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Sure I'm Famous
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:30 PM
I rode a new horse on Friday that I just recently purchased - he's a 3yo and lightly started. Never had a bucking, spooking or rearing problem with the trainer. I put my hunt seat saddle on him and she seemed girthy (he isn't usually) and then I lunged him and he was fine. I went to get on him and he was very funny in not wanting to walk forward, would take a few steps and back up. He took about a total of 10 steps and stood straight up on his hind end. I landed in a big heap -luckily nothing was broken and I had my helmet on!

The gelding just stepped over me calmly (I landed between his front and back legs) and stood right next to me. Never even a spook out of hIM.

Well, in my book that totally makes a horse a LOSER! So I called the trainer and told her and said I want to send him back! She was horrified (she's a well-known and respected trainer) and said this had NEVER happened before.

Last night my friend (who rides a lot of young horses) got on him with just a western work saddle and the horse was perfect. Not the least bit girthy. They had a great ride!

So now I'm wondering if I should push to send this horse back or let my friend ride her for a month or so until I decide if I ever want to get back on (at the moment I don't) but he's a SUPER horse.

I did have a Thinline pad under the saddle and he is very high-withered, so could that have been it?

What should I do??? I'm SOOOOO upset! Is this a complete no-go horse?? I've ridden lots of horses over the years (I'm 40+) and have been riding my entire life, so I'm not a beginner, but I don't want to get hurt any more!!!

NEEDS A NAP
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:33 PM
The first thing I would do is decide if the horse is a gelding or a mare.

If the former, I would refer to is as "he."

If the latter, as "she."

Sorry, it's been a long hot day. You're going to have a hard time getting a serious answer to your question if you can't even match gender to pronoun when referring to your horse.

joiedevie99
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:35 PM
I would bet quite a large sum of money that your saddle doesn't fit- and was causing the horse some pain.

SEPowell
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:35 PM
If he's only three and the saddle doesn't fit that could absolutely cause him to rear. So sorry you had this experience, but if he's not rearing with other saddles that may be your problem.

onelanerode
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:35 PM
One rear does not make a horse a bad actor. Are you working with a good trainer, one who has lots of experience with young horses? If you aren't, you might want to start, at least until you and your new horse get to know each other better and young horse is perhaps not quite so green.

That hunt seat saddle may simply not have fit him well, and being a baby, he may have thought the best way to let you know was to rear. The Western work saddle may have been a better fit. Or maybe you did something funny that he wasn't used to when you got on, and your friend didn't. Sometimes it can be tough to tell with babies what's really bothering them, and their reactions to things aren't always "proportional" because they haven't yet learned what is a big deal and what is a Really Big Deal.

For now? Make absolutely sure your saddle fits him. If he's still offering to go up, get a good trainer involved. (Personally I'd get a good trainer involved anyway, but that's just me ... some horses form habits more easily than others, and rearing is not something I would want to risk becoming a habit, so I'd be doing everything in my power to figure out what triggered this and how to avoid a repeat performance.)

Sure I'm Famous
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:36 PM
Thanks.

netg
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:38 PM
Sounds like new horse and old saddle are a bad match, not that new horse is a bad horse.

pryme_thyme
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:40 PM
Agreed, saddle fit.

If not saddle fit;
Have a lesson with this trainer in her tack, she knows him/her. The 3 y/o mind has not experienced much, if you did or do something completely different from what your trainer or friend did, this could have made him or her react.

Could be as simple as you being taller or shorter than friend and trainer.... Give the horse a chance. My 3 y/o bucked on me all of two or three times, never again because I didn't let her get away with it. Now she is a saint u/s. (for a 3 y/o :lol:)

Sure I'm Famous
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:41 PM
Ok. This horse literally just came from the trainers - and she is usually there when I ride most times. But when I was trying out this gelding it was with her there of course, and things were fine. But I do ride on my own at times, and this was one of those times!

It was a horrible experience, and I ended up in the ER for 2 hours getting xrays of my hip and elbow, but thankfully I'm just bruised. But I am scared! I've brought two other young horses along over the years, and maybe I've been lucky, but rearing is something that I've never encountered.

I must admit it freaked me out completely! Maybe I'm not cut out for a 3yo again...but he's so cool in every other way!

Manni01
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:42 PM
You said, he is a 3 year old and lightly started.. Then you described his girthiness... At this point already I would have been alarmed if it would have been my horse...

With a young horse you just have to be aware of any sign which might indicate trouble....


Maybe I would have just lunged him on a day like this. I have had a whole bunch of young horses over the last years and I´m elderly and very easy scared... So I just try to read my horses and try very hard to avoid any situations which I might be in the weaker position....
I think any situation which puts me in the looser position is bad... I try to avoid it before it happens.......
I´m strong in situations which I´m confident off... This way my horse never gets to know my weaknesses (hopefully)

Velvet
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:46 PM
I'd also bet it was the saddle fit. If he was being pinched he would not go forward. I am also going to say that if you can't judge the saddle fit and you are dealing with a young horse, you might want to consider getting your money back and buying an older horse that can teach you. You are bound to run into more training issues that you can't solve yourself and get in more dangerous positions until you are better trained as a horse person. It's the older horses that are generally more forgiving. Start with one of those!

atlatl
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:49 PM
I'm 50+ and also have a relatively new horse. Things were getting a little more exciting than I liked, no rearing though, and I decided that I was at the point in my life that certain things, like BIG SPOOKS and BOLTS just weren't fun anymore even if I was staying on. Add to this that I work fulltime and ride in the evenings when it's cooler, darker and fewer people around.

My solution was to put him in training. We are making much faster progress than "home schooling" and he's happier in a program and I'm happier with him in a program with a great pro who is including lessons for me on him in the deal.

Give your horse a chance to be successful. If you are afraid, it's just a recipe for disaster. There's nothing wrong with being scared, sometimes it is exactly the right way to feel. If you can't or don't want to get help, give him a chance somewhere else.

A competent pro can also determine if the saddle fits

meupatdoes
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:51 PM
Before you call the horse a loser in all capital letters I would suggest spending the money to get his saddle fit evaluated by a professional.

You will find that ensuring his comfort under tack is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Char
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:53 PM
Another vote for ditching your current saddle. Also, another vote for getting on a program with a trainer. Even if you are doing all of the riding, taking 2-3 lessons a week can really speed up the process. :)

mzm farm
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:58 PM
Some horses and people are wonderful creatures, separately, but do not make a good team. Does not make either party a bad individual, just not the right match.

If you do not want to get hurt anymore, want to have fun, and you are scared of this horse, DO NOT get back on him. Young horses are especially sensitive, they have not learned to "filter" our unintended messages yet, and respond to many signals we don't intend to send, nor aware that we are sending.

I have started a youngster that would stop from any gait if you held your breath for a split second, add leg - and you get a sliding stop, add reins and you are asking for a rear/flip. She is a lovely calm individual now, but it took very tactful and purposefully controlled and relaxed riding to get her there. She just REALLY wanted to do what was asked of her, NOW :) sometimes before one was aware of fully asking. LOL

Can you ride with the trainer at all times until you are quite sure of saddle fit and have regained your confidence? Or work on rehoming the horse to a more suitable match.

naturalequus
Aug. 15, 2011, 06:57 PM
With all due respect, I honestly really have a hard time taking any of your post seriously. Your calling your horse a 'LOSER' really irked me the most. That said, I'll add my $0.02 in the event you're not simply a troll. Hopefully I'm not wasting my time, but *shrug* I guess right now I have lots of it anyway :winkgrin:

Rearing, bucking - these are behaviours horses make in response to something. While there may be no prior history of these behaviours, the right stimuli/factors to invoke such a response might not have been present in the past, where they are now. Your horse is honestly responding to something, so it's your job to figure out and address the root issue rather than labeling him a loser in all-caps. I highly suggest seeking the help and knowledge of a professional in this case.

If he seemed girthy when you first tacked him up, that was your first red flag. Red flag #2 was his not wanting to go forward. There were definitely other signs he gave you but when you ignored them, he had no choice but to escalate his communication to you - in this case, to rear.

I second having your saddle fit checked for fit by a professional saddle fitter (even two). If your friend and new horse clicked and she is a good trainer who can successfully bring along young horses, allow her to work with him and progress him. When you work with him yourself, do so under the guidance of an instructor with experience working with young horses. If he is not appropriate for your level of knowledge (which is the direction I am leaning toward based on your response), I do recommend sending him back or selling him (perhaps through the trainer you purchased him from); you are then free to find a horse more suitable to your level of knowledge (and as already mentioned, there certainly is absolutely no shame in that).

"There are no problem horses, only problem riders" - it's always more about us than it is the horse.

Do what's best by your horse and yourself. Good luck :)

Lost_at_C
Aug. 15, 2011, 07:10 PM
What should I do??? I'm SOOOOO upset! Is this a complete no-go horse?? I've ridden lots of horses over the years (I'm 40+) and have been riding my entire life, so I'm not a beginner, but I don't want to get hurt any more!!!

Sorry to be blunt, but if you've ridden your entire life and brought on other youngsters (even just two) your first assumption in this instance should have been, "this horse is in pain". Instead of assuming it is purely behavioral you should have immediately reviewed everything you have done differently from your trainer and friend. I agree, it's probably the saddle, but there are a few other possibilities as well. But I also agree with Velvet - you post suggests you might not be suited to bringing on this particular 3 year old, and there's no shame in that at all.

Long Spot
Aug. 15, 2011, 07:15 PM
With all due respect, I honestly really have a hard time taking any of your post seriously.

Me too. I think maybe someone is making a funny.

If not, OP, you missed a whole bunch of signs in which your horse tried to tell you something was not right. He/she told you in every way he/she could. You didn't listen. Horse is not the LOSER.

Equibrit
Aug. 15, 2011, 07:19 PM
Why would you think that a strange saddle would fit in any way and be comfortable ? If I was that horse i would have stepped on you.

MyssMyst
Aug. 15, 2011, 07:40 PM
Sounds like a classic case of Problem Exists Between Saddle and Helmet to me.

wcporter
Aug. 15, 2011, 08:05 PM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

birdsong
Aug. 15, 2011, 08:28 PM
Another vote for ditching your current saddle. Also, another vote for getting on a program with a trainer. Even if you are doing all of the riding, taking 2-3 lessons a week can really speed up the process. :)


This. The first very obvious clue would have been his "not wanting to move forward".

2tempe
Aug. 15, 2011, 09:35 PM
IMO, if you are 40 something and don't want to get hurt, then perhaps this was not the right horse for you to begin with. 3 yr olds are babies, and no matter how wonderful their temperments, they still have TONS to learn and the response to something will not always be the correct one.

Sorry to say, you may well be better off with an older, more seasoned horse. This is not the most fun way to learn. I had a horse some years ago that pulled some things - very different situation, but the net was that he scared me and a few other people. So he went back to seller to be resold. Cost me some $$ but was worth it in the end.

Zu Zu
Aug. 15, 2011, 09:43 PM
Have trainer work with BOTH of you TOGETHER to prevent accidents and
ensure a smooth transition ``` :yes:

Glad you were not injured ~ :yes:

Big_Grey_hunter
Aug. 15, 2011, 09:51 PM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

I can't stop laughing imagining someone doing this. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

ise@ssl
Aug. 15, 2011, 10:41 PM
I'm trying to figure out why you posted that you rode the horse at your Trainer's and didn't take your own saddle to try on the horse. I also feel there may have been an issue with the saddle fit. We normally don't just "get on" new horses when they are at a new barn. We take a few steps back in the training , lunge them and free lunge them and definitely have another person there the first time up. If you've ridden for 40+ years - I'm a little surprised you are expecting so much from a green broke 3 yo that's at a new farm with a new rider. Just my two cents.

sketcher
Aug. 15, 2011, 10:59 PM
With all due respect, I honestly really have a hard time taking any of your post seriously. Your calling your horse a 'LOSER' really irked me the most. That said, I'll add my $0.02 in the event you're not simply a troll.

Troll? Did someone finally say it?!

cadance
Aug. 15, 2011, 11:01 PM
you seriously wanted to send your horse back to the seller after ONE (relatively minor) fiasco? if that's all it takes to get you to throw your hands up and quit, then idk what you're doing riding horses...let alone starting a 3 year old.
"I went to get on him and he was very funny in not wanting to walk forward, would take a few steps and back up." ummm RED FLAG HELLOOOO.

is this thread a joke?

sdlbredfan
Aug. 15, 2011, 11:05 PM
I would bet quite a large sum of money that your saddle doesn't fit- and was causing the horse some pain.

This. Also, if you mounted from the ground, that probably caused some uncomfortable torque that worsened the pain.

birdsong
Aug. 15, 2011, 11:17 PM
I can't stop laughing imagining someone doing this. :lol::lol::lol::lol:


I yell BOO at my little crazy one all the time! :lol:

naturalequus
Aug. 16, 2011, 12:12 AM
Troll? Did someone finally say it?!

The OP's initial, and now lack of, responses is only confirming this point I think :winkgrin:

Equus
Aug. 16, 2011, 01:24 AM
He's 3 an he's lightly started. This stuff can happen. Even if the saddle does fit. I totally don't blame you for being scared to get back on. It's a very scary experience to fall off a rearing horse. What I would suggest, if you believe in this horse, is sending him away for at least 3 months with a reputable young horse trainer/rider and simply get some more miles on the horse before you get back on. I think all will be fine in the end but there really is no need putting yourself in danger if there are professionals out there who deal with youngsters for a living. Sounds like this horse is not 100% confirmed yet to forward driving leg aids. Don't beat yourself up over this, some 3 year olds just are more tricky than others. There are many professionals out there who don't touch a horse before it has had several months with the breaker.

thatsnotme
Aug. 16, 2011, 01:41 AM
I am definately thinking there is something nqr about the opening post, but...No true horseman would write off ANY 1 time experience. The horse let you know in the only language he has that something wasn't right, and you ignored it.
I am currently riding/training my own 3 yo (not my first by a long shot, and not my last) and am also 40+. My filly, with at least 120 rides (by me, same tack, etc) has never offered to rear. She is more of a back leg enthusiast by nature. Yet, yesterday, something scared the *%&$ out of her and up we went with no warning. Thank God for my helmet for without it I would have a broken nose. As it is, I have mane/carpet burn all the way up my face and a giant bruise where the bill of the helmet was hit by her neck. After a few minutes re-establishing that I am always the alpha and any major reaction should be cleared with said alpha, we went on to have a very nice ride. Today I'm laughing about it-not wondering where she should go.
I'm sorry you spent the day in the ER, I'm glad you're not hurt, but this is not the horses fault.

merrygoround
Aug. 16, 2011, 09:39 AM
The OP's initial, and now lack of, responses is only confirming this point I think :winkgrin:

Either that, or, having received, an enormous amount of non-sympathy, she is now wildly considering various new nom de COTH names. :lol: :lol: :lol:

norton
Aug. 16, 2011, 12:02 PM
Young horses do sometimes do things because of a problem like a saddle. Once they figure out that they can get you off though, they're likely to try it again with less reason. My personal experience with young horses is that they try everything once and will come back to behaviors that work, even if it's years later. Have you thought about getting an older, dead broke horse? I know you have dreams wrapped up in your new horse, but it's not worth getting hurt over.

Oberon13
Aug. 16, 2011, 02:24 PM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

:lol::lol::lol:

Velvet
Aug. 16, 2011, 02:26 PM
Either that, or, having received, an enormous amount of non-sympathy, she is now wildly considering various new nom de COTH names. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nah, why change it? Especially when it fits now. She'll be famous forever because of this topic! :yes: :lol:

Swing
Aug. 17, 2011, 11:04 AM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

Sorry but this is the funniest thing ive read all week:lol: cant stop laffing!

mbm
Aug. 17, 2011, 12:32 PM
to the OP: 3 yos are not for the faint of heart - even good, even tempered ones. they need a confident rider who has tons of experience bringing babies along. i suggest maybe trading this guy in for a older more experienced horse that you will feel safer on. it isnt fair to the horse to be ridden by someone that doesn't have the experience to make its training a positive thing. the horse will end up suffering.

so at 40+ and afraid i would get a steady eddy that would will have a blast on :) there is no shame in that. heck. my newest baby is a Connemara pony.... they are just so much closer to the ground lol! ;)


to the other posters on this thread: the OP sounds very similar to what you might read on a myriad of other horse boards.

Effie1221
Aug. 17, 2011, 01:47 PM
I agree with the posters about saddle fit and it just being a young horse. Double check with the trainer about saddle fit and lunge the horse with the saddle on before you ride.

Young horses do crazy things and need a confident and experienced rider during the first few years of training, not just the first month or two. Trading it for an older, better trained horse might be the best option if you don't 'do' rears.

I don't do 'spinners' if it makes you feel better. I can handle a buck or half-rear every now and again, but a horse that spooks and spins throws me off every time.

Petstorejunkie
Aug. 17, 2011, 01:57 PM
My sugar and spice button is broken today, prepare thyself. This horse told you several times, in several ways that there was a tack problem.
1 girthy while tacking
2 funny for mounting
3 reluctance to go forward.
You didn't listen so the horse resorted to louder communications
4 rear

Sorry, I don't see a horse problem at all, I see a people problem.

SillyHorse
Aug. 17, 2011, 02:02 PM
My sugar and spice button is broken today, prepare thyself. This horse told you several times, in several ways that there was a tack problem.
1 girthy while tacking
2 funny for mounting
3 reluctance to go forward.
You didn't listen so the horse resorted to louder communications
4 rear

Sorry, I don't see a horse problem at all, I see a people problem.
You forgot #5 - Horse was humming old Beatles tune "I'm a Loser."

partlycloudy
Aug. 17, 2011, 02:22 PM
I don't think anyone mentioned that the saddle could have been too far forward. The walking off funny is a sure sign of this.
I've had many three yr olds that were very particular about their saddles, where they were placed, how tight the girth is, even what saddle pads I use. A common mistake is not to reset the saddle after lunging if you are using sidereins, they can pull the saddle slightly forward.
and then sometimes @hit just happens.

wcporter
Aug. 17, 2011, 02:53 PM
Sorry but this is the funniest thing ive read all week:lol: cant stop laffing!

:winkgrin:

Equibrit
Aug. 17, 2011, 04:23 PM
Ol' Bunnion

I'm going to sell Ol' Bunnion,
That horse doesn't know a thing.
So I'll take him to the auction,
And they can run him through the ring.

Mama said, "My goodness Daddy;
Do you think you really should?"
She kind of liked Ol' Bunnion;
She really didn't think I could

But I took him to the auction.
I'll sell that worthless, stupid horse.
I can rid the ranch of him
Without a smidgen of remorse.

Mama kind of liked Ol' Bunnion;
She cried when I led him away.
She sat way up in the bleachers;
This was not her happy day.

But when they ran him through the ring,
The auctioneer begins to shout
'Bout what a grand horse Bunnion is
And things I didn't know about.

He said, "That horse is syncopated
And see the rhythm in his stride,
And the muscles congregating
Beneath his smooth and silky hide?"

Ol' Bunnion's stepping high and fancy
As he cavorts around the place,
And the auctioneer, he mentions
The kindly look on Bunnion's face.

"And there's compassion in his eyes
And love and kindness in his glance.
If music was a' playing
That horse'd probably try to dance."

`Took a second look at Bunnion
And he is moving pretty nice.
And the people at the auction
Just start a' bidding up the price.

And that doggone auctioneer
Gets folks a' boosting up the bid,
And I'm a' having second thoughts
About this hasty thing I did.

But the folks just keep on bidding
On that there horse that once was mine.
Maybe I missed out on something;
The auctioneer thinks he's just fine.

He says, "That horse can jump so high
He leaves his tracks there on the ground
And steps into some brand new ones
When gravitation pulls him down."

Like he said that doggone Bunnion
Is just a stepping up and back,
And every time he lifts a foot—
Sure 'nough, he's made a brand new track.

I realized the auctioneer
Had pointed out a thing or two
'Bout Ol' Bunnion's fancy capers
I didn't know that he could do.

"That horse can tell how old you are
Without makin' one mistake.
Start whenever you are ready
And count how many steps he takes.

I just sat there in amazement
At all the things Ol' Bunnion knew,
And when I finished counting,
Sure enough 'twas sixty-two.

And Ol' Bunnion just keeps stepping
Still counting for the older guys,
and I just sat there astonished
Overwhelmed and real surprised.

I just stared in utter silence,
That horse was something to behold;
Then suddenly the auctioneer
Slapped down his hand and hollered, "Sold."

Now I'm just a little flustered;
That guy had sold my brilliant horse.
Then went right on with the auction
While I'm a' feeling some remorse.

'Told Mama someone bought him,
And I was sorry as can be.
Then Mama cleared her throat
And said, "Why Honey—it was me."

by Don Kennington.

moonriverfarm
Aug. 17, 2011, 04:32 PM
Love the poem.
Young horses and green riders do not mix. And just because you've "ridden all your life" you are not automatically qualified to start a young horse. That is evident in the fact that you immediately blame the horse and not your lack of perception for his misbehavior. Not going forward and rearing are symptoms, not problems. Give this horse to someone else with more experience before you hurt yourself.

Maude
Aug. 17, 2011, 04:56 PM
Assuming that the OP is legitimate and not a troll: I would think that the horse should stay with the trainer for more training and the OP should be in a lesson program with the trainer until the OP and horse can get to know each other. The trainer or qualified saddle fitter should be able to tell if the OPs saddle fits the horse. If the saddle was girthed up too tight and too quickly then the horse would exhibit the exact behavior described in the original post. Irregardless, someone experienced in young horses should bring this horse along. I sent my 3 year old homebred to an experienced young horse starter last year because I wanted someone with lots of experience to get her going under saddle. Although I have ridden and trained to the FEI level "I know what I don't know" and was smart enough to swallow my pride and have my filly started by someone else. I had too much time, emotion and money (which is the least important) into her. She is now 4 and really a really nice (though green) ride.

inca
Aug. 17, 2011, 05:13 PM
We normally don't just "get on" new horses when they are at a new barn. We take a few steps back in the training , lunge them and free lunge them and definitely have another person there the first time up. If you've ridden for 40+ years - I'm a little surprised you are expecting so much from a green broke 3 yo that's at a new farm with a new rider. Just my two cents.

This was my first thought - holy cow, you just tacked up a green broke 3-yr-old that you barely know and hopped on. Heck, I STILL longe my 4-yr-old before getting on. She is fairly green and I would much rather make sure she is settled down and ready to work BEFORE I get on. If she is being a good girl, then I make the longe session very short (quick walk/trot/canter in each direction.) If she is doing her best rodeo bronc impression, I longe until her eye is soft and she is quiet. There is no point in setting ourselves up for a bad experience for both of us.

Also agree with Petstorejunkie that you ignored everything your horse was trying to tell you. It may or may not be saddle fit. But, you should have taken those warning signs and at the very least decided to longe first.

I would definitely check saddle fit but it may also just be a young horse seeing if this new rider is serious about making him work or not. I have a 6-yr-old that is SUPER ammie friendly and has been quiet natured ever since she was a baby. However, she pulled every trick in the book for about 5 minutes the first time I rode her after bringing her home from being started under saddle (and I longed first.) After she realized I was not going to react and it was not going to get her out of work, she was fine and she has never done anything bad under saddle since. Even the best-tempered young horses will test their boundaries.

Some riders, no matter how experienced, are just not cut out for green broke 3-yr-olds.

TheHorseProblem
Aug. 17, 2011, 06:50 PM
You forgot #5 - Horse was humming old Beatles tune "I'm a Loser."

Does anyone make giant L browbands?

bort84
Aug. 17, 2011, 07:58 PM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

You know what's embarrassing, I actually sort of did this one time... We had a horse in training that absolutely would get gorgeous (read: scared) whenever the barn owner would start cleaning the rafters with a feather duster.

So one day, my young self and his older-should-have-known-better-owner (I should have known better too) thought it would be funny to play "halter" with him (a silly spook of a horse as it was) and the feather duster...

He took one look, got loose and led us on a merry chase around the farm, haha. We had to sheepishly explain to my grandmother (the trainer) how exactly the whole thing had happened = )

We kept him despite the fact that he certainly lacked a sense of humor, haha. He sure looked pretty snorting and prancing away from us that day though = )

bort84
Aug. 17, 2011, 08:06 PM
Love the poem.
Young horses and green riders do not mix. And just because you've "ridden all your life" you are not automatically qualified to start a young horse. That is evident in the fact that you immediately blame the horse and not your lack of perception for his misbehavior. Not going forward and rearing are symptoms, not problems.

Very true.

I grew up as a trainer's kid, so for a long time I just always assumed people used trainers when they got horses. I was actually shocked as I got older that there were some people brave/stupid? enough to manage alone, haha.

Everyone needs regular lessons with someone more experienced than them. The frequency depends on your level of experience and your horse's. In this case, the horse very likely should be in full-time training with you taking regular lessons on him (and maybe some other horses as well).

People say they can't afford training. In that case, you can't afford a horse that needs it.

Also, as to the riding 40+ years thing, there were people that I knew growing up that had been riding for that long - I was riding better than them after only a handful of years riding (some even sooner...) You can ride for that long and still be fairly novice when it comes to actually training a horse. Young horses are a totally different game and your first one will be a STEEP learning curve no matter how many years you've been in the saddle. If you aren't in tip top riding shape and don't have exceptional timing, the typical young horse can be pretty impossible to train on your own.

Petstorejunkie
Aug. 17, 2011, 09:29 PM
it's not the number of years to your knowledge, but the amount of knowledge in your years.

hundredacres
Aug. 17, 2011, 09:45 PM
Some posts need videos. Since a theme song has been suggested, I hope the OP provides us with some visual soon...then we may be able to determine the posters age (40's, really???), and the gender of the horse. The other stuff, we already know :).

netg
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:05 PM
I don't do 'spinners' if it makes you feel better. I can handle a buck or half-rear every now and again, but a horse that spooks and spins throws me off every time.

Sorry it's off the OP, but are you long-waisted?


I'm super short waisted, and spinning is easy for me, but bucking and rearing mess me up. I've long thought it was because of my build. :)

cuatx55
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:09 PM
Skip to later on in the thread when she gets a 3 yo QH mare. UDBB folks are getting mighty tired of the drama from the OP.

http://www.ultimatedressage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=213506

dkcbr
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:20 PM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

:lol: Love it!!

:o And now, back to your regular programming...:o

Effie1221
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:23 PM
Get outtttt!!!!

I am so long waisted I have custom tailored slacks! All my riding pants are too 'short' so I wear long tops to cover!

There might be a relationship. Give me a buck or rear any day, a slight spin will wiz me right off! I never thought it was due to being long waisted.

Big_Grey_hunter
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:27 PM
Sorry it's off the OP, but are you long-waisted?


I'm super short waisted, and spinning is easy for me, but bucking and rearing mess me up. I've long thought it was because of my build. :)


Get outtttt!!!!

I am so long waisted I have custom tailored slacks! All my riding pants are too 'short' so I wear long tops to cover!

There might be a relationship. Give me a buck or rear any day, a slight spin will wiz me right off! I never thought it was due to being long waisted.


I'm short waisted ('low rise' breeches are higher than my belly button) and I can sit a spin, shoulder drop, or dirty stop just fine. I'm quite good at it actually. But with bucks and rears I really have to fight to stay centered. Fortunately I've never had a rearer and my gelding's bucks aren't big when he decides to be 'fresh'

sdlbredfan
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:32 PM
it's not the number of years to your knowledge, but the amount of knowledge in your years.

This and the previous one from petstorejunkie are awesome!

Effie1221
Aug. 17, 2011, 10:51 PM
I just followed that link to UDressage and the YouTube video was taken down.

x
Aug. 18, 2011, 08:10 AM
If he's fine in a dressage saddle, and fine in a western saddle I'd look to a saddle problem. It may be as simple as a jumping saddle sets you more forward, and the dressage and western saddle sit you more back, and he's not used to the more forward. Or, it really may be that the saddle doesn't fit. Alot of jumping saddles sit too close to the withers on a high-withered horse; the front of the pommel seems like it is clearing, but an inch or two back from it and it is pressing on the withers. Is the gullet clear all the way down? This is a problem I've run into often, especially with close contact saddles.

WBLover
Aug. 18, 2011, 10:51 AM
OP, I hear you!
The other day I walked over to my horse on the cross-ties and as a joke I got in his face and yelled boogie boogie BOO!

Well! He freaked out and ran backwards and broke his halter.

What a dumb-ass! I guess he has no sense of humor, which is too bad b/c otherwise he's perfect. But I hate him now and I pretty sure I need to sell him.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :winkgrin:

netg
Aug. 18, 2011, 11:21 AM
I'm short waisted ('low rise' breeches are higher than my belly button) and I can sit a spin, shoulder drop, or dirty stop just fine. I'm quite good at it actually. But with bucks and rears I really have to fight to stay centered. Fortunately I've never had a rearer and my gelding's bucks aren't big when he decides to be 'fresh'

Same here as far as short waistedness. I figure, if my center of gravity is just about ON the saddle, it means movement which tends to move center of gravity far just doesn't bother me as much.

At the same time - our torsos can't absorb the rear and buck movement like Effie's and other long-waisted folks most often can. My first horse was a HUGE bucker, but in my 5 years with her only managed to buck me off twice (and once was bareback.) However, she ended up with my clinging to her neck refusing to fall many times! Thanks to her I might be able to stay on horses well, but it gets ugly when it's bucking/rearing.

Skyedragon
Aug. 18, 2011, 12:04 PM
This sounds like a case of a poorly fitting saddle. Fix your saddle fit problem with a professional saddle fitter and I bet your rearing problem goes away.

BarbB
Aug. 18, 2011, 04:30 PM
I didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been said. (I was leaning toward troll also and lost interest.) You have labelled the horse a LOSER, which means at the least that you do not like him/her. You are afraid of him/her and you obviously do not have the skills to bring on a young sensitive horse. Do everyone a favor and if the seller will take the horse back send it back. Better for you, better for the horse, better for the seller.
Find a horse with more miles that you actually like and are willing to put up with getting to know and buy it.
Good luck. Glad no one got hurt.

hundredacres
Aug. 18, 2011, 07:32 PM
I feel bad now...I truly believed the OP was pranking us (I laughed when I read it). I didn't realize this was real.

hundredacres
Aug. 21, 2011, 08:44 AM
(reported)

cuatx55
Aug. 21, 2011, 02:04 PM
This is Mendelsohn from UDBB....not a prank.

mbm
Aug. 21, 2011, 02:09 PM
cuatx55 - why would you link this thread to another BB and then tell everyone who the poster is?

totally uncool.

CelticRiverDance
Aug. 21, 2011, 02:10 PM
For me a situation like this would cause me to send the horse back. If the trainer is willing to take him back, I would go that route. I'm 59 and I know I'd never trust the horse again. I'd also be afraid that the horse might always think this is acceptable behavior for something that upsets or hurts him.

It does sound like it's the saddle fit, but what happens when you get a saddle that fits properly and the young horses back changes again (which is going to happen until he's at least 6). Is he going to go up in the air every time the saddle goes out of fit?

I don't mean to sound all gloom and doom but I am just stating what I would do because of the experiences I've had and my personality.

Big_Grey_hunter
Aug. 21, 2011, 02:13 PM
For me a situation like this would cause me to send the horse back. If the trainer is willing to take him back, I would go that route. I'm 59 and I know I'd never trust the horse again. I'd also be afraid that the horse might always think this is acceptable behavior for something that upsets or hurts him.

It does sound like it's the saddle fit, but what happens when you get a saddle that fits properly and the young horses back changes again (which is going to happen until he's at least 6). Is he going to go up in the air every time the saddle goes out of fit?

I don't mean to sound all gloom and doom but I am just stating what I would do because of the experiences I've had and my personality.

I think the big thing the horse *didn't* just go up in the air. He gave plenty of warning. He balked, he didn't want to go forward, he backed up, and THEN when the rider still didn't listen, he went up. He's a three year old who probably has never worn a properly fitting saddle and was confused

vicarious
Aug. 21, 2011, 02:24 PM
Having read the excerpts from UDBB by and to the OP here, I'm afraid that we are wasting our time.

No company will insure you against your own stupidity. Or if they do, it will c$$$$st you' :lol:

Sad but true.

goeslikestink
Aug. 21, 2011, 07:23 PM
With all due respect, I honestly really have a hard time taking any of your post seriously. Your calling your horse a 'LOSER' really irked me the most. That said, I'll add my $0.02 in the event you're not simply a troll. Hopefully I'm not wasting my time, but *shrug* I guess right now I have lots of it anyway :winkgrin:

Rearing, bucking - these are behaviours horses make in response to something. While there may be no prior history of these behaviours, the right stimuli/factors to invoke such a response might not have been present in the past, where they are now. Your horse is honestly responding to something, so it's your job to figure out and address the root issue rather than labeling him a loser in all-caps. I highly suggest seeking the help and knowledge of a professional in this case.

If he seemed girthy when you first tacked him up, that was your first red flag. Red flag #2 was his not wanting to go forward. There were definitely other signs he gave you but when you ignored them, he had no choice but to escalate his communication to you - in this case, to rear.

I second having your saddle fit checked for fit by a professional saddle fitter (even two). If your friend and new horse clicked and she is a good trainer who can successfully bring along young horses, allow her to work with him and progress him. When you work with him yourself, do so under the guidance of an instructor with experience working with young horses. If he is not appropriate for your level of knowledge (which is the direction I am leaning toward based on your response), I do recommend sending him back or selling him (perhaps through the trainer you purchased him from); you are then free to find a horse more suitable to your level of knowledge (and as already mentioned, there certainly is absolutely no shame in that).

"There are no problem horses, only problem riders" - it's always more about us than it is the horse.

Do what's best by your horse and yourself. Good luck :)

echo this

cuatx55
Aug. 21, 2011, 07:39 PM
cuatx55 - why would you link this thread to another BB and then tell everyone who the poster is?

totally uncool.

really? well, then I'll be "uncool". I don't care anymore. the UDBB has spend YEARS with this OP and totally been left frustrated.... I was triyng to spare this board some of the drama.

She lied about showing the wb, she lied about this new horse---its a mare not a gelding. I just don't get it.

merrygoround
Aug. 21, 2011, 07:48 PM
Having read the excerpts from UDBB by and to the OP here, I'm afraid that we are wasting our time.

No company will insure you against your own stupidity. Or if they do, it will c$$$$st you' :lol:

Sad but true.

Sounds like it has already cost her. Where is this latest LOSER? I'm hitching up!

Jill SQF
Aug. 22, 2011, 01:22 AM
I agree about the saddle. The other issue is that he/she/whomever ABSOLUTELY MUST go forward under saddle. Backing up like that is a pretty good sign that he/she is thinking about rearing!