CHOKE-Things are looking Brighter!!!

[Kiwayu]

So I go down to the barn tonight, in my PJ's, thinking it'll only take 10 minutes to check on Kiwayu. Well, as he's eatting his SOAKED (actually soupy) hay cubes he starts coughing like crazy. So I go over and watch him. Now he starts wheezing and really choking. I call my friend to ask if there's anything I can do to help him, and I see bubbles coming out his nose/mouth. I completely freak and call the vet for an emergency. While waiting for the vet, Kiwayu was digging to china. Vet arives about 10-15 minutes later (feels like for ever! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif) and goes to work. She gave him banamine, Rompum, some other anti-inflammatory, penicillin, tubed him, took temp., listened to his chest, etc. Vet stayed about an hour to monitor him.

Boy was that the scariest thing to watch!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You can't do anything but wait for the vet.

[Kiwayu]

So I go down to the barn tonight, in my PJ's, thinking it'll only take 10 minutes to check on Kiwayu. Well, as he's eatting his SOAKED (actually soupy) hay cubes he starts coughing like crazy. So I go over and watch him. Now he starts wheezing and really choking. I call my friend to ask if there's anything I can do to help him, and I see bubbles coming out his nose/mouth. I completely freak and call the vet for an emergency. While waiting for the vet, Kiwayu was digging to china. Vet arives about 10-15 minutes later (feels like for ever! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif) and goes to work. She gave him banamine, Rompum, some other anti-inflammatory, penicillin, tubed him, took temp., listened to his chest, etc. Vet stayed about an hour to monitor him.

Boy was that the scariest thing to watch!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif You can't do anything but wait for the vet.

[runswithhorses]

Yes it very scary. I am glad it ended well for you and your horse. That happened to my old mare a few years ago on her regular hay. I could see the muscles in her neck ripple in spasms. She was quite clogged.

[Susan P]

Been there, my horse choked on his Equine Senior, then someone accidently fed him a bunch of dry beet pulp and he choked again. The first time the vet came, gave him Banamine and he recovered. He was such a sweat ball and was so desperate he snuggled his head in my arms.

The second time I walked him and actually the choke did stop. This past couple years he's choked on dry grain and a couple times on carrots.

Now I give him a lot more water and soak his beet pulp well. This has made the biggest difference.

When he choked the last times I gave him a moment to see if he'll recover on his own then if not I massage his throat and you can pretty much tell where the bottle neck is. I help him push it in both directions. Where it's closer to the bottom I massage down but if it's at the top I massage up and just keep trying to loosen it. I just did this on my own, no vet and it worked very well. I've had to do it a few times and each time he became more cooperative, letting me do it.

This is not the best choice, lots of water on the dry food for chokers, and hay cubes should be very well soaked to get the lumps out. I'm not saying this for all horses but if your horse has choked he's more prone to it and it's very scary. I see no reason why he will be less prone to choke but instead more prone to it. Let stuff soak till it's not lumpy, it takes time, you could also break it up.

[Barnfairy]

It is just awful to watch. My pony M had an episode so bad a month ago that I had to haul him to the equine hospital for endoscopy. He was sore for a few weeks afterwards.

Susan P is right. Soak everything in warm water, and after the water has been absorbed add a more water and stir so the cubes break up all the way. Also, feeding in a very large pan (I'm talking about the humongous rubbermaid pans that you put on the ground) encourages the slop to spread out...that way your horse can't get a huge mouthful.

Also, no more carrots or apples -- these cause the worst cases of choke because they cannot be dissolved and are very difficult to dislodge. Applesauce and babyfood carrot mush from a jar are okay, though. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[SBF]

I prefer chopped hay over cubes. It's much easier to soak and you don't have to worry about making sure all the cubes have broken completely apart.

[Susan P]

Apples are not the problem that carrots are, they are easier to chew and break down. It really depends on your horse and you can slice the apples in ways that are easy to chew and eat. You can also blend carrots and the horses love that. If you slice carrots lengthwise it's much safer to eat. Take your carrot and a sharp straight blade, not cerated and holding the small end stroke down away from you never towards you. Don't let people or pets stand near you because you need to use a little force slices them. I can do quite a few pounds this way and fairly quickly. Make the slivers of carrots as thin as you need to.

I've also heard to put a large or even three larger round river rocks into your horses feed to slow them down while they're eating.

[*FoxFire*]

Tell me about it! It almost looks as if they are colicing. My mare stuck her neck out, and wouldnt move.
Its so sad to watch them.

[Kiwayu]

Kiwayu is a VERY slow eater. The vet and I think either that he came across a "clumpy" hay cube that didn't break down, or something distracted him while eating and he just choked. I mean it happens, us people choke. I just have to be very carful from now on and watch him like a hawk the next few days for phnemonia. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Susan P]

Not a vet and never played one on TV but it did help my horse a lot when I massaged his throat in both directions to help it dislodge. I heard it move, it came back out of his mouth of course we wouldn't want to waste grain so he chewed it, ha ha. I heard him swallow a little too.

I have really ended the choking, I think by using a lot more water in his food and using very well soaked beet pulp. I haven't had any problems since then. Oil probably is helpful too, lubricating everything is a help.

But it's the dry food, an eager eater and perhaps there could even be an obstruction in on near his throat.

Choke is just a term it's not actually a real choke, that would be an obstruction of the airway. The vet explained this to me the first time he choked that she was called in. He was in bad shape then.

[Barnfairy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...it did help my horse a lot when I massaged his throat in both directions to help it dislodge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, my vet advises this also.

Horses can and do choke on apple pieces. Despite being soft, they are a particular problem for my pony M because he has so few molars left. He can't even do diced or sliced, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif hence the baby food.

[Staish14]

You poor thing! You've had so much going on lately since what happened when you were barnsitting! I hope this is the last of your horror stories! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Glad to hear your boy is okay, and I hope it doesn't happen again!

[Kiwayu]

My vet did advise me to massage Kiwayu's throat, but she said that's basically all I can do until she arrives.

Staish14- You have no idea the kind of animal problems I've been having between Kiwayu just getting over herpes in his eye again, Mango (the barn kitty) shattering her femur, the dog ate rocks, my cockatoo has an infection from an ingrown feather, and now the choke problem with Kiwayu. IT NEVER ENDS!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I just finished watching Sandbarhorse's barn this past week, and fortunately it was NOT a horror story! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For those of you that have had serious problems with choke, when were you allowed to start feeding hay again? My vet said after 2 days of soupy bran/senior mashes I can *start* to slowly introduce REALLY soupy hay cubes, or alfalfa flavored water http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , but I forgot to ask when I can start to feed regular hay again. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[Susan P]

Kiwayu, Wow, you're horse must have really scratched up his throat. No hay? No one ever suggested to me that I could massage the throat I just tried it because it seemed to make sense.

If you can give injections you can keeps some Banamine in your frig for a "just in case". I know a few people who do that. It would be good to have it for a possible colic too. I sounds like a good medication to have on hand. I'm sure you'd have to get directions from the vet. Sometimes it takes a while for the vet to arrive and that's what they would do anyway.

[Kiwayu]

Susan P- I do keep a banamine injection at the barn for "in case", but my horse can't really tolerate banamine (or bute) so only gets it for emergencies and it has to be injected IV. He gets really bad diarrhea when ever he receives banamine or bute. Besides my vet telling me no hay for a few days, I've read some articles that no dry forage should be given to any until after 3 days past from the time of the choke. They claim that whatever scratching the horse did, the dry forage could irritate it more and cause permanent scarring where choke becomes more likely in the future. I don't want that! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

TODAY'S UPDATE: Kiwayu was acting like he was starving yesterday, eatting everything in sight, now won't touch a thing today. Won't even eat plain applesauce. So, if he doesn't touch his breakfast by this afternoon I'll be phoning the vet. I'm hoping he's just being a pain in the a$$, from not being able to eat anything. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif He had a temperature of 98.6 all day yesterday and the time of the choke, but this morning it's 100.1. I know that's still normal, but it's higher than it's been. Should I be concerned?

[Posting Trot]

I'd be concerned. It could be that his throat is so irritated that it hurts (and is possibly swollen up) and he won't or can't eat.

It might not be a bad idea to give him the banamine. A mild reaction to the banamine would be preferable to real discomfort. But I'd check with your vet first and discuss the options and probably have the vet out to look at him again.

Good luck.

[Susan P]

I think you should call the vet and see what they think. This is kind of a complicated issue with his reactions to Bannamine and Bute.

Is there anything else they can offer him for swelling and discomfort?

Poor Kiwayu http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[Barnfairy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For those of you that have had serious problems with choke, when were you allowed to start feeding hay again? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>After a mild case of choke, I've been told to keep the horse on banamine (I usually use the paste form) for two or three days, and to soak all feed for two or three days as well. After M's recent very serious choke episode, I was advised to withhold his cubes and feed only his senior grain at half rations, super super wet, for three days, and then gradually re-introduce the cubes.

I understand your horse is sensitive to banamine and bute, but I too lean towards thinking that the benefits outweight the risks right now. Failing that, how about B-L solution or other non-bute anti-inflammatories?

Also, my vet has always prescribed antibiotics (SMZs) after a choke episode; there is a risk of pneumonia following a choke episode if the horse has aspirated any of the green goo or such. I don't think it would hurt to give your vet a call and see if antibiotics are in order for your Kiwayu.

I hope he's feeling better soon. When it rains, it pours, huh? Hang in there.

[Buffyblue]

I had a horse who choked on alfalfa pellets. This was quite a while ago, and my memory is a little fuzzy about the details, but I know my vet (who had to come out from Long Island) had us give him a shot of Ace and remove all foodstuffs and water from his stall until he got there. I know we did bran mashes for a couple of days, adding his grain gradually to the mash, and had to soak his hay. He did have a sore throat but thankfully did not develop pneumonia. A friend's pony wasn't so lucky and spent a week in the hospital with pneumonia from aspirating something into his lungs. Hope your guy is going to be OK.

[Kiwayu]

Well I just put a call into the vet and waiting for a reply. He still has no interest in food. Not even plain applesauce or grain right out of the bag. He has NO fever. I don't see anything else wrong except for no appetite. The vet did give him penicillin. I'm going to ask the vet when she calls if I should give him banamine. Keep your fingers crossed that all is okay. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Barnfairy]

Jingling for Kiwayu.

M didn't want to eat for well over 24 hours after his last choke; he was just so very sore (especially since they ran the endoscope up and down his esophagus a couple times checking for lesions).

He came out of it just fine, hopefully Kiwayu will too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Susan P]

Though I may have had a couple choke incidents they were never as complicated.

This is awful, you poor thing, I know how stessful this must be. Let us know how he's doing.

[Kiwayu]

Well, the vet called. The vet thinks he has an upset stomach from being so stressed out. I was told to give him 2 oz mylanta then offer him some slightly soaked senior about 1 hour later. I did and he picked at it, but did eat about 90%. I have to call with an update now and ask some more questions. Of course the vet had to call while I was napping and I answered the phone half asleep and forgot to ask some other questions.

I'll keep you updated!

[Buffyblue]

Did the vet say you could offer him some hand-grazing? (Not that there's much grass available - but sometimes that gets them perked up.) I hope he's feeling better soon. And your poor little kitty too!

[Kiwayu]

I would be able to hand graze IF there was actually grass around in March. I caught him eating shavings by the mouth ful, so the vet said to give him a handful or two of soaked hay. He hates anything that is soaked, so that didn't go over to well. The vet wants me to give her an update tomorrow morning and then we'll decide if he needs to be seen tomorrow again. I sure hope not. I can only imagine what this past emergency bill is like... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

[amdfarm]

Sorry to hear about all your bad luck lately. Hope it turns around for you soon w/ spring coming.

I've had two chokes, first I was able to dislodge immediately after onset, by squeezing his throat latch (like a gag reflex in a dog) to encourage him to cough. After 15-20 minutes he forced it out. Ate his food to fast and choked on alfalfa pellets, which I mixed w/ oil. He's been fine ever since and it's been a couple years.

Second required the vet. Mare was out on pasture and not getting any type of grain or pellets. Beings that she's a 17hh+, 1800lb percheron mare, no amount of me squeezing her throat latch or working the esophogus back and forth would have done any good (above horse is a small app colt, now 4.) My vet was on another emergency call, so I brought her in and patiently waited. And unlike the first horse, who was quite upset about the whole ordeal, walking around in circles, wanting to lay down, and so on, this mare was perfectly content to just stand there like it was no big deal. Vet arrived a half hour later, gave her a mild sedative, banamine and gathered her supplies. It took some real doing to get this girl dislodged, many attempts, another shot of sedative and finally a shot of oxytocin. We let her rest between each injections. Vet thought she'd maybe got a corn cob or something since it was so hard, as the last 2/3 of her esophogus was blocked. Finally managed to get it after the oxytocin and had all but maybe 5-6" of that tube down here, all the way to her stomach. No cob, it was all grass. Recovery was two additional shots of banamine the next two days, penicillin series, no hay for five days, mash three times a day (lots of beet pulp and strategy) and hand grazing for a few minutes starting on day 3 if the mashes were going well, and increased from there. She was in the barn for 10 days and has been fine since then, no complications. My guess was that she'd just found a really good grazing spot and didn't come up for water. Emergency after hours on a weekend and the best $135 I ever spent.

If your boy doesn't like his mash, can you try applesauce or oil to make it a bit palatable for him?

Hope he feels better soon. It's so hard to watch them when they're helpless like that.

L.

[Susan P]

amdfarm, that's an awful experience. I would have never thought they would choke on grass. You poor big girl.

I know how hard it is to work with the bigger horses when you can reach their mouth. My horse, only 16.2 but a high head had a horrible fever from a virus and hated the Tribrison. He wouldn't eat it in his grain so I disolved it in a little water, added molasses and put it into a syringe. You had to keep shaking it because the meds went to the back of the syringe and he never got it all. So I had to add an extra pill. Well he started avoiding me and throwing his head up and side to side like a little kid. I had to corner him or he'd run away. You know you can only do that so many time when they only have 24/7 turn out and you don't have a stall. The only time this worked was when he was too sick to resist.


My next trick was after talking to someone about compounding medications and they said sticky like paste is the way to go. Looking around my house I thought, hmmm they like peanut butter. So I compounded my own meds. I made candy medication. disvolved pills, I needed around 22, enough peanut butter to mask the taste (peanut butter is easiest to mask taste with a bitter pill as is molasses) then a little molasses and pinch of sugar. Then to keep them from sticking together I put them into a bag of powdered sugar.

He never knew what hit him, he loved it and begged for more. He recovered super fast after that.

[Kiwayu]

Monday morning UPDATE:
I thought things were going good last night. The vet called me again and told me to offer him some soaked hay (couple of handfuls), a little soupy hay cubes, and some slightly soaked grain. He ate the grain, and the hay, but didn't finish the hay cubes. This morning I come down to a stall with 1 poop pile (since 12 hours ago), he didn't drink any water, finished his grain, didn't clean up all handfuls of wet hay, and didn't finish his hay cubes. So I called the vet again, and while I was on the phone he made poop pile #2-still not enough poop. So the vet said to offer different things of water and to call her in a few hours. If no poop or water gone, then he either needs to be tubed again or IV fluids, because he's not pooping enough. The only good thing is that he actually has more energy than yesterday. Ohh, and temperature was 98.1, so that's normal.

How on earth does a case of choke turn into what seems to be a colic???? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[DMK]

kiwayu, he probably has a very sore throat - eats a bit, then it hurts, so he stops, thus the pickiness - maybe small frequent meals would help.

He should drink plenty, but he hasn't really had a lot of food for a few days, so maybe the lack of poop piles isn't that alarming. Also, if you have a grazing muzzle he could wear except whe you feed him, that would probably be a good thing.

One thing I fed our pony when her throat was really bad was a "tea" of sweet feed. Just poured a 1/2 gallon or so of hot water in some grain, let it soak for a while and strained it with a colander. Then mixed it with cold water and gave the gallon of tasty water to her to sip away at. Not so much in the way of nutrition, but she slurped it up and got her H2O. Sort of like bribing kids with chocolate milk istead of real milk. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[amdfarm]

Yes, it was awful Susan. She was such a trooper though. It took two hours. I never would have thought grass either, but that's all we saw.

Kiwayu... I wouldn't be too alarmed by lack of piles either. He's not been eating like he normally should and it takes what he does eat awhile to pass.

L.

[McVillesMom]

Hope things are going well for your boy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ...My mare had a mild case of choke once (grain), and managed to dislodge it on her own...it was pretty scary for a while, though. Fortunately no complications from it, and we solved the problem by putting rocks in her feed tub (I need to go find some more, actually...she pushes them out occasionally, and I don't think the girls cleaning stalls know what they are for, so they get taken out!)

BTW, how is Mango doing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Kiwayu]

UPDATE: Not good...

I just got in from the barn and I've been there since 7:30am. Kiwayu is having a bad impaction colic. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif He was on IV fluids all day today and attempted to poop at 11:45pm tonight and it was rock solid/dry. I'm hoping the fluids kick in and all is okay. Please Jingle for Kiwayu.

Mango is doing great! Leg is functioning fine!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[amdfarm]

Oh wow!! Lots of jingles headed your way!

L.

[ChocoMare]

Big jingles for K (and his mommy).

Two things to try if Kiwayu still refuses to drink:

1-- Get powdered GatorAde and see if he'll lick it up on his own or from your hand. As much as he'll tolerate.

OR, if that fails...:

2-- Per my vet for when Star colicked -- mix Epsom salts and warm water into a thick, but still viscous, fluid and syringe it into the mouth--as many times as the horse will allow you to. The salt will naturally force him to drink.

Will keep jingling till we hear some good news. Hang in there baby. We're here for you.

[Buffyblue]

Jingling for you and Kiwayu! Hopefully by the time you read this the crisis will have passed and your boy will be back on track to feeling like his old self soon! Even without a medical event like a choke, I worry about colic this time of year with all the crazy weather changes. Hang in there - and keep us updated!

[Susan P]

Kiwayu, eagerly awaiting some good news. So sorry for more trouble for you and your boys. You certainly have my jingles and prayers. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Posting Trot]

I hope he's doing better this morning.

[classicsporthorses]

Hey, K; my heart goes out to you. Our young stud (coming 3 now) had 3 chokes in 6 weeks last fall. If you PT me I can tell you what we did and had to do-we have a lot of expertise in this area, and how we manage him now.

Miracle is still off dry hay and still being fed 5 times a day. When we get grass he will be turned out on that-we still have snow. He does get chopped hay (we hand cut it) soaked. You can buy Denji (around us it is about $15/cube).

As I read through the posts, and I may have missed it, I did not see where your vet had initially recommended that he be sedated. When Mir even had his first choke-it was hay, he was sedated as this relaxes the muscles (upper ones) of the throat. The theory being that it will "release" the choke and it will enter the stomach.

Even when we had to take him into the vet school they did that (sedation) first before they tried to reduce the choke. He was also put on IV fluids (I did it on the farm and it was done at the vet school) as they can become dehydrated quickly.

We had him on a gruel for 8 weeks, no bedding, no turnout-hand walking only, no grass. As it sounds in your case, the vets finally concluded-or theorized that the other two chokes were b/c of the irritation from the intial choke. In fact by the wtime we were done with the third one, he could not even whinny.

As for colic prevention-we also added mineral oil to his mixture. We used Blue Seal Senior and some of our sweet-we have a custom mix, as well as M.O. and some corn oil (fat).

We did not and have not had an issue with impaction. He did however have aspriation Pneumonia from the last one-which your guy may have or get and had to be on antibiotics.

Miracle is now on dry feed, still fed 5 times a day and the wet hay a few times a day WITH the feed. I have give him a handful or two of dry hay as a "treat".

Hope your horse is doing better.

[Kiwayu]

UPDATE (Tuesday Morning): Well Kiwayu passed another poop pile sometime between 12am-6am. It was still dry. I got permission to give him a VERY soupy bran mash with lots of salt and mineral oil. He ate it like he hasn't eatten in years. He is still coughing during/after he eats. The vet said that it's a dry cough, is lungs are clear, and to just keep monitoring him temperature. I'll be checking on him every 1-2 hours, so hopefully the poop fairy will come again soon. I'll keep you updated!

Classicsporthorses- Kiwayu was sedated as soon as the vet came out for the choke. Once I get a chance to nap and somewhat relax, I will try to PT you. Thanks.

[Susan P]

The Poop Fairy cometh. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Kiwayu]

Still no poop at 11:45am, since sometime between 12am-6am. Ahhhh...this is driving me nuts! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif He did eat a small bran/senior mash LOADED with mineral oil, electrolytes and water. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Come on Poop Fairy!!!

[classicsporthorses]

I will look for the PT. remember he has not really eaten a lot over the last while so he will probably poop less.

I know with Miracle, even when we were first intially feeding him more times per day then we are now, he would eat his poop.

Take a deep breath, it's going to be okay.

[Mary in Area 1]

I'm jingling like crazy for you. Isn't it funny how sometimes poop is worth more than it's weight in gold? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[McVillesMom]

Hoping like crazy that everything "comes out" all right! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PS Glad to hear that Mango's doing well!

[Finnegan]

Usually when they're in impaction colic doesn't the vet lube & tune (oil the snot out of them; way more than they will eat voluntarily)? And then do it again so many hours later if no joy? As well as IV fluids? Just checking, as this is what we did.

If he' hooked up to IV fluids then it's a bit late to try and drink himself into hydration (unless it was just for support), but put as much salt into his soupy feed as he will tolerate or syringe salt (melted with some warm water) down him (we're talking 4-5 tbls each shot).

Our 31 year old choked 8 days ago on chewed up carrot (that formed a big wad in this esophoegus). He's been on soupy hay pellet & senior feed (soaked for a minimum of 4 hours) at 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm, 11pm. The vet came out and had to tube him to flush the wad through, but afterwards his throat was very tender. He was put on Tucoprim just in case he may have asperated any water. But he's fine now. I hope your Kiwi pulls through his impaction. Here's hoping for poop!!

~Bev

[Kiwayu]

We had another *small* pile at 12:30pm (still very dry)!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My vet wanted to tube Kiwi yesterday ONLY if he would tolerate it without sedation because he was sedated on Friday. Of course he didn't tolerate it. He barely tolerated the clipper to prepare for the IV. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif We think between the sedation on Friday (it slows the system down a lot), the stress he was going through (he's TB so he had extra stess), and the weather changes, that he caused himself an impaction. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Phaxxton]

It's also possible that he wasn't drinking enough due to having a sore throat after choke. My STB is prone to choke and, like your vet recommended, we only give small, soaked meals for a few days afterwards. That doesn't mean they're drinking enough, though. It's possible that contributed.

If he's passing piles at all, that's a good sign, even if they are still dry. How is his water intake?

He likely wasn't eating as much either after the choke (was probably swollen / sore), so it's also possible that not as much as usual will come out.

But good luck and I'm sending lots of jingles his way. This crazy weather we've had certainly can't be helping!! I hope he has a very fast recovery!

[Sobriska]

Big Jingles coming your way

[Kiwayu]

Well Kiwayu made a total of 3 piles today as of 7:15 tonight. They're not up to my standards yet, but at least piles are being made! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I'm really hoping the poop fairy will deliver me lots of poop over the course of the night. I'm going to check on him one more time before I go to bed. Please keep the jingles coming for more poop!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Susan P]

That is so cool, you won't complain about cleaning his stall. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[Kiwayu]

WEDNESDAY UPDATE:
Well Kiwayu had a total of 3 piles from 10:30pm last night to about 11am this morning. Not enough to make me happy, but I do see some mineral coming out. He's very "down in the dumps". I wish he'd be back to himself by trying to break out of his stall or hanging his head over his gate trying to grab my coat. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif All I know is that if he's not almost completely normal by tomorrow or Friday, I'm probably going to have the vet pull blood like she suggested. He hasn't drank any water and is now protesting any mashes or soaked foods. He's always hated soaked hay, and bran mashes, or even senior mashes, but I need this horse to take in water. Anyone have any suggestions? Ohh, and he has a salt block & mineral block that he's never touched in 4 years. If you put salt in his feed, he won't eat anything.

Susan P- I never complain about a dirty stall, at this rate I'm complaining about a clean one.

[ChocoMare]

Still jingling!

I would really start syringing thick, salty water into his face. Syringe, after syringe. If you've got a turkey baster, use that. Better yet, see if you can get ahold of a Ranvet Drench Gun (http://www.horsesuppliesdirect.com.au/prod271.htm). I bought one from my vet just for this purpose. It's easy to use and you get a lot more down the throat. However, in the essence of time, go with the biggest syringe you have handy or the turkey baster.

Keep us posted as best you can. We're here for you!!!

[2 tbs]

Ok, choke can cause some serious damage to the esophagus so it's possible it really hurts and anything he puts down there just hurts him - poor guy!

Have you tried any mashes from Equine Edibles? They have a candy cane mash-which is my horsies favorite! as well as mashes for all kinds of things http://equineedibles.com/index2.html I just LOVE their pre-made mash just add water convenience! and the horses love the tastes.

Just cuz he has a salt/mineral block doesn't mean he's licking them. What about acculytes? Or any electrolyte for that matter. They come in a paste as well as a powder. Have you considered stress/banamine induced ulcers? My guy had them and gastro guard (though very pricey) was like a miracle!

Good luck and jingles that it's nothing serious and he's back to his normal self soon!

[Posting Trot]

An electrolyte paste is a good idea. Have you tried adding a little apple juice to his water? It might get him interested in drinking.

Good luck.

[Robyn]

My 28 year old gelding coliced earlier this winter and the vet said to get more water into him. Duh. He was already getting soupy beet pulp every morning, but he wasn't drinking much besides that. First I tried putting maple syrup in his water, which he loved. Hubby didn't like me "wasting" his maple syrup on old horse. Since then I've been taking a full bucket of water up to him every morning with about a quarter to a half cup of sugar added to it. I asked my vet about it and she said that as long as he doesn't have any metabolic problems, cushings, insulin resistance, etc, that the sugar shouldn't be a problem. So every morning I'm taking him the sugar water and he feels very special since he's the only one who gets ithttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Loves it so much he doesn't even come up for air - just slurps it right down.
Robin

&lt;&lt;Less is not more. More is More!&gt;&gt;

[Phaxxton]

Kiwayu - How's he doing? And how are YOU doing? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have had some luck getting horses to drink by putting a big bottle of gatorade (32 oz) into their water buckets - whatever flavor they like best (my arabian prefers fruitpunch, lol). Also, you can do the same thing with soda or sugar like Robyn suggested.

[Susan P]

I stopped by my farm (we don't have a house there yet) and my old horse looked so thin againg this spring now the the coat is shedding. I thought I'd give him an extra meal and a smaller dinner. I thought it would be better. I added a little cold water to a small portion of beet pulp and a few oats which is what he eats. It didn't soak for long but the portion was so small I thought it wouldn't hurt and there was plenty of water in it.

Don't you know he started to choke. I couldn't believe it. There wasn't that much food there. He did that almost right away. It was a relatively small choke which he recovered from on his own. I could tell it wasn't like some others he's had. But I thought of Kiwayu. I also thought how lucky I was that I never had to go through all you have. I'm hoping for a very poopy stall for you to clean very soon. You need some relief too. Jingles and even better...prayers.

[Barnfairy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chocomare: I would really start syringing thick, salty water into his face. Syringe, after syringe. If you've got a turkey baster, use that. Better yet, see if you can get ahold of a Ranvet Drench Gun. I bought one from my vet just for this purpose. It's easy to use and you get a lot more down the throat. However, in the essence of time, go with the biggest syringe you have handy or the turkey baster. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Chocomare, I know you posted this with all the best intentions. But for the benefit of anyone who happens to be lurking here and who may not know better, I want to warn them about the dangerous risks of forcing water into a horse orally.

In forcing liquid into a horse's mouth, either by syringe, turkey baster, or drench gun, especially if squirted into the right side of the mouth while holding the head up, you may inadvertantly force the water into the trachea instead of the esophagus, leading to aspiration pneumonia. I have known animals (horse and cows) which have died from this despite being put on antibiotics. This is especially a strong risk for a horse that has recently suffered choke.

Additionally, if the horse is truly impacted and the digestive system is not moving food along, if you add too much liquid to the horse's stomach at once --providing it gets to the stomach and not the lungs-- you could cause it to burst.

Vets administer water/mineral oil to a horse via nasal/gastric tube, ensuring direct delivery to the stomach. The N/G tube allows the vet to check for gas and gastric reflux.

Sorry for the "lecture", but please consult a vet before forcing liquid into a horse. If you must use a drenching gun or the like for liquid medicines, squirt into the left side of the mouth.

[Barnfairy]

Still jingling for Kiwayu!

[Buffyblue]

IV fluids can be a real life-saver. My friend's horse coliced for a couple of days straight and the vet came out every day with LOTS of IV fluids for him to get him through the crisis. Good luck!

[Kiwayu]

Another UPDATE:

Well, he's eatting a bit more, but not like he normally does. I've been working him up slowly, but his appetite isn't what it normally is. He normally sucks down afalfa cubes, but now he's not that interested in them. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif Of course that was my only good way of getting water into this horse. He's still NQR. And what really has me worried is that he's still coughing A LOT. Tomorrow is 6 days after the choke, so how long should I expect to hear him coughing??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif The really weird thing is that he mainly coughs when he's just standing around outside in his paddock, on crossties or just doing nothing. Then in between him coughing he moves his mouth side to side like something is "stuck" or "caught". I just don't get it. I'd understand if he was coughing while eating hay or something like that because it's probably irritatiing. When the vet was here last (for IV fluids) she listened to his lungs-clear, and tried to make him cough and he wouldn't. Then while she was watching him the first few minutes of him with the IV, he just started hacking away. She said it's a dry cough, but why is he doing it????

He did have a total of 8 piles from 10:30am to 8pm. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've never been so happy to see poop in my life!!!

Kiwayu HATES salt! I've tried putting apple juice, molasses, carrots, apples, etc into his water buckets with no success of him drinking. If I'm to put electrolytes in his feed, he won't eat. This has always been an issue with him. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Who ever said that animals relieve stress, because I think they cause more! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ChocoMare]

Barnfairy: I agree. I should have clarified myself but I guess I got in a hurry over concern for K. Excellent advice as to the caution you should use. But since K despises salt, it probaby wouldn't go over very well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

We'll just keeping jingling for Kiwayu (and his mommy who'd better be taking care of herself too [i know it's hard...been there] 'cause we loff her)

((((((((((((((((((((Big Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))

[Phaxxton]

Kiwayu - it sounds like he is still choking / has a blockage (or is choking again, but less severely). If he is moving his mouth around like that and still coughing. The coughing should pretty much subside right away - not go on for 6 days. It could also be that his throat is rather swollen from the incident. How long did it take him to clear the blockage? The vet did it, right? Is it possible the tools the vet used irritated his throat more?

Has the vet checked out his throat recently, since he's still coughing?

Is it possible he had / is having some sort of allergic reaction to something that is causing his throat to swell? That could explain the first instance of choke and also his continuing lack of interest in his feed and the coughing...

[Barnfairy]

Kiwayu: About the coughing -- it sounds like irritation. M was still coughing for three weeks after his February choke incident, less and less as time passed, and he definitely was not choking for that duration. All the n/g tubing/endoscopy really did a number on his throat. It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep taking Kiwayu's temp on a regular basis (like once a day, if you're not already doing so) to be on the safe side, just in case anything else is brewing (God forbid!! He's been through enough!)

On M's most recent (and final http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) choke episode, the vet thought that there was something stuck on the flap of the epiglottis itself, a spot that would be difficult to lavage away with the n/g tube. 'Might be worth asking your vet about just in case anything is lingering there. edited to add: Regarding irritation vs. genuine choke, the biggest tip off that M was choking and not just irritated was the stream of saliva that would run out of his nostrils.

I think keeping up with the IV fluids until Kiwayu's general attitude picks back up again is really your best course of action right now. There are preparations out there that might ease the dry cough, but I wouldn't recommend pumping anything else into Kiyawu for the time being. He reminds me a bit of my TB Southerly; any little problem would tick off a whole chain reaction of events because he is so sensitive. If I try putting any meds in his feed, Suth won't eat for days afterwards.

[amdfarm]

When my mare choked and even after two hours of work to get it dislodged, she didn't cough once her esophogus was cleared, nor did she try to whinny. Her throat was very irritated, but drinking seem to sooth it, so it was not an issue.

My guess is the alfalfa cubes, even soaked are irritating for him. My mare liked soaked beet pulp shreds and strategy, I mixed them together and soaked them together so the pellets would soften to mush.

Yes, he needs to eat, but he also needs to drink. Your vet would be the best one to ask in this matter. All horses are individual and some can be much more difficult than others.

L.

[Barnfairy]

I just remembered: Ulcers! Yawing of the jaw can be a symptom of ulcers / irritation of the gastrointestinal lining.

When Suth came down with lymphangitis two summers ago, and I was treating him with massive amounts of drugs, he developed ulcers. I was lucky that this occurred during early summer when we had access to lush green grass -- a natural elixer for ulcers.

I know you probably don't have any grass available. Perhaps you could find an appealing bale of clean green soft second cut grass hay?

[Kiwayu]

I've been taking Kiwayu's temperature 3x daily (breakfast/lunch/dinner), just to be on the safe side. Yes, I know I'm paranoid! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif I'm going to be calling the vet very soon to give an update and to question her about this cough. He's been scoped for ulcers-has the most beautiful stomach the vet has ever seen!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I'll let you know what the vet says. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[Kiwayu]

Thursday Morning:

Waiting for the vet to call back. He still looked kinda "blah" this morning. Hasn't touched his water buckets since Monday night. He didn't finish the 2 *small* flakes of wet hay I gave him last night. He did eat his grain and about 95% of his hay cubes though.

[Kiwayu]

Spoke to the vet. She wants to put him on antibiotics for awhile. He did get penicillin the first day, but the vet stopped it because she didn't think it was truly needed. So now we'll see. Hopefully he'll eat them otherwise she'll give me injectible. I think I need to win lotto just to pay these bills...geez.

[2 tbs]

Ok, you said he doesn't like wet things or mooshy things right? Is it possible he's not eating cuz he just doesn't want to put that goo into his mouth (it's hardly goo but I know I exaggerate when I don't like something!)

What happens if you hand him a small (couple pieces) of dry hay? Does he show interest? What about carrots (cut into really small pieces) or apples even? I know it's probably been discussed on the board before but what about bananans? Horses seem to like them very much and a banana is VERY soft and easy to swallow.

I'm thinking something natural but edible on a sore esophagus might be helpful since he doesn't like the wet normal foods. But then again, if he doesn't like applesauce... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

I wish I could offer a sure fire solution. I hope the antibiotics do the trick - poor guy needs to get ready for spring grass soon!!!

[Kiwayu]

Of course I just went to the barn to feed Kiwi dinner before I leave for school and he's in his stall (he has an in/out to a paddock) lying down! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif He never lays down....I would only see him lay down around 4-5am. So now, since I'm on my way to school I have a friend checking in on him in about an hour. What next? What is wrong with him???? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Buffyblue]

The fact that he hasn't touched his water buckets since Monday would really scare me! How are his respirations and heart rate? Are his hooves cool? Gums pink with a good capillary refill? Is your vet coming out?

[Barnfairy]

Oh Kiwayu, I'm so sorry. It does sound like another visit from the vet is in order. In the meantime, ditto on checking all his vitals, capillary refill, & doing skin-pinch dehydration test.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm drowning in vet bills right now too...so you're not alone! {{{hug}}} http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[frugalannie]

Kiwayu, jingling for you.

As it's St. Paddy's Day, have you tried giving him a nip of Guiness? It's actually pretty high in electrolytes, and if he likes the taste, it'll disguise a myriad of other stuff in the feed. Like maybe Gatorade.

Just a thought to prime the pump and get him drinking again.

[Kiwayu]

I started the anitbiotics tonight-tucoprim. Hopefully this will get rid of the cough and whatever else is wrong with him. I'm giving him 3 days of antibiotics and if I see no sign of improvement, I'm going to have the vet come down to pull blood. I received my vet bill in the mail today from both friday & saturday's visits. It came to $710. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif The antibiotics weren't included. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif I'll let you know if he decides to add to my vet bill... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

ohh, and gadorade in the water didn't work. He didn't even like plan gadorade out of my hand. He spit it out once he licked it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Anymore ideas to get him to drink?

[McVillesMom]

No great ideas to get him to drink, sorry...but if he may continue to need IV fluids (which as long as he isn't drinking, he might) would your vet be willing to place an IV catheter that you could give the fluids yourself? Might save some $$$ if she doesn't have to come out every time. Just a thought.

[Susan P]

I have an idea. I think soaked alfafa cubes still is rough but soaked pellets may be equal to the finest mash. I say, try a pelleted feed and soak it very well, generous water. If you can find Progressive Nutrition it is a highly fortified, high quality product otherwise just get something in him. I think a pelleted alfafa might work if the pellets are soaks until they are mush, it has to be smoother than the cubes.

Just something that came to mind, I hope it works.

And I vote for paste electrolytes.

[Buffyblue]

I've been known to spike water with either molasses, or Kool-Aid (the kind with the sugar already in it). I've also made a horse version of green tea, using only 3-4 alfalfa cubes, and hot water in a small bucket. By the time it cools to drinking temperature the cubes should be totally disintegrated and you have warm tea!

[gabz]

For drinking ... try pepsi, coke, or something similar (not diet - you want the horse to get the sugars and sodium). More soda than water to start.
Corn syrup or molasses added to water.

Brown sugar added to bran mash and hot water with several spoonfuls of salt. VERY soupy. I start with about 3 measuring cups of wheat bran, 1/2 cup of brown sugar. Flood with warm water. This has helped several horses I know of... we also have added a handful of pelleted feed to it - but very soupy.
Crushed up peppermints (candy-cane kind) added to warm water or the mash.
watermelon?
Smash the alfalfa cubes (use a rubber feed pan and a hammer) then soak. Add molasses & salt.

If you have an empty wormer tube or similar... put corn syrup in it. Get him used to getting SOMETHING with the syringe ... than start adding salt to the corn syrup and leaving super fresh, warmed water for him.

Thermos jugs work good for carrying warm water if you don't have it in the barn. Thermos jugs are also good for mixing the mashes / cubes in - it helps them "steep" until you feed them.

Apple juice to the water.
If it seems he is avoiding anything cold or sweet - then he could very well have stress-induced ulcers starting... in which case - some mylanta or tums (ground fine in blender) might help.
You can use the salt in the round cardboard containers that you use in the kitchen.

best wishes for a successful outcome... watch/feel his feet - keep them cool ...

AND... try some massage. His poll (there are 2 lumps between his ears - the "atlas) try massaging that. Also all around his withers and up his neck. and you need to relax when you are around him too... horses can read off of us.

[Kiwayu]

FRIDAY MORNING UPDATE:
Things look much brighter today!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif He actually drank 1.5" of his 5 gallon bucket over the course of the night-yes, I know, not enough, but it's something. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He's even got his personality back. I'm sooo happy. Now we just need to keep it this way through the weekend so I know whatever it was it's over. I think I'm going try the brown sugar idea. I haven't tried that yet. I'm kinda afraid to give horses soda because of the carbon dioxide added, which I feel it can lead to gas colic. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've always been afraid of this.

Well keep your fingers crossed that all continues to go well. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Phaxxton]

So glad to hear good news!!

gabz has a really good point about stress induced ulcers. You could try to give him a syringe of pepto-bismol to settle his stomach. His stomach was still producing acid for digestion even though he wasn't eating, so he could have somewhat of an upset stomach... That might help.Brown sugar sounds like a good idea to help him drink. I've never tried it, but I bet he'd like it.

I forgot when I posted about the gatorade that, whenever I do something like that with water, I always have two buckets - plain water and the "special" water -- in case they decide they want plain water more. Because, of course, when you do something "special" for them, that is when they will want the plain stuff! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I would not give him anything with salt, since he's still not really drinking. It didn't make him drink earlier, so I'd not add too much more. It can dehydrate him more if he still doesn't drink - and it can throw off his system (as the salt balance is a fairly delicate one).

I know I'm repeating what I wrote on the other thread... Just in case someone reads only this thread.

But, again, GOOD NEWS! YAY!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ChocoMare]

Oh hooray!!! See prayers & jingles do work!!!

Come on Kiwi! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Irish Ei's]

If he's starting to drink on his own, don't starting adding attractants.Keep it simple....and hold the line...

[Barnfairy]

Oh, yaaaay, I'm so glad. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think you're right to stay away from the soda. Like Irish Ei's said, keep it simple, and stick to things you know he likes right now to minimize further digestive upset.

[gabz]

I am glad that things are looking up. As he begins to eat again, discuss with your vet about a pro- or pre-biotic (or yogurt) to help him reestablish the proper bacteria & enzymes in his digestive system.

I would, however, like to explain the "soda" thing. Many years ago, coke syrup (not coke the fizzy drink) was used to soothe baby's tummies. While the carbonation may not be helpful, it is taken away or lessened by stirring and mixing it with water. What's left are the essentials that are similar to what's given in IV fluids - glucose (sugar) and sodium (salt) with the cola syrup. And to further explain, adding 1/2 can or bottle (6 - 8 ounces) of soda to 2 gallons of water more or less enhances the smell and taste of the water to entice the horse to drink it. It's another way of flavoring the water.

My understanding of salt is that is causes the body to retain water? And by adding salt, the horse is encouraged to drink more water - which is why when giving electrolytes it is so important to also provide plain water. Yes?

Anyway ... as K said, Kiwayu hates salt so it's a moot point either way. ; )

[Phaxxton]

There is more to the salt balance than that... Forcing the horse to take in more salt than he is choosing can throw off the salt balance and can dehydrate the horse more. That's why they want you to provide water - the horse will need to take in more water with more salt/electrolytes to handle them properly. If, however, the horse is continuing to refuse to drink after giving it salt/electrolytes, giving them more salt / electrolytes will not help. It can, however, hurt...

RE: soda - the coke thing is really interesting. The nurse in my junior high (way back when, lol) said to always stir the bubbles out, though, because the carbonation can increase stomach irritation (well, in humans, anyway)... Also, I'm pretty sure dumping soda into water will pretty much get rid of all the carbonation!

[Kiwayu]

I was giving Mylanta while he was refusing to eat, as per vet. He was recently scoped, so I know he *shouldn't* have ulcers.

Phaxxton- When I try putting anything in the water (such as gadorade), I ALWAYS provide one bucket of plain water. I've also heard & tried for myself the soda without carbonation. It works, but I'm still afraid to try it with horses. I guess I'm just paranoid. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Lets keep the good thoughts that all is well throughout the weekend.

[Susan P]

Great news! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[gdolapp]

New here but this is what I did when my horse
choked. I have had this horse for 4 1/2 years
he was green when I got him I finished
him and some where along the line I was
drinking water out of a plastic bottle he got curiouse I had about a quarter of a bottle left
so I stuck it up to his mouth tipped the bottle
up and he actually drank the water out of the
bottle. I continued to do this on a regular basis and was glad I did. I came home one afternoon he was standing with his head down
I went up to him and could here him
weezing ran in the house took a one liter
pop bottle filled it with warm water and
headed out to him he started drinking and with
his neck out stretched dislodged a hay ball.
They say you can lead a horse to water but you
can't make them drink well mine will drink
out of a bottle anytime and I am gratefull for that.

[Posting Trot]

You should never give a horse who is choking water or feed. I'm glad that it worked out in gdolapp's case, but there's a real possibility that the water or feed will not dislodge the bolus of whatever that is causing the choke and will end up in the lungs, where it will cause pneumonia.

[Phaxxton]

posting trot is right - giving water or feed to a horse who is choking increases the possibility of the feed / water aspirating... and causing serious lung problems like pneumonia.

[Kiwayu]

It's funny you guys say that because when I called the emergency number Friday night while my horse was choking, my vet told me to take a hose, or a suringe, and squirt up Kiwayu's mouth with water. She also said to message the throat. I didn't feel comfortable squirting anything up there and didn't, just messaged it, while I waited for her to come.

[Goldylox]

Someone may have already suggested this and if I missed it I'm sorry.
The 31 year old had a choke fit several years back. Very, very scary...
After vet had him somewhat back to normal, we thought to check his back teeth.

He had been left to fend for himself and the teeth had not been done for years.

Did the vet check to see if there is a sore tooth? Or a problem chewing in the very back of his mouth?

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif(You have certainly not abandoned your boy!) Sounds like you are doing your best and more to be on top of everything!

This was the problem with the retiree. Teeth in the back were very, very long and he couldn't chew anything properly.
It took a lot of dental work and now every 5 months we have him checked.
This horse didn't want to eat after his choke either, but then he didn't colic.
If vet thinks it's safe, try some Fastrack mixed in with whatever you can think of to temp him. That Fastrack seemed to make him want to drink more.
The older horse was and still is a poor water drinker. He loves Fastrack on top of his Senior and soaked till runny alfalfa cubes and rice bran. All huge mess, but at 31 I think he is more than entitled....
He is now on Fasttrack, electrolites and Blue Green Algae per vet suggested 2 times a day.
One last suggestion....we are now feeding him from a rubber feed tub on the ground.
Vet said if there was another problem, having his head down while he ate would encourage him to try and cough it up since his head would already be down.
Good luck! Your horse is super lucky to have a great caretaker! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Phaxxton]

Kiwayu - I've heard many people suggest that, but the bottom line is that it's just dangerous IMHO. Obviously, I'm not a vet, so I'm in no position to second guess yours... but I really think that using a hose to clear a blockage can be disastrous. If you don't know what you're doing (and even if you do), it's way, way too easy to aspirate water or food/debris into the lungs. That's the danger of choke - aspiration, which can lead to serious problems. I see the same problem w/ massasing his throat. The blockage is in the esophogus, so the horse is not in danger of suffocating. It's best to take all food / water away and let the horse try to clear it on their own. If they can't clear it on their own, I'd have the vet come down, like you did... but I wouldn't try to manually clear the blockage myself. (Certainly, choke can cause irritation and other problems in the esophogus, but that's usually not as dangerous as pnuemonia and other lung problems...)

Keep them as calm as possible, keep the head low if you can, and just leave them until the vet gets there (if needed).

BTW, how is Kiwayu doing? Continuing to improve, I hope!!

[Posting Trot]

This is from the Merck Vet Manual online: "Treatment:
In horses, many cases of obstruction caused by greedily eaten grain or hay may resolve spontaneously. The horse should be held off feed and water, and mild sedation and smooth muscle relaxants may be effective."

[Kiwayu]

Kiwayu is doing okay. His attitude has pretty much returned, but he's still not back to his "pooping schedule" where he's pooping the same amount as before this whole ordeal ocurred. That has me a little concerned. I really need to get this horse to drink and I don't know how to do that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif I haven't heard him cough in about 2 days (except for one little cough today), so maybe the antibiotics are working??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Once he's done with the antibiotics, if he's not back to his completely normal self, I'm having the vet come do spring shots early (if the vet thinks he can handle them) and pull blood work. I don't know if I'm just being paranoid, but something is telling me that he's still just a little "off". I'm sure you guys know what I mean.

[Phaxxton]

Is he back to his regular eating routine? If not, he's not going to be back to his regular pooping routine... if it's not going in, it can't come out.

As for drinking, maybe just try nothing for now. Has he been drinking at all? If he is and he's not terribly dehydrated, I'd just leave the plain, clean, fresh water for him and wait it out another day or two...

SO frustrating, I know! I'm glad he's doing somewhat better, though!

[Kiwayu]

Phaxxton- He is back to his normal eating routine except I'm still with holding any treats. He gets unlimited hay, with a 1/4 pound equine senior 2x daily (w/supplements), and a few alfalfa cubes soaked in an 8 quart bucket 3x daily. He's just not pooping like he was, which is why I'm a little concerned.

[amdfarm]

Silly question, how's his urine output? If he's peeing, he's getting fluid from somewhere.

Again, don't worry about the small or less frequent poop piles. If I remember right, it takes 48 hours +/- to get from one end to the other. Give him time. If he's eating well, it'll eventually come out. And if his poop is moist, well another sign of fluid intake.

L.

[Kiwayu]

Today's update:
Things were looking great today. Eating well, pooping almost normally, but then I fed dinner and caught Kiwi hacking up a lung again. WTF??? I just don't get it. I hadn't heard him cough since Thursday, which is when I started the antibiotics. Today is day 4 of the antibiotics, if they're going to do anything, shouldn't it have started to work by now??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Why would he not cough for the past 2-3 days, and then start again? Unless I'm just not catching him coughing??? What on earth do I do now? He has no temperature, and otherwise he's 99% back to normal.

Advice????

His urine output is fine, but his poop isn't as moist as I'd like to see it.

[Nancy DeMarco]

Even after the bug causing the disease is killed, it takes time for the respiratory passages to heal and for the accumulated gunk to be cleared. Four days isn't a long time. Just keep in touch with the vet and keep monitoring, but if he seems to be progressing in other ways, and doesn't have a fever, I wouldn't worry.

[Kiwayu]

I've decided to wait until I finish the antibiotics, which I'm guessing is about another 3-4 days. If I still hear him coughing once they're done, I will phone the vet. It's been 10 days since the choke though, and the vet felt that any irritation, that would cause him to cough, should be gone. I don't know...horses are so freakin complicated. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[amdfarm]

He is drinking some then, so I wouldn't worry too much. As for the cough, can you get him outside? That might be better for him than being in a dusty barn that would only cause more irritation.

Antibiotics course is generally 10 days. My mare was put on it the same day of her choke just in case.

L.

[Kiwayu]

He's always outside. He has a paddock attached to his stall, so it's up to him whether or not he goes out. He was on penicillin at first the day of the choke, we stopped it, and now he's on tucoprim.

[ChocoMare]

Any updates on The Great Kiwi? Been thinkin' about you and him, so wanted to check. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif