I have a mare!!! Let's breed me an Olympic jumper!!!

[Lord Helpus]

My recent miscellaneouns questions and stallions searches have been hit or miss because I have been unable to tell you all about the mare I was trying to find a mate for because I had not yet bought her.

Well, I can finally announce that I am the very proud owner of a broodmare who is looking for a stallion, and I want to find an exceptional one for her. My new girl is by Perrel (http://www.wariotofarminc.com/perrel.html) and out of the wonderful and amazing Touch of CLass (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Stillaspill&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Because of my prior association with Isabella's mother, I am thrilled beyond words to have her here. When she arrived this morning, seeing her head clear the door of the van, it was like welcoming Touch of Class home. I got chills down my spine, especially since today was the 3rd anniversary of TOC's death.

I was able to buy her because Rebecca (I will not post her last name since I am not sure she would want me to) -- and I have forgotten her screen name, but I am hoping that she will join this thread and identify herself --- decided to lease her out and I twisted her arm and convinced her to sell Bella to me. Sad as Rebecca is, it feels like Bella has come home, and she will never leave.

So! Now that she is here, she needs to get bred. I will only consider ET this summer since I do not want to lose a year by having her carry a foal now and not be able to breed her next winter. There is also the minor fact that she seems to be sound after injuring herself as a 4 year old and so a show ring career might still be in her future since she is only 7 now. If so, then ET is the way she will go until her jumping years are over.

Requirements for my girl:

Must be an incredible jumper who comes from quality jumper blood and has already produced quality jumpers (TOC was, of course an incredible jumper, but Bella has not yet proven herself and Perrel is best known as a hunter or mid level jumper, so I do not want to compromise on the sire's jumping ability, although I do expect Bella to at least hold up her side of the equation.

Must have good conformation with substantial bone (Bella is 16.2 and has a massive heartgirth with a great shoulder, but her legs are the fine boned legs of a TB and she does not have the strongest hind leg -- so the sire needs to help her out here)

Bella has the finest of temperaments and is intelligent and a lovely mover (as was TOC).

So I guess superb jumping genes/abilty and good bone with a strong hind leg are it.

Perrel is a Selle Francais and, of course TOC was a TB. I do not care what breed the stallion is. The foal can always be registered as something. I am not into one breed v. another. I am into getting the best horse I can.

OK. Where do we start?

[Lord Helpus]

My recent miscellaneouns questions and stallions searches have been hit or miss because I have been unable to tell you all about the mare I was trying to find a mate for because I had not yet bought her.

Well, I can finally announce that I am the very proud owner of a broodmare who is looking for a stallion, and I want to find an exceptional one for her. My new girl is by Perrel (http://www.wariotofarminc.com/perrel.html) and out of the wonderful and amazing Touch of CLass (http://www.pedigreequery.com/index.php?query_type=check&search_bar=horse&h=Stillaspill&g=5&inbred=Standard&x2=n)

Because of my prior association with Isabella's mother, I am thrilled beyond words to have her here. When she arrived this morning, seeing her head clear the door of the van, it was like welcoming Touch of Class home. I got chills down my spine, especially since today was the 3rd anniversary of TOC's death.

I was able to buy her because Rebecca (I will not post her last name since I am not sure she would want me to) -- and I have forgotten her screen name, but I am hoping that she will join this thread and identify herself --- decided to lease her out and I twisted her arm and convinced her to sell Bella to me. Sad as Rebecca is, it feels like Bella has come home, and she will never leave.

So! Now that she is here, she needs to get bred. I will only consider ET this summer since I do not want to lose a year by having her carry a foal now and not be able to breed her next winter. There is also the minor fact that she seems to be sound after injuring herself as a 4 year old and so a show ring career might still be in her future since she is only 7 now. If so, then ET is the way she will go until her jumping years are over.

Requirements for my girl:

Must be an incredible jumper who comes from quality jumper blood and has already produced quality jumpers (TOC was, of course an incredible jumper, but Bella has not yet proven herself and Perrel is best known as a hunter or mid level jumper, so I do not want to compromise on the sire's jumping ability, although I do expect Bella to at least hold up her side of the equation.

Must have good conformation with substantial bone (Bella is 16.2 and has a massive heartgirth with a great shoulder, but her legs are the fine boned legs of a TB and she does not have the strongest hind leg -- so the sire needs to help her out here)

Bella has the finest of temperaments and is intelligent and a lovely mover (as was TOC).

So I guess superb jumping genes/abilty and good bone with a strong hind leg are it.

Perrel is a Selle Francais and, of course TOC was a TB. I do not care what breed the stallion is. The foal can always be registered as something. I am not into one breed v. another. I am into getting the best horse I can.

OK. Where do we start?

[Ainsley]

I'm sure others here will be able to give you excellent suggestions on stallion choices for your mare, but let me be the first to congratulate you on your wonderful purchase! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Your new mare sounds lovely and I really like her breeding. I have always loved Perrel.

I am a bit biased when it comes to jumper stallions, but I would certainly consider Rio Grande ( I have a particular soft spot for this guy http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). Proven performer and producer of well built horses with as big a jump as a kangaroo.

Anyway, congratulations again and best of luck!!

Jennifer

[Draygonfyne]

What about Rio Grande, Elute or Rafiki Nzuri?

Congratulations....you must be thrilled! She sounds fabulous and I wish you the best in the years to come!

[YankeeLawyer]

Hi LH--
Congratulations on your new mare! She sounds brilliant.
I would recommend Galoubet (by Alme), but I am not sure how helpful that suggestion is because (a) I am not sure how ET works exactly (i.e., can they use frozen for that?) and (b) I am not sure if anyone still has any frozen from Galoubet left. Try calling Hamilton Farm, if you are interested in him.

Quick Star, a Galoubet son, is also amazing. If you do a google search you should be able to find him.

My family bred some jumpers years ago and we always had great success with the Alme line. They do have great bone and they can jump the moon.
Are you planning to keep all of these superb foals? Let me know if any of them would like a nice home in VA http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good luck!
VHC

[Paula]

I would take a good look at Liostro - the last stallion son of the late Lady Killer. He has produced something like seven stallion sons, many premium mares, and many grand prix jumpers including Sapphire and Liocalyon. He also puts fantastic movement on the foals. And for what it's worth most of his foals are loud sabinos with high whites all around and big blazes. He has a great temperament as do his offspring.

[Galileo1998]

Either Pablo or Fuerst Gottard both seem like they would fit your requirements, with the added advantage that they are owned by Edgar who is a joy to deal with http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

[Hattie]

LHU - I feel related to you now since my Hattie is by Perrel! I find Mezcalero very interesting. He is by Voltaire and has quite a successful international jumping record. He is at Rocky Mountain Warmbloods. You just can't seem to go wrong with a Voltaire.

Congrats!

[nhwr]

Wow, did you ever score, LH! If you don't mind line breeding (Ibrahim) I would still be tempted to try Calvados! Another stallion that come to mind is Ulft. He is available by frozen, I think. Try here here (http://www.studbook.com/sl/ulft.html).

Are you going to breed her this year? Let us know what you decide. I am really excited about this and I am a dressage rider. But I saw ToC at the '84 Olympics and I will never forget her. It is sooo cool that you have this part of her http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Congrats.

[HSGFarms]

Do you prefer Fresh or frozen semen? If frozen you should look at Indoctro or Corland ( www.majesticgaits.com (http://www.majesticgaits.com) )or Concorde (www.team-nijhof.nl (http://www.team-nijhof.nl)) all have great jumping lines and offspring at the top levels. GoodLuck in your search! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[WhatzUp]

Talk to Lorrie at <span class="ev_code_RED">www.kvf.ca </span> as she
has 4 FABULOUS stallions that fit
what you are looking for and is also
an agent for semen from the Nijofs
stallions (www.team-nijhof.nl (http://www.team-nijhof.nl)).

Also, Klondike Victory Farm stands Tacorde
(Concorde x Goodtimes x Damiro x Aktion)
an outstanding imported 4 yr. old KWPN son
of Concorde.

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[Toadie's mom]

LH....I have no input as far as a stallion choice, I just want to say CONGRATULATIONS!!!
I was a big fan of TOC. Post a pic. of your mare!

[little twist]

Is Galoubet A still alive? If not him, how about Baloubet du Roulet? Or Heisman? Or Oh Star?

Congrats on your Mare!!! She sounds fantastic!

[Silly Mommy]

Dang!!! If you're only doing ET, when you harvest eggs, do you mind sending me a couple to mix with a Yak swim team.

In September...

When he goes to Cornell for sex school??? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif


Congrats, I am jealous!!!

[Anna M]

Iroko - Keur Dutch Stallion who has consistently been in the top ten listings for all Dutch Jumper sires in the world; he is in the US for the rest of this year:
http://personal.monad.net/~ctolman/


or

Aram - deceased Dutch stallion who sired the Olympic Gold Medalist De Sjiem:
http://www.majesticgaits.com/ Check out the frozen semen page on the Majestic Gaits site.

Also, more information about Aram is on this website:
http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/nevadapedigree.html

[Bentley]

Just wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What a wonderful mare to have.

All the best,

Alixe

[hunt_jump]

Wow what a purchase ... Big Congratulations LH!!!!

[gillenwaterfarm]

From the description of your mare, Baloubet de Rouet would be my first choice for your mare.

Because Baloubet is a fully approved SF stallion, he slightly edges out my second choice, the ISH stallion Cruising (http://shelbournefarm.com/h_cruising.html), although I believe Cruising is also approved SF, when crossed on SF approved mares.

Good luck, and we want pictures of Bella!

[Robby Johnson]

Wow! Congratulations LHU! I'm going to have to come play at your house the next time I'm in Lexington!

What about Voltaire?

Robby

[wcfields]

I, sadly enough, am the previous mommy to Bella. I am VERY happy she has a home with LORDHELPUS, and I know I will get over these pangs of seller's regret in due time, because she has gone to the right place to reach all her potential... but, it is never easy to let go of a horse you loved.
But, I am trying very hard at this time in my life to reach my potential as a A/O inthe hunter world...thereis not enough of me to go around at my little backyard farm. So, though I can take credit for the rescue of Bella, Lordhelpus must carry on the job of saving one of our country's finest heritages, TOC bloodlines.

Best of luck to you both!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Rebecca Bailey
Eureka Knoll Farm
Farmville, VA

[Kinsella]

I highly recommend Corlando. You can see him & some offspring at Triad Farm (http://www.triadfarm.com). If you want a video, I have one here in Lexington and will be more than happy to loan it to you. He is the sire of the GP stallion Loverboy, and this years foals are unbelievable (I especially like Cessna!). Also, I have a 2yo filly by him that is a phenomenal jumper, with the attitude of a hunter, so that's what she'll be (unless she decides different when she grows up - she certainly has the scope for the jumpers).

Aside from all that... Can I come see her & take some pictures???

[Spot]

LH - you know that I am downright "THRILLED" for you, even though I messed up on guessing who her dam was from the picture you sent ... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A big congrats and happy stallion shopping! Thats always such a fun part!

"Spot"

[HFSH]

I second the recommendation for Iroko. He has produced several top jumping horses, including The Fly.

[Sporthorse South]

Wow, congrats! What a find!

You've already gotten some great suggestions. If you aren't afraid to try frozen, you might want to think about Argentinus (sire of 2003 World Cup winner Anka). Judy Yancey in Ocala handles his frozen semen. Or Cento - you can get his frozen through Heike Albert at GW Ranch. For fresh semen, I'd add the Abdullah son Agincourt to your list. Happy shopping!

[Exitpoint]

Call me simple, but if I were in your position I'd start with a list that included stallions who themselves jumped at FEI level, stallions who have produced kids jumping at that level, or both.

A good index at the 100 day test isn't FEI competition. A pedigree with "jumping lines" isn't FEI competition, and a few babies jumping around courses that are a foot or more below FEI levels. . . isn't FEI competition! And if a horse is going to make an Olympic team, not to mention go to the Games and present himself well, it's an absolute essential that he be competitive at FEI levels (since Olympic levels equate roughly to FEI 1.60 classes, or Category B or A).

Some stallions are known for throwing solid amateur jumpers that excel in the small stuff (4 feet 6 and below); that's a huge market, and a nice thing to breed. However, put the jumps up a foot, widen them a foot or two, and bring in the best riders and horses in the world. . . the game changes considerably. Stallions that have the potential to produce competitors at 1.5 or 1.6 meters aren't the same set as those who make nice little jumpers.

Galoubet is a nice suggestion, though one must wonder whether any Olympic-level competitiors are going to want to deal with the trainability issues of those bloodlines irrespective of physical talent. So many other suggestions have nothing in their preformance or production records that bespeaks FEI level jumping. One can get lucky and get a 1.6 meter horse out of a stallion with no FEI credentials himself, but most folks would stack the odds by breeding to success.

When clients tell us they want to either "ride International" or "breed an Olympic/FEI horse," we generally invite them to a schooling session with Capone at 1.60 meters. Then we ask them to stand right next to the oxers while we jump, or alongside the triple combinations.

For those without firsthand experience at these levels, these sessions are often quite eye-opening indeed. It's a different ballgame up in the big fences, and it takes an entirely different horse to excel, day after day and year after year, while jumping fences taller and wider than the average sportscar.

So, in sum, if you really want an Olympic jumper then the pool of bloodlines which are serious contenders nowadays is small indeed. Statistically, the highest percentage of stallions in this class are Holsteiners, so that's one place to start.

Regards,

D. Spink

[Lord Helpus]

OMG -- This thread is already on P 2 -- I will be spending most of this weekend doing in depth research on stallions suggested by you nice folks.


Exitpoint, not to worry, Capone was on my list. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And horses who have jumped around at the highest levels or who have produced offspring who have been on Olympic teams or World Cup teams also qualify as being top level horses. "Mere" A/O jumpers producing "mere" 100 day test passers are not on my finalist list. Oh, that sounds snotty. But I need to narrow the list somehow and there are so many quality horses out there, I have to draw a line in the sand somehow.

Bella has a half sister by Galoubet who is still owned by her breeders, the Curreys. She has several foals on the ground and I will be discussing my short list with Christian Currey since he has done a lot of research before deciding on stallions for "Kitten".

I believe that Bella was sired by Perrel because TOC was very hard to get in foal so the Curreys finally decided to try fresh semen and, being in Tennessee, they turned to Warioto Farm to choose from one of their stallions to get the freshest semen. Bella was also a product of ET because TOC had trouble carrying to term. So Bella is a very fortunate girl to be here at all. And I am a very fortunate girl to have her standing in my barn.

Thank you WCFields for selling her to me!

Pictures to follow as soon as I work through my USB port problem. I have taken a ton of them and they are sitting in my digital camera, unable to be uploaded to my computer.

[jilltx]

Congrats to you LH! Sounds like a wonderful match for all involved. Can't wait to see next years foal pics http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wcfields...I feel for your loss, but it must feel good to know that your girl is going on to such a fine home!

[sixpoundfarm]

Is this your new mare (http://wariotofarminc.com/sold.html)? (Scroll down the page a bit..) She is lovely if that's her.

[Chef Jade]

Congrats, LH!!!! I am so excited for you! I don't have any real suggestions as far as stallions go, as I have never bred one myself. However, I do daydream adbout Jade making me lots of fancy babies someday!

As far as Galoubet goes, Rodrigo was quoted as saying that Baloubet is a freak of nature, and he feels that Galoubet isn't all that great as a sire. Just something to consider...

How about this guy that I have had my eye on? I know nothing about him - just LOVE the picture! Heartbreaker (http://www.sellefrancais.org/heartbreaker.htm)

[jackie]

It seems so right that you should have her. And how reassuring for Rebecca that she is in the best of homes!

Of course, I love this bloodline. It is such a prepotent bloodline for "jumping beans." Touch of Class's dam also produced Crocidile Tears, a champion timber horse, and Special Memories, another dynamite grand prix jumper. Three superior jumpers (well-an understatement about TOC for sure) from three different sires and a handful of foals! It supports the theory that a pre-disposition for jumping is one of the most inheritable traits and a good mare is, well, priceless.(This female line also includes the only mare to win the English Oaks and English derby.) (Take a look at http://touchstonevalleyfarm.com)

My only suggestion is the obvious, since you have so many choices-make sure she is bred to a super fertile stallion-it will make your dreams come true faster!

Good luck-keep us updated!

[fleur]

if the mare on the warioto sales page is the one you bought, i have always thought she was really gorgeous. lucky you http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[HiJumpGrrl]

CONGRATULATIONS! and um, will you put me on the list of people that wants the result of said breeding, whoever the stallion is? ToC was my parents' worst nightmare in 1984--she cemented my desire to do the big jumpers one day. I even own the Breyer horse! (but who doesnt)

[mbp]

You have a nice list already! I would definitely second Fuerst Gotthard (very successful bloodlines, a very successful stallion over fences himself including winning World Cup classes, he has added bone to all of the foals I have seen, most I have seen jumped have that extra kick in back, great temperament,smart, excellent stallion owner).

Iroko comes from a sire (Pilot) that tops charts, he leads his own indices, and he has proven get. He was successfully shown as well. I don't know if you would get the extra substance ? He would get a good solid look from me though, bc he is available fresh here, and proven. Aram not only produced an Olympic winner, but I believe it was also from a 1/2 tb mare - someone will correct that if I got it wrong.

If you are open to frozen, you might look at Landlord - I think his frozen is available here.

I think if you really narrow the list to stallion who themselves successfully competed in World Cup or Olympic competition, not just been successful over fences or produced World Cup/Olympic comeptitors, you are getting tighter, but lists do have to get narrowed.

You have to know - with her bloodlines, we are ALL going to have a vested interest in you actually getting that Olympic jumper! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif How cool for this country to have a jumper bred here that could also say to the other horses back in the barn, "You know, when my gramma was here, she kicked tail!"

[Lord Helpus]

Yes, that is the mare -- the one about 3/4 of the way down the page. That is Isabelle....

I have taken the Breyer model and the now famous picture of TOC (the one which is attached to her pedigree page through the link on p1 --- click on the little icon right after her name when you get to her pedigree and you will see the picture I am referring to --) out to the barn and compare both to Bella.

Bella' blaze almost exact an replica of Miss Kitty's -- both come down the middle of the face and then flare out so they touch the nostrils on both sides. And their expressions are identical. And, both horses have no other white on them. It is almost freaky for a mother and daughter to have not just similar, but identical markings.

She got shoes put on for the first time in 3+ years today. A first step in her journey back to being a show horse, I hope. She was not thrilled about having her hind legs pulled forward for the trim, so the next stop is the chiropractor.

Forgive me if I gush. I am just so excited, and the dogs are getting tied of listening.

[race_run_jump]

How cool - she is gorgeous!! I'd love to see her when I come out to KY for the sales! Erika

[Tom King]

Argentinus

[ise@ssl]

For a jumper I'd breed (again) to Fuerst Gotthard (mbp - ours has the "kick"in the back!), Corlando or Contigo M.

[Leah A]

Congratulations! That is a fabulous looking mare and a great pedigree (especially on the bottom).

I second the vote for Voltaire.

[BLBGP]

May I ask what happened to her injury-wise?

She's a pretty girl!

[Sonesta]

I'd suggest you look at Voltaire or Landkonig

[mbp]

If you don't mind frozen, Robin Z is another thought. Butterfly Flip is by Robin Z and out of a tb or 1/2 tb dam I am pretty sure. He tops the Swedish indices for jumping sires and is very well bred and I think has 15 or so offspring that have competed at GP.

[TKR]

A very close friend of mine had a similar "problem" this year of matching up a daughter of Caribbean Queen, Margie Goldstein-Engle's GP/Olympic qualified mare, also deceased. My friend has her only daughter who suffered a career-ending injury, so we poured over stallion possibilities and our criteria was pretty much what Doug suggested. An interesting dilemma, no doubt! I'm sure you'll make the right decision and hope everything goes the very best! Cheers and congratulations -- a very lucky mare indeed to have someone who cares so much about her!
Penny G

[showjumpers66]

Congrats on your new mare! She is lovely!!!

In my opinion, Cathalido is the best bred jumper stallion in the US. His pedigree is incredible and he is an outstanding individual.

Cathalido (http://www.holsteiner.com/HolsteinerDirectory/2004Directory/Stallion%20Pages/Cathalido.pdf)

For frozen semen, I would suggest Lucky Light, Corrado I, Carpaccio, Caretino, or Carnaby. I really like Quinar and Quantum, but I don't know if anyone has frozen semen available.

Carnaby (http://www.holsteiner.com/HolsteinerDirectory/2004Directory/Stallion%20Pages/Carnaby%20I.pdf)

Carpaccio (http://www.holsteiner.com/HolsteinerDirectory/2004Directory/Stallion%20Pages/Carpaccio.pdf)

Caretino (http://www.holsteiner.com/HolsteinerDirectory/2004Directory/Stallion%20Pages/Caretino.pdf)

Corrado I (http://www.holsteiner.com/HolsteinerDirectory/2004Directory/Stallion%20Pages/Corrado.pdf)

Lucky Light (http://www.warmbloodsus.com/pages/3/index.htm)

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by showjumpers66:
In my opinion, Cathalido is the best bred jumper stallion in the US. His pedigree is incredible and he is an outstanding individual. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely agree with you that Cathalido's is a superb pedigree. The Stamm line isn't off the charts, but it's far from sub-par. Calido I shows exceptional promise as a top-end International jumper sire, though it must be said that Cantus himself long since proved to be one of the top jumping producers of all times, so the old adage of "like the son, breed to the father" might apply for some folks here. The scarcity of Cantus blood is, of course, the wild card here.

I can do a nice "bob and weave" here and point out that, since we're not in the States, there's no need for me to question your statement regarding the best pedigree! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Nonetheless, I'd stack up Cantour's with anything in the world - he of course goes one generation backwards, directly to Cantus on the topside. His Stamm is exceptional, and Lacapo is a powerful producer and carries on the proven results of Cantus - Landgraf combinations. Power, scope, and supple athleticism come together.

Add in the Marlon (xx) which adds that bit of extra-stunning jumping "special sauce" not to mention much-needed "blood," and it's a pedigree matched by few others in the world and, I'd argue, bested by only a tiny handful. It was Maas Hell himself who engineered the breeding that produced Cantour, and he felt that Cantour might well be his "crowning achievement" though sadly he left us before he could see Cantour grow up.

The ball is still in my court to prove out Cantour in sport, and until them I don't "crow" too much about him. However, I will go on record as saying that he is the most freakisly talented jumper I've ever ridden or witnessed firsthand. Keep in mind that he lives alongside Capone, who himself at age 8 has moved up to the biggest showjumping courses in the world already and is still nowhere near the limits of his capabilities.

In terms of pure, raw, inborn athletic talent. . . Cantour has more than Capone. Much more. I'll prove that out in sport if our good fortune continues, but already it is clear in his schooling for those of us who work with him day in and day out; he's at least one generation out from the current crop of top showjumpers in the pure talent category.

Anyway, I promised myself I'd not blather on about him. . . first come the results in sport, which are worth more than all my own opinions combined! Pedigree-wise, however, it's hard to argue many better-suited pedigrees in the world for producing jump, jump, and more jump.

Regards,

D. Spink

[Edgar]

I did scroll through the list of post and noticed some of my stallions mentioned allready however I think Landkönig makes a great match with your mare. He stamps his foals and can give her the bone quality and great hind end. He is an inreadible jumper, and from his first German foal crop producing superb offspring, Bundeschampionat qualifier and a licensed son. He has set and still holds the highest selling jumper ever record at the Hanoverian elite auction and some of the oldest at 7 are jumping GP courses already. ( A bit early for my taste but we have talent anyway)

This year some of his offspring has been sold back to Germany and I have been offered good money to sell him back to Germany as well ( not gona happen...)

His ridability is superb as well.
Check him out if you have a chance.

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edgar:
I did scroll through the list of post and noticed some of my stallions mentioned allready however I think Landkönig makes a great match with your mare. He stamps his foals and can give her the bone quality and great hind end. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree; a nice stallion with a solid pedigree. Much nicer than many of the "L" line stallions we've seen in North America in the past. Mare owners here are fortunate to have him available, and I do hope you don't sell him back.

We've also had efforts to sell Cantour back to Germany. Not gonna happen, but it's a particular honor when requests like that are received.

Regards,

D. Spink

[showjumpers66]

No slam was intended towards the other jumper stallions in the US, exitpoint. Every single stallion in the first 4 generations of Cathalido's pedigree is exceptional. There are not many pedigrees equal to it here in the US. It is equivilant to a race horse with four generations of black type (stakes winners).

Point taken on the stamm line ... 776 it's not.

Cantour has been on my short list for quite some time and I have either not had the right mare for him, he was MIA (before you owned him), or I was unable to afford his stud fee. He will continue to stay on that list and hopefully the right time will come in the near future. Until then, I will enjoy hearing of his successes.

Linaro is my favorite stallion, period, and I won't breed my current mare to him due to silly superstition. The last two times I bred to a Landgraf son (Lemgo and Lancaster), my mares died and I ended up with orphan foals. The mare that I want to breed to Linaro is family and I would be devestated if something happened to her. I guess I am going to have to lease a mare to breed to him!

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by showjumpers66:
Cantour has been on my short list for quite some time and I have either not had the right mare for him, he was MIA (before you owned him), or I was unable to afford his stud fee. He will continue to stay on that list and hopefully the right time will come in the near future. Until then, I will enjoy hearing of his successes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We'll keep working to develop his own competitive record, for sure! We're off to a few smaller GPs (1.40-1.45 range - Thunderbird, Twin Oaks, Country Classic, etc.) the rest of the summer, and then he'll be at the Masters in September - his first time at Spruce outdoors.

If I continue to manage his training properly, I expect that he'll make quite an impression in the All Canada ring at the Masters. Apart from the rest of his attributes, he is without doubt the most careful horse I have ever jumped. I mean, freakishly careful. We go weeks in schooling without touching a rail, let alone knocking one down. I don't believe I've ever had a rail in competition on him; time faults and refusals only (and precious few of those). That sort of hyper-carefulness is an awfully nice thing to have in the proverbial "back pocket!"

Sorry to hear of your L-line losses. One reason I don't own mares and breed is because I'm just not emotionally able to handle losses like that. I'm too close to the horses (and dogs); breeding is a crapshoot and the cost is too high for me personally. I'll stick with the silly stallions. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In the meantime, let me whisper the word "Cascavelle" in your ear. Apart from Calido (and Cantour, of course), he's my favorite Cantus son and he's a jumping freak for sure. No competitive record, but I'd give my left you-know-what to put him in our training program and see where he went. I've got access to embryos from a Contender mare and I'm thinking of taking them to Cascavelle for a world-beater jumping mutant.

Con Air is also nice; I bid on him when he was approved, but the Verband out-bid me (Herr Boley has deeper pockets than I, to say the least), and now he's a hot young thing in competition.

Oh, and finally AK Cumano Z is an absolute freak of nature. . . a total, absolute jumping freak. I'd sell another bodypart to get him into my barn for training, though alas I can't even find him let alone bring him here. Lanaken says they don't have him, and they have no information on his whereabouts. My German friends have no news, he's not been in competition since March.

With Jos Lansink leaving Zangersheide, I might just call Jos directly and see if I can track Cumano down. That stallion is stunning, and like Cantour I think he's at least one generation out from today's typical World Cup/FEI jumper. Perhaps ahead of his time, frankly; seeing him jump "only" 1.60 meters in the $1 million CN class last September, it was absolutely clear to me that 1.60 is as easy for him as 1.50 is for Capone. Alas, there's no classes bigger than 1.60 today so where is Cumano really going to go?

Bah, I shouldn't have even mentioned him as now I am obsessing about him - again - and I don't even have time for a new youngster let alone a World Cup jumping mutant. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Who am I kidding. .. I'd find time, I'd skip sleeping if I could get the ride on that amazing, amazing stallion.

Regards,

D. Spink

[Lord Helpus]

Oh my, Oh my ---

This is so much fun, just seeing all of you compare and promote stallions. I haven't overheard a discussion like this since grade school when I heard two boys discussing "Mine is bigger [er, "better"] than yours is".... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I will have to spend another 2 days researching the entire C line, I can tell. So many choices!!!

With embryo transfer, what is the greatest number of foals attributed to one mare that have hit the ground in one year? I might just have to go for a new record, just to get to every stallion I want to use.....

[showjumpers66]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And to make things even more confusing, there are two Holsteiner "C" lines!

Cottage Son xx (Capitol I) and Cor de la Breyere

I met Con Air in Germany, but he was loaded down in blankets ... I was unable to talk the people I was with to stay for the Gala Event. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I have noticed Cascavelle in the Holsteiner Verband Stallion Roster ... he is very nice. Does anyone have frozen semen for him? I am not familiar with Cumano Z.

The Rocadero son I saw at the 2002 stallion approvals was incredible ... the one that was not approved and met with roaring disapproval from the crowd. He was a spectacular jumper.

And then there are the measly "A" line stallions, Acord II, Alasca, and Acorado!

[Lord Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by showjumpers66:
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif And to make things even more confusing, there are two Holsteiner "C" lines!

Cottage Son xx (Capitol I) and Cor de la Breyere
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear. It does get confusing.

Where do I go to look at what I might call a generation chart ---

In TB's it is a vertical listing of families with the foundation horse at the top. His immediate offspring listed in a column underneath him and are indented one tab. Offspring of each of those horses are listed underneath their parents and are indented another tab and so on.

Or, as my OTTB's would show up as Northern Dancer line offspring:

Norther Dancer
--- The Minstrel
------ Palace Music
--------- Cigar -- Not mine, but same sire as mine http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
--------- Butri (da Bear Man)
--- Dixieland Band
------ Chimes Band
--------- Shuffling (George)
--- Danzig
------ Makin
--------- Stevie Wonderful (Stevie)

There MUST be something like this in the WB world. There just MUST be.....

[showjumpers66]

Stamm Lines (mare families) (http://www.horse-flirt.de/stutenstaemme/de/index.html)

[showjumpers66]

German Stallion Book '92-'93 (http://www.horse-gate.com/hengstregister/index.html)

Click on "A bis Z"

Check out -

Alasca
Cantus
Caretino
Lord Calando
Lord de Luxe
Radjah Z
Ramalgo Z
Rebel Z I

Stallion Book '02-'03 (http://www.horse-gate.com/)

Click on "German Sires" in the left menu and then on "kleine Auswahl an Top-Verebern" under Selected sires of Germany 2002/2003

Check out -

Calido I
Calido II
Cardino
Cassini I

[showjumpers66]

Story of Capitol I (http://www.horse-flirt.de/capitol/index_en.htm)

[showjumpers66]

Oh my gosh! I can't believe that I forgot about the legendary cross of Ramiro / Alme! You can NOT go wrong here either!!! This cross created the legendary Ratina Z and numerous other international caliber horses.

Story of Ratina Z (http://www.theequinejournal.com/Resources/articles47/ratinazart47.html)

From this cross you have Ratina Z, Robin Z, Rebel Z I, Rebel Z II, Rebel Z III, Renomee Z, Radjah Z, Royal Z, Ronja Z, Damiro Z, Roxan Z (dam of Freedom Z and Cordanox Siracusa), Raina Z (dam of Oh Star), just to name a few. The list goes on and on.

Oh Star (http://www.sellefrancais.org/ohstar.htm)

Freedom Z (http://www.acornhillfarm.com/stallions/warmblood.php?stallion=freedomz)

Cordanox Siracusa (http://www.harassiracusa.co.cl/Centro_de_Reproducci_n/Reproducci_n_2/reproducci_n_2.htm)

Ronja Z (http://hessenpferde.medianotes.com/hessenpferd_des_monats/2000/februar.htm)

Royal Z (http://www.danishwarmblood.com/royalz.htm)

Radjah Z (http://www.flying1.com/radjahz.html)

[showjumpers66]

SORRY! I'll stop now!!! Once I get started on bloodlines, I'm like a freight train.

I have been on cloud nine as I found a Rebel Z mare that I am very interested in purchasing ... just waiting on the video.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I would want to continue with your exciting pedigree - daughter of an Olympic Gold Medallist, by breeding her to the sire of another. Aram (who just happens to be Nevada's grandsire http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif) sired the 2000 Sydney Olympic Individual Show Jumping Gold Medallist (deSjiem). I know that Kathy Hickerson (Majestic Gaits) still has frozen semen on him. Aram's sire was Nimmerdor - Holland's jumper sire of the century. I think that may have helped attract the breeder of Touch of Class to breed her full sister to Nevada a few years ago. Unfortunately, she was older and didn't catch http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by showjumpers66:
http://www.horse-flirt.de/capitol/index_en.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just want to thank you for sharing that link; it's one of the most informative, well-written, detailed synopses of any stallion line in Germany I've ever read. It's also free of fluff and hype, unlike so many things we read nowadays about stallions who are supposedly perfect, never made mistakes, best match for every mare in the world, etc.

I laughed at the concept of plow horses; Herr Thormählen's father testing mares by hitching them to a plow to see if they have "fight." Spectacular! Somehow, though, I can't see Capone or Cantour hitched to a plow. . . I just can't see it at all. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For me, one amazing thing about this situation is how open and honest all the folks in the article are. Not only in the article, but also in person: I've spent time with more or less everyone mentioned in the article, all of whom have been willing to take an errant North American and share the old stories and lessons, no questions asked. Try to imagine that in, say, America. . . world-famous trainers and breeders sharing thoughts with anybody curious enough to show up, demonstrate genuine interest, and ask.

It's not hard to see why the Germans up north have bred the best showjumpers in the world. In a word, honesty. Less marketing hype, and more focus on the horses, each of those guys in that article has forgotten more about breeding than I'll learn in a lifetime. Many of them were International showjumping riders themselves in the past. They all know what a jumper is, they know how to ride a jumper, and they know that breeding a jumper isn't about marketing or flash but rather about the horses above all else.

Anyway, I rable. Tingles ran up my spine reading the article, I just can't get enough of the old stories of the old boys (and girls!) in the pedigrees of the horses that share my own life.

Regards,

D. Spink

[Lord Helpus]

Go ahead a rable all you want, Exitpoint. This thread is why I changed my signature line this morning.

We all can take turns being the blind men and the one eyed men (few of us get to be true visionaries, like the german breeders you speak of with such reverence, or in the H/J world, like the George Morris's or the Bill Steinkrauses.)

On the COTH forums, I can be a one eyed man on the H/J board, but bring me over here and I quickly become a blind man and you and other breeders become the one eyed men. Only through you all can I even imagine what the true visionaries are striving for when they plan the matings which start dynasties.

And it sure is inspiring to hear about them.

If anyone has stories about how certain matings were planned, please do tell; I love those kind of stories.

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by showjumpers66:
I met Con Air in Germany, but he was loaded down in blankets ... I was unable to talk the people I was with to stay for the Gala Event. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I have noticed Cascavelle in the Holsteiner Verband Stallion Roster ... he is very nice. Does anyone have frozen semen for him? I am not familiar with Cumano Z. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Con Air is very handsome, a super jumper as well. "Typical Contender" in that he has exceptional front-end tidiness and a very nice, willing personality. I predict he'll eventually be sold by the Verband for big bucks to someplace like Italy or Holland, who need this blood so much.

Cascavelle is a Cantus. Specicially, Cantus / Calando I / Consul. Stamm 162. Born in 1986, so a very early Cantus. He is listed as standing at Pohlsee, but I believe that he is now at Lothar Voelz's place.

Rumor I hear (from Stall Maas Hell, and as I remember the conversation so don't quote me!) is that Cascavelle lives in Switzerland most of the year, with a rich an enigmantic bachelor. Cascavelle shows up for breeding season in Holstein, sometimes, and then disappears back to his castle in the Swiss Alps. Never been under saddle after the 100 day test. A freakish jumper, but as he was described to me, "a bit, you know, 'difficult' in the head." This was accompanied by a finger circling the ear, i.e. the universal "crazy" gesture.

I've never met Cascavelle, nor seen him in person or even a video of him freejumping. Just photos, which are admittedly stunning, of him popping over 1.50 meter oxers with absolutely no effort required. His jump looks very similar to Cantour's, to my eye at least. Not as tidy in the frontend, but absolutely boundless scope and very, very careful.

Last year's Seigerhengst in October was by Cascavelle, and was presented by Herr Voelz as well. Small world, in that Herr Voelz also stands Capone II (or did until recently, I heard he was sold again but not sure)! I joke with Lothar when I see him that he should be paying me commissions on the breedings he gets to Capone II, who he markets as being "full brother to the already successful showjumper Capone I." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyway, Cascavelle is very popular right now in Germany as is all of the Cantus blood. Cascavelle lists as 167cm, small for a Cantus. The combination with Calando I is very interesting, but the double-up on Corde seems to me to be a risky thing but I'm sure the Germans have a very good reason why they are liking it so much. I see the Cantus / Landgraf combination (as in Come On, who was himself so wildly successful) as being the "magic click" because there's so much work ethic coming from Landgraf himself. Then, I'd always want to mix in a bit of blood down on the bottom - Ladykiller, Exorbitant (too young, but still it'd be cool), or of course Marlon.

Cumano is by Cassini I. Cumano is a freak. I'm not saying any more until I dig around and see what he's up to. I hope everyone forgets about him, nobody rides him, and he comes up for sale cheap. I think not so many people can ride this stallion, his jump is tossing Jos Lansink out of the saddle consistently and Jos is perhaps the rider I most work to emulate in my own rides.

Anyway, back to work!

Regards,

D. Spink

[risingstarfarm]

Congratulations on your wonderful mare! I'm happy it all worked out for you.

If this was 2008, I'd suggest my boy! - he's got a pedigree that includes Darco, Jus de Pommes and Nimmerdor to name a few.

However, since it's 2004 - I'd be happy to send you a copy of the BWP stallion directory http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There are lots of incredible boys in there.

edited to add that the BWP/NAD is now permitting the stallions that pass their test and gain approval at Keuring to fulfill their performance requirements in the HUNTERS! More information will be available on the BWP website

[YankeeLawyer]

LH:
If you are still considering SF stallions, you might check out this link:
www.sellefrancais.com (http://www.sellefrancais.com)
There is information on Quick Star, as well as Cabdula du Tillard, who has an interesting pedigree and performance record.

In any case, you have some exciting stallions to choose from, as evidenced by the great suggestions of the other posters.

Best wishes!
VHC

[Ladybug Hill]

Congrats!

Touch of Class is my favorite horse of all time. I remember at the Olympics. She would be my dream horse.

Chris

[Touchstone Farm,Ky]

Congrats on finding such a great mare! There is a fabulous G.Ramiro Z son in Pa. I'm in Versailles and have about 15 of his offspring at all ages if you want to come see what he produces. His name is R.Johnson and her website is www.colourfields.com (http://www.colourfields.com). Great temperments and talent to burn.

[RioTex]

Great News! I have been computerless the past few days, so I am late to the congratulatory party. I think you owe me a quarter, LHU. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No suggestions on a stallion, but enjoy your new girl. I have still not heard about the other horse, so I am thinking on that front you made a wise choice not to wait for him.

[Lord Helpus]

As of Sunday at noon, I have gone through the 4 pages and summarized the suggestions so far. I may have gotten some sires wrong -- I have had to guess on occasion from references to one stallion from another. And spelling is not my strong point between terrible typing and mild dyslexia...

If I have anything really wrong please feel free to email me at PMahony@aol.com

Oh, the ! before some horses is not my comment, but, in the absence of a check mark on the keyboard, it means that the horse was mentioned 2 people. If there is !!, the horse was mentioned by three people.



SUGGESTED STALLION LIST FROM COTH THREAD

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

! ARAM -- deceased dutch stallion by Nimmerdor, sire of Olympic Gold Medalist De Sjiem. (www.majesticgaits.com (http://www.majesticgaits.com)) (www.members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/nevadapedigree.html (http://www.members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/nevadapedigree.html))

! ARGENTUS --Sire of 2003 World Cup winner Anka [Judy Yancy, Ocala]

BALOUBET DE ROULET

CABDULLA du TILLARD -- SF

CANTOUR --by Von Cantus, by Cantus outrageous pedigree and freakish jumper, but is not yet proven in competition.

CAPONE -- Von Contender - Stamm 890

CARNABY -- P3

CARPACCIO -- P 3

CARENTINO -- P 3

CASCAVELLE -- 1986 by Cantus, 167cm tall represents the Cantus/Landgraf cross

CATHALIDO -- P 3 -- by Calido I who is by Cantus (I think..). He has a superb pedigree, outstanding individual

CENTO -- [Heike Albert, GW Ranch]

CON AIR -- by Contender

CONCORDE

CONTIGO M

! CORLANDO --sire of GP stallion Loverboy [Kinsella has video -- go to Triad Farm link Looks like a nice horse and a nice farm in Pa]

CORRADO I -- P 3

ELUTE

!! FUERST GOTTARD

G RAMIRO Z

HEARTBREAKER -- by Nimmerdor

HEISMAN

!!IROKO --Dutch stallion by Pilot, consistantly in top 10 jumper stallions, in US for rest of 2004 (http://personal.monad.net/~ctolman/, Sire of The Fly. Available by fresh semen, they think.

! LANDKONIG -- stamps his foals, has a great hind end with good bone, incredible jumper

LANDLORD

LINARO -- by Landgraf. "favorite stallion, period"

LIOSTRO by Lady Killer (who has produced GP winners Sapphire and Liocalyon)

LUCKY LIGHT -- P 3 OF THREAD

MEZCALERO by Voltaire [he stands at Rocky Mountain Warmbloods]

OH STAR

PABLO

QUICK STAR, by Galoubet, by Alme

RAFIKI NZURI

! RIO GRANDE

ROBIN Z -- sire of Butterfly Zip, top Swedish jumper and has c. 15 offspring who has competer at GP level.

! VOLTAIRE

---------------------------------

STALLION LINES TO CHECK OUT

--------------------------------

ACCORD ii
ALASCA
ACORDO
CANTUS
CARENTINO
LORD CALANDO
LORD DE LUXE
RADJAH Z
RAMALGO Z
REBEL Z I
CALIDO I
CALIDO II
CARDINO
CASSINI I

RAMIRO / ALME
From this cross you have the "R" Z horses such as Ratina Z etc.

[Lord Helpus]

And here is my first attemt to research a stallion line. I started with Capitol I. I only wish that the Europeans were more interested in putting birth years after horse's names so that I could have organized them chronologically.

I did not even try to organize them alphabetically, although I probably should have. Since I am working off my laptop and it does not have a spread sheet on it, I cannot do a "sort" on it. Sure wish it could....

Again, please feel free to email me pointing out errors.

DAMN! I had bolded all of the offspring of Capitol I and had bolded and put Capitol I in a much larger font. None of that survided the move to the Internet. Double Damn.

Cottage Son TB
-
--Capitano (x Retina. Retina won the Hamburg Derby)
---Capitol II (x Folia)
---Latus I (x Landgraf)
---Latus II (x Landgraf)
---U-Capitola (x Folia)
------Quite Capitol by Quidam de Reval by Jalisco
------Lord Capitol by Lord
------Cevin by Calando I
------Landcapitol by Landadel
---Capitol (x Folia)
------Corso (x Maximus mare) 1979
------Capriol (won Hamburg Derby in 2000.)
---------Degenhardt's Caprioso
------VDL Cardento (x Lord mare)
------Verelst Goliath (x Caletto mare)
------Capital (x Caletto mare) full brother to Verelst Goliath)
------Carolus H (x Roman mare)
------Charlottenhof's Charisma (x Lord mare)
------Bull's Cheasepeak Blue (x Caletto mare)
------Carolus I (1986). His offspring have won more than 500,000. He has 6 approved sons.
---------Carlsson G
---------Carinena
---------Clinton (1990) earned more than 100,000 Euro
---------Carlos
------Calato (x Landgraf I dam). He is probably one of the best Capitol I sons)
---------Coster
---------Callistro
------Carthago Z (Jumped in both Atlanta and Sydney Olympics). He has 9 approved sons. His offspring have won &gt; 350,000 euro
---------HS Europa (was bought for 2.3M DM at PSI auction)
--------Charly
------Cassini I (has 11 approved sons)
--------Callistro (?) Same name as above...
--------Candillo (won 1996 stallion performance test)
--------Celano (x Lord dam)
-------------Calano
------Champione 1988 (One of 5 of Capitol offspring to have taken part in Olympic games)
--------Camporado B
--------Comtessa
-------Carthago (2nd at Aachen in 2000 to Cento)
---------Colman
------Cento (won 2000 GP of Aachen, on gold medal team in Sydney, won World Cup Finals. In 1999 4 offspring reached the finals of the 5 year old championships.)
------Corrado (won world cup 2x 2x GP Aqachen, Ger Championships etc)
------Cardinale (x Lord mare)
------Caprera (x Lagano mare)

[Exitpoint]

Calato is indeed a very nice boy who is getting very popular with the smart breeders in Germany. Coester's success of late has something to do with that, but there's more. Too bad they castrated him http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Also, remember there is a different horse who is "Coster;" The horse you are thinking of (von Capitol I) is "Coester" since I can't find the special "oe" character for the German on my keyboard this morning!

Cascavelle is Cantus / Calando I (Calando I is by Corde), so there's no Cantus/Landgraf in him. Cantour is Cantus/Landgraf (through Lacapo, Cantour's damsire), as is Come On though I do not know if he is doing any breeding at all.

Cantour did move into Grand Prix competition this summer, so he's not entirely unproven anymore. . . but he has yet to compete at International level (1.50 meters and up, FEI-sanctioned).

Carthago Z is infertile - too much exogenous testosterone at Sydney, no more swimmers. A shame.

Cassini I is THE hot jumper sire right now for a few folks I know in Germany in terms of making big jump with lots of power. I'm in the hunt for Cassini I / Cantus / Landgraf crosses. . . that's a super pedigree out of the right Stamm line. I suspect many others are hunting the same pedigree right now, so if you see a young stallion (or mare) with this combo, call me! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gotta run, have a Grand Prix with Capone this afternoon and he hasn't even had a bath yet.

Regards,

D. Spink

[showjumpers66]

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Isn't this fun??!!

[july]

My two cents...

ROBIN Z -- Last year Butterfly Flip (f. Robin Z) and Malin Bayard were the TOP SHOWJUMPING combination in the WORLD! The horse is amazing to watch and Malin is a VERY PETIT girl in her 20s.

Many of the dutch breeders are going crazy over Eurocommerce BERLIN (Cassini I x Caretino x Fernando x Freeman). He is 10 and his show record up until last fall includes good placings in Valkenswaard, Helsinki, Zelhem, WCq Berlin, CSIO La Baule, CSIO Aachen, CSIO Hickstead, etc...BUT I have heard that his semen is not the best quality which would probably make ET more difficult.

[nhwr]

Cento make me (the confirmed dressage ridier) want to bet for the other team (that'd be you crazy jumpers) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I have to say as successful as Contender is as a jumping sire, I have seen some really really moving dressage horses with him up close in their pedigree. But I think you should look at Ulft, if he is still available frozen, since you were drawn to Ferro (Ulft son) and Rhodium (Ulft grandson).

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
I have to say as successful as Contender is a jumping sire is, I have seen some really really moving dressage horses with him up close in their pedigree. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are hearing rumors from high-end dressage friends in Holland that breeders there are going to Contender (or his sons) for the next generation dressage horses at the top end. Elastic, of course heaps of impulsion, and equally important the tractable temperament the Dutch need so much.

I have to say, seeing Capone ridden by exceptional dressage folks. . . he does look like he's a dressage horse (don't tell him I said that! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). We're schooling PSG at home and if we can ever find time between breedings and shows, I'm really eager to take him out GP in dressage. Canter pirouettes? Yeah, like that's going to be a challenge physically for a horse who does this for a living (http://community.webshots.com/photo/106062538/159081639nYVBVH)! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Regards,

D. Spink

[nhwr]

Doug, now you are just being evil http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif It is not nice to scare us dressage riders like that. It is bad enough that I do dressage with a mare who is Dollar Girl's 3/4 sister and got 9s for jumping on her mare test. (I bought her for her movement before I understood her pedigree). Every once in a while I think about venturing over to the darkside, but pics like that scare the $h!+ out of me.

[Lord Helpus]

nhwr, of course you are doing embryo transfer with her and have at least one foal per year on the ground... Right? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

What level dressage does she do?

My goodness, how did you come to buy her?

Wanna sell her? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[imajacres]

I would like to suggest Raphael. He is the sire of many GP horses, Olympic competitors and qualifiers etc, including Rio Grande, Radiator, Robinson ridden by Richard Spooner, Millcreek Raphael, etc. He is approved Selle Francais, and his semen is excellent quality. If you would like more information, dont hesitate to get in touch.

http://www.matchmakerequine.com

[risingstarfarm]

Since you are looking for specifics......

Robin Z
Fuerst Gotthard

[nhwr]

LH,
Hopefully, she is pregnant. I find out tomorrow (Monday). She is 12 years old, this will be her first foal. I found her near Hamburg in a farmer's pasture about 3 years ago. I have shown her through third level, but I have been slacking for the last year or so (family obligations), I live in Southern California and breeding is really expensive because turnout for babies is really expensive. So I probably won't be cranking them out.

Too bad though because she is a big beautiful girl, really black with 4 socks (can you tell I loff her?) I know most jumper riders worry their horses can't jump big, I worry that she can. I have only jumped her once, that was enough for me http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Bentley]

The place that I ride at over here has a bunch of Argentinus babies (family connections are good http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). There's a vast array of them, all a decent to large size, good bone, and a freakishly amazing talent to jump anything. The one that's been left a stallion is a bit of a handful http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but still good to ride and jump, just a bit of your usual studly behavior. The mares and geldings have all had very pleasant natures.

It is going to be so hard for you to pick!!!

[aahunterjumper]

Lord Helpus,

Congratulations on your lovely mare! I so loved watching TOC at the LA Olympics.

For sentimental reasons, Abdullah. When they bred Kluwall to him, the result was Special Memories. Although, I think Dooley's best to date is Airborne Monticello (looked just like Dad when he won the 1998 St. Christopher's GP and went to the Olympics for France).

Seconding other posters about Cassini, Concorde, Voltaire, and Heartbreaker.

Also, you might want to consider Escudo. Or Burggraaf (sired S'Blieft). And, though he seems not to be popular right now, Sandro. Wonderful jumping genes (according to the Dutch stats, he's about 98% successful in producing a jumper). He was one of the first stallions to have a performance career, had three paternal half-sibs [Sedac, Santos, Mary] who were international jumpers, and I think one year had three offspring showjumping at the World Championships.

Good luck! Please let us know who the chosen fellow is.

[Duffy]

What an exciting time for you, LordHelpus! Congrats on your gorgeous Bella! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Rocky XVI]

VDL Corland

http://www.theworld.com/~khickers/corland.html

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Corland currently has the highest jumping index of all KWPN stallions. He also produces offspring with a good exterior and good temperament.

Question: Does anyone know of any Corland male offspring approved and standing in North America?

[Gettin Jiggy with it]

I must also second Concorde and Burggraaf as well as suggest Calvados. All have proven offspring at the highest levels all have approved sons and very good mare reports. Concorde was named sire of the year in 2003 for the KWPN and has a lot of offspring qualified for the Olympics. I must also say that the Dutch do an excellent job of selecting stallions that complement thier own mare base and don't just use the same old just because it was born in a region. They are a very progressive breed. I don't think I would want to breed to a stallion who is reported as being a freak of nature as who is to say that he will ever reproduce that.

With your requirments I would only breed to a stallion who has at lest 10 offspring competing at international level and one with not too much blood as your mare has blood enough.

My stallions are much to young for you to consider and becuase we don't believe in over jumping them I can not invite you out for a 1.60m jump school. But you should have a look at them to see what Concorde, Damiro, Calvados and Wellington have produced on well bred quality mares it might help narrow your search.

Happy stallion hunting and please do more then one embroy transfer per year.

www.kvf.ca (http://www.kvf.ca)

[Odie]

Wow, Lord Helpus, first of all, thank you SO MUCH for starting this thread - as a self-proclaimed 'pedigree nerd' this is the kind of discussion a lurker hopes for! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Secondly, congratulations on the purchase of a wonderful mare! I did not have the pleasure of watching TOC, but have heard enough about such a wonderful athlete. You are one of the models for those of us that recognize the importance of the mare, and go through such exhaustive research in order to find that desirable match.

While I do not have any suggestions, I am just sitting back and enjoying the vast amount of info in this thread that I will be keeping when I will be taking the plunge into breeding. As usual, Exitpoint and showjumpers, your posts are amazingly informative and I hope to someday have some of the amount of knowledge that you do, as my knowledge is primarily of the Dutch breeding, and unfortunately not as much of the German lines, but thanks to this thread, that is beginning to change http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Best of luck LHU, I am living vicariously through your thread! LOL http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[HSGFarms]

Rocky XVI I have also voted for Corland the first time around http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif very nice choice! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifAnd I don't think I have seen any sons standing at stud yet by Corland in North America! That's why I hope you keep your lovely young Corland son a Stud! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now on to the second round of my favorite Stallions!!!Here's a couple more stallions to add for viewing pleasure to your great long list! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cordalme Z www.hengststation-boeckmann.de (http://www.hengststation-boeckmann.de) or www.superiorequinesires.com (http://www.superiorequinesires.com) wonderful stallion lovely bred and has some great jumping offspring. He is from a strong mare line(Alme-Lavendel). Cordalme Z is out of the same mare that also produce several other great jumping stallions that inclued Landrover and Royal Z 11. Cordalme also has a lovely son who is an up and coming star in the jumping world in Europe called Couleur Rubin www.yancey-farms.com (http://www.yancey-farms.com). I loff this Stallion his jumping form is near perfect! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For Pleasure(Furioso 11-Grannus) is my one of my Favorite's. I have no idea if you can get his semen in North America any more but you can check the following sites www.yancey-farms.com (http://www.yancey-farms.com) or www.superiorequinesires.com (http://www.superiorequinesires.com).
Good Luck in your search! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[silver]

If I had a great jumping TB mare that needed proven GP producing lines AND more bone/ a better hind end I would personally look to Ireland. Of course I'm a bit biased there but it is a very proven cross for producing just that. The Irish breeding program produces a very high number of GP horses/breeding. As far as I know it's the highest percentage in the world per mare bred.

Many KWPN horses have a lot of ID in the bloodlines too. I'm not familiar enough with the stallions mentioned here to point out which ones.

[showjumpers66]

I would cross the Irish horses with TBs, but probably not Holsteiner or Dutch Warmbloods. But that is just my preference. I think the type is too different. I agree that the Irish horses are very special.

[WhatzUp]

Which ID's show up in KWPN stallions ?
I must admit I have never seen any. Ever.
That seems like a strange move for the
dutch breeders seeking KWPN approval for
their stallions in my mind.

Interesting to note that many of the horses
qualified (and going) to the Olympics in the
jumping discipline (I can not say for dressage
as I have not looked closely but would not be
at all surprised if they too were flush with
dutch bloodlines !) have bloodlines from many
of the KWPN stallions suggested thus far.

The dutch are obviously doing something right !

Actually, Gettin Jiggy With It (posting above)
stands at stud the only Calvados son that
I know of in North America ! He was selected for
the 70 day test in Ermello ! www.kvf.ca (http://www.kvf.ca))

Tempranillo 2000 Bay 16.3HH
(Calvados x Damiro x Transvaal x Millerole xx)

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[showjumpers66]

Although, Bits and Pieces, many of those Dutch horses (especially in the jumpers) are actually Holsteiner or have a strong Holsteiner influence.

[sil]

Please tell me what you think of this cross of mare, she has Landgraf as a grandsire, with Cor de la Byrere on paternal dam's side, and Cantus on dam's side as a grandsire.

I am waiting (hoping!) they will put her to their stallion who is line bred Cor de la Byrere sometime.

I am not a showjumper but I love to see them go! I would like to know what crossing these lines mean, after reading all the excellent comments and links posted on this thread.

[gillenwaterfarm]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Which ID's show up in KWPN stallions ?
I must admit I have never seen any. Ever.
That seems like a strange move for the
dutch breeders seeking KWPN approval for
their stallions in my mind.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was told by three different breeders in Ireland that the Dutch imported Irish mares by the HUNDREDS in the 70's and 80's. One breeder had sold no less then 20 mares there in the 70's alone. Those mares were then given KWPN #'s and names, so the history is lost. I'm not sure about any stallions imported, but mares were, without a doubt.

The Belgans also have imported Irish mares in mass, or so those same breeders told me.

The registries won't allow the blood now, but man, it sure was in great demand a while back!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
If I had a great jumping TB mare that needed proven GP producing lines AND more bone/ a better hind end I would personally look to Ireland. Of course I'm a bit biased there but it is a very proven cross for producing just that. The Irish breeding program produces a very high number of GP horses/breeding. As far as I know it's the highest percentage in the world per mare bred. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as Irish studs go, be careful and do your research into the bloodlines of the stallion you choose. The Irish are now heavily into crossing the ISH mares on Dutch stock. There are two excellent RID stallions here in North America that are both doing extremly well in the jumpers and dressage.

KEC Double Diamond (http://www.adsagsona.com/Adsagsona/Career.htm)

O'Learys Irish Diamond (http://www.irishdraughthorse.com/)

And then you have the many halfbreds out there doing GP's...
Clover Cliste, Coolcorron Cool Diamond, Cruising, to name a few. Check out the stallions listed here (http://irishdraught.com/stallions.html)

[silver]

what gillen said. Enormous numbers of Irish horses were exported to the continent and on occasion http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif their names were changed. I have been told this first hand by both Irish and German breeders. I have seen some outstanding ID/Trak and ID/KWPN crosses.

Carlow Clover (http://www.acornhillfarm.com/stallions/index.php?stallion=carlowclover) is bred up the yin yang and I have been following his career with interest. I think he's going to be somthing else. He's really well bred!

This stud is a classic example of ID/WB breeding in Ireland although they are crossing the other way. Morningside Stud (http://www.morningside-stud.com/newspr.html)

[Paula]

Here is a link (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=3206053911&m=762603202&r=762603202#762603202)to the thread I posted to some really cute pictures of an Irish Draught foal by KEC Double Diamond out of a Dutch mare. Really nice boy!

[silver]

And here's a timely thread from the eventing board (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=2096094911&m=770207933) showing a posters newly purchased Tinka's Boy/ ID stallion.

She says he's registered Dutch too... I don't understand a thing about the registry process so you'll have to ask her!

[Future Breeder]

I came to post my suggestions, but after reading everything, I have to say the stallions I had planned on suggesting have already been talked about! Many thanks to Exitpoint and sj66 for the VERY informative posts.. I love reading and researching bloodlines.

[tom]

Silver, Thank you for noticing what we are doing here in Ireland!

Our approach has been to buy only top-class warmblood stallions approved on the continent and to cross them with excellent mares. (We also bring in semen from the continent for our dressage and eventing breeding programs.) Most of our mares are KWPN but we also have a couple of Holsteiners, a Danish Warmblood, a Trakehner, a thoroughbred, and several Irish Sport Horse mares.

I have heard many times the story of Irish mares being exported to Holland, Germany, etc. and getting re-registered and losing their Irish identities. I honestly do not think this really happened in large numbers. Both Jan Pedersen, the chairman of the Danish Warmblood Society and the World Breeding Federation for Sport Horses, and Jaap Werners, who for 11 years was chairman of the KWPN's stallion inspection committee, were asked about this during two different international breeders conferences we held in Ireland. Both were dismissive of the idea -- in fact, they seemed bemused and befuddled at the thought.

The KWPN does allow "Irish" horses into the studbook. Most of the foals out of my Irish mares, for example, are registered with the KWPN. In fact, 11 of our 12 foals this year will be registered with the KWPN. We hope to produce 30 foals next year and probably all of them will be KWPN registered.

What the KWPN does NOT want is Irish Draught breeding in their approved stallion gene pool. I was told that the fabulous international showjumper and very good sire Cruising was turned down for approval by the KWPN because of the Irish Draught in his bloodlines. The commission believed that introducing ID bloodlines in a major way into their gene pool had the potential to take them off-course in the "type" of horse they want to produce.

I think people who want to breed Registered Irish Draught horses should get on with it, do a good job, and the Irish Horse Board should strive to protect the breed and help the breeders.

But those of us who want to breed world-class showjumping, eventing, and dressage horses in Ireland know that one needs to be ecumenical on matters of bloodlines, and to search out the best genes wherever they can be found.

Regarding showjumpers66 statement that "I would cross the Irish horses with TBs, but probably not Holsteiner or Dutch Warmbloods" I would point to the amazing results achieved by the Holsteiner-bred stallion Cavalier Royale in Ireland. He produced many international jumpers and eventers before his death a few years ago, and if it were not for his contributions Ireland probably would not be ranked today by the WBFSH as a top-10 showjumping producer.

[flshgordon]

Just thought I would add my vote for Landkonig as well. I have a 2003 filly by him that is just the most wonderful horse I could have asked for. She has excellent conformation and the most amazing temperament. She is also fearless! I just can't say enough wonderful things about this stallion. He really really improved the hind end over my mare as well and as soon as she walked into her inspection the inspector said "this must be the Landkonig filly--he really stamps them". I couldn't be more pleased with my filly and I would definitely breed to him again.

[showjumpers66]

The Landgraf I / Cor de la Bryere cross was a very popular and successful cross. Cantus is by Caletto I and out of a Roman mare (Cor de la Bryere / Ramzes lines). If your mare is already double Cor de la Bryere, I would not breed her to a line bred Cor de la Bryere stallion. Cor de la Bryere is probably the most prevelant stallion in the modern Holsteiner pedigree and you will have a hard time outcrossing your mare while staying with Holsteiners.

The stallion Canturo is by Cantus out of a Calando (Cor de la Bryere) / Landego mare.

You might consider Carolus I (Capitol I / Roman) or Alcatraz (Aloube Z / Ronald) for your mare. The Ramiro Z / Alme Z crosses would probably work wonderfully with this mare. Radjah Z, Robin Z, and Royal Z are available in the US.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sil:
Please tell me what you think of this cross of mare, she has Landgraf as a grandsire, with Cor de la Byrere on paternal dam's side, and Cantus on dam's side as a grandsire.

I am waiting (hoping!) they will put her to their stallion who is line bred Cor de la Byrere sometime.

I am not a showjumper but I love to see them go! I would like to know what crossing these lines mean, after reading all the excellent comments and links posted on this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[silver]

Tom I grew up in Ireland and still entertain fantasies of returning home and buying a little farm http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Two years ago I broke a ID/TB stallion for a friend and remembered what I loved about the breed. Easiest horse in the world to deal with and he's going to be a VERY nice jumper!

That is interesting what you say about the importation of Irish horses to the continent. I know that I heard it was mostly "hunter" type mares (so crosses or mainly TB) and that many of them were actually sold to England or Italy and then sold on. I heard that many years ago though, so who knows.

[tom]

That little farm is going to cost you US$15,000 or more per acre. Let me know if you win the lotto and I'll go farm hunting with you!

I'm sure many mares were exported out of Ireland but I suspect most went as hunters, not as broodmares. England and Italy would be two of the least successful sport horse breeding countries in the EU.

Where did you grow up in Ireland?

[mbp]

Some additional (after the ***) links/info on some of the stallions you mentioned

ARAM -- deceased dutch stallion by Nimmerdor, sire of Olympic Gold Medalist De Sjiem. (www.majesticgaits.com (http://www.majesticgaits.com)) (www.members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/nevadapedigree.html (http://www.members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/nevadapedigree.html))
***Also of note, DeSjiem was from a part tb mare


BALOUBET DE ROULET
***As with Quick Star below, a Galoubet offspring, shown to highest GP levels by R. Pessoa.


CARPACCIO -- P 3
*** by Caretino
CARENTINO -- P 3
***Karen Reid with Fox Fire Farm handles his frozen. A lovely stallion, but I do not believe he would necessarily add height for you. Link: http://www.foxfirefarm.us/ She also handles Linaro - available fresh now.



CENTO -- [Heike Albert, GW Ranch]
***link: http://gwranch.users.ixpres.com/ Winner of GP Aachen, Capitol- CalettoII-Cor de. The Caletto II dam line gave us that other "Classy" Olympic winner, Classic Touch. GW also carries the frozen for Lando - Landgraf on top and Ramiro on bottom, himself an Olympic silver medalist.


CONCORDE
***Additional info on the Team Nijhoff site link: http://www.team-nijhof.nl/


CORRADO I -- P 3
***Karen Reid handles his frozen, see her site under Caretino above.

!! FUERST GOTTARD
***Rainbow Equus link: http://www.rainbowequus.com/ has Fuerst Gotthard, Landkonig and Pablo (as well as Pablito, his son) Pablo and Iroko (below) both are by Pilot.

G RAMIRO Z
*** deceased, the Z is found in the names of horses that were with Zangersheide (darn - sp??? I never get it right)

HEARTBREAKER -- by Nimmerdor
See Nijhoff site http://www.team-nijhof.nl/

HEISMAN
***Along with Voltaire one of the Furioso II sons recommended, great jumper, but is he still standing? If so, would he add the height? Super credentials.

!!IROKO --Dutch stallion by Pilot, consistantly in top 10 jumper stallions, in US for rest of 2004 (http://personal.monad.net/~ctolman/, Sire of The Fly. Available by fresh semen, they think.
*** Another Pilot son

! LANDKONIG -- stamps his foals, has a great hind end with good bone, incredible jumper,
***See Rainbow Equus under Fuerst Gotthard
LANDLORD
***A son of Landgraf. His frozen link would be http://swedishwarmblood.org/swana/Brokers/stalcat.htm He is the sire of Gandini Lianos competed by R. Pessoa, winners of 1998 WEG, has many GP horses and multiple World Cup offspring, high jumping BLUPs and typically adds height. Check and see about the frozen programs for Landlord and Robin Z. At one time, only a booking fee was paid until the are was in foal with frozen, making them a bit of a safer bet for a first time frozen user, IMO.


LINARO -- by Landgraf. "favorite stallion, period"
***See link for Karen Reid and Foxfire under Caretino.


PABLO
***Rainbow Equus, by Pilot

QUICK STAR, by Galoubet, by Alme


ROBIN Z -- sire of Butterfly Flip, top Swedish jumper and has c. 15 offspring who has competer at GP level.
***another example of the Ramiro/Alme nick His frozen link is http://swedishwarmblood.org/swana/Brokers/stalcat.htm

! VOLTAIRE
See Nijhoff site - also for Burggraaf http://www.team-nijhof.nl/
---------------------------------

[silver]

I grew up near Dublin, but my family is mainly from the northwest.

Where I live now in the US a little farm would unfortunately cost far more than that. Up to a $1m. The farms near me have 10 horses/acre easily and have to rotate turning out in little paddocks. Not to mention feeding hay at up to $10/bale and paying for water! Horse-keeping is horrendously expensive in the western US. To get cheaper land and water you have to move hours from civilisation, at which point you promptly lose all your clients.

Probably why I do not work in the horse biz http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[can't re-]

Congrats LH on your new mare.

Great topic, and excellent stallions mentioned!



Here's a pic I just love of Heisman. (I happen to have a mare in foal to him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

[sil]

My gosh!! I am going to stop complaining about the price of land here right NOW!

You can get a tidy, established horse property with indoors arena, and about 40 acres, 50 mins from the city for around $700,000.

Something less flash about 20 acres in outer suburbs (1/2 an hour) is around $400,000.

[showjumpers66]

Hey, maybe y' all ought to move to Oklahoma! sil, cut those numbers in half!

Here is my dream place ...

Never Sweat Thoroughbred Farm (http://www.neversweatthoroughbreds.com/aboutourhorseran.html)

192 acres of pipe fenced, rolling acres dotted with trees just 30 minutes from Tulsa and 60 minutes from Oklahoma City. 3300 sq ft house, certified airstrip (hmmm ... it can go), 7 large stallion paddocks with run-in sheds, 10 stall foaling barn with attached mare pasture and closed circuit cameras, lab, tack room, feed room, horse walker, round pen, hay pastures, 2 pastures with run-in sheds, etc. All for the low price of $1.5 million! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[WhatzUp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The KWPN does allow "Irish" horses into the studbook. Most of the foals out of my Irish mares, for example, are registered with the KWPN. In fact, 11 of our 12 foals this year will be registered with the KWPN. We hope to produce 30 foals next year and probably all of them will be KWPN registered.

What the KWPN does NOT want is Irish Draught breeding in their approved stallion gene pool. I was told that the fabulous international showjumper and very good sire Cruising was turned down for approval by the KWPN because of the Irish Draught in his bloodlines. The commission believed that introducing ID bloodlines in a major way into their gene pool had the potential to take them off-course in the "type" of horse they want to produce.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Tom, that's what I thought !

Yours in sport,

Lynn

[sbock]

Congrats LordHelpUs. I'm soo happy for you. My vote would be for Indoctro fro the VDL stud in Holland. I had a SF mare (Galoubet/Adith) and bred her to Indoctro. Her colt (now 2) is breath taking. Let us know what you do. Sbock.

[raffey1]

Quidam de Revel is certainly among the most able producers of jumping horses of international quality and is currently available for frozen semen breeding if cost and risk thereof do not bother you. ( I am a gambling fool, but it was a little out on a limb even for me the way it is currently set up.) Quidam is currently ranked number one of showjumping sires of the world in my most recent international magazine.

[Tweeds-n-Kip]

Every consider going Irish? The young stallion USA Cruising is rumored to throw great youngsters, with tons of athleticism.

[danskbreeder]

I am just getting through this thread but thought I'd mention to Stallions Whose bloodlines are mentioned several times. One is Royal Z II with that incredible and reliable combination os Ramiro and Alme and the other is Andiamo who is Absatz/Furioso II. I have offspring from both of these stallions and can attest to their work ethic.

Erica
www.danishwarmblood.com (http://www.danishwarmblood.com)

[Sacha]

Another vote for Argentinus - his son Arko is going to the Olympics with the GB team this year, and totally blew me away in the flesh.

Also for Cordalme Z, again because his son Coluer Rubin is on my definative short list for the future. What a great style he has.

[Rocky XVI]

Coming into the discussion a little late, but I would like to bring your attention to Concorde. He was named "KWPN Horse of the Year 2004" for his proven ability to stamp his offspring with remarkable carfulness, quickness off the ground, and power in the canter and when jumping.

article (http://www.kwpn.nl/html/uk/articles/concorde.pdf)

We have a mare by Concorde, and she shows all these qualities. In our own breeding, I have found carefulness to be an elusive quality that many stallions may or may not pass on. With Concorde, there is more of a surety that the offspring will have this characteristic, which is so essential over today's technical courses.

[BravAddict]

Ooo ooo ooo!! Pick For Pleasure!
Too bad about him hurting himself, he's my absolute favoritest in the whole wide world.
His sire is Furioso II, and when I talked to NASFA people, they said their breeding requirements were only 50% French blood and that would give it to you, if you wanted a Selle Francais. I'm thinking that most studbooks wouldn't turn down a foal from a mare like that!