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View Full Version : Horse trailer as moving van: Some real numbers



mvp
Aug. 24, 2011, 08:50 AM
Y'all who pencil whip stuff like this all the time: will you help me not blow up my truck/kill other people?

The plan: F-350 will pull the 2H BH DR with all my crap 3,000 and over the Rockies. It's heavy. Too heavy?

Here are the real numbers:

CAT scale says the whole shebang weights #13,860.

From the door of the truck:

GVWR #9,990 (and "light weight is #6,400") So the truck weighs which number, or these are what the truck and carbo/hauler can handle? (That doesn't make sense to me.)

Trailer, from the manufacture's plate with the VIN and whatnot:

GAWR (all axels) #3,500. I think this is total dry weight for the trailer.

GVWR is #8,550. So this trailer can be packed with up to #5,050 of crap?

Crunch that all up for me. I think I might be #400 over weight. Yes? No? other stuff to consider?

It feels heavy. It feels like I can drive it (start AND STOP) but that will take some skill and thought.

hosspuller
Aug. 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Here are the real numbers:

CAT scale says the whole shebang weights #13,860.

From the door of the truck:

GVWR #9,990 (and "light weight is #6,400") So the truck weighs which number, or these are what the truck and carbo/hauler can handle? (That doesn't make sense to me.)

Trailer, from the manufacture's plate with the VIN and whatnot:

GAWR (all axels) #3,500. I think this is total dry weight for the trailer.

GVWR is #8,550. So this trailer can be packed with up to #5,050 of crap?

.

GVWR #9,990 Means the total weight of the LOADED truck.


GAWR (all axels) #3,500. Means the rated capacity of the trailer axles.

GVWR is #8,550. Means the total weight of the loaded trailer.

Look in your truck's manual. Find the GCVWR ... (Gross Combined Weight Rating) if it's less than 13,860 you're okay... if the axle loading is spread properly

birdsong
Aug. 24, 2011, 12:22 PM
Its the downhill that will get you!!

Personal Champ
Aug. 24, 2011, 12:30 PM
I would do it.

Previous poster is right about the combined weight being what you will need.

However - I have a F350 V10 SRW (non dually) and regularly haul a 4 horse Featherlite. Loaded. With Big Horses. And a Full Water Tank. And Lots Of Crap.

Estimate trailer + trailer load alone is about 11,000 pounds and the truck has no problem. My truck weighs about 6500, guessing. It is tagged up for the extra weight (think it's weight class 5?) so if I get pulled over I don't have to cry to get out of a ticket. The truck doesn't struggle to stop, start or turn.

mvp
Aug. 24, 2011, 04:59 PM
GVWR #9,990 Means the total weight of the LOADED truck.


GAWR (all axels) #3,500. Means the rated capacity of the trailer axles.

GVWR is #8,550. Means the total weight of the loaded trailer.

Look in your truck's manual. Find the GCVWR ... (Gross Combined Weight Rating) if it's less than 13,860 you're okay... if the axle loading is spread properly

Thanks! Did the research. Ford says the GCVWR is 20,000#; max trailer weight is 10,000#.

I'm good-- for the truck at least-- because all of us will weigh perhaps 15,000#, including the two people and stuff down to the 32 Big Gulps in the drink holder.

So the truck weights 6,400#? Which means the 7,400# or so comes for the trailer? That's ok, but closer to the trailer's 8,550# limit than I'd like. Have I inferred the truck's weight right?


Its the downhill that will get you!!

You know it, I know it, my butt knows it. Other drivers may not know it.


I would do it.

Previous poster is right about the combined weight being what you will need.

However - I have a F350 V10 SRW (non dually) and regularly haul a 4 horse Featherlite. Loaded. With Big Horses. And a Full Water Tank. And Lots Of Crap.

Estimate trailer + trailer load alone is about 11,000 pounds and the truck has no problem. My truck weighs about 6500, guessing. It is tagged up for the extra weight (think it's weight class 5?) so if I get pulled over I don't have to cry to get out of a ticket. The truck doesn't struggle to stop, start or turn.

That's what I thought, too. Just eyeballing it, I don't think a total weight of 13,860 for a 1 ton truck and horse trailer of crap should be maxing anything out.

This is a 7.3L diesel. Weird to feel this truck work a bit. (It does have aftermarket gauges and a chip I can use to change things. That's another story for another thread. The gauges are great for towing.)

frisky
Aug. 24, 2011, 05:21 PM
Over ten years ago, I loaded all my stuff which maybe not that much at the time! in my trailer with the couch (as dog bed) in the back of the truck and hauled from NC to OR. Truck was 2500 chev pu and trailer was a (very light) 2h bumper w/ dressing room. I don't know the exact weight, but it just didn't seem to be that heavy. Not remotely a problem. Besides, furniture is not comparable to moving beasts. It was an easy haul for me. I can't imagine you'd have a problem. I didn't go through the rockies though.

The horse went by van.

clanter
Aug. 24, 2011, 06:13 PM
appears you are overlooking the trailer axles of "GAWR (all axels) #3,500".

a tandem axle trailer with 3500 axles will only carry 7000# not the 8550#

Also check the rating of the trailer tires... it will be a Class rating A, B, C and so on... each class has a specific load rating seperate from axles or anthing else

mvp
Aug. 24, 2011, 06:15 PM
appears you are overlooking the trailer axles of "GAWR (all axels) #3,500".

a tandem axle trailer with 3500 axles will only carry 7000# not the 8550#

Also check the rating of the trailer tires... it will be a Class rating A, B, C and so on... each class has a specific load rating seperate from axles or anthing else

Could be that I'm overtaxing the trailer. The GVWR 8,550 number came from the trailer manufacture's plate. I think the 3,500# means the total dry (unloaded) weight of the trailer, distributed over both axles.

The tires on this (OEM) are Load Range D.

clanter
Aug. 24, 2011, 06:25 PM
Load Range: D (8-ply rating) Max. Capacity: 2,540 lbs. times four = 10,160#

checked inflation ... many tires for trailers are at 65 psi...cold…. Info will be on the side wall of the tire

hosspuller
Aug. 24, 2011, 08:10 PM
Could be that I'm overtaxing the trailer. The GVWR 8,550 number came from the trailer manufacture's plate. I think the 3,500# means the total dry (unloaded) weight of the trailer, distributed over both axles.

The tires on this (OEM) are Load Range D.

GAWR is Gross Axle Weight Rating. Each of your trailer axles is rated for 3500 pounds. If your tires can't bear 1750 pounds each then you must derate to the tire rating. Think of a chain... The weakest link determines the chain strength.

The trailer manufacturer is assuming 1550 pounds tongue weight on the truck to get to 8550 GVWR. Not likely...maybe with a WD hitch. but you didn't mention that.

mvp
Aug. 24, 2011, 08:55 PM
Load Range: D (8-ply rating) Max. Capacity: 2,540 lbs. times four = 10,160#

checked inflation ... many tires for trailers are at 65 psi...cold…. Info will be on the side wall of the tire

You are right about the tires. Printed right there on the side, 65 psi. Tire Dork at a store told me that I should get close to the full 65 for best weight-bearing. That will create a rougher ride, but for my boxes o' crap rather than horses, no problem.


GAWR is Gross Axle Weight Rating. Each of your trailer axles is rated for 3500 pounds. If your tires can't bear 1750 pounds each then you must derate to the tire rating. Think of a chain... The weakest link determines the chain strength.

The trailer manufacturer is assuming 1550 pounds tongue weight on the truck to get to 8550 GVWR. Not likely...maybe with a WD hitch. but you didn't mention that.

Good point! No WD hitch. That and stabilizer bars would help in this case. In all other cases, the 1-ton doesn't seem to need the WD hitch and bars to take good care of the trailer.

I tried to pack it with the heaviest stuff over the axles, hoping to minimize tongue weight while the whole thing was getting heavy. It does make the 1-ton squat a bit in a way that it does not with regular horses and equipment don't.

So, my friends, are we back to my Load Range D tires being over-loaded? clanter, you think they can cut the mustard, right?

deltawave
Aug. 25, 2011, 08:09 AM
It wouldn't necessarily deter me, but every trailer I've owned has had a plaque somewhere indicating that using the trailer for anything other than hauling livestock was not approved and (IIRC) there was some threat of voiding any warranties.

But I will admit to hauling bags of shavings in my trailer. :lol: And in the old days when I had no choice, the odd bit of furniture and general merchandise. :D

Personal Champ
Aug. 25, 2011, 08:18 AM
DH said he would do it, too - and he used to drive tractor trailer, and still hauls various machinery, etc.

Gotta ask - which chip?? DH has a F550 that used to be a dump, now has a hauler body on it. His best friend is a diesel mechanic. We have the 4 gauges and get custom tunes built for the truck from a guy in... TX, maybe? A hot tune, tow tune, street tune. Very cool!

mvp
Aug. 25, 2011, 10:21 AM
It wouldn't necessarily deter me, but every trailer I've owned has had a plaque somewhere indicating that using the trailer for anything other than hauling livestock was not approved and (IIRC) there was some threat of voiding any warranties.

But I will admit to hauling bags of shavings in my trailer. :lol: And in the old days when I had no choice, the odd bit of furniture and general merchandise. :D

Hehe! My trailer manufacturer-- great company killed off in the recession-- didn't think of that. The company is dead. The trailer is 12 years old (but Cherry and beloved, I'll have you know), so no one with warrantees or deep pockets is involved. I'm just trying to be smart about getting safely from Point A to Point B.



Gotta ask - which chip?? DH has a F550 that used to be a dump, now has a hauler body on it. His best friend is a diesel mechanic. We have the 4 gauges and get custom tunes built for the truck from a guy in... TX, maybe? A hot tune, tow tune, street tune. Very cool!

Don't get excited. My truck came with a Diablo Predator Sport. It's less sexy and customized than a tuner built by a diesel-software guru. Those will give better performance but also be a bit more trouble to work with. There are a few guys who build these and they have "on a first name basis" reputations on some of the diesel forums.

I will repeat an important piece of wisdom that I learned from the COTH of Diesel Forums. You *must* install a minimal set of gauges that monitor parts of your engine before you go chipping it up to modify performance.

Those gauges-- one that measures exhaust gas temp (think engine temperature but more accurate than your in-dash gauge), and tranny temp (temp of the oil circulating through the transmission) are the minimal ones I'd want for what "we" do with our trucks hauling horses. Most dieselers also get one that measures turbo boost in psi to round out the basic set.

These gauges are great for people who ask their trucks to work a little too hard while towing-- even if you don't modify anything and if, say, you bought a 1/2 ton gasser and hoped it would kinda sorta work for your heavy trailer. You can also use them to trouble-shoot a bit. You know how parts of your engine are doing before they stop working in a big way. Last, the Diablo chip I have has a basic code reader. This is a cheap/basic version of the very, very expensive things your mechanic has. If you are so inclined, you can plug these into a truck and see what its computer thinks is wrong with it or what has ever been wrong and fixed.

Good times with the aftermarket doohickies. The folks on the Diesel Forums are great-- they know their stuff and generous with it.

Forte
Aug. 26, 2011, 01:58 AM
I did this recently. Moved from Vancouver to Ottawa and loaded all of my furniture and belongings into my steel 2 horse BP trailer with dressing room. Pulled it with my Chev Silverado 2500 HD Diesel. The truck bed, trailer and dressing room were FULL. It hauled like a dream even going up and down the rockies.

Personal Champ
Aug. 26, 2011, 09:06 AM
I will repeat an important piece of wisdom that I learned from the COTH of Diesel Forums. You *must* install a minimal set of gauges that monitor parts of your engine before you go chipping it up to modify performance.

Those gauges-- one that measures exhaust gas temp (think engine temperature but more accurate than your in-dash gauge), and tranny temp (temp of the oil circulating through the transmission) are the minimal ones I'd want for what "we" do with our trucks hauling horses. Most dieselers also get one that measures turbo boost in psi to round out the basic set.

These gauges are great for people who ask their trucks to work a little too hard while towing-- even if you don't modify anything and if, say, you bought a 1/2 ton gasser and hoped it would kinda sorta work for your heavy trailer. You can also use them to trouble-shoot a bit. You know how parts of your engine are doing before they stop working in a big way. Last, the Diablo chip I have has a basic code reader. This is a cheap/basic version of the very, very expensive things your mechanic has. If you are so inclined, you can plug these into a truck and see what its computer thinks is wrong with it or what has ever been wrong and fixed.

Good times with the aftermarket doohickies. The folks on the Diesel Forums are great-- they know their stuff and generous with it.

We frequent Power Stroke Nation.

DH's 6 liter has 4 gauges... tranny temp, EGTs, oil pressure and boost, in addition to the standard ones, of course. Also 200 50% over sticks, springs, head studs, Banks hi-ram and soon to be a new turbo. I thnk that's it... hard time keeping track!

Back to the regularly scheduled programming - did you decide to go for it with the trailer?

judybigredpony
Aug. 26, 2011, 10:05 AM
But its still weight not shifting moving live weight and that does make a significant change in how you will drive.
I would go for it...

mvp
Aug. 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
Unless things change re: the rest of my life, I'm going. Good to know that you all here and folks in PM world think I haven't created a wreck-in-becoming. I wouldn't think so either given the relatively small trailer and large truck, but it would be stupid not to ask and then get a little education along the way.

I will let y'all know how it works out. The 12# cat may be biggest buzz-kill of the whole trip.

Personal Champ
Aug. 27, 2011, 10:19 PM
You never know. My 16# cat loves the truck. Sits on the headrest in the back and watches the world go by!!

He is kinda odd tho... LOL.

mvp
Sep. 6, 2011, 10:21 PM
You never know. My 16# cat loves the truck. Sits on the headrest in the back and watches the world go by!!

He is kinda odd tho... LOL.

I'd pay good money for a Truck Cat. The bigger the better. They're a rare breed. You are lucky.

I'm counting on the Old Lady 12#-er to just get tired and finally accept her fate. Maybe somewhere in Ohio she'll just give up. Wouldn't it suck if she got her second wind in Denver and started complaining again?

BasqueMom
Sep. 6, 2011, 10:53 PM
We stuffed our Circle J steel two horse slant with dressing room bumper pull
with stuff when we moved from CO to TX. Don't think we weighed it any where along the line. Back of the truck (camper shell had some suitcases and two large dog crates with kitties in it) had little weight in it.

It definitely felt different than with two horses in it. We thought we probably
had more weight in the dressing room than normal and it was pressing harder on the hitch. We made it safely but would rethink it the next time.

We have hauled hay in the back before, as much as could stuff, but didn't have
much or any in the dressing room.

Truck was/is a 1996 F250 with the 7.3L diesel engine and was young at the time, maybe 60,000 miles.