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diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:09 PM
well, i sold gunner about 2 months ago, if that, and have been pony shopping since, and i think i've found my guy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
here's the link to his pictures, although you should probably read his little story first.. clyde's pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/127289708EgNYYo)
please critique him as best as you can, i'm going to try to get some better shots tomorrow.

his name is clyde, which i do not think suits him at all, he needs a much more elegant name than clyde http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. anyway, he's a 14.1 1/2hh welsh/tb (we think, he doesn't have papers), 7yrs. old (we're having the horse dentist come to cofirm this also), bay with 4 white socks & a big blaze (my dream markings http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

he's for sale due to a divorce, the people hired a broker to sell him, which she did, to the people that kept him for about 6 months.

the people that bought him stuck him in a 20 acre dust pit with about 80 other horses/ponies. they did not feed, give hay, etc., only water. so apparently only the alpha horses ate what little grass there was, and the others starved. clyde isn't an alpha horse, so he lost a good 150-200lbs. during those 6 months.

cindy, my trainers friend (and person she buys basically all her horses from) found him and a few others she really liked about a week before we had schedualed to go to her farm to try out some other ponies. she contacted the people who had him, and they let her take him and another mare to be sold.
so when i got to cindy's, clyde had only been there for i think less than 24hrs. i saw him and was so upset that someone would let any horse get like this.. i didn't even want to ride him because he was so skinny. but he was happily eating his hay, and drinking, and was very alert, etc., so i got on (the first time he had been ridden in 6+ months btw).

he was an angel.. he floats when he trots, very flat-kneed.. and he jumps.. gorgeous, knees to his chin.. and just think when he gets all his weight back.. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif pretty pony.

soo.. he arrived at fair haven today, and i have him on trial til april 3rd. i just messed around with him today, no riding. he's still very timid around people, and just about anything scares him.. the feed bucket is one of them http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

a few questions though.. how much weight do you guys think he needs? my trainer thinks about 150-200lbs.. i think that's a good amount, but i'm not sure.
he's currently on 3/4 scoop (it's a 3qt. scoop, think that's enough for him?) horsemen's edge pellets with a handful of flax seed am/pm. is horsemen's edge a good quality feed (i'm not into all the feed qualities, etc.. don't mind me)? and isn't flax good for their coats? is a handful (which i guess is equal to about 1/2 cup) enough for him? his coat is.. nasty.. it's shedding like crazy (normal, i know), but is very dry and flaky.. i'd give him a bath, but it's going to be too cold for that (esp. b/c our barn doesn't have hot water).

when he was eating tonight he didn't seem very interested in the pellets at all, but that could be due to stress from traveling, so i'll be watching him when he eats in the next couple of days.
we're getting the dentist out soon to check out his teeth also, to rule out any soreness, etc.

also, what do you all think about me riding him.. with his weight and all? i personally feel bad riding him.. but i wanted to know what you guys think.

let me know if you can answer any of those questions, or have any others for me. let me know if you have any suggestions as to what to feed him, etc. feel free to critique his pictures as best as you can, i'll try to get some better ones tomorrow. thanks http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 23, 2004 at 08:19 PM.

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 28, 2004 at 06:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 30, 2004 at 06:28 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 02, 2004 at 07:48 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 03, 2004 at 07:09 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 03, 2004 at 08:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 05, 2004 at 09:09 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 05, 2004 at 09:12 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 06, 2004 at 08:45 PM.]

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:09 PM
well, i sold gunner about 2 months ago, if that, and have been pony shopping since, and i think i've found my guy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
here's the link to his pictures, although you should probably read his little story first.. clyde's pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/127289708EgNYYo)
please critique him as best as you can, i'm going to try to get some better shots tomorrow.

his name is clyde, which i do not think suits him at all, he needs a much more elegant name than clyde http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. anyway, he's a 14.1 1/2hh welsh/tb (we think, he doesn't have papers), 7yrs. old (we're having the horse dentist come to cofirm this also), bay with 4 white socks & a big blaze (my dream markings http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

he's for sale due to a divorce, the people hired a broker to sell him, which she did, to the people that kept him for about 6 months.

the people that bought him stuck him in a 20 acre dust pit with about 80 other horses/ponies. they did not feed, give hay, etc., only water. so apparently only the alpha horses ate what little grass there was, and the others starved. clyde isn't an alpha horse, so he lost a good 150-200lbs. during those 6 months.

cindy, my trainers friend (and person she buys basically all her horses from) found him and a few others she really liked about a week before we had schedualed to go to her farm to try out some other ponies. she contacted the people who had him, and they let her take him and another mare to be sold.
so when i got to cindy's, clyde had only been there for i think less than 24hrs. i saw him and was so upset that someone would let any horse get like this.. i didn't even want to ride him because he was so skinny. but he was happily eating his hay, and drinking, and was very alert, etc., so i got on (the first time he had been ridden in 6+ months btw).

he was an angel.. he floats when he trots, very flat-kneed.. and he jumps.. gorgeous, knees to his chin.. and just think when he gets all his weight back.. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif pretty pony.

soo.. he arrived at fair haven today, and i have him on trial til april 3rd. i just messed around with him today, no riding. he's still very timid around people, and just about anything scares him.. the feed bucket is one of them http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

a few questions though.. how much weight do you guys think he needs? my trainer thinks about 150-200lbs.. i think that's a good amount, but i'm not sure.
he's currently on 3/4 scoop (it's a 3qt. scoop, think that's enough for him?) horsemen's edge pellets with a handful of flax seed am/pm. is horsemen's edge a good quality feed (i'm not into all the feed qualities, etc.. don't mind me)? and isn't flax good for their coats? is a handful (which i guess is equal to about 1/2 cup) enough for him? his coat is.. nasty.. it's shedding like crazy (normal, i know), but is very dry and flaky.. i'd give him a bath, but it's going to be too cold for that (esp. b/c our barn doesn't have hot water).

when he was eating tonight he didn't seem very interested in the pellets at all, but that could be due to stress from traveling, so i'll be watching him when he eats in the next couple of days.
we're getting the dentist out soon to check out his teeth also, to rule out any soreness, etc.

also, what do you all think about me riding him.. with his weight and all? i personally feel bad riding him.. but i wanted to know what you guys think.

let me know if you can answer any of those questions, or have any others for me. let me know if you have any suggestions as to what to feed him, etc. feel free to critique his pictures as best as you can, i'll try to get some better ones tomorrow. thanks http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 23, 2004 at 08:19 PM.

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 28, 2004 at 06:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Mar. 30, 2004 at 06:28 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 02, 2004 at 07:48 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 03, 2004 at 07:09 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 03, 2004 at 08:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 05, 2004 at 09:09 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 05, 2004 at 09:12 PM.]

[This message was edited by diffuse01 on Apr. 06, 2004 at 08:45 PM.]

Giddy-up
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:20 PM
I think he's cute! And you are very lucky to have him for so long to try. That will really give you a good idea of how he really acts. I don't think he looks too skinny to not be ridden (I remember you saying your pretty tiny anyways). I would watch though as he gains some weight & muscle in the next few weeks you have him (and I wouldn't try fattening him up too fast either) to see how he reacts as far as energy level & such. What was once a quiet malnourished animal could become quite a handful when properly fed & therefore may not be the animal you want. See how he settles & try doing different things with him as time goes on & watch how he handles it.

I am sorry you sold Gunnar (even though you knew that was best) cause that's always a bummer, but am happy to hear you have been out shopping. And what's wrong with Clyde? It's kind of off beat & fits him (mini-clydesdale markings). http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"...but now the gloves are coming off and it's going to get ghetto." Robby Johnson

vxf111
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:26 PM
Awe, I like him. And I think Clyde actually suits him and is sort of funny, being that he's pretty little and clydesdales are big.

I do agree with you and your trainer that he looks awfully thin. Look at his neck and barrel and how sucked up he is in his abdomen. Poor baby! I think he'll look awesome once he starts getting worked, I really like his type.

I think you can let him dictate, to some extent, how much work he can handle. I think light work can only be good for him, better to let him slowly build muscle rather than try to put fat on him and then work it off. Plus it'll keep him mind engaged and probably make his easier to deal with in the long run. If you're truly apprehensive about riding him-- why not teach him to line drive? That was you can work him gently and let him get his stamina up some. But I really don't think light riding will hurt him (assuming you're an appropriate size for him and are going to be attentive to what he can and cannot handle).

Good luck with him!

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:33 PM
haha, i never even thought of clydesdales = clyde.. he does look like a mini clydesdale http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. oh well, we'll see about the name, that's the least of my worries with him now.

giddy-up, we did get lucky with the trial situation.. we pressed the issue with cindy and she finally let us have him for longer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. my trainer thinks he's fine to be ridden lightly.. yes i'm tiny haha, so i doubt i'll do him much damage.
and about the quite, malnourished animal thing, as that was how gunner was! he wasn't skinny or anything, but he was being fed poor quality hay/feed, and was anemic when i got him.. 6 months after i bought him he was a completely different horse http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.. personalities just don't always work, but we found him a great home, i hear from his new owner all the time about how much she loves him http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

vxf.. i know.. he's so skiny.. those pictures actually make him look a little bit fatter.. when your standing away from him you can count every rib, and his neck is about the thickness of my arm http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. i think i'll talk more with my trainer about a riding routine on tuesday, and see what she thinks. i don't think light work will hurt him.. i just don't want to make him loose any weight by burning calories!
but he's in a huge 5 acre pasture with 2 other horses now.. so he should gain pretty quickly (i hope).

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Lord Helpus
Mar. 21, 2004, 06:53 PM
Don't worry about the number of pounds he needs. Just keep going until he is at a weight that looks good on him.

There are many threads on the Horse Care BB about getting weight on a horse. First: I would do a Panacur power pack to clean out his system of parasites -- no point in feeding the worms instead of him. And if he has been neglected for this long, a single dose of wormer will not clear out everything. After the 5 days of the power pack, add a good probiotic to his feed to re-establish the good stuff in his gut.

Then, go to 3 meals a day -- horses are meant to be eating small amounts all day, not gul***g food twice a day. Build up to 6 - 8 qts/day of a medium protein, high fat feed. Make sure it has beet pulp in it or add beet pulp (get the shredded kind and soak it first, even for 30 min). I would also add flax meal (from the feed store) and Black Oil Sunflower seeds (from the bird feed section of PetSmart). You can also build up to a cup or two of oil (corn oil from the grocery store is fine if he will eat it. Otherwise, rice bran oil from the feed store).

And, of course, good quality hay available at all times.

Some exercise is good for him. It will stretch his muscles and make him hungry for his next meal. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I bet by the end of summer you will own a really fancy and shiny pony.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SIGH... I tried to block my P-I-N number for my bank acct from being uploaded. Instead, I seem to have blocked the letters P,I,N. So, anytime you see *** put in p-i-n until further notice. SIGH...

EqTrainer
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:00 PM
He is very cute http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ditto on what everyone said about feeding him... corn oil is wonderful stuff for fattening them up, and ALL the hay he will eat...

My only concern about him is how straight he is behind. He is *straight*. So given his state, I think you should buy him if the price is right (and given his condition, it sure had better be right!) but perhaps consider that he might have a tougher time staying sound behind than a pony that was better built. Then again, who knows..

regardless, he needs you and you need a pony http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif good luck to both of you!

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:07 PM
lh- where can i get the panacur stuff? would a tack shop sell it?.. i guess i'll go check that out maybe tomorrow, or sometime this week.

eqtrainer- we were actually discussing how straight his is tonight.. but like you said, who knows. i think his price is right.. what do you guys think he'd go for, just from those pictures (again, i'll get better ones tomorrow).. hopefully it'll be somewhat close to what their asking for him..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:16 PM
oh i forgot to ask.. what about body clipping the first week of april (that's when i'll know if i am buying him of not)? think that's going to screw up his summer coat.. or do you think it may help since his coat is so nasty right now? i'm so tempted to get my clippers out.. i cannot STAND shedding lol.. and his coat is so long.. blah..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:21 PM
Just deworm him.. rotate them around, and all that nasty hair will fall right out http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:40 PM
ah yes, good idea.. i need to go buy some worming stuff tomorrow.. lots to do! i can't get too carried away though, i don't own him yet http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Lord Helpus
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:43 PM
Diffuse, YOu should be able to get the Panacur Power Pack anywhere you get regular wormer. My tack shop sells it, but so does my feed store. Others have had some trouble finding it in their town, though, so you might want to call ahead. Each tube is a double dose and you give it for 5 days. It takes care of each and every worm that may be in his system. He may have a little diarrhea when he is on it --- not to worry, unless it gets bad.

The Probiotic that you will start after the Panacur (no point in giving it with the Panacur since it will be wiped out of his system with all the bad stuff in there)will reinstall the correct flora and fauna in his system and his insides will be fresh as a daisy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Then, just watch the weight pour on.

Yes, you can clip him in April. But if you curry, curry, curry, (and once the worms are gone) he will shed out quickly. And a bath, as soon as it is warm enough will make his hair look better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SIGH... I tried to block my P-I-N number for my bank acct from being uploaded. Instead, I seem to have blocked the letters P,I,N. So, anytime you see *** put in p-i-n until further notice. SIGH...

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:48 PM
thanks for that info., i'll be making a visit to the tack shop/feed store tomorrow to get info. on all of these things http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i just can't wait to go out there and curry away at him.. i was attempting to use the shedding blade on him today and he was not to sure about that.. i just want all of his nasty long hairs to go away!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:50 PM
Kady, when they are boney, the shedding blade can hurt http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif be patient, it will come out http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

norcalammie
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:54 PM
One of the boarders at our barn brought in a very skinny TB. She had his teeth checked & they were awful, had him wormed, got him on 3 balanced meals a day and added a rice brn coat conditioner. They put him on light work and then gradually built up time. He is now super shiney, has put on weight, built muscle and just glows. He has also settled into the routine and rather than getting higher is getting calmer every day.

Good luck with Clyde....the name fits him.

diffuse01
Mar. 21, 2004, 07:57 PM
i never even thought of the shedding blade hurting http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif.. he's scared of the thing too.. backed himself right into a corner anytime i touched him with it.. i think i'll stick to the curry comb http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

the dentist called tonight and we're schedualing something for this week i believe.. at least if i don't buy him he'll have nice teeth http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.. but i think i will be buying him (as long as he passes the vet check.. which is march 30th, cross your fingers http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).. who can resist that face?

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Drakaina16
Mar. 21, 2004, 09:00 PM
Awww, poor skinny thing. He is absolutely gorgeous, though, I love his markings! I think he'll be a very lovely boy once he gets some groceries.

Danya

PonyPlay
Mar. 21, 2004, 09:09 PM
I think your trainer is right about how much weight he has to gain and what she is feeding him. Since he didn't have a good food source for so long he needs to be brought back up to weight slowly.Did you ever consider that he could be a quarter pony? I'm looking at his head and it seems very quarter horsey to me, we had one that looked almost just like him (except he was a chesnut and a hony http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif)

Me:"...but you said stop after the last fence"
Trainer:" NO, I said TROT after the last fence"

diffuse01
Mar. 22, 2004, 05:21 AM
never thought about him being a qh pony.. only because he is verrry refined (some due to skinniness though).. i think he has some arab in him, he has these huge arab eyes, remind me of my arab i had. i just had a quarter pony, and he looks nothing like him lol, but we'll see once he gains his weight back!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Mar. 22, 2004, 06:11 AM
I was thinking too, that he looks QH/Arab. LOTS of ponies that are supposedly half welsh but have no papers are really half Arab. Not a bad thing! Just a thing http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Senatobia
Mar. 22, 2004, 09:08 AM
diffuse: where did you get him from? I know of a place in orange VIRGINIA (Oakland Heights) and when I went there to look at a WB a few weeks ago there was a pony who looks IDENTICAL to this guy. I'm talking exactly alike him who is supposedly a really fancy hunter pony (he had a nice price tag though)..

"He's blowing snot on it so you won't eat it because he knows that choclate cake means fat mommy, and fat mommy means more to carry around. He's really looking out for your best intrests!"

prider80
Mar. 22, 2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EqTrainer:
I was thinking too, that he looks QH/Arab. LOTS of ponies that are supposedly half welsh but have no papers are really half Arab. Not a bad thing! Just a thing http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding! How do you know this? (Not doubting you--just curious!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Diffuse, I think he's ADORABLE! Best of luck with him and please post more pics as you go!

diffuse01
Mar. 22, 2004, 04:19 PM
who knows about his breed haha.. i just know he moves great & jumps great, and isn't extremely stocky http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. we were told he was welsh/tb from cindy, who was told by the people she got him from.

Senatobia: you know, i'm not sure about the actual place that cindy (my trainer's friend) found him at.. she just told me what the conditions were like, etc.
they did tell her that he showed in south carolina (under the show name The Diplomat) and did very well.. and was sold there for $45k.
he'll be a verrry nice hunter pony once he fills out, i'm riding him tomorrow and will be getting someone to take some pictures so you guys can see him move, and maybe some jumping ones (if any turn out half decent).
they told us they'd sell him for $20k.. which is a little over our budget, but once the vet check gets done, we may have some things to work with to get his price down a bit.. is that how much these people were asking for the pony you saw??

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 22, 2004, 05:09 PM
also, i couldn't find the panacur at ANY of the local tack shops (only 2 that are close to the barn), so i got a tube of strongid and gave him that. i also got a tube of pro-biotic and gave him just a little bit of that, because my trainer said we didn't want to shock his system too quickly.

he seems to be eating better today, doesn't really like his flax seed though http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.
he's also not really liking the hay.. it's regular timothy hay.. and i checked it to make sure it was ok, and it smells/looks fine.. so who knows.. he kind of pushes it around his stall.. eats a bite.. then looks at it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. we're getting the dentist out next monday (earliest she could come :/), so maybe he'll eat better once his teeth are done.

i groomed him for like.. 2 hours today.. started with the curry comb, which he didn't like too much, but he gave in after awhile.. then i tried the shedding blade again and he was fine with it today, just verrry tense whenever i touched him with anything.
but he looks SO much better, i will take new pics of him tomorrow of me riding and him in general http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Whiskey Lullaby
Mar. 22, 2004, 06:19 PM
I loff him! I also think Clyde suits him.

Speak kindly to your little horse,
And soothe him when he wheezes,
Or he may turn his back on you,
And kick you where he pleases.

diffuse01
Mar. 22, 2004, 06:37 PM
haha, all of you saying his name suits him is making me think of keeping that if i do buy him..
when i was grooming him today i kept saying his name, but he didn't really respond.. so at least if i do change it it won't be that much of a hassel.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Senatobia
Mar. 23, 2004, 08:50 AM
If it is the same pony : they had told me the owners wanted 15k. I am not sure, he looks IDENTICAl though...I will say that alot of people price horses quite a bit higher than they expect to get...

"He's blowing snot on it so you won't eat it because he knows that choclate cake means fat mommy, and fat mommy means more to carry around. He's really looking out for your best intrests!"

Midge
Mar. 23, 2004, 09:37 AM
Something else you may want to do is measure him. If he measures tight underweight, he may be hard to measure under once he gains weight.

I don't recall a pony named The Diplomat, but the pony ring often flies under the radar with me. Maybe contact USAEq about a record?
If he has a good history you can access, his price is probably pretty good. The pony prices in WEF this year were out of this world crazy. If you really can't put together a legitimate record on him, make them an offer.

*****
Still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions.

creseida
Mar. 23, 2004, 01:27 PM
They want $20k for him in his present condition???? Also, maybe it's just the pictures, but his left front in at least two of the photos appears to be clubbed.

Otherwise he's definitely cute. Honestly, though, I'd not pay more than $10k for an un-papered pony in that condition, unless you can absolutely verify 100% that he is The Diplomat and his show ring accomplishments were that good. Word of mouth would not be enough "proof" for me. JMO.

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

On Second Thought
Mar. 23, 2004, 01:51 PM
What Cressy Said Times 2 and subtract 6,000 dollars.

--The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.

Sam Iam
Mar. 23, 2004, 02:58 PM
$20k http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif for a pony they weren't feeding. I bet they'd take less than 1/4 of that. I'd need that show record verified and a close to flawless vet check before I'd spend more than a couple thou. on this little guy. He sure is cute, but that sounds awfully pricey to me, although I don't know the market in your area. Just my 2 cents.

diffuse01
Mar. 23, 2004, 06:14 PM
well clyde's looking better everyday.. his coat is improving, and he is 100% better in his stall with me grooming him, etc.
he's actually starting to show his personality, very nosey, in your pocket, just what i wanted http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

senatobia: who knows if he's the same guy.. maybe he has a twin http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..

midge: we're going to measure him on thurs. i think, or if we forget then, i know he'll be measured for the vet check (march 30th). i didn't think about contacing usaeq.. i think i'll do that tonight, thanks for the idea http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. hopefully i can get some history on him, i personally think his price is good, because i've seen him in person, and i know how good he moves, and how good he jumps, in this condition.. think of it when he gains all that weight back.
we actually did make them an offer when we were deciding to bring him here or not, because he was 25k, and our budget was 20k, so there would've been no point to bring him if they weren't going to lower the price. they said 20k was the best they could do.. but i guess if there's something found in the vet check (other than the obvious thinness), we'll def. try to get them lower.

creseida: yeah.. 20k for mr. skinny.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif i really need to get some over fences pics up here.. then you can really see where he excells. i'm the last person to ask about conformation, so his foot looking odd (those pics were taken at angles, on unlevel footing) would slip past. that's what the vet check is for haha.
as far as papers, i don't really care about those, you can tell he is well bred, well put together, etc., just by looking at him up close (imo)..
but i will def. try to get as much info. on him as possible, because i'm one of those people that wants to know birthdays, past show exp., etc.. i've always wanted to buy a pony that the owners had foal pics of too.. never has happened though http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ost: i personally think that 4k for him is waaay too cheap, but maybe that's because the ponies/horses i see around here that go for 4k are.. less than nice. i know his weight is a big deal, but you have to look past that right now (which is what we're all trying to do) and think of what he WILL look like in a month or so.

samiam: i know.. it's really sad that they didn't feed, worm, etc. him but want that much http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.. but like i said to midge, they won't go under 20k at this point, but the vet check hasn't been done yet, so if they do find something wrong, we will try to get them down.
the market here in va is pretty expensive, when i would call breeders, sale barns, etc. around here (middleburg, fredricksburg, d.c., warrenton, etc.) and tell them my price range, you could tell they weren't too impressed. one actually told me i wouldn't find anything around here that met my specifications (large, under 10yrs., quiet, flashy, lots of chrome, etc.) for my price range http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif.. and we've had many others tell us 'only 20k??' like it's pennies to them..

anywho.. i took lots of pictures of him today.. and attempted to get him to stand square on a somewhat level surface (the barn driveway.. but it's a bit sloped).. but he has discovered green grass and is quite intent on eating all day http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. so basically all of the pictures were taken on somewhat of an angle (thanks to my dad who was freezing taking the pictures as fast as he could).. but you'll get the general idea i suppose.. let me know what you think http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, the link to my webshots album is in my signature.

edited to add: if you've been to the album before, make sure you refresh it if the new pictures aren't showing up (i think there's 14 in the album now).. sometimes webshots takes awhile to upload them.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 23, 2004, 06:27 PM
ugh.. just to let everyone know, webshots says that pictures added can take up to 30min. to show up on public pages http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif.. soo.. just keep refreshing the page til there are 14 pics in the album i suppose http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

vxf111
Mar. 23, 2004, 07:36 PM
Wow, I would NOT pay $20,000 for him. He's a cutie pie and may be a nice, nice pony-- but you can get a lot more in a lot better condition for that price. Don't interpret this as me saying I don't like him-- I do, but I think that's quit a bit over prived given (1) the poor condition he's in (2) the time he's presumably been out of training (3) the fact that he's not currently showing (4) the time you'll have to wait to get him showing again [I wouldn't pay $20,000 for a 7 year old pony I couldn't go show right after I bought him, and you won't be able to show this guy for a while] (5) Not only is he unpapered but you don't have a clue what his background is. No papers and winning= no problem. No papers and nothing else= price should come down. I like him, but don't settle if you're willing to spend $20,000 because you CAN get a lot for that if you keep looking!

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

diffuse01
Mar. 23, 2004, 07:49 PM
yeah, i know i can get much better condition for the price he is, but i'm becoming quite fond of him.. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif i emailed usaeq tonight, hopefully they can give me some info..

webshots is making me quite angry at the moment.. it still isn't showing the new pics.. do you guys seem them?

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

vxf111
Mar. 23, 2004, 08:21 PM
I can see the new pictures.

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

diffuse01
Mar. 23, 2004, 08:39 PM
yay http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif thanks for letting me know.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

creseida
Mar. 23, 2004, 09:25 PM
I am in the Warrenton/Fredericksburg/Middleburg area and that is still very high for a pony in that condition.

For example, here (http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=409032) is a 14.0 pony by Moxley Duncan so you know the good breeding is there. $8,000

Here (http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=383385) is a registered section B welsh for $3,000 with show mileage

This (http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=395833)is a 14.2 pony that I know. She is VERY flashy and really picks up her knees. Has shown successfully. $8,500. She came from a well-known breeder of $100k ponies in Massachusetts.

However, it is nice that you like him and think he's cute, and as the saying goes, an animal is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for him. Let's hope his cute temperament stays the same when he's fit, healthy and full of groceries. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

[This message was edited by creseida on Mar. 23, 2004 at 11:37 PM.]

CKCP
Mar. 23, 2004, 10:32 PM
I agree with creseida.

There are so many "unknowns" and I think that just because he is a cute mover/jumper doesnt mean that you should be sold on this pony. I have a feeling that you are falling in love with his "flashyness". I would have trouble stroking a check for 5K for him even if he is a cute mover/jumper.

I saw that you said you will be able to see a difference in a month. A month won't be long enough to see what he is really going to look like. When their condition is that poor, it will take months to bring him up to normal flesh.

He is cute, but 20K is overkill without papers, show record, etc. And how do you even know that this pony is The Diplomat. There are many cute bays w/ 4 white socks out there. No matter how much you trust someone, word of mouth would never be good enough for me.

Everything else aside, he has a kind eye and a cute face. If you do get this pony, I wish the best for you.

diffuse01
Mar. 24, 2004, 05:15 AM
creseida: trust me, i know that 20k is too much for him in his current condition, which is why we're all trying to look past his thinness right now.
to me, the first 2 ponies you listed aren't very fancy, but that's just my opinion. what i'm looking for is something like this (http://www.bigeq.com/poniesforsale/3-11-04_shamsraspberry.jpg) & this. (http://www.bigeq.com/poniesforsale/2-20-04_theoneandroanly.jpg) and those are just 2 examples.. anyway.. i did actually email about the paint pony awhile ago, and didn't get an email back (unless i looked over it, or it got sent to the wonderful aol spam folder).

jastb: i know there's a ton of unknown things about him.. i'm trying to get as much info. (info. that i know is true) on him as possible.
his markings are one thing i've fallen for, most definately, but that's not the only thing. he reminds me of my arab i owned and sold in '02 (long story, i did not want to sell him), he has many of tim's characteristics, etc.
when i said we'll see what he looks like, i said 'in a month or so', so that meant anywhere from a month to however long it takes to get him looking good again http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.
as i said, papers don't really mean much to me. i've had them on my past 2 horses and all i really cared about was that it showed their real b-day.. i'm really not into breeding/lines, etc., as long as they look well put together, well breed, etc., that's good enough for me.
i have no clue if that is his true show name, i was told that is was by cindy, who was told by the other people. that's why i contacted usaeq with a description & picture of him last night, to see if they knew anything.
i've been looking at many ponies lately, probably around 15-20, and none have been as nice looking (aside from his thinness) as he is.. maybe i'm just having bad luck http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

also, his price is 20k, but it may have been cheaper before he got involved with now 2 brokers.. i have no doubts that they probably have raised his price a bit to try to get more $ for both of them, but who knows.

and i didn't post last night that i rode him yesterday and he was perfect. went around the ring like he had been there his whole life http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

ClemsonGraduateRider
Mar. 24, 2004, 05:34 AM
Well shoot - I wouldn't pay $20k for him right now but if you've got the money to burn and you feel like he will be worth it in the long run then go for it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And yes I'm sure the brokers have added at LEAST $5k to his price.

And hey if he doesn't work out maybe you can sell him at $20k to someone else http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

On a side note there have been quite a few threads on VPBA ponies in the No VA area. Do a search and you will find many pony breeding farms in your area that will definitely have ponies that are fancy and in the $20k range. Can't hurt to look around a little more, right?

- - - - - -
"I found my inner bitch and ran with her." ~ Courtney Love

diffuse01
Mar. 24, 2004, 05:57 AM
correct, we're still looking http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif actually we may be going to pa soon to look at about 5.. just b/c i've found one i really like doesn't mean i'm gonna stop searching http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

pwynnnorman
Mar. 24, 2004, 02:08 PM
diffuse01, I have a pony that jumps exactly like the two you posted pictures on and I'm in the same area as you, but can't get $5k for him--and he's got a fairly easy lead change, too! Why? Yeah, no show mileage and he falls under that "if it's not a machine, it's green" category...and he's a small large, not a large large.

I'm saying this because I think you've noted a lot of relevant things, but you've left out the temperament and a lot of other trainer-driven issues which could be a big questions with this pony. I don't know who you train with, but I've found in this area that there's a huge gap in the prices around here: like $3500 or less OR $20,000 or more. If it isn't EXACTLY perfect, it's worth nothing. And the silly suspicion that if it isn't a $20K pony, it's isn't worth looking at, even if it's an $12K pony missing only mileage, like mine.

(I'm not criticizing you specifically--what you say is very true: when I had the pony I mentioned in NJ, I put his price at $8K just before I moved and got tons more calls than when he was half that.)

Would that trainers were still THEMSELVES putting mileage on good basics and the fancy jumps in your pictures (instead of making their clients pay so much for the perfect package)! And could recognize that stride length isn't necessarily correlated with height at withers! In fact, the fancy guy this thread is about looks quite short-backed. Did I miss a discussion about his stride? His trot looks cute, but how's his canter? I'm sure it could be quite long and pretty, but it does look like he has a rather short back.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

DOME
Mar. 24, 2004, 03:01 PM
Diffuse01-

Check your Private topics.

DOME
"It's a passion and an obsession...100% is not enough."
"Give it hell till the end, cause once you quit you can't get it back again."

diffuse01
Mar. 24, 2004, 04:37 PM
pwynnorman: sounds like you have a nice pony on your hands http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. you are right about the 'the pony must be perfect and never do one thing wrong or it's not worth anything' thing around here.. or maybe it's in alot of areas.. i don't know, but i know what you mean.
and there def. is a huge gap in the prices too.. my arab was bought for only $3500, gunsmoke, my last pony was bought for $12k, and we had gotten them down from $15k b/c he was anemic http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.
i do have to admit though, when i search for ponies on dreamhorse, equine, etc., i do start the 'minimum price' at $3500, just because i try to weed out the ponies that i know will probably be too green for me, etc.

there hasn't been any discussion about clyde's stride yet.. his canter seems very floaty, like his trot (although his canter is much more comfy than his trot.. i'm not used to the trot he has yet, b/c i've been riding all these tiny ponies who seem like tinker toys. clyde's trot pushes you up when you post, it's kinda cool) and very easy to sit to.. i'll try to get some pictures of it sometime so you guys can see.

anyway, clyde update again.. i rode him today again and he was perfect. i'm going to jump him tomorrow, and give him a bath if it's warm enough (lower 70s is the forecast http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).. he really needs one, he has rain rot on his back and i want it gone!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

J. Turner
Mar. 24, 2004, 08:18 PM
with all due respect to you, diffuse, I can't believe anyone could expect 20K from a skinny, furry, rainrotted pony. It's almost an insult to the buyer. I really think you could find something for under that, unless he really is a miracle. But if he was already showing and had no issues, how did he end up in this state?

My Photo Albums (http://community.webshots.com/user/jessicaseamus)

"When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes."
-- Shakespeare, Henry V

DancingPretense
Mar. 24, 2004, 08:31 PM
I have been following this thread and think the pony is really cute. But despite how wonderful he is that is way to much for a pony in his condition and if he was the fancy show pony, what happened? Why didn't someone snatch him up when he was still showing. I would use his condition to get the price way down and even though I know your maternal side has set in to take care of him I would hold off until you vet and use it to your advantage that he is not in good shape at all if you do want to buy him.

I also thought there was some law/rule about double commissions being not allowed? (probably way off)

http://community.webshots.com/user/ridenyc

diffuse01
Mar. 24, 2004, 08:37 PM
oh i know, like i said, i never said 20k was a good price for him in this condition http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.

apparently his former owners went through a divorce, and told the broker that had him in this condition to do whatever to get rid of him, and get a good amount of $ for him.. soo that's what their doing.. and in that time, i guess the people just decided not to feed him, or any of the other horses http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 24, 2004, 08:40 PM
dancingpretense: we must've posted at the same time, see my post below yours for why (although there isn't any *good* reason for letting him get like this) he's in the condition he is.

maybe he wasn't for sale when he was showing http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif, i don't know. like i said, i know nothing about him, other than his name, his height, and that he's quiet cute http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

and i'm telling myself not to get attached daily, just because i know that something may happen with the vet check, etc. we'll see come march 30th http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

bigbay
Mar. 24, 2004, 08:52 PM
diffuse-

I think he's very cute, I really like his bone structure (unfortunate that you can see so much of it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) and you sound like a really reasonable kid with a good head on your shoulders. If 20k was in your budget anyway, and this pony fits everything you wanted, I say get him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You'll end up with a 20k pony regardless once you get him fed up and fattened out (just beware of those personality changes once they have some feed in them!). Good luck!

"It is good to be fine."

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 05:00 AM
thanks bigbay, http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

so far, he's everything i want in a pony, minus the thinness, but we'll see how he is once he gains that weight back.
although we do have him on 1/2 scoop grain, 1/2 scoop horsemen's edge pellets + 1 cup of flax seed twice a day, with all the hay he wants, so you'd think if he was going to be a nut, he would be. but i know what you mean, my last pony wasn't thin when we got him, but he was on crap feed/hay, anemic, and just not very healthy looking. once we got him on red cell for a month, and good quality feed/hay, he was a different pony.

he's kind of odd though, in the stall he's skittish (but getting tons better daily), but once you put a saddle & bridle on him, and get on him, he calms right down and goes to work. no skittishness (i don't know if that's a word.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif), nothing. i guess he just knows what his job is..

i'm going to try to give him a bath today, so i'll bring my camera to take some pictures if i do http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Beam Me Up
Mar. 25, 2004, 11:41 AM
Diffuse,

I know exactly how you feel--I am going through a very similar situation--you can check out my thread ("Anyone know this horse? State College PA area") and see my skinny bay horse without a name that I got from a dealer. I too am trying to track down his name and his past.

Anyway, buying horses can be really hard, especially when you get so many people involved (brokers, dealers, owners, etc.) and all want the sale to go through. Remember, DON'T LET THEM BULLY YOU! If their price takes into consideration anything you can't see and judge for yourself (for example, a show record under a different name) you have a RIGHT as the buyer to confirm that. So don't be afraid to ask for previous owner/trainer names, and follow up all those leads until you get an answer. If they can't prove that this horse is/has done what they claim, they can't charge you for it (and they know that).

You are lucky that you have parents involved--perhaps you can get them to do some of this "dirty work." Or even your trainer could help--I am "officially" an adult and I hate playing hardball.

Anyway, the other question you have to ask yourself, honestly, is why is he here. Sellers and brokers always have sad stories, but horses that get into very sad states tend to have had some reason for not getting picked up already.

For example, I was told my guy was a made 4' jumper, given a show name and a stable name where he was from. Called USAE, local associations, and neither that show name or stable even existed! Yes, I heard excuses, but in the end, when I said:

You have a horse here with no name and no record, who has stood in a field for a year, can hardly be tried to see what he does know, but he's a pretty mover and jumper, and to me that's worth X

I got him for a tiny fraction of your pony. And he's an awesome horse, but I really don't think he's a made 4' horse--yet. So don't be afraid to find out the real dirt and go from there!

Not saying don't buy him--I did!

Good luck!

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 05:08 PM
thanks bmu, this is getting a little frustrating, not knowing literally anything about him.

i'm going to get cindy's number tomorrow and get my mom to call her to ask for the name/phone # of the people she got him from. hopefully they'll have something to give us, proof of a show name, papers, i'm ready for anything at this point.. i don't even know if 'clyde' is his real name http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

i emailed so many people last night, from the nc, sc, va h/j association, & usaeq & ahsa.. got some emails from people in nc back today that said they had nothing, same with usaeq.. nothing from the others yet http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif.

my trainer told me today that he only showed in the children's hunters, and that's not recorded in some circuits.. soo we might not be able to find anything as far as show records go.

but i did give him a bath today with microtec shampoo.. he looks so much better now, his goat is starting to glow http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. and i clipped off all those nasty guard hairs that were all over him (they were like 3in. long! bleh).. so overall he's looking much improved.
then i rode him, and we was perfect once again. today was the first day i jumped him, and he was great, nothing phases him. if he gets in deep, he fixes himself, he automatically adjusts his strides too.. it's very nice. you can feel him bring his knees up over the jumps too http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif.. i really need to get my dad to take some pictures this weekend to show you guys.

anyway.. if anyone on here can help me find out any info. on him, please feel free..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 05:20 PM
oh, one more thing.. actually a question..

would Quitt work for cribbers? clyde came cribbing, but it's controlled with a cribbing strap, but i hate the thing. he doesn't bite onto the wood, just places his teeth on it and sucks in air.. so would quitt help, or should i just stick with the cribbing strap??

-kady-
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LulaBell
Mar. 25, 2004, 05:41 PM
i can't help you with the quitt, the only thing that i've ever used for cribbing is the strap.

this pony looks adorable and has tons of potential...but that's what it is. i think that if a pony/horse has no records or defnite show mileage, it's ridiculous to pay that much for him

what adds to the price is that he/she has proven him/herself in the showring

i say try to get him...but REALLY work on the dealer/agent/broker person and make SURE you don't give in and pay more than is really necessary.

my friend just sold her realllly cute pony (he was 14.1 or 14.2) that had knowledge of his background and show mileage at local and rated shows for around 15K. He wasn't quite as fancy as that chestnut that you posted a picture of from bigeq, but he certainly wasn't far off.

also, the ponies that you posted pictures of are the ponies that are going to command TONS of money...much more than 20K, just fyi - they are the made, expensive ponies you were talking about

OK, enough with my longwindedness and good luck with this! i really hope it works out well for you!

--------------
---Meredith---
--------------

Please don't let Beanie leave Blue Fox!

anyone with tall boots for sale (ladies 9) email me! I'M IN DIRE NEED OF A GOOD PAIR

BelladonnaLily
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:05 PM
"the market here in va is pretty expensive, when i would call breeders, sale barns, etc. around here (middleburg, fredricksburg, d.c., warrenton, etc.) and tell them my price range, you could tell they weren't too impressed. one actually told me i wouldn't find anything around here that met my specifications (large, under 10yrs., quiet, flashy, lots of chrome, etc.) for my price range .. and we've had many others tell us 'only 20k??' like it's pennies to them.."

Hmmm....I just happened to see a pony go recently in Virginia that is adorable, VERY flashy, chrome out the wazoo (four whites above the knees/hocks and white face), sound, dead quiet, excellent mover, 6 yrs old, etc. etc. going for 10K. And I believe this one had papers. And I still think he was overpriced (changes weren't perfect yet). Clyde is cute but I'd keep looking for that price. PLEASE dont' spend 20K because the SELLERS told you he'd done this and that and he'd sold for 2 gazillion bucks a few years ago. That's a pretty lame sales pitch if you have nothing to back it up.

vxf111
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:25 PM
He's a cribber too? That in and of itself would make some people pass or ask for a lower price. I dunno... the more you post the less and less it sounds like this is a $20,000 pony. You even referred to him on another thread as a rescue case! That's some pricey rescue case http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I hope you end up with him, but I hope you end up with him for a lot, lot, lot less. And then think all the extra $$$ you'll have to spend on showing.

~Veronica

"The Son Dee Times"
"Sustained"

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:26 PM
oh i know there ARE ponies out there that sell for less than what i said. but when i called barns to ask about ponies for sale, and described what i wanted, the price range they gave me was at least 20k.

clyde has flying changes down pat, he does them by himself, so that's a big selling point.

and trust me, i don't believe what these people are saying about his show record, etc. which is why i'm doing all the research on my own, to try to find out anything about him. if i don't, oh well, we'll try to get his price down. but at this point, i'm ready to buy him, as long as the vet check goes well, etc. he's just being waaay too perfect for me to pass up just because of his condition, and the fact that he doesn't have papers, show record, etc.
my dad is going to try to get them down on the price, but like he said, we've found something we want, it's in our price range, so why not buy him? we'll see i suppose.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:29 PM
yeah vxf.. he's def. a pricey rescue case http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif..

the cribbing is annoying, but like i said, once the strap is on, he doesn't do it anymore. and he only needs it in the stall, he doesn't do it in the field. so it's not too bad.

as i said in my above post, we are trying to get them to go down on the price. but from what sue said, they are pretty firm on 20k.. so i'm not sure how much lower, if at all, they'll go.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

BelladonnaLily
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:41 PM
Why oh why can't I get buyers like this at my barn? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

diffuse01...did you tell them your max price BEFORE or AFTER they told you what they had? I'll be willing to bet if I called and told them my max price was 10k, they'd tell me about some of the same ponies.

Good luck. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

diffuse01
Mar. 25, 2004, 06:47 PM
haha bella http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..

i believe my trainer told cindy what our price range was ($17k). then when we went to see cindy's ponies, and asked how much clyde was, she just threw out '25k'.. soo i think he probably wasn't that much to begin with, and she added more on to get a bigger commission.
we then told her 25k was too much for us, and that's when the price went to 20k.. so we'll see what happens when my dad brings up all the issues with him (weight, no show record, no papers, basically no backround info.) to cindy, my trainer, and the person who had clyde before cindy.
i'll keep everyone updated on that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

SCEqQueen
Mar. 25, 2004, 07:25 PM
Diffuse: I show on most of the circuits throughout Georgia and SC, especially SC. I have done the childrens hunters and the junior hunters for about four years and before that I did the ponies. I have never heard the name "The Diplomat." Where does your trainer's friend live, in SC? If you can find out the name of the people that showed him in SC, I might be able to help you out.

~Seventh Heaven
~Luck of the Irish
~Occasionally Blue
~Rigaletto

*Proud member of the Dutch Warmblood Clique!*

diffuse01
Mar. 26, 2004, 04:59 AM
cindy (my trainer's friend) lives in northen va, so do the people that cindy got him from. cindy was told he had shown in the sc circuit in children's.. i'm going to get my dad to call cindy today or tomorrow to try to get the name of the people she got him from, and his former owners. i'll let you all know if i get any other info.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Midge
Mar. 26, 2004, 07:26 AM
I tried to walk away from this thread, but self-control was never my strong suit.

I just have to know how so many of you can say he is not worth the price posted when you haven't seen him? We have pictures of him standing, exhibiting his lack of condition. We have pictures of him trotting, which show he is at least an adequate mover. Most importantly, no one has seen him jump. Diffuse tells us he has auto lead changes, is a very good jumper and has been perfect to ride. Those are very valuable commodities.

Papers are meaningless, since he is a gelding. We have all seen 'well-bred' animals we wouldn't take for free.

Conformationally, we have a great idea of how he looks, because nothing is hidden by fat. He may not be the Devon model winner, but he is well put together. If his foot is a bit clubby, it's not the end of the world.

Toulouse, bless her heart, was about the ugliest pony ever and had a couple splints the size of baseballs. You couldn't have purchased that pony her green year for 50,000 and that was almost 20 years ago.

Bottom line, the pony could be the biggest piece of junk to ever hit the ground and not worth 2,000. He could also end up champion at Indoors and someone will be running after diffuse with a 200,000 check in hand. There is no way for any of us to know.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive because I just paid what was for me a fortune for a horse that would have been ripped to shreds by the conformation experts who use that as a price basis for a performance horse. Rudy is not as well put together as Clyde and is not as good a mover. I free leased Midge, the beauty contest and hack winner, because I couldn't ride her.

diffuse, if you are happy with your pony, buy him. If he's an 'A' show quality pony, he's a bargain.

*****
Still trying to find the answers to life's persistent questions.

BelladonnaLily
Mar. 26, 2004, 07:43 AM
I personally have no idea whether this pony is worth 20K or not, for exactly the reasons you stated Midge. The problem, as I see it, is that diffuse doesn't know whether he's worth 20K either. I can only speak for myself but I guess I would encourage diffuse to keep looking before deciding. She mentioned early in the thread that she was going to do that and then seemed to become really "attached" by the next page. Easy to do once you have them home, but that doesn't always make for sound decisions when horse-buying. I just get the feeling this pony is not exactly what he's being marketed as and that diffuse may get ripped off. She and her dad obviously don't mind so I guess that's okay, but I'm only basing my opinion on what she has told us.

foursocks
Mar. 26, 2004, 07:45 AM
Hear, hear, Midge!

If you get him, which it sounds like you might (plus, he *needs* you!), I am sure you'll be very happy with the way he turns out- you sound like a smart kid and your parents remind me of when I was on the parental gravy train ("Well, he is only 8 bajillion dollars- that *is* a good price! Ok, we can get him.")- you're lucky to have them!

Good luck and I hope you end up with a pony you love- it sounds like you are on the right track!

Edited to add: the thing is, diffuse has already wound up with a pony she couldn't ride- it is understandable that the value of one she can ride is going to be based quite a bit on that characteristic- A show ponies are freakishly spendy, and a lot of them are little pigs. If this guy has the movement, the jump, *and* the temperment, then his value for diffuse is higher than a cheaper or more expensive pony she can't get along with. Anyway, I am the queen of shopping for bargains, and the sellers sound like any horse trader, so it's good this family is doing their homework to try to get the price down, but in the end, its going to be diffuse's quality of life that is being affected- and I'm sure she is quite aware of that!

You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil

creseida
Mar. 26, 2004, 09:24 AM
Midge, I think you have some good points. We only know what diffuse has posted here. But, she's asked questions and such about him and we've done our best to give HONEST answers to her. No one here has been mean to her or anything. But it seems like this pony has a questionable history, and the price is based on that history. It would really be a shame if these people paid $20,000 for a pony that has done NOTHING to justify such a price, when there are proven ponies out there for less. If he is this Diplomat pony with the record they claim he has, then yes, he's worth it. But no one has been able to back that claim up (yet) with proof. And without that proof, the asking price is unreasonable.

Diffuse, you keep researching this pony. Hopefully everything will work out for you.

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

bigbay
Mar. 26, 2004, 10:44 AM
As far as the cribbing, it's been my experience that Quitt only works with horses that actually chew wood. The windsuckers, which it sounds like your pony is doing, are bored and are essentially hyperventillating themselves. Since their teeth only touch a small portion of the wood and they won't actually taste it until they're done and close their mouth, Quitt doesn't seem to have much effect. The collars seem to work the best.

"It is good to be fine."

diffuse01
Mar. 26, 2004, 02:29 PM
midge: thanks for your comments. i'm going to try to get my dad to take some jumping pictures of him this weekend, hopefully some will turn out and i'll post them asap so you guys can all see.
as i said, papers would be nice, but they aren't a necessity. the only reason i would want them is i'd know his exact age/b-day, and who he was related to (just b/c i like know my horses ancestory.. for some reason).

usaeq, ahsa, and most of the nc/sc h/j associations don't have any record of any 'the diplomat' ponies.. so as of right now i don't think we'll be getting a show record for him.
but now that i've been on him since last sunday, i'm not too worried about it.
he moves wonderful, jumps wonderful, has auto changes, and his temperment is great. his only vices are that he cribs, and he's skinny, his weariness of people has completely gone away.
so yes, the price is high for a pony with no show record, but he's prooving to me that he *is* capable of getting a very good show record behind him this season.
but of course, we will definately try to get his price down as much as possible (by mentioning that he does crib, he is underweight, he has no show record, basically nothing is known about him), but as long as he passes his vet check on tuesday, we will be buying him.

bella: i actually went and tried out a couple of other ponies today, they were ok, but not nearly as flashy & good movers as clyde (although i may be byist now that i have found something that is everything i want, other than his thinness).
i doubt he is what he's being marketed as.. but i actually don't know how he was being marketed before cindy found him, if at all. sue (my trainer) said he did the children's, so i'm guessing he was marketed as that, but i'm not sure.

foursocks: yeah, i feel like he does need me, or someone caring right now. he's getting so much better condition wise though, his coat is actually starting to get shiny & coppery looking http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.
i'm *very* lucky to have my parents.. they are great, but after almost 12yrs. of me riding they know what's worth 20k, and what's not.. so i'm letting them decide about prices.. i just find the ponies http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
it is very nice to have something that i can actually have fun on now, and not be frustrated the whole time while i'm on it. i really get along with clyde (so far at least), so it's very enjoyable http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

creseida: don't worry, i don't think you guys are being mean http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.. i know he does *not* look like a 20k pony right now, trust me. i wish i could get a video of him and post it on the net so you all could actually see him move. actually.. my digital camera takes 30sec. videos.. hmm.. i may try to see if i can take one of him and post that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

bigbay: well that stinks.. maybe i'll try him on the quitt (if i buy him) for 2 months or so just to see if it does anything.. if not, i guess i'll keep the collar on him. i hate the thing, and normally wouldn't put it on him (if he was a normal weight), but he gets cribbing and then doesn't eat! he's gotta eat obviously, so the collar stays on for now http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Giddy-up
Mar. 26, 2004, 03:25 PM
Basically what she is paying $20K for at this point is for the "potential". This pony could turn out to be worth every penny plus some OR it could go the opposite directon. That's a choice she will have to make & live with. I agree with posters who say for the present condition & so forth and lack of show miles in the ACTUAL pony ring that are provable (and by what pics we have seen & testimony from the poster), that is a lot of money to pay. But on the otherhand, if this is the next wonder pony in the making, perhaps $20K in this condition is a real steal. Who knows? I would definitley make an offer though & see if the price can come down if this is the pony you want. And don't be afraid to send him back if they won't budge on pricing depending what the vet finds out. I have a feeling there isn't a line of people waiting to look at this pony if they let you try him for 3 weeks. If it's meant to be, it will happen for you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"...but now the gloves are coming off and it's going to get ghetto." Robby Johnson

pwynnnorman
Mar. 26, 2004, 04:41 PM
You haven't jumped around a real course with him yet, have you?

It's not really a mystery, whether a pony, with or without a show record, is worth x-amount. He's got autoswap, he's going to be super cute when he's got some padding, if he can clock around a colorful course on autopilot--which is easy enough to discover--has a good eye of his own and makes the distances without much riding, he's a super pony. Enough said.

As soon as that can be discovered, they'll know. The cribbing, in this day and age, isn't a big deal if he knows his job. Even if he's a little testy and needs some lunge-management, he's still worth it if he'll pack. And it already sounds like he's got his flatwork downpat. That's usually fairly highly correlated with doing decent courses, as long as he's not chicken or ruined--and those are hardly difficult traits to uncover.

I don't see anything here that will be an enduring mystery, except for his history, perhaps.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

diffuse01
Mar. 26, 2004, 07:30 PM
yup, i jumped him around a 2'6 course yesterday, he was wonderful. like i said, very auto, finds his distances without you messing with him, you just sit up there. nothing seems to phase him either, we have all kinds of colorful flowers under the jumps, and he was fine with them, didn't take a second glance http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

his attitude is wonderful, you can tell he *wants* to please you, he's just not quite sure yet of some situations, but like i said earlier, that has gotten 100% better just with me messing with him daily. he's a gentlemen, as my dad calls him. takes his treats very delicately, if you touch him to tell him to move over he moves off very easily, backs when you go into the stall with anything (including hay, he waits for you to put it down before he takes a bite. quite a diff. pony from my last one, who would launch at you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif).. just very respectful all around.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 28, 2004, 03:57 PM
well, i originally was going to take some videos of clyde under saddle today.. but he pulled a shoe yesterday, so i couldn't ride him (farrier's coming tomorrow).

then today when i went out, one of the boarder's horses (whom i love, and i'm good friends with the boarder) was laying in the field very quietly, so i decided to get out of the car to check to make sure he was ok.
i knew something was wrong as soon as i said his name and nothing happened.. sure enough, he had died http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif.. it took all i could to bring clyde & another pony in from the same field without falling over (i was a trembling mess).

clyde went out with leroy, so i was (still kind of am) worried about it being something in the field that had killed him.. but my trainer and the vet that came out said that it was most likely a heart attack or an anurism (sp?). the owners of the farm had just gotten home 30min. before i got there, and said him & clyde were playing.. so it all happened within 30min. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif.

so needless to say it was not a good day for a photo shoot for clyde.. i suppose i'll take some tomorrow or tuesday, depending on the weather.

also, could someone go into a bit more detail of a clubbed foot for me? i have a general idea, but i'd like to get a more descriptive definition of it. can it be treated with anything as far as shoeing goes, etc.? and what problems could it lead to later on in life?
my trainer is saying it's not clubbed, but that he's very straight in front. but my old trainer came out today as a second opinion on him and said it was badly clubbed.. so i'm getting mixed opinions here http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 28, 2004, 04:29 PM
also, my old trainer recommend that i put him on a higher quality protein feed and/or hay. his current feed is the horsemen's edge 10% protein pellets (he gets 1/2 of a 3qt. scoop of that twice a day), plus 1/2 scoop of grain (not sure what kind). she said that he should be on at LEAST 12% protein because of his lack of muscle tone.
she also felt his teeth and said they felt fine, no sharp edges, etc., and that i may just have a picky eater on my hands http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. but the dentist is coming tomorrow to check them out, so we'll see. someone let me know about this feed question, and about the clubbed foot in my above post pleeease.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Judi
Mar. 28, 2004, 06:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
also, my old trainer recommend that i put him on a higher quality protein feed and/or hay. his current feed is the horsemen's edge 10% protein pellets (he gets 1/2 of a 3qt. scoop of that twice a day), plus 1/2 scoop of grain (not sure what kind). she said that he should be on at LEAST 12% protein because of his lack of muscle tone.
she also felt his teeth and said they felt fine, no sharp edges, etc., and that i may just have a picky eater on my hands http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. but the dentist is coming tomorrow to check them out, so we'll see. someone let me know about this feed question, and about the clubbed foot in my above post pleeease.

-kady-
-http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01-
-http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's a good article on clubbed feet on horse.com

Club feet (http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.asp?fid=4073&dpt=5)

http://community.webshots.com/user/stewartjudi

creseida
Mar. 28, 2004, 06:42 PM
Basically, a club foot means a horse is not putting pressure evenly on his foot, and more of his weight is going on his toe and less on his heel. This concentrates a lot of pressure on one small spot of the hoof, and causes problems like abcessing. The deep digital flexor tendon tends to be contracted making it hard for that leg to properly absorb shock from the hoof hitting the ground. This is especially problematic when jumping when the force is multiplied substantially.

Since Clyde is an older horse, if he does have a club foot, it means that it really cannot be corrected significantly because his bone structure is "set". It also means that long term soundness, especially in a jumping career is not promising because the lower leg's ability to handle concussive forces has been compromised. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Your vet will be able to tell you if this is a true club foot, what grade it is (1-4) and what treatment options, if any, are available. Having a club foot is a pretty serious deformity, especially for an animal who is supposed to have a career in jumping. If he has one, the sellers need to knock a zero off his price tag before you buy him. Really. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Club Foot from TheHorse.com:

Club foot is defined by the UC Davis Book of Horses as "a flexural deformity of the coffin joint resulting in a raised heel; not to be confused with the club foot deformity of humans."

Here is another article on club feet: Club Foot (http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.asp?fid=507&dpt=6&textfield=Club+foot)

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

[This message was edited by creseida on Mar. 28, 2004 at 09:01 PM.]

diffuse01
Mar. 28, 2004, 06:52 PM
reading, reading.. luckily the vet check is this tuesday, so i won't have much longer to wait to see if the foot is clubbed, and if it is, how severe, etc..

i posted 2 pictures of his feet (i zoomed & cropped some of the standing pics i had taken) on my webshots album, but they won't show up for probably 20-30min. but you can get a better view of his feet from them. i'll take some of his actual feet tomorrow and post them. link to my album is in my sig.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

PaintedWhisper
Mar. 28, 2004, 09:29 PM
Hes very cutehttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, since youre looking at this pony as a prospect, ponies with clubbed feet will not do well in the model, and might cause some soundness issues. (We are dealing with a pony that has a club foot right now, its not very fun)

-Emily-
"Not all who wander are lost"-J.R.R Tolkein
http://community.webshots.com/user/uvgot2whisper

EqTrainer
Mar. 28, 2004, 10:21 PM
Kady, he certainly does look like his left front is clubbed http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif it is hard to determine the degree of severity. You will need your vet to take xrays to determine what degree (they will grade it, 1-4) it is at and if there is any correction possible to be made. You can't fix it, or change it at his age, but what you can do is be absolutely certain that he is being shod just right. In order to do that, you will *need* xrays and a farrier who can interpret what they mean and apply that knowledge.

If he has a mild club, (1-2) I would not be terribly worried about it if it seems that he is a pony that you will not need to school o/f extensively. If it is anything over that, I would most likely pass on him for the job you would like him to do. That foot will most likely cause him troubles down the road http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif of the more unmanageable type.

I am really sorry to be seeing this as I know you are pretty fond of him and have already had a very bad day. It is possible that he is just the victim of bad previous shoeing - we just had a horse come in that was wearing a PONY shoe on his horse foot... the front of his foot was bulging so badly I was sure he was clubbed - the farrier says no, he's just a victim of a hoof butcher. So thats good news in an odd way http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I hope you hear something equally reassuring about Clyde!

Hang in there Kady..

MTPOCKETS
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:09 AM
I jumped into this discussion late but just thought I'd add my 2 cents. What is Cindy's last name? You can PT me if you want. If it is the Cindy I know that is friends with the people at Oakland Heights then she is very reputable as are the people at Oakland Heights. THey always have a lot of high quality animals that a lot of us would have in a barn and blanketed every day, but they almost everything live out on a couple hundred acres at the base of a mountain. THe horeses/ponies are provided with round bales butnot usually grained. THey live a bit as wild horses do. THey get skinny in the winter and really fatten up on the grass in the summer.

I prefer my horses fat and shiny at all times but they are very honest in their dealings and great people to work with. They also usually have paperwork of some sort o the horses they have for sale and if he did come from their field then they may be able to help you clarify his show record.

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:28 AM
paintedw: thanks http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. i'm not planning on entering him in any model classes (maybe one or 2 locally, just for fun), so that won't be a problem. i'm just planning on doing 2'6-2'9 with him in the shows.

eqtrainer: thankfully his vet check is tomorrow, so i'll have a ton of questions answered after that. i'll make sure to get the vet to take good xrays of all of his feet, and i'll get copies of them to show to my farrier (if we buy him).
your poor horse.. it's amazing what some farriers can do http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

levremont
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:29 AM
Are you talking about a place near Gordonsville? If so I totally aggree...some VERY nice horses have come out of there.

visit us at www.levremont.com (http://www.levremont.com)

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:36 AM
i have no clue where it's at http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

SoNotaDQ
Mar. 29, 2004, 06:01 AM
I think Clyde is a very cute and sweet looking pony. From the photos I have seen, I just can't *see* the 20k. For 20k I would expect a show record and a permanent card. Will they take him back if he goes to a recognized show and he doesn't stick well?

I know how easy it is to get attached to an animal. A pony/horse is worth what someone will pay for it(you) but do you really want your parents to end up throwing 20k away? If his foot is clubby and he ends up with soundness issues you are then the owner of a pony not worth very much(2k or less)

Horse are *always* a gamble. I have seen terribly conformed ones never take a lame step and ones pass vet checks with flying colors who are never sound.

I think he is pretty overpriced for something who is unproven(he has no show record, just someone says he is) People in the horse business are notorious for horse sales. I have watched it in my area and seen things that just grays my hair. You must always remember even the nicest trainers must put food on their table. You sure don't make money off of boarding horses.

He may end up being a great investment. He may end up being a tax writeoff. There is no telling. Just don't go in with your heart over your common sense. I know you are just a child and I know what my thoughts would have been when I was a teenager.

I had a pony years ago I bought for $400 from the horse trader. She was the fanciest pony in the area. She *always* *always* *always* won the hack. No horse or pony could beat her on the flat. If her rider would leave her alone, nothing could beat her over fences. If you just pointed her, she went. Gorgeous pony. I sold her for $2500. That is with 2 zeros, not 3.

There are PLENTY of ponies out there that are fancy, not starved and not clubbed footed. And a whole lot less than 20k. You may just have to go out of N. VA to find them.

Kryswyn
Mar. 29, 2004, 06:29 AM
Many good posts on this thread. I know and have dealt with the people at Oakland Heights and have found them honest, and yes, you can find some good useful ponies/horses there. That being said, no one is going to confuse Oakland Heights with a fancy sales barn and therefore, my experience is that the horses/ponies that end up there have *something* that prevents the sellers from sending them to say... Stacey Shaeffer for sale, especially a *nice* pony with a record.

I also am having a hard time imagining Oakland Heights buying the pony from the broker for anything more than $5000. They just don't *do that* in my experience. They make their money by buying very cheap and selling very dear, but mostly buy NOT buying, just acting as agents. It's far more likely in MO that they either ARE the broker, or they've bought the pony for a small fraction of the price you were quoted. They may have priced the pony at X but when you add several layers of commisions it's easy to get up to $20K. BUT you made IMHO a small booboo telling someone what your upper limit was. You have lots of bargaining power w/ what you've found (club foot) and what you didn't find (show record, permanent card) to offer A LOT LESS.

My only experience w/ club foot was in a hind leg of a large pony and that was never graded, but it could be kept *mostly* normal w/ trimming every 5-6 weeks rather than 8. It was never a soundness issue, but it was a hind not a front. Longterm jumping career for a front clubfooted pony is not high IMHO.

Another issue is his resale value if you need to sell him to get your next horse. You say you'll only be doing the children's but especially since he looks like he'd be a natural to do the larges, people will ask why he *doesn't* do them. So his resale price is going to stay around $15K even if you only keep him for a couple of years.

Please reread all the "How much commission" threads for great advice to make sure your parents don't spend more than they need to just on commissions when they could spend it on more *pony*.

Good luck! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

[This message was edited by Kryswyn on Mar. 29, 2004 at 08:37 AM.]

BelladonnaLily
Mar. 29, 2004, 08:20 AM
Kryswyn...I grew up riding at Oakland Heights and agree with everything you said. I was afraid to say it because I have NOTHING bad to say about them (I have great memories there)...but they are basically traders. Very nice and honest people but rarely do they really know what they have standing out there in the field. Many are bought from sales, or bought cheaply because there "is" a catch. I'm not saying that many are not great horses...but I'd hesitate to pay 20K for anything from them. Not because they're dishonest...but just because that's not the type of horses they usually have. JMHO.

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 04:20 PM
i'll just summarize the replies lol..

like i said, trust me, *I* don't see him as a 20k pony right now either http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif. i would expect the same things you mentioned as well for his price, which is why we are definately going to offer something much lower, and go from there. but as long as the vet check goes well, we are going to buy him, 20k or 5k.. we've all fallen in love with his spirit, and willingness to do everything that's put in front of him http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

we had his teeth floated & sheath cleaned today.. boy does he feel better! jayme (the dentist) said his teeth were pretty sharp, but that he had the prettiest set of teeth she had seen for a long time. she estimated his age to be 7 going on 8, so they were right when they said 7 to us.
a vet came with jayme to sedate him (for the sheath cleaning) and we had her check his foot. she said that yes, it is clubbed, but is *very* mild, and she said he shouldn't have any problems later on with it, as long as we don't use a crappy farrier (which we don't, i love my farrier http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif). so that's good news, and we'll get a second opinion on that tomorrow during the actual vet check.

i won't just be doing the children's with him, we actually don't have that class around here in our local shows. i'll be starting with probably specials @ 2'3", then moving up from there to eventually pony hunter @ 2'9". which the vet that checked him out today said would be fine for him.

anyway, that being said, i will post tomorrow after the vet check and give and update as to what the vet thinks of him, etc. then my parents have some business to do with my trainer as far as his price goes.. then my big decision will come http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Giddy-up
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:19 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is what are you going to be doing with your new pony? I don't know pony prices, but to me $20K sounds like a lot for a large pony that hasn't really shown, you only plan on showing locally at 2'6", 2'9" tops, and is a possible "hard" re-sale. I would think that for $20K, he would be going around the 3' course already (not showing if they are marketing him as green eligible, but definitely schooling the height), but maybe I just expect too much for too little. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

"...but now the gloves are coming off and it's going to get ghetto." Robby Johnson

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 05:39 PM
i'm planning on doing mostly local shows, but some of the 'smaller' a shows, like lexington, deep run, etc.
he can easily go around a 3 foot course, he did one when we went to try him out http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.
and i'm not planning on selling him, or whatever i get.. most likely, unless some freak circumstance forces me to sell, they'll be with me forever. we're currently looking for about 100+ acres in the lexington area for my parents to retire on, and in the future, me to run a barn there.. soo they'll have plenty of space to run around and retire with me http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Fiction
Mar. 29, 2004, 06:04 PM
I think he's adorable. I'm from NJ, where ponies that can do even just the Children's (2ft for smalls/mediums, 2'6 for larges) can go for HUGE amounts of money. I know of a pony who has won everything around here that went for 20k as a 13 year old. But then I've seen totally green, but fancy, ponies go for the same.

From the pictures, I'd say I'd pay between 10-20k. IF you have the money available, and you're willing to put forth the effort on a pony like this one, I'd say go for it. Definately try to bargain down the price, it never hurts, but I think he sounds like a nice pony.

As far as the club foot goes, it can be manageable. I tried 1 equitation horse that had years and years of mileage in the big eq and junior hunters at the biggest shows in the country. He was about 12, and had a club front foot. Nice horse, but he wasn't 100% sound, and it was known that this horse shows on medication.
Then I tried another horse, who we ended up buying. He was just 9 when we bought him, and he used to event, and quite successfully. He also, has a club left front, it looks very similar to Clyde's. Buying a horse with a club foot is like a shot in the dark. We got lucky. Since we've had him, we've not had any problems with that foot. Our farriers have shod him so well that it even looks better now. He shows in the 3'6 consistantly throughout the year, and the foot doesn't seem to bother him. Yes, it looks a little funny, but not that many people have noticed.

Unless you plan to show this pony competetively in the Regular or Green Pony Hunter divisions, it shouldn't be a problem. If you're looking to do the Children's, they don't pin that division on conformation, so if the pony moves and jumps well, you'll be fine.

-----
This is not a true story
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BybeeGirl
Mar. 29, 2004, 06:05 PM
Re: Oakland Heights
We have a phrase around here for those that are weary from horse shopping because they have tried sooooo many, and still haven't found something. It's "Give Sally a call. If she doesn't have it, she'll find it."
For what it's worth, since it's been mentioned so many times now, here is the website for Oakland Heights:
http://www.oaklandheights.ova.net
It's definitely a place where no one puts on airs. If I had to name all of the people who've found horses there-I'd be up a long time doing so. I think this quote from their website sums it all up around here:
"If you live here and know a little about horses, you know the Lambs and they probably know you."
So, long story short they may be worth a try for you. Good luck.

http://www.geocities.com/kimrmayo

hoopoe
Mar. 29, 2004, 06:40 PM
One of the main indications for Quitt is cribbing and wood chewing.

It is certainly worth a try.

SoNotADQ brings up a good point. The measurement card.

You said he is 14.1 1/2. Did you measure him or is that what the sellers are saying.

That is terribly close to measuring out. If he was measured by you , in his current condition, I would worry about him filling out size as he gains condition.

If he has permanent cards, time for someone to produce copies of the USEF and measurement cards.

Otherwise he is worth only what someone will pay for him, and at that a gamble.

I think Lil' Clyde is the Perfect name. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

_\\]
-- * &gt; hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 07:14 PM
i just emailed sally @ oakland heights, maybe even if she didn't have him, she may know of him.
but actually my old trainer (whom i still talk to) called her the other day to see if she had him, or knew of him, and she just called her back today and left a message. so they're playing phone tag right now, hopefully my old trainer can get in touch with her soon.

if i do buy him, i'm def. going to try quitt for a month or 2.. it's worth a shot.

as for measuring, i just measured him today, and he's just a bit over 14.1hh. trust me, we've got every single question imaginable written down to ask cindy & my trainer.. including perm. card, etc.. we've got it covered http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.. i'll update everyone tomorrow after the check!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Carol Ames
Mar. 29, 2004, 07:19 PM
I, too, loveth name "Clyde" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, in fact,thought he might be some kind of clyde crossbred http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, until I read your note. The http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gifworming, and, the feed, and hay will make a huge diffperence, I like the purina "comlete"feeds, such,as Equine Jr, Sr., etc., You might call one of the feed conanies,KER, or Purina, and see what they recommend; I think there is a need for a feed feed designed specifically for horses in his

condition. i would use a curry mitt, on him 45minutes/day, that will bring up a shine, as well as increase ciirculation, and stimulate

muscles; a week of that routine, and,you should see a difference; adding oil to his feed also helps, have you tried clovite? I wouldlove to see him a month from now, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

[This message was edited by carol Ames on Mar. 29, 2004 at 09:53 PM.]

Carol Ames
Mar. 29, 2004, 07:36 PM
OK, on to clubbed feet; I've known someverygood jumpers with aclubbed foot in front, however http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, overtime, a clubbed foot will wear spurs in the fetlock joint, possibly even chips breaking off :sadsmileu; it woeld beworth doing xrays of the ankles; maybe you will find something to use as a bargaining chip in negotiating the price. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

diffuse01
Mar. 29, 2004, 07:40 PM
thanks carol http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.. seems like everyone but my family, trainer and i don't like clyde, but everyone else does, go figure http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

anyway, thanks for the feed suggestions, i'm going to talk to the vet tomorrow about all of that as well http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.
the curry comb (actually it's one of these (http://www.doversaddlery.com/cart1.asp?CatalogNumber=2Z-1069)) has become my best friend lol.. my arms are sore from currying & using the shedding blade so much.. i swear the hair is endless!
but his coat looks TONS better after all of the grooming, plus the bath i gave him last thursday.

i asked about clubbed feet because alot of people on here were saying that from the pics i posted it looked like his left front was clubbed, which it is, but it's very mild (vet said that today). i was trying to get some more info. on them, etc.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Carol Ames
Mar. 29, 2004, 07:45 PM
I think you've gotten excellent advice here http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif, especially about the price, and,resale value; Don't let a kind heart, feeling sorry for him http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif, over ride your brain,and,pocket book http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

breeder of Mercury!

remember to enjoy the moment, and take a momento enjoy!, and give thanks for thesewonderful horses in our lives.

Kryswyn
Mar. 29, 2004, 09:57 PM
Diffuse, I'm not sure if I read your post right http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I think everybody here LOVES Clyde (just for less money http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Personally, he's the kind of pony I'd have bought in a heartbeat when I was doing the pony resale thing (bay w/ blaze & 4 chromed legs is my fave too! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). But because I *could* bring them on, I never paid more than $3500 for anything. In fact the last bay w/ those markings I bought (for $3500) I resold just a year later for $5000, to trainers who sold him 2 months later for $10K to a family that campaigned him to a national title and sold him at the end of that year for $40K. Two years ago he was sold to a permanent home for $5K at the age of 18. So you can see how prices can inflate very quickly and drop off dramatically with age and pounding.

I think it's wonderful you'll be able to have him live with you forever, but... if you out grow him (in either size or ability) in a couple of years, that's a 20 year retirement you're looking at and you know equines do better physically if they're kept in work. So I'd still consider moving him on when you out grow him.

We're waiting with baited breath for the final results!

~Kryswyn~
"Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"

haybrook
Mar. 30, 2004, 07:19 AM
diffuse01, I would like to compliment you on your nice manners and cordial replys to the comments posters have made. You asked for advice and comments (a risky thing) and have accepted all with a good attitude. Way to go.

EqTrainer
Mar. 30, 2004, 07:50 AM
Kady, I hope you don't think that we don't like him http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I certainly DO like him, just have looked at him the same way I would look at any pony I were asked to give my opinion on. Every horse has his plus's and minus's.

I too would like to compliment you on the way you have handled yourself - both regarding this pony and the one you sold. You have got it together http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

diffuse01
Mar. 30, 2004, 08:41 AM
i must've written something in one of my posts that made it sound like i thought you guys didn't like him.. i didn't mean that at all http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.. must've just worded something wrong http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

kryswyn: it's amazing how prices can go up, then come down dramatically with horses.. i've seen ponies sold here for $2500 doing everything (changes, courses, etc.), then do a couple of *local* shows and go for $15k the next year. i don't think i'll outgrow him in size anytime soon (i'm almost 17, and 5'0, i still ride smalls/mediums http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif haha), but your right about the ability part (i sold my first pony due to that.. i still ride him sometimes today and fit him perfectly!).
he's definately not a pony i'll let waste away in a field somewhere at the age of 15 (as long as nothing's wrong with him). i have a 2yr. old niece that is in LOVE with horses already (all she talks about is 'aunt kady has woo-woos!', don't ask where she got 'woo-woo' out of 'horse' http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif). so we're hoping she decides that she wants to ride, and then if/when i do grow out of clyde, he'll be hers http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

thanks for your comments on how i'm handling myself, i try http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif. but it's not like any of you have been rude, i asked for opinions, i got opinions, which is what i wanted. now because of that i have an even bigger list of questions for the vet (this poor vet.. it's going to be like an interrogation). thanks for that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

anyway, i'm off to the barn to meet the vet @ 12.. i'll post when i get home!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

foursocks
Mar. 30, 2004, 09:38 AM
I hope things went well with the vet- you've got us all hooked! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil

diffuse01
Mar. 30, 2004, 04:20 PM
ook.. back from the vet check.

all went well, she really liked him, and he behaved very nicely. she rated his body condition as a 3 1/2 on the 10pt. scale.. poor baby http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif.

she said that his *right* front was more clubbed than the left actually. but she was very surprised when we lunged/rode him when he moved/jumped so well. she expected him to paddle pretty badly, but said he showed no signs of it.

after i rode him, we did the flexions. his back legs tested negative. both of his upper fronts were negative also. but his lower fronts tested positive http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.

the left was worse than the right. the right was pretty minor, just a little bit of head bobbing. left was pretty bad, but as the vet said, she's seen them where they were almost falling over, he was just off.
i'm not quite sure yet how i feel about flexions.. i know there's some people that don't agree with them, and some that do.. i'm kind of on the fence. i don't know the exact definition of what they do, etc., but i just wonder.. when is a horse going to hold its leg up for a min. then trot off?
so yes, it's not good that he tested positive at all.. but that was his only fault during the whole check. she said other than that he was perfectly sound.

now comes the height issue. it seems like all of the measuring sticks are hiding from us.. my trainer's lost 3 in less than a year. another barn's is falling apart, and the tack shops only have the tape ones in stock http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif!
so we got a tape one, and my dad measured it up to a piece of wood he found, then attached another piece to the wood so it was a right angle (my dad owns his own business that supplies nails, etc. to homebuilders, so he's pretty handy http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif).

we attempted to get the 'stick' near him, but he stood up a good 3in. with his head as high as possible.. so we knew it wasn't going to be a very good measurement. so we're planning on giving him some ace to calm him down, and getting a certified steward to come measure him this week.. pray that he's 14.2 or under.

so basically, the positive lower front flexions, and the height issue are the only things holding us back from buying him at this point. once we get him measured, as long as he is under 14.2hh, we're getting the x-rays on all 4 legs done. then as long as there's nothing major there, we'll buy him.

at this point, my dad's letting my trainer contact cindy (who found clyde), and talk to her about the things that came up today.. then we'll talk price.

so hopefully he'll measure at 14.2 or under, and his x-rays come back clear!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

spurzi
Mar. 30, 2004, 04:55 PM
Hi Diffuse, I have been reading your story and thought I would put my thoughts in on the clubbed hoof issue. (Since I owned a h/j TB that had a left-front clubbed hoof I speak from experience)
He was 5 when I got him, the best mover, incredible actually. The best we could do for him was leave the hoof the way it was. If you try to make it look normal you are altering the whole assembly so-to-speak. Anyhow as he got jumping after a year of flatting he was great. But....as things kept going and mind you were not talking much over 3'3 he started going off and then bowed. Of course all the lameness occurs in the normal front leg since this leg has to compensate for the abnormalty. If he had been constantly worked slowly and not much jumping he'd probably stay sound, but my concern is jumping your pony who has not been in work recently. If you want him to stay sound....go real slow and not much jumping till he's real fit.
Sorry if I have Spelling errors, I'm trying to rush and make a long story short. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I do think he is a lovely pony...but my first thought from experience is....He is for sale in this shady situation because he will not stay sound, he should pass a vet easily if he has not been in work
Just my opinion....I just would be real careful regardless of how much you can get him for. It would be sad to invest time & money and not be able to ride him.
Best Wishes & good luck http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

diffuse01
Mar. 30, 2004, 06:04 PM
hopefully, if we buy clyde, he won't end up unsound for a looong time (hopefully never). my trainer has had many horses/ponies with clubbed feet, and they've always been fine (she has one that's 20+ now, clubbed in the front and paddles horribly when she moves.. never had a lame step in her life, depends on the horse i guess).

but i will definately be bringing him back into work slowly. right now i'm only doing 30min. at the most, mostly w/t/c, with like 2 jumps at the end.. so we're going very slowly.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 30, 2004, 07:06 PM
oh yes.. he did have check ligament surgery on his right front (the one that wasn't near as bad during the flexions). she said it's probably helped him alot as far as the club foot is concerned, etc.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

wesierobb
Mar. 30, 2004, 10:09 PM
Glad the vetcheck went pretty well. Just wanted to give you a little insight as a steward into the measurement thing....

No steward can do a "real" measurement except at a show where the pony is entered to compete. And the pony cannot be aced to be measured.
Also, yes a pony can be as much as an inch bigger/smaller at the time of measurement depending on how relaxed he is or isn't.

So, a person (steward or not) can put a stick on him with him aced, but that in no way can be construed as anything more than an IDEA of what he would officially measure. If he measures anywhere close to 14.2 with the ace, I would be nervous...

Just didn't want you to get any bad information and make a decision without the facts.

Good luck.

http://www.pzonearth.com

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:01 AM
oh yes, we know they can't do a 'real' measurement on him except for at a show.

i've heard differently on the if they can be aced thing.. some people are saying yes, others are saying no. so we are going to ace him to see if he's close, if he is *very* close.. we'll see http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Lord Helpus
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
oh yes, we know they can't do a 'real' measurement on him except for at a show.

i've heard differently on the if they can be aced thing.. some people are saying yes, others are saying no. so we are going to ace him to see if he's close, if he is *very* close.. we'll see http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, a horse/pony cannot be aced. Because he MUST be measured at a show at which he is competing. And a horse cannot compete if there is ace in his system.

So, "ace for measurement" is not the real issue. The real issue is violating the drug rules. Anyone who tells you that they have had an aced pony or horse measured has been violating drug rules just like all of those people who are now suspended.

I sure would not take their word for anything having to do with drugs.

PS: The reason that a pony must be measured at a show at which it is competing is that people were cutting feet down so far to measure into a certain division that the pony was crippled. So the AHSA made a rule that the pony had to be sound enough to show, and to actually compete, in order to be measured.

PPS: There is always some confusion about the "leeway" rule. Some people think that the USEF gives you a 1/2" leeway in measuring, so that a pony who measures 14.2 1/2 can get a card.

That is not true. A pony must measure as a pony. The leeway rule was instituted because, if someone protests your pony and pays for a re-measurement at a show, your pony might have different shoes or his feet might be a little longer, so if he measures slightly over what his card says, he will not measure out of the division.

I am not saying that you are confused about that rule, but many people are and I wanted to clarify it.

As an ex-steward (and other stewards who post here, including Wesierobb who justgave you good information, have the same experience) I have measured a lot of ponies and horses. I have never not been able to measure one if I took my time and had helpers put their hand over the pony's eye on the side where the stick is. If this pony is so scared of a stick that it is impossible to get him measured, I would worry about past treatment and how it might come back to haunt you. [BTW, Did your vet pull blood for a drug screen? Remember that some drugs (Like fluphenozine which was the cause for many recent suspensions) stay in their systems for up to a month. DO NOT BUY any horse without having his blood tested!!]

Actually, it is even better if the pony swells up at home, because he might just do the same at the show where you are measuring him. You need to know the worst case scenario.

Your dad's "stick" would not have given you a reliable measurement anyway since it did not have a bubble on the crosspiece. Measurements can change by an inch if the stick is tipped forward or back. The only correct way to measure a pony is with a stick with a bubble to make sure it is being held absolutely level.

For what its worth, I agree with the posters who are suspicious about why a nice $20000 pony would end up at a dealers in such poor shape. I know what you have been told, but I would sure take this with a whole pile of salt.

Whatever you end up paying for whatever pony you end up getting, make SURE that your dad writes the check directly to the seller, and not to any intermediate agent. The sales contract should clearly state the price, make clear which party is to pay which commissions (to their own agent or to an intermediate person who found the pony, etc.).

Also put in a clause that says that "the seller warrants that he/she is the owner of said pony and that he/she owns the pony outright (has clear title) and that no liens are attached or debts owed on the pony. If litigation becomes necessary to establish ownership of the pony then the seller is liable for all legal costs and fees incurred in establishing title."

If the sellers are honest people as the posters who know them say they are, then they will have trouble signing a contract that does not represent the truth. That is your best assurance that the deal is a clean one. And you, as buyer, are the party in a position to make sure the deal is clean.

And have the sales contract notarized by both the buyer and the seller.

If you are told that the seller is not available to sign the sales contract -- RUN, do not walk, away from the deal.

The world of "horse trading" is, sad to say, filled with unscrupulous people. You are the only person who will watch out for your best interests. Please make sure your parents see this post. They may not truly understand the perils involved in horse sales, and there are many.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Oh yeah, I'll bet you're fat and can't ride!" --- Erin, Chief Cathearder. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DOME
Mar. 31, 2004, 08:24 AM
Diffuse-

Please be careful. One of my favorite trainers I ever had, Shirley Fox, always said "Never make excuses for a horse or pony for sale."

While some people may disagree with this (especially with all the drugs/meds/etc going on on the circuit today), it is something I always remember and repeat to myself when looking at a horse or pony.

Clyde is adorable. He is really cute to look at( I am a sucker for 4 socks, I have a pony for sale that has them now), seems to move well, and apparently jumps well too (although after the vet check you said you only jumped two fences, and a few posts before you said you jumped around a 2'6" course (??)), so those are two extremely important factors, and PROS. In the stall, you say he is skittish, and that he cribs. Stalls manners, ESPECIALLY for a kids pony are very important. And, I have known some people that won't touch a cribber- it is annoying, costly, and hinders the weight gaining process- not something you want with Clyde!

The vet check, and him not passing the flex tests are something I don't even want to get into. There are tons of horses that don't pass the vet and go on to have VERY sucessful and long show careers. So, ironically enough, I would say that the results of the vet check would be the least of my worries. However, you need to seriously sit down and think about what it is you are going to do with this pony: will the fact that he didn't pass the flex test effect what you plan on doing with him? Will he clubbed feet be an issue?

Bottom line from me: $20,000? NO WAY. He is is horrible condition (3.5 on a 10 scale according to the vet), has two clubbed feet(regardless of their individual sevverity), no known show record, cribs, and is skittish in the stall. He sounds like something that you could have as a project pony yes: we hear a lot about project horses and ponies on this board, and we hold owners hands through thick and thin, living vicariously through their progess because as horse people, that is something we thrive onhttp://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif- but project ponies in very poor shape with no known breeding do not go for 20k, they go for under 5k (beleive me, I've found them and made them up). And I have also had the 20k project ponies: ponies that are well bred, and have shown on the line at Devon, with MINIMUM flatwork go for 20k- but they are gorgeous to look at, move phenomenal, and carry GREAT breeding. They are destined for the show ring. You could easily have him for a few months, fatten him up and condition him, put him in a few shows, and then MAYBE his price could be around 20k, but he still doesn't pass the vet!

Please do not take this the wrong way, but I am honestly watching out for you and your family. There are a lot of people in this horse business that have absolutely no qualms putting a completely ludicrous price on a pony, and don't even have to cross their fingers that an ignorant buyer will come around, and pay that outrageous price. In no way am I saying that you are an ignorant buyer- absolutely not. You seems to know some stuff, but I think you are making EXCUSES for Clyde. And, according to my first sentence of my post, this is the number one no-no http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

DOME
"It's a passion and an obsession...100% is not enough."
"Give it hell till the end, cause once you quit you can't get it back again."

Jessi P
Mar. 31, 2004, 09:35 AM
Just want to add my $0.02 in here, I am new to the board but have done this all my life for a living. One thing to take into consideration.. if the fact that being tractable, manageable and rideable in general is a big plus for you as stated in a previous post (due to one pony you had being unrideable or difficult to ride for you?) consider the fact that even though he behaves well today and butter wont melt in his mouth, remember he is (according to your vet) a 3.5 on a scale of 1-10. What will his temperament be like when he is 8+ condition wise? Will he still be the perfectly mannered gentleman? Also... from the looks of him and from what you have said, he hasnt been ridden for some time. 1) he could be well mannered NOW because he is unfit and (was) underfed and is too tired and run-down to be a pain in the butt. This might change as he gets fitter and healthier. Kinda the same as above... but you have A) poor health (nutrition, bloodcount and worms) and B) poor conditioning (muscling up), separate but similar issues. Also- 2) If he is a tad bit off now (BELIEVE in flexion tests, there is no doubting a horse who flinches when flexed has some issues in that area) what will he be like when he has been ridden for a few months, been in training and begins show season campaigning? It has been my experience that horses & ponies are USUALLY at their soundest after being idle (standing in a field, given time off from riding, etc.) for a few months. The exceptions to this are usually older chronically sore horses (such as older adults in the ahem 30+ range like myself) who go through a sore stage when they return to training until they re-develop muscle, first going through the muscle sorenes stage and secondly allowing their legs and therefore joints to move efficiently and correctly. Kinda like an adult who starts jogging again after taking the winter off... first day or two is great, then a week or so of being sore (and thinking WHY DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF???) then is good to go again in short order.

Now that I have said the negatives, I think he is a very cute pony with potential, looks a bit upright in the pasterns which will shorten his stride, keep that in mind. I would give perhaps $5-8k for him now. Remember.. the seller is making out like a thief because even if you dont buy him you are making him saleable for another buyer by feeding and taking care of him as you are donig very well (teeth, farrier, vet check etc) and just riding and time spent with him in general. You can put 6 months of time and effort into him and have a 20k pony, you might not. Or you could pay say 10k for him and put the same amount of time and money into him and have the same value down the line. It is your preference and your parents' pocketbook, but looking at the pics you posted of what you want in a fancy pony, is he fancy enough? Remember you really cant determine what he will look like down the road at this point. On a side note, if your parents are planning to buy a facility in Lexington and you will be teaching and running a stable there, he will be good for riding lessons or a lease after you outgrow him, so he neednt be just a pasture ornament, which is always a plus!

Judi
Mar. 31, 2004, 09:47 AM
Hey diffuse... I really agree with DOME... This pony has many, many issues that should bring down the price. If you really want this guy I think your dad should negotiate majorly. When I bought my boy he had a light suspensory injury the year before and trotted ever so slightly short going to the left in a very tight circle. That brought the price down $5K because I had the vet check in hand. By the way... he's perfectly sound that direction now..... But my point is... your Dad can go to the buyer and say... he this pony has this... and this.. and this... so we'll give you 10K for him. I'm thinking that you might just get a deal if they don't think they'll find another buyer who's willing to put in the work on a pony with a clubbed foot (which I think is your BIGGEST bargaining chip)

Also... always think about what you can resell the pony for... even made... The conditioning is no big deal he'll look great with your care in no time... but you can't change that clubbed foot... and you really have to ask yourself if someone else will want to pay 20K for a pony with that kind of "risky" confirmation flaw. (I only say risky because as DOME mentioned... you have to be careful of jumping a club foot too much because of the strain on the tendon) I believe it's very easily managed by someone who loves their horse... but when you resell... people don't want to buy a horse with a pre-established issue.

Soooo good luck with your purchase... hopefully you can use the vet info to get yourself a good deal on a diamond in the rough.

http://community.webshots.com/user/stewartjudi

Madison
Mar. 31, 2004, 10:38 AM
Please, please, please bargain hard with these people. They are going to feel bolstered by the fact that you obviously already loff him. I think he is a real cutie and deserves someone to love him the way you seem to and to help him reach his potential. But, I just can't believe there isn't still some "fat" in that $20k price tag.

Some of your posts make it sound like you guys have already conceded defeat and really believe that $20k is as low as they will go. I would be very surprised if that was the case. You need to hit them with all the negatives (even if you have decided they are things you can live with, they don't need to know that yet) to drive the price down so that you can use the extra money you save to take care of and buy things for Clyde http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, I'd be pointing out the surgery, the club foot, the flexions, the lack of conditioning, the lack of the proof of a show record, etc . . . til the price came down. And be ready to walk even if you would run right back the next day - to find out what their real bottom line is. If your trainer doesn't feel comfortable driving a hard bargain with her friend, then your dad should negotiate.

Good luck - I hope it all works out for the best http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

SoNotaDQ
Mar. 31, 2004, 11:39 AM
You do have alot of bargaining power. ALOT. He is in poor condition,he crib, he has clubbed feet, he did NOT pass the vet, has no show record and no permanent card.

Send your dad in to bargain like you would on a used car. Like he would on a house he was buying to resell, that had obvious structural problems and needed fixing.

He is at *most* worth half what they are selling him for *if* he really moves and jumps fancy. I don't see it, especially not with the recent vet report.

If you just have to have him. I would walk in with a good contract and 10k and leave it at that. (actually, I wouldn't offer 10k, but he seems worth it to you) There will not be people lining up to buy a pony described like Clyde.

I would also not buy him without front leg/feet x-rays. If I was spending 20k I wouldn't buy him without hock x rays too. The blood work is a good idea too.

Can you get your Mom and Dad to look at this thread?? I hate to see parents duped by trainers/horse traders. This is a big investment, Even if the money isn't a big deal to your family.

Vandy
Mar. 31, 2004, 11:48 AM
I agree with all of the posters suggesting some hard bargaining. Even if you are sure this is the right pony for you at 20K, why not first try and get the price down, as it seems clear 20K is a bit unrealistic in terms of market standards for a pony with his problems/history?

I would even go so far as to send the pony back if they don't accept a much lower offer. This is not a $500 bargain that someone else will snap up the moment he is returned to the sale barn. My guess is that even if they take the pony back initally, they will be calling you back within a week to accept your offer. Just my 2 cents - good luck!

Egioja
Mar. 31, 2004, 12:11 PM
I've been follwoing this thread for a while now, and was waiting for vet check results before I posted anything.
I agree with what most everyone here has said. He may have a great temprament, and may move, jump, ride like exactly what you want-but that is what he is like NOW, not what he will be like in great condition. Let alone the club feet and flexion test issues.
Way to many things about the story have not lined up-at first you were told that he showed a lot, then once you fell in love with him, you found out he never showed.
20k is WAY to much for this pony-thin, no muscle, unsound does NOT equal 20k. It sounds ot me as if you trainer and cindy will be making a huge profit off this-I would not pay more then 2k for him-regardless of how nice he moves. It is also way to much of a conincidence that this pony is right at your price limit.
My suggestion is to write down EVERYthing you know about this pony, good an bad-make no excuses or explaintions. Then sit back with an open mind and look at what you are dealing with-or, show it to a differnt trainer and get their opinon (one not invloved in the deal).
Have you thought about looking around at other ponys in your price range? Or for that matter any that your trainer has not found for you (aka, you found them on your own)?
Really sit down and think about this-something smells fishy.

http://groups.msn.com/BAENAddicts/lizsherd.msnw?albumlist=2
"Don't view it as a problem, see it as an oppurtunity for a solution."

pwynnnorman
Mar. 31, 2004, 12:13 PM
Given the vetting, I now have to agree with the majority (this has been quite interesting!): not 20K now.

But does anyone other than I think that that check ligament surgery MIGHT just be an indication that this pony does indeed have a decent past? I'd say it almost guarentees that he has done quite a bit of showing and probably quite successfully: people don't correct leg problems on cheap ponies--at least it's pretty rare.

(Even his iffy flexion tests make me think that he's got some miles on him--and given the wear and tear, plus the schooling he has, I'd be willing to bet that that pony knows his stuff and got a lot of use because of that.)

Y'know, this whole thing reminds me of a pony I ran into at someone else's barn: she is a western person, but does some wheeling and dealing. She bought a bright bay mare (@14.1h) with four whites for like $500 at some auction and discovered, once I told her to put a standing martingale on it, that it had its changes and popped around anything like a machine.

BUT if you touched its mouth the wrong way at the wrong time, it would stop dead or rear and back into things.

She had high hopes for it, but it never came around and she ended up selling it at Eylers for about $700. Some of these ponies have sad histories. I hope this one isn't one of the "used up" ones that kept sliding downhill until he arrived in his current state.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

PonyPlay
Mar. 31, 2004, 01:50 PM
Diffuse, why don't you have your Dad look at some of these posts if he is the one who is going to negotiate with the seller,especially some of the responses you have gotten since Clyde's vet-check. It might help your dad to get some of the terminology down, and know what kind of attitude to take when talking to the seller. He will be in more of a position to bargain if he can name all the ponies negitive traits himself, instead of saying "my daughter said that the vet said..." Also if he is not a horsey person he might think he is getting a good deal when he is not. You have gotten such great advice from so many experienced people I think you should utilize it in every way you can.

Me:"...but you said stop after the last fence"
Trainer:" NO, I said TROT after the last fence"

Oxerbound
Mar. 31, 2004, 02:30 PM
Chiming in here - ditto to what everyone else says.

Just something to think about though: It took me a YEAR of searching to find my last horse, and I looked at many many many of them. I think I had like 6 of them vetted (which gets pretty darn expensive! Gah!). I remember 3 of them fairly clearly....

One was a 5 y/o who was fancy as can be with a great jump and attitude, but his flexion tests weren't so happy. Two vets looked at him and one said "probably won't be a problem," the other said "probably won't cause issues, but if he's like this at 5, what's he going to be like at 8?" I decided to keep looking. (After about 6 months of searching).

The next was a 4 y/o who I fell in love with. I think I had him on trial and everything. I just LOVED this horse. Fancy, good jumper, SWEET, a fantastic learner, everything I had ever wanted in a horse. I was so thrilled. My dad had the check alredy written out and we just were waiting for the vet to give us the thumbs up... Sadly, his vet check didn't go well. My vet, several trainers, my family, everyone who saw him LOVED this horse, but the vet couldn't in good conscience recommend him for jumping, as he would surely develop problems within the next few years. I cried for a week when I had to say no, but I went back to looking again, after 9 months.

The last horse was 7 and had a good number of competitions under his belt. Flawless jumping style, fancier than the other two put together, and WAY out of my price range (he was like $40k. The other two were $10k!) The owner liked us as a match so much that she bargained down to $16k for him, with absolutely no strings attached. He was beautiful and perfect, and I had him for two years without a problem until I had to sell him to go to school. Our asking price was $35k, but we ended up letting him go for $12k because he had developed a small bone spur in the hock, which didn't hinder him at all but my poor dad, who didn't know much about horses, thought that it was the end of the world and accepted their offer (I was out of town).

I don't know if there's a moral here or not, but it seemed appropriate to share this. When I first saw Clyde, I thought he was ADORABLE, but would only have offered $3500 on him. If he moves and jumps like you say, and I saw that, my top price would go up to $8k, and not a penny more. After vet check, it would go down to about $6500. Since I'm in MN and you're in N. VA, you can add a couple grand to that total, which leaves you at around $8500-$10,000. If I were doing the deal and in your shoes, I'd offer $7500 with the vet check in hand and everything against him (condition, show record etc) in paper form, and bargain up to no more than $10,000.

But that's just me. I don't have trouble offering a price like that in a situation so obviously taking advantage of the buyer. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I hope everything goes well and you can end up getting him at a fraction of the cost! Hey, maybe this way you can spend that extra money on something else, like a new car http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

------------------------------------
"Sometimes I don't think before I speak, and it ends out coming stupid."

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:12 PM
whew.. lots to respond to.. here i go..

first off, we got the blood results back. everything checked out completely normal, no anemia, no drugs, nothing. anemia was one thing we were worried about b/c gunsmoke was anemic when we got him, and once he was 'un-anemic', he turned into a little jerk http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

clyde is *very* obviously feeling *very* good. he plays like crazy in the field, and just has a much better attitude (not so depressed) than he had when he first got here. he has put on a good 50-60lbs. since he got here (according to the weight tape), and his personality has not changed a bit, other than him becoming much better in the stall than he was before. like i said, we are throwing the food at him right now. he gets 1 3qt. scoop of grain, 1 3qt. scoop of horsemen's edge pellets (10% protein), and 2 handfuls of flax seed daily, along with high quality timothy hay (as much as he eats, he always has it in front of him), and turnout on a 5+ acre pasture with one other pony from 630-3 daily. and were now starting to let out at night also (weather permitting), so he's getting even more than that.
so him changing when he gains weight is really not a concern to me.. if he would've been physco, he would've been by now. even the vet said that since he isn't anemic, he is probably the way he is.. what you see is what you get were her words.

the xrays are getting done today (actually she just left about 10min. ago), and we'll recieve the results tonight, or tomorrow (i will post then also).

i am not concerned about the flex tests, just the clubbed feet. i've heard of way too many ponies/horses testing positive on flex tests (MUCH worse than clyde also.. as in.. falling over basically) that stay sound their whole life with no problems. you're taking a risk whenever your buying a horse anyway.. they could be completely sound one day, pass the flexions, etc., and then the next day come up dead lame with a suspensory injury (happened to my friend http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif). so yes, him testing positive isn't a good sign, nor are the clubbed feet.. but your taking a risk anyday with horses.

onto individual replies..

lh: i was told that you could just take them to a show and have them measured.. actually cindy has told us today that she WILL get him measured, that's not an issue.
i knew my dad's stick wouldn't be that accurate, but he just had to make the thing lol.. it at least gives us an estimate on whether he'll measure or not.
my dad is a business man, it's what he does for a living. he knows all about contracts, etc. (you should have seen the bill of sale for gunsmoke.. it was.. pages long, very, very detailed), and he won't be taken for a ride by anyone, trust me.
he offered them 15k for him last night, but they will *NOT* budge from 20k, even with the positive flexions, & clubbed feet. so we decided that as long as his xrays clear, and he gets a perm. card, we will buy him. so we're writing that up in the contract, as long as he measures (and gets a perm. card), and his xrays are clear, we will purchase him.

dome: i did a course during the vet check, because she wanted to see him do his changes. that was my 2nd course on him, the first one was done.. a couple days ago, because we wanted to make sure he actually could get around a course. other than that, we have been taking him slowly, due to his lack of muscle, etc.
yes, he's skittish in the stall, but it's not like rearing up, crazy skittish. more like, backing up into a corner when you're grooming, and just in general very tense (that was in the beginning, now he will actually keep eating his hay). it's nothing that can't be helped, and as i said he's already a ton better than when he first arrived. he's techincally not a kids pony.. i'm almost 17 (not saying i'm an adult.. noo.. not ready for that yet http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif), and i see myself as capable of handling something much worse than clyde.
cribbing, like i've said in my earlier posts, isn't a big deal to me. it's annoying, yes, but clyde's is completely controlled with a collar. and he doesn't wear one out in the field, so i'm guessing it's a boredom thing (& if i do purchase him, i plan on getting him some things for in his stall to try to keep his attention on something else).
as i said, i don't really think the positive flex tests are going to be a big deal.. i to have seen many horses be fine that had worse flex tests than clyde. the clubbed feet are what i am personally worried about (future soundness, etc.). but again, i've seen horses with clubbed feet go on to have successful 3'6" careers and stay sound throughout them.. i feel like a broken record.. but it all depends on the individual horse.
broken record again.. but i *know* in this condition he is not worth 20k. but i'm not so sure that once he gains the weight back, and gets muscle, that he won't be. cindy has someone right now that wants him (supposedly http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif), which is why we think the sellers won't budge on 20k.
don't worry, i'm not taking anything personally, or the wrong way. i wish you guys could actually see him move, and see him in person, it'd give you a much better idea on how nice he is. like i said, the vet was extremely surprised as to how well he moved/jumped, considering his clubbed feet.

hobie cat: gunsmoke was sold due to a.. personality conflict. he was everything i needed in a pony, but just didn't have the right attitude for me. he was a more.. hands off pony, just ride, whereas clyde is very nosey, very in your pocket, which is what i want. read what i put in the 2nd & 3rd paragraph of this post about what i think of if he'll change once he gains weight (i don't feel like typing it all over http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).
the vet said that he is completely sound, just positive on the flexions. she said that this could be a problem in 6 months, 5yrs., or never, like i said, it depends on the horse.
he is DEFINATELY fancy enough http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif, i couldn't ask for anything any fancier. good idea about using him for lessons (if needed), i wouldn't want him to waste away.

judi: i kind of already answered everything in your post so far.. my hands hurt http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

madison: yes.. we were very surprised too when they told us they wouldn't budge on 20k, regardless of the flexions, & clubbed feet http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif.

sonotadq: well i thought we had some bargaining power.. looks like we don't http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif. cindy assured us he would be measured and recieve a perm. card. he moves and jumps wonderful, as i said, the vet was very surprised as to how well he moved and jumped after doing the overall check.
my dad knows what he's doing, he won't get taken.. but he knows that i *love* this pony.. and i will be devestated if i don't get him.. as long as he does measure, and his xrays are clear.

vandy: if i send him back, he'll get sent to the other people that want him.. and they don't just want him, they want to buy him, now.

egioja: .. i don't know when i said he didn't show.. he has shown. at least we were told he has. i have looked at numerous other ponies (around 15-20), and none have suited me, and all of them were ponies i have found, clyde is the first that my trainer has found that i've gone and tried (she's found others, but i didn't like them from their pictures).

pwynnorman: i was going to say something about the check ligament surgery also.. i highly doubt anyone would do surgery on something that's just sitting around doing nothing.
he definately knows what he's doing. he may be a bit skittish in the stall, but under saddle it's a different story. he KNOWS his job, and really seems to enjoy it, i haven't seen him put an ear back once, other than when he's listening to me.
yes, i've been riding for almost 12yrs. now, but i've just gotten back into jumping about 6 months ago due to having 2 1/2 yrs. with my arab (who did NOT want to jump), and then having a pretty bad fall from the same horse (broken collar bone.. 6wks. off http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif ). that being said, i am by no means a confident rider, which is why i need something that will take me around like it's nothing, which is what clyde does.
nothing seems to phase him under saddle. we've been throwing some scary jumps at him (flowers, blankets, jackets, tarps, etc. under jumps), and he hasn't looked at anything. we think he's saying 'just hang on kid, let me do the work' http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. which is what i do haha.

ponyplay: my dad's become quite educated throughout my riding years.. he's actually not too shabby with all the terminology. he learned alot today about measuring, perm. cards, etc., and why they are so important.

oxerbound: they're set on 20k.. no less :/

phew.. that all said.. the xray results haven't come in yet, but i will post them when the vet calls.
i have to admit, i have fallen in love with him, and i really don't want to let him go, despite the problems he may, or may not have in the future.
we'll see what the xrays show (if anything, pray that its nothing!), if they're clear, only one more test.. measuring http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

SoNotaDQ
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:22 PM
You know what my gut instinct is? My gut says "they got her, they want this pony and they will pay".

It is your money. There are many things in life that we buy that depreciate. I have never bought high and sold low. Things may not ever go wrong with Clyde and lameness, but you have your cards stacked against you from the start.

I just have a feeling there will be alot of people making money off this deal. Not that it is wrong to do so, people have to eat. I just think the price is way high.

You can buy a car with just a few knocks and pings in it and it may never get worse. Or it may fall apart fast.

If it were me, and I am the gambling sort, I would make a much lower offer and tell them to call me when the pony doesn't sell.

If the Xrays come back marginal(and I am guessing they will with clubbed front feet) I would send them back with an offer of 5k and to call you. Businessmen get taken in horses allll the time. He is probably great at what he does, doesn't ensure that horse trading is a forte'. He has a daughter he loves and wants to make happy. Hard to deny your princess http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BelladonnaLily
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:24 PM
diffuse...the reason (I'm 99.999999% sure) they won't budge is because they already know you want the pony and will give them 20K. WALK AWAY. I'll bet money (and find you a perfect pony if that's what it takes) that they will call you back. It might take a week, or a couple, but they WILL call you back.

In the end, it's you and your parents choice. I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do. But I remember how things with your last pony ended and although it was for different reasons than this MAY wind up, I hate to see you posting about problems with Clyde in 6 months.

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:28 PM
i have no doubt people are making money from this.. but they have to make a living too i guess..

we're being careful with this.. we know alot of stuff sounds fishy.. but we've all grown very attached to him http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Giddy-up
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:29 PM
Glad you are finding out so much. That is great. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif But I do agree with Lordhelpus & the other poster that was a steward (can't remember the name) that when they said the pony must be at a show & show (even if just a flat class was my understanding) in order to be measured for USEF. You need to find out & have the poeple get it done or something cause I would hate to see you left with a "I paid $20K for a 14.3 hony". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif That is something I wouldn't mess with because I have been there, done that with the used-to-be-a-large-now-a-hony & let me say it's not any fun! Lots of heartache & problems. I wouldn't let any "attachment" feelings you are having now get in the way of a business transaction either.

"...but now the gloves are coming off and it's going to get ghetto." Robby Johnson

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:31 PM
actually we told them our limit was 17,500, and offered 15k last night.. so i'm not sure if they do know that we'll pay 20k.

it's really hard to just walk away from him.. i think it'd be different if he was in good condition.. but i feel like he needs me now, and he's bonded to me now.. so i would feel terrible if i had to let him go (UNLESS the xrays are bad, and he doesn't measure).

i just don't think they'd be calling us back.. but who knows..

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:34 PM
giddy-up: oh trust me, he WILL be measured, and WILL recieve a perm. card BEFORE we buy him.. that's one of the conditions of the sale.

gunsmoke was a hony, so i know allll about that.. but gunner was a hony with a perm. card.. we hung onto that for dear life. he's now with someone who has him as a pleasure horse, so she doesn't have to worry about that anymore.

i'm *trying* not to let anything get in the way of this.. but he reminds me so much of my arab (whom i LOVED.. and did not want to sell.. but he was getting dangerous with jumping), it's scary. so i've really become attached in a short time.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Paloma
Mar. 31, 2004, 03:53 PM
Diffuse,
Unfortunately, I cannot help but feel that the owners know you've become attached to this pony. They've got you hook, line and sinker.

They've priced this pony at $20,000 based on

1. his size,
2. his breeding and
3. his show career.

But, they have not been able to back up ONE SINGLE thing they've said about this pony to justify his price. At this point, I'd say they LIED to you to get you to love this pony, so that when the truth came out (or the proof never appeared) you'd love the pony anyways and pay whatever they asked to get it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Now, in addition to NO DOCUMENTATION, you have his VERY poor condition and the fact that he's FAILED the flex tests. All bargaining chips for you to lower the price. Yet they won't budge one penny on the price. Ask yourself WHY. Because they think they've got you hooked, and from what you say, they do.

The question you need to ask yourself is this:
If Clyde breaks down, and based on the COMBINATION of his club-footed conformation AND the failed flex tests, the odds are not promising for long term soundness, can you/your dad afford to buy another pony to do what you want? Can you afford to risk $20k on a pony who has the odds stacked against him for staying sound with normal use?

We all have heard your arguement that horses are a risk and they can go lame for no reason after 6 months. Why play the odds and spend that kind of money on a pony who WILL VERY LIKELY go lame because of how he's built and his flex tests? That makes NO SENSE whatsoever.

I think you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. You are a seller's dream.

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 04:02 PM
eh.. i'm sure i am a sellers dream.. i get very attached, very quickly, very easily.

we haven't directly spoken to his actual owners, just my trainer.. so they probably don't know that i like him as much as i do.

i have no answer as to why they won't budge.. and hopefully we will get some paperwork to show he has done what they say he's done. supposedly he has a perm. card somewhere.. who knows.

worst case scenario, if he does break down, yes, we will be able to get another pony, or horse. although i'm trying not to think of that right now.. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 04:56 PM
my trainer just called to let us know all went well with the x-rays.

they had to take him into the tack room (which is enclosed, except for the door into it), which scares alot of the horses at the barn, and he was perfectly fine with it.

the vet had to basically stand under him for one of the back leg xrays, and he was great.

she was going straight back to the office after she was done, so we're not sure if she'll call us tonight, or in the morning.. i hope tonight, i want to know if he's clear!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Perfect Pony
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:17 PM
I can't believe I just read this whole thread, it reads like a soap opera!

Having had people try to screw me out of commissions and fees more than once, my gut instinct is that all people involved want you to spend as much money as possible on this pony, which in no way in the world is worth 20k! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Cute pony, but give me a break, I'm still waiting for those jumping and under saddle pics to convince me he's worth more than $2500....

But, my only advice is get rid of the middlemen now and have your father speak to the OWNER. Your trainer wants you spend 20k, that translates to 2-3k commission, the broker wants you to spend 20k for their commission - trust me, I've been there, nobody makes any money off a 2-5k sale.

I would have your dad make an offer directly to the OWNER, and walk away. There are a lot of nice ponies out there.

"Dan the Man" (http://community.webshots.com/user/kalitude)

Madison
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:22 PM
diffuse01, I really do hope it all turns out well. I still feel like they know they've got you b/c of how attached you are to the pony, and given that your trainer and Cindy are friends, that has probably been shared just in casual conversation. But, I also know that it would be hard to walk from one you love when horse-shopping is so hard, and that's what you would have to do to get a better deal. If you and your family decide to go for it at $20k, make sure that you'd feel better paying the $20k, even if he has some trouble down the road (which of course may or may not even happen) than you would walking away. If that's the case, then DON'T LOOK BACK OR SECOND GUESS YOURSELF and just enjoy your new pony!

But if showing Pony Hunters is your plan, he needs that card. The fact that they told you he did the Children's Hunters could also suggest that he doesn't measure when he's at show weight, so don't let that slide. Good luck http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:26 PM
i'll try to get some under saddle/jumping pictures of him tomorrow.. it's raining here now.. and supposed to rain tomorrow & friday also.. so we'll see.

we will definately get him measured BEFORE we buy him.. no doubt about that.

i wish we could get in touch with the actual owners.. i'll try to get my dad to press the issue with my trainer, if he wants to. he's pretty much set on spending the money as long as he measures, and the xrays check out.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Charlotte
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madison:
But if showing Pony Hunters is your plan, he needs that card. The fact that they told you he did the Children's Hunters could also suggest that he doesn't measure when he's at show weight, so don't let that slide. Good luck http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You actually need a measurement card to show in the Children's Ponies as well. The fact that he showed in the Children's only tells you that he hasn't broken his green year yet.

Charlotte

Lord Helpus
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> he offered them 15k for him last night, but they will *NOT* budge from 20k, even with the positive flexions, & clubbed feet <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One more question ---

My question is: WHO is "they"???? Did your Dad actually hear the seller with his/her own voice say that the pony will not be sold for a penny less than $20k?

Here is a short story which is relevant: When I was looking for a really good A/O horse many years ago, I had a large budget (I had bought cheaper horses and they had not worked out. So I "went for broke" (literally) and agreed to spend what it took for a horse that could take me to the top.

My trainers found Valor for me. He was 11 and had never left Minnesota. And he was not pretty. However, (and how fortunate for me, they said), he was, coincidently, priced at my top dollar.

I remember standing in the barn aisle in Minnesota, asking my trainer if there was ANY room to negotiate the price since he was 11, some might say ugly and he had never competed against the best.

She stared me down and said: "No. I have already asked them and they are firm on their price". Well, that point was true. They were firm on their price. Problem was, their price was $20,000 and I paid two and a half times that (This was in the 1970's -- so I paid TOP dollar for an ammie horse back then...)

I got a $20k horse for $50k and my trainers put in a new swimming pool...

When I found out, I left the trainer after a screaming match. But I was too stupid to sue -- Later, this was one of the main reasons I went to law school; to find out if I had had a cause of action against them. I did and I would have won. But, by then, they were out of business and there was no money to be had.

I just want to impress upon you that you cannot trust ANYONE in a horse deal. Only believe what you see with your eyes and hear with your ears. Has your father actually talked to the seller directly? Are you telling us the result of this conversation? Or is your trainer the one who is telling you that the $20k is totally non-negotiable?

I would have your father insist on talking to the seller -- and even tell the seller that you are not interested unless you can get him for less.

The reason I am so insisitent is because there is ALWAYS some room for negotiating. ALWAYS. Except possibly for Rox Dene.

A pony in this kind of shape will not have buyers lined up. That is another red flag to me. The old "we have someone who wants him sight unseen" ploy.

This thing stinks. You are being taken for a ride. And I feel powerless to save you from what I went through.

Call their bluff and walk away. Then see how many other people are lined up with their checkbooks out willing to pay $20,000. I will 99.99% guarantee you how many: none.

--------------------

Is there a Va trainer on this thread who could call the seller and say that they had heard that [Seller] had a pony who ---(describing Clyde) -- and that they have a customer who has $5k to spend. Would this pony suit the customer? I bet that Clyde gets mentioned, as in "That pony is out on trial. If he comes back I will call you."

--------------------

I know it is not our business to get in the way of your business, Diffuse. But beleive it or not, we all have your best interests at heart. We have nothing to gain or lose in this transaction. You cannot say the same about the various agents involved.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Oh yeah, I'll bet you're fat and can't ride!" --- Erin, Chief Cathearder. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by Lord Helpus on Mar. 31, 2004 at 07:41 PM.]

Perfect Pony
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:35 PM
BTW Kady, I do LOVE the pony, he is cute, and you seem great, and I have no doubt that what is best for the pony is having you as his owner http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There's just so much shady business going on with this transaction.

I only speak from experience, I lost a $1500 filly I REALLY wanted, that was a really good deal, because I let middlemen get in the way. It got really ugly, people wanted more than they would be getting on just a $1500 sale. I vowed to never let any trainer or broker get in the middle of a transation when it came to money OR vetting, it allows for far too much corruption to happen.

Best of luck to you, and this will be a lucky pony to have you as an owner, no matter what you pay for him.

"Dan the Man" (http://community.webshots.com/user/kalitude)

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:35 PM
no problem lh, it's fine for you to be worried about this, and trying to find out as much as possible.

in answer to your question, no, my dad has not spoken directly to the seller.. i think i'm going to talk to him about this tonight or tomorrow morning.. it'll be very interesting to see if cindy will give out the seller's name, etc.

i don't think anyone here knows who the seller is.. it's not oakland heights.. so i have no clue who it is http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

thanks porcelain pony http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Lord Helpus
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
in answer to your question, no, my dad has not spoken directly to the seller.. i think i'm going to talk to him about this tonight or tomorrow morning.. it'll be very interesting to see if cindy will give out the seller's name, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohhhhh, Diffuse.... If your trainer will not put your Dad in contact with the seller, RUN. Do not walk... RUN the other way. An honest agent is HAPPY to put the two parties together. An honest agent has nothing to hide, and if the parties negotiate directly with each other, it absolves the agent of liability. So it is in everyones' best interest to have the principals talk to each other.

Only agents who have something to hide will resist letting the buyer and seller talk to each other.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Oh yeah, I'll bet you're fat and can't ride!" --- Erin, Chief Cathearder. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 05:58 PM
lh: cindy isn't my trainer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.. cindy is my trainer's friend who found clyde for us..

anyway. just got a call from the vet, she checked his xrays. hocks are great, coffin bones are great, she said in his front you can definately see the angles from the clubbed feet, but we knew that already. she said despite that, he has little to no arthritic changes. the only thing that needs to be re-shot tomorrow is his naviculars.. because there must've been dust/dirt, and air between his feet, so the xrays had shadows on them.
so she's coming tomorrow and putting putty in his hooves to get a clear shot.. but she said he's ALOT better than she thought he'd be http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:03 PM
LordHelpus, we have many clients who DO NOT want to be contacted by a prospective buyer. Their take is that this is why they have sent the horse off to be sold.. so that they do not have to deal with it. Period.

Now having said that, a friend of mine recently bought a new horse and the agent was adamant that she not speak to the woman who owned the horse... well, she was contacted by the seller shortly after the sale and YES, there were some stories to be told http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But there is not always something being hidden. Sometimes it's just an agent doing what their client has requested.

Just as an interesting comp - we just got a pony back into our barn to sell... 9 year old Welsh/QH x (not documented, but does not look Arab-y in any way, has good substance, welsh head, long neck), 14.1 w/my real stick, nice conformation, good feet (barefoot), *beautiful mover* - from what I see in these pics, a much nicer mover than this pony, easy over fences, seems to be sticky on his changes but is very out of shape so I can't determine if he is not capable or not willing at this point... chestnut w/two hind socks, star/snip - lovely manners, easy to ride - has local C show miles, would not be laughed out of the ring at the A's if the changes are there - not in great show condition but certainly not a 3 on the body grading scale - $6500.

Any one else got a pony to comp? This could be interesting.

EqTrainer
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
lh: cindy isn't my trainer http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.. cindy is my trainer's friend who found clyde for us..

anyway. just got a call from the vet, she checked his xrays. hocks are great, coffin bones are great, she said in his front you can definately see the angles from the clubbed feet, but we knew that already. she said despite that, he has little to no arthritic changes. the only thing that needs to be re-shot tomorrow is his naviculars.. because there must've been dust/dirt, and air between his feet, so the xrays had shadows on them.
so she's coming tomorrow and putting putty in his hooves to get a clear shot.. but she said he's ALOT better than she thought he'd be http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

-kady-
-http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01-
-http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fetlocks?

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:06 PM
not sure about fetlocks.. she said everything was great other than the navicular's (which of course she couldn't read b/c of dust, etc.).

oh lord.. comparing ponies to clyde.. mm.. this will be interesting lol. :sinks into chair:

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Black Market Radio
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:18 PM
What about stifles, did she do the stifles? VERY important.

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
You have got to be the WORST Pirate I have ever heard of.
Ah, but you HAVE heard of me!

EqTrainer
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
not sure about fetlocks.. she said everything was great other than the navicular's (which of course she couldn't read b/c of dust, etc.).

oh lord.. comparing ponies to clyde.. mm.. this will be interesting lol. :sinks into chair:

-kady-
-http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01-
-http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear. I didn't mean it quite like that Kady. I can delete that post if you'd like me to.

Fetlocks.. *yes*. He flexed off. Flexion on front legs involves the fetlocks mostly, knees secondarily. It does not involve their feet. Without pics of his fetlocks you can't really know why he flexed off so badly unless she found something on palpation (tendon or soft tissue issue)... under these circumstances you may want to be also doing his knees... I'm assuming her podiatry shots showed his pasterns, but if not you may want that too... I would.

since she is coming back out, you may want to ask her did she do his fetlocks and knees, could she see his pasterns, and if no.. well, you know http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif better to know now then later!

PonyPlay
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:25 PM
I agree with EQTrainer if this bothers you I will take mine down as well. If you love a pony I know no others can compare.

Me:"...but you said stop after the last fence"
Trainer:" NO, I said TROT after the last fence"

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:26 PM
she did his stifles, they were fine http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

eqtrainer: its ok haha, trust me, i know that there are ponies out there for this much that are much nicer than clyde.. but you can't help what you fall in love with http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

anyway, i just wrote all that down, and i'll ask her tomorrow what she xrayed.. i know she was very thorough (sp? lord..) because she herself was worried about his front end.. but i will double check and make sure she did everything http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

wow.. when i started this, i never knew it was going to turn into an 8 page thread http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Madison
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlotte:
You actually need a measurement card to show in the Children's Ponies as well. The fact that he showed in the Children's only tells you that he hasn't broken his green year yet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I read it wrong - I thought she said he had done Children's Hunters, not Children's Ponies, and that's what I was referring to.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

ShowBiz
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:41 PM
Sorry folks, this is a long one...

I've been following this thread since the start & I just wanted to share a couple experiences...

I too fall in love way too easy & get attached way too fast. From March 2001 until April 2003 I was horseless...I was on a mad search for the horse of my dreams.

I tried out over 80 horses, traveled all over the country, can't even count how many videos I viewed & then vetting nine prospects total. I finally found the horse of my dreams...just a couple hours north of me; 16.3h refined Holsteiner gelding, just imported from Germany. Perfect horse, bright bay, 3 white stockings, big blaze, 5 years old, had enormous suspension & a jump to die for. I was in love. They were asking mid 5-figures for this guy. I went forward with the vetting, he passed everything with flying colors, flexions, drug screen--everything--well, except for his x-rays. Sidebone, changes in the navicular, spurs on his fetocks & arthritic changes in his hocks, gosh...it was a mess in there. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Anyway, I was wrecked after that vetting, totally burnt out & ready to write the check. I wanted him so badly, already spent lots of time with him, rode him several times...we just clicked, he was a jaw dropper & a lover of a horse--that had "fire" when incited. I offered the sellers a little less than the asking price & mentioned what we had found in the vetting. They declined my offer & told me that they were raising his price. And that they did...he went up to a high 5-figures...& eight months later they sold him to a woman who was not concerned over his issues. Fast forward to this year. Horse is going strong at 2nd level dressage, with tremendous talent to move up--granted, he's on serious maintenance for all his issues, but other than that, he is quite the competitor--now, who knows how long he truly will last, but so far, so good.

So, my search continued...& a whole year later I found Biz, the love of my life. He was twice as fancy as the aforementioned gelding & he vetted clean as a whistle--x-rays, flexions, drug screen...everything, he was perfect. Well, fast forward to Oct. '03...he had to be put down due to an internal abscess that attached itself to his diaphragm. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Part of what I am trying to say is that there are always other horses out there--even after you think you have fallen in love with the most perfect horse/pony ever...there will be a fancier one that is clean & just rocks your world--but the other part of what I am trying to say is that just because they are clean...does not mean they will last. Call me torn & confused...but sometimes taking the risk pays off...& other times it can create a lot of heartache. Are you willing to take this risk?

In a way I want to say go with your heart--but $20k for this unregistered, unproven, wormy-looking, club footed, cribbing pony is waaaaay more than I'd pay. And yes, the sellers know that you've fallen for him, so of course they aren't going to lower the price over the phone--until you say these words; "I will be dropping him off at your place tomorrow." Then they will crack.

Good luck & I really hope it does work out for you. Anyhow, it's time for me to go back to my horse shopping... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

**Edited to correct the year in October.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ShowBiz 8/99-10/03 - Greatly missed.

[This message was edited by ShowBiz on Mar. 31, 2004 at 10:19 PM.]

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:41 PM
from what we were told, he's done the children's hunters.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

SoNotaDQ
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:43 PM
Diffuse, I think you are being taken for a ride also. Your trainer's *friend* just happened to find a pony at your maximum(which I am sure your trainer said "hey, keep an eye out for a cute/fancy pony no more than 20k) and you don't know who the seller is. Can't be contacted to get a permanent card and can't be contacted to get a show record.

I know horse trainers. They have worked for me. The one I know was the BEST salesperson I have ever met. She made you feel stupid for not buying whichever horse for the price she was asking. I can't do it. Never have been. She was quite the master at it. I am sure she was nothing compared to name brand trainers.

Find the owner first. Sounds like your trainer's friend is going to get a swimming pool off this horse's sale also. I know you love the pony, but you have had a false sense of worth(current) instilled in you.

Walk away. You will get a call. At 20k, he is going nowhere fast.

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:48 PM
showbiz: wow.. 80 horses.. i definately haven't reached that number. so sorry to hear about biz, that's really sad. but you're right, some that vet clean will become lame, some that vet bad will stay sound the rest of their life.
thankfully the worms are gone, he did have them.. we've wormed him twice with strongid, and if we buy him, i'm planning on doing him again with quest this time (cleared my arab up in a week when he got worms).
i agree that we do need to get in contact of his real owners.. we'll talk to my trainer about that tomorrow.

i can't walk away now.. just can't http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.. unless he doesn't measure, and his naviculars are a mess.. he's mine http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Black n Blue
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShowBiz:
--until you say these words; _"I will be dropping him off at your place tomorrow."_ Then they will crack.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

from my experince that has worked, thats how i got my filly. they brought down the price another 2k and we got her.

neway,
you sound like you luf this pony but you should really get out of this situation, its shady and alll your doing is walking further & further into the trap. you keep making up excuses for everything, but you seem to obvioulsy have the money to cahnce on this pony and belive me these people obviously know it.
walk away! get out of this situation asap. no offence but he isnt worth a penny over 5,000 myabe not even that but ive never seen him go or w/e.
but id follow everyones advice and give up on the pony! i bet youll find one 100 times nicer with actual proven show records, papers, in shap and ready to rock-n-roll for like 1/2 his price or maybe his price.

---------
Manure Happens.
*Playmate Of The Year*'Round The Bend*China Figurine*Creme Filling*

Madison
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
i can't walk away now.. just can't http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.. unless he doesn't measure, and his naviculars are a mess.. he's mine http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

diffuse, I hope what you take away from everyone's concerns is that no one is saying they think you shouldn't get the pony you love, people are just saying that they think you can get the pony for less, even though someone has reportedly said $20k is it. In the end, I and others think you will end up with the pony. It's just that I think that you would also end up with him if you said "either we bring you a $15k check tomorrow and you accept, or we bring the pony back." Also, regardless of what you pay, you should know who is making what commission on the deal - that is not a secret and anyone who tries to conceal it if you ask likely has something to hide. Good luck!

(I know - it is much easier to say that when you are sitting on the sidelines http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

Justbay
Mar. 31, 2004, 06:56 PM
Well, from what I personally know about this situation, this nice young girl and her parents are not totally clueless on what type of pony it takes to in our competitive "local" (basically a B or C circuit in other states) VHSA Associate Circuit and some A- Rated shows in Virginia. Virginia is tough in the ponies and they have been looking for sometime for a nice pony.

I do not know them personally, but did speak on the phone to her mother and did help to put them in touch with some TOP pony breeders in Virginia- you know, the ones that win at Devon, Pony Finals, etc. Right now, the Large Pony market for what they are looking for is limited- really. They are very very pricey for nice ponies. If that pony were perfect, I seriously think it would be in the 40-50K range here. I am not crazy either - I know lots of ponies sold for that MUCH MONEY who are not PERFECT but do the jumps, make the leads ect-

As far as cribbing- I sold one recently, a medium I raised-- named "Humor Me" - top ribbons at Pony Finals, Qualified for WIHS. Yeah, he cribbed, no one else on my farm did - who knows. Did not effect his weight etc. Club feet- depends there...most are fine with a good farrier IMOHO. I am not here to judge. Vet says its OK.

Anyway, I am hoping for Kady that she has found a nice pony, who she seems to adore, seeing through its condition ( and good for her) to go on and be a nice CHILDRENS HUNTER PONY. Believe me, I have seen them sell for lots more. And yes, commissions get involed. Sounds like Kady and her family are aware of that.

And I do think there are some very very very valid points on this thread about horse/pony shopping that everyone should be aware of. My gut feeling is, is if their vet approves, trainer approves and family approves- go for it.

Oh well, this is all I wanted to say right now.

These are my horses: www.woodsendfarm.com (http://www.woodsendfarm.com)

Justbay
Mar. 31, 2004, 07:04 PM
Lastly, as far as horseshows and measuring ponies, from my understanding - and I have done this with youg ponies to get a card, the pony MUST BE ENTERED and have a number to be officially measured by a steward and the vet. However, the pony can be scratched from competition and actaully never show. They must follow the USEF drug rules.

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 07:09 PM
i know that no one is saying i shouldn't get him.. just that i try to get him for less http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

thanks justbay, you're right.. for the kind of pony i want, the selection is very limited.. except for a select few that are around 50k.. and that IS out of our price range.

as far as measuring, i know that cindy wants to take him to some show (not sure which) this weekend that's near her and get him measured, and get him a perm. card.. don't know what she plans on entering though.. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

PonyPlay
Mar. 31, 2004, 07:23 PM
Just in case you end up wanting to so some more looking I found some cuties here in your price range.I used to do catch rides who sold some of her ponies here. This is the guy I want!

http://www.dianecrump.com/horse_pages/1832.htm

Me:"...but you said stop after the last fence"
Trainer:" NO, I said TROT after the last fence"

haybrook
Mar. 31, 2004, 07:25 PM
Just another thought - what is the age limit for showing in Children's Pony? I thought is was 17.

diffuse01
Mar. 31, 2004, 08:03 PM
ponyplay: i saw that pony earlier today too.. he's very cute, but it says he's a pony jumper.. which is not what i want.

haybrook: no idea on the age limit.. i just know i won't be showing him in children's hunter anyway.. so it doesn't really matter http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Equine Adhesive
Mar. 31, 2004, 08:18 PM
This thread is amazing. What do pony hunter prospects (lightly shown, or not? or 3 y/o greenies, etc.) go for? Maybe I should sell off my jumpers and switch my concentration (just kidding).

diffuse you should listen to what some of these people are saying...I think your mind is made up but everyone here has a lot of experience and logical decision-making skills to help you. In the very least, find out the real story from a valid source (the owner).

Fiction
Mar. 31, 2004, 08:19 PM
The Children's Hunters, and Children's Hunter Ponies are both junior rider divisions. Meaning you have to be a junior member of USEF (17 or under).
Unlike the regular ponies, they don't determine age limits by pony heights. I know of many 17 year olds who showed even small ponies at their last show before aging out.

-----
This is not a true story
-----

OLD A/O
Mar. 31, 2004, 08:47 PM
I too agree with Lordhelpus. Sometimes things are not what they seemed. I had a horse that should have sold but not was selling. He was not selling because the trainer was asking $10,000 more than I wanted for the horse. The horse was not worth the extra money.

I would have sold him in a heart beat if someone had called me personally. However, all offers were put thru the trainer. Two months of full page ads in the Chronicle and no bites. I could not understand it until someone told me what the trainer's price was.

So be brave and contact the owner yourself. Plus good luck!!!

2Traks
Mar. 31, 2004, 09:25 PM
I can add my own short story. A friend of mine was the broker on a beautiful 4 year old Trak mare. She suckered me into coming out and riding her and I fell in love. I wasn't looking for a horse at the time, but immediately decided to see is I could make it happen. The horse was $30,000 which was out of my price range. I asked if there was any wiggle room and she said no because the horse was actually underpriced. I tried, but just couldn't come up with the money and had to say no.

Almost a year later the horse still hadn't sold (partially because the broker was having a grand old time riding and showing the mare and wasn't making much of an effort to advertise her) and the owner was, of course, still footing the show fees and monthly bills at a very, very expensive barn wondering why the horse didn't sell. I had, by this time, decided to buy another horse and ended up buying a mare that was owned by the same woman. She was around $10,000 less, and while I was very happy with the horse I still would have rather had the 4 year old mare.

Several months later I was speaking to the owner and said, "You know, I really wanted xxx, but she was way out of my price range and (the broker) said there was no room for price negotiations." The owner looks confused and says. "Both mares were the same price." I replied, "Well, (the broker) said she was $30,000." The owner was royally hacked off and said she would have happily taken what I had paid for the other mare. Long story short, the mare was summarily removed from the barn (within a few hours) and sold for under $15,000 when the owner found out that the broker had basically ridden the mare so hard that she was going to have permanenet soundness issues. On top of that, once everything was tallied up, the owner had spent over $18,000 maintaining the horse during the time the broker had her. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

wesierobb
Mar. 31, 2004, 09:39 PM
Just to clear up the measurement facts. Under current USEF rules,the pony must be ENTERED to show in order to be measured. It is no longer required that the pony actually show in anything.

If the pony already has a measurement card SOMEWHERE, it is very simple to look it up online. I would be happy to do that for you.

The ace is DEFINITELY a no-no. It would fall under a drug rule violation, just as Lord Helpus stated.

The 1/2" rule has been done away with. Now if a pony's height is protested, the owner is allowed time to "prepare" the pony: pull the shoes, file the feet, ride it forever, LTD, whatever. The pony has to be presented for a protest measurement within one hour of its last class of the day.

As far as ages of riding ponies, 17 is the cut off for any pony classes, be it large pony or children's pony. However, an adult can ride a pony in adult am. hunters.

I wish you nothing but good luck in this very difficult decision.

http://www.pzonearth.com

Coca-Cola
Mar. 31, 2004, 09:50 PM
I just read this thread and all I can say is, "wow".

You found a pony who you were told was The Diplomat, but there is no proof.
You have been told that he has done the children's hunters. But again, no proof.
They tell you he's a pony, but he has no permanent card, and therefore no proof (yet).
He has a significant conformation issue and fails the vet check. (failed flexion tests are pretty significant considering his relatively young age of 8 and his club foot)
He's in very poor condition.

You are told he's priced at $20k because of what the trainer claims this pony has done, but the trainer can't/won't prove it. Why? The most obvious answer is: They Lied. You yourself admit that he's not worth $20k in his present condition, yet are willing to ask your dad to pay the money anyways because he's cute and you love him. Even though the trainer can't back up their claims about the pony. When you go to a store, do you let them overcharge you? Of course not. In fact, you usually complain. If a store has prices that are consistently higher than everywhere else, do you continue to shop there? No. Why should this pony be any different?

I hope your dad has a bit more objective view about this and won't let you get ripped off. Because that is &gt;exactly&lt; what this trainer/horse trader is doing by trying to get you to fork over $20k: ripping you off. And after all the excellent advice you've been given on this thread, if you pay that kind of money, you are LETTING yourself get ripped off. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

That would be a real shame.

Egioja
Mar. 31, 2004, 11:12 PM
Definitly, definitly talk directly to the owner! Make sure that you know who is getting what for commision, actually you could even have that put in the contract. I would be willing to bet that the owners are asking under 5k for him-if hes in this kind of condition they obviuosly dont valvue him that much-and definitly dont see him as worth 20k.
As coca-cola said they told you a whole bunch of stuff, and when you asked for proof you didn't get it. Therefore I would be willing to bet that they are not putting you in contact with the owner for the same reason-they don't want you to know the truth (whatever it may be).
Have your dad make the check out to the owner, and have the owner sign the contract, not their agent.

http://groups.msn.com/BAENAddicts/lizsherd.msnw?albumlist=2
"Don't view it as a problem, see it as an oppurtunity for a solution."

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 05:13 AM
as far as age goes, it says:

Article 2801. Junior & Children’s Hunters.
1. Riders must not have reached their 18th birthday (See General Rules, Art. 116).

so it's not 17, it's 18 http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. and my birthday is july 5th, so i will be able to show my whole 17yr. old year, because it's whatever age you are come dec. 1.. sorry if that didn't make sense..

as far as measuring, i think were planning on taking him to some show this weekend to get him measured & get a perm. card. i've emailed usaeq asking for any info. on 'the diplomat', and they don't have anything, so i doubt he really does have one.

i talked to my dad this morning about trying to get his owners number. he said he had asked my trainer about that, and she told him they didn't want it given out.. soo..

but anyway. he KNOWS that my trainer, and cindy, are both getting a commission out of this. i think it's bothering me more than him. he doesn't seem to be concerned about this price, or the fact that yes, they've probably inflated it a whole bunch. in his words 'they have to make money too'. so as far as that goes.. i don't think it really matters to him at this point.

the vet's coming today to re-xray his naviculars, and she'll get those results tonight.. i'll post then http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Apr. 1, 2004, 06:10 AM
Kady, I don't think anyone is concerned about the fact that everyone is making money. That is the way it works, and for good reason. The issue is, there is a common structure for commission on horses, that includes "rules" about double dipping, etc. There is a certain amount of sheer audacity in asking $20k for a pony in his condition, with an obvious trail of lies. My concern at this point would be:

WHAT ELSE HAVE I NOT BEEN TOLD?

Because.. what else you have *not* been told could be really heartbreaking. Such as, he is flexing off from an old, bad suspensory injury. Or, once he is fit, he turns into a bolter after the second fence in every outside line. When people lie to you.. the lies multiply. One lie means you simply cannot trust someone. More than one lie certainly means there are more. That is a sad truth http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif((

The most important thing about buying horses, IMO, is to buy from people you can trust. IMO your trainer may be failing you in that area. I am not bashing her.. just telling you, all these things you are researching and concerned about, including the results of the vet check, are things she should have *already* looked into and taken care of.

I always laugh when people say they don't want to buy from an agent because they misrepresent horses.. IME it is the owners who are the worst for this - we buy from owners, and the whoppers we have been told are HUGE... a good agent ferrets out the truth about every horse, rides him themselves until they know all about the horse, has their vet and farrier evaluate it.. a lot of the work is done by the time you get there - as it should be. At this point, I am wondering exactly what are you paying for? Pure speculation http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Lord Helpus
Apr. 1, 2004, 06:55 AM
Wesierobb,

Thank you so much for correcting me. Is it obvious that it has been a while since I was a steward??? I should not have posted until I had checked the current rules. I really appreciate your posting the correct information.

Diffuse,

Your father obviously loves you and wants to make you happy. But, ask yourself if he would willingly pay 4x the Fair Market Value for a used car for you. Especially when the used car salesman tells you that the car has been owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays. But the used car salesman will not let you talk to this little old lady to verify what he is saying.

Then the mechanic determines that the tires are worn down to the steel belts (ok, you say, we could see that), the bottom is almost rusted through (ok, you say, we can rust coat it), that drinks gas like it a jet airliner (ok, you say, we can afford gas) -- well, you get where I am going with this...

But, but... you say. The car is a really neato color, its the model I have been looking for and, right now it starts right up. If, in 6 months it falls apart, you can just buy me another car for 4x bluebook value, because, after all, that is what you are willing to do to make me happy.

Does this sound like a good situation to you? Does it sound like something your dad would do?

If so, will he adopt me? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Oh yeah, I'll bet you're fat and can't ride!" --- Erin, Chief Cathearder. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Equine Adhesive
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:23 AM
folks, I think this situation is more frustrating to the readers than it is to the people shelling out the 20k....

Just like everyone else, I mean no offense by this: I first opened your thread a while back when you first posted photos. I had been under the impression you were in the market for a $20k pony, so when I saw the pictures and read you took him out of a field (correct me if my memory is shady) I assumed you had rescued this critter for around $1500 or so, and thought, "well, that's sweet, but I wonder what happened to getting her a show pony" and thought maybe your parents didn't want to shell out the money for a show pony.
Then a while passes (a week?) and I notice the thread is still here and getting huge, so I click in again (on page 7 or 8) and am totally blown away that THIS is the $20K pony and this whole story is absurd. And again, if you buy him, and you're happy, that is great, but you go in with your eyes wide open (or really, forcefully shut).

ChagrinSaddlery
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:39 AM
The pony is adorable.

However, I do not believe there is one person on this planet, that is of sound mind that will pay $20,000 for an unproven, underweight, pony with a pronounced conformation fault.

You played your hand before the round was up. They know what you are willing to pay and they are taking advantage of it. It's unfair to you and your family.

Trust me kiddo, if you make a cash offer on the table for a lessor amount, they will not walk away.

Good Luck.

Dana

Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

http://community.webshots.com/album/95482669jtPjKw?504

KrazyTBMare
Apr. 1, 2004, 08:35 AM
I have to agree with everyone else. And personally, I could NEVER ask my parents to pay $20k on a horse or pony or car or anything else when I knew we were being scamed. I just couldnt do it and sleep at night. Even if it was the best item in the whole world, if it wasnt legit and there were still things wrong, hell no! There are much much much nicer ponies out there for WAY less than $20k, that will take less time and effort to get them to where you want them. There are poines out there, buy now, show tomorrow.

Proud Member Of The Hot TB Mare, The Florida, & the Disgruntled College Student Clique

Mel0309
Apr. 1, 2004, 09:26 AM
Anyone else wonder if "Cindy", "Trainer", or "Owner" are/is reading this thread and know that she will spend the $20,000?

Also looked at the rest of Diane Crumps ponies...she had some nice ones under $20,000 that looked to be made.

See my photo album @ http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/mel030981

Janet
Apr. 1, 2004, 10:03 AM
Also remember that "telling them you are going to walk away" is not the same as ACTUALLY walking away.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

Dune
Apr. 1, 2004, 10:15 AM
Well, I've read this thread with interest but pretty much stayed out of it, but I can't sit on my hands any longer. I would tell the trainer that if you cannot speak with the owner, the deal is OFF. Also, I would want to know exactly how much the commissions are. I've been looking at ponies, and let me tell you: $20,000.00 can buy you a LOT of pony! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif This pony is cute and looks like he has some potential, but the story is way too shady, the pony is in terrible condition (you really don't know what you have yet) and has a vice that would turn off a lot of people. You have NO papers, NO proven show record, NO history or background. I would be willing to bet that the owners want around $5000.00 for him and because he has all the pretty trimmings and you need a quiet pony, your trainer and her "friend" are padding the price BIG TIME! I'd walk away unless some demands were met. Period. I also just wanted to say that you sound like a very intelligent mature young lady to be taking all of this so well without blowing your top. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif You have taken some heavy criticism and handled yourself VERY well. I would just hate to see someone like you taken advantage of. You deserve to have a nice pony that will be your mount for years and years and NOT have to pay through the nose for it. Anyway, I just wanted to compliment you on your demeanor, I have to say that I am impressed. Good luck to you either way, and please let us know how it works out, what a saga!

Madison
Apr. 1, 2004, 10:40 AM
Agreed, Dune - diffuse has handled all of this very well, particularly considering she has to be on pins and needles with this situation hanging over her head!

diffuse, hang in there - remember that you are fully entitled to know who owns this pony and how much commission is being paid to each person since you are the one who would be paying it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav

Jessi P
Apr. 1, 2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Article 2801. Junior & Children’s Hunters.
1. Riders must not have reached their 18th birthday (See General Rules, Art. 116).

so it's not 17, it's 18 .. and my birthday is july 5th, so i will be able to show my whole 17yr. old year, because it's whatever age you are come dec. 1. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not quite clear on this Diffuse.. I thought you were 17 already going on 18 in July? If not then I misunderstood. If you are currently 16 going on 17 then you will be able to show this pony for 20 months, thru Dec 31 2005. The pony obviously cant (ok, "shouldnt") be shown for a minimum of 6-8 weeks, as it will take him that long at MINIMUM to get the weight on him he needs to present and show well, not to mention muscle and endurance to be able to get through 3-5 classes at a show. Are you sure that you wouldnt rather buy a made pony for the limited time remaining you will be able to show one? Twenty grand will buy you a nice pony ready to show, even if not in your immediate area there are several people on here who would go out of their way to find a nice one for you instead of seeing this situation end up poorly for you. Several folks have posted some very nice ponies for sale for you to look at and I have not seen one that is NOT way nicer than Clyde, even if ONLY because they are in good condition and healthy NOW. It may be that by the time you get Clyde ready to show you will only have the fall and winter of this year, and next year, and then who knows how he will do. I agree he is cute, I think everyone here agrees that... but why buy a pony that needs tons of work on it to show when you can buy a nice made ready to go one who you can start showing in May. And yes, it will be your pony and its your parents' money, but everyone here is just looking out for you and wanting the best for you. YOu mentioned one of the reasons you liked him so much was because he reminded you of Tim... perhaps you can find another one who looks like Tim.. I bet the folks on here would just about walk through walls to find you one instead of Clyde. In the end, I wish you the best with whatever you do. Curiously though, what will you be showing when you are 18 (calendar year)? Would it be possible to try to find something that would accomodate you now AND then? I know if my kid came to me and said buy me this 20K pony now, but be prepared to shell out another 20-35k in 18 months for something else I would tell him to go pound sand, even if it was within my budget.

oldfogy
Apr. 1, 2004, 11:36 AM
difuse iknow who your trainer is and i can not believe that she is allowing you to pay this astronomical(sp) price for this pony. she of all people should know that with all the problems that this pony has that it would not be worth takeing the chance!!!! have been watching this thread for awhile and couldd not sit back and watch this happen. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SoNotaDQ
Apr. 1, 2004, 01:09 PM
This is a dumb question, but why don't you *lease* a super nice pony for the rest of your junior career?? The $$$ investment would be small(er) and you would have a fancy, showable pony NOW.

In the meantime look for a fancy small horse(15.2+ish) who can take you to shows after you have grown out of the pony division. That size horse and 20k would buy something very fancy and not feel too big for you

I am 5ft, 100lbs and 35years old. I ride a 16hh Anglo/TK who is not narrow. I do not feel too small for her. She actually has a nice solid feel to her. I have ridden large ponies and small horses(15hh) and I liked them fine also. Her step is so much longer than a 15hh or a large, it isn't as limiting.

Lease a fancy large while looking for your dream horse(that doesn't have to be humungus!)

pwynnnorman
Apr. 1, 2004, 02:42 PM
Playing devil's advocate (my current mood):

Mightn't this be jsut a simple case of "I love him, so I want him, no matter what?"

I sat next to a lady at an auction once who had fallen in love with a palomino mini. Ordinary auction, wealthy lady. The pony (unregistered) was cute and well enough presented, especially for a rather rough sale as this one was, but it wasn't worth the $5000 she paid for it (the next highest priced horse at this particular auction was $1200).

But she was determined to have that pony--and it was clear that only one other person was (either someone as determined as she, or maybe someone the seller had planted in the audience). It mattered to neither that the pony wasn't worth it, only that they HAVE it.

So be it. It's Diffuse's money. This pony is worth whatever SHE and her family think it is worth for her to have it.

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

Sam Iam
Apr. 1, 2004, 03:57 PM
Diffuse,

I'm just curious at this point what your feelings are on your trainer. It's quite clear from your posts that you realize that this pony is way overpriced and has some significant health/vet issues. I personally would be very concerned about a past surgery on an 8 year-old. Regardless, you and your parents have choosen to overlook these things and pay the inflated price. That is your decision and your money, you can do with it what you wish. No flames from me.

But what about this trainer, what is she saying, how can she rationalize all this "stuff". Quite honestly, I'm surprised she'd even SHOW you a pony in this condition at this price, much less actually sell it to you. Do you feel that she's treating you honestly and being fair. Do you still trust her judgement? And didn't you get burned with your first pony? Maybe it's time for you to start trainer shopping... Your thoughts, please.

RodeoHunter
Apr. 1, 2004, 04:08 PM
Well considering that the price on this pony is no object to diffuse's parents, I am more concerned about what this will do to diffuse if the pony breaks down in a year or two.....the money seems to be a non-issue so even if they are paying way too much it doesn't matter if they don't care.

diffuse - you have shown a lot of maturity in this thread; not once have I seen you get overly defensive and that is a hard thing to do when so many people are posting things that are probably not what you are wanting to hear.

That said, these people are very experienced and what they have said holds a lot of merit. Price or not, if this pony starts under hard work and starts to show soundness problems, how will this affect you emotionally? You're already so in love with this pony and it would be pretty upsetting if he started to have issues. The clubbed foot may be a non-issue, but what if it is? Sorry to be a downer but we have to think of everything, right?

Anyways good luck with whatever you decide and keep us updated, at 9 pages and counting we are obviously very interested! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

**Member of the Ocularly Challenged Equine Support Group**

findeight
Apr. 1, 2004, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diffuse01:
as far as age goes, it says:......

as far as measuring, i think were planning on taking him to some show this weekend to get him measured & get a perm. card. i've emailed usaeq asking for any info. on 'the diplomat', and they don't have anything, so i doubt he really does have one......

i talked to my dad this morning about trying to get his owners number. he said he had asked my trainer about that, and she told him they didn't want it given out.. soo..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, there is no info on anything named The Diplomat and no permanant card..even though this thing has supposedly been showing...and the trainer claims the owners don't want their info given out.......... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

What about this strikes you as normal?

It's NOT. Dad maybe right here about more then the commisions.

Sounds like you are getting taken for an expensive ride to profit others here.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

OLD A/O
Apr. 1, 2004, 04:52 PM
Sounds to me that you are a very lucky person to have such wonderful parents. Everyone who has horses has had the feelings that you are having right now: "This is the horse for me and I really want him."

Last year I felt a little like you are. There was an OTTB I fell in love with. Well, I bought him and about four months later I found one that would have been better for me. Then I found myself saying boy if I had just waited.

Please get out there on your own and see what ponies or horses are available. You may find something you really like better. Good luck!!!!

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 05:37 PM
wow.. i can't believe how many replies this thread has gotten http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif.. here i go with my replies..

eqtrainer: we talked to the vet about his flexions today, and she said that one reason he could've tested positive was that he did have a front shoe off for 5 days before the flexions, which can definitaly cause some soreness, etc.
as i said, i'm not too worried about them at this point, with the xrays checking out clear, etc.
him turning into a bolter once he gains weight isn't a worry either.. he's feeling much too good right now, and if he was going to be stupid, i really think he would've been by now.
nobody's lied to me.. well, yes, they've said he's shown, etc., and have no record. but again, he showed in unrated divisions years ago, so i'm not sure if he even would have a record at this point.

lh: that situation definitaly doesn't sound good haha.. but really.. you're taking a risk buying any horse. no horse has perfect conformation, and not every horse has had perfect flexions. gunsmoke passed all his flexions with flying colors, but guess what? a month later he was having horrible back problems, due to problems in his hocks, which came up *after* the xrays, flexions, etc. he was on stall rest for 2wks., and off for 2 months. so really.. they can have perfect flexions and go lame in a week, and then can have positive flexions and stay sound forever.

equine_a: yes, he was found in a field.. somewhere.. he's been here 11 days today.. i can't believe how many people have responded lol. i'm very happy with him at this point, and he's getting better everyday with handling, weight gain, etc. i just feel like he's going to be fine. the vet's have been very surprised with the xrays being clear, and how he moves & jumps, despite his conformation faults.

num1train: lol.. i think we're in the 'anyone on the planet, sound of mind' that'll buy him catagory.. because we are planning on buying him, as long as he measures as a pony. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

krazytbmare: we're not being scammed. we know that no one knows anything about clyde, we know we can't find a show record, we know he has conformation faults, etc., and we know how much he is.. and trust me, i've been the *negative* one around the house this whole week. my parents are the ones that are being positive, they want this to work, they love him too, despite his condition. i'm not one of those kids that is show, show, show either. i'm planning on doing one like.. 2-3 times a month, locally, and *maybe* some a's (as in lexington, not ocala, devon, etc.). i'm really not into showing that much at all, it stresses me out to be honest. but i *want* a pony i *can* show on, and feel comfortable on (as in not feeling like 'OMG he's gonna bolt!'). so i don't need a pony that's ready to show (condition wise, i do need something that mentally ready, which clyde is).

mel: i know that cindy doesn't get online ever.. and my trainer knows that i've been talking to you guys.. clyde's owner, i have no clue. diane has some nice ponies.. i really don't like any of them though, other than the one that was posted earlier, but he's advertised as a jumper pony.

dune: as i said, i know i can get a 'show ready' pony right now for 20k.. but as justbay said, in our area, there are NOT alot of ponies for sale that meet my criteria. we have been trying to stay in the area, because we have found ponies around here that do meet it, but i have gone and tried them, and they haven't suited me. his story may be shady, but i have him now, and i know his temperment, etc., so i'm not worried about his 'past' at this point. thanks for the compliments on me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

madison: thanks for the compliments.. it's been a very stressful 11 days..

hobie cat: nope, i'm 16 right now http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif, so yes, 20 months. and no way in hell will i be caught at a show, or anywhere off the farm (other than to get him measured) with clyde in this condition, i'd be afraid someone would call the spca on me (although he is looking *MUCH* better)! i wanted something that'd be ready to show by june/july, when i get out of school, showing during the school year just doesn't work out for me. i think he'll be ready by july, that'll be 3 months, and hey, if he's not, guess i won't show! he really doesn't need tons of schooling, yes, he needs muscle/weight. but he knows what he's doing as far as riding goes.. it's not like he has to be re-trained, otherwise i wouldn't be buying him. when i'm 18, i'll be graduating and going to college, and i'm not planning on showing then. after that, i may get a horse, most likely not, because i like riding ponies, and as i said, i'm really not that into showing anyway. yes, i enjoy it, but i won't be showing constantly.

oldfogy: she doesn't seem to be too worried now about clyde's problems.. esp. since the xrays have come back clear of any problems (other than the obvious clubbed feet). and as i said, she has school ponies that are in their teens with clubbed feet that are going as sound as ever (used in about a lesson a day, some used just 3 times a week), without any supplements, barefoot, etc. they're fine. and if you know my trainer, you know that she doesn't believe in 'pounding them into the ground' so to speak. i did an hour lesson a week with gunner, and for 45min. all we did was flat work, then the last 15 we would jump at the most a few lines, and *maybe* a course, if it was needed (with gunner, it normally wasn't). so it's not like he will be getting his legs jumped off, at the most i jump 2-3 times a week, flatwork the rest of the time.

sonotadq: i was considering leasing, but i decided it wasn't for me. i want to be able to bond closely with a pony (which is one reason i sold gunner, we just did NOT click), and i would always have in the back of my mind 'he/she's not mine, they'll get him/her back one day', i just couldn't do it.
i personally do not want a horse at all. tim (my arab) was 15hh, and i felt too small on him. i've ridden smaller horses, and to be honest, i just really don't like the feel of horses.. maybe i'm weird, i don't know.. but i have a feeling i'll be on ponies forever http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

pwynnorman: exactly.. personally, i think he's worth more than alot of people on here are saying. but that's why i posted originally, i wanted all of your opinions, because i do know that most people on here are very knowledgable, more than me i know! some of you would only pay $2500 for him, others would pay $8,000, and i've gotten a few emails from people saying that they would pay what i'm paying, because he looks like he will be very nice once he gains the weight (these are the people that have told me their stories about ponies/horses of theirs that have failed flexions, had clubbed feet, etc., that went on to have successful show careers, perfectly sound, etc.). just depends on the person, as to what they will spend on that 'special' pony.

samiam: my trainer is wonderful. i have known her my whole riding career (12yrs.), and have stuck with her through thick & thin (moving barns, etc.). i know that in this condition, to some he's not worth 20k. but he grows on you. you watch him move in the field, and it's gorgeous. you watch him jump, equally gorgeous. the only thing that's holding him back right now is his weight. he is dead sound (other than the positive flexions, i know), and none of his conformation flaws seem to bother him at all (which was, as i said, very surprising to the vet).
his surgery was to correct the clubbed foot, so i'm not worried about that. our vet said that it's probably done him alot of good.
we haven't payed the price yet, but yes, we are planning to, as long as he measures. i really don't think the price is inflated, but that's because i've seen him in person, and been around him for 11 days now. i really think he's a nice pony, whether or not you all would pay his price, is up to you all to decide http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.
my trainer's not really.. rationalizing anything. she came right out and said he had clubbed feet the day i tried him, but he is sound, and has clear xrays, so right now, nothing is wrong with him other than that (and the weight). other than that, there aren't alot of other things that need to be rationalized. she told us they had basically nothing on him, we knew that going into this, and it hasn't really bothered us too much. yes, it would be nice to have a proven show record, but really, how is that going to help me? ok, i will know that he has won things in the past, but other than that, it's not too important. yes, it would be nice to have papers, but again, what's that going to do? it'd be nice to know his real birthday, but i can just make one up. it'd be nice to know who his sire/dam were.. but he's a gelding, it's not like he's going to be bred. so really, his lack of history isn't that big of a problem to me (sorry, i know you really didn't ask about this, but since i started typing i had to finish it).
yes, i trust my trainer's judgement. otherwise, she wouldn't be my trainer. i've seen her find too many 'diamond in the rough' ponies, and turn them into safe, sound, bompproof school/show ponies not to trust her. no, i didn't get burned with my first pony. my first pony was a little 13.2hh paint pony that i bought from my trainer, and i had him for 4 1/2yrs. second was my arab, who i bought from someone else, 3rd was gunsmoke, who i bought under another trainer's recomendation, and 4th is, well could be, clyde. i've never been burned http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif. and i'm not planning on trainer shopping anytime soon, i love my trainer http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

rodeohunter: if clyde breaks down in a year or two, yes, i'll be upset, but i'm not going to be dieing because of it. we are planning on keeping this pony (whatever pony i do end up getting) for life, so if he does break down, he doesn't have to worry about going anywhere. again, ANY horse can break down. we have a horse at our farm now that passed her vetting with flying colors, and is now on stall rest for 3 months, and is no longer allowed to do any jumping. so really.. any horse can go lame, no matter how sound they *were*. yeah, clyde could go lame in a few years, but then again, he could stay sound forever. it's a risk, but i think it's worth it.
i never knew this thread would turn into what it has! it's very informative for people looking into buying though http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. i know i've learned alot.

findeight: actually, after calling quite a few 'brokers', or whatever you want to call them, quite a few told me that they do have clients that wish to remain anonymous. so yes, they could just be saying this, but then again, the owners really might not want to be contacted. like i said, my dad knows they're making money from this, but it's really not bothering him, if it was (he has told me), he wouldn't be buying clyde.

old a/o: my parents are wonderful http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif, sticking through 12yrs. of riding.. they're saints. i *know* what i want in a pony, trust me, i have a huge list of wants, and clyde is every last one of them. yes, he has clubbed feet.. and he's skinny (which isn't an issue for me, since that CAN be fixed easily).. but other than that, he is the perfect pony for me. i have been looking at other ponies out there, trust me http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. and clyde is the first pony my trainer has brought to me that has worked. i have found others by myself, but none have worked out, like i said.. so i don't know.. maybe i will be second guessing myself in a year or so, but i highly doubt it.


wow.. so many replies! anyway, the vet came out to xray his naviculars today, and again he was an angel. she told me she'd be calling tonight, so i'll post when i get those results.

i took some new pictures of him today.. to me he's looking MUCH improved.. but maybe that's wishful thinking..? clyde's updated pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/127289708EgNYYo/1), it should take you to the second page, but if not, the updated ones are on page 2. open up one of the older ones, and a new one, and see the difference for yourself. i think it's mainly his coat that has improved.. maybe a little weight/muscle gain? he has a cut on his blaze too, btw.. playing hard out in the field i guess http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. anyway, i'll post when the xrays come back.. right now i'm on vhsa looking for recognized shows near us to take him to get him measured!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

EqTrainer
Apr. 1, 2004, 05:53 PM
Sounds like you are 100% ok with whatever happens, and that is what matters http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hoping to hear only good news about his navicular films and, shortly thereafter, that you have bought a pony!

BybeeGirl
Apr. 1, 2004, 05:54 PM
If I ever thought for a fleeting moment about paying 20K for any animal with this history I would be divorced and disowned in a heartbeat. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My question is this. Once you age out of ponies in 20 months, then what?
Is there really anyone standing in line to buy a 10 year old pony with unknown history with clubbed feet for anything near what you're about to put into him? Judging just by the replies here, I think not.

I didn't know that "local" show horses had come to this price bracket. Makes me wonder what some of our horses are worth right now. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Let me know what his breeding is if you ever find out. I'd love to know what threw the odd blaze that runs off the side of his face.

http://www.geocities.com/kimrmayo

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 06:00 PM
haha bybee girl.. this is why i'm lucky to be a kid, and unmarried http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

after i reach the end of my junior year, i'm planning on keeping clyde. i may buy another horse (as in a real horse), but who knows.

trust me, 'local' ponies are here can go for ALOT.

i will definitaly let everyone here know if i find out any more about his breeding.. his blaze is very neat http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

i just posted some before/after pics (i put one of the old, one of the new, next to each other, so it's easier to see the changes) on my album, but they won't be up for another 30min. probably. but they're alot easier to compare http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. anyway.. i'm waiting by the phone for the xray results.. i hope she does call tonight and not tomorrow.. i don't know if i can wait til then!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

DutchOwner
Apr. 1, 2004, 06:06 PM
Ok, so...I admit I haven't read this whole thread, and if someone else suggested this, please excuse me... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I know you said you didn't want to lease, but how about leasing *this* horse? There are many people who lease to buy...you take the horse on a lease of a designated amount of time (with a *good* contract of course), at the end of which you have the option of buying the horse, and all or part of the money you put down on the lease goes towards the purchase price.

By that time, he will have more weight, you will have a better idea of his soundness, you will have had a chance to bond and get to know eachother, ride him in a few shows (after he gets in shape of course), and, just in case anything goes wrong, you have the option of opting out while the owners get a horse back in better condition, and some cash for the lease. Win win situation... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"The 21 yr old Equestrienne with 22 yrs of experience who gets stoned and longes young warmbloods and then jumps them with no helmet."

Official mucker, picker, groomer, treat distributor, scratcher, wrapper, and servant to Sly, Aussie, Sesica, and Bristol.

Proud Member of the Elite Four Member Alaska Clique!!

OLD A/O
Apr. 1, 2004, 06:10 PM
Good luck on your purchase!!!!

It sounds like you really need this pony. Who knows maybe this pony will be a champ and you will increase your investment not only money but in love and fun!!!!

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:00 PM
leasing clyde wouldn't be a bad idea, but i'm not sure if his owners would allow it.. seems to me like they want him sold.. but who knows, i'll ask about that.

i think the vet will call tomorrow http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif.. oh well, i'll just have to wait another day!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:02 PM
oh btw, the compare/contrast pictures are up now http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

creseida
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:06 PM
Well diffuse, I know what you mean about falling in love with a face or a horse.

I've been looking for my new horse for at least a year. I don't quite have the funds available to me that you do, but I can definitely look for a really nice prospect.

10 days ago, I tried one out. A coming 5 year old 16.3+ chestnut mare, adorable face, registered, very well bred with proof of her bloodlines (grandsire was the Hanoverian, Eros, dam goes back to a Derby & Preakness Winner), nice conformation, going beautifully on the flat, started the way I would start a horse, and recently introduced to jumps, and jumping 2'6". Temperament TO DIE FOR.

The first time I tried this mare, it was 40 degrees and windy as Hell (you're in VA, think back to that cold windy period we had a week ago). Aside from being blown sideways and not being able to jump anything higher than 18" because of the wind, this mare was Perfect. This is The Mare I've been looking for for a year.

I received a call from the vet 1.5 hours ago. She has arthritis in her coffin bones and significant navicular changes. She will never stay sound for my chosen discipline of jumpers. I could buy her now and "hope for the best", but common sense tells me if I do, I will have a horse that will be a pasture ornament in 4 years or less. Once again, I'm forced to pass on my dream horse and continue looking.

I hope your x-rays turn out better than mine did, because I know what a bummer it is to have your heart and mind set on the one you want. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif I hope Clyde works out for you.

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

[This message was edited by creseida on Apr. 01, 2004 at 11:24 PM.]

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 07:51 PM
creseida: that's too bad about the mare :/. the reason i'm relieved with clyde is because his xrays have shown nothing (other than the navicular ones, which we haven't gotten the results on yet).

also, i just wanted to clarify something i may or may have not said/inferred. if i didn't say anything to make you all think this, oh well, i'm just getting it out now, if i have, this will explain.
in no way do i think that cindy is holding out any info. on clyde to us. she has been *very* helpful, giving us what little info. she has on him. also, as soon as we got to her farm, she apologized to us for clyde's condition, but he had only gotten there the morning we arrived, there's only so much you can do in 8+ hours. she told me she was horrified when she got him off the trailer (the people that let him get this way brought him over), and she had no idea he was in this condition. but she knows he has potential, as do i, which is why his price is what it is, i'm guessing.

anyway, i just wanted to clarify that http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.. didn't want anyone to think i was bad-mouthing anyone on here http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif.

edited to add, oldfogy, check your pts http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Perfect Pony
Apr. 1, 2004, 08:11 PM
Kady,
Thanks for posting the updated pics. After thinking about this whole situation for a while, I think your parents must be saints http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I can't relate to having that much money myself that I could just spend it on a questionable pony, but this IS a cute pony, you obviously love him, you are obviously a brilliant and wonderful teenager, and your parents must care about you and the pony enough to be okay for paying that price for him.

As an animal lover, thank God this pony will have the home he deserves. We have all gone around and around on this, but I am finally at the place were I am just happy that little Clyde will get the food and love ALL ponies deserve from their owners. Hell, look at what people pay for a dress or a watch or a peice of jewery or even a bottle of wine! Here is an animal who is being offered a better life with an owner who loves him, and he seems to be just fine for what you want. It's only money!

Please keep us updated on his progress Katy. He does have a lovely face and eye, and I personally DO see what you see in him - no matter what he may be *technically* worth or not, Good luck.

"Dan the Man" (http://community.webshots.com/user/kalitude)

diffuse01
Apr. 1, 2004, 08:29 PM
thanks porcelain pony, my parents are saints haha. they're great http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif. i do love him too, just watching him eat carrots today mad my heart melt. he takes them so gently, but you can tell he's thinking 'whoa.. haven't had one of THESE for awhile!'

and if i do buy him (which has NOT happened yet, still have to get those navicular xrays cleared, and then he has to get that perm. card!), you can bet he'll be a spoiled rotten little thing http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, i think he deserves it http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

that's a good term.. what he's 'technically' worth haha.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Lord Helpus
Apr. 1, 2004, 09:01 PM
Diffuse,

I admire you and think that you are far more mature than a lot of people who are many years older than you are. I know I could not have been as unfailingly polite and yet sure of myself.

You have answered all of our points time and again without getting angry or defensive.

Bottom line: you have considered our objections and you still want this pony.

Hey, we are not you. You have made a believer out of me. Perhaps this pony could be gotten cheaper. But as someone said, a horse is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

And Clyde is the pony you want. Your dad is financially able to buy him. At least from me: 'nuff said.

I hope you have many enjoyable years with him and are able to proudly post your successes (and also share the normal frustrations that come with getting to know a new horse).

I really think that we all just wanted you to be happy. And you are.

From here on in, I am in your corner.

You go, girl!

PS: He looks incredible after only 11 days. You wanna come to Ky and curry George?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Oh yeah, I'll bet you're fat and can't ride!" --- Erin, Chief Cathearder. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ChagrinSaddlery
Apr. 1, 2004, 10:00 PM
Kady,

I hope you didn't take offense at my post.

I just want to wish you the best in whatever you decide. It sounds like you have thought things through. I hope it works out for you.

Best wishes,

Dana

Don't just appear in life, STAR in it!

http://community.webshots.com/album/95482669jtPjKw?504

Little Indian
Apr. 1, 2004, 10:02 PM
i am the same age and height as you and you know you only have one more year showing on this pony, yes? so why not get a prostpect (a really nice one) or a horse that has been around (i know sombody at my barn just got a Hanoverian who litterly traveled the world and has done everything from FEI show jumping to FEI Dressage...his name is Get Real). you can find those ANYWHERE if you look hard enough. i think they got Getty for less than 8 and he is doing the 3' still. why not move up to a horse? get something in the 15.3/16 hand range with longer legs and a barrel that fits your legs. I know ponies are fun, but why not move up and challenge yourself?
I also want to add, we found Indy in a top breeder and show barn (int he country when it comes to andalusians). at 3 years old with 60 days under saddle and couring 1'6 Xs he was 2,500 dollars. He was int he top 3 two years in a row at Andalusian Nationals in the half andalusian weanling nad yearling halter division. Why was he priced so cheap? at 3 years old he was 13.3 hands and now at 9 has his perm. card at 14.1 7/8! And now, even though we paid a VERY VERY VERY pretty penny for Gomez, I will never again buy a horse off of a video. We got SO INCREDIBLY lucky with him it's unbeliveable, i didn't even try him out. But even with him in Germany, we were STILL able to talk to the owners of the horse even though he was at a consignment type barn. nobody has brought this up, but i really really really do not think that you have any concept on how much 20,000 really is. LOOK, you will find horses that you will LOVE, but you have a rescue case here that you are putting time and money into and the owners want 20 for him, that to me is sickening and makes me want to bang my head on the desk and shake you and say "NO!" you can get a rescue case nicer than this one. i am done now
Hali
(whomever is downloading from my album...STOP PLEASE!)
http://community.webshots.com/user/littleindian94
Triton (Gralshüter x Gomessa)
Brindaro (Banbury Errol x Mendul)
Viper Too (Blushing Bug x Surely Humble)

[This message was edited by Little Indian on Apr. 02, 2004 at 01:30 AM.]

levremont
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:21 AM
Am I the only one who sees something VERY wrong with someone posting pictures, price, names and vetting results...as well as the amount of discussion from many people who may and in many cases may not know much about vetting, the pony/show market etc...on a pony that you do not own...
I am sorry but I find this a very "rude" thing to do on a pony that you do not own. I know that diffuse probably had no idea it would go on this long...be to me this thread should have been locked a long time ago. Once this pony is yours, talk all you want about anything you want...but if this was my pony as a seller I would be extremely mad about this kind of situation. I wonder what your trainer would think about this thread?

visit us at www.levremont.com (http://www.levremont.com)

diffuse01
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:47 AM
i haven't mentioned any last names, any farm names, etc., i've been very careful not to do so.
i've seen many people post here their results of a vetting, good or bad, and also posting prospective horse pictures on here for critiqueing (sp?). so no, i don't see anything wrong with this. ANYONE that sees clyde that knows about conformation, etc., will see his clubbed feet, and how straight he is up front, so i don't think it should be hidden.

and i am planning on buying him, once we get him his perm. card. my trainer knows i've been on here discussing him, she has no problem with me getting everyone else's opinions on him.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

BelladonnaLily
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:50 AM
Levremont...no one knows who the seller or the pony is. Not even the buyer. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It might be different if names were given. She just wanted some advice on buying this pony. She's received much of it, although she's followed little of it. I don't see the problem with this thread.

SoNotaDQ
Apr. 2, 2004, 07:17 AM
I don't think buying the pony is the wrong answer. I think buying it without speaking to the owner is.

I think the selling agent is rooking you hard. I would venture to bet that the owner has no idea what shape their pony is in.

Is there anything that this selling agent has told you that you can prove? That can be backed up with fact? Or that they just said so?

Even if I was as busy as I have ever been, I would be fine with a legitimate buyer speaking to me about my sale horses. I think agents are retained like realtors. People don't want to deal with the showing, bartering, tire kickers. You are a serious buyer. There is no reason the seller would have to not speak to you before you gave a check

Don't you think it is fair to the seller??? They may have no idea what has happened with their pony? What if it is stolen??? If that is the case, you could spend 20k and then have no pony when the legitimate owner came and got it. You would then have to *try* and get your money from the agent.

Did this pony even have a coggins??

I think people are very concerned for *you* and your purchase. The horse world can be shady, money can really corrupt. Or lack of money can corrupt.

I still urge you to have your parents read this thread. In horses, do like the X-files. Trust no one!!! The truth is out there!!

bayknight
Apr. 2, 2004, 07:24 AM
hi diffuse,
I haven't posted here yet, have just been reading the postings, back and forth, Well I just saw the new pics of Clyde- and wow he looks great after only 11 days!
I wish the best of luck if are able to keep him! I just got a new mare myself after selling my gelding and she is a little on the lean side as well, and loss of muscle- big time! I am anxious to see what she is going to look like after some training and plenty of the right food. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MTPOCKETS
Apr. 2, 2004, 08:02 AM
I have been reading the postings back and forth for a long time now and have held out posting for fear of getting creamed. I have a different story for you. I bought a horse on pure emotional impulse about 1 1/2 years ago. He did not have the best of xrays and had learned some not so nice behaviors from his previous owners but I had fallen in love with him. He was rather pricey for me but my husband knew haw attached I wa and helped me purchase him. In the end he is the best horse I have ever owned. I love him more every day and plan to keep him as long as I possibly can. I am taking some time off from showing to finish up school but when I do start to show again I think he will be just what I need.

I know many people will attack me for saying anything in the positive for her purchasing this skinny expensive pony but I just wanted to say that all irrational purchases made from the heart do not go bad. There are some happy endings!!!

Bumpkin
Apr. 2, 2004, 08:03 AM
Little Indian, that was very well said. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

shmon
Apr. 2, 2004, 08:05 AM
Kady, I can see you've got your mind made up.

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying Clyde. He's cute, and you obviously love him.

I DO think there's a problem with spending $20,000 on Clyde.

And that's all I'll say about that http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

------------------------------
"These are my principles. If you do not like them, I have others." --Groucho Marx

nycjumper
Apr. 2, 2004, 08:27 AM
Clyde looks great & I do think that you have your mind made up - good for you. I am nothing but supportive.

I would however demand to see what commissions are being paid out & how much of the 20K is going to the owner BEFORE you buy him. Make it a condition of the sale. You have every right to know.

RodeoHunter
Apr. 2, 2004, 08:56 AM
He looks great in those after pics. What a cutie, I can see why you're fallen for him! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

**Member of the Ocularly Challenged Equine Support Group**

b328
Apr. 2, 2004, 11:03 AM
Diffuse, you may want to ask for the seller's name to write the check to the seller, and then write any commission checks separately. I only say this because it is true, the seller may have no idea what is going on, so it would be more fair to the owner. I have heard/ seen many unfortunate stories about agents, where they either let fancy horses get run down, or they inflate prices. Either way, the agent keeps making money because they are paid to board the horse, plus they get commissions.

diffuse01
Apr. 2, 2004, 03:48 PM
hey all, just got home from the barn. our farrier came out today and trimmed clyde's feet. to his amazement, when he got to his back feet, he had a FRONT shoes on his back feet, that were one size too small! poor clyde http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

so needless to say he had to do alot of angle correction, in the front and back feet.. so clyde's a bit sore from it, but he should be feeling LOTS better (at least he has the RIGHT size shoe on now http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) in a day or so. i gave him some bute tonight, just to be sure he's not in any pain. anyway, enough of that.. some farriers.. hmpf.

i'll def. ask my trainer if i can get the name of the sellers, for check writing purposes.

right now, we're AGAIN waiting for the x-ray results. they did come take them again last night, but they were once again 'hazy'. so we had a different vet come out this morning (because the vet that did the pre-purchase was unavailible) and take them again before he got his feet done. our farrier said they may have no been good again, because of how bad his angles were on his feet. so *hopefully* the ones taken this morning will turn out, if not, we're hoping that since he was trimmed, etc. they'll turn out this time.

so i'm sitting by the phone once again.. waiting for those navicular results.

we're measuring him tomorrow with a certified usaeq stick, since the first show less than 4-4 1/2hrs. away from here is on apr. 15th. so we decided we're just going to measure him to see what he measures at, then put in the contract that before we pay the full amount, he MUST recieve a permenant card.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Hunter_Rider
Apr. 2, 2004, 04:34 PM
Just my 2 cents! I would ONLY give a small deposit pending passing the vet and a permanent card. If the seller has nothing to hide this is reasonable and customary. Also there is a show in Maryland next week. It is 4 1/2 hours away and starts on the 7th. I would do it as soon as possible. Good luck to you.

EqTrainer
Apr. 2, 2004, 04:46 PM
Front shoes on the back? Too small? Hairy, thin, overpriced horse, seems to have had a lot of training at some point? This is starting to sound *alarmingly* like a scenario we just went through a few weeks ago.

We just met the actual seller, who FREAKED OUT when she saw the condition the horse was in. Agent was in Virginia... Hmmmm... maybe I know where your pony came from, Diffuse. PT me if you want to hear the whole story.. but I understand if you don't!

diffuse01
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:03 PM
eqtrainer, i ptd you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

KrazyTBMare
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:30 PM
Diffuse, didnt mean to offend you. I said personally thats how I felt. This is totally your decision and if you want the pony and can see his faults and love him anyways, good for you. You have been very mature in your responses to each and every person on here, even if others havent done the same for you. You seem very grown up and I think whatever decision you make will be the best for you and for Clyde. Good luck with the new xrays.

Proud Member Of The Hot TB Mare, The Florida, & the Disgruntled College Student Clique

diffuse01
Apr. 2, 2004, 05:46 PM
just got a call from the vet.. no signs of navicular! whee!

i'm very excited now haha.. we'll be measuring him tomorrow, and after that, as long as he's a pony, he's mine! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

oldfogy
Apr. 2, 2004, 06:33 PM
diffuse ck your pts.

canadian eh?
Apr. 2, 2004, 06:46 PM
Diffuse... good luck with the pony, I hope it all works out for you and kudos again for how you handled yourself in this thread. You are a very polite and mature young lady.

*~* Not the sharpest crayon in the tool shed, are we? oh wait... *~*

diffuse01
Apr. 2, 2004, 06:48 PM
thanks http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. makes me feel good knowing you all think well of me http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif. i'll be sure to keep everyone updated on him. and i'll post tomorrow (as long as we can get the stick) once he's measured. you all will be seeing lots of 'before/after' pictures if i do buy him.. get ready http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Bugs-n-Frodo
Apr. 2, 2004, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KrazyTBMare:
You have been very mature in your responses to each and every person on here, even if others havent done the same for you.

Proud Member Of The Hot TB Mare, The Florida, & the Disgruntled College Student Clique
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am here from SHB forum and have been watching this thread for the past few days, I have not commented. I do, however, have to say that I agree 100% with KrazyTBMare. I have seen threads like this deteriorate so much because the OP gets very upset by the responses to the thread. (In some cases, I don't blame them.) You have handled this well. good luck with Clyde. If you buys him, be sure to post pics of him a few months from now when he is looking awsome from all of the love and care you've given him. BTW, I just have to see pics of his jump. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

************************************************** *
Amy
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) 1986 JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) 2003 ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)

Sing Mia Song
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:13 AM
Buy that dang pony, will you? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

I agree that you have been very levelheaded about what everyone has said. While the cautions you have received are certainly valid and well-intended, this is not necessarily an investment purchase for you. And the updated pictures show a significant improvement.

Sometimes you just gotta do what you feel is right. Yesterday, I adopted a pitbull who probably won't make it through the weekend. He has kidney disease which will probably be fatal, but he's a nice dog, and the owners couldn't afford to pursue treatment, so I offered to take him and put him on my tab. I may wind up spending a lot of money for a dead dog, but I don't consider it wasted if we take our best shot.

It may be the right decision or the wrong one, but life is all about learning from your mistakes. You obviously believe in this pony. Go with your gut.

***********************************************
A building contrator is defined as someone who wants to build a house in the woods. An environmentalist is one who already owns a house in the woods.

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:31 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif i'm heading out to the barn soon to measure him.. as long as he measures 14.2 or under he's miiine!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 05:09 PM
YAY! he measured 14.1 3/4 with his shoes on http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. he still measured under 14.2 even when he was standing more upright.. so an easy measure. and to think we were soo worried about him being over.

so anyway, he's mine now http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif all that's left is the paperwork.

i'm giving him off til monday, since he just got his shoes put on, and is a little sore from being barefoot for awhile. after that i'll be sure to take some pics of me on him, and hopefully (if i can get good ones) some of him jumping.

i'm so excited http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

WWCountry
Apr. 3, 2004, 05:23 PM
Congratulations and best of luck to you and Clyde! I hope he turns out to be everything you've hoped for and more. Keep us posted with your progress.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Apr. 3, 2004, 05:47 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

************************************************** *
Amy
Cute as a Bugsear (Bugs) 1986 JC OTTTB (Isella x Annie Somebody)
Pippen (Frodo) 2003 ATA Anglo Trakehner (Paramoure x Cute as a Bugsear)

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:09 PM
thanks http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif.. i have a question though.

as far as hoof supplements go.. which do you guys like best out of these choices (it's all the stuff smartpak has)?

4 in 1
BioFlax 20
Biotin II 22X
Biotin Plus
Biotin ZM - 80
Farrier's Magic
Focus HF
Glanzen 3
Glanzen GL
Grand Complete
Grand Hoof
HB 15
Horse-Shoe
Horseshoer's Secret
Joint Combo Hoof & Coat
Master's Hoof Blend (formerly HT 20)
Nu-Hoof Maximizer
Omega Horseshine
ReitSport
Shoer's Friend
Super Bio-Zin

jeesh.. sorry that was so long.. but anyway, which do you guys like? i want him on something good for his hooves http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif... and it'd be nice if it had something in there for the coat too.. since he obviously needs that.
i'm thinking of putting him on cosequin also, what do you guys think of that?

so lets see.. in his smartpak will be.. a joint supplement, hoof supplement, and something for his coat.. like a multi-vitamin or something (any suggestions on those??).

any suggestions for good supplements are appreciated http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

SoNotaDQ
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:15 PM
I have tried all the horsetech hoof products(which I LOVE that company) and my favorite is the bioflax 20. That is my horse's favorite also. I see a huge difference in hoof quality with it

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:16 PM
and it's not too expensive either, $12.99 for a 30 day supply.. not bad.. compared to the others at least!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:28 PM
ugh.. this is so confusing lol.. some of these supplements (like glanzen 3) are said to be for hooves/coat.. so maybe i should just do that? then the glazen gl is recomended for hoof/coat/joints.. wow. so.. i'm confused now as to what to get. i've always felt that cosequin was the best, but that's mainly because most of the horses i've been around have been on that.. hmm.

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

BelladonnaLily
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:54 PM
IMO, good nutrition SHOULD take care of many of his appearance problems. I'd try just good basic nutrition before you get too happy with the supplements. Every vet and farrier I've ever used has said in most cases, they are a waste of time and money and basically just make the owner feel like they are doing something good for their horse. Good feed, proper worming, etc. will probably work miracles considering the shape he came to you in.

Good luck! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tomboy
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:54 PM
Congrats! Ive been watching from the sidelines, but just wanted to say congrats! he's a cutie.

Its not gravity that hurts, its the earth's aceleration upwards at 9.8 m/s^2. Gravity is an illusion, lunch time doubly so
Es de mi (http://community.webshots.com/user/ash314271)

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 06:56 PM
thanks tomboy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i think i need to have that feeling of goodness for him belladonna http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.. we were told cosequin by our vet, but i've been looking at ingrediants of some others.. and they sound really good as well.. so i'm overwhelmed http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:25 PM
oh and btw, i'm keeping clyde as his name http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

but now i need a new show name.. i do NOT like the diplomat.. any ideas?

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

Medievalist
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:33 PM
I know, I know!!!!!

Call him:

Clydle Dice!!!!!!!!
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Centre Equestre de la Houssaye (http://www.eii.fr/club/houssaye)

cbv
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:34 PM
How about the name 'Best Wishes', since I am sure that is what everyone that has been following this thread is sending to you and Clyde!

Best wishes to you both and congratulations!

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:42 PM
best wishes is cute http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i was trying to think of something having to do with not being 'perfect'.. you know.. since he's not (conformation wise, everything else is, of course http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif).. thinking.. thinking.. and these supplements are so overwhelming!

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

HopelessHunter
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:56 PM
Congratulations on your new pony! I have been following this thread, just haven't been posting.

I am so glad that you kept Clyde as his name, as it is really cute!

I don't know much about his personality, but I really like the name 'Southern Gentleman' for a gelding. If that doesn't suit your liking, how about Bon Prix? That is french for 'Handsome Prince' and If I am correct, you would pronounce it as it looks, with the Prix sounding like PREE. Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Good luck! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"This it be die most importante thing in die world, that someone they loff us." -Willem

diffuse01
Apr. 3, 2004, 07:58 PM
thats really cute hopelesshunter, i really like southern gentleman.. that's what we call him around the barn 'the gentleman'.. b/c he is very well-mannered http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

creseida
Apr. 3, 2004, 08:34 PM
King of Clubs?

BTW, *Congratulations!* http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

~&lt;&gt;~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~&lt;&gt;~
~Member of the *Horse Vans* clique~

"Learn the rules so you may break them effectively"~Dalai Lama

canadian eh?
Apr. 3, 2004, 09:24 PM
I love Best Wishes... sooo cute.

Good luck with him, I hope you guys kick some butt this year http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*~* Not the sharpest crayon in the tool shed, are we? oh wait... *~*

Little Indian
Apr. 3, 2004, 09:55 PM
we use Bioten ZM-80 for Indy and Gomez. they get two scoops per day

Hali
(whomever is downloading from my album...STOP PLEASE!)
http://community.webshots.com/user/littleindian94
Triton (Gralshüter x Gomessa)
Brindaro (Banbury Errol x Mendul)
Viper Too (Blushing Bug x Surely Humble)

EqTrainer
Apr. 3, 2004, 10:01 PM
Picture Perfect
Almost Perfect
Perfectly Mine
Perfect Partner
Perfect PoPo &lt;LOL&gt;
Perfect Prince
Perfectly Fine
Perfectly Dressed
Perfect Gentleman
Always Perfect (could be a "asking for trouble" name, certainly he would find this an invitation to prove you wrong)


But if he were mine, I would call him

At Last

Vandy
Apr. 3, 2004, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by creseida:
King of Clubs?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif
Congratulations Kady! Here's hoping you have many happy years together http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Little Indian
Apr. 3, 2004, 11:05 PM
Against All Odds.... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Hali
(whomever is downloading from my album...STOP PLEASE!)
http://community.webshots.com/user/littleindian94
Triton (Gralshüter x Gomessa)
Brindaro (Banbury Errol x Mendul)
Viper Too (Blushing Bug x Surely Humble)

Jessi P
Apr. 4, 2004, 03:55 AM
When I was showing hunters there was a gal in our barn who had a very nice hunter (won locals at Hbg) named Southern Gentleman, barn name was Mr Lee. He was a neat gray.

Tomboy
Apr. 4, 2004, 08:24 AM
Nearly There?
meaing he's nearly perfect
Eh, weak i know but the best i can do so early. My mind is just no waking up. I do love best wishes though

“If you're coming with me you need nerves of steel Cause I take corners on two wheels/ It's a never-ending circus ride/ The faint of heart need not apply”
- Pam Tillis
Es de mi (http://community.webshots.com/user/ash314271)

DMK
Apr. 4, 2004, 08:37 AM
Kady, you will probably get a better response if you ask your supplement question on Horse Care, but the quick answer on Cosequin is that is probably your best choice. It has th emost research behind it, and has been proven to work. This is not to say the other stuff doesn't work, but they can't make as solid of a case for their product as cosequin can.

Congratulations on your new pony - he looks quite nice, and after he gets some weight on him, if he trucks around only half as nice as you described, he will still probably be a bargain! (If only it was as easy to put on a nice jump and a great attitude as it is to put on weight, great ponies would be a dime a dozen!)

I've reached the conclusion that some folks keep it black & white in order to avoid engaging the gray matter...

Nauset
Apr. 4, 2004, 08:44 AM
Not Quite Perfect

Okay By Me (I love this one and I think it suits the situation, because despite his flaws you still loff him!)

Hmm... that's all I got for now. Good luck, let us know what you choose!!

*Member- Blonde Clique, Colorful Helmets Clique, New England Clique*

Pictures! (http://community.webshots.com/user/samtb056)

diffuse01
Apr. 4, 2004, 08:53 AM
i posted a new topic on the horse care forum asking about supplements http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif.

anyway, some of these show names are great. i really like okay by me & at last.. and against all odds.. and nearly there http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
i'll have to sit down with some of my friends to see if we can come up with any others http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-kady-
-my webshots album (http://community.webshots.com/user/diffuse01)-
-diffusion, my pet site (http://www.diffuse01.cjb.net)-

RodeoHunter
Apr. 4, 2004, 09:30 AM
Congratulations!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like Best Wishes, Okay By Me (that is adorable) and Against All Odds.

**Member of the Ocularly Challenged Equine Support Group**

BOSS Mare
Apr. 4, 2004, 09:38 AM
"Perfect Timing"

~We all rise, We all fall....Get up and get over it ~

~~AIM-BossMare~~

Gonna parteee like it's MY birthday~~~~ (kind of) 50 cent