same height but twice your horse's weight might be intimidating.

However, my imagination breaks down when it comes to being impolite and insulting the other person's horse. I can never imagine the situation that might've brought that on.

I also cannot imagine going to the BM after finding out that person will only be another 10 minutes. I cannot imagine a BM siding with a person like this (Obviously there's more to the story thats unknown to even me) and evicting a person, even if it WAS there fault (which I dont buy).

That is one of the million possible explanations, maybe she was beaten by her father that day, maybe she had PMS, maybe she's an impolite snot that thinks the world revolves around her and has tantrums on a regular basis, maybe, maybe...

However, we'll never know. Somehow, being rude and impolite are not good conductors to effective communication, but Im positive you know that.

In my original post, I was not asking for anyone to sympathize with me, I specifically asked, "Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?? Am I missing something??" and I said I didnt understand the situation and I was hopeful that someone would shed some light on it.

That aside, I checked my boarding agreement and this is the exact wording from the agreement.
"All riders (boarders, part boarders, students, anyone mounted on horseback) are permitted to use the riding facilities (indoor arena, outdoor rind, round pen, fields and hacking trails) at their own risk. The regulation of usage of the facilities will not be monitored by the establishment. Riders are expected to share the facilities equally. If a dispute arises regarding right-of-way, the person that arrived first into the facility naturally has right-of-way and can enforce this for up to 20 minutes, while the other person involved in the dispute waits or uses a different facility. This right-of-way is waived if there are 2 or more persons waiting to use the facility."

Another part of that same section,
"Persons entering an enclosed riding area (indoor arena or outdoor ring) are required to alert any rider already in the riding area and wait for verification to open doors and gates. This is to prevent any horses with less experienced rider aboard from leaving the riding area."

I suppose after I load my mare on the trailer, that I will hand over a copy of the boarding agreement with some relevent parts highlighted.

On a better note, one of the facilities I saw today, looks very nice, is a very limited show barn, seems to have more older (over 20) riders, but they wont have a stall available until March 1. I have one more to see, but if it doesnt work out, Im going to see if I can convince them to let me pasture board (they dont offer it)for a month, and I'll agree to do whatever extra work that it would cause them. If I get really pinched, I can move my mare about 1.5 hours away to a friend's place for a month, but I'd really rather avoid going so far, if I can.

jilltx

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:09 PM

SLC...my Dad always told me there was one in every crowd. I guess he was right.

~Jilltx
http://doobage.redirectme.net/horses/kelly2.jpg

"Fat bottomed girls you make the rockin' world go 'round" ~ Freddie Mercury "Queen"

ChocoMare

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:14 PM

Kudos to you GiantPony for handling SLC's rude, snotty and derogatory posts with such tact, diplomacy and "aplomb." You are a credit to your parents who obviously taught you to be courteous, kind and considerate.

I hope that this new barn will work with/for you. Sounds like a better match.

If you're ever in the west Georgia area, do bring your draft around. I'll be getting an 18hh Percheron mare in a month to join my App mare and you can come play in our new trail club. No snobs, bratty kids or DQs to deal with. Just us average folks who love anything on four hooves that whinnies.

Ride on!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sandy M

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:18 PM

Ah, Giantpony, you probably are better off if they are such jerks (management included!). You don't want to lower yourself to their level, but it must have been tempting to say, "Plow horse? How dare you speak so of your Dumblood's cousin?" or was she riding a TB?!? Darn, another good comeback blown out of the water.

Best of luck in finding a new, more congenial place.

As for slc, consider the source. And of COURSE, she stares at the neck. She just defined what kind of people do, and we were aware of that......

foursocks

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:20 PM

Giantpony, you seem like a very sensible person. Hopefully the promising barn turns out to be a keeper.

SLC, I hesitate to get into a brain-off here, but...although your logic is sound, when one thinks back to many of your posts it seems as if you often *don't* see the whole picture, you tend to simply attack the original poster. There is a difference between a) trying to be fairminded when reading a post and b) simply assuming that person is ignorant/selfish/immature/wrong/whatever and it is in fact the other person involved, who is the unheard-from subject of the post, who is to be pitied/sympathised with/whatever.

Yes, there are two, three or sometimes one hundred different sides to every story. That doesn't mean that whoever is telling the version you hear is a liar or exaggerating. As giantpony has very carefully explained several times, she was treated in a way which not only angered her, but insulted her and got her kicked out of her barn! That's pretty serious stuff, and if the truth was totally different- that she ran over the BO's dog on purpose and stole all of the grain- and someone else came on here and gave us that evidence, well, then there would be cause to doubt the original story. But in the absence of anything like that, when one reads a post from a reasonable-sounding person with a problem, it isn't going to let loose the plague or cause the stock market to crash to give that person a little sympathy and support- and the benefit of the doubt.

Sheesh. Grow up.

You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil

bigbay

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CuriousGeorge:
"Evolutionarily" really is a word. Not like "indepthly". "Indepthly" is only a word that can be used on internet bbs to describe how one has studied conformation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Glad to clarify for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And most people who study it "indepthly" have also studied it "ineptly." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Warmheart

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:30 PM

Giantpony, Count your blessings for leaving. I finally got around to reading the whole thread and found when you read your boarding contract. GOOD ! I own a facility and have for the last 20 years. I have boarders that have been with me as long as 14 years. Dealing with people does get challenging at times, everyone comes with their own individual "attitude baggage" but that doesnot give this rider the right to be a "Water Retaining Sea Cow" . I hope when the BO/BM realizes that the barn is empty except for that one rider ( all others will probably be turned off by the partiality) That maybe they made a BIG MISTAKE. They should realize that it is better to cater to group as a whole than to let the whole cater to one(no matter how much they pad that wallet) Good Luck !!

Never claim to be an expert !! "EX" is something past and "SPERT" is a drip under pressure !!

Pol

Jan. 29, 2004, 01:58 PM

I am so outraged by the initial story here I cannot speak. Who in the H*** do they think they are? PLOWHORSE??????? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
Yet another reason I stick with eventers. eeeek When I calm down I will read this whole thread!

lilblackhorse

Jan. 29, 2004, 02:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by giantpony:
before she had to run off to work, school, a therapy appointment,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great post Giant. You have hit the nail on the head. Once again, it comes down to common courtesy- you were there first, and you have the written boarding agreement showing that you were MORE than fair in saying to her "I'll be out in 10 minutes if you need the ring to yourself." Therapy appointment, indeed http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Personally? I'd highlight the boarding contract and have my attorney send it to her-especially if you have a friend who'd just write up something to scare the crap out of the BO. How dare this woman actually buy into jumperqueen's tantrum http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And SLC? You are a piece of work on this one. Those ones that you say you just stay away from? I bet YOU are that person. No wonder why you don't have to share an arena with anyone http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Bumpkin

Jan. 29, 2004, 02:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by giantpony:

Apparently, she didnt like this idea. She stomped out of the arena, got the barn manager and came back. The barn manager, to my horror, came and talked to me, "you know this rider has a show on the weekend and needs to practise, she really needs the whole arena, you're not practising for any shows or doing anything important, you need to leave, maybe ride in the outdoor ring".

I was stunned. #1, I was in there FIRST. #2, since when does one person become more important than another. #3, I was trying to be reasonable and share (Ive shown h/j before, I can manage to stay out of their way!) #4, how can anyone have the nerve to decide whether what Im doing is important or not??

I told her, "I'll be done in about 10 minutes, she's welcome to share with me during that time, or if she'd rather have it to herself I'll only be 10 minutes." Maybe this was rude?

The end... I found an "eviction" notice on my stall door this morning, mostly saying that since Im not willing to "be a team player", Im no longer welcome here. Team player, what the heck?!

I tried talking to the barn manager and she said her hands are tied in this matter and agrees the other rider had the "Right of way".

Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?? Am I missing something?? (I never once raised my voice or said anything nasty, outside my head, that is!)

I guess I'll find a new facility... I dont want to stay where there is this insanity... but I dont really "get" the situation either.

HELP?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is just so ridiculous. I think you are better off leaving. If they are going to be so petty and silly, they aren't worthy of your hard earned money.
The more I get back into the Horses, the more downright stupid stuff I see and hear.
Good Luck.

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

canterlope

Jan. 29, 2004, 02:54 PM

Giantpony, you inspire me to be a better person.

SLC, you don't.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They say cats have nine lives. They would settle for one good one. Adopt a cat (or dog) today.

Applesauce

Jan. 29, 2004, 03:13 PM

Giantpony: I hope you find a new barn and one with a more friendlier atmosphere. While pulling my horse out of the driveway, I would highlight that area of the boarding contract you mentioned and hand it right over to the BM, the snotty girl, and the BO. Just like you mentioned. Leave them thinking about that!

Support Wildlife...throw a party!

evenstar

Jan. 29, 2004, 04:32 PM

Wow, it was just this type of idiocy on the part of people running at jumps (by no means can what she was doing be considered as schooling over fences) that sent my poor little DQ self to a western barn (because they had this HUGE ring and there were NO JUMPS!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif
Let's just say that I discovered other reasons why that was not one of my better decisions (and it has nothing to do with western vs english riding).
My current BO tries periodically to recondition me to be rational about people jumping if I'm riding in the ring, but it's a hard row for her to hoe, and there's so much else to work on!

When I was a working student, we always had to call out when we were about to enter the indoor, and to this day, I even speak up when I'm approaching our outdoor ring, because the horses can hear something coming before they can see who it is. (Though I don't expect others to do that - the deer in the woods don't usually call out, either)

My first thought was that this person was probably aiming for you, hoping to force you to give up and leave. After six pages, I haven't changed my mind about that.

Hope you have good luck finding another boarding situation where the people aren't so full of ...um...themselves.

Dusty

Jan. 29, 2004, 04:44 PM

canterlope....you put it perfectly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*Ride and let ride...*

onetempies

Jan. 29, 2004, 05:10 PM

I have definitely learned to NOT drink or eat anything while reading this thread.

Wish I was as good at thinking of comebacks like some of you are! I'm slow in that respect.

GP... you are handling this with real grace! In the end, you'll be better off... as will your drafty. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Owned by LT Parfait 1985 Arab Mare, Valboa's Mercedes 1991 Holsteiner/TB cross, and L Chevelle 2003 Holsteiner colt.
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004193796910058858134.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jan/2004191087185574605344.jpg)
Boy with an attitude at 7 months & arab with no ears (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258578373322938620.jpg)
Chev 7 month butt shot & Parfait (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Dec/200312258180889950365790.jpg)
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HunterUnderSaddle

Jan. 29, 2004, 05:47 PM

As repeated by other posters, I'm glad you are leaving that place. If they had didn't ask you to leave, I would have recommended it to ya! There are far better places to board at where there are no bitchy riders.

dogchushu

Jan. 29, 2004, 06:18 PM

I had a lesson tonight and I asked my trainer what she'd say if I told her that someone else was in the indoor, I needed to get ready for an important show and I wanted her to make them leave.

She didn't miss a beat, she said "I'd tell you to build your own damn indoor." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

SBT

Jan. 29, 2004, 06:19 PM

GiantPony, welcome to the elite clique of horsepeople who have been evicted for "failure to obey imaginary rules."
I hate to say it, but it happened to me too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif In my case, a rule was posted that no one was allowed to jump without a trainer present. So one day I was riding, wanted to jump, and asked A trainer if she would watch me. Sure, no problem. BO storms in the arena and proceeds to rip me a new one for jumping without MY trainer present. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif I say I had asked the other trainer to watch me. BO asked other trainer if that was true. Other trainer said, "NO." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif So I get reamed some more...all in front of a family that was waiting to try a pony the BO had for sale. At the end of her tirade, the BO told me I was to stand in the center of the arena while her customers tried the pony. Being an idiot 16 y/o, I did. I stood there for 20 minutes until they were done. BO said, "Okay, you can trot your horse around once to warm up, then jump that crossrail." I did. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif BO said, "Now you can leave the ring." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Got a call from my trainer that night telling me the BO wanted me gone, yesterday.

What's REALLY sick is that this BO is also an "A" circuit trainer, sort of a local BNT, AND an "R" judge. Up until that point, she had been generally pleasant to me.

Point is, *I* was a paying boarder, too. I had every right to be where I was and, per the WRITTEN RULES, doing what I was doing. But someone needed to be crucified that day, and I was it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif People are just really, really sick.

In your case, I think it would be great to make copies of that blurb from your boarding agreement, and hang them in several conspicuous places...including the arena wall AND the psychobitch rider's horse's stall. You know. Just so everyone is REAL clear who broke the rules. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'm sorry you had to go through this. I know how maddening it is. But trust me when I say you WILL be better off elsewhere! I certainly was. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

equestrielle

Jan. 29, 2004, 06:40 PM

I feel very lucky when I read the stories that come up on this board.

I hope the family that was buying that pony from the facist barn owner at least noticed how she treated you! Good grief.

It must be awful for you Giantpony to be at that barn now with all those bad feelings. Hope you find someplace better soon. It sounds like a very bad place to be.

MyShadeOfPink

Jan. 29, 2004, 06:47 PM

Good luck Giantpony!! It sounds like you'll be at a much better match!!

It's like an uprising in here

edited for typo

Jennie
"all these lines fall short of what i had in mind
a failed attempt to capsulize a feeling
so i just try fail and try and try again"
See my albulm Updated 11/11 (http://community.webshots.com/user/myshadeofpink)

Prairie

Jan. 29, 2004, 07:38 PM

Giantpony - I'm sorry you were treated so rudely and unfairly by these people. I hope you and your horse find the barn of your dreams soon.

horsegirl33

Jan. 29, 2004, 08:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
criticize me all you want, i stand by my original feeling on this one. you have to stay away from the troublemakers, and if you are so experienced, you know how, you see them coming from a mile off, and you handle them with aplomb.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hence....I think why everyone is steering clear of slc... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif we're all "experienced" enough to "stay away from the troublemakers" and we can "see them coming from a mile off"... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

***God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses***

~~member of the Chicken Jumper Clique (AND PROUD OF IT!!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, IHSA clique & only child clique~~

olympicprincess

Jan. 29, 2004, 08:48 PM

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I have a little experience on the OTHER SIDE. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

There's been a barn rule, request actually, by my barn owner/mgr that the 4 or 5 days prior to my leaving for an event the jumps I have set up are NOT to be moved. She overheard me gripping once that I wished people wouldn't have to move EVERY jump out of the large outdoor everyday, couldn't they leave a few up??!!
She also asks that no one ride during my lessons...again, this is her and not me asking (although it is VERY appreciated! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif), but seeing as she has the "power" over the boarders, her word goes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Obviously I am the ONLY jumper at the barn and one of 3 that show.

I am not evil, I did not stomp & whine, it just happened this way. I have told other boarders this, while admitting that I do like it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Perhaps they got the impression that you were going out of your way to be IN THE WAY of the lady? I could see that as being very upsetting.

LoriO

Jan. 29, 2004, 09:42 PM

GP, that is just ridiculous!! Definately make a copy of the barn contract with the parts highlightes showing you were in the right and hand them to BM as you leave. You do not need to put up with that kind of crap.

I don't care if you are an olympic champion or a rank beginner, everyone needs to know proper ring etiquette and follow it! There are only 4 of us at the barn I am at. The oldest daughter and I are very strict with the two younger girls about proper ring etiquette. While they may not really need it at home, there are plenty of times at shows and at 4H camp that they will need to know it.

I have learned to always skip SLC's post when I read because I have yet to read anything from her that has been worthwhile. I can see that I was wise to stick to that once again.

__________________________________________________ __________
**"You are under arrest for operating your mouth under the influence of
ignorance!" MPD Officer Beck
**"Member of the COTH Law Enforcement clique!"
**"Member of the Western clique"

DoubleTwistedWire

Jan. 29, 2004, 10:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by olympicprincess:
I haven't read all the responses yet, but I have a little experience on the OTHER SIDE. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

There's been a barn rule, request actually, by my barn owner/mgr that the 4 or 5 days prior to my leaving for an event the jumps I have set up are NOT to be moved. She overheard me gripping once that I wished people wouldn't have to move EVERY jump out of the large outdoor everyday, couldn't they leave a few up??!!
She also asks that no one ride during my lessons...again, this is her and not me asking (although it is VERY appreciated! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif), but seeing as she has the "power" over the boarders, her word goes. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a big difference between not riding during someone else's lesson, which I don't think anyone here would have such an issue with, and being able to share a schooling space. In this instance, neither rider was having a lesson, and the simple fact that the other rider was "schooling" for a show does not make it more important.

There's no earthly reason that both these riders couldn't have shared the same space. Even if the OP had (wittingly or not) gotten in the jumping rider's way, the jumper could have handled it in a better manner. From what the OP said, she did everything according to barn policy, and had just as much right to work on walking and steering with her greenie (regardless of breed) as the other rider had to come in and jump.

Two Toofs

Jan. 30, 2004, 04:04 AM

Send little show princess to the racetrack. I guarantee you her first instance of failing to call "ho back" in the shedrow would be her last. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

And Lord help her if she weren't to follow rules of courtesy (i.e., safety) on the track itself..... one little time...... there ain't no "steering clear" 'round these parts...... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Rifter

Jan. 30, 2004, 04:17 AM

Hahaha Two Toofs. Amen. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

*-Rifter-*
Proud Member of the Dirty Grey Horse and the Disgruntled College Student Cliques

ejm

Jan. 30, 2004, 07:30 AM

Amen, Two Toofs. I'd love to see a few of the indoor arena - horse show princesses out on a racetrack where everyone has a job to do and expects them to do theirs too. Maybe we could get one of the networks interested in the concept for a new "reality show"?

Heather

Jan. 30, 2004, 08:45 AM

I've already stated I think the way giantpony was treated is outrageous.

That being said, I'm a little mystified about why you are all screaming for slc's blood. How many threads here have we read about people not taking personal repsonsibility for things which happen in their lives? It strikes me that slc is one of the few people I've ever met who takes total responsibility for everything going on her life. She's never said, poor me, she's never felt vicitmized, she's never done anything but been focused on a goal and heading towards it. The way she faces the world is to say, X happened and was bad, what did I do to contribute to X and how can I prevent X from happening again. She is more willing to change herself, than other people.

Most of us, including me, can't live that way--becauase it's so much easier to be a victim. So it's not an slc is right and everyone else is wrong, or vice versa, it's just a different way of looking at the world.

I don't agree with everyhting she says, heck, I don't agree with a lot of what she says, but it is RARE that her posts don't make me think, REALLY think, about a topic from another angle. And it's rare that I don't try to think about her world view when I'm performing a debrief on something in my life has gone wrong, and I'm trying to figure out why.

My take is, things happen for a reason, and we can create negative patterns in our lives without realizing it. I went through a period in my 20s where I had several major ugly breakups with besst friends. I spent some time saying, why do all the crazy people come into my life and screw it up. Being the victim. But when I began to see how I was contributing to the pattern that brought these people into my life, and how I was enabling the relationships and the breakups, only then was I able to stop the pattern. It wasn't my "fault" but it was part of a greater pattern I was creating. The people involved were nuts and nasty, but that didn't absolve me from seeing what I had done to create the pattern.

slc sees these patterns all the time. If you don't, or don't want to, that's fine, but I don't think it's fair to flame her for seeing things differently.

I took slc's post as saying, basically, there are difficult people everywhere, and you need to learn how to work around the nutjobs, or you are never going to be comfortable and happy anywhere. That's not the same as saying giantpony is at "fault", nor is it the same as saying the other person is anything other than a flaming jerk (and on track for a real unpleasant ride on the karma train), but it is saying, hey, this happenend, and it may happen again . . . how will you deal with it next time so that maybe you won't get the short end of the crap stick?

Saying something is "unfair" is fine, but that and a bus token get's you to CHicago. The question is, what will you do the next time a jerky horsperson (not exactly a rare breed) gets in your face?

Maybe this pattern is about giantpony more honestly evaluating the type of place she wants to baord at, maybe it's about her really listening to her gut about the attitudes and behavior of other folks in a prospective barn. It doesn't make the other people less of jerks, but there is always a deeper pattern.

dogchushu

Jan. 30, 2004, 09:46 AM

I guess it's the point that the other rider expected her to leave the ring that gets to most people.

Hey, if the original post had said that the other rider complained that GiantPony was getting in her way, I would have said "hey, even if she's not calling her jumps--which is bad--you could probably still work around her. Sure, it's not fair or right, but can be done."

However, the other rider didn't want GiantPony working around her. She wanted her out of the ring.

So, when slc says "you should take responsibility for your actions and try to avoid making it an issue with this person" how the heck could that be done without just, well, leaving the ring?

slc gave all kinds of ways to avoid the other rider--but that's not what she wanted. She wanted GiantPony out of the ring.

I'm sorry. I guess giving in to a bully is a way to avoid conflict. But not one I'd recommend.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

chaotic mind

Jan. 30, 2004, 09:51 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Heather:

I took slc's post as saying, basically, there are difficult people everywhere, and you need to learn how to work around the nutjobs, or you are never going to be comfortable and happy anywhere. That's not the same as saying giantpony is at "fault", nor is it the same as saying the other person is anything other than a flaming jerk (and on track for a real unpleasant ride on the karma train), but it is saying, hey, this happenend, and it may happen again . . . how will you deal with it next time so that maybe you won't get the short end of the crap stick?

[QUOTE]

Okay maybe is is just a regional thing but in the places where I have lived when someone starts out something with "You need to learn...." whatever follows is considered to be a repremand.

and this statement in SLC's subsequent post seems to further at least the appearance that she feels GP is at fault.

"my point is this: if you are so experienced and know so well how to ride, the problem would never have happened."

Just thought I would clear up your apparent confusion.

The real point of GP's original post is the behaviour of the Barn Manager after the incident. Which was unprofessional and basically a diservice to both riders as the one doing the jumping has now learned that tantrums do pay off. Though I have a feeling she may already know that, for her at least, it is true.

"Difficult people are a gift for they give you a chance to practice patience and tolerence" I need to get off the gift list

Ride'emCO

Jan. 30, 2004, 10:26 AM

I GUARANTEE that if the situation was reversed and it was Miss Snotty-Snot on a three-year-old, she would have reamed you a new one for not calling your jumps, and for scaring her Greenie. Some people's sense of entitlement is just WAY too healthy. She'll get hers, and you'll be better off not surrounded by lunatics!

Moesha

Jan. 30, 2004, 10:58 AM

Great Post Chaotic Mind,
Dwelling on someone's bad behavior is never going to help you. There is nothing you can do about people who act for lack of a better word.....ridiculous.

The remarks were rude and just plain stupid and show a real lack of maturity on anyone's part who would make such comments to someone....again lack of class regardless of any level or discipline.

The barn manager was completey unprofessional..but is only human..the best thing to do is let thigsg like this slide unless they afffect you to the point you and your horse are compromised in some way..then leave...spend your time and money somewhere where it will be appreciated and your concerns and cares met.

Never let one persons stupid behavior cloud your view of anyone, anyplace, or anything.

Ride'emCO

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:03 AM

Slightly OT, but can we please resist the urge to stereotype people of other riding disciplines? It's actually part of what GP is having trouble with at her now former barn...she is no less important because she trail rides, and doesn't currently show.

So it's not a "Dressage Thing", or a "Hunter Thing" or an "Eventer Thing" - not all members of every discipline are the same. I have done some dressage, some eventing, a lot of Hunter and Jumper, and I have met snotty know-it-alls and rude wenches in every sport.

Just the other night I met a very cute guy who Events. Unfortunately he is also of the opinion that he is MUCH more knowledgeable than I am because he Events and I do NOT! He proceeded to lecture me on what to do with my horse and how to do it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I will count him as the exception because I know many other Event riders who are not pushy know-it-alls.

This has been a public service announcement. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tosca4711

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:12 AM

I think part of the issue is that some people who show think they are more important than people who don't show. Just because you don't show, it doesn't mean that you don't take your riding seriously.

Let's also face it, some show riders carry on like they were headed to the Olympics, where in reality they are low level riders who will never get very far.

Tosca

Moesha

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:14 AM

Ride'em VA....another great post....no one is more knowledgeable because of their discipline.....and as has been dais in various ways by various people....The only fool is the fool who thinks he knows everything...a true horsperson knows that they will never learn all there is and keeps their mind and heart open.

p.s too bad about the cute guy's attitude http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Moesha

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:15 AM

Tosca....I am laughing so hard over that last line of yours!!!

Really...I would never think there were people like that... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

aregard

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:16 AM

Two Toofs

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ejm:
Maybe we could get one of the networks interested in the concept for a new "reality show"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Put 12 princesses in a backside 50 stall barn with 5 horses shedrowing at a time (15 foot wide shedrow) and make them clean stalls & take the walkers in & out. Last one left standing wins a million? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Ride'emCO

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
p.s too bad about the cute guy's attitude http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have no idea... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Hey! We're practically neighbors!

Bumpkin

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Two Toofs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ejm:
Maybe we could get one of the networks interested in the concept for a new "reality show"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Put 12 princesses in a backside 50 stall barn with 5 horses shedrowing at a time (15 foot wide shedrow) and make them clean stalls & take the walkers in & out. Last one left standing wins a million? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those were some of the most enjoyable times of my life http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

Beethoven

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:48 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by slc:
you need to learn to ride with other people, that's all. it has nothing to do with one person being more important than another. it has to do with ring etiquette and rules for sharing a ring. the adjectives you use to make what these people were doing sound SO BAD, don't change that.

no one is required to call out each and every little thing. you can see what they are doing, and you can get out of their way. they don't have to call out each and every jump. you can see there is a line of jumps and where the person is going, and get out of the line of travel. if you cannot, stop, watch what path they are following, and then adapt to it.

you're walking, so you get out of the way of the person that is jumping. it has nothing to do with being important, it has to do with ordinary rules of sharing a ring. the fact that you are in the ring doesn't give you full command of what everyone else does there. you have to ride with other people. and yes, if you do not, of course you will be asked to ride in another spot, and eventually to leave the barn. i suspect you aren't as rude and selfish as this post makes you seem, and that you are just ignorant of how to ride with others.

if the rider was rude, doesn't change that fact. you need to learn to ride with others. you can keep your horse walking when others enter the ring, they aren't required to stand in the aisle and scream, ''OKAAAYY....i'm COMING INTO THE REEEEENG...is everyone REDEEEEEE'' you and they just work together, pay attention, and follow the rules that are customary at that barn.

the horse that is walking yields to horses that are jumping, trotting and cantering, usually by walking in off the rail, but also by walking away from the path of the jumper.

the horse that is jumping usually does a canter circle at one end of the ring, then jumps a series of jumps in a line on the long side and stops. it really isn't hard to stay out of their way when you are working at a walk. walk on the other long side, and make two small circles at each end of the ring, and let them work. when you are more advanced and have more control of your horse you can work more alongside them and in unison with them.

riders pass ''left to left'' in most rings, so when you are going left, you stay on the track, and the other rider comes to the inside and passes you, so your left shoulder is nearest their left shoulder. when you are going right, you come in off the track. if you keep your eyes up and keep your horse moving, you can use the presence of other riders to school your horse, making circles, turns and figures that fit in with what the other riders are doing.

horses at the walk, whether cooling out or schooling the walk, work to the inside off the track, and yield to all other horses.

circles and diagonal lines and any changes of direction figures finish to the INSIDE of riders riding on the track. there is NO halting on the track, ride into the middle off the track, check behind you and halt there. horses performing lateral work and horses that are green and out of control get whatever right of way they need to assist their riders in regaining control of them.

if a rider is erratic or doesn't follow a path you can anticipate, work at the other end of the ring and maintain a half ring between the two of you at all times. in other words if they are in the middle of the long side you are on the opposite long side, if they are on the short side of the arena you are on the far short side of the arena.

the above are common rules often used in arenas. watch the experienced riders and learn what the rules are for sharing the ring at your facility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW, wrong is always. I am soo glad you are always here to be rude and wrong!

~Jenna & Beethoven~
http://community.webshots.com/user/jlm179

Karosel

Jan. 30, 2004, 11:53 AM

Where is the moderators? Is is just me or is the golden rule of the bb being broken?? Guys play nice. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

~Humble pie doesn't taste too good...

Moesha

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:14 PM

I agree Karosel...we should all play nice!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And lets start by playing nice with Ride'emVa's cute eventer http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Ride'em VA we are literally across the river from each other!

M

Just My Style

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:27 PM

All I have to say is that the girl who was jumping had better not ever qualify for Harrisburg. She would never be able to handle schooling there.

BTW-I have a "plow horse" too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

GA Clique/Drafties Clique
Live Large- Ride a Drafty!

GotSpots

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:37 PM

I'm with Moesha (BTW, check your PTs): let's figure out who the cute eventer is.

Seriously though, I'd bet that GP could highlight the contract, call her lawyer, stand on her rights, and protest her treatment. She's entitled -- it sounds like the barn manager and princess were hideous. But in the long run, stepping on a turd only makes it flatter. Getting out may be the best thing, and being able to do so with your head high and without taking steps towards the karma train, well, that's probably better for your gut anyway. Good luck, regardless. I would have let the draft cross nail her.

Ride'emCO

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
And lets start by playing nice with Ride'emVa's cute eventer http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Ride'em VA we are literally across the river from each other!

M<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif He's a Greenie, needs to be taught to play nice...think we can handle it? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Mahlun

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:47 PM

My question is, what was she doing riding without her coach right there??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://members.shaw.ca/sgjosund/index.htm

Kathy Johnson

Jan. 30, 2004, 12:48 PM

I'm only on page 5 right now, but I wondered if the barn manager is the barn owner. If not, you should write a letter of complaint to the owner about the barn manager. It was high handed and rude. If she's the owner, too, it won't do any good, but if she's not, the owner very likely would not like her evicting good long term boarders over something so arbitrary.

Kathy Johnson (http://www.webpeak.com/~tony/dressage/index.html)

wateryglen

Jan. 30, 2004, 01:14 PM

OK I have a half draft...here's what I've done. I taught my horse to jump and got off and reset all the jumps then he knocks half of them over because I purposely lack impulsion and I take a LONG time resetting them! And I can see their unhappiness so I offer to just ride on the outside line "if thats ok with you!" and forget the jumping! They are usually quite happy to let me just ride by then!! BTW My horse has been a fieldhunter for 16 seasons and can outjump hers!

evenstar

Jan. 30, 2004, 05:00 PM

Karosel, this is a very modest debate, you should see what goes on sometimes in the Breeders Forum - oh, wait, you can't, there's a moratorium on discussions involving Oldenburg/ISR.
And those folk have been very civil lately - probably too busy with their imminent new foals to get all involved in BB debates.

Ride'em VA - I didn't take it as ever being about different riding styles or disciplines -to me it's about everybody paying the same board rate for the use of facilities and then someone being told their dollars do not in fact buy the same facilities and usage as other people's dollars.
That is just offensive.

Heather

Jan. 30, 2004, 05:13 PM

Not confused and I stand by my post. What I can't seem to explain properly is the difference between someone being "at fault" which giant pony certainly is NOT, and still being able to learn something from the expereince to stop it from being a pattern.

For many people, women especially, these sorts of instincts are about learning to trust our gut. Perhaps GP had some inner qualms about this place, but shut them down because "logic" told her it was a great barn. Maybe she felt some uneasiness about the situation, and she chose not to listen to that. I can't speak for her, obviously, but it never hurts to consider all the things which led up to such an unpleasant expereince.

Saying that learning to stay away from troublemakers, which is something everyone, horsie or not should try to do, is not that same as saying it's your fault if someone else is s trouble maker. Just like examining why something happenend, and your role in it is not the same as being a doormat.

If I were in GP's shoes, and had had something like that happen, I'm sure I would have popped off to the wench WAY more than she did (I have a temper you see), AND I would have raised holy hell with evil banr manager, and stapled that boarding contract to her HEAD. But, when I stopped seeing red, I would have sat down and carefully examined the situation, and tried to find the series of events that led me to being in that situation, and I would have formulated a plan as to how to avoid those types of situations, AND the people who cause them in the future. I'm far from perfect, but my goal is to someday be able to do step two, without having to go through the drama of step one. But I'm not yet evolved enough to manage it.

You all took slc's post as a condemnation of riding skill. I took it as a life lesson. What ever works for you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SaddlePotato3

Jan. 30, 2004, 09:51 PM

I agree with GotSpots, couldn't you take this to the court of small claims, and atleast get your months worth of board back or stay until you find a place to go? JMO.
GP I have SO much respect for you! I can't believe how calm you are throughout this whole thing. I'd be through the roof (granted I'm a 'hormonal' teen http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif) No excuse! Seriously, you take everything with such a great attitude! That's awesome, and hard to find in some people. I'm happy to have read your posts.
P.S. How old was the rider?

Member of the *Teen Clique* *Baby Greenie Support Group*

Ride'emCO

Jan. 31, 2004, 06:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by evenstar:
Ride'em VA - I didn't take it as ever being about different riding styles or disciplines -to me it's about everybody paying the same board rate for the use of facilities and then someone being told their dollars do not in fact buy the same facilities and usage as other people's dollars.
That is just offensive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know - and I totally agree with you. I was referring to certain comments that have been made, like, "That's why I stick with Eventers". It's silly to imply that a rider of a certain discipline is more or less likely to be nasty or rude - or on the flip side, more or less likely to be kind and decent and fun.

Eventer55

Jan. 31, 2004, 06:38 AM

MeOOOOOOWWW. . .

"When Allah created the horse he said. . . Thou shalt fly without wings and conquer without sword."

armandh

Jan. 31, 2004, 06:58 AM

assuming 2-8 are more of the same...
the only relevant rule where we use to board was LESSONS have the right of way, and 3 pages of other non related rules.
SOOOOO happy to have the horses at home despite all the work.

more hay, less grain

canterlope

Jan. 31, 2004, 07:39 AM

Heather, I agree with what you said and if SLC had put it in a similar manner, I don't think her post would have elicited the responses it did. However, when she writes things like, "i suspect you aren't as rude and selfish as this post makes you seem, and that you are just ignorant of how to ride with others" and "if the rider was rude, doesn't change that fact. you need to learn to ride with others" which directed the words "rude", "selfish", and "ignorant" at GP and made it appear as if GP was at fault and the other rider was justified in her actions, I don't think it is unreasonable for GP and others to be offended and voice their feelings.

We all know that written mediums put us at a disadvantage in communicating because of the lack of facial expressions, voice intonation, etc. that help to clue others in on our true feelings. It is also no secret on this BB that SLC writes in a way that many people take in a negative manner. Given these two facts, if I were SLC, I would try very hard to avoid using the words that she does and rethink my method of written communication. If I didn't, then I shouldn't be surprised if my posts continue to rub people the wrong way. You can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect an outcome different than what has already occurred. At that point, it would be time to take personal responsibility for your actions, don't expect others to change, and make the required changes yourself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They say cats have nine lives. They would settle for one good one. Adopt a cat (or dog) today.

nhwr

Jan. 31, 2004, 08:05 AM

I have now read a lot of this thread. There is one thing I can't figure out.

Is this a pity party or a lynching? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Jan. 31, 2004, 01:35 PM

I think the reason some people mentioned eventers would be more polite is because in eventing it is customary to call out your jumps. At the warm-up ring of an event you hear a constant barrage of "heads-up oxer" "heads-up verticle" etc. (perhaps to the extent of overkill where you ignore it like the boy who cried wolf but that is another topic altogether). It seems that at H/J warmup rings this is less common, I haven't been able to figure out how they determine right-of-way in H/J warmup. One of my friends once joked to me that it is the person with the biggest name trainer who has ROW. :-)

I think both sides of this dispute had some validity to start with.

I see nothing wrong with a person who is hacking while someone is jumping to ask that person to call out their jumps. And it is okay to call out each and every jump, especially if you see that there is another horse in the arena at the end of your line who may or may not be in the way when you get to the end of that line.

It is also okay to ask for right of way when you are schooling over jumps vs. someone who is mainly walking with a little bit of trotting interspersed. The reason I think this is okay is because you can do walking exercises pretty much anywhere in the arena but you can only jump where the jumps are set up.

The biggest problem here is that the person who was jumping didn't ask for right of way before hand, just expected that other rider would keep an eye out for her and yield, and then she escalated the dispute to the barn manager without even trying to work it out nicely. Some people are just like that, and GP will probably be happy in a different barn if that is how things go at this one.

Karosel

Jan. 31, 2004, 02:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by evenstar:
Karosel, this is a very modest debate, you should see what goes on sometimes in the Breeders Forum - oh, wait, you can't, there's a moratorium on discussions involving Oldenburg/ISR.
And those folk have been very civil lately - probably too busy with their imminent new foals to get all involved in BB debates.

Ride'em VA - I didn't take it as ever being about different riding styles or disciplines -to me it's about everybody paying the same board rate for the use of facilities and then someone being told their dollars do not in fact buy the same facilities and usage as other people's dollars.
That is just offensive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I read the Oldenburg thread, and may have even posted on it.. cant remember at the moment. To me it doesnt matter if one thread is worse than the other. A rule of the bb has been broken, several times. This thread should be closed (if the ripping apart of one person continues), or at least have the moderator step in and give a warning. I do not see why asking someone why they are such a dick should be allowed.

~Humble pie doesn't taste too good...

huntergal03

Jan. 31, 2004, 06:58 PM

I defenately know where your coming from,cuz i had the same problem myself at another barn.i think that was totally unfair too.i personnaly find that big barns like that always have some kind of quirk like that.if i was in your spot right now i would actually would move out and find a barn/arena that i was actually welcome and be able to enjoy riding,for the amount of money you are paying to use the facilities in the first place.i would also say that to the manager too.its like,what am i paying you for if i can't use the arena,without being kicked out by show rider/or being plowed down by other riders.i also think that rider was very rude at calling yourhorse names too.e.g.plow horse.etc...well i think it would be to your enjoyment to move and find somewhere where your welcome.my 2 cents.

snokat

Jan. 31, 2004, 08:24 PM

I don't know if this was already mentioned in an earlier post, but Giantpony, where do you board? (as in City,State) I can understand not volunteering barn names/people, but I'd certainly like to know where this took place if that's OK. Thanks.

faraway46

Jan. 31, 2004, 10:11 PM

First of all: what's wrong with owning a plow horse? I won two national jumping finals on a an ex-carriage horse! I say, if the horse lives up to your expectations, it could be an elephant cross and pink, as long as it makes you happy!!

Second, I, too, got sick of BNT and riders' primadonna attitudes, even though I've ridden jumpers in Grand Prix. Seems like if you're a big time rider/trainer, everyone involved in the equestrian world who is "beneath" you, should bow and awe in gratitude for their presence. That is why I bought my own place and hang out with all the begginers and trail riders...they're much more fun!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Third, the better rider should try to steer away from the less experienced one, since they have more ability to do so ( although in this case, I don't know who is a better rider since the jumper couldn't stay clear of ONE rider in a ring...?!?)

And,last but not least, if the "better" rider is having trouble with another one in a ring, shouldn't she stop and request something nicely to organize the way of riding to accomodate the space for both of them? She might of been a better rider but, by her attitude, not the better person http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Giantpony: get the h**l out of that place! Go somewhere where you are appreciated as a wonderful, horseloving person that you are. I admire that more in someone, than anyone who can jump a 6ft wall! It is WAY more important to rescue another living being than to win all the ribbons on earth!! Poor Barn Manager...she has made a terrible mistake! Believe me, she will miss you soon!! I would take you up for free at my place but it's a little out of your way http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif!!!

horse_poor

Feb. 1, 2004, 06:04 AM

i just managed to read this entire thread-actually started reading it last night and got tired so stoppped on page 4, left the window open, turned the monitor off, then came back this a.m. to finish it.

first, giant pony--i was appalled to read your post. every barn i have been at, including the one i am currently at, the arena is "share and share alike" what i find interesting is most barns have a "do not jump unless a trainer is present---if you are a trainer do not jump unless someone else is present" rule-simply to prevent a situation that if a rider was to come off a horse while jumping and got hurt they wouldnt lay there for hours until someone came along and found them. (of course i dont think its a good idea to ride alone without someone else in the barn period-i have come off more on flat work than jumping work) now, evidently the barn you are at must not have had this rule since the princess was jumping w/out a trainer. at a barn we used to ride at the was a girl we called the kamikazi (sp?) rider-you had no clue what direction she would be going in at any point in tim and couldnt control her horse---we chose to not ride when she was in the arena, but that was our choice. sometimes there are rdiers you cannot stay out of the way of because, well, they are simply all over the place.

the way you describe her jumping sounds as if she was almost being a show off-"oooo lookie at me i am juuuuuuuuumping! my response would be BFD. woohoo.

someone mentioned that they asked to ride during someone else lesson and the lesson giver said sure-i think its good for my student(s) to ride with someone else riding in here. AMEN! i dont know how many times i have said to students-when you are at a show there will be a gazillion other people warming up with you----you HAVE to learn ring etiquette. i even make them call jumps if there is even one of them in the ring-why? it gets them in the habit and its a good way for them to learn to identify jumps by their proper names (oxer, liverpool, etc)

announcing entry before entering the ring is a fabulous idea--a horse i am currently training was at a barn where this was a rule-a barn princess thought she was above the rule, barged into the arena, the training horse (i was not training her at the time) was being lunged by her then trainer, was startled by the barn princess's entry into the arena, reared/bucked and corkscrewed and hit the ground on her shoulder, causing a bone chip/muscle tear that took about 2 years to recover from. before i enter a ring, and require any of my students to do the same, i yell a heads up we'recomin in---it's COURTESY.

as far as the princess insulting your horse, i think i would have promptly dismounted and clocked her right off of her horse. i have a rule-insult me, my mother, my family-thats fine-but dont DARE insult my kids or my horses. thats when the gloves come off and things become ghetto.

i think you should present the contract with the appropriate sections highlighted and simply ask for a response-----let the contract speak for you.

as far as sterotyping by discilpine-BAH! i am at a barn that has everything from dressage to eventers to western pleasure to gamers to hunters---you can find a princess in any discipline. i have no time for a princess in any discipline-we all put our boots on one at a time.

ginatpony--i think you will be better off at another barn-its just too bad things had to come down to this-but as soeone said, if the BO/BM contines to ignore her own contract, she will find herself with only one boarder. what a sad only world she will be in then.

i have been at barns that there has been a sign up for arena use when it came down to a huge cat fight. but more barns than not, everyone peacefully coexists-we all pay the same amount of money for the same use of the facilities (although i know some places you pay x for the use of x, etc) but in general, i think you get my gist.

its people like this princess that makes this sport not fun and make me wanna throw my hands up and say "I QUIT" fortunately the people i know like that are far and few between.

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

TC Manhattan

Feb. 1, 2004, 07:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GotSpots:

Seriously though, I'd bet that GP could highlight the contract, call her lawyer, stand on her rights, and protest her treatment. She's entitled -- it sounds like the barn manager and princess were hideous. But in the long run, stepping on a turd only makes it flatter. Getting out may be the best thing, and being able to do so with your head high and without taking steps towards the karma train, well, that's probably better for your gut anyway. Good luck, regardless. I would have let the draft cross nail her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, reading this whole thread blows me away (on a number of levels.) I highlighted the above quote because of all the posts, this is the one which most closely hits the mark where I see it. Sounds to me like the JP (jumping princess) was a real sh*t, but the real baddy in this scenario was the barn manager.

In my mind, anyone with the authority/responsibility of barn manager would reasonably be expected to possess some level of maturity, objectivity and fairness. After all (especially in light of the very specific terms delineated in GiantPony's boarding contract) this all boils down to a black-N-white legal issue. (I'm not diminishing the fact that the rudeness and manipulativeness of JP was bad, too; it's just that in this case GiantPony has the advantage of a cut-and-dried legal precedence as well...she's got it in writing...the writing of the boarding facility, who is the one who is ultimately screwing her by botting her out of the barn.)

One can go on and on about the crappy behavior of the princess, and yes, "rules for the road" are very important to know and follow. In my mind, this is way beyond that. The princess threw a "hissy" fit. She ran and tattled to the BM. Well that's bad, but most of us have witnessed this sort of scenario in the past. To me the BIG ISSUE is that the BM used this "chicky's" complaint as reason enough to break contract with GiantPony by evicting her. Showing him copies of the contract mean nothing...he knows them. All you're doing is reinforcing that the retaliation was effective because you got "hurt." Well, what about the old saying, "don't get mad...get even"? It would be really interesting to shake this BM (and BO if that is a different party) in their boots with threat of legal retaliation and retribution. Don't you have anyone (friend, family) who is a lawyer who could write/call and contact them to at least get them trembling?

Reading this thread really pisses me off!

BTW, lay off of SLC already. Some of these posts were REALLY vicious. The point IMHO is not the arena rules or the manipulative princess...it is the BM who empowered her complaint by using it as the basis to evict GiantPony. He/she's the one I'D want to get my hands on! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

"Have no expectations, only abundant expectancy."

GotSpots

Feb. 1, 2004, 07:53 AM

Just to clarify, the intent of my post was not to seriously suggest legal action. Tone is hard to get across in the written context. The gist of my comment was that although I wouldn't be surprised if she could pursue some sort of legal remedy, that perhaps these are just hideous people, and GP might be better off not getting down in the dirt with them. Leaving in a classy manner might be a better option in the long term, rather than duking it out. Sometimes getting even is more psychically harmful than getting past an unpleasant situation.

TC Manhattan

Feb. 1, 2004, 11:49 AM

You're absolutely right, GOTSPOTS.

I guess it's just that so much energy was being spent on anger toward the "princess," whereas I saw the real culprit was the barn manager. Many posters were having a fit (and rightfully so) about the shoddy, rude and manipulative behavior of the "princess" toward GiantPony. Her behavior was definitely inexcusable. However, I saw the REAL CULPRIT as being the barn manager who so readily validated and defended her bratty behavior by turning on GiantPony and victimizing HER. Just serves to justify to the "princess" in her own little, smarmy mind that SHE was right in attacking and evicting GiantPony. It is the BM who enabled her behavior, so it will only get worse next time.

GiantPony's post listing the terms of her boarding agreement really just put me over the top. I've NEVER been in a facility which spelled these issues out so clearly and specifically...and THAT just blew me away. That barn manager (and the facility) just basically doesn't have a leg to stand on should they get called on it. That's why my response about "rattling the cage" by threatening legal recourse. Might at least give GiantPony the opportunity to discuss this matter at length with BM. I'm with her when she says that backing away so readily from a bully is not always the best course of action. Sometimes the "thrill" of a retreat serves to empower these tyrants even more in their own minds, and they'll either come back for more blood or seek another "victim."

My sense of fairness is completely violated by this entire scenario...the BM (gee, you know this is a rather "Freudian" abbreviation!) above all else should have been a fair and impartial referree/mediator between the 2 boarders and their arena conflict. Rather, he/she chose to empower the more aggressive party. How is THAT conflict resolution?

"Have no expectations, only abundant expectancy."

lilblackhorse

Feb. 1, 2004, 12:04 PM

Did we ever ascertain that the barn was managed by someone else OTHER than the owner? I think I asked that pages ago....it definitely makes a difference. If they are the same, then she's not going to get far (Other than the woman has breeched her own contract)...but if the BM did that without the BO knowing, I think sparks still could fly--and rightfully so. Can you imagine the hot water BM would find herself in should the owner find out that a long time boarder was evicted against the contract rules?

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Kryswyn

Feb. 1, 2004, 01:31 PM

Giant Pony - you were right, they were wrong. You have a legally binding document. Wave it at them and tell them you'll move when you find a suitable place (like on March 1).

SLC- oh nevermind why bother...

Heather - Wow you think too much http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Sometimes what walks like a duck and quacks like a duck IS a duck. Or dick as someone else mentioned lol. But whatever works for you. I admire anyone who strives for self-improvement.

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

nhwr

Feb. 1, 2004, 01:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Heather - Wow you think too much Sometimes what walks like a duck and quacks like a duck IS a duck. Or dick as someone else mentioned lol.......
~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am the only one who thinks this is ironic? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Kryswyn

Feb. 1, 2004, 02:04 PM

Probably http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Because you're thinking too much. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

seal

Feb. 1, 2004, 02:17 PM

Well, I for one am sad to state that I do NOT think that giantpony should try and sue the BM or the BO for that matter.

An errily similar situation happened to me and it came from the BO/BM who also sided with the guilty party. I, too, like GP attempted to stand up to the bully and instead, I was victimzed yet again, by the BM/BO.

In my sitation the BM sided with the guilty party because:

1) Both were male
2) Guilty party boarded 3 horses to my lowly 1

Since I was already quite unhappy and displeased how I was treated by said "mangement" since I was a lowly boarder, I chose to leave. I don't see how one can retaliate no matter how just ones cause is--this "industry" is a very, very small world and I would be afraid of being branded "difficult".

I really see it as a lose/lose scenario.

Just my 2 cents.

TC Manhattan

Feb. 1, 2004, 03:08 PM

Well, you're right, SEAL. I see no realistic way of staying on (for GiantPony). Because even IF a threat permitted her to stay on, the situation would remain "uncomfortable" at best. Unfortunately, once the BM stopped being unbiased all hope was lost that this could end up a "win-win" situation for all parties. There's just a big part of me that wants to say "yea, I'll go...but not QUIETLY!" Fair is fair and UNFAIR IS UNFAIR. (Can you tell that this whole thing pushes all the wrong buttons for me? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

BTW, thoughts on a new "by-line": "DPMO" short for "don't piss me off!" Would make a great tee-shirt logo, no? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"Have no expectations, only abundant expectancy."

giantpony

Feb. 1, 2004, 06:09 PM

Update...
FYI, The BM is also the BO just to clarify.

As of yesterday, my horse has been moved 1.5 hours away to my friend's place, it was the best I could do on such short notice. Honestly, I didnt want my horse there a moment longer than necessary.

The barn I want to move to, has a stall available March 1, so she can mostly have a month off as there is no indoor arena, and its too far to go more than 2 or 3 times a week.

After I loaded the mare, I posted 6 copies of the boarding agreement with relevent areas highlighted, along with a short explanation written on it, for anyone that hadnt heard the whole story.

As we were ready to pull out, the BM came running out of the house and said "you cant leave the property!" when I asked why, so told me I couldnt leave until I paid February's board. I handed her a copy of the eviction notice and told her I would not be paying, since I would not be here any longer. She told me no matter why I was leaving, I had to give 30 days notice or pay for 30 days board.

I told her to feel free to take me to court for it, and that I would be glad to counter sue for breach of contract. She yelled all sorts of profanities and I sat quietly, waiting for her to breathe and then said "Have a great day and I wish you all the best in the future. Please stand back from the truck as I would hate for you to get injured."

She stepped back, her mouth open wide, suddenly speechless. I started to drive away and waved back at her. Then I took a deep breath and suddenly knew we'd be better off than we had been.

I did forget to pack 2 buckets and a lead rope, but Im not going back for them, cut my losses and move on http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The mare trailered quietly, but was a bit stiff coming off the trailer. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif No heat, no swelling, no nothing, hopefully she'll work out of it in a day or so.

And so ends the nightmare, I hope. Thanks to everyone for their support and suggestions http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[For anyone who wanted to know what stable, I will not publish the name, but its a well known h/j stable in the upstate NY area.]

AWIP

Feb. 1, 2004, 06:25 PM

Let me get this straight...

- Bm is BO
- evicts you in violation of her OWN boarding contract
- then wants 30 days board in accordance with the boarding contract as if you CHOSE to leave?

Dear god ... what reality is this person living in? Best of luck GP, anything has got to be an improvement over that.

horse_poor

Feb. 1, 2004, 06:33 PM

unbelievable.

thats all i can say

she kicks you out, you leave, shes pi$$ed for not getting feb board.

OTOH, what exactly DID the eviction notice say? if it said this is your 30 day notice to vacate, then she might have a leg to stand on.

what is the contract termination clause in the contract? most usually say 30 days notice must be given by either party....

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

lilblackhorse

Feb. 1, 2004, 06:52 PM

GP, I give you a big pat on the back for being a big person and taking the high road. You are a good person,and when this woman (who I now know is the bo as well) needs a big assed whallop with Aunt Esther's purse.

OMG--I can hardly contain myself sitting here thinking that this bitch had the audacity to ask you for next month's board after she evicted you. wow. wow....I just let it sink in, and STILL I am amazed.

I think you handled this with class and aplomb, and I am happy that your gentle giant is out of there. These people are obviously unwell, and you didn't need to be there a minute longer. I hope this comes back to bite her on the ass for bad Karma, but we can only wait and hope.

I hope your horse and you will be very happy at your new barn next month-even being far away for a month is a better thing than having those freaks take care of your loved one.

What a piece of work---what state did you say you lived in? Personally, I, being the nasty vindictive person I am, would happily post her name and the name of her facility so that others would not be duped. How utterly unprofessional, and she's lucky you aren't sueing her butt off for breach of contract,like you mentioned. Oh to have been a fly on the wall for THAT priceless look that I am sure you got when you mentioned THAT! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

She takes the cake-I hope you find happiness and fun at your new place.You deserve it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

wanderlust

Feb. 1, 2004, 08:25 PM

Unbelievable. I can't believe the nerve of the BO. giantpony, I am very impressed by your attitude through all of this. I don't know if I would manage to be so polite.

~formerly Master Tally~

bip

Feb. 1, 2004, 09:40 PM

I think as soon as the inconvenience of moving your horse wears off, you will laugh and laugh at this whole thing. It is so over the top!

You MUST have other stories from this place, don't you? Seems strange that they would act normal for three years and then just go off the deep end. Maybe things that only seemed a little strange as isolated incidents but now have meaning in the larger context? Pray tell!

Calico

Feb. 2, 2004, 11:49 AM

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif GiantPony, you handled it beautifully. What a freak!

Best wishes.

Nikki^

Feb. 2, 2004, 12:18 PM

Now now girls, Lay off of slc. We all know she wrote many books on Ring etiquette such as:

"HEY YOU! Get out of my schooling ring!" A guide to boarding Barn school ring etiquette.

and her supplemental book:

"HEY TRAINER! Get those Yahoos out of my warm up ring!" A guide to proper warm up ring etiquette at a horse show.

Edited to add:

Her latest book:

"IT'S ALL MY FAULT!" A self help guide that teaches you that you are at fault for everything no matter what it is. \
(Devildog quitting her job for dangerous reasons is an example...)

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Kioko (http://www.geocities.com/area51/crater/5267/HeartofGold.html)

Look up your TB's bloodlines (http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/)

[This message was edited by Nikkibaby27 on Feb. 02, 2004 at 03:36 PM.]

lilblackhorse

Feb. 2, 2004, 12:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nikkibaby27:
Now now girls, Lay off of slc. We all know she wrote many books on Ring etiquette such as:

"HEY YOU! Get out of my schooling ring!" A guide to boarding Barn school ring etiquette.

/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't the Rolling Stones do a song about that too? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Elippses Users Clique........"I hate stall rest" and Grammar Nazi Cliques

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

Heather

Feb. 2, 2004, 12:51 PM

Kryswyn, you would hardly be the first person to accuse me of thinking too much--in fact I'd say I hear it on a daily basis (my trainer is thinking of getting an audio tape that repeats, "don't think about it, just go and jump it"). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Hey, to each his own. I still stand by my posts. Don't care, nor do I expect anyone to agree with me.

For me, I've found that I've been able to significantly up my happiness quotient when I stopped being the victim, and took an active roll in seeing and changing the patterns of behavior in my own life. Go figure.

I think the BM behaved atrociously, and hope the GP has nothing but sublime happiness in her future endeavors. As a fellow Plow Horse lover, I wish her nothing but the best in her future endeavors.