Our Farm dispersal sale [Archive]

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 06:16 AM

Free posted
"Darn...and I am looking for a broodmare".

Please re-think your need/desire to breed. In this FLOODED market there certainly is a horse already for you (of any age, shape, sex, color, size, type, etc.) that will (most likely) fit your discipline if it envolves a TB.
*Darn* really isn't what comes to the minds of people in the thick (like Laurierace) when the leftovers of someone elses breeding program goes south at the expense of the horses. Single headed or in groups, it happens all the time. While reproducing can be gratifying & fun, think of the satisfaction you can have knowing you didn't find an excuse to add to the #s but used your skills to recycle one (or more) in dire need. Most often there's a financial advantage to the rehab/recycle game over breeding as well. Obviously broodmares, especially this late in the season, are the hardest to save but I take the VERY distasteful & hard to swallow belief that letting them be killed is better than using them to add more. In a perfect world I'd want them all humanely euthanized if no home could be found....I've done that myself (and it only took once). I'm sorry Our Farm sold stock w/out a reserve & didn't/couldn't take resposibility for the remaining.

fernie fox

Jun. 29, 2004, 06:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Laurierace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kenbiki:
Laurierace...are you sure,absolutely sure of this info????????I can't tell you how upset I am and I will sever all ties if this is true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am absolutely positive. I have been working with this rescue for 6 years now. We have a representative at New Holland every Monday.

My friend watched the whole thing unfold.

I made a few calls trying to find someone to take some of the mares, but no one wanted to carry a barren mare until next spring when she could be bred. They also would not donate the mares, we offered to take some of them, but they wanted the cash, not the tax receipt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why did'nt they put these mare down at home,it would have saved them from "an awful death".I hope this farm gets ..really reallly baad press for doing this.

They don't deserve to be in business.

When will these folks take responsability for their unwanted stock.

This sickens me.

I hope they fry in hell.

ASB Stars

Jun. 29, 2004, 06:58 AM

Several years ago, the company that I work for was negotiating a deal with Jack Gambone- the real money and original brain behind the Gambone business. Jack offered to send me a couple of broodmares, and then we would be partners on the foals.

My boss and I went up to the farm, and met with Ray and Jack- it would have been inappropriate, we thought, to not at least appear interested- and they were two very nice young mares. They had the printout there- I believe that Betsy handed it to me- on the breeding, etc.

I looked at Jack, and said, "I just can't do this. I do rescue work with my American Saddlebreds, and it would be hypocritical for me to be raising up Thoroughbred, when there are so many that need homes."

He looked dead at me and said, "A real bleeding heart, huh ?" and walked away.

Nice philosophy- and it starts at the top.

People need to be judged by their actions- not their words. I think that the actions here denote that these people are what caring people abhor. There was not reason to do this other than greed. HOw vile- how uneccesary-how unfortunately typical.

Julie (PS- we didn't do the deal with them, either)

KMZ

Jun. 29, 2004, 07:18 AM

Ok I know I'm gonna get flammed for this, but Lets look at this from the other side, recent widow, trying to keep the farm afloat. Do you really think the "brothers" are helping her? Why should she be stuck with over 80 head of less than adequate breeding stock? It takes alot of $$$ to feed them, break them etc. Yes it is sad that she couldn't afford to just do that but she also has three children to feed. And I'm pretty sure she has Medical expenses to pay for as well. Just because you've had a experience with a "brother" don't paint her with the same brush. Either this farm makes it or it may just become another Gambone development.

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 08:02 AM

KMZ...you said it, "less than adequate breeding stock". I looked at several of the broodmares & stallions on paper & saw nothing I'd have kept or much less bred. Therein lies the lesson to others.
I don't know the widow, so I'm really just asking, but did she have a hand in the farm's operation? And if so, don't you feel she holds responsibility to the way her stock is dispersed, especially if it only means a cut into her standard of living & not the means of her family's survival? I've been a homeless mother (doesn't get any more desperate than that) & definatly not big into walking in other peoples shoes, BUT I'm not any quicker in assuming she didn't have better options. My sincere sympathies if she didn't, as sometimes it all unravels like a person never could have imagined.
It would have been better (for the horses) had the farm set a minimal reserve (private post sale deals not to be dismissed) then euthanized the leftovers. That's a rock & a hard spot choice she may not have been able to deal with. Maybe there were partners that wouldn't allow it, I obviously don't know the details....asking questions and discussing possible alternatives. Not that it matters now, beyond lending thought into how those (reading about this tragedy) will consider their stock's well-being before, during, and after it's use.

KMZ

Jun. 29, 2004, 08:22 AM

Quite honestly no she didn't have a say in what got bred, her husband basically bred or turned out in the fields anything that had four legs. At one point in time there were over 300 head turned out not to mention the ones in the barns.

Ray always said if alittle was good alot was better and that was how he lived his life right or wrong. She wants quality not quantity.

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 08:38 AM

KMZ: Ah, understood. But still (not knowing financial details), a bunch of mares bringing less than kill prices aren't going to make or break you unless it's REALLY dire. Then I have to ask if the ability to sell off some land (possibly not needed since stock is reduced) & writting off the euthanized ones wouldn't have been a better financial, if not moral, resort. It sounds like you know the family so your letting us in on the *whys & why nots* might lower the disgust most reading about this might feel towards the owner.

ASB Stars

Jun. 29, 2004, 10:13 AM

Here, I completely disagree with you. She has no less responsibility to the "less than average" horses that she did to those that were "better". The fact the she understands quality, in my opinion, should convey that she is intelligent enough to understand something that is morally reprehensible.

There is PLENTY of ground up there for her to bury these horses, if she had euthanized them there- and didn't want to pay to have htem hauled away. Gambone owns a construction company, as well as the development and commercial end. There is simply no point in defending the indefensible.

Julie

FairWeather

Jun. 29, 2004, 10:34 AM

WHY wasnt this advertised better????

TOTALLY DISGUSTING!

kenbiki

Jun. 29, 2004, 11:03 AM

I don't know who you are KMZ,but it sounds like you have inside knowledge. In my experience Betsy was the brains and decision maker .It is also my understanding that she is not in dire financial straits,to say the least.But I could be wrong.

BaldEagle

Jun. 29, 2004, 11:31 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by breezymeadow:
Wow Bald Eagle - after your post on another thread apparently pro-slaughter - why are you interested? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even after writing some of the longests posts in this Forum, some people do not get the full picture.
I am not Pro-Slaughter.
I am against a law that would create a paradise for horses on earth taking away hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers money for that. Its absolutely unnaceptable. This is completely different then being Pro-slaughter!
Unwanted horses must be "disposed of" or private money must assure their survival.

My position is "not a single taxpayer's dollar for horse "retirement".
If the bill passes is just the first phase, then it would be the appropriation of the necessary financial resources.

What happened with this dispersal is an example. Horses that go below market value alive end up dead. That's how the market works.
Now I wish that there would be no need for that but unfortunately sometimes that's the only way.

They are entitled to do whatever they want to their horses. Nobody has the right to tell the former owners what they should do with their animals, be it horses or anything else. They tried to sell and nobody bought some of them.

What was sad was that that they didn't gave time for CANTER, Horses Rescues and the like to step in and help out.
I am absolutely sure that if they had made better publicity and asked CANTER for help a volunteer could have gone there and take photographs of all the horses, put everything on their website and after the sale if they had given say 30 days, a lot of them could have been saved. However that costs money and, again, nobody has the right to force them to spend money feeding them when they don't want to.

However some people knew about this and said nothing. I only found out after it was done and like me many others for sure.
I wouldn't go there anyway, so the loss was none, but who knows with other people? Just in this thread is someone saying that it is looking for a mare...

BaldEagle

Jun. 29, 2004, 11:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ASB Stars:
There is PLENTY of ground up there for her to bury these horses, if she had euthanized them there- and didn't want to pay to have htem hauled away. Julie <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody has the right to tell them what they should do.
People that wanted the things differently, should have their own check books prepared to foot the bills.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kenbiki:
It is also my understanding that she is not in dire financial straits,to say the least.But I could be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regardless of her finantial situation its her own money and nobody has the right to tell her how and where it should be spent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KMZ:
Ok I know I'm gonna get flammed for this, but Lets look at this from the other side, recent widow, trying to keep the farm afloat. Do you really think the "brothers" are helping her? Why should she be stuck with over 80 head of less than adequate breeding stock? It takes alot of $$$ to feed them, break them etc. Yes it is sad that she couldn't afford to just do that but she also has three children to feed. And I'm pretty sure she has Medical expenses to pay for as well. Just because you've had a experience with a "brother" don't paint her with the same brush. Either this farm makes it or it may just become another Gambone development. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think nobody with a rational/pragmatic/reasonable approach to this problem is going to flame you. You are absolutely right. She tried to sell and nobody wanted... That was it.

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 11:51 AM

Even if she was left a mess made by her late husband, it became her responsibility regardless of her role before. If she is a person of means, even mildly so, then shame on her. And why did they wait until now to unload, or has it been winding down awhile?
As far as her being the brains, these horses and their fate aren't saying much about anyone's ability. Way too common of a scenario http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 12:01 PM

BaldEagle....get off your ill-placed legal rights arguments, would you?..... No sh!t, really?? She has a right to breed and dispose of all the horses she wants under the LAW? Really? We had no idea http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif But HELLO, we're talking moral resposibilities here. I'm not wild about using my "checkbook" to clean up other people's messes, thank you. I'd just as soon they stop the stupidity in their breeding operations. Well duh.

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 12:51 PM

BaldEagle, you quoted "Just in this thread is someone saying that it is looking for a mare..." when referring to a possible home for one (had BBer known about the sale). Yes, & that person was looking for a mare to BREED. Do you not see the irony here?
Like others, I've been paying taxes for a long time and am disgusted at the amount of my $$ that goes out the window. So, do I think tax $$ should support defunct equine operations? Absolutely NOT. I have read through most of your posts and you seem to be confused in separating the rights of some *horsemen* and anothers' ability to voice disgust at how those horsemen abuse those rights.
While there are laws preventing you from dumping your dog on the street (& whose taxes pay for many of the city's shelters, by the way? As well as many spay/neuter programs..), I see no difference in making horse owners/breeders held reponsible for their animals. Not being able to gain a few bucks at the kill pens. Some people eat dogs & cats but in this society I don't think we should be able to sell Garfield and Odie by the pound. The fine line of what we call a horse under the law, not a domestic pet but livestock sways all.
We may not be able to stop such stupidity (breeding & such) but we can certainly protest it and hopefully educate a few on the way! E`proprio cosi!
A surplus of anything (humans, horses, or whatever) usually burdens ALL of us, one way or the other. Your tax dollars, if you're paying them, are supporting other peoples' mistakes as we speak. Feel free to go scream about it from any appropriate platform you choose.

Laurierace

Jun. 29, 2004, 01:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Even if she was left a mess made by her late husband, it _became_ her responsibility regardless of her role before. If she is a person of means, even mildly so, then shame on her. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought this was a good opportunity to have a little chat with my hubby about my horses. While it is true that they are completely mine meaning I pay all their bills and am the sole descision maker in regards to them, we are still a couple. I expect him to care for my horses the same way I would if I am no longer here.
Just like it never hurts to talk about organ donation or burial vs. cremation wishes, it is a good idea to reiterate your wishes with regards to your horses too. I basically said that I knew that this would never happen to my horses, but if it did somehow, I would find a way to come back from the otherside and kick some serious butt! I like to think that all my horses are very marketable and that with all the rescue work that I have done that my horses would have a secure future. In the absence of that though I would want them to be put down rather than slaughtered. A logical person in my opinion can in no way equate those two things and those who do are kidding themselves.

Equine Adhesive

Jun. 29, 2004, 01:30 PM

I think everyone here agrees that what was done was, in the very least, an injustice to the animals. The debate on whether this should be legal or not is a different matter and should not be weighed emotionally (i.e. under the influence of anger/sadness). As for the topic of the horses being sent to the auction, I think if it had been more publicized, most of them could have been saved. I think the reason it was not publicized was to save the image of the farm. But they should have known better-- obviously people found out and now they (Our Farm) looks the worse for it. It's a shame they did not think this through a little better first.

Laurierace

Jun. 29, 2004, 02:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Equine Adhesive:
I think everyone here agrees that what was done was, in the very least, an injustice to the animals. The debate on whether this should be legal or not is a different matter and should not be weighed emotionally (i.e. under the influence of anger/sadness). As for the topic of the horses being sent to the auction, I think if it had been more publicized, most of them could have been saved. I think the reason it was not publicized was to save the image of the farm. But they should have known better-- obviously people found out and now they (Our Farm) looks the worse for it. It's a shame they did not think this through a little better first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well as far as being a legal matter goes, at this time it isn't although we are working on that. It is a horrible injustice that all these horses were slaughtered of course, but what about all the other horses in the kill pen.
Its not like this is a once in a lifetime occurance because the guy died. It happens every week at New Holland and every day somewhere else. Better publication of the sale may have saved some of these, but we have a long way to go to solve the problem altogether.
Personally I think the place we need to start is in the breeding shed. I think the warmblood people were right on the money when they starting qualifying horses. That means that if you breed an inferior mare, the resulting foal is not registerable. Sure there will be some backyard breeders that don't care, but it will take a big chunk out of it.

petshaverights

Jun. 29, 2004, 02:18 PM

Ray Gambone loved his farm and his horses. Sadly he kept too many. The rain that fell shortly after the auction were his tears. He too like many of you would have been disgusted and appalled by the fate that his horses met at the cold hearted decision of his wife. Surely she could have given this animals to someone rather than send them to their death at the hands of the killers. I wish I had known about the sale as I too may have saved a few of them

ASB Stars

Jun. 29, 2004, 02:23 PM

Many years ago, I was told that only five-percent of the Thoroughbreds at the track pay their way- which, I am guessing, means that they don't stay there too long. I am thrilled that there are amazing groups like canter, and the TB retirement farms, in existence.

For me, this isn't about money, and it isn't about the rights of the individual that legally possesses these horses. It is about what is truly morally and ethically right and kind.

I live within an hour of the farm, and receive the local horse rags, and I was unaware of the impending sale of these horses. It is apparent from the website that they didn't get carried away with a pro-active marketing campaign. I believe the results speak for themselves.

I understand that you have a right to express your opinion, Bald Eagle, and even to play devil's advocate, because you can. I am sorry that you waste so much obviously intelligent thought in such an obviously dispassionate way.

Julie

kenbiki

Jun. 29, 2004, 02:53 PM

I thought it was mentioned earlier in the post that the offer to rescue them was made and turned down because they wanted the cash instead of the tax right off.Did I understand this correctly??

SeaOat

Jun. 29, 2004, 03:33 PM

Yikes, I thought she meant the offer was made at New Holland....Laurie, who turned the donation offer down??

Laurierace

Jun. 29, 2004, 03:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Yikes, I thought she meant the offer was made at New Holland....Laurie, who turned the donation offer down?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The offer was made at New Holland. We offered to take a couple of the mares if they would donate them. We were turned down, but I really don't know by whom.

petshaverights

Jun. 29, 2004, 04:00 PM

Are all of the horses gone ? Could more be possibly taken to the sale next Monday ? Would anyone who is willing to take a horse and give it a good home please call the farm and make the offer !!Maybe it is not too late for a few of these helpless animals. Sadly very few knew about the sale before it happened. The farm's number is 610-584-9198

Alagirl

Jun. 29, 2004, 07:49 PM

Trying hard to stay out of mudslinging contests, I just can't anymore!

What is ther to say...horses went to the meat man that could have been spared - or not, had the powers in charge seen it fir to bother informing the public about the sale...they didn't.

Since no-one knows for sure why they have - lets face it - screwed up so badly, no one knows, I am sure the horses woul have brought in more money if they had done theur homework...

But most of this thread is assumption, that the widow is well off, and so forth...she might not have had a choice. Ever thought of that?!
If hubby had the tendency to run more horses than he could afford, the farm could be way deep into the red ink, no choices on keeping the leftovers from the sale...

And if the bloody dogooders wouldn't be so abandoned, or think their actions through, those poor mares would not have to be shipped to Canada or Mexico right now!!!!!!

And if somebody sees the neccessety of slaughter, it does not make him/her a bad person...one just cannot bury 10-20 horses on the back fourty!

So lay off of it!
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

if you are not willing to put your money where your mouth it...well....

Laurierace

Jun. 29, 2004, 07:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>And if the bloody dogooders wouldn't be so abandoned, or think their actions through, those poor mares would not have to be shipped to Canada or Mexico right now!!!!!!

And if somebody sees the neccessety of slaughter, it does not make him/her a bad person...one just cannot bury 10-20 horses on the back fourty!

So lay off of it!
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

if you are not willing to put your money where your mouth it...well.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am a huge part of the solution thank you very much. For curiousities sake what exactly is your part of the solution? And furthermore, when you have 450 acres and a construction company with backhoes and such, why can't you bury 20 horses there? Oh yeah I remember, because you want $300 for their dead bodies, never mind.

RHdobes

Jun. 29, 2004, 08:03 PM

#79, "It's Always You", 1987 dark bay or brown stallion, is or WAS a 'half-brother' to MY horse, Arbor Gate (Apalachee x Look To Me).

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Alagirl

Jun. 29, 2004, 08:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Laurierace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>And if the bloody dogooders wouldn't be so abandoned, or think their actions through, those poor mares would not have to be shipped to Canada or Mexico right now!!!!!!

And if somebody sees the neccessety of slaughter, it does not make him/her a bad person...one just cannot bury 10-20 horses on the back fourty!

So lay off of it!
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

if you are not willing to put your money where your mouth it...well.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am a huge part of the solution thank you very much. For curiousities sake what exactly is your part of the solution? And furthermore, when you have 450 acres and a construction company with backhoes and such, why can't you bury 20 horses there? Oh yeah I remember, because you want $300 for their dead bodies, never mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, don't get your knickers in a twist, I wasn't talking about you in person (or otherwise)
I just got kicked off after having written a lengthy reply....oh well.

Just because you *have* 450 acres and a business does not neccessarily mean that you actually *have* the land and tha money, aside from the fact that there might be other considerations than money in prohibiting the thought of buriing 20 horses on your property!

And you are right, how anybody would ever think that they could sell something w/o advertising... that's beyond me. Makes you wnder if they even wanted to get them sold...

But they like would have saved a lot by just junking them on the truck and send them off to Canada....just my two cents worth...

In anycase, it's jsuut not the right place to jump down somebody's throat because they do have a different opinion...SeaOak was not very pleasant to follow...

ASB Stars

Jun. 30, 2004, 04:44 AM

I was present on more than one occasion when Jack Gambone was talking to his trainer at the track- via Nextel- about how a horse had run in a particular race. AS in a race that was taking place while we were meeting....he was totally hands on with his involvement- financially as well.

When he was indicted- for alleged tax evasion- to the tune of fifteen million- everyone saw it all over the papers- he appealed- and nothing seems to be coming out- I am not sure what his status is.

However- that this was so poorly handled, without any real regard for the future of these horses, cannot be disputed.

Julie

SeaOat

Jun. 30, 2004, 05:33 AM

Alagirl: What are you babbling about? You certianly have the attitude of someone who knows this sport but obviously not the insight.
You said SeaoaK (I assume you meant SeaoaT) was hard to follow...well, I already did raise the benifit-of-doubt questions you *repeated* in your post on behalf of the subject widow (nice to have you jump in the middle of the conversation to set things right). And people who apparently know her fairly up-close told a different story, one very common in this industry. Pretty much everybody knows EVERYBODY in racing, FYI, so not hard to get a somewhat accurate picture eventually.
I'm guessing you are show/sport, or dressage (?) where a few horses going down the pike is big-big news (that you get to view from the pages of a magazine)? Well in racing we see HUNDREDS upon THOUSANDS parading that path ALL THE TIME. Up close. So pardon us if your little "mud-sling" (as you say) union doesn't hurt too much, nor offend. You can't help what you don't know.
"Knickers in a twist"? Ah, now isn't that cute, sounding all English & such.....
Anyway, "SeaOaK" is also very much in the thick of this industry and just a wee bit calloused over much of what is everyday wrong within our big boy industry (yes I do LOVE the great majority, a requirement for most of us lest we stop being "bloody dogooders"/do-gooders), though never enough to get used to the likes of New Holland, or the horseS I hold (yes I do hold/stroke them, at risk, up until their head whacks the ground) to put down, or the mid-to-no level fillies who break down (or just can't run from lack of talent) who get sent to the breeding shed (when they SHOULD be put down). Or, now here's a goodie, the adopted fillies/mares that people actually want to breed. Yeash.......
Now go back to doing your half-halts or something equally meaningful.

NMS

Jun. 30, 2004, 06:21 AM

I have spent the better part of the last four years showing the racing industry around here that there are alternatives to auctions. Maybe these folks did not know what the alternatives were in their area. It is entirely possible. The point is that we will probably never know if they had other options. Most likely the carrier that took them to New Holland was not empowered to make donation decisions.

So my point here is that when there are dispersal sales or horses that may be at risk of going to auctions the one thing we CAN DO is contact a local rescue group in the area and let them know. If this sale was in my area I would have tried to contact them and AT LEAST tried to educate them on the alternatives for those that do not sell.

That much we should at least empower ourselves to do. In fact, it's the last we can do. If you need a list of rescues in your area just PM me. There are plenty of sites on the web that also have listings.

Nancy

Laurierace

Jun. 30, 2004, 11:15 AM

Well I have semi good news with the possibility of more good news to follow. It turns out the horses at New Holland Monday were bought at the sale, not leftovers that didn't sell. They were reportedly being used to start up a breeding operation. Our Farm itself had no knowledge that they were being taken to New Holland and I am told they would have bought them back if they had known. That obviously makes me very relieved to hear.
They have gone so far as to inquire if we can track the mares via the killer buyer to see if they can purchase them back. I am working on that part now. Hopefully it is not too late.
The bottom line is all my information was accurate with the major exception of the farm itself being behind the mares being at New Holland. But I had good reason to believe that because the person who took the mares there called US the morning of and told us that they were the leftovers. With all the crap I see going on, I had no reason to doubt it.

jilltx

Jun. 30, 2004, 11:59 AM

Jingling for the ponies. I hope it all works out with a happier ending. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Robby Johnson

Jun. 30, 2004, 02:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Now go back to doing your half-halts or something equally meaningful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now now, let's not add insult to injury. It's hard to accept you as a sympathetic, compassionate rescue volunteer when you're spewing vitriol like a woman with the palsy.

I personally think what happened is horrible when the horses could've gone on to other homes/existences that would've been more humane. I'm more upset that someone would turn down offers of such homes in lieu of cash.

I think we all would love to have 450 acres and unlimited funds so that horses in this state would never have to go to slaughter.

It also pains me to think of what would happen to my horses if I died and couldn't care for them. Who would feed them their iced oatmeal cookies? Who would know that you cannot curry Rhodey too hard or he will bite you? Because of this feeling of despair I did, in fact, include my horses in my will. Is it flaky? I don't know. But it makes me feel better.

Robby

fernie fox

Jun. 30, 2004, 03:10 PM

I think Sea oat is Doing very well with her "vitriolic",comments. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If only I could type half as quickly as my brain,I would be saying a lot more.

Anyway,even though I've never met you "I love you Robby". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Everyone should make arrangemants for their beloved animals,it just makes sense to me.

I wonder how many of our beloveds "Fred" can take. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am glad this has been "busted" on here,the farm owners can back peddle all they like,I still think they treated these animals badly.

And if no-one had said anything,we would never have known,and they would have got away with it.

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

empaire

Jun. 30, 2004, 03:11 PM

I have been a boarder at Our Farm for over 25 years .I am able to " work off" part of my board and one of my jobs is keeping a list of where all our horses are on the farm. I went up today with a heavy heart after reading last nights conversations on this site. I couldn't believe it to be true.And it isn't ! Every one of the horses that did not get taken during the OF auction are in stalls at the farm !! I was never happier to see them. If there were horses at the sale at New Holland they had been purchased by a liar who told Betsy that he was using them for trail riding. Shame on him and may he get what he deserves. I honestly feel that those horses would never have been sold to a low life killer.

fernie fox

Jun. 30, 2004, 03:14 PM

Please give us a list of horses,that are available

If you post their names on here .

I am sure you will get some good homes via this board.

Alagirl

Jun. 30, 2004, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:
I think Sea oat is Doing very well with her "vitriolic",comments. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If only I could type half as quickly as my brain,I would be saying a lot more.

Anyway,even though I've never met you "I love you Robby". http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Everyone should make arrangemants for their beloved animals,it just makes sense to me.

I wonder how many of our beloveds "Fred" can take. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am glad this has been "busted" on here,the farm owners can back peddle all they like,I still think they treated these animals badly.

And if no-one had said anything,we would never have known,and they would have got away with it.

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said, as usual...I have five Pounds left, maybe one of these days we meet in Gatwick or Heathrow and blow it on a couple bottles of water (won't go much further

SeaOat

Jun. 30, 2004, 05:13 PM

Glad to see this saga has a better ending than expected. I know few people backside who haven't been told lies in order to get a free/cheap horse, then have it go to the killers. A big applause to Laurie and others who followed it through.

Robby J.: I'm not a rescue volunteer, as such, but do note horses (word of mouth) on the backside & find homes for them. Your seeing me as compassionate & sympathetic (or not) bears little on the results. I keep those emotions where they belong.
But I'm glad to see you to the rescue of someone on the recieving end of my spewing vitriolic rebuttal. Keep up the good work.
OH! Did you really say this??....>>>Nothing pisses me off more than showing up to braid a mane that some lazy person has chopped off to high heavens with a gadget to "make it look pulled," and then having to braid it. And nothing drives me more insane than a mane that's not properly thinned.<<<<
Yikes, no wonder you're upset with me. You've had a bad day....

Bea

Jun. 30, 2004, 06:57 PM

Robby, how many times do I have to tell you to be careful on the racing forum. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Now I think you've got SeaOat mad. And believe me, you don't want to make SeaOat mad. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I'll create a diversion while you make a run for the door. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

So, does anyone know when exactly Smarty Jones is leaving for his new home in Mexico?

Robby Johnson

Jul. 1, 2004, 03:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:

OH! Did you _really_ say this??....>>>Nothing pisses me off more than showing up to braid a mane that some lazy person has chopped off to high heavens with a gadget to "make it look pulled," and then having to braid it. And nothing drives me more insane than a mane that's not properly thinned.<<<<

Yikes, no wonder you're upset with me. You've had a bad day.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you get a decoder ring with that bullshit deflector shield you're wearing?

Stick to the topic at hand - not what anyone said in the past. The topic was about you discouraging someone from buying a TB mare for breeding purposes.

(for the record, anyone who knows me would know my braiding comment was made entirely tongue-in-cheek.)

I find that somewhat hypocritical too. Would you rather free - who breeds sporthorses for three-day eventing - pass on a mare who still meets slaughter, just for the sake of not producing a horse that will likely be an exceptional animal with multiple options for a good home?

SeaOat

Jul. 1, 2004, 04:00 AM

Yes, I would rather FREE pass on breeding another TB (unless, as I've stated before, mare's bred to something OTHER THAN another TB) even if it meant that mare's death. No hypocricy there, braid-guy, have said that LOUD & CLEAR all along.

???"Did you get a decoder ring with that bullshit deflector shield you're wearing?" Whatever.....

ASB Stars

Jul. 1, 2004, 04:36 AM

Let's keep the sand in the ring, boys and girls. There are much LARGER issues here than kicking sand around !

BTW, a person I know that is quite familiar with the goings on at Gambones was here today- and apparently Jack IS in jail. He also mentioned that he does not think that lack of money plays into the equation...so, given that, I am sur that the folks up there will do the right thing by all of their horses.

I also reserve the right to believe in the tooth fairy...LOL ! BUT seriously- I am going to try to take the high road here, and believe that they WILL show some better judgement about the horses that they have left.

Julie

SeaOat

Jul. 1, 2004, 04:55 AM

ABS: Who is Jack? I've missed all that but gather he was an owner of the farm?....or is he the brother of one?
OK, I see from an article pull that the two brothers Anthony & Jack, plus Anthony's son-in-law & Jack's wife & son plus another employee are serving time as well. But what was their connection to Betsy? And was she a Brown (just curious)?

kenbiki

Jul. 1, 2004, 06:00 AM

She's a Brown

Las Olas

Jul. 1, 2004, 09:05 AM

I have set up a "pet trust" for my Las Olas and her clan with my mother and sister as executors. These are legal in the states that have adopted the Uniform Probate Code. I also left a considerable amount of cash (plus phone numbers for vets, farrier, vanning company, and friends that will help & their registration papars)in a safe deposit box (mother and sister have keys), so if something happens to me, they have enough immediate cash to cover expenses until the insurance money pays out. Keep in mind that your horse could live 30 years. I took out 1/2 million, since Las Olas is only a three year old (it costs about $100/month with a whole life and term life plan). She can never be ridden due to a fracture, so I worry more about her well-being. My other horses would be given to friends that I know would want them, so none of them will go to auction. I'm lucky that I have so many friends interested in horses that would give mine good homes, and I have a family who is very supportive of my horse habit and would respect my wishes. I *personally* think that part of owning a horse is to be responsible enough to plan for your animals care just as you would your children after your death. I know that my plan is taking it to the extreme, but even if you designate a particular auction or bloodstock agent to handle their sale (and set reserves), someone with a good reputation, then your horses would be more likely to find their way into a good home.

BaldEagle

Jul. 1, 2004, 09:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
BaldEagle, you quoted "Just in this thread is someone saying that it is looking for a mare..." when referring to a possible home for one (had BBer known about the sale). Yes, & that person was looking for a mare to BREED. Do you not see the irony here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooppss I didn't know for what she wanted the mare for. You see I am not in the breeding busines myself and talking about TB's I always see a way of having a super way of having a good warmblood X for show jumping http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Racing only as a spectator. Not enough cash to think in other things http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Like others, I've been paying taxes for a long time and am disgusted at the amount of my $$ that goes out the window. So, do I think tax $$ should support defunct equine operations? Absolutely NOT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That just make the two of us. Same thing for " horse paradise on hearth" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
I have read through most of your posts and you seem to be confused in separating the rights of some *horsemen* and anothers' ability to voice disgust at how those horsemen abuse those rights. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think so. I am also against any kind of abuse regardless of the animal we are talking about. However some consider horse slaughter in itself an "abuse" regardless of the way and conditions it is carried out, and I see things differently.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
While there are laws preventing you from dumping your dog on the street (& whose taxes pay for many of the city's shelters, by the way? As well as many spay/neuter programs..), I see no difference in making horse owners/breeders held reponsible for their animals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That could lead to another long assessment of the situation and at this point I don't think its necessary. For the time being, disposing of unwanted animals is a necessity be it by slaughter or in some other way.
Our free societies are the best that mankind has poduced since civilization began. However they are not perfect and are full of cracks. Some "human beings" fall trough those cracks and every $$$ spend to support them, avoid them to fall too low and, ultimately to rescue them are more then welcome, I would say even a duty of a society that claims to be civilized. (animals not included here)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Not being able to gain a few bucks at the kill pens. Some people eat dogs & cats but in this society I don't think we should be able to sell Garfield and Odie by the pound. The fine line of what we call a horse under the law, not a domestic pet but _livestock_ sways all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you aware of the economic consequences to many farmers if horses were considered a pet and not livestock ? I don't think so.
Horses are livestock and are very well classified as such.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
We may not be able to stop such stupidity (breeding & such) but we can certainly protest it and hopefully educate a few on the way! E`proprio cosi! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know any type of human activity where we can't find here and there mistakes. I don't know why horse breeding should be different.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
A surplus of anything (humans, horses, or whatever) usually burdens ALL of us, one way or the other. Your tax dollars, if you're paying them, are supporting other peoples' mistakes as we speak. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again you are putting humans and animals in the same basket. Sorry but I draw a huge and profound line at that division. NOTHING that applyies to man must be extended to animals because the first have rights and the later don't. What they get is the result of laws that we humans" as superior beings decided to accord to them.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Feel free to go scream about it from any appropriate platform you choose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I normally don't screem too much and if sometimes I am a little "blunt" I try not to be impolite except in very rare situations where I feel myself "abused" (so to speak) with some kind of statement. Not the case here. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BaldEagle

Jul. 1, 2004, 09:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by breezymeadow:
Wow Bald Eagle - after your post on another thread apparently pro-slaughter - why are you interested? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I forgot to mention in my previous post answering you that I am not in the "meat" business http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

You see I want to win the nest Olimpics show jumping (not Athens) so I still have 4 years to go, but my budget is CAN$2,000 wich is about US$1,500 for two horses!!! (They don't like to be left alone... need companionship of their own kind) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Now can you imagine the kind of deal I must find somewhere near the Canadian border ? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
I am counting on COTHers to find that deal when time comes for that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif
Hence my question about the Our Farm dispersal... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Finally if I understood everything well, all the horses that where not sold still at the Farm and some of those that ended up at New Holland were bought by somebody that went to the dispersal just to by them for New Holland. Is this correct ?

ASB Stars

Jul. 1, 2004, 02:04 PM

Jack is Jack Gambone- the real power in the family, and the decision maker. He controlled everything in the empire- drove a big ol' black Caddy- dressed and coiffed to the nines. In some ways, he was a charismatic guy- easy to like and chat with. I shared a few meals where he was a most gracious host to my boss and I- but his reputation is as a truly tough businessman. Betsy would be his sister in law, I believe, if this is the same Betsy as Ray's widow.

Julie

free

Jul. 1, 2004, 02:09 PM

The rescue mare that I have here will just have to continue to gaze longingly over the fence at the other mare's foal until I am comfortable with her reproducing something that will be wanted. No one can be 100% sure. Many of the horses that go on to the killers were valuable horses at one time. Look at Excelor.

I wish that I had a copy of the true story about the horribly conformed little packmare who saved the lives of those campers by leading them down out of a sudden mountain snowstorm. A lot of horses can have a purpose and her owner sure wished that he could have reproduced her. Now someone might look at her pedigree (I'm sure she didn't have one) on paper and say that it shouldn't be done...but what makes her any less valuable than Smarty Jones. He hasn't saved any lives.

SeaOat...how do you know without first asking what my requisites are in a broodmare? Many a successful Event horse was a failure in your industry. I should know. We have three CANTER horses that we are retraining right now. We also have four other retired OTTBs on the farm.

Now if I want to breed a mare to produce a certain line or type of Event horse, why don't I have that right? I am almost certain that I look for different things in a pedigree than you do. Am I obligated and limited to use only the castoffs of your racing industry? It would have been wise and polite of YOU to have asked questions before you leaped to conclusions.

breezymeadow

Jul. 1, 2004, 04:26 PM

So now I guess I'm also in the hotseat having bought my TB broodmares at auction FOR BREEDING - even though I fully investigated their pedigrees beforehand, spoke at length with their owners, met & handled them beforehand to test for temperment, etc.

You guys just crack me up.

Kinsella

Jul. 2, 2004, 06:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by BaldEagle:
Again you are putting humans and animals in the same basket. Sorry but I draw a huge and profound line at that division. NOTHING that applyies to man must be extended to animals because the first have rights and the later don't. What they get is the result of laws that we humans" as superior beings decided to accord to them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond

Oh thank god the urge has passed...

free

Jul. 2, 2004, 07:00 AM

breezymeadow...all is not lost. If you follow her posts closely, in her infinite wisdom about breeding Sporthorses, SeaOat has granted a small window of grace. IF you breed a TB mare to a warmblood then you will not incur her wrath. Alas, poor Robby (henceforth to be known as 'braid boy'...sorry Robby...I couldn't resist) committed the unforgiveable by breeding a TB mare to 'A Fine Romance'. But breezymeadow beware...ignorance of THE RULES is no excuse. You must swear to NEVER, at any time use TB stallions such as AFR or Salute The Truth etc. with your TB mare.

nelson

Jul. 2, 2004, 07:18 AM

I just have one thing to say . . .

I purchased a two-year-old gelding from Betsy Gambone 14 days prior to the auction. He's listed in the sale book, but I went and looked and got him ahead of time, so he was not part of the auction.

Betsy gave me a good deal on him specifically because she knew who I ride with, where I intended to board him, and, from that, that he would have a good home. She specifically asked me all of these things out of concern for his future. That's all I know from my limited brush with this whole thing, but I thought it was worth adding.

And, by the way, I find it no less relevant to say that I am more than happy with the little guy. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif He has wonderful manners for a two-year-old and was obviously very well cared for and well handled when he was at Our Farm.

breezymeadow

Jul. 2, 2004, 03:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by free:
breezymeadow...all is not lost. If you follow her posts closely, in her infinite wisdom about breeding Sporthorses, SeaOat has granted a small window of grace. IF you breed a TB mare to a warmblood then you will not incur her wrath. Alas, poor Robby (henceforth to be known as 'braid boy'...sorry Robby...I couldn't resist) committed the unforgiveable by breeding a TB mare to 'A Fine Romance'. But breezymeadow beware...ignorance of THE RULES is no excuse. You must swear to NEVER, at any time use TB stallions such as AFR or Salute The Truth etc. with your TB mare. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooohhh - thanks for the heads up. Luckily for me, I guess, I have bred my girls to a Connemara stallion & a couple of Oldenburg/RPSI stallions.

Guess I dodged that bullet. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mbp

Jul. 2, 2004, 03:44 PM

Soooooooo - there are "leftover" horses and they are still at the barn, correct? Can the revise the info that was on the earlier link to list them and maybe there would be some interest?

Also - the horses that were at New Holland had been purchased at the sale, supposedly NOT for resale at NH, but were taken there anyway and the farm and Laurie are looking to see if they can get them back? Is that right?

I got a little confused, what with trying to figure out whether a sig line was meant to be ironic.

Laurierace

Jul. 2, 2004, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mbp:
Soooooooo - there are "leftover" horses and they are still at the barn, correct? Can the revise the info that was on the earlier link to list them and maybe there would be some interest?

Also - the horses that were at New Holland had been purchased at the sale, supposedly NOT for resale at NH, but were taken there anyway and the farm and Laurie are looking to see if they can get them back? Is that right?

I got a little confused, what with trying to figure out whether a sig line was meant to be ironic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tracked down the horses and it was in fact, too late. As I understand it, the horses that did not sell were some of the better horses at the sale because they had reserves on them.

Bea

Jul. 2, 2004, 07:01 PM

Oh dear, not to drag this thing out. But I too am really confused. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

There was a dispersal sale at Our Farm. Some horses had reserves on them which weren't made. Therefore they weren't sold and are still at the farm. But someone bought a bunch of horses at the dispersal sale. And then took them, unbeknownst to the owners of Our Farm, to New Holland to be sold for slaughter. And they were sold for slaughter and it's too late to change their fates now. But it's still possible to purchase the horses still at Our Farm who didn't meet the reserve in the dispersal sale.

Am I right?

Laurierace

Jul. 2, 2004, 07:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bea:
Oh dear, not to drag this thing out. But I too am really confused. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

There was a dispersal sale at Our Farm. Some horses had reserves on them which weren't made. Therefore they weren't sold and are still at the farm. But someone bought a bunch of horses at the dispersal sale. And then took them, unbeknownst to the owners of Our Farm, to New Holland to be sold for slaughter. And they were sold for slaughter and it's too late to change their fates now. But it's still possible to purchase the horses still at Our Farm who didn't meet the reserve in the dispersal sale.

Am I right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right all except the very last part. I have no idea if the horses whose reserves weren't met are still available. You would have to contact the farm.

Beezer

Jul. 2, 2004, 08:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kinsella:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by BaldEagle:
Again you are putting humans and animals in the same basket. Sorry but I draw a huge and profound line at that division. NOTHING that applyies to man must be extended to animals because the first have rights and the later don't. What they get is the result of laws that we humans" as superior beings decided to accord to them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond
I will not respond

Oh thank god the urge has passed... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh, Kinsella, just keep in mind that some of us are more highly evolved than birds. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BaldEagle

Jul. 3, 2004, 11:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kinsella:
Oh thank god the urge has passed... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was it difficult ? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Horsefeathers21

Jul. 3, 2004, 02:23 PM

Now, for the rest of the story… I volunteered at the auction at Our Farm, and ride there often. My role prior to the sale was putting detailed signs up for each horse with their pedigree, and, especially the mares that didn’t have foals this year, an additional sign about what training they’d had this year, as the hope was that someone might ride them throughout this year, then either breed them next year or just continue to ride them, or use them for lessons or trail rides. Extensive work went into the programs detailing each horse, their pedigree, how much money they’d made, etc. The programs were widely distributed at Philadelphia Park Philadelphia Park, Penn National, Monmouth, Delaware and West Virginia all received 150 catologs and hundreds of flyers), as well many major horse show associations. Many programs were mailed out, and many of the bidders already had a program when they came in. The website also advertised the auction. In additional the local newspapers (I saw it myself in the Times Herald) including the front page of the sports sections before the Preakness and the Belmont. Also, interestingly, the auction was mentioned on this very website on June 10th – I won’t mention who posted it:
posted Jun. 10, 2004 11:17 AM Jun. 10, 2004 11:17 AM
Cool I purchase one as well for my birthday and I found out yestday that she is coming in-foal and with a one-month old by her side, which of course I'm going to have to keep as well lol.

Also Congrats to NELSON on her NEW purchase of a really cute, really big 2yr old TB geld.

I'm telling you all, there are some super nice TB's being offered at auction 6/25...PT for more info

I know that in the past, horses at the farm have been both bought and sold from auctions in other states. This is not an uncommon way of selling or purchasing quality horses.
My job the day of the auction was to register bidders and to complete transactions after the sales. In all of the transactions, a tax form was filled out and signed by each buyer stating that the horses would be used for thoroughbred racing, which could involve breeding as well as racing. The great majority of the bidders had track licenses. Each horse at the auction was a registered thoroughbred, and the auction was intended not only to reduce the monthly overhead at the farm, but also with the hope that these horses would go on to win, or produce winners. So, if someone came to the farm that day with the intention of taking them to New Holland, I can assure you that they forged the tax document, and lied about their intended use of these beautiful horses. Any unsold horses are indeed still at the farm.
I urge each one of you to visit the farm’s website at ourfarminc.com and see the letter that Betsy has posted there. Yes there are always beautiful, well-bred horses at the farm for sale, not only thoroughbreds, but quarter horses as well, and she is the best person to contact to discuss purchasing them. This was the right decision to help the farm to continue to operate as a working horse farm. These hurtful, incorrect statements cannot help her in her efforts. These kinds of statements would be best directed at any buyers that lied about why they were purchasing these horses and re-sold them at New Holland, if that’s what they did, and not directed at Our Farm.

kenbiki

Jul. 3, 2004, 02:48 PM

We have a livestock auction in our area that has sales once a month or so. I just read in the local trade paper that they are having a "special broodmare sale",some with babies at their side.My gut tells me that they could be some of the mares that were sold at OF.I'm waiting for more info.This sale is not typically known as a killer sale rather,it's more of a riding horse sale.I don't know how much info I can get.I put a call in inquiring if these were quarter horse broodmares or thorobred.I'm hoping he calls back. The sale in July 10 in Pa. I'll post again as soon as I know.

ASB Stars

Jul. 3, 2004, 04:33 PM

Would it be possible to get a list of those horses that are still available posted either here, or on the Our Farm site ? Obviously, it would be i the best interest of everyone, especially the horses, if there was some additional information as well as pictures, descriptions, etc. easily accessible. Given the nature of the situation, I am hoping that the admins would not see this as blatant advertisement.

Julie

GMfan

Jul. 3, 2004, 05:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Laurierace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kenbiki:
Laurierace...are you sure,absolutely sure of this info????????I can't tell you how upset I am and I will sever all ties if this is true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am absolutely positive. I have been working with this rescue for 6 years now. We have a representative at New Holland every Monday. My friend watched the whole thing unfold. I made a few calls trying to find someone to take some of the mares, but no one wanted to carry a barren mare until next spring when she could be bred. They also would not donate the mares, we offered to take some of them, but they wanted the cash, not the tax receipt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GMfan

Jul. 3, 2004, 05:20 PM

I posted the quote above to reorient the forum to the falsehood so positively affirmed.
======
I have been reading this string of commentary for 2 days now. Let me begin by saying that I am not “in” the racing, warmblood, hunter jumper, or any other horse industry. I am an avid animal and horse lover who has been riding at Our Farm for nearly 9 years and in many places in the decade before. You may therefore choose to disregard my words as being from some ignorant or perhaps uninformed source. Frankly I would prefer to believe, of those who might think this of me, that they, in fact, are the ignorant and uninformed individuals in this discussion. With that said, please read my thoughts.

I do not generally respond on discussion forums because I think that they are gossip rags. Gossip in itself is a form of killing. Killing seems to be something you are all vary concerned with…at least when it comes to horses. When you talk about people and their lives and (even dare you) their emotions, you are potentially and actually killing their name and reputation. All but a very few of you are all guilty of it. Do your business, save your horses or slaughter horses as you see fit. Leave others out of your discussions. Talk business. Buy horses, sell horses, find out where things are happening. Worry about your own financial well being. Worry about your own family members who may be in trouble…with the law, with drugs, with domestic violence, with disease, with grief, with disability, with apathy, with eating disorders, with alcohol, with poverty and wealth, with depression, with mental illness….they need you far more than you probably know. You do not, nor do I, know what any of you, or the Gambones truly do and feel in a given day.

If the very first person in this discussion forum had REALLY wanted to know what had happened before during and after the Our Farm dispersal sale, he or she would have taken his or her precious time to seek answers from factual sources. Direct contact with the farm, the owner, the staff and VOLUNTEERS, would have eliminated this string of emotional, uninformed commentary. Every individual worked diligently during and in the months before, to run a professional, legal and humane sale that would provide an event for professional, legal and humane breeders and trainers to buy well bred and cared for TB horses.

Let it be known that I personally spent literally hundreds of hours with those very broodmares you are all discussing. I groomed them; I rode them back into good condition; I ran my hands along their necks them when they were nervous and ran my hands along those same necks when they were brilliantly calm and proudly moving forward; I bathed them and grazed them and combed their manes until they glistened. I talked to them and sang to them as I brushed them in the aisle and trotted them in the arenas. I took many of them outside on trails through fields and trees. I spent hours talking with people who knew them from the very moments they were born. I learned of their history, their foals, their mood swings, their successes and unforgettable stories.

If these animals met with a fate that was not ideal, it was not the intention of Our Farm. That is the only fact worth mentioning about the sale. The sale was well advertised and directed to breeders and trainers in the racing industry. This was not an auction to “get rid” of horses. It was a dispersal sale of well-bred and well cared for TB horses. The hearts most broken by a less than ideal fate for any of Our Farm’s horses would be Betsy, Matthew, Katelyn, Robert and all those who breed and raise these fine animals. Life goes on folks. Let’s celebrate the memories those mares gave to all of us who loved them, and all those memories yet to be made by their progeny sold throughout the years that are living all over PA and beyond.

Now let’s all get back to our own lives, ok?

ASB Stars

Jul. 3, 2004, 06:33 PM

If I understand correctly, you believe that the highest and best use for each of these horses was in the hands of a racehorse enthusiast- breeder, trainer, owner, etc.

Further, you feel that, in order to best find these people, the advertising that was done was appropriate.

I spend an inordinate amount of my life working to place horses (of another breed) into homes other than that which the breeder intended. Why ? Because they simply are not part of the top percentile for the enthusiasts- breeders, owners, and trainers- of their breed.

While I applaud your obvious commitment and dedication to these horses, and these people, I would still state that these horses were not best served by the method that was taken for their dispersal. They aren't all the "top percentile". Kentucky did not come calling. Some vile, reprehensible jerk did. The prices, if accurately stated, that were obtained at this sale do not reflect animals from top producing families of their breed.

This doesn't make them "bad horses". It makes them horses that might have found better homes if they had been presented to a broader cross section of quality buyers.

Julie

kenbiki

Jul. 3, 2004, 07:30 PM

I am the first person that posted this.I most certainly did not post to create this tirade that has occurred.I honestly felt it was sad that people were not willing to pay more for these animals.I am not the one who created the stir concerning where these animals possibly could have ended up.I also have had and continue to have ties to OurFarm in the business sense.We were quite close to Ray,which was why I was so shocked at these allegations and did question there authenticity.Never did I state falsehoods nor,as I stated before,do I have any need or want to be involved falsehoods and gossip . I tried to be helpful by finding out about the local auction because I felt that,some of the posters were sorry that they missed out on the broodmares.If this auction has some of the mares then they(the posters) can have a chance at them. I also am not saying that whoever has this auction is wrong...he has every right to pinhook these mares in this manner.Like I mentioned before,this auction has a good rep. But then again,this could be jumping the gun since he hasn't returned my call.I'm only hoping that these are OF mares with babies at their side.I also have purchased some of the stock and am thrilled with them.Again,I would appreciate not being thrown together with the flamethrowers.Thank you

kenbiki

Jul. 3, 2004, 07:36 PM

Secondly,I did not want to know "what happened" at the sale,but rather,as stated,I asked what peoples "thoughts" were.

fernie fox

Jul. 3, 2004, 08:19 PM

From Horsefeathers21.
Quote.
In all of the transactions, a tax form was filled out and signed by each buyer stating that the horses would be used for thoroughbred racing, which could involve breeding as ...

Therefore as these forms were filled out and should be on the Auctioneers files.

You know exactly who you sold these horses to.

kenbiki

Jul. 4, 2004, 05:48 PM

The horses in the sale I was talking about are paints not thorobreds.....just talked to the guy and thought I'd let you know.

nelson

Jul. 5, 2004, 11:57 AM

Just for the record, I did not buy my horse for racing purposes (he was purchased as a hunter prospect), so I had to pay tax. Betsy was very careful to make it clear that the form had to be completed for the sale to be tax-exempt. I certainly wasn't going to lie to avoid paying a few dollars, so I paid tax on my purchase price.

ASB Stars

Jul. 5, 2004, 12:38 PM

Well, gee...

I suppose that means the slime ball that purchased the horses to take to New Holland, has committed tax fraud, also.

I assume this, of course, based upon the idea that they certainly would have wanted to get the horses as inexpensively as possible- so- heck, why pay sales tax (6%) ?

Even Capone got sent up for taxes, as opposed to the other evil things he had done !

Julie

fernie fox

Jul. 5, 2004, 08:12 PM

The only time you can give a tax break at auction,the purchaser HAS to supply a CURRENT copy of the tax exempt status,this should be retained by the seller for their records.

Anyone in business can apply for a Tax exempt cert.

breezymeadow

Jul. 6, 2004, 10:29 AM

Not necessarily so Fernie.

Professional Auction Services, based here in Virginia, holds sporthorse, hunter, & pony auctions all over the country, are definitely "professional", above board, & follow the law to the letter. They are very well thought of.

When I bid on & won a very nice JC-registered TB mare at one of their auctions, which I was purchasing for breeding purposes, they asked me what the mare was going to be used for. I told them "breeding", signed a statement/form to that effect, & that was it. No tax was due or charged, & I did tell them that I was not tax exempt.

I asked my accountant this question once tax time rolled around & he confirmed the same thing - that my broodmare was exempt from sales tax.

Rift

Jul. 6, 2004, 10:57 AM

Not having read through all of this I can help you get some insight in the whole Our Farm matter since I worked there for along time. Ray was at heart a very good man. I have seen him work longer and harder than any other person I know to save the lives of many horses that other people would have destroyed. He would be physically ill when he knew one of his horses was sick or injured. They were the only things that he loved in life besides his family nad sometimes I wonder if the horses didn't come first of the two. How many people do you know that would pay to winter and entire herd of horses (hay, feed, shoes if needed) every winter just because he liked them. Were talking old, cripple, geldings, you name it. Sure, there are some horses that he should not have bred but he had a knack for taking the most unlikely horse and turning it into a winner. Alot of people only know the les than kind and sometimes ruthless side of him (and his brothers) but the've never seen him at two in the morning covered in blood and about to cry bacause he couldn't save a mare that bled out when it faoled. Ray couldn't relate to people but that didn't make him a bad guy. Betsy has been left with a hell of a mess to try to care for. I do not envy her position. I don't know how much Ray's brothers are or are not helping financially but even with help she's looking at a staggering loss of income every month with the number of (non income producing)horses on the property. We all get up in arms about people that let their horses starve to death and about horse slaughter but when it comes right down to it which is worse??? Weeks or minutes??? Betsy is a good person but I know in her shoes if it was between loosing my farm and my income vs. loosing some horses I would have to side with what she did. Flame me or not but having been at that farm for a long time and seeing all of the GOOD that they have done for many horses I can relate to where they are now. Feed yourself or feed some horses. Sometimes people have to make a choice.