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MBS
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:10 AM
Some sent me this email Is it true???


Guess who was ARRESTED last night for parole violations and possesion of
cocaine? Yup, KEN KRAUS!!!!!! He even made the 11:00 O'clock news
being led away in handcuffs.
Apparently the PB police did a sweep of all known sex offenders after
that girl was kidnapped a few weeks ago, and I guess ol' Kenny just let
himself get swept up in the net. While on one hand I am happy to see the
reason he got nabbed was for cocaine .... *edited by request of originator ... SoEasy

[This message was edited by SoEasy on Feb. 18, 2004 at 01:15 PM.]

[Edited title to include link to news article, so people can go straight to the factual account - Erin]

[This message was edited by Erin on Feb. 19, 2004 at 06:39 PM.]

MBS
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:10 AM
Some sent me this email Is it true???


Guess who was ARRESTED last night for parole violations and possesion of
cocaine? Yup, KEN KRAUS!!!!!! He even made the 11:00 O'clock news
being led away in handcuffs.
Apparently the PB police did a sweep of all known sex offenders after
that girl was kidnapped a few weeks ago, and I guess ol' Kenny just let
himself get swept up in the net. While on one hand I am happy to see the
reason he got nabbed was for cocaine .... *edited by request of originator ... SoEasy

[This message was edited by SoEasy on Feb. 18, 2004 at 01:15 PM.]

[Edited title to include link to news article, so people can go straight to the factual account - Erin]

[This message was edited by Erin on Feb. 19, 2004 at 06:39 PM.]

Heineken
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:31 AM
I think this is the third or fourth potentially damaging rumor posted in the past three or four days on the H/J forum. While it may or may not be true, I sort of feel like rumors on a public forum are unfair to the people in question. Lets get them CONFIRMED, then start the discussion...

MBS
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:40 AM
OK just to confirm I just called the PB Sheriff's office and YES IT IS TRUE> I don't want to be blamed for starting Rumours

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:51 AM
Well MB Stark that is not a surprise but it is a shame when any human being has sunk so low. He has the potential to be a good person like all of us and chose the wrong path.

I guess we also have proof the the cocaine at Hunter Horse Shows is not a myth at all. Perhaps, we need to consider that there is now an Anti-Doping Committee in the USEF that has jusisdiction over this sort of thing. It's a very good thing that they swept through and found at least some of the potential dangers.

Battle Scarred Veteran

LH
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:03 AM
Really, it's a shame that some of you have chosen to judge him. Perhaps this is someone with an addiction that has overwhelmed him? Just perhaps . . .

Thank god my personal lapses in judgment have not been the subject of public scrutiny!

And to be so harsh about someone who is truly trying to give back to the industry with the website -- for which he is not paid a nickel.

I'm not defending illegal conduct, but suggesting that judgment should be reserved.

clearound
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Well MB Stark that is not a surprise but it is a shame when any human being has sunk so low. He has the potential to be a good person like all of us and chose the wrong path.

I guess we also have proof the the cocaine at Hunter Horse Shows is not a myth at all. Perhaps, we need to consider that there is now an Anti-Doping Committee in the USEF that has jusisdiction over this sort of thing. It's a very good thing that they swept through and found at least some of the potential dangers.

_Battle Scarred Veteran_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee Snowbird, time to wake up. Cocaine is present in all walks of life - from the homeless to Wall Street, from car mechanics to brain surgeons. It is not just used by people who participate in horse shows. And, btw, I don't think that there was any mention that it was present at the horse show. I am so sick of reading post after post from "holier than thou" people who are so quick to judge and condemn.

If he is in fact guilty, I am certainly not condoning this behavior. However, if people would put as much effort in finding the positive in everyone rather than the negative, perhaps this world would be a better place to live

Heidi
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:14 AM
LH, you are clearly a better person than I.

I don't find it that difficult to judge someone who's been convicted of one of the most heinous crimes imaginable, who's just been arrested for drug posession, whose 'contribution' to the sport more resembles an ego trip than anything tangibly helpful.

MBS
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:28 AM
I know this person has been discussed to death but I still wonder when SOME OF YOU will wake up and smell the coffee. A leopard doesnt change his spots.

This is a Convicted Sex offender with a Drug Problem who tries to impress you with his website. And Obviously does. That is like saying that Priest give a wonderful sermon so get over his "problems" with little boys
WAKE UP

I know that some of MY friends defend him but I know some children of abuse and my sister is a social worker that works with children and I am NOT that forgiving.

[This message was edited by MB Stark on Feb. 18, 2004 at 12:44 PM.]

Heineken
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:29 AM
I'm making no excuses for Ken with my earlier post...just trying to get some factual confirmation that the events as described occurred. And if they did, I'm with Heidi...what a pig!

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:32 AM
This is the world I have chosen in which to participate because of the beautiful loving and forgiving horses that bring us so much joy. I cannot fix the cocaine problem except by trying to help raise generations of young people in a safe place so they don't have the need for any addictions other that good sport.

One of the things we get on a regular basis is a natural high from an adrenilen rush when ever we compete. What we don't need in this sport which is all I can have an opinion on is people who believe that cocaine use is a not an avoidable problem. Why is it important? because when someone sets themselves up as a role model for others then they cannot fall off the pedastal without leaving a gapping hole.

As a human I can be sympathetic to some hapless soul caught up in a vile life style. I can try and help them to get clean. Do I want such a person out there on a daily basis propogating that weakness as not so bad with excuses NO!

I do not feel self-righteous because I am far from perfect and certainly have my own flaws. But, they are mine and they do not affect anyone else but me. I would not attempt to convert others into joining me and believing they are not flaws.

I don't think anyone is judging KK and I would guess at this point he is his own worst judge. We do as humans need to learn from our mistakes and those of others. A public record of such is how we get to do that, and if it means that the children learn that any hero may have feet of clay that is for the best. We have certainly seen many of the heros fall on their faces and it was a good thing for the children.

Battle Scarred Veteran

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:45 AM
If he doesn't get a dime from his website, then why the membership fee? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:49 AM
Cocaine is sooo 1990's, being that he is a Hunter Announcer he should stay with fashion just like the rest of us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

OnyxThePony
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:49 AM
NO surprise there http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I know we're supposed to feel sorry for those people (yes the worst kind of sex offenders, drunks and coke addicts) b/c they are obviously very very sick and very obviously need help. I just wonder WHEN we're going to give the sicko's help.

Our comunity, like so many, offers to discuss, hide, suspend, judge, condemn, accept.. but nowhere to offer a real program of 'help'. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

sittin on the dock of the bay...

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:50 AM
That is too bad he got busted for coke, but what he does on his own time is up to him and i really dont care. It really wont change my opinion that he has worked very hard to make towerheads one of the best, if not the best horse show website.

Maybe its because I was a towerhead before it was a website or because I still moderate their forums, but I feel that a lot of COTH BBers make him out to look a LOT worse then he really is...

That being said, the crime against the minor is terrible and can be very damaging to the victim(i have first hand experience in that case) But i really dont care if he does coke!!!

Lisamarie8
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
Cocaine is sooo 1990's, being that he is a Hunter Announcer he should stay with fashion just like the rest of us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree! Someone buy him a clue and a Loritab!

--- "We're putting you on what we call sudden death academic probation."

Ash
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:51 AM
Why is he on parole? (I have a feeling I am going to be sorry I asked)

************************************************** **********
"I'm not going to have reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."
-- Hilary Clinton

Heineken
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:53 AM
Hey Onyx...ever dealt with a substance abuser before? Or someone with an eating disorder?

"We" as a "community" can offer all the help "we" want...the person with the problem has to WANT the help. Treatment of these issues is NEVER easy. So blaming "us" for not helping is not helpful. "We" choose to be involved in THIS sport, and its up to us to keep OUR own noses clean. But if Joe Schmoe has a problem and doesn't want to deal with it, there really isn't a whole lot "we" can do other than fine them, arrest them etc.

SoEasy
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:59 AM
Ash ... he is a convicted sex offender listed on Florida's web site.

OnyxThePony
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hey Onyx...ever dealt with a substance abuser before? Or someone with an eating disorder <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

?????
Yes.... and...huh??

I'll give an example of 'help'.
My daughter wants to join his website. I as a parent, very firmly say, NO F'ing WAY. I refuse to support his habit.

sittin on the dock of the bay...

Magnolia
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:02 AM
Good God, the A shows sound more and more like an Aaron Spelling show on Fox than a sporting event!

Did they just check up on him and find cocaine or was there some other parole violation? That seems kind of fishy that they were able to search him for drugs based on an unrelated past incident....

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Heineken
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:05 AM
Onyx, it just sounded like you wanted the general "us" to fix the problem, and in my experience, until someone is ready to get help, there isn't much that "we", any of us, can do to help the person realize they are in trouble.

Kels
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
That is too bad he got busted for coke, but what he does on his own time is up to him and i really dont care. It really wont change my opinion that he has worked very hard to make towerheads one of the best, if not the best horse show website.

Maybe its because I was a towerhead before it was a website or because I still moderate their forums, but I feel that a lot of COTH BBers make him out to look a LOT worse then he really is...

That being said, the crime against the minor is terrible and can be very damaging to the victim(i have first hand experience in that case) But i really dont care if he does coke!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I care if he does coke, because for every one person who does coke, the problem grows. If no one is doing these drugs, then there is no problem.

The problem lies with each individual person- they are all a piece of the greater puzzle.

Anyway, I don't know this guy, but that's my two cents. I can't judge anything else, but I DO care about people doing drugs. It's disgusting and horrible.

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

LimoWrek
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:09 AM
hahahahhahahahahaha

----
Limo Wrek.

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:12 AM
He's on parole........ they can check up on him or anyone else on parole anytime they want to.

Nothing fishy about that at all. It's one of the penalties you pay when you are a parolee.

If you don't want them to check up on you, then don't become a person who is on parole. Very simple concept.

It wasn't just him - law enforcement has been checking up on all the registered sex offenders they can find in certain areas, due to that little girl's recent disappearance.

The scary thing is how many registered sex offenders who are paroled just fall through the cracks and the authorities can't find them.... happens every day.

levremont
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:13 AM
Yeah, really who cares what he does with "children" on his spare time, or that he supports drug traffic...as long as he runs a "fun" website....wow, how sad!

visit us at www.levremont.com (http://www.levremont.com)

MAD
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:14 AM
How do any of you know he didn't ask for help?

And how many of you subscribe to TH? Seems many of you are “Monday Morning Quarterbacking”. And to suggest that coke is so 90's, what are you suggesting, that he start using crack or what is vogue right now?

MB, I know you don't like him, but please leave him alone. We've had this argument before (love you anyway; however, I think in this instance, as Weatherford and I do often on certain subjects, let's agree to disagree). It is not nice to hit a person when they are down.

As for where does the money for the subscription for TH go? It has been hashed over and over, but I believe there are costs associated with running a website...I'm not an expert on the subject. I do know that KK has not "made" money from TH. I happen to know him well, and know this for a fact.

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Guess who was ARRESTED last night for parole violations and possesion of
cocaine? Yup, KEN KRAUS!!!!!! He even made the 11:00 O'clock news
being led away in handcuffs.
Apparently the PB police did a sweep of all known sex offenders after
that girl was kidnapped a few weeks ago, and I guess ol' Kenny just let
himself get swept up in the net. While on one hand I am happy to see the
reason he got nabbed was for cocaine Sorry ... I edited the original and this too SoEasy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is so 90's then we as parents and professionals better take a good look at the environment we've created, I surely hope you're wrong.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[This message was edited by SoEasy on Feb. 18, 2004 at 01:18 PM.]

ponyjumper4
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If he doesn't get a dime from his website, then why the membership fee?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not technically his website. He just runs it. It belongs to some other people who were paying all the costs of it and so they started a fee to help offset those costs.

Adult Pony Rider Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Disgruntled College Student Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
QH Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
NC Clique :P

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
And to suggest that coke is so 90's, what are you suggesting, that he start using crack or what is vogue right now?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*Ahem*

1)Insert tongue in cheek

2) Re-read Nickelodian's post.

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Adelita
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:28 AM
A convicted sex offender who runs a website populated by many kids?!?!?!?

doesn't anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??

&gt;^.,.^&lt;


www.imom.org (http://www.imom.org)
501(c)3 all volunteer organization that helps those who cannot pay for veterinary care for their pets.

CAH
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
How do any of you know he didn't ask for help?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would that be before or after he violated his parole???


Amazing..... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

shade
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:30 AM
It's not nice to hit a person when they are down!!! Oh give me a break...he's on parole..violated that parole..got caught with an illegal substance..did anyone FORCE him to do coke?? Did anyone FORCE him to committ the crime he is on parole for..A BIG NO ON ALL COUNTS. He did all this to himself. And trust me I speak from 1st hand experience. Yes their is help out there but you can't force someone to get help and if you do it won't work. The person has to WANT to get clean etc..until then there is not much we as a society can do except lock him up to keep the rest of us safe. And why can't we judge him? He's the one that violated his parole. He knew the rules it was his choice not to abide by them. I don't know the man at all but just the fact that he is a registered sex offender is enough for me.

OneonOne
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:30 AM
But Adelita, it's a fun website, so it's ok. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

_____________________________________
Any coupon works! Beware of paper cuts!

SillyHorse
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adelita:
A convicted sex offender who runs a website populated by many kids?!?!?!?

doesn't anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um, not really. It's a website, not someone's basement.

This is really distressing to me. I grew up with Kenny, and always liked him. I'm so sorry that his life has gone in such a direction. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SillyHorse
~ You can do anything if you want it bad enough. That is why we see so many people who can fly. ~

MBS
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
How do any of you know he didn't ask for help?

MB, I know you don't like him, but please leave him alone. We've had this argument before (love you anyway; however, I think in this instance, as Weatherford and I do often on certain subjects, let's agree to disagree). _It is not nice to hit a person when they are down._
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Love you too MAD. And I don't hate him. I am from a family that has had substance abuse problems and If he did ask for help and really wants it he MUST change his lifestyle. A recovering alcoholic does not hang out in Bars. And although it is a bit more difficult for him he Should change his career and stay away from Children. I am not saying Sex offenders can't change but statistics show the percentage rate is pretty low. This is just another instance where he was caught breaking the law.

MAD, I hope I see you when I am down in Wellington and we Will NOT discuss this.

Sea Monkey
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:41 AM
His coke habit is a personal problem. Being a convicted sex offender is not.

Coke was more like the eighties. Hello, David Bowie.

Anyway, for all of you people who think it's a simple task to offer help to drug addicts and they'll take you up on the offer, I sympathize your worldliness or lack thereof. There may be a drug war going on, but please tell me who you think is winning.

Linny
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:43 AM
I never really like TH and wouldn't know KK if he walked into my office.

I do however think its odd that most of us on here would avaid buying a home in a neighborhood where a know sex offender lives yet many of us see KK as the "exception" to the rule. We would likley protest a sex offender moving to our development or neighborhood. We'd warn our kids to avoid the "odd man" who lives down the block. Why is KK different? The families and childhood friends of abusers and offenders all have sob stories too but you don't let your kids play in his yard!
Is it because he knows important people in the sport? What separates him from the rest of the registered offender list?

Resident racing historian
Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

Lisamarie8
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sea Monkey:
Coke was more like the eighties. Hello, David Bowie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David "sexyass" Bowie can so do whatever he wants so long as he Leaves the pesky supermodel of a wife and whisks me away.

--- For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.

the eleven
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
Cocaine is sooo 1990's, being that he is a Hunter Announcer he should stay with fashion just like the rest of us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no. 80s.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

Katie
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:50 AM
Why is the TH site so populated by kids? I've enjoyed the site since it was just a results page and but don't currently subscribe for personal reasons. If you don't want your child to have any dealings with a known sex offender, don't leave her at the horse show alone and don't allow her to subcribe to the website.

Parental involvement is the first line of defense for our children!

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by your mom:

no. 80s.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit, I just can't keep my drugs straight. Anyone else know that David Bowie is still touring???? He's even coming to Austin, perhaps he can enlighten us all on the current drug of choice among the rich and famous?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

Lisamarie8
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by your mom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
Cocaine is sooo 1990's, being that he is a Hunter Announcer he should stay with fashion just like the rest of us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no. 80s.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit, I just can't keep my drugs straight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because it's painfully obvious you're hanging out with the WRONG people! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

--- For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.

Sea Monkey
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Dammit, I just can't keep my drugs straight. Anyone else know that David Bowie is still touring???? He's even coming to Austin, perhaps he can enlighten us all on the current drug of choice among the rich and famous?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Defining Drugs by the Decade 101

60s: Marijuana, LSD
70s: Cocaine
80s: Even more coke
90s: Ecstasy
00s: Oxycotin

Heroin is somewhere in there.

ccoronios
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>quote:
------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Adelita:
A convicted sex offender who runs a website populated by many kids?!?!?!?

doesn't anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??
------------------------------------------------
Um, not really. It's a website, not someone's basement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


THAT's scary, SillyHorse. The Internet is used to lure people (adults AND children) into encounters with individuals they consider "friends" all the time. Do they actually KNOW these individuals? No - but they THINK they do, because they're on chatrooms, etc. with them.
I know we can't protect kids from every predator out there, but we sure has H*&^ should protect them from the ones we KNOW.
For those of you who have known him for a long time and consider yourselves his friends, I am sympathetic to YOUR anguish. It is very difficult to watch someone you care about self-destruct.

www.ayliprod.com (http://www.ayliprod.com)
Equine Video and Still Photography in the Northeast

Ash
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SillyHorse:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adelita:
A convicted sex offender who runs a website populated by many kids?!?!?!?

doesn't anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Um, not really. It's a website, not someone's basement.

Sillyhorse-
If you can't see why people would have a problem with a convicted sex offender running a website that many kids frequent, maybe you should check out the DOJ statistics on sex crimes against children and the internet. Here is just a sampling:


One in 5 youth received a sexual approach or solicitation over the Internet in the past year.


One in 33 youth received an aggressive sexual solicitation in the past year. This means a predator asked a young person to meet somewhere, called a young person on the phone, and/or sent the young person correspondence, money, or gifts through the U.S. Postal Service.


One in 4 youth had an unwanted exposure in the past year to pictures of naked people or people having sex.


One in 17 youth was threatened or harassed in the past year.


Most young people who reported these incidents were not very disturbed about them, but a few found them distressing.


Only a fraction of all episodes was reported to authorities such as the police, an Internet service provider, or a hotline.


About 25 percent of the youth who encountered a sexual approach or solicitation told a parent. Almost 40 percent of those reporting an unwanted exposure to sexual material told a parent.


Only 17 percent of youth and 11 percent of parents could name a specific authority, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), CyberTipline, or an Internet service provider, to which they could report an Internet crime, although more indicated they were vaguely aware of such authorities.

************************************************** **********
"I'm not going to have reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."
-- Hilary Clinton

[This message was edited by Ash on Feb. 18, 2004 at 02:29 PM.]

Anyplace Farm
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
Cocaine is sooo 1990's...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please...any drug is so STUPID regardless of the year it is considered 'in vogue'. There is absolutely no point to drugs of any kind that aren't prescribed or OTC.

Not bashing you, Nickleodian,but the guy just needs to get help for his habit that clearly has no place in anyone's lifestyle. Dumbass (him).

`````````````````````````````````````````
"I NOW INFORM YOU THAT YOU ARE TOO FAR FROM REALITY."
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Iraqi Minister of Information

"Life ain't certain...ride your best horse first." Unknown

Emily Grayson
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:15 AM
It was never a myth that people in the horse world are big on cocaine...just go to a party and see for yourself!

*Emily*

Quinn
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:18 AM
Sea Monkey, I read that as oxytocin and thought why the heck would anyone take flipping oxytocin. I guess I've been out of the loop longer than I thought.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

"If you are going through hell, keep going." ~Churchill~

Medievalist
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickelodian:
Cocaine is sooo 1990's...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, and I thought that I was current on ALL the fashions! I thought that XTC was the cool thing all the cool kids did in high school....

Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye)

SGray
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quinn:
Sea Monkey, I read that as oxytocin and thought why the heck would anyone take flipping oxytocin. I guess I've been out of the loop longer than I thought.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you on foal watch Quinn? (I could only imagine a breeder thinking of oxytocin)

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

rileyt
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:22 AM
Just one piece of information on the "convicted sex offender issue"...

I don't know KK, I don't know anything about his situation... but I think there is an important point that needs to be made here... "convicted sex offender" websites vary GREATLY from state to state. I don't know Florida's rules... but in MANY states, they include some relatively benign people.

For example, prostitutes,
or the 19 year old boy who is convicted of statutory rape for having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend, or in some cases, the person who gets drunk and wild and indecently exposes himself.

I'm not defending anyone, just wanted to let you know that "convicted sex offender" can have a very broad meaning, and does not always mean "terrible person who abuses children".

Carry on...

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:

Funny, and I thought that I was current on ALL the fashions! I thought that XTC was the cool thing all the cool kids did in high school....

_http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So glad I'm not the only one behind on the times, according to Sea Monkey Oxycotin is fashionable these days. Too bad I don't even know what Oxycotin IS! Sea Monkey, thanks so much for sorting this out for me!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

Castlegate
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:25 AM
Ok, just a few thoughts...

1) You play....you pay!

2) So the guy has problems....big ones apparently...but if he just runs the website...so what? Do you think that every product you buy or every service you use comes from a company of squeaky clean employees/owners? GET A CLUE! Bad people are EVERYWHERE!!!!! If we had to stop using, buying, selling, promoting something because of horrible things people associated with it have done in their lifetime we would have NOTHING! The toothpaste has been out of the tube for a long time now...people DO drugs and really really sick people are arrested for sex crimes....there is just nothing anyone can do for them.....like said before UNTIL they want to do for themselves....until then.....don't move into areas with known sex offenders if THAT is what you want to do....and avoid people that do drugs...if it bothers you....but if you enjoy the website...use it, because you not supporting it isn't going to change this guy....

Baileybff
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:29 AM
You know...everyone can get offended if they want to. Just because he is "who he is" doesn't mean jack to me. If his name hadn't been mentioned and it was posted as "a well known horseman" I'm almost positive the people defending him would be singing a different tune.

I for one am a parent of 2 children. I have NO soft spot in my heart for any sex offender. I don't think they should be allowed any where near kids...even on the internet. TH is jam packed with them.
The cocaine deal is his own problem. I understand that's what he got arrested for and I'm sure he's sorry he GOT CAUGHT. I also understand that a drug addict is stuck and it's difficult for anyone to help them unless they truly want the help. I have someone VERY close to me that is hooked on prescription drugs.
I think it's sad that so many will defend him for these things. I by no means am a goodie-goodie. I just think he got what was coming to him...and see NOTHING wrong with that.
Just my 2 cents~

"Show with C.L.A.S.S."
http://classcircuit.0catch.com/Index.htm
"A horse is a horse of course of course"...This person obviously never met MY horse!
*Who Knew* aka Abby
***Proud member of the Colorful helmets clique***

Vandy
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:29 AM
FYI it's Oxycontin and it's a prescription painkiller. Recently been in the news because it's apparently more addictive and more often abused than the medical community prevoiusly believed.

More info about Oxycontin (http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/oxycontin/default.htm)

Kels
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:29 AM
It was a joke, clearly.

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

SGray
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rileyt:
Just one piece of information on the "convicted sex offender issue"...

I don't know KK, I don't know anything about his situation... but I think there is an important point that needs to be made here... "convicted sex offender" websites vary GREATLY from state to state. I don't know Florida's rules... but in MANY states, they include some relatively benign people.

...I'm not defending anyone, just wanted to let you know that "convicted sex offender" can have a very broad meaning, and does not always mean "terrible person who abuses children".....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

in this case http://www3.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_predators/OffenderFlyer.asp?keys=5647

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

Magnolia
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:36 AM
Do the registries contain info as to what the offender did? Guess they do!

And drug use is so common these days, and the drug war is losing, probably because 90% of drug users fit a mold outside of what we are taught a drug offender to be. And that is really sad that people that get to make a living off of horses need to take drugs......

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

Sea Monkey
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:39 AM
To those who didn't get that I was being facetious, please do a favor for yourself and take a valium. Ok maybe not, since valium is an addictive drug. Just chill.

To think that the only bad drugs out there are the illegal ones is just plain stupid. There are MANY legal drugs that are bad and that people abuse everyday. Even over the counter, 10 year olds getting high off of drinking a bottle of Robotussin, people abusing diet pills, which is glorified speed in my book. The law shouldn't be the red line between what is a "good drug" and a "bad drug."

Back to the intended subject of this thread -- it AMAZES me how some of you don't seem to care that a sex offender is running that website, catering to all ages including many, many kids. This disturbs me.

JinxyFish313
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:40 AM
Forget the fact that he runs a popular website...HELLO...he works at many of the country's biggest shows among HOW MANY KIDS? If I were a parent of a child showing at WEF or any other show he works at I'd be raising hell for the management of those shows. Convicted sex-offender caught w/drugs while working w/not just a microphone but a camera at an event where many young kids, often ones whose parents are not there all the time, are running everywhere...its a nightmare.

'Saanb ke rakh ni ey jovan butri
Hun mur ke na aauni bahaar' -punjabi mc

Court@HJ-OH
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:41 AM
As a college student I can say that I see every drug at parties these days. They are all there. But coke is definity still going strong.

VC
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:47 AM
oxy is a BAD drug...i have been placed on it for numerous problems lasting for about a month...3 times within the last year...while it really helped me through the pain...the after effects im still battleing...i ended up screwing up my head big time...depression, suicide and many other problems that now haunt me for taking a PERSCRIBED medication...i cannot stress how much you should stay away from this drug...your addicted in a few tries and then your just messed up...espically if you cut, snort or shoot the drug...watch out...

sorry just had to add that...

on the sex offender issue...i dont know him...but i wouldnt allow any of the children around the barn to be near the man...sure you can reform but you never know...and you did it once so how do we know your not gonna do it again...i get the pain and suffering thing...but doing that to a child???? no i dont care...

~Patty~

You know sometimes I feel like running around naked, but then I drink some Windex and it keeps me from streaking

Flash44
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:47 AM
Date of Birth - 1950

Qualifying Offense: Lewd,Lascivious Child U/16 (Principal)

Minor: Yes



Does not look like a case of "young love" with just one of the parties being a little too old and another being a little too young.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:49 AM
OK...I have my flame suit on and zipped up really tight and snug!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

He has been arrested...NOT FOUND GUILTY...but a whole bunch of you have him hanging from a really high tree!!!!

Without facts, without proof, without anything other than a newspaper report AND a call to verify he was arrested....you have him slaughtered, "drawn and quartered"!!!!

I hope and pray NONE of you guys are "judged" in the same manner in any aspect of your life...

Case in point RECENTLEY here in California....3 girls identified the same man as a predator who molested them, he was arrested and jailed for almost a year....court found him guilty and he was all but forgotten...

Until a few days ago when one of the moms found out the girls all agreed to identify the "fifth" guy....JUST because they were going to be late from school they lied to not get in trouble.

As far as the site....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you can't see why people would have a problem with a convicted sex offender running a website that many kids frequent <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people have a problem....THEY SHOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PARENTS THAT ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO "FREQUENT" THE SITE...

I have children (grown and gone) and I currently have a child of 15 who moved to California to live with me to persue her riding..

I DAMN WELL KNOW JUST EXACTLY WHAT WEBSITES SHE IS ON AND .....I am the one to monitor her web surfing.

Any parent who does not do that themselves should be ashamed....yes you can check what sites they are when you are not in the room or in the house or at home....DO IT!!!!

GEEZ......

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:


I DAMN WELL KNOW JUST _EXACTLY_ WHAT WEBSITES SHE IS ON AND .....I am the one to monitor her web surfing.

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just have to point out here that if a teenager doesn't want you to find out what they're up to, more than likely you will not catch them. Caretakers/Parents can scream and yell "I know what they're up to" all you want, but the truth is, you might not know. Sneaky teenagers can hide almost anything....consider that if you catch them doing 1 thing, then that is probably only 1 out of 1000 that you actually just managed to catch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

JinxyFish313
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:58 AM
I think its unreasonable to expect parents to do background checks on every person that contributes to every website his or her child visits...especially if the site is for horse show news or anything similar to that. I'm sure most parents consider this forum to be kid-friendly, yet I doubt most of them do background checks on all of us who post here, nor would they ever be able to. Again, my issue here is not his website, its that his exposure (no pun intended) to kids is not just through the website- he works around them daily, w/a camera no less. I fault the management of all the shows he works for for this.

'Saanb ke rakh ni ey jovan butri
Hun mur ke na aauni bahaar' -punjabi mc

Ash
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:58 AM
I agree knobsetter but in this case, how on earth would a parent know that Towerheads is being run by a sex offender? Especially a parent who isn't in the horseshow loop?

************************************************** **********
"I'm not going to have reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."
-- Hilary Clinton

SillyHorse
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:58 AM
I guess I take the attitude I do because it's not a website that caters exclusively to children - it's a horse show website.

I do agree that convicted sex offenders whose convictions involve minor children should not be allowed unsupervised access to children, and horse shows certainly have lots of children.

All the same, I feel bad for Kenny, and for anyone whose life has spun out in such a manner, whether it's their own fault or not.

SillyHorse
~ You can do anything if you want it bad enough. That is why we see so many people who can fly. ~

Kels
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:02 PM
100% agreed, Nickelodian.

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

Adelita
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:

He has been arrested...NOT FOUND GUILTY...but a whole bunch of you have him hanging from a really high tree!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no? If he's so innocent, WHY is he on the Florida website and sex offender registration? I wasn't aware they put average, innocent people's pics up like that....

&gt;^.,.^&lt;


www.imom.org (http://www.imom.org)
501(c)3 all volunteer organization that helps those who cannot pay for veterinary care for their pets.

rileyt
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:05 PM
Thanks SGray... I just wanted to make sure people were dealing with facts, and not speculation.

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:06 PM
You would think that SJI would be concerned.....I would like to think that they would be primarily concerned about the children, but who knows what motivates folks these days. (Uh, $$$$$ mainly)

Imagine the bad PR for them if someone in their employ was accused of being involved with some sort of impropriety with a minor.

It wouldn't be worth the gamble if it were me who ran that organization. Too much risk - not only of bad PR, but being dragged into a costly litigation in a civil suit.

All their good public relations with the industry could be tarnished in one fell swoop.

CTT
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:08 PM
I am not gettin in on the bandwagon over this situation. Any who know me know where I stand.

As for being a sneaky teenager There are many products out there parents can place on a computer without knowledge to see exactly what you have been up to. Wipeing out the cookies and history alone doesn't keep these programs from runing hidden and not doing their jobs.

If your a parent who worries I reccomend getting such programs. I will tell you though that I grew up wanting trust from my parents and if I betrayed that trust man the house was coming down. Do kids realy think that their parents have no clue? At one point they were just like them. My mother knows me like a book and I could not hide anything from her. Heck she even knew I was smoking cigs when I started. How did she know? I got edgey when I didn't have one and one day asked me what type I smoked after only 2 weeks. heck she knew before that but wanted to see if I would come foward and tell her. You would be suprised what line of respect and trust you get from your parents when you don't hide... Just had to add this.

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:09 PM
Geez! I'm glad at least on that roster of drugs I wasn't just stupid. My tender years were the 40's spent in Greenwich Village traveling with the Bohemian set who were essemtially the artists. Way out there, just meant poetry! Our most addictive drug of choice was coffee. Remember all the talk about coffee shops. It really was just coffee and we thought we were living dangerously and rebelling.

Talk about a generation gap!!! We did drink wine and beer but the only real addiction was java, which weakness I still have today and somehow I don't think I need rehab because of it.

No one has ever even offered me one of the funny cigarettes, I surely haven't seen the snorting of cocaine. I do go to parties with young folks and do you suppose that just because I'm a Grandmom they wouldn't let me know! Now I understand why my kids always said I didn't live in the real world.

This thread is quite an education for an old rebel. Why wouldn't you parents be concerned that a convicted pedophile was in the neighborhood? I don't care how little or innocent the crime, it's a case of bad judgment and that doesn't usually improve with age.

If someone was your "friend" and was addicted to chocolate you wouldn't want them to have a job in a store that sells chocolates. The temptation would be too much. If someone was addicted to alcohol you wouldn't want them as a bartender in a bar. Where they could eaily slip a few. That surely couldn't help your friend.

So if someone has a weakness for sweet young things why would you have him/her at a horse show which is a playground for sweet young things. Why would put them where they could invite said sweet young things to visit in the Tower? Why would you want them where they can impress children with their knowledge and vast experience and the fact that he knows important people who may need a catch rider and lend them champion horses? This like the old canard about the casting sofa and the way young girls were lured by dirty old men.

I say not for the children but for his own welfare those of you who wish to defend KK. A drug addict where you say there is so much drugs available doesn't seem a logical way to help his recovery. This is not going to help him. A fun web site is not an attractive way for someone with a predisposition for youngsters should be if he is going to gain control of his life.

You put a man/woman in a position where all their weaknesses are attractivly presented and then condemn them for partaking of the table fare set in front of him by everyone who says they care about them. Doesn't that conflict of purpose strike any of you defenders as strange?

Battle Scarred Veteran

[This message was edited by Snowbird on Feb. 18, 2004 at 03:20 PM.]

Heidi
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:09 PM
Out of curiosity, do you allow your 15 year old student to frequent the TH site, khobstetter?

Sadly, children are molested, lured, assaulted outside the context of the Internet, by their neighbour, teacher, priest, etc.; does your theory of parental responsibility also apply in these instances?

Within the horse show world, applying your theory of parental guidance, isn't it the parental, and by extension, trainer's, reponsibility to boycott those shows where a known and convicted sex felon serves as announcer, whose very job brings him into contact with, often unsupervised, minors?

[This message was edited by Heidi on Feb. 18, 2004 at 03:26 PM.]

ponyjumper4
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Oh no? If he's so innocent, WHY is he on the Florida website and sex offender registration? I wasn't aware they put average, innocent people's pics up like that....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He has not found guilty for the drugs. perhaps that's what she was referring to.

Adult Pony Rider Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Disgruntled College Student Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
QH Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
NC Clique :P

Castlegate
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:21 PM
There was a thing on our news last night about the growing problem of young children abusing Viagra....they called it Viagra junior...REALLY! Apparently people are pushing it to young boys and they are BUYING! Has some serious side effects too apparently....

Go figure....

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:24 PM
Heidi...I do allow her to frequent it. It is informative and educational for riders in our sport.

Adelita
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh no? If he's so innocent, WHY is he on the Florida website and sex offender registration? I wasn't aware they put average, innocent people's pics up like that....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am refering in my post to his arrest recently. I am responding to THIS THREAD!!!!! It is for drugs...not the other...BUT several here have him hung high, AGAIN, for the "other"...several here LOVE to bring up the old, even though it has NO RELATION to the new....several are taking advantage and bringing out all the old stuff to gossip about, toss around AGAIN and AGAIN...

And also Adelita...don't put words in my mouth and toss the vegtables around here.....I didn't say "innocent" and I didn't say "guilty"...

I said

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> He has been arrested...NOT FOUND GUILTY...but a whole bunch of you have him hanging from a really high tree!!!!

Without facts, without proof, without anything other than a newspaper report AND a call to verify he was arrested....you have him slaughtered, "drawn and quartered"!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My position is simple......leave him alone and let the courts deal with this....BUT seems people LOVE to stomp folks when they are down...and several here take wonderful pride and glee in doing so...

Last time I checked this was America...innocent until FOUND guilty in a court of law!!! NOT in the court of public opinion. For GAWD sake you guys, he is 1 day into this...NO COURT OF LAW HAS FOUND HIM GUILTY!!!!!!

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:30 PM
He had possession of the drugs, so was he delivering? Was he selling? was he bribing other with the drugs? You're right we don't know but we do know he had possession of the cocaine. I don't imagine there was a toilet bowl handy to flush them away.

OK! they were for medicinal use. He's a pschic that talks to the horses and some horses had let him know they needed some help to get through the day. It wasn't to alter their performance just to make them feel like getting the job done so their owners wouldn't send them to the sandman.

Battle Scarred Veteran

OneonOne
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:35 PM
No, Snowbird, he was going to sprinkle it on some money so that unsuspecting people would then groom and feed their horses and "accidentally" get it into their horses' systems at testable levels. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_____________________________________
Any coupon works! Beware of paper cuts!

haligator
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:41 PM
Hi All,
I wasn't going to wade into the fray, but feel I must. I will not judge anyone, as no one can truly know what is going on in someone else's life. This is an arrest - not a conviction. I am pleading with all of you to tread lightly in such a sensitive area.

I just want to say to Ken - hang in there, be strong, and try to get healthy and better. You have done a lot of good for the industry, now try to do something to help yourself. You deserve a better life for yourself and all around you. Sometimes you have to hit bottom before change can happen, and change CAN HAPPEN. You are in my thoughts. If you need someone to write to, I'm hear to listen and not judge.

Hallie McEvoy

Kels
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTT:
I am not gettin in on the bandwagon over this situation. Any who know me know where I stand.

As for being a sneaky teenager There are many products out there parents can place on a computer without knowledge to see exactly what you have been up to. Wipeing out the cookies and history alone doesn't keep these programs from runing hidden and not doing their jobs.

If your a parent who worries I reccomend getting such programs. I will tell you though that I grew up wanting trust from my parents and if I betrayed that trust man the house was coming down. Do kids realy think that their parents have no clue? At one point they were just like them. My mother knows me like a book and I could not hide anything from her. Heck she even knew I was smoking cigs when I started. How did she know? I got edgey when I didn't have one and one day asked me what type I smoked after only 2 weeks. heck she knew before that but wanted to see if I would come foward and tell her. You would be suprised what line of respect and trust you get from your parents when you don't hide... Just had to add this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, there is a fine line between showing your parents trust and your parents showing you trust.

As a teenager I (personally, not saying my friends, etc.) never hid from my parents but there were things that were personal and had my Mom or Dad gotten in the middle, I would've raised hell.

Now, anything I didn't want my parents to know about (my boyfriends, friends getting in trouble http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif etc.), they didn't. Yes, there are things you can put on a computer, but THERE ARE WAYS TO GET AROUND THEM.

My parents never did any of that, because as smart and computer savvy as my Dad is, I am every bit as intelligent when it comes to this. Many parents aren't 1/2 as smart when it comes to computers/technology as my Dad so I am absolutely sure that they couldn't pull off something liek that without the teenager knowing.

Teens are deceiving, and yes, our parents have been there, but we're talking online there, and there WAS no internet when our parents were teens. PERIOD.

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

Tripleoxer
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:44 PM
Wonder Towerheads will have a full exclusive interview? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:44 PM
OMGIH! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

He runs a WEBSITE...and as far as I've seen, he is not attempting to entice children for elicit purposes...only report on horse shows.

PERHAPS he has a drug problem...PERHAPS he just got caught with some coke and is not an addict.

Yes, I too thought coke was "out" but replaced with crack...outta the loop here, too.

No, anyone with an addiction cannot be "helped" unless they WANT TO BE.

And no, I do not even know him.

JMHO......

Smiles
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:44 PM
Here we go again!!!

Now folks illegal substances and prescription medicines are just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to addiction. You can become addicted to just about anything cough medicine, arisole sprays, gambling, to name a few.

Clearly this man has issues, but what good does it do to argue about them with one another?

Just another day!!!

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:48 PM
Smiles, clearly there are those ont his BB who are intent on trashing the man...their reasons, I don't know...b'cuz he's a sex offender? I don't understand the bashing, either.....

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:50 PM
Oh! OneonOne we couldn't suggest that, it would sound like a conspiracy and I've had my knuckles cracked for that too many times. No the only answer is medicinal therapy.

My goodness! this sounds like the Third Reich only then the children spied on the parents. Surely, intelligent caring parents can do better than invading the privacy of the children whether it's their diary as in my day or the computer as in yours. Shoot even the spam can beat the system don't you think a clever pedophile could too, and you would have lost the trust of the children.

Battle Scarred Veteran

pbrownw
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:50 PM
There are programs called keyloggers that record all activity on a computer. They run completely hidden and either store the info in hidden files or send it out in email form. They are completely invisible and we use them here at college to get people's passwords so we can mess with their computers. There are even one's you can install on their computer just by sending them an email. Believe me, you have no idea they're there.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 12:59 PM
Snowbird..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He had possession of the drugs, so was he delivering? Was he selling? was he bribing other with the drugs? You're right we don't know but we do know he had possession of the cocaine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We do NOT "KNOW" he had possession...that is what he was arrested for and charged with BUT..go back to my post about the children here in California with the recent incident..

He (the guy here) was arrested, picked out of a picture line up by 3 kids, identified in court by 3 kids, found guilty, sent to jail....AND THEN THE TRUTH CAME OUT!!!

I am not saying this is the same...BUT I am saying that being arreested and charged with something is FAR FAR FAR away from being guilty...AND FAR FAR FAR away from US "knowing" he had "possession".

AGAIN..this is America..innocent until found guilty in a court of law...AND SOMETIMES even that is flawed!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I have a friend who was arrested, toted off to jail, harrassed by the police and so on because they "found" the zip lock bag with the "powder" in it in his car......COCAINE they screamed!!!!

2 weeks, and $8,000 attorney fees later the tests came back and the Coffeemate residu in the bag tested negative for Cocaine!!! OOPS...SORRY they said but it is now on his record that he was arrested for "drugs".

This is America..he is...AND SO ARE YOU...INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY...even then it is not always true!!!

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

scrubs
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:09 PM
Sure - hang in there Ken, be strong, get healthy..... Sure and in the meantime, since you "seem" like such a nice, upstanding guy, work at a horse show with young kids in breeches, who are away from home, trying to "fit in" with the big crowd. Oh yeah, we'll throw in the fact that the kids just love ya' becasue you run one of their cool websites....... GEEZE wake up people. This guy is a PREDATOR, cocaine or not - fine - don't condem if you don't know the guy - He is a sex offender that needs help but why should I put my son or daughter at risk just to see if he can do OK in that type of situation - boot him the he** out, let him get help and rehab someplace else. The guy is a creep. Period. I would like to know if he is at WEF in some sort of "official" capacity. If so, Gene is getting a letter from me.

As an aside - The Oxycontin / Oxytocin mix up made me crack up - Can you see everyone at the shows on Oxytocin - everyone in labor pains and lactating!!!

Sparky22
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:09 PM
That's interesting that it took so long Knob, as it seems to have become normal procedure to test it on sight. Put it in a test tube with the dye.. dye turns blue for cocaine.

P.S. holy caps lock batman.

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

Release First
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:10 PM
I think there is NOTHING (horse abuse, child abuse, drug abuse, murder, etc.) the horse world will not forgive or forget if a person is good enough looking, rich enough, powerful enough or a great enough rider.

I find it depressing http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

When you are on your horse you can see forever. - Victor Hugo Vidal
Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are. - King Soloman (970-928B.C.)

buryinghill1
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:11 PM
MB how come you get away with a non horse-related thread?
Class pet?
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Never Inhaled http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

MAD
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adelita:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:

He has been arrested...NOT FOUND GUILTY...but a whole bunch of you have him hanging from a really high tree!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no? If he's so innocent, WHY is he on the Florida website and sex offender registration? I wasn't aware they put average, innocent people's pics up like that....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What was he arrested for last night? NOT his original crime, I believe...again, it is not nice to kick a man when he is down. I agree with khobstetter, you all have him convicted AGAIN of his original crime! And that is NOT FAIR! Isn't this America, innocent before proven guilty? Or does this BB follow other rules?

Scarlet 1
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:13 PM
If I remember correctly wasn't the original "situation" blamed on alcohol or drugs. If my memory is correct, than the current arrest for cocaine possession has more relevancy than it might normally.

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:15 PM
I do not know the facts of the sex abuse case...and flame suit on...perhaps it was not a young child but a promiscious teen who was consentual? Yes, I know...stautory rape, etc...but now some of y'all have taken this to the extreme that he is a "predator" at horse shows...just there to oogle little kids in jods? Don't you think this bashing is getting a bit out of hand...
MAD, apparently this BB has it's own set of rules...ick!

MAD
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>posted by buryinhill:
Never Inhaled <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really?

SGray
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seahorsefarms:
...but now some of y'all have taken this to the extreme that he is a "predator" at horse shows...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's the terminology used by the State of Florida "If further information is needed, please contact the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit".....

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

SoEasy
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:20 PM
Well, some of the people posting DO remember the original case, and NO it was not a consensual teen.

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:21 PM
Just the facts Mam!

Kathy you're right but he is a convicted pedophile published and was on parole. Considering what I've read on this BB it would not be unusual to find cocaine in anyone's pocket. That does not make it right or change the facts that he is in violation of his parole and had a suspected amount of a product that looked liked cocaine, smelled like cocaine and tasted like cocaine.

It seems to me that someone who is on parole and had sugar in his pocket might have been more persuasive that it was confectioners sugar and the police in this day and age of counter suits for false arrest would be careful. We are not talking about evidence from three little girls who were late coming home from school and didn't realize the implication of their false charge.

I don't think we will want to ignore every complaint by every little girl who claims she was molested because in this country there were three that lied. Nor do I want toassume that the entire legal system is wrong because of some errors.

I think that if nothing else his friends should have warned KK that he was in a very vulnerable situation and that he would be wiser with a less conspiculous position and where there were no children or drugs until his parole was completed to prove his remorse and cure from whatever was in his past.

The problem Kathy with your argument is he is convicted and published so he is assumed guilty rather than innocent because he's on parole. He may be guilty only of bad judgment or bad company but those are choices that he made and he had other choices.

I don't think it is fair to dump on the parents who have no involvement and acuse them of neglect that is also guilty until proved innocent. You may be a super slooth with kids in your care but try as I might I couldn't swear to my total supervision at all times.

Battle Scarred Veteran

fleur
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:21 PM
i hope all of you who are up in arms over the coke charge are voting dem this november.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:22 PM
Being a sex offender has nothing to do with the fact that he has a website that jrs happen to go to. Did it ever occur to anyone that there are more kids interested in reading about the results then adults? Kids spend a lot more time online.

shmon
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
Isn't this America, innocent before proven guilty? Or does this BB follow other rules?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Welcome to John Ashcroft's America http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleur:
i hope all of you who are up in arms over the coke charge are voting dem this november.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bahahahahahahahahaha emma I loff you http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

------------------------------
"These are my principles. If you do not like them, I have others." --Groucho Marx

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:25 PM
Sandstone just drove the point home, whether intentionally or not.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:25 PM
Ok! I'll bite why would we vote democratic if we are opposed to the use of cocaine? I have read that in the Clinton Whitehouse it was very popular. I think it is safe to say that both parties are equally opposed to the use of drugs and would like it to go away.

Battle Scarred Veteran

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:25 PM
Well if it wasn't a consentual teen, then that is a horse of a different color in THAT ISSUE...
Thanks for enlightening me, SoEasy. As I said, I have no knowledge of that case or him...I just think he's getting annahilated (sp?)here...

the eleven
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:26 PM
Not directly related to K.K.'s arrest (I personally could care less about this arrest, though I think the original crime commited is HEINOUS), but relevant to many opinions previously stated by other posters...

I feel obligated to post my opinion on the matter of cocaine use among young people, since I myself am a twenty-year-old who has actively chosen to abstain from cocaine use. First of all, I have observed how people react, and how cocaine can change people over time. I personally believe drug use is a personal choice, and it is also quite possible for individuals to use cocaine purely recreationally without falling down the slippery slope into addiction. This is due to the fact that the addiction to cocaine is a mental one, as opposed to physical (so it is a matter of personality/will power). However, sometimes these recreational users end up as hollowed grey skeleton looking things with bloodshot eyes and bloody noses stealing money so they can go freebase every day. This is not the norm but cocaine is very powerful... it can really take hold of people with a certain personality. I have never used cocaine and I HOPE that I will maintain this integrity, but I associate with many who have/do. From what I understand, cocaine makes you feel courageous, powerful and very sexy. It is also highly glamourized. I know that I should never blow coke based on my own reactions to perscribed medications (ritalin, adderall). I know I would like it, and I have an extremely addictive personality.

Cocaine use among my peers is not in any way unique to horse shows. I see plenty of it with "non horsey" people as well. The fact that kids at shows are generally wealthier than average kids certainly helps (if you can't afford it you can't do it), but there is just as much of that here at Rhodes. Plenty of spoiled children with their parents' money to spend. Coke is highly glamourized and makes you skinny, which increases the appeal to girls who think they are too fat (which is basically everyone I know). Some of you all need to take off those rose colored glasses. These are kids from nice families, brought up in a loving way. These are kids making good grades, holding leadership positions. Some of you all are SO BLIND, I bet your own kids are blowing coke right now and you have no idea. My point is that coke use does not fall only into a single demographic, and is much more prevelant than some of you seem to think it is. Bringing a child up with "correct moral values" etc is not enough, and often is basically just BS. Kids emulate their peers. Period. Don't try to tell your kids what to do, they won't listen. You need another approach. Raise your children to be intelligent and thoughtful. They need to think for themselves, not conform to what society expects of them. I can guarantee you most of these kids start because they are looking for social acceptance in one way or another. OPEN YOUR EYES!

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

Remi and me
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:27 PM
OMGiH! What is wrong with you people? So most of you think it's ok that he got arrested for possession (not convicted) and has a conviction of sex with a minor (or something of that nature) which entitles him to be on the Fla. state sex offender list - and you are defending him because he is a horse show announcer and runs a popular horsey website? Let me introduce you to some other guys that were on my caseload at the Federal probation office! Yes, I feel terrible for the downward turn of this man's life but good god everyone makes choices and guess what? He didn't make good ones! Why don't you ask him to move into your neighborhood!
You know, I don't think the cops just go around arresting people for possession if they don't have it on them. Good lord.
Ok - flame suit on.

Vermont - where winter riders are real riders.

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seahorsefarms:
I just think he's getting annahilated (sp?)here...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm Anna hilated every day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:29 PM
so he got arrested for posession...now he's trying to lure kids to coke via his website?
I think the kids are interested in the results...nowhere do I see "coke" ads....

Nickelodian - GOOD ONE http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MAD
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>posted by MBStark:
MAD, I hope I see you when I am down in Wellington and we Will NOT discuss this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No WEF for me this year; though stop in and see Mom. I'm in Charlotte, NC and the closest I'll probably come to a horse is maybe driving to Raleigh to see Sea Urchin show again... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

shmon
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Ok! I'll bite why would we vote democratic if we are opposed to the use of cocaine? I have read that in the Clinton Whitehouse it was very popular. I think it is safe to say that both parties are equally opposed to the use of drugs and would like it to go away.

_Battle Scarred Veteran_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Snowbird, we were referring to George W's cocaine conviction in 1972.

------------------------------
"These are my principles. If you do not like them, I have others." --Groucho Marx

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleur:
i hope all of you who are up in arms over the coke charge are voting dem this november.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, fleur!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Of course, sex with an intern probably doesn't rank high on their lists either... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Position of authority and all that.

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

CoolMeadows
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:36 PM
Good lord. Where's the violently puking emoticon? I hate the horse world. Every now and then I get nostalgic and deeply miss my days of being on the circuit. And then I remember the countless similar incidents and the things I witnessed being done to horses and the ripoffs and illegal activities I was privvy to (don't jump on me! I found out after the things had been done!) and I don't miss it anymore. My opinion, the guy's a predator, but don't for a second think that he's a unique individual in the horse world.

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:41 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CoolMeadows:
Good lord. Where's the violently puking emoticon?

LMAO!!!!!!

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ohnowwhat:
Sandstone just drove the point home, whether intentionally or not.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That was my exact thought.

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Bensmom
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:41 PM
First, I'm a yahooing eventer, so I have absolutely no opinion on KK whatsoever, but I can offer a few minor points of clarification:

First is that he is not on parole. In Florida, parole only exists anymore for the people that were in the system at the time that they would have still been eligible for parole. If you are on parole, they had a hearing and decided you could get out early.

KK's status is actually a convicted sex offender on probation, which is how he ended up on the registration website. According to the website, he is on administrative probation, which may mean non-reporting -- i.e. he doesn't have to check in once a week/month with a probation officer, but then again it states he is on "active" status, so I'm not sure what "administrative" probation is.

It also means that he either served his sentence, and was placed on probation for a time following release, or that he was placed on probation in lieu of incarcerative time.

An interesting thing is that many times sex offender probation includes a prohibition from having contact with unsupervised minors -- so he may have been in violation of the terms of his probation by having daily contact with kids on the show grounds.

The Florida Dept of Corrections website shows that his supervisory period is for 15 years probation, but the Clerk of Court for Palm Beach County (where the offense occurred) doesn't have felony records online yet, so I can't easily pull up the terms of his conviction.

He has, at this point, been on probation for 10 years. He was charged with the prior offense on March 2, 1994 and convicted on December 12, 1994.

A short-ish time frame from arrest to conviction like this indicates that he probably entered a plea (when things go to trial, they rarely do so within nine months -- continuances and all that) and a long probationary period many times indicates that he may have been put on probation rather than sent to prison. If he had served time in prison, I would expect his probationary portion of his sentence to be shorter than 15 years.

Now, this is all speculation because the details of the case are not easily available online and I may be totally off base with the guesses about the plea and sentence.

Anyhow, them's the facts, as well as I can make out. I cannot imagine that it would be considered a good idea for someone convicted of L&L on a child under 16 to spend much time or work in an environment such as the horse show world, and I do know that many times the terms of sex offender probation would prohibit it.

Just a little more info=

Libby (I strive to keep offenders in jail for a living in order to pay the horsies bills)

*Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique*

Nickelodian
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolMeadows:
I hate the horse world. Every now and then I get nostalgic and deeply miss my days of being on the circuit. And then I remember the countless similar incidents and the things I witnessed being done to horses and the ripoffs and illegal activities I was privvy to (don't jump on me! I found out after the things had been done!) and I don't miss it anymore. My opinion, the guy's a predator, but don't for a second think that he's a unique individual in the horse world.

http://www.coolmeadows.net<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor is he a unique individual in the rest of the world either. I wouldn't pass on the chance to show on "the circuit" because of a few bad eggs, if its what you love to do then do it. There are bad people everywhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

the eleven
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog87:
your mom, you need to get your facts straight. Cocaine is NOT just mentally addictive, it IS physically addictive. The following is from the National Institute on Drug Abuse, a government agency<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if its from a government agency, it MUST be true. there would be NO bias there, JUST he facts. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif GIVE ME A BREAK. GET A CLUE. This was exactly my point. You need to observe what is REALLY going on, not just believe whatever you are told.

by the way, it's JohNNy Depp. Sorry that has been bugging me FOREVER.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

KJoy
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Remi and me:
OMGiH! What is wrong with you people? So most of you think it's ok that he got arrested for possession (not convicted) and has a conviction of sex with a minor (or something of that nature) which entitles him to be on the Fla. state sex offender list - and you are defending him because he is a horse show announcer and runs a popular horsey website? Let me introduce you to some other guys that were on my caseload at the Federal probation office! Yes, I feel terrible for the downward turn of this man's life but good god everyone makes choices and guess what? He didn't make good ones!


AMEN to that! PLEASE - this has turned into a popularity contest of sorts - defend the popular guy no matter what he does, just because he is prominent in the horsey world. Get a grip - there actually is a world out there besides horseshows... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

shade
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:44 PM
If I am reading it correctly he was picked up for a parole violation and they found coke on him....duh people...the parole violation is from his earlier CONVICTION. This man was found GUILTY paroled and has now VIOLATED that parole agreement so guess what IT DOES go back to the original crime..and they don't just pick up people and scream coke possesion..not in this day and age...hear lawsuit...unlawful arrest...

Albion
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:44 PM
Physical dependence on cocaine has not been established. It's more pronounced in users of crack - psychological dependence tends to show up more in users of cocaine. Physical withdrawal is short (relatively speaking) - psychological is most definitely not.

One of the biggest problems with cocaine (and any street drug, really) is that the purchaser has NO idea what it's been cut with, even if you are buying from a "reputable" dealer (and I use that term loosely). Could be baking powder, could be rat poison.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:44 PM
...and the ripoffs and illegal activities occur off the circuit as well....probably more so...just not in the spotlight!

Bumpkin
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:46 PM
I was really, really looking forward to buying an AHJF tape from Towerheads http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif
How is that for selfish.

If anyone knows that someone is filming this, please let me know. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KJoy:
PLEASE - this has turned into a popularity contest of sorts - defend the popular guy no matter what he does, just because he is prominent in the horsey world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet another reason the circuit made me ill.....

Hopeful Hunter
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:50 PM
I don't know this person or the website and don't feel a need to comment on him...
BUT...
I DO need to comment on this statement from one post:
"PERHAPS he has a drug problem...PERHAPS he just got caught with some coke and is not an addict"

Explain to me how one can "get caught with some coke" and NOT be considered to have or be part of a drug problem, please.

That is beyond absurd. This is one of those TRUE black and white things (not the man himself, but the statement above) -- if you are "caught with coke" you are guilty of a drug offense. Period.

What - the person was just "holding it for a friend?" Please! People who don't do drugs don't hold, carry or transport them.

I have never so much as tried an illegal substance -- yes, even pot. I've been around people smoking it and before I realized what it was (I was young and naive) I realized that nasty smell made me nauseous. I have an odd body chemistry and tend to react in unusual ways to drugs, so that's not a shock.

But the reason I didn't smoke pot or try drugs had NOTHING to do with becoming ill from the smell -- it had to do with seeing and understanding what the drugs can do to a person. A family member tried drugs, pot and hash, I think, in the 1970s. I saw the hell it put her family through, and saw the pain it inflicted on so many people. Nothing good came of her flirtation with drugs, and I vowed to remember that.

I have. As a modern adult I have friends who have used and may still use pot -- I don't know about any other drugs as they tend not to talk to me about it. I have a simple rule -- do not bring drugs into my presence, don't discuss their use with me and don't have them in a place where I'll be. It's not negotiable.

If I'm at a place where I see drugs being done or am offered drugs, I state very clearly "no, I have a serious problem with drug use" and then I leave. Do I offend some people? I don't care -- they're using drugs, and if they're offended well I'm offended by their drug use. And if I come to know that someone has a drug abuse problem, I'll refer them to counseling and offer to go with them for help, but until they ARE willing to get the help, I will minimize contact with the person, no matter how close we may be. Again, not negotiable, I don't hang out with drug addicts knowingly.

Now, this doesn't mean I advocate locking up drug users and throwing away the key, or otherwise labelling them as despicable. I don't. I think for many drug users - especially those who come from challenging circumstances or poverty - that the drug use is a symptom of a bigger problem - untreated mental illness, poverty or another issue. Until we start providing REAL treatment, and REAL options for a drug free life (including actual engaging work that brings in a living wage to replace drug money) we won't have any chance of reclaiming these lives or helping anyone - users, dealers or victims.

For those who think that "carrying" drugs isn't so bad, or that drug A is fine, remember and think about the crime, the death, the devastation these drugs bring to our country. Is that something you really want to condone? I don't. Until we change our drug policy and our approach to dealing with addictions, drugs will remain one of the biggest dangers to our society. And I for one don't want to knowingly support people who contribute to that danger.

Baileybff
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:51 PM
Hmmmmmm....I think all these "guys" should be sent to play at a "CLOSED" Neverland with Jacko!

I'm no longer commenting on the thread itself...Sorry~ had to say it!

"Show with C.L.A.S.S."
http://classcircuit.0catch.com/Index.htm
"A horse is a horse of course of course"...This person obviously never met MY horse!
*Who Knew* aka Abby
***Proud member of the Colorful helmets clique***

CoolMeadows
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:51 PM
You're right Nickelodian, it exists in all aspects of life. I guess I've just seen a higher concentration of grossness at the shows. I try to just stay to myself when I go now, but even that doesn't always work. I got to watch a stopper get shocked at the last rated show I went to. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

haligator
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:52 PM
Scrubs,
My post obviously bothered you enough for you to quote it in your post. I'm sorry I took a compassionate stance - I'm not condoning anything Ken may or may not have done, but I do feel that this incident could be a turning point for the better in his recovery. And, I do believe recovery is possible.

If people had been a tad more compassionate and supportive regarding someone who battled alcohol and drugs, my sister might still be alive. So, I guess I take the issue of drugs and alcohol-related issues a bit differently than some people.

I'm not condoning anything Ken may or may not have done, but I'm sitting here crying because of the the overwhelming hostility in some of these posts. It just brings back too many sad memories. Flame me all you want, but I'd rather be cautiously compassionate than sit as a judge on someone else's life.

In memory of my sister, Hilde - a good horsewoman who battled bigger demons than I can imagine.

Hallie McEvoy

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hopeful Hunter:
I DO need to comment on this statement from one post:
"PERHAPS he has a drug problem...PERHAPS he just got caught with some coke and is not an addict"

Explain to me how one can "get caught with some coke" and NOT be considered to have or be part of a drug problem, please.

Read for comprehension, please...I never said "part of a drug problem"...I simply said one cannot assume a person is addicted just because they are in posession.
Are you an alcoholic if you have more than one drink? Methinks not! At least, not NECESSARILY...speaking from experience, one CAN BE, but doesn't HAVE to be.
I am not saying drugs are good...I'm just saying that PERHAPS people are jumping to CONCLUSIONS!
And for those who have no personal experience with addiction, you really do not have a clue. Sure, read all the reports you want, but don't pretend you're the pot calling the kettle black.
That's my spiel for today...and I DO KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE...
Later.

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by your mom:
You need to observe what is REALLY going on, not just believe whatever you are told.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I think that was devildog's point. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif By just hanging out with your friends who do cocaine and observing their behavior, you can't possibly see the chemical changes that are taking place under their skin. I'm sure some people swear they just do it for the feeling and can stop any time they want. Unfortunately, free will disappears pretty quickly in the face of habit-forming drugs. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW, there's really no such thing as mentally but not physically addictive. The body responds to stimulus and commands it receives from the brain. When the brain feels good, the body feels good, so they create compatible addictions.

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

cidbad
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:00 PM
So did he show up at WEF to announce today? I would think he was still sitting in a cell. I would bet that Gene Mische did know about his past history and as usual in the horse business chose to look the other way. And in KK latest column he speaks about pain medication and I quote "No, I refuse to have a problem with over medication on pain pills. I am using Tylenol whenever possible and the RX stuff only as a last resort. I just don’t want to go through what I’ve seen Rush Limbaugh go through. Plus, I can’t afford to “shop for doctors” like he can." Very ironic that he was in possession of cocaine. Since he can't afford to shop for doctors what exactly was he shopping for? I would bet you will see him announcing for the rest of the circuit if he is not in jail.

levremont
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:01 PM
I am sorry for you and for your sister...however I have a lot less (to none) compassion for a man who IS a CONVICTED sexual predator!!!I personally don't give a rat's a$$ about his recovery...I do however care about the children he is a predator to!
I too find it very very sad that some people defent creatures such as him no matter what, of course it goes along with "he has always been nice to me, so who cares if he is a monter to others!"

visit us at www.levremont.com (http://www.levremont.com)

CuriousGeorge
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:01 PM
Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Hopeful Hunter
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:04 PM
Seahorse, it sounds to me as though you are making some sort of distinction between "addiction" and maybe "recreational" drug use?

See, I don't CARE if he's "actually" addicted, if he was "just" transporting the drugs or if he "only uses coke at parties" or whatever. IF A PERSON HAS COCAINE IN THEIR POSSESSION THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW.

It really is that easy for me. The idea of "recreational" drug use makes as much sense to me personally as "recreational" assault and battery, or "recreational" breaking and entering. I'm known for being a rather flaming social liberal, but on the issue of drugs, I'm not.

I've seen families torn by "casual" drug use. In high school I saw a classmate die from "recreational" drugs. This isn't casual to me -- it's serious as death and I consider the statement I quoted to be cavalier and demonstrative of the kind of attitude toward drugs that terrifies me.

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:05 PM
And as for the government plot, your mom, are you sure you're not being... paranoid? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


(Or is paranoia as a side effect a myth too?)

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:08 PM
I must say that even more than KK I find it very depressing that so many are so aware and that they have done nothing to change it.

It was the same on the thread about the horses and I wonder whatever happened to our social structure that was so bad that things which are abuse of your own body, or other peoples bodies and of the innocent horses can be so generally accepted.

This fatalistic inevitable acceptance of anything which alters you or your horse is a serious invasion. We get hysterical about an invasion of our privacy and yet can accept all this other stuff because everyone does it and it's all over and there's no way to get away from it.

The casual comment that a poster saw a horse being electric shocked because it was a quitter horrifies me because of the complacency with which it was reported here.

We are the caretakers of this world, and my generation is almost totally gone and you have to accept responsibility to protect the world for the generations that will follow. How will you do that if you are not enraged.

I would have risked charges of assult if I had seen a horse being given an electric shock where I was present. If it took hitting the bums in the face to get the police there to report an act of animal cruelty, I would have taken that chance to protect that horse which is virtually helpless.

ASPCA = American Society for the Protection of Children and Animals.

It's not a fringe group, it is not a new group it was established before my childhood because of the abuse of children and animals in a society that believed both were property.

Battle Scarred Veteran

Albion
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BTW, there's really no such thing as mentally but not physically addictive <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true (sort of - I think in cases like E, the drug has a MUCH more powerful psychological hold, whereas the phsyical addiction - if any - is minor. You may be addicted to the heightened sense of pleasure/open ness/etc, but that's a psychological craving, not a physical one) - but - there haven't been any conclusive studies done on the physical addiction to cocaine. I've never done cocaine, so I wouldn't know. I think the physical 'crash' from crack is much worse than the physical 'crash' from cocaine. I always thought it was pretty well accepted that the psychological hold of cocaine is much worse than the physical hold?

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

Snowbird
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:17 PM
This is off the published record of the Palm Beach Police blotter with a caption that says the Citizens Right to Know:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name: KRAUS, KENNETH L Race: White DOB: 03/22/1950

Address:
12705 W HAMPTON CR
WELLINGTON, FL 00000 Facility:
Booking Number: 2004308346

OBTS Number: 5002069873 Booking



Date: 02/17/2004 Time: 21:39

Arresting Agency: DOC PROBATION Officer: VREELAND

Charge: 948.06 (NN) VOCC: STREET VIOLATION VOP RE: LEWD ASSAULT ** WARRANT TO FOLLOW** <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Battle Scarred Veteran

rottenrobbie
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:21 PM
WOW..really sad as a statement to the reality of the horse business / industry! A "sex ofender" among an industry that caters to beautiful wealthy little girls, left to run the show grounds ...every parent thinking it a safe haven! Safe haven because they are paying thousands of dollars a week for these kids to show.

I must say if I had a daughter showing I would be scared to death...how many others are out there? How many are out there that have gotten away with it? We all know many trainers hit on the young girls.

IT IS VERY SAD FOR THE INDUSTRY!

As far as the drug charges...my guess is that if there was a sting operation you would see a number of people go down for COKE (trainers, judges, grooms, riders)...pressure from the business, long hours and the need to stay thin.

I'm not saying right or wrong...just that it is ashame that our young riders are exposed to situations that perhaps make them have to grow up faster than a child should have to!

ponyjumper4
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:22 PM
This topic needs to be moved or closed.

Adult Pony Rider Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Disgruntled College Student Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
QH Clique http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
NC Clique :P

CoolMeadows
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:24 PM
Yes, yes Snowbird, be the change that you want to see right?? Well thanks for the advice, but I've spent more than my fair share of time testifying in court about things and I am DONE with it. My number 1 concern now is the safety of my own horses, which I've also learned can be a difficult thing to maintain in the business. Did I mention that I leased a lovely mare to a BNT that came back with a broken leg (which I was never told about during the lease), medicated to the eyeballs (in direct violation of the written lease) and thoroughly ruined physically and mentally?

Did I feel horrible for the horse getting shocked, of course I did. And I was repulsed, any complacency you thought you read into isn't there. But I have come up against the system enough times to realize that A) since it wasn't done DURING the show, USAeq wouldn't have done a thing about it and B) local animal control couldn't care less. I worry about the animals in my care and feel sorry for the ones that endure cruelties, and try to do what I can to help them, but I am only one person. I take in rescues when I have room and can afford it, donate to the local horse rescue monthly, and I report cruelty whenever I can. That's all I can do so don't try to make me out to be heartless.

www.coolmeadows.net (http://www.coolmeadows.net)

Scarlet 1
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:24 PM
I don't think the transgression was with a female.

SGray
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sillyponies:
This topic needs to be moved or closed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose that Off Course would be appropriate, though it is probably here because it is more likely that h/j folk would know the name

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

JAGold
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by your mom:
You need to observe what is REALLY going on, not just believe whatever you are told.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you think that your observations of people you have personally seen are more accurate than the conclusions of trained professionals? Have you done randomized controlled experiments? Have you sampled a significant population? How do you account for the physiological (note: PHYSIOlogical, not PSYCHological) changes during withdrawl?

Get real. The medical professionals whose work is the basis of the information Devildog posted also observed real people. They just did so in a scientific, unbiased enviornment, and drew statistically valid conclusions from their observations. I don't care what you believe personally, but I do care if you post bad, potentially harmful information.

You can justify your own decisions to however you want. That doesn't change the facts. --Jess

scrubs
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:29 PM
Haligator - I am sorry for your loss, and I do understand it because it happened to my brother-in-law who left a wife and kids without a dad not to mention a hole in our entire family. He was loved as much as anyone. KK needs help -no doubt - but HE is making poor choices that limit the amount of help anyone can give - and the law is catching up with those choices. He was more than likely picked up on probation from his sex offense. He IS a predator. He knows where to find kids both on and off the internet. If you think that is not a conscious choice of a predator, you're blind. He IS making bad choices that put some kids at risk when they are at horse shows. How about someone compassionately tell him to stay away from contact with young children???? How about someone telling him that he cannot have a position of "importance" where children "look up" to him. Maybe then he wouldn't be in the predicament he's in now. I am sure he is not the only one - nor is it unique to the horse world. But, he screwd up and when it comes to the safety of my kids, you don't get a second chance.

Saddith
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:30 PM
Libby, thanks for taking time to point out the probation vs parole issue. Here in California, just about everyone is on probation. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You can be on probation for being drunk in public, or driving on a suspended drivers license. Probation is what non serious offenders get. I would be more concerned if he was on parole, because that would mean he had done actual jail time, and had gotten out early. Also, our megan's law labels guys who picked up a prostitute as a "sex offender". To me, that's stretching it - they are just horny guys looking for quick release with a willing participant, vs a guy who snatches a woman and forcibably rapes her (that in my opinion is a sex offender).

Also, I would like to ask if anyone knows specifically what Ken was arrested and put on probation for in 1994?

Because I hate to point out that it is quite possible for a 15 or 16 year old to have a fling with an older man. That could have been all it was, you know. Now, I'm not saying its right or that I condone it - I'm just saying that at 15, some girls and boys know what they are doing with their bodies and what kind of power it can command. It may have been a consenual encounter that got found out and reported. It has happened many times, just recently at a local high school with a teacher and a student. The student was willing having sex with her teacher, and her friends found out and reported it. Still makes it a crime, the parents were upset and he got arrested. That scenario could have been what happened to Ken. That's why I am asking if anyone knows any details surrounding that arrest.

You really can't judge someone until you know the facts, and we don't them really. It could have been a minor type arrest or a major one that got dropped down to one due to a bargain made at arraignment. As well as the cocaine possession charge - well if it were on his person it would be hard to argue that one. But if it were in his home, then there is a slight possibility that it could have been someone else's and he didn't know about it. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it a bit less grievous. Again, my opinion.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:36 PM
Sparky22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> That's interesting that it took so long Knob, as it seems to have become normal procedure to test it on sight. Put it in a test tube with the dye.. dye turns blue for cocaine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HOWEVER...if it DOESN'T come up blue, on the spot, they can still arrest you, send you to jail, send the "smaple" off to the lab AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT.....sort of a harrassment deal.

Or do you think all cops are "clean and kind".

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

LimoWrek
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albion:
[QUOTE]BTW, there's really no such thing as mentally but not physically addictive <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not true. Your body does not go through withdrawl when you stop taking cocaine as it does with opiates/opioids (heroin, morphine, hydrocodone, etc). You get physically sick when you stop taking large ammounts of opiates, alcohol, and tranquilizers. With things like E, Cocaine, Crack, amphetamines, you do not go through physical withdrawl. You have no 'sickness,' although there is certainly mental addiction going on.

----
Limo Wrek.

Black Market Radio
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:39 PM
Saddith, please check your PT's...

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
The Walrus was Paul...

LimoWrek
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAGold:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by your mom:
You need to observe what is REALLY going on, not just believe whatever you are told.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you think that your observations of people you have personally seen are more accurate than the conclusions of trained professionals? Have you done randomized controlled experiments? Have you sampled a significant population? How do you account for the physiological (note: PHYSIOlogical, not PSYCHological) changes during withdrawl?

Get real. The medical professionals whose work is the basis of the information Devildog posted also observed real people. They just did so in a scientific, unbiased enviornment, and drew statistically valid conclusions from their observations. I don't care what you believe personally, but I do care if you post bad, potentially harmful information.

You can justify your own decisions to however you want. That doesn't change the facts. --Jess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look ANYWHERE else. I did not read what devildog posted because if it says Cocaine is psychically addictive it is in direct conflict with thousands of other medical postings about cocaine. Addiction is a BIG deal, mental or not. If you just got sick after you stopped taking something, it would be easier to quit. Mental addiction is the 'bad' kind.

----
Limo Wrek.

SGray
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddith:
....Because I hate to point out that it is quite possible for a 15 or 16 year old to have a fling with an older man. That could have been all it was, you know. Now, I'm not saying its right or that I condone it - I'm just saying that at 15, some girls and boys know what they are doing with their bodies and what kind of power it can command. It may have been a consenual encounter that got found out and reported. ......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

in 1994 he would have been 44 years old

"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.

Albion
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:44 PM
Limo Wrek, I was responding to that quote.

'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:47 PM
FWIW.... relevant to Snowbird's post from PB County Police Blotter:


4. "Lewd assault" means the uninvited touching, or uninvited attempt to touch, coupled with an apparent present ability to complete the act, another person's genitals, pubic area, or buttocks, or the female breast.
B. Lewd Conduct Prohibited Ð No person shall intentionally perform any lewd act:
1. in a public place, or
2. in any place under such circumstances as to make it difficult for an unwilling member of the public to avoid exposure.
C. Lewd Assault Prohibited Ð No person shall intentionally commit a lewd assault.

Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger....I pulled this up from a site that deals with various statutes, etc.

JAGold
Feb. 18, 2004, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

Look ANYWHERE else. I did not read what devildog posted because if it says Cocaine is psychically addictive it is in direct conflict with thousands of other medical postings about cocaine. Addiction is a BIG deal, mental or not. If you just got sick after you stopped taking something, it would be easier to quit. Mental addiction is the 'bad' kind.

----
Limo Wrek.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you actually read what I said, or just quote it? I didn't characterize the nature of cocaine addiction; I adressed the fallacy of relying on one's own observations instead of empherical research. If you aren't convinced that research draws more accurate conclusions than observations of lay people, see Gilovich (1991) "How we know what isn't so" The Fallibility of human reason in everyday life," or Hastie and Dawes (2001) "Rational choice in an uncertain world."

But I agree with both you and your mom that addiction is dangerous, and cocaine is dangerous. Perhaps I should have directed my ire at the wider range of posts that seem to dismiss cocaine use, but I really can't stand it when people dismiss evidence in favor of what they "know" in their heart of hearts. --Jess

Sparky22
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
Sparky22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> That's interesting that it took so long Knob, as it seems to have become normal procedure to test it on sight. Put it in a test tube with the dye.. dye turns blue for cocaine.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


HOWEVER...if it DOESN'T come up blue, on the spot, they can still arrest you, send you to jail, send the "smaple" off to the lab AND YOU HAVE TO WAIT.....sort of a harrassment deal.

Or do you think all cops are "clean and kind".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said anything about cops being honest or not. That was not what I was pursuing in my post.

It's ok.. no need to capitalize. I wear glasses so that I can read the screen (hence my ability to read everyone else's posts). I'll let you know if I lose them or break 'em, that way you can hit the 'caps lock' button so I don't miss a single word in your very brief response.

--------------------------
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
-- John Keats

Saddith
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>in 1994 he would have been 44 years old
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wanted to make sure - you are referring to Ken, right? He would have been 44? And he or she (the victim in his first arrest) could have been 15 or 16 at that time... old enough to know and agree to have sex. I have some friends that are 20 and date 45 year olds... A 15 year old having sex with even a 50 year old is certainly within the realm of possibility. Not something I want to think about, but quite certainly capable of happening now and then.

I was just trying to point out that without knowing the facts, you shouldn't judge or label someone. And we don't know all the facts - on either of his arrests.

That's all I was trying to do - playing the devils advocate. I will return to my corner now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Box-of-Rox
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:12 PM
i don't know or frankly care, but just to put my two cents in on the nature of the sex offense: he was not brought up on statutory (sic) rape charges...this was different. I think that why you are all describing (the consensual stuff), and what happens when a 19yo is charged by the disapproving 17yo's mother that finds out here daughter is going out with the boy that works at the gas station, is different.

BoR:
"I always feel like an idiot. But I am an idiot, so it kinda works out."--Billy Madison

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."--Churchill

Kels
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddith:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>in 1994 he would have been 44 years old
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wanted to make sure - you are referring to Ken, right? He would have been 44? And he or she (the victim in his first arrest) could have been 15 or 16 at that time... old enough to know and agree to have sex. I have some friends that are 20 and date 45 year olds... A 15 year old having sex with even a 50 year old is certainly within the realm of possibility. Not something I want to think about, but quite certainly capable of happening now and then.

I was just trying to point out that without knowing the facts, you shouldn't judge or label someone. And we don't know all the facts - on either of his arrests.

That's all I was trying to do - playing the devils advocate. I will return to my corner now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has been said that this child was under 16...Somewhere in this thread, I believe. And I believe it also says that on the Sex Offended link posted on the thread.

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

Calico
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:20 PM
Will someone please post the original 1994 conviction? It was posted here a couple years ago, and I remember that it was not consensual, and it was with a boy. I remember the circumstances as being pretty shady, but don't want to post what I remember since I don't have the documentation.

2Dogs
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:29 PM
Whoa - couldn't make it through all the posts. But what I did read seems simple enough: the man is suspected of violating his probation for some kind of sexual offense and he was found to possess cocaine (reportedly). He will go through the court process and be determined guilty or innocent, if I remember my elementry course in the judicial system of the United States. He, unlike many many before him, has touched our lives since he has been a fixture in the horse community for a long time.
First, I think it is very sad. Second, I think that the standard of conduct for anyone that we think has an more than ordinary effect on the young, whether as a teacher or role model, should be higher and the reaction from the public (us?) more outraged. I don't really know what effect this man did or does have on the young in the riding world - but crikey, there have been and are and probably will be plenty of bad examples of poor and even felonious behaviour in the horse world ( I go back to the 60's and remember it then). It was a shame then and it is now.

AS for all the comments about the "in" drugs -
ha, am I old fashioned. Give me a galss of wine any day over all the rest!

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"
Albert Einstein

Waterwatch
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:30 PM
Cidbad - Thanks for finding that column and quote by KK about prescription drugs and not getting addicted to them. I guess he'll just do coke instead!! What a hypocrite this guy is. The true sign of an addict is believing his own lies.

Sillyponies - Why should this thread be closed? It's public knowledge and not a rumor. Yeah, let's just sweep more garbage under the rug so no one sees it.

I feel sorry for the guy for his addiction, but NOT for his prior conviction. I don't buy the excuse that 15/16 year olds can lure adults into sex. An ADULT should know better, that's what makes them an adult.

I wish I had know about his conviction before I subscribed last year. I will NOT be renewing this year.

Barb

"May the happiest days of your past be the saddest days of your future."

Saddith
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:32 PM
2dogs, you summed it up exactly how I should have.

Thanks for doing what I could not, so eloquently. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am done now.

Sea Monkey
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:34 PM
And just to think, the only reason we are aware of this is because he got caught. Imagine what other skeletons are in the sexual offender's closet.

LimoWrek
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAGold:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

Look ANYWHERE else. I did not read what devildog posted because if it says Cocaine is psychically addictive it is in direct conflict with thousands of other medical postings about cocaine. Addiction is a BIG deal, mental or not. If you just got sick after you stopped taking something, it would be easier to quit. Mental addiction is the 'bad' kind.

----
Limo Wrek.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you actually read what I said, or just quote it? I didn't characterize the nature of cocaine addiction; I adressed the fallacy of relying on one's own observations instead of empherical research. If you aren't convinced that research draws more accurate conclusions than observations of lay people, see Gilovich (1991) "How we know what isn't so" The Fallibility of human reason in everyday life," or Hastie and Dawes (2001) "Rational choice in an uncertain world."

But I agree with both you and your mom that addiction is dangerous, and cocaine is dangerous. Perhaps I should have directed my ire at the wider range of posts that seem to dismiss cocaine use, but I really can't stand it when people dismiss evidence in favor of what they "know" in their heart of hearts. --Jess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry, I didn't mean to quote you specifically.. I just quoted that to let people know what I was talking about.

----
Limo Wrek.

LimoWrek
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddith:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>in 1994 he would have been 44 years old
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wanted to make sure - you are referring to Ken, right? He would have been 44? And he or she (the victim in his first arrest) could have been 15 or 16 at that time... old enough to know and agree to have sex. I have some friends that are 20 and date 45 year olds... A 15 year old having sex with even a 50 year old is certainly within the realm of possibility. Not something I want to think about, but quite certainly capable of happening now and then.

I was just trying to point out that without knowing the facts, you shouldn't judge or label someone. And we don't know all the facts - on either of his arrests.

That's all I was trying to do - playing the devils advocate. I will return to my corner now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


He tried to proposition a 14 year old boy for sex.

----
Limo Wrek.

the eleven
Feb. 18, 2004, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAGold:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:

Look ANYWHERE else. I did not read what devildog posted because if it says Cocaine is psychically addictive it is in direct conflict with thousands of other medical postings about cocaine. Addiction is a BIG deal, mental or not. If you just got sick after you stopped taking something, it would be easier to quit. Mental addiction is the 'bad' kind.

----
Limo Wrek.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you actually read what I said, or just quote it? I didn't characterize the nature of cocaine addiction; I adressed the fallacy of relying on one's own observations instead of empherical research. If you aren't convinced that research draws more accurate conclusions than observations of lay people, see Gilovich (1991) "How we know what isn't so" The Fallibility of human reason in everyday life," or Hastie and Dawes (2001) "Rational choice in an uncertain world."

But I agree with both you and your mom that addiction is dangerous, and cocaine is dangerous. Perhaps I should have directed my ire at the wider range of posts that seem to dismiss cocaine use, but I really can't stand it when people dismiss evidence in favor of what they "know" in their heart of hearts. --Jess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your arguement here is totally correct, and I have never stated otherwise. The observations I have made are about social expectations and why kids begin to use coke. I never claimed to have scientific knowledge based on simple observation. The assertion that I made (coke is not physically addictive) was based on what I have been told my entire life about coke... that there are no physical side effects during a withdrawl period, and that the addiction to coke is all in your mind. This is what I was taught in health class & learned in Anatomy & Physiology (and yes, I know what it means).

Also, I don't think I am being off base about the government lying to us. I mean, where are those WMDs??? Oh yeah... let's give the inspectors more time!!!

As for the paranoia thing... clever.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:04 PM
THIS COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED TO A BETTER MAN

What we have read here today is a matter of public record, not speculation.

I mentioned to someone last week in a private PT, that Ken would reap his, in the form of Karma. I just did not realize that it would be so soon.

Personally, I have been the victim of this mans behavior (sexually, only in the verbal sense), but the other side, the HUGE side, was a horrible thing that he did to me, that if persued, I would have a GREAT court case.

If you have read his columns, you would see many references that would turn, at least every mother, of any child, away from his web site and not allow their child to go within 50 feet of this him.

One instance of Ken's behavior is that he was fired from the California horse shows 1 1/2 years ago, that he had announced at for years. This was due to words that he printed. He was much, much, MUCH more than disrespecting a huge name and a huge support in our business with horrible accusations (sp?). I am surprized that the people that he was speaking of did not file suit against him.

He speaks on his (John Redfern's) site, about gambling, drinking, women, adorable children & teenagers and much more. I am curious as to why he is accepted. How anyone can either emotionally or financially support Kenneth Kraus, knowing what he stands for, is beyond me.

I say a prayer, a BIG prayer, that he can get his life together and no longer be a burden to society.

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Waterwatch
Working Hunter
posted Feb. 18, 2004 06:30 PM
Cidbad - Thanks for finding that column and quote by KK about prescription drugs and not getting addicted to them. I guess he'll just do coke instead!! What a hypocrite this guy is. The true sign of an addict is believing his own lies.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree with this statement. When Ken was suffering with either back or knee problems, he thanked "Vicodin" for getting him through his horse show announcing days. Said that he couldn't have done it without Vicodin.

Another example of public record.

tyedyecommando
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Also, I don't think I am being off base about the government lying to us. I mean, where are those WMDs??? Oh yeah... let's give the inspectors more time!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And just to think, the only reason we are aware of this is because he got caught. Imagine what other skeletons are in the sexual offender's closet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Its scary to think about what is in the past of anyone, not just a sex offender. I doubt very few people get caught in their first criminal offense.

I am very appalled that USAwhatever does nothing to people convicted of any criminal offense (I guess their punishment is conviction)or someone who has obviously broken a law on show grounds and been witnessed by show officials. I and many other exibitors and show officials witnessed a TRAINER overdose on the show grounds years back and USAwhatever has no rules for any sort of human drug rules (only equine). This is a person responsible for the training of horse and rider and there is no record of this incident for future potential client's/buyers to see this person's reputation. The trainer was also somehow able to sneak past criminal proceedings with a rehab promise. All there is to know is what people who saw the incident know.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"No, that's wrong, Cartman. But don't worry, there are no stupid answers, just stupid people."
- Mr. Garrison, South Park

Jaysee
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:34 PM
Hmmm, a 50-something year old single guy on parole (for child related sexual offenses) caught with coke... what could possibly be wrong with that??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

~*~*~*~*~*~

lauriep
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:40 PM
Christ, here we go again.

1. Ken has had an addiction problem for YEARS that he ha been quite open about both in his column and in talking with him. He was a manager of rock bands and a groupie back in the 70's. He is, and always will be, a recovering addict/alcoholic. He has slipped, and I am sorry for him. No one who doesn't deal with these demons can know how hard it is for them to go through each day and not use. I think a little compassion and a few prayers for his future health are more appropriate than this hysteria.

2. It has been 10 YEARSsinc his sex offense. Lewd and lascivious is not rape or sexual battery. And there hasn't been so much as a hint that he has even thought about it. Hardly what I would call predatory. And he has been in the announcing business at horse shows because that is the profession he has been in before and since, not because it is good territory for his problem. Nor is the website. And there has been absolutely no trouble there, either. He is one of 3 people that I know who made a very bad judgement call, which ended up being a very black mark on his record. But until/unless it ever happens again, it is just that. The others that I know never re-offended either. And these cases also illustrate that the word "sex offender" can be a VERY broad category, including simple poor judgement which never shows itself again, to the dangerous predators we all would like to see with bamboo shoots going into every possible orrifice. But that just isn't the case here.

MB, I know that I am the other friend who must agree to disagree with you. But I have seen too much over the last 20 years to judge someone on a first offense, and on as little information as is available here.

If he ever does reoffend, I'll be the first one to join you in calling for his head (or other body parts). But until then, he has done what he was supposed to do under the terms of his probation (the addiction is a whole other issue) and for that I give him credit.

And for those who think I am always defending my friends because of who they are, you couldn't be more wrong. I have just had a very, shall we say "interesting" life in the last 20+ years, and it has made me a more tolerant, forgiving, compassionate person who rarely sees things as black and white.

Laurie

Waterwatch
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:42 PM
Party Rose - What is it you disagree with? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif KK stated in one of his most recent columns that he didn't want to take anything stronger than Tylenol for his knee pain. I think Cocaine is a bit stronger. Obviously he is addicted to something......just not Vicodin http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I believe he's a hypocrite for spouting off about not getting himself addicted to a prescription drug but a "recreational" one is OK in his bookhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

That's what I mean about KK believing his own lies.

Barb

"May the happiest days of your past be the saddest days of your future."

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:54 PM
Juniors come to the COTH and Towerheads. TH has lots of jr results but thats because the jr results are almost always more impressive and interesting. (Wouldn't you rather hear about Adison Philips winning all those things at 13 then about the 50yo ammie that got a champion in the adults??)

I still moderate some of the forums at Towerheads and read the articles and even when i was a junior I never felt targeted. So what if jrs go to his website? It has nothing to do with his history and everything to do with his reporting.

I can't count the number of honor role students I know that are high right now, and this is a wednsday evening.

horse_poor
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
OK...I have my flame suit on and zipped up really tight and snug!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

He has been arrested...NOT FOUND GUILTY...but a whole bunch of you have him hanging from a really high tree!!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
wow they out pics with names and alleged crimes on registered sex offender websites????? sounds pretty GUILTY to me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

in our state there has been a many month long hunt to find the remains of a girl linked to a released sexual offender----

and yet we are to send our children to shows with people like him there?????? OMGiH!!!! dont the show commiittes have an obligation to check the background of workers?!?!? what other sport do little kids, girls especially, flock to like bees to honey? to add insult to injury, lets add a little coke into the mix to make it even more interesting. see how #%^#^% our kids can get now http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

and before anyone says "awwwwwwww hes an addict he needs help...." well i am too and have been clean for almost 12 years---not saying i am better than him, but i am not a convicted sex offender hanging out at horse shows......

gawd this makes me MAD

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

www.oasisequestrian.com (http://www.oasisequestrian.com)

Beezer
Feb. 18, 2004, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
BUT..go back to my post about the children here in California with the recent incident..

He (the guy here) was arrested, picked out of a picture line up by 3 kids, identified in court by 3 kids, found guilty, sent to jail....AND THEN THE TRUTH CAME OUT!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correction here. The man, a drifter, was NOT found guilty. He was on trial when the girls' lies came out. He was NEVER identified by all three girls; one identified from a drive-by lineup while one did not, and two picked his picture out of a photo lineup and one said it was not him. Only one girl had testified against him in court when the case unraveled and she did not ID him in court.

Now, what all this has to do with KK, I dunno. But, since we are on that subject, I had some more cop-savvy folks look at his (latest) booking sheet to help me decipher what all the abbreviations mean. In doing so, they asked me why I cared. I explained who KK is and how he runs this well-known Web site and how he has a lot of people who believe in him.

To a one, they all looked at me in amazement and asked, "Why would you want anyone like that associated with your sport??"

That's a damned fine question.

***** Currently assigned to the mouth-gaping, lip-flapping, head-twisting, wood-chewing, boot-shredding phase of baby greenie ownership! *****

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:07 PM
Beezer- your story is why i HATE COPS. all the cops i have ever met have been very quick to judge me. They don't think about how i make good grades, have a job, ride horses, and am a productive member of society. They just see the bad in me

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:09 PM
Still, a good question continues to be, "Why would Stadium Jumping want anyone like that ........etc?" Or some of the other shows around the country?

What would their sponsors think? Everyone saw how fast whatever business it was (McDonalds?) dumped Kobe Bryant? Companies don't need that kind of baggage. They don't need any kind of baggage in this day and time.

DMK
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:10 PM
Sandstone, I don't think Beezer talked to cops. She talked to people who are in the business of knowing cops - weaknesses and strengths...

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

wtywmn4
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:10 PM
Really really good question! And the answer is? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Sandstone, I don't think Beezer talked to cops. She talked to people who are in the business of knowing cops - weaknesses and strengths...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh... but either way I think cops tend to over react and assume someone is worse then they really are compared to the 'normal world' outside of cop 'im better then you' world
and I consider my self in the business of knowing cops http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Beezer
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:12 PM
Sandstone, these are NOT cops. I never said they were. I merely said that they are more cop-savvy than I am and could help me decipher the abbreviations on KK's latest booking sheet.

Big, big difference.

***** Currently assigned to the mouth-gaping, lip-flapping, head-twisting, wood-chewing, boot-shredding phase of baby greenie ownership! *****

Heidi
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>To a one, they all looked at me in amazement and asked, "Why would you want anyone like that associated with your sport??" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, let's hazard some guesses...

-'cause he's really funny, is really knowledgeable about horse sports and everyone knows him;

-he lets me write for his site;

-it's not like he hurt ME personally, you know, he made an error in judgement with some kid; it's not like none of us have never made a mistake;

If none of the above are satisfactory, let's hypothesize that for many in the sport, moral absolutes are a moving target. Why is it that we in horse sports forgive that which would result in unemployment and social ostracism elsewhere?

As for compassion, OMG, I prefer to direct that to the victim of KK's crime.

stop4
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:18 PM
oh ok, but either way i hate cops http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I really don't think ken is predatory and I don't think that having him at horse shows is a problem. If he does coke that has nothing to do with his other history, which I dont think is quite as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:21 PM
Beezer (not all this post is for you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)..the article I have in front of me states that the 3 girls agreed to pick the fifth guy in the photos when they were in trouble and then informed there would be a "photo line up". They agreed to study the face and try to remember exactly what he looked like for further identifying.

BOTTOM line...the guy sat in jail for many months, all the while he did nothing.

Other obversation...being from a journalist family....media reports can vary from one to the other even tho all the reporters covered the same story.

I STILL SAY..let the court system have him and figure it out.

As far as those "offended" by the "type of people we have allowed in our sport"...we are NO different than just about any other sport/industry. They all have these type messes..the difference in this case is we know the person and have a podium to talk about and hang him from.

I would challenge ALL of you guys to go to your local police station and ask to scroll their computer for drug/sex offenders in YOUR neighborhood.

YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Here at the fair last year they provided computers for the public to check their neighborhoods....people were blown away...guess what??? They can, and sometimes DO, live right next door or right down the block AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT.

I live in the Newport Beach, California area (wealthy and swank..the area, not me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and there were 37 living in the 2 zip codes my house and/or MY business is in.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Don't get so pious that you think they are not close to YOU..they are and you don't even know it. Please don't pick on our industry until you live in a perfect world where no one has access to you and yours...

Again.."judge not least you be judged".

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

barnie
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:30 PM
When did we all get so daggone touchy/feeley that we can't "judge" someone who did something against the law for which he was caught and punished(such as it was) and say that they were wrong/bad for doing it?!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Maybe if anyone could talk to the victim, they might get a different perspective on the crime.....ya think?!

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:31 PM
Does anyone know anything about his bail or if he went to work today?

OnyxThePony
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:32 PM
I just have to post again on this. I'm not trying to rehash the whole KK problem. There were scores of posts when the conviction first came out..yet...

WHAT can be done?
1) Many adults (let alone children) do not have the necessary wherwithal to understand and individually fight against, or protect themselves against child molestation, and invlovement of drugs in our sport. These people..US..WE..need protecting. Maybe not 'you' as an individual. Then again, maybe yes, you yourself or your chid, b/c you just have NO idea of the ramifications or dangerousness of the situation.
Ancedote: I looked the mother straight in the eye and cautioned her, "I would not recommned you take your teen daughter to that barn. There is a known sex offender there". Mom replies, "oh don't worry. It won't happen to us".
Second mom agrees it is a nice barn, and her dtr is quite happy there. "Well, yes, there was that time I allowed my 14 yr old dtr to ""DATE"" the man, and he did rape her. But, well, other than that..it's a great place, and well, the rapest, is generally a decent person, and upstanding member or our equine community, after all. So why don't you and your dtr come join us at the barn."
I had an identitical second scenario, except the issue also included boys and cocaine use.

HOW can we not justify "protecting" this type of person? Yes people this stupid really do exist on our planet, in our community. Even without covert predation, we obviously need to protect our kids.

2) Regarding the popularity (or otherwise) of the suspension issue, there is quite obvioulsy a WAY....a METHOD.. a PROTOCOL.. of handling trainers guilty of "rule breaking" and deemed dangerous to horses. Why not the same for OUR CHILDREN??, for pete's sake, this is not rule breaking, it is ILLEGAL activity, from wherever you stand!!
Get them the Hell Out! Clean it up and come back in. We don't need it in our sport.


My 2cents.

and for what it's worth, I too was a pretty wild child, sure I've been there, but I"m not sure why that gives me a right to ignore facts to favor sympathy... KK's 'previous' lifestyle is not unique, neither is it an excuse. Yes, he (and many others) needs help. THEN he can come play with us.

sittin on the dock of the bay...

Policy of Truth
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:38 PM
"Oh no? If he's so innocent, WHY is he on the Florida website and sex offender registration? I wasn't aware they put average, innocent people's pics up like that...."

He is on the website because his crime was identified as serious enough that it needed to be placed there. His crime was committed BEFORE Megan's Law was instated. Sex Offenders whose crime was deemed serious enough were "grandfathered" into the law, which is what allows the websites with pictures to be run and viewed.

I have had several conversations with his parole officer from a few years ago when the sex offense was brought to light on this BB. I can say, as someone who has worked sex offender victims, it was serious. I can also tell you that the story he told me vs the one his parole officer told me were two VERY different stories, which tells me he (at the time we had this discussion a couple of years ago) had not truly dealt with his crime. HOWEVER, I do not know where he is in dealing with this issue at this time. It is unfair to speculate what is going on in that particular area of his life. You can all get the same information I received by calling his parole officer.

I DO NOT think KK is a bad person, but rather he did a bad THING. Being forgiven doesn't mean becomming "cured" or no longer having to suffer the consequences.

I disagree with him being around children, and I do believe it his popularity that has allowed our sport to turn a blind eye, which is the most unloving thing we as a sport could have done to him. We have essentially become his enabler, IMHO.

Court@HJ-OH
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:38 PM
Sandstone,

Grow up. I too went through a "i hate cops" phase. When I was gettting into trouble or worried about getting into trouble.

Think about, what would we do with out them. It is one of the most important jobs in our society. These people put their lives on the line for YOU!!! and YOUR safety every single day for less than you spend on horse shows in year. The risk their lives every day for all of us.

Believe me they are not out to get you and don't always assume the worst of you. If you are not the one doing something wrong I find it hard to believe that they are just out being mean to you.

Policy of Truth
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:40 PM
"I really don't think ken is predatory and I don't think that having him at horse shows is a problem"

Sandstone, before you make such sweeping generalizations, I suggest you speak to his parole officer, or better yet, his victim. That is an INSULT to the pain he caused that kid!

Molly99
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Party Rose:
Does anyone know anything about his bail or if he went to work today?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My understanding is that he is still in jail. Not at work today, however I don't know if he would be returning or not. I understand that the bail hearing is tomorrow.

OnyxThePony
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:43 PM
**shaking head**

SANDSTONE is seriously proving my point.....

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

sittin on the dock of the bay...

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:43 PM
Thank you

barnie
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pacificsolo:

I DO NOT think KK is a bad person, but rather he did a bad THING. Being forgiven doesn't mean becomming "cured" or no longer having to suffer the consequences.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, ya see, I DO think committing any sex offense concerning children makes him a BAD PERSON. The end...period!

silver
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone
and I consider my self in the business of knowing cops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which doens't exactly make you the best character reference.

Personally, I would be pretty damn angry if my child was at a horseshow that employed a registered sex offender. In my mind that is not suitable employment, particularly in light of drug abuse.

I am actually in favour of more lenient drug sentencing/ treatment programs etc. for simple possession but in this case, it is clearly part of a larger problem. IfI were an outsider I would think twhice about involving my child in horse sports. Of course the horseshow world has never actually cared what outsiders think...

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:50 PM
I just got an "official" email and it said this...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> On Monday evening, Ken Kraus was taken into custody following a search of his residence by police. It is our understanding that he will be arraigned tomorrow for possession of a controlled substance in violation of the terms of his probation. The circumstances surrounding this police incident are still not known. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I write for Towerheads (as you probably know) and personally like the site and I do think it is really good for our industry.

While I DO NOT endorce any of the accusations/activities of this situation, I am holding my opinion till all the facts are out. I am a parent, a foster parent, hold a Pastorate license and have about a zillion kids in my training business...PLEASE don't judge my position on this matter.

I have met Ken 1 time for about 3 minutes so we are not "close personal friends" as was stated in an extremely attackive and threatening email I got a couple of hours ago. I support Redferns web site and the work BOTH men do there.

You can like me or not like me, I personally don't give a rats ASS, BUT please refrain from sending threatening, abusive, hateful emails to me regarding this or anything else of any nature.

I have deleted that email, reported it to AOL and blocked my email from any other email from that address...HOWEVER I WILL TURN THE NEXT ONE OF THAT NATURE OVER TO THE POLICE AND THE MODERATORS HERE.

I am shocked anyone could be so angered by the posts here to resort to that...give it a break girls, grow up!!!

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Dogs:
Whoa - couldn't make it through all the posts. But what I did read seems simple enough: the man is suspected of violating his probation for some kind of sexual offense and he was found to possess cocaine (reportedly).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a point that probably needs some clarification, as it is becoming an assumption that is being carried along in the current of this thread (not to pick on you, 2Dogs, your post just summarized it, is all):

My understanding from the first few pages was that when the little girl was kidnapped in FL, law enforcement followed some kind of protocol and paid unannounced visits to ALL the registered sex offenders in the area, and they just happened to catch KK, not with his pants down, but with cocaine.

I didn't think he was being independently investigated or suspected of a repeat sexual offense. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Can someone clarify this for us? Thanks. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

[This message was edited by bigbay on Feb. 18, 2004 at 09:18 PM.]

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:51 PM
Yes, thank you Onxy....

That one is truly a child who should neither be seen nor heard, as the old saying goes!

nappingonthejob
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well, ya see, I DO think committing any sex offense concerning children makes him a BAD PERSON. The end...period! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it must be nice to live in black & white.

signatures are lame.

satin
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
I have met Ken 1 time for about 3 minutes so we are not "close personal friends" as was stated in an extremely attackive and threatening email I got a couple of hours ago. I support Redferns web site and the work BOTH men do there.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, clearly there is no point in arguing with someone who uses words like "attackive." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

barnie
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nappingonthejob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well, ya see, I DO think committing any sex offense concerning children makes him a BAD PERSON. The end...period! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it must be nice to live in black & white.

signatures are lame.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as this topic is concerned, you bet your bippy it is black and white.

Policy of Truth
Feb. 18, 2004, 05:59 PM
"Well, ya see, I DO think committing any sex offense concerning children makes him a BAD PERSON. The end...period!"

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif wow. I guess we see this very differently. But don't get me wrong...I detest crimes like this, as I was a victim. I really hate what he did...I just don't hate HIM, nor think of him as a bad person.

barnie
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:02 PM
Just curious....if sex abuse of children doesn't make you a "BAD" person...is there ANYTHING that you think would?

Beezer
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:08 PM
Khobstetter, I am not going to debate you over the facts of a case that has been widely reported or over whose journalistic roots run deeper. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I was merely pointing out that the facts as you related them were incorrect.

I also fail to see how looking up the sexual predators in my ZIP code in any way relates to indulging a convicted sexual predator who has admitted past drug problems in our sport. But, eh, that's probably just me. While I'm a firm believer that rehabilitation is possible, like others have said, first the person has to want to be rehabilitated.

***** Currently assigned to the mouth-gaping, lip-flapping, head-twisting, wood-chewing, boot-shredding phase of baby greenie ownership! *****

Stephie
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:13 PM
I'm not sure how this thread changed from ken getting arrested for possesion of an illegal drug, after violating his parole, to crude behavior and slander. I think that you shouldnt judge someone just because you "heard something on the news" or "read a blurb in the paper" lets see what happens when the judicial system tkaes this into their own hand, since they are the professionals, and after that we can say what we want. Just because you know what the circumstances, doesnt mean you know the person, what they were thinking, or the reason they did it. Plus, attacking people for what they say is so childish, if you have a problem, handle it in an adult fashion(although after eading this post, I'm not sure weather that is something good or bad) Hope none of you guys are presented in a situation like this, so we can all sit at home making threads about what kind of person you are.

~*~Stephanie~*~
!!Holsteiner Clique!!

ComingAttraction
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:17 PM
What I find interesting is that most all of the people posting would be horrified if he abused/neglected horses. Most child abusers have been abused themselves as children. MANY abusers start by abusing animals...It is a fact.

ohnowwhat
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:21 PM
This is the official info from the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office Blotter.... hopefully this will be explained further in the days to come.


Name: KRAUS, KENNETH L
Race: White DOB: 03/22/1950

Address:
12705 W HAMPTON CR
WELLINGTON, FL 00000 Facility:
Booking Number: 2004308346

OBTS Number: 5002069873
Booking Date: 02/17/2004 Time: 21:39

Arresting Agency: DOC PROBATION Officer: VREELAND

Charge: 948.06 (NN) VOCC: STREET VIOLATION

VOP RE: LEWD ASSAULT ** WARRANT TO FOLLOW**

horse_poor
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heidi:

-he lets me write for his site;

-it's not like he hurt ME personally, you know, he made an error in judgement with some kid; it's not like none of us have never made a mistake;

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you didnt just say that did you? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif how about you say that to the victims and parents of such crimes?

so help the son of a bitch that makes "an error in judgement" such as this with my kid! there wouldnt be a safe place on earth to hide from my fury!

i used to counsel kids who were victims of such "errors in judgement" and it makes me freakin sick to think that someone who is on a sex offender registration sight is actively involved with our kids!!!!!!!!! yes it happenes in other sports/activities, and it is just as sickening.

if this was a "mistake" then i guess i accidentally murder someone, i can tell their survivors---whoooops it was a mistake!

missing strides in a line is an "error in judgement"--sexual contact with a child (yes CHILD) under the age of 16 is more than an "error in judgement"--it is a CRIME!!!!!!!!!!

your comments make me want to so rush to read everything on the TH site......NOT http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

www.oasisequestrian.com (http://www.oasisequestrian.com)

fleur
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:37 PM
horse_poor, i am pretty sure heidi was being totally sarcastic, as in "do these sound like good reasons? no!" but i guess i could be wrong and she really could feel that way.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

barnie
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:39 PM
[/QUOTE]

missing strides in a line is an "error in judgement"--sexual contact with a child (yes CHILD) under the age of 16 is more than an "error in judgement"--it is a CRIME!!!!!!!!!!

your comments make me want to so rush to read everything on the TH site......NOT http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

http://www.oasisequestrian.com[/QUOTE]

We are of a like mind there!

Beezer
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:39 PM
Uh, Molly? Heidi was not speaking for herself; she was distilling what others' arguments in defense of KK are.

I think it's safe to say that Heidi can personally find no excuse for KK's previous actions.

***** Currently assigned to the mouth-gaping, lip-flapping, head-twisting, wood-chewing, boot-shredding phase of baby greenie ownership! *****

SoEasy
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:39 PM
AH ... Horse_poor? you might want to re-read what Heidi said ... she was repeating the excuses, she most certainly does not believe a one of them!!!

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ohnowwhat:
This is the official info from the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office Blotter.... hopefully this will be explained further in the days to come.


Name: KRAUS, KENNETH L
Race: White DOB: 03/22/1950

Address:
12705 W HAMPTON CR
WELLINGTON, FL 00000 Facility:
Booking Number: 2004308346

OBTS Number: 5002069873
Booking Date: 02/17/2004 Time: 21:39

Arresting Agency: DOC PROBATION Officer: VREELAND

Charge: 948.06 (NN) VOCC: STREET VIOLATION

VOP RE: LEWD ASSAULT ** WARRANT TO FOLLOW**<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone more in the know, feel free to correct this, but the way I read this from a legal standpoint is:

DOC= Department of Corrections
VREELAND= probation officer
948.06= section of the penal code that describes the violation, in this case, possession of a controlled substance.
VOCC= violation of criminal code. Basically means the type of violation, in this case a street violation/narcotics and possibly the manner in which he was arrested.
VOP= violation of prior/previous. Basically his prior arrests.
WARRANT TO FOLLOW= either they're digging up the warrant for the previous arrest, or they're going to publish the warrant for the current arrest later.

Anyone with more expertise?

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 06:56 PM
Hopefully they keep the information up-to-date.

Link to Police blotter (http://www.pbso.org/corrections/index.cfm?fa=blottersearch&requesttimeout=500&start_date=02%2F17%2F1980&end_date=02%2F18%2F2004&last_name=kraus&first_name=kenneth&street_name=&city_name=&statute=&arrestingAgency=&recsperpage=5&process=Process+Search)


Fixed the link & grammar - W.

[This message was edited by Weatherford on Feb. 19, 2004 at 04:58 AM.]

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 07:00 PM
BB won't let me edit. It is keep, not keeps.

horse_poor
Feb. 18, 2004, 07:01 PM
i read and reread heidis post and i HOPE it was sarcastic, but sorry, the sarcasm wasnt and still isnt jumping out at me

mayhaps i might suggest a sarcastic smiley for those of us off on an emotional tangent and unable to discern thinly veiled sarcasm? (for the record this is a serious comment not sarcastic)

well i am off to join the "adovcate for sexual predator" group (this is me being sarcastic btw http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

www.oasisequestrian.com (http://www.oasisequestrian.com)

rottenrobbie
Feb. 18, 2004, 07:32 PM
KNOBSTETTER...IF YOU HAVE BEEN Threatened CALL THE POLICE AND YOUR ATTORNEY NOW. This is a SERIOUS MATTER! Be Safe!!!

Heidi
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:00 PM
To be explicit, for the sake of clarification...KK disgusts me, his apologists baffle me, and as the mother of 3, crimes against children are unforgiveable. Is that clear enough for you, horse poor?

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:13 PM
Just a thought:

I wonder how the Towerheads site (John Redfern) is going to deal with this one.

Ignore, report, be honest? Won't it be interesting. Hum!

horse_poor
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:35 PM
yup thanks heidi http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

well said!

molly
*member of just about every clique*
http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

www.oasisequestrian.com (http://www.oasisequestrian.com)

ChagrinSaddlery
Feb. 18, 2004, 08:35 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this or not but Towerheads is posting the news of his arrest on the scroller.

I am a member of the TH site. I enjoy the news and the articles (Kathy you do a really nice job). I will not renew my membership if Ken returns. I pray Ken get's the help he needs. However as a mother, aunt and moral human being, I cannot support someone who has been convicted of a crime against a child.

I will reiterate though that I hope that Ken can straighten his life out. The wake up call is ringing....I hope he answers.

Dana

Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

http://community.webshots.com/album/95482669jtPjKw?504

Jumping Gypsy
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:01 PM
Well I just want to say thank you to all you fine folks here. Yeah, I've been sitting here trying to calculate how many thousands of dollars you must have saved the tax payers of PB by taking on the responsibilty of being the prosecuting attorney, the judge, and the jury in this case. Bravo to you all. I mean who needs to wait on the so called justice system, or the evidence, or the constitutional rights of an "accused",a man that many of you have so often and freely admitted to not knowing personally, it's just great that we have you fine folks watching out for us, eh? America~land of the just! Wow what a country! You give new meaning to the term jury of our peers! Give yourselves a pat on the back!

I do not know this man first hand, yet I do understand that if the charges are true he will have to face the conciquinces of his choices/actions which could be severe. What I do know is that it is not my place or yours to pass judgement on someone/anyone....last I knew that task fell to one of two individuals, the judge presiding over the case in a court of law or God Almighty presiding over the court of life. Anyone here fill either of those positions?? And if you're the latter indivdual, I'd really like to discuss a few obstacles in my own life please.

I have found this entire thread an interesting study in humanity, or at times the lack there of. This thread started out as a report on a man getting arrested for drug pocession, then his past came to light (again), there was a detour into the fashion of drugs through the decades tour, then a thrashing session over someone having the courage to feel pitty and dare I say compassion for this man's sad life, followed by a thesis on the terms of criminal law 101, a brief study of medical research into the proper definitions of drug addictions, another summary of this mans supposed sins, the great debate of parole vs probation, followed by a lesson in verbal assaults to someone who dared to share a personal tradgey and survival story, and then my personal favorite....guilt by mere association, how sweet of some of you to toss Knobsetter's freedom of speech rights aside and send her those lovely emails filled with hatred. Knob, I hope you've copied each one of those notes and have a number for a good attorney-seeing that these fine folks love the law so much, I think you should show some hospitality and invite them for a tour of your local courthouse. So basically in a little under 12 hours time, this man has been tried, convicted, and sentenced by you all. I particularly like how all this went from a man being arrested for having drugs on him to your new charges of basically being the worst sexual offender this planet has ever seen. Yes, the justice system is just amazing.

Several of you have gone on and on about protecting the children, protecting the children. The horse world is unsafe, the streets are unsafe, the schools are unsafe, the internet is unsafe....life is unsafe. This my friends is the reality of the world we've all created here, not just one sad indivdual. All of us. We live in a state of constant fear, worry, and sometimes panic. We probably take in too much of the media really. When was the last time you watched the nightly news and there was something good there? Everynight it's another report of murder, drugs, child abduction, rape, robbery, and the lesser of the evils reported becomes the 2 hour traffic jam. Don't you find that sad? We see and hear so much anger and distress around us that soon it becomes a part of us all. Want to scare yourself more, in regards to the internet being unsafe, several of you referenced how kids (and adults) are lured in. Well that's true sometimes, so if you want to make that accusation of the Towerhead site go ahead, but here's my question....what about this very site? Can you honestly say this is a safe place because it's sponsored by COTH (Erin just making a point using this as an example so don't shoot me!)or because it's based on horse topics? Seriously, how do you know the person you yourself chat with here regularly isn't a former felon or registered offender or substance abuser? How?? Because you chat with them alot? Big deal, Ted Bundy was a great conversationalist right up until the day he was executed. Susan Smith was adorable and sweet, she killed her own children. You have no way of really knowing the people on line other than what they tell you.......so please don't just assume the truth....about anyone.

Bensmom
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Anyone more in the know, feel free to correct this, but the way I read this from a legal standpoint is:

DOC= Department of Corrections
VREELAND= probation officer
948.06= section of the penal code that describes the violation, in this case, possession of a controlled substance.
VOCC= violation of criminal code. Basically means the type of violation, in this case a street violation/narcotics and possibly the manner in which he was arrested.
VOP= violation of prior/previous. Basically his prior arrests.
WARRANT TO FOLLOW= either they're digging up the warrant for the previous arrest, or they're going to publish the warrant for the current arrest later.

Anyone with more expertise?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DOC is indeed the Dept of Corrections and the officer's name is the probation officer that made the arrest.

section 948.06 is actually the section of the criminal statutes that simply means he was picked up on a probation violation. The information on the PBCSO's website does not say what he was VOPped for (Violation of Probation).

Let me clear one thing up -- it basically does not matter whether or not you would personally have a problem with him working in a venue filled with underage children. I'd be stunned if the terms of his probation ALLOWED such a thing.

Mr. Bensmom's position in our agency is the one that works to keep sexual predators under supervision. He said that if it were allowed for someone with a L&L conviction to work around children, he'd be very surprised.

The arrest report did not list a "new law violation" which is what it is termed when you are arrested for something independent of your probation -- instead it simply showed the violaton of the terms of his probation arrest.

Typically, though Florida state law does provide for this, you won't be violated for things that are fairly simple administrative failures to comply -- i.e. reporting violations, being late, failing to call in. If you are, I'm probably going to lose the case on appeal, because many times the appellate courts do not uphold what is termed "a technical violation." Though, as I said above, Florida state law does allow for violating someone for even small technical errors. (Can you tell I hate it when I lose these? If the parole officer thought it was serious enough to VOP'em, I think there is usually good reason, but I digress.)

The warrant to follow may mean that the arrest warrant on the cocaine violation has yet to be filed, or that may be the way that they list it, if the officer has yet to fill out the affadavit of violation of probation.

As I noted above, Mr. Bensmom deals with the cases where there are civil commitments that follow the prison time for sexual offenders/predators. He's handled many of these cases and it is pretty rare that the offenders make a "one time" mistake. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I hate reading the record in the cases where there is a child victim -- all of the sexual assault type cases are bad, but the testimony of these kids is truly awful to read. If I never got anything more other than burglaries and drug cases that would be ok with me.

Just a few more "criminal law in Florida" facts.

Libby

*Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique*

Row Wisco, Row!
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I've lost track :
QUOTE FROM LIMO WREK:
TOPIC TOWERHEADS / DON STEWART REPORT

But to say that he isn't safe because he calls girls lovely is retarded. There are MANY MANY MANY people who are acatually a threat to girls.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please tell me you did NOT just say that. I can't even tell who actually said it...this thread has spun out of control in so many ways.

You just lost all credibility in my book. Please reconsider what you're saying before you say it. I'll let you pick out what has offended me so in the passage. I hope you can figure it out. I don't want to hear about how it's just a matter of vocabulary, either. That is not an educated, credible, politically correct word with any respect for humanity when used this way. Yeah, maybe some people think I took this too far, but certain words and issues run much deeper in some lives than others.

I can't even bring myself to start in on the topic at hand, instead, I bring you-

Things I've learned from this thread:
-Teenagers REALLY DO know it all http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
-I've seen the advent of many new words, and some of the most atrocious spelling and grammar errors out of journalists and other people who write http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif
-There is rampant naivety re: anything & everything http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
-Some people have their priorities all out of whack http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif
-I'm proud to have some others in my BB family http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-Horse people are still the busiest 'talkers' around http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

To be great is to dare to rise above the sea of mediocrity and surround yourself by the elite... To be excellent is to never give in to the mental weakness or fear.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 09:34 PM
WOW..I go shopping for a couple of hours and come back to "this"...WOW!!!

Flour....thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much for trying to be a bi&^%ch about a spelling error...I now dub YOU the spelling teacher for this thread...better start with poor Party Rose and her miss use of "keeps" instead of "keep"..OOPSS YOU MISSED THAT ONE!!

Party Rose..no offense meant, just a little side note to Flour..

Num 1 train....thanks for the compliment. I love to write and find it fun to cover the West Coast.


rottenrobbie...I certainly will do that. I was so shocked when I got it that I hit the "report to AOL" button which deletes it and sends a report to AOL. So I just blocked the address.

I DO hope they send another one so I can follow up !!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I would simply LOVE to hear from them again..

TH's will go on and will be productive. John Redfern is a smart guy and he has the "organization" of his site very much under control.

WOW, what a hot topic...

ps...sorry if I miss spell some words, it comes from being an idiot, as Flour so wildly pointed out...Thanks Flour!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

bigbay
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:03 PM
Phew. Thank you for the clarification Libby. I was taking a few shots in the dark. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Can you speak to my post towards the bottom of page 10 at all, with regard to Florida protocol after the kidnapping?

The legal procedure aspect of things always fascinates me, but I also would hate for people to assume he was being investigated on a new sex offense if that wasn't the case. Even though repeat offense statistics are high for that group, if he's been "good" for ten years, it seems a shame to tar and feather him again, on that count at any rate.

"The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor

Party Rose
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:18 PM
A few friendly corrections. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1. "num1train" Just before I began typing this post & before I made my 11:13 post, I checked everywhere on the Towerhead site & there was no mention ANYWHERE, including on the scroller that I sat through twice, of Ken's arrest. I just wonder if they put it on there for a brief time for some legal purpose.

2. "LH" - Believe me, Ken IS PAID for the work he does for Towerheads.

3. "Nickelodian" - Ken is not just a hunter announcer. How do you think that he gets all of the above the view jumping photos? Why do so many of the judges that he works with complain among themselves that he needs to focus on what the show is paying him to do & not John Redfern web site?

4. "khobstetter" - Any spelling errors? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I just hate this laptop & blow it very often.

khobstetter
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:35 PM
Hey Party Rose..me too!!! My fingers get in the way of the spelling..!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

The information comes up on the TH site when you log in. I also went looking for it but the "scroll" window is different after you log in.

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

JEP
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:43 PM
Party Rose- I am not sure what happened when you checked your scroller but I just looked at mine, and there was a lengthy announcement saying that Kenny K was in fact arrested and facing charges for possession of a controlled substance following a search of his house etc. etc.

Then, basically, they (respectfully) ask that we not be the judge and jury, but rather continue to monitor the situation as more info becomes available-pointing out that every person is entitled to due process of the law. They also assured readers that TH will continue to bring us "todays horse show news today".

I think this is a tactful, honest, and intelligent way to deal with the situation at present.

I hope that this thread maintains (or regains) the maturity that characterizes and continues to draw us to the COTH boards.
I truly appreciate that this BB provides us all with a safe and intelligent forum to discuss our opinions, but please lets not abuse this service by using it to attack or intimidate other posters...

Risey27
Feb. 18, 2004, 10:55 PM
Ok...I had heard that he had his home searched and through that they found the drugs....anyways I am sad to hear of this, I for one did NOT have ANY clue that he was a somewhat "troubled" man...geez I just hope he finds the help he needs...to me this is VERY suprising and I have been reading towerheads since like 1999 when it was still an AOL webpage...anyways just my 2 cents

[This message was edited by Erin on Feb. 19, 2004 at 02:31 AM.]

Erin
Feb. 18, 2004, 11:36 PM
Folks, please DO NOT use this thread as an opportunity to post any random tidbit you have "heard."

There are two documented facts here: that there was a previous conviction, and that there has been a current arrest. Those facts are fair game for discussion. But, as per the BB rules, you CANNOT post anything else that alleges unethical, abusive or illegal behavior unless there's documentation to back it up.

Basically, if you start to type a sentence that begins with "I heard..." -- stop and delete it. This just isn't the place for speculation.

Kestrel
Feb. 19, 2004, 02:38 AM
O.K., here's a rambling post, probably full of spelling errors to boot.

I really don't thik that any of us can find the man guilty of the possesion charge unless we are sitting in the jury box for the trial. When a jury of peers makes a decision, I'll just have to go with that.

On the previous L/L conviction, I feel a bit differently. I wouldn't be suprised if the owner of TH knew of the conviction since many BBers do. I am very curious about KK's access to the email addresses and any other personal information of TH subscribers. For a person with his backround, it gives a wide-open opportunity to give in to temptation IF he does have access. I too was wondering about restrictions on contact w/kids that may be in his probation. Any way to find out?
I work in private education as well as around non-profit programs for kids, and have a had a backround check complete with fingerprinting done everywhere I have worked, and even by organizations where I was just on their property. I was told that the insurance liability of having anyone around kids without a backround check was just too high. Unfortunately, I don't see any sort of comparable screening being used in the horse show world, since parents can choose to (and many do) attend shows with their kids, there is a time lag on the checks and they would have to be done separately in each state. As for trainers, I think many jurisdictions have web sites that you can search.
I just cannot understand any company hiring anyone with a conviction of this type for a job anywhere around children. What were they thinking? One incident and a good lawyer would have everything the manager/owner possessed. I would hope that the punishment certainly didn't stop there for the criminal or the person who knowingly gave them the opportunity. A county fairgrounds where we show used to have prisoners from the local prison sweeping and cleaning bathrooms. When it came to light that a few of these prisoners had convictions of a sexual nature, the program ended due to the proximity of children at the shows.
I know that the most dangerous sex offender is the one in your neighborhood that you don't know about, but we still need to do what is possible (but not always convenient) to keep every one safe.

MAD
Feb. 19, 2004, 03:38 AM
As Lauriep pointed out, KK has always been VERY open about his problems with drugs and the law. The Redferns wrote an open letter addressing it years back. It has been discussed on the TH website and this one many many times. For those that have a problem with juniors having access to that site, shouldn't they remember that it is a subscription/members only site and, therefore, restricted? In addition, TH frowns on sharing of passwords. Who gives a child the money to "join" the site? Their parents, I assume... Shouldn't the ownership be on the parents to know what they are buying [especially since the knowledge of KK's history has always been right there; it has never been hidden]...

Great post, Jumping Gypsy.

BelladonnaLily
Feb. 19, 2004, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MAD:
For those that have a problem with juniors having access to that site, shouldn't they remember that it is a subscription/members only site and, therefore, restricted? In addition, TH frowns on sharing of passwords. Who gives a child the money to "join" the site? Their parents, I assume... Shouldn't the ownership be on the parents to know what they are buying [especially since the knowledge of KK's history has always been right there; it has never been hidden]...

Great post, Jumping Gypsy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree wholeheartedly. Although I must admit that I probably would not have known about him if I hadn't read about it here. I do not frequent Towerheads. But the fact remains, parents must be responsible for their children. It would be quite different, IMHO, if he were a school janitor. Parents have a choice when it comes to the internet (Don't know what your kids are doing on there? Disconnect it. We CAN live without it.) Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of sickos out there and I make no distinction between one who forces sex on a young girl and one who solicits young boys.

nails
Feb. 19, 2004, 04:56 AM
Erin-you should think seriously about shuting down this thread. It is way out of control and has gone on long enough.

Kels
Feb. 19, 2004, 05:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
Beezer- your story is why i HATE COPS. all the cops i have ever met have been very quick to judge me. They don't think about how i make good grades, have a job, ride horses, and am a productive member of society. They just see the bad in me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't want people seeing the bad in you, STOP BEING BAD! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

-Kelsey-
"Where's the fruitbat?!"

Lisamarie8
Feb. 19, 2004, 05:09 AM
Me Thinks a good number of y'all need to get a hobby.

--- For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.

levremont
Feb. 19, 2004, 05:15 AM
Jumping Gyspy: I guess everyone is your friend, from Manson to Kraus? Because you cannot judge another? Give me a break, the man is a creep, it was proven just 10 yrs ago (at age 44?)... I cannot think of any more despicable crime.
The only thing I can judge a person's character by is his actions...I cannot separate a person from his crimes... Yes maybe he will change, maybe he will turn his life around, maybe he has in many ways...however would you want to leave your young boy with him? He will be judged by a higher power...I hope for him that he will have changed. In the meantime I would never consider him a "friend", so yes I will judge him in that respect.

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Magnolia
Feb. 19, 2004, 05:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> h... but either way I think cops tend to over react and assume someone is worse then they really are compared to the 'normal world' outside of cop 'im better then you' world
and I consider my self in the business of knowing cops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sandstone, half of Meck's sherrifs got fired for theft or stealing confiscated drugs! They sure are holier than thou when ya meet 'em though! And, part of their effectiveness is the ability to intimidate - and enforce the law - they have to have the attitude that drugs are bad and drug users are horrible to enforce those laws. The DA and court system is where they see you for you!

But I think the reason they crack down hard is because they can't and don't want to let that ONE slip through their fingers, esp. children. What if they pulled you over and found pot on you, and saw you were high. What if they let you go and you had a car wreck? That would look REALLY BAD.

What if they ignored KK coke and didn't arrest him and a few weeks later found he had committed a worse crime? They'd look really bad.

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

chronic
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:04 AM
I found the list of stadium jumping sponsors - Are there sponsors for the Towerheads site? I can't seem to find any on the home page, but since I'm not a memeber, I don't know if any ads come up once you're in. I'm in major letter wrting mode and would like to know if anyone has info on sponsors for the towerheads site.

Seven
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
... but either way I think cops tend to over react and assume someone is worse then they really are compared to the 'normal world' outside of cop 'im better then you' world
and I consider my self in the business of knowing cops <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*snip*

But I think the reason they crack down hard is because they can't and don't want to let that ONE slip through their fingers, esp. children. What if they pulled you over and found pot on you, and saw you were high. What if they let you go and you had a car wreck? That would look REALLY BAD.

What if they ignored KK coke and didn't arrest him and a few weeks later found he had committed a worse crime? They'd look really bad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Or how about because their job is to enforce the law? Not because they would 'look bad' but because they found you committing a crime for which you should be arrested? That's our system. We've chosen it and you choose to continue to live within it. If you don't like it, consider voting more frequently for those that represent your interets better or perhaps, run for office yourself and work on getting the laws change to reflect more of the "normal world." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

****
NEW YORK HORSE RESCUE (http://www.nyhr.org)

Flash44
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:46 AM
Possession of cocaine is illegal and ground for arrest if you have it on you. It doesn't matter if you are on probation or not. It is the law, everyone knows it, and if you willingly choose to break it, too f*&^ng bad if you get caught.

MAD
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chronic:
I found the list of stadium jumping sponsors - Are there sponsors for the Towerheads site? I can't seem to find any on the home page, but since I'm not a memeber, I don't know if any ads come up once you're in. I'm in major letter wrting mode and would like to know if anyone has info on sponsors for the towerheads site.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, I would say you do not have the right or privilege to this information since you have not paid for it. It is a subscription website and you must be a member to access it. Pay your $89 dollars and you will have access…

867-5309
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:55 AM
The public glee some people are expressing related to this arrest is to me, cruel and overkill. It's VERY valid for folks to feel that this person and his related actions are vile and reprehensible, I hate though that people cannot keep their comments as human and humane as possible. Based on your world view are you thrilled that he got caught and is 'being stopped'? Fine. Say so and move ON. The legal trouble he is in will most likely mean that his positions with SJI and TH will shake out how they are going to shake out without our sensational editorializing in the form of low blows outside a factual and constructive context.

Express yourself truly and honestly by all means, and to the right people. It just all comes across as way more credible without turning up the boil on the already hot water. It's not necessary.

"Lighten up, Francis." -Stripes

Seahorsefarmtobe
Feb. 19, 2004, 06:58 AM
So, back to the original issue...I have a question. Could his probation be revoked for the posession of controlled substance violation?

Jasmine
Feb. 19, 2004, 07:11 AM
Yes, depending on the terms of probation. If one of the terms is "no drug or alcohol use" then he will have is probabtion revoked. If not, he will likely just get slammed for the possetion, if he is convicted.

Predjudice is a poor substitute for thought.

radio talk Aefvue Farms RCA
Feb. 19, 2004, 07:11 AM
That would be dependent on the laws of the state. One would think yes, but that's IMHO.

Seven
Feb. 19, 2004, 07:15 AM
seahorsefarms -- it depends on the terms of the original probation and the actual charges relating to the alleged possession. For instance, if (perhaps) the quantity is sufficient to make it a felony, then the terms of the probation could be revoked and incarceration might result. Alternatively, the conditions could be tightened (increased monitoring, required drug treatment, etc.). Or the previous charges might just be used as an 'enhancement' in sentancing (previous charges within ten years) after the possesion charges are resolved. However, I don't know the terms of the original plea deal or Florida law (I practice in NY).