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fjording
Aug. 11, 2011, 08:32 PM
Hi!
I'm new.
I'm from Australia and have a Fjord gelding named Sammy.
I had a ginormous warmblood (18.1hh- BIG boy!) however I sold him a couple of weeks ago as he was just TOO big for me and he and I just did not click (awesome educated horse and taught me HEAPS but I didn't get along with him at all)

Anyway, I have been looking for another horse to buy for a bit now and being a student I have a verrrrry limited budget.
Basically I want something fairly young around the 4-7 mark (though not fresh from the breakers, that's a bit to green for me!). Not a TB, nothing against them they just aren't for me. And a stocky 14.2-15.2.
So being in a price range of under around $6000 I am limited and a lot of what I have to choose from are "diamonds in the rough" so to speak!

I would like some opinions on this mare, she is a 4 year old 15hh warmblood, by Carbine (this stallion - http://www.jaybeefarm.com.au/) I don't know what the dam was, though being only 15hh I don't think she was very big and unlikely a warmblood as Carbine babies are usually at least 16hh and the majority I have seen have been 17hh.

She is at my instructors place to be sold on. She has spent 6 months plodding around with a 12 year old. She hasn't done any "proper" work, which perhaps is why her neck is a bit icky? I am not very good with the finer points of conformation. I can MAJOR things, like the gross neck, slightly too long perhaps?

But I just want to know some realisitic opinions on this "diamond in the rough". I posted them on another forum I am on more regularly and no one would actually point out any conformation points, they were only saying I like her or I don't like her, they couldn't actually give me a reason as to WHY they did or didn't :-S

Please note that these photos are on a slight incline (the paddock slopes dramatically upward) and this was the flattest area I could put her in to take pictures, she isn't my horse so I could not take her out of the paddock and had to pretty much shove her down the slope to the bottom :P

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/katiealfredson/photo.jpg
http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/katiealfredson/photo-1.jpg
http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/katiealfredson/photo-2.jpg

AnotherRound
Aug. 11, 2011, 09:59 PM
She has a big, coarse head which I don't like; short cannons and a weak stifle. Her shoulder isn't straight but it isn't great, either, I would imagine she has a short, choppy trot.

I would not look twice at her, sorry. There are lovely Quarter horses and other grade types with better conformation.

YOu need to keep looking.

I know you don't like TBs, but here in the US there are some lovely TBs off the track with a good start who are small, 15 to 15.2 hands for only a thousand or two.

If you want to educate yourself, look at the US horses on the Canterusa.org sites. This will give you some ideas about all kinds of conformation, and you can post those horses and ask about what you see and what others see to start educating yourself better.

There are recent threads on this board where people talk about conformation and what to look for.

I find, even at my old age, I really enjoy the conformation critique given every month from Practical Horseman, so get a subscription to that, it realy helps to educate you. See if you can buy some books. Read what dressage coaches and trainers say is ideal in a dressage horse.

http://www.eques.com.au/dressage/jan06/conformation_dressage_horse.htm


Here is a really good article about dressage horse conformation, in detail. It may seem , as you read it, that you could never afford such a horse, but realize that if you know what traits to look for, you may begin to see the potential in a previously overlooked horse, because she lacks papers or something, or because she is a grade, but you can find the right conformation in many horses. Just educate yourself about what to look for, and the balance from head to tail you should see.

SisterToSoreFoot
Aug. 11, 2011, 10:11 PM
I like her hind end, but not much else. The ugly head/bad neck would be deal breakers for me. Maybe if she was an awesome mover with a stellar personality you might consider her. Beauty is as beauty does. But I seriously doubt, given her look, that she is anything special in motion. Is she?

I think you can do better. But how about just doing dressage on your Fjord? Spending the 6k on lessons/clinics might get you further in your dressage journey than taking on a second horse. If you have limited funds/time (since you're a student) and already have a horse, lessons seem a better use of the $, IMO. Supporting 2 horses will leave you less money/time for education--and education is what really makes dressage horses and riders.

fjording
Aug. 11, 2011, 10:25 PM
Thanks for that. She has got a bit of a plain head but is supposed to be a decent mover according to my instructor. The plain head doesn't really bother me, it's amazing what a flattering bridle can do for one! I liked her hind end too, but was a bit meh about her front and neck. I don't want a world beater, just something capable of eventually getting to around 3rd level. Realistically I am not a talented rider so I don't expect to be getting an FEI potential horse, I doubt I'd be able to ride one!

The reason I am buying another horse is because my fjord has some issues with his legs that are limiting. On vet advice and the advice of my instructor we have decided to back off with his workload as he physically may not remain sound in the long run. He's older too, 15 and has had a hard life before I got him. He's my heart horse so the last thing I want to do is break him down, I'd rather have a horse I can still hop on in his 20s than a lame one!

Manni01
Aug. 11, 2011, 10:27 PM
Ok it is really tricky to judge a horse by a picture..
if I would be interested in her, I would inquire about her past. how was she raised?? She doesn't look like a horse in that age should look when it's properly raised....

That would be a huge concern for me because lack of proper minerals in the growing phase might cause problems later on.

IMO she might improve when fed and trained properly, but it will take a long time.

So for me it would depend on her quality of movement, her price and the amount of time I would be willing to invest.....

The conformation of a horse is one thing but not always everything...

mickeydoodle
Aug. 11, 2011, 11:26 PM
sorry, ugly head, weedy conformation, would not be expecting to pay more than $600 for this horse.

WBLover
Aug. 12, 2011, 08:33 AM
And really short pasterns, also makes for a very jarring trot. I agree, keep looking. You should be able to get a really nice smaller WB for a great price, everybody seems to want the 16.2+ handers!

siegi b.
Aug. 12, 2011, 08:45 AM
I don't think the mare is nearly as bad as most everybody here makes her out to be... Manni01, I believe comes closest when she says that the horse probably hasn't had the best nutrition in her life. That's the same impression I get, and so with some good feed and training to put some muscling on her, I think this mare will be a good riding horse for the OP.

Just my opinion.....

SillyHorse
Aug. 12, 2011, 09:06 AM
I would not reject this mare until I had ridden her and didn't like her under saddle. Pictures can be deceiving, in both good and bad ways.

esdressage
Aug. 12, 2011, 09:50 AM
I don't care about how her head looks, more about what's in it. What's her attitude/mind like?

Her neck's not so terrible… you'd be amazed what proper muscling would do there. I do think she has a nice hind end, but those pasterns are awfully short. I doubt she'd be fabulous at looking "floaty" in the arena, although they do have good slope, so who knows?

All that said, and I'm probably in the minority here for saying this, but I'm a sucker for horses who don't look like much, but could be taken, given proper feed, veterinary care and training, and turned into something really special. The crux of the matter in that case though is that you need something with potential hidden in there, so her movement should be surprisingly good, and she needs to have a spectacular attitude. If your trainer says she has great movement, there's a step in the right direction. As for attitude, she looks like she has a very kind eye, hopefully a good sign.

GraceLikeRain
Aug. 12, 2011, 10:04 AM
If you want something that could eventually take you to 2nd-3rd level I would pass. For under $6k I think you could do much better.

ToN Farm
Aug. 12, 2011, 10:12 AM
If you want something that could eventually take you to 2nd-3rd level I would pass. For under $6k I think you could do much better.
Yeah, horses that have potential to do a competent 3rd level are a dime a dozen under 6k. Uh-huh.:no: You all ought to have one then, right?

I agree with Siegi. This isn't a horse I would personally buy because I have a bigger budget. However, for 6k I think she may work out if she moves well enough and vets sound. Like a lot of people, a pretty head is important to me, but not if the trade off is getting an OTTB.

meupatdoes
Aug. 12, 2011, 10:33 AM
Yeah, horses that have potential to do a competent 3rd level are a dime a dozen under 6k. Uh-huh.:no: You all ought to have one then, right?

I agree with Siegi. This isn't a horse I would personally buy because I have a bigger budget. However, for 6k I think she may work out if she moves well enough and vets sound. Like a lot of people, a pretty head is important to me, but not if the trade off is getting an OTTB.

Oh please.

Let's not get too excited about how special lead changes and some trot half pass are.

Maybe it makes you feel better that you can reach these exhalted heights with your "bigger budget" horses, but while they may not score in the 70's, most of the TBs off the track could do it "competently" as long as the rider is also competent.

Lots of riders have third level horses that they have never accessed because the problem lies with the pilot. Plenty of them could move their $2,500 horses up the levels to AT LEAST Third if they would spend some money on lessons and learn how to ride. In fact I think a lot of people could learn a whole lot more and get a lot further if they got a basically free horse from the tack and spent the money on three lessons a week instead.

ToN Farm
Aug. 12, 2011, 11:24 AM
Mepat, your opinion is just as valuable to me as mine is to you. I've seen your videos, and the fact that you think DavidG is a good trainer tells me a lot about your judgment. Case closed. I'd appreciate it if you didn't respond to any of my posts. We live in different worlds.

meupatdoes
Aug. 12, 2011, 11:48 AM
Mepat, your opinion is just as valuable to me as mine is to you. I've seen your videos, and the fact that you think DavidG is a good trainer tells me a lot about your judgment. Case closed. I'd appreciate it if you didn't respond to any of my posts. We live in different worlds.

I'm sorry, now your world is so superior to mine I should not even be allowed to RESPOND to you, your highness?

You're such a trip!
:lol::lol::lol:

Carol Ames
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:27 PM
unfortunate placing of the tree isn't it, on top of her rump:lol:;

I would ask your instructor to ask her to work:eek:, put her on the bit, easy leg yielding, bending and see how, she responds; My fear is that she may simply say "NO:mad:,, no can do; her conformation as far as we can tell, does not promise much:no:; she is NOT built like an athlete:no::o

Kyzteke
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:59 PM
I don't know the market in your neck of the world, but it seems to me you could do alot better for $6,000.

That being said, this mare isn't horrid by any means. Yeah, a plain head, but you don't ride the head.

I disagree on her pasterns -- don't think they are short at all. I think they look shorter than they are because of all the hair she has on her fetlocks.

Not crazy about the way her neck ties into her chest (abit low), but it's not the worst I've ever seen.

Looks like her legs/feet are fairly correct, but hard to tell without more pics from front & side.

As others have noted, pics just tell part of the story. More importantly is how she moves (forget what your trainer tells you, she is trying to make a sale) and what her mind is like.

However, all things being equal, it does seem like she is priced very high for a 4 yr old with her conformation and almost no "real" training.

Here in the States you could pick up a horse like her for $2000.

You might be better served spending your whole budget on a older, more experienced horse...a lower level schoolmaster. Even with a few physical maintainence issues, I would think you are likely to go farther than you would being a green (dressage) rider trying to train a green horse. That can be a very frustrating journey.

netg
Aug. 12, 2011, 02:04 PM
I don't care about how her head looks, more about what's in it. What's her attitude/mind like?

Her neck's not so terribleā€¦ you'd be amazed what proper muscling would do there. I do think she has a nice hind end, but those pasterns are awfully short. I doubt she'd be fabulous at looking "floaty" in the arena, although they do have good slope, so who knows?

The floatiness could be an issue, but beyond that I prefer shorter pasterns for soundness. Many of the horses with longer pasterns also have tendon problems I'd like to avoid in my own horses.

Short cannons was pointed out as if it were a flaw - again, that's something you want in a horse.

I don't know what $6000 for a horse is in Australia vs. the US. Here, I'd expect something nicer for that price, which has had an apparently better upbringing. Just a hint for everyone - remember it's winter there. I would still expect a $6000 horse to look more like it's thriving than she does.

This horse looks like a different horse in the two side shots. Very interesting. I really dislike the apparent stifle placement in the right shot, but the left side looks fine so I would watch motion as far as that goes.

I'm not concerned about the neck shape. It's not lovely, and ties in lower into the chest than I like to see, but I think proper work and conditioning will keep the neck from being a hindrance. I don't like how the withers are essentially over the front legs - you want them farther back (due to shoulder length) because that indicates a greater ability to lift the forehand and reach with the shoulders. Usually.

What concerns me most, though, is the horse's back. The horse's back in front of the SI region has that bump/dip look of a horse who is having problems in the SI region. From the location of the dip I'm guessing the alignment isn't what you want there - but it's something you have to feel along the spine to know for sure. This makes it physically harder for the horse to collect, and once they start getting that bump/dip along their topline it's an indication of pain or a problem most of the time. I would consider checking the horse out under saddle, and consider having a chiropractor (who is a vet, too) check her out if you like her under saddle. But if $6000 is as much there as here, I'd likely pass. It doesn't mean I don't like her, and I feel she probably has quite a lot of value to her from your description - it's just that I would expect more for the price.

fjording
Aug. 12, 2011, 03:32 PM
Wow heap of replies.
I posted her because like what most people say, all I saw was a weedy scraggy black horse when I was expecting something a bit nicer after hearing what my trainer had said about her before seeing her.
It's interesting to see some people commenting that she may have physical issues, this horse was actually dumped at an auction for being a really nasty bucker. The current owners paid $800 and apparently "rode the buck out of her". But then again she has only been fluffing around with a kid for 6 months so it will be interesting to see if she reverts backto the bucking when asked to work properly as she's with my trainer for 2 weeks of schooling. I also agree she is horribly overpriced and if I did like her undersaddle we would offer $2000 which I thought was generous considering her past and current condition. We would also be getting xrays done as I am determined to not buy a dud after having a dangerous horse ( I had a fancy and very beautiful horse who teleport spooked and flipped on people when he panicked.)

enthusiasm_exceeds_ability
Aug. 12, 2011, 07:31 PM
fjording, where are you? I know of a FANTASTIC dressage horse, supposed to be an eventer, doesn't really want to jump, but who has it all for $7000. As in is rapidly moving up the grades and is only being sold because of the eventing focus.

You can do better, especially in this market.

Kaluna
Aug. 12, 2011, 08:23 PM
I gotta say, I don't think his mare is as terrible as many think. What's her attitude like? Is she smart and wanting to please? Is she kind and pleasant to deal with? Does she have good movement? Was her bucking due to bad training/riding/tack or physical issues? A nice moving, willing, pleasant, young horse could be work $6K and you may be able to negotiate. Her father seemed to do well. ANd she's the size and build that you want. You want a diamond in the rough? Maybe that's what she is. Why pass her up without trying her out?

Her neck is underdeveloped and ties in low but not terribly low. He back is on the long side but I've seen worse. Her head is big. Her humerus looks a little short so I wonder how her shoulder range is. None of that means she can't do third level, tho. She's been hanging out in a field with no muscle tone and ridden by kids- can't tell very much about her potential from wooly snapshots.

Can you post a video? Try her out and go from there, that's what I'd do.

K.

alto
Aug. 13, 2011, 01:24 AM
she's with my trainer for 2 weeks of schooling.
This is key, try to watch her progress as the days go by; assuming your trainer is decent, the horse should improve markedly with each ride - if not, pass her by.
If she's dull or panics or shuts down under pressure, you'll spend a great deal of time & money repairing those training issues.


horse was actually dumped at an auction for being a really nasty bucker
How much are you prepared to spend in Xrays etc? you've already had the dangerous horse experience, why buy another?

fjording
Sep. 3, 2011, 08:04 AM
A bit of an update on this post. I had a proper ride of Ebony today and I enjoyed her!
She's the greenest horse I have ever ridden and has been in proper dressage work for two weeks when the video I will post was taken from today or my lesson on her.
She's only just begun circles and is still super wobbly and speeds up to balance herself. She's very kind and forgiving of my mistakes and the market is so bad that the owners have given her to me for a month to ride and compete on as she would just sit in their paddock and do nothing if I don't try her out. So even if I don't buy her she is a great "first" young horse as she is REALLY chilled out. She's a lovely forward horse but tires quickly and when she's tired she wants to stop. She's very uncomplicated to ride.

My first ride on Ebony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUXbaMZTNUs

Mrs.ChickenBritches
Sep. 3, 2011, 10:05 AM
Well, after seeing the video, I like her and would offer the 2000. She looks like a mare that will do her best to do what you want with a little bit of sass. That's my favorite kind. If the owners really want to get rid of her, they may take it. :)

paulaedwina
Sep. 3, 2011, 10:22 AM
I think if you like her you should get her. A bit of vinegar is good in a competition horse IMO.

Paula

fjording
Sep. 3, 2011, 10:31 AM
Hopefully my next rides go well on her. I thought she did pretty good considering the slighty rocky start she's had, and she is pretty cute considering she's only just 14.3hh. I'm a bit dissapointed that she is 150cm as that makes her too tall for pony dressage by just 1cm! She would have been much more valuable if she were just that 1cm smaller!

Petstorejunkie
Sep. 3, 2011, 10:52 AM
Take her shoes off and trim short....

fjording
Sep. 3, 2011, 11:01 AM
without the shoes she'd have to lose 2cm.
149cm with shoes and 148 without.
I have heard some people put racing shoes on them as apparently they are less thick? But I think the rules are becoming stricter with what kind of shoes will be considered as the 1cm.

Justa Bob
Sep. 3, 2011, 11:42 AM
....this horse was actually dumped at an auction for being a really nasty bucker. The current owners paid $800 and apparently "rode the buck out of her". But then again she has only been fluffing around with a kid for 6 months so it will be interesting to see if she reverts backto the bucking when asked to work properly as she's with my trainer for 2 weeks of schooling.....

I also agree she is horribly overpriced and if I did like her undersaddle we would offer $2000 which I thought was generous considering her past and current condition. We would also be getting xrays done as I am determined to not buy a dud after having a dangerous horse ( I had a fancy and very beautiful horse who teleport spooked and flipped on people when he panicked.)

Devils advocate here...

Great that you are having xrays taken...Red flags are a history of a nasty bucker and green. And your trainer really likes the horse with these problems. And she is knocking around at your trainers. You, however, are buying any problems, not your trainer.

You will be the one who needs to address the unknowns. What if the bucking is from a physical / pain issue? What if the bucking is behavioral and returns out of the blue or in a particular circumstance? $2000 seems high for a green horse that had a bucking problem when the market is down (at least in the US people can't give away sound horses).

Are there any other horses you have looked at? Is there really nothing in the $6000 price range to try?

Now, on the other side. She may have a heart of gold and be as smart as they come and will give you her all. Her photo is just that one picture. Working with her you may really find a gem. Conformation queen or not!

Best wishes!

alto
Sep. 3, 2011, 11:46 AM
She's very kind and forgiving of my mistakes and the market is so bad that the owners have given her to me for a month to ride and compete on as she would just sit in their paddock and do nothing if I don't try her out. So even if I don't buy her she is a great "first" young horse as she is REALLY chilled out. She's a lovely forward horse but tires quickly and when she's tired she wants to stop.

This is very much a win situation for the owners as horse gets in shape(& educated) with a kind, sensitive rider :)
If you think you want to buy her, you might consider having a number on the table ... if she shows a deal of promise, owners may suddenly decide that her price is 2K higher than it would be if you bought her at the beginning of the month - of course, by then you'll be rather attached & may find yourself paying that elevated price :(

Given the nasty buck history, make sure that trainer gets on & really pushes her to try & find that buck before you buy her.

My less than enthusiastic opinion: she'd do fine at the lower levels but doesn't stand out in looks or movement,
& as she's too big for pony dressage & rather small for most adults, she'll likely not bring you a lot of return as a project horse.

If you really like her & want to have her to play with & know that you'll improve her lot in life ... well those are also sufficient reasons to buy her :) there's no doubt that she'll come a long ways from where she is at the moment!

fjording
Sep. 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
So Ebony went to a dressage day yesterday! She's very different from the disgusting hairy creature that first arrived. Her winter coat is almost gone, and she's getting black. She was very tense, but there were some GREAT bits inbetween the very dodgy bits. I had to cut the corners because she wants to try and line up the edges of the arenas to jump them, and then I'd end up cutting a corner and having to veer rather violently to do a loop. The canter was actually controlled and not overly fast!

My instructor went away for a week and I was by myself and I didn't realize I was letting her get away with things, so I had a lesson yesterday and got a verbal beating from my instructor who is going to give her some rides this week to help me out! I didn't realize how difficult young horses are! But she's a very good girl, she never does anything bad, she doesn't spook or have tantrums like some babies i've ridden.

I was very proud of her attempt yesterday, and even though it was sort of a disaster with my lack of steering (egg shaped 20m circles... woops, the judge actually gave me an arena diagram to study at the end of my test! XD)
She decided she was going to do an uncalled for extension down the diagonal and my sister and friend said there was a collective "oooo" from the side where people were sitting/watching, and a lot of strangers came up to me and said she is a lovely horse! So she will get vetted hopefully this week (have to make a time with the vet) and then we will buy her!

Here are a couple of pictures from yesterday, it was a breast cancer fundraiser. As you can see, my hands were too tight because she wanted to go FAST, which did not help the locked up neck situation. But there were some amazing relaxed bits in the warmup and I was grinning ear to ear when I heard her back shoes clicking on her fronts and she felt like she was just cruising along. So proud of the little poppet.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/305383_197651236971951_100001812293082_437856_2002 07548_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299835_197651583638583_100001812293082_437863_1762 035981_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/304709_197651140305294_100001812293082_437850_1079 57076_n.jpg

quietann
Sep. 25, 2011, 05:25 PM
wow, very nice progress!

SisterToSoreFoot
Sep. 25, 2011, 07:20 PM
Wow, she sure does clean up nice!

Maybe its good you ignored the skeptics on this thread (including me!) and are going for it. In the shots you posted, the mare looks active, free in the shoulder, and has a lovely, keen expression. She might be one of those horses who doesn't look like much standing in the field but is pretty in motion.

She looks fancy.

lovey1121
Sep. 25, 2011, 07:24 PM
Gorgeous photos! She looks like a diff'rint hoss! Best of luck!

fjording
Sep. 27, 2011, 03:42 AM
Thanks :D
I am SO glad I trusted my instructor and gave her a chance because she's just such a sweet girl. She still hasn't quite gotten the concept of the low white fenced dressage arenas and wants to treat them like Cavaletti, but she really does want to do the right thing, she just doesn't know what it is yet.
I am really looking forward to seeing her in 6 months if this is what 4 weeks has done for her!

fjording
Sep. 30, 2011, 04:26 AM
:( Unfortunately Ebony didn't pass the vet today
She flexed positive on one of her front legs, and then on the xrays the vet found a bone spur
Owners have decided to take her back because my vet told me to pass :(
Really dissapointed!!!!

esdressage
Sep. 30, 2011, 08:22 AM
I'm so sorry. You must be devastated :(

SillyHorse
Sep. 30, 2011, 08:54 AM
Aw, that's a shame. I'm sorry.

WBLover
Sep. 30, 2011, 09:27 AM
That is a real bummer, because I too thought she cleaned up really nice!! I wonder if the bone spur was what was causing the bucking? She may have been in pain and when people rode her the concussion made it worse. Where was the spur exactly?

I think you did the right thing in passing. There are too many horses out there without problems that you HAVE to buy this one. The owners got something out of it though, that's for sure! You put some miles on the mare for them and I hope they appreciated that.

esdressage
Sep. 30, 2011, 10:54 AM
I wanted to add that your instructor does seem good at spotting potential, as the horse really did clean up well. I'm sure she's now on the hunt for another prospective horse for you. Horse shopping can be really, really difficult, especially when you fall in love and it doesn't work out, like in this case. Hang in there. *hugs*

lovey1121
Sep. 30, 2011, 11:45 AM
Very sorry to hear this. You must be disappointed yet please take from this all of the positives, as there are many. You and your trainer have good eyes. You and your trainer did an amazing job with this girl, not only training-wise but management-wise-her show photos attest to her excellent care and training. Bravo to you! Owners got back much more horse than they gave you, and perhaps their eyes were opened by the potential you brought out in her. Her broodmare value is certainly more significant since she's been with you.

You are wise to walk away from her, showing good judgement on your part. It must have been heartbreaking to walk away, but better now than when you were more attached and had already invested more time AND your money.

Kudos to you. I am excited to see your next prospect! You MUST keep us updated!

fjording
Sep. 30, 2011, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure the exact location, but it was on her front right fetlock. The vet was surprised because it was not in a place that you would usually find one. She was actually xraying two fluidy lumps on both her fronts, but found this instead and the two bumps turned out to be nothing.

I'm pretty dissapointed about it, and the owners saw her at the competition and were amazed how different she looked. The daughter who she was originally bought for was there aswell and I think it was a case of her seeing the shiney horse and wanting it back again because now it looks pretty and not hairy and yucky. Ebony had actually scared her due to her very forward nature. I don't think it will work out for the kid because whilst Ebony is more balanced and more consistent than when she first arrived, if they go back to riding her how they were (holding her front end in to slow down and no leg) instead of more leg to match the rein used then she will end up on her forhand, which the vet said will be the worst thing for the type of spur she has. Ebony also has only had maybe 5 weeks of work, so it's not like she's a new educated horse for the kid to take home. So I am a bit dissapointed about that because she will probably be ruined.

I got this email from my Fjords breeder.
She has a nearly 3 year old obese gelding for sale. Out of an imported mare and by a stallion with imported parents.
So very tempted :P

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/katiealfredson/P8160079.jpg

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/katiealfredson/P8160091.jpg

netg
Sep. 30, 2011, 06:49 PM
If you bought the 3 year old (younger and less trained than you said you wanted, I assume) what would you want to do with it?

First thing that jumps out at me is that the hip is far shorter than I would want in a dressage horse. The humerus is, too. Those aren't fjord traits specifically, so if you wanted one I'd look for a better representative of the breed...

That said, I don't know the horse market where you are. It's possible you'll just fall in love with him and buy him, and if that happens likely be very happy with him!

Sorry things didn't work out with the mare. I'm sure in the end it'll somehow work out better for you, though with frustration right now it doesn't feel that way!

fjording
Sep. 30, 2011, 06:59 PM
3 year old would be sent to a dressage trainer to be broken in.
The thing I have learnt with the Fjords is that if you want them for something like dressage they have to be started with that in mind from the very beginning, otherwise it's going to make the already uphill battle even more uphill which is what I have found with my Fjord. Mine was started for driving, which didn't work out and was sold to a pony club home and ended up being put in a twisted wire bit. Bit made him very hard in the mouth and I have spent a very long time with him in a rubber bit and then into a french link baucher which he loves.

There are also around 100 Fjords in Australia, so the opportunity to buy one that isn't a weanling doesn't come up very often!
I'm not expecting to buy a grand prix horse with my budget, but some of the prospective "dressage horses" I have seen going around here in the 15-30k budget have worse conformation than my little fjord! I am looking for something that will go to around 3rd level (approx. Medium here) Not fussed on being competitive at 3rd or over, just getting there would be great!

fjording
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:03 PM
On a more serious note!
It looks like a new pony has possibly been found!
However she is everything I did not want!
A big semi feral chestnut mare with virtually no white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjc7tpiKztE


This mare has come from a property that's known for producing some NICE warmbloods, but the last couple of years have been going through a really nasty divorce, so the youngstock were literally turned loose to run the 100s of acres in a semi wild herd before being bought back in and the nicer ones were picked out and sent to the breakers.
We had a nice 6 year old from there come through my instructors who was turned over very quickly and recently sold for 11k by the trainer who picked it up and it was only a very basic walk trot and some canter undersaddle when it was bought. Unfortunately it has turned out having OCD which is a shame, so xrays again in a vet check for anything I like.

This mare is 3 years old, broken in about 6 months ago, and then has sat in a smaller paddock at my instructors spelling property. She's a bit better with people, though apparently still very shy and timid. She's not going to be coming to my instructors for a couple of weeks (waiting for some horses to be moved) and it will be at least 2-4 weeks of solid work with my instructor before I would feel comfortable getting on her. I'm not 100% on her breeding, though considering the place she's come from and her colour, she is more than likely by their imported Wolkenstein II stallion, Wyndemere and out of a hannoverian mare.

esdressage
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjc7tpiKztE

She's cute, but is she slightly off?

netg
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:21 PM
Are there any horses for sale NOT with your trainer? It seems like you're limited to one horse after another who isn't quite what you want... and life's too short, and money isn't abundant enough for that! I don't know how far away you're willing to look, but I bet you could find something closer to what you want than a 3 year old filly who meets pretty much none of what you want.

fjording
Oct. 5, 2011, 05:32 PM
My instructor has connections that I don't and can find horses that are not advertised or are sitting in a paddock unused like this one is. She also knows what I am capable of and what I am not capabale of. So I do trust her to find something that's suitable, I ment more that chestnut is my least favourite colour, mares have that marey reputation, and lack of white is a bit boring. Not that she's wrong, just that I am supersitious and the combination of chestnut and mare is a bit daunting to me!

AnotherRound
Oct. 5, 2011, 06:42 PM
I think, and I don't know you folks, but from this whole thread, what I think is this:

Your trainer knows what she sees in a horse. She's no slouch.

Your trainer also knows how to train a horse - and how to train you - and how to keep you and the horse performing well together. That's no mean feat.

What I think is that your trainer is coming up with interesting horses to train, and takes the ones with some kind of potential - and seems to bring that out in them. Whether one horse she picks up or another is YOUR horse, who knows, until you ride it for a while.

If you are interested in riding with your trainer, and riding the horses for a while which she comes up with, and following along with the horse's background and new experiences and new training, do it, and you may well come across the horse you are looking for.

Showing us folks (and I'm laughing here, not criticising) on the other side of the world the new raggedy-ass tinkers as they come off the heath is a great experience for us, but you must know how hard it is for us to judge - except for those obvious flaws which may or may not compromise the horse's potential, such as bad pasterns, croup, neck, back - who knows.

But your trainer - and by proxy you - seem to be able to work with these horses and find out what they are all about - I think doing that with previously overlooked stock to see if they have a gem in there is dynamite - let your trainer take a horse on, tell her you are interested to see how he does, ride him if it comes to that, even lease the horses before really making a decision if you can -

My first impression of the horse in the pen was that it had a good head neck and shoulder, and I would certainly follow her and see if her being off a bit is a matter of needing better shoing, some muscling, or minor vet care. For all we know she has an abcess which is temporary.

Anyway, my point is, follow through on the ones you find interesting, show us their before and afters, and you are a tidy, very nice rider, (and young and have time) and will I am sure, find some very nice horses to ride in the next few years. Once may become a great horse you can take to higher levels.

AnotherRound
Oct. 5, 2011, 06:46 PM
Not that she's wrong, just that I am supersitious and the combination of chestnut and mare is a bit daunting to me!

Well, as good a rider as you are, with as good an instructor as you have, I would suspect that a chestnut mare isn't actually "daunting" as much as it might make you suspicious.

There's a reason those red-headed mares have their reputation!! Maybe other colors have the same reputation, but when they are red, you really notice.

You may be someone who wants a gelding. But still try her out. Just keep looking until the right horse says "I'm the one, chicky".

You never know - it may be the chestnut mare!

fjording
Oct. 6, 2011, 08:15 AM
Ha thanks guys I understand the comments about not being able to see much in the video!
Think I got this mare muddled with another one though, she's actually just turned 6! Is by a Falkrich stallion and out of a monopol mare with a dash of tb in the mares damline.
So on paper she's bred to jump well!
My instructor says she is very timid and shy, so hoping when she comes it will be a combination of love and handling/grooming etc from me and the undersaddle stuff from my instructor to get her out of her shell!

AnotherRound
Oct. 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
For the timid and shy part, you can spend time, time, time, with her - walking her around the farm, eating carrots with her whilst she grazes; grooming grooming, grooming, stepping away from her in the cross ties (a few feet) and coming back, finding a repetative call to give her when you first come onto the farm, so she looks for you, and grooming - that's the horse language of connection and acceptance. Being absolute with being #1, do not fear a correction and do not let her walk ahead of you or pull you around (that's her establishing she's #1) and she will begin to look for you and expect you. While eating, hand on her shoulder, talking to her, then leave her alone; tacked up, walk around with her. Free in the indoor ring, work on personal space, and give her one on one sessions training to free longe. Anything that seems hard, come up to her close and take her around doing what you want to ask her for. Even my well trained gelding needed all this when I first got him, to be able to have a foundation of respect for me and desire to work for me to build on. Just ideas, for the timid and shy part.

fjording
Oct. 17, 2011, 04:13 PM
I found another one! XD
This one i found by myself, as soon as I saw her I had to know more! I just saw her picture and fell in love! Saw her video and fell even more in love!

This is a 7 year old 15.2 mare, with some interesting breeding.
She's by an FEI horse by the name of Cairo 869, and out of a mare by the imported (to Aus) Swedish stallion "Du". The mares other line is Moselfisher, a prix st george horse also imported to aus from Germany. So her breeding is completely imported.
She was broken in at 4 and lightly ridden, then used as a brood mare and went in foal to frozen semen first go.
Hasn't been ridden since and is priced at $3500

http://www.dynamikstallions.com/mareforsale.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GDnlAqRbYs&feature=channel_video_title

Opinions please? I really like this one!

alto
Oct. 17, 2011, 04:28 PM
NOW you got something worth the journey! :yes:
She looks a little stiff at times in the canter so I'd want to vet her tho she's likely fine. You should be able to ride her at inspection, just have the owner get on first.

Personally I like the chestnut filly even better but then I'd need to wait at least a year before starting her under saddle.

fjording
Oct. 18, 2011, 05:10 PM
My instructor said no! I liked her though :( oh well

kookicat
Oct. 19, 2011, 04:55 PM
She looks very immature to me.

esdressage
Oct. 19, 2011, 05:18 PM
I didn't love that one either. What happened with the chestnut mare. Did you try her at all?

Carol Ames
Oct. 20, 2011, 12:36 PM
push her back a step and take another one; this stance makes her lok very weak, open behind with sickle hocks.:eek: How do you feel on her?:confused:

Carol Ames
Oct. 20, 2011, 12:47 PM
I could:mad: not get the videos to work:no:k; the other pictures make her hind end look better.:yes:

fjording
Oct. 20, 2011, 04:52 PM
My instructor didn't like the bay mare, she thought she looked like she was going to cause problems aka stiff awkward canter = probably will buck and she said the way she was going around made her think that if you took her into a new environment she'd be spooky. She said she looks like she has a mean streak.
I don't know how, why or what made her say it, but that's what she thought so we aren't considering that one anymore.

This one actually belongs to a friend of mine, she's a cute little thing and my instructor liked her very much. So hopefully I will be able to get over and have a ride of her and then bring her home on trial for a few weeks.

Owner says she has a great walk and great canter but her trot is still a bit so so. But, a great canter and walk is better than a great trot and a horse who can't walk to save it's life!

She's by a stallion called Centaur Gladiator who I believe was the sire of a lot of Show hacks. Her mother is a Northern mare, so she's bred to event and look pretty XD

She's 6 years old and 15.3hh, has had a foal and has had about 15 rides since the owner has just had a baby and couldn't ride her when she was pregnant.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294773_10150861781005442_568385441_21064103_126896 4981_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296603_10150861781530442_568385441_21064117_133707 5973_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/295944_10150861780665442_568385441_21064096_169129 7406_n.jpg

fjording
Nov. 7, 2011, 04:36 PM
The brown mare is coming to my place on Saturday :D
She's on a months trial and if I get along with her I will buy her!

NOMIOMI1
Nov. 7, 2011, 05:17 PM
I like the last mare you posted. I have a soft spot for broodies brought back to work... IMO life experience is a bonus! :)

fjording
Nov. 11, 2011, 10:12 PM
.