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View Full Version : SI or HI...or something else???



EasyStreet
Aug. 11, 2011, 12:28 PM
My horse REALLY falls in through his shoulder and counter bends through the corners tracking left!! I have been trying to straighten him with SF and SI but I really have trouble getting flextion to the inside and I have started to think that I should be using haunches in to straighten him. He is still very unfit so should I not even be trying to correct it yet and just wourk on building his back and ryhthm and as he gets more fit start addressing this or is there a better excersise to use at his level of fitness??? Tahnks to all how reply!;)

horsefaerie
Aug. 11, 2011, 12:32 PM
Are you sure you are loading correctly for these turns?

All of us and our horses are unilateral.

SI is the way to go. How old is this horse? How much training?

If you are good with a whip you can use it gently to tap him off that shoulder. Ride him well forward and just tap and lift the rein to balance him.

This is common with young green or stiff horses.

Petstorejunkie
Aug. 11, 2011, 01:01 PM
My horse REALLY falls in through his shoulder and counter bends through the corners tracking left!! I have been trying to straighten him with SF and SI but I really have trouble getting flexion to the inside and I have started to think that I should be using haunches in to straighten him. He is still very unfit so should I not even be trying to correct it yet and just work on building his back and rhythm and as he gets more fit start addressing this or is there a better exercises to use at his level of fitness??? Thanks to all who reply!;)
I just worked on this in a short course that ended yesterday.
1. until the problem is resolved, the only direction you can use your left hand to the left is like raising it to drink from a cup.
2. use your left leg to encourage bend, tap the offending shoulder with a whip.
3. i'm willing to bet if your horse is slamming hard on to the inside shoulder (enough to start a post about it) the root could be in the right hind. encourage more activity out of the outside (right) hind. While haunches in does activate the outside hind, you do run the risk of slamming the horse more on the forehand if not correctly set up.
4. make sure you aren't what's causing it. pay attention to your connection in your right rein and make sure you aren't trying to establish bend with your left hand.

Valentina_32926
Aug. 11, 2011, 01:06 PM
My older mare doesn't like to bend on some days, so I find at times I need to use the inside leg spur at the girth with an opening inside rein. Make certain your inside hip is also engaged to support your inside leg to get that bend.

And of course don't forget the outside rein a little away from the neck so he can't pop that shoulder. :yes:

Rhiannonjk
Aug. 12, 2011, 09:07 AM
Turn on the Forehand is really good for activating the shoulders evenly. Walk straight toward the wall of the arena, TOF to get the haunches to the wall, then walk forward. Rinse and repeat.

shakeytails
Aug. 12, 2011, 12:16 PM
Nothing useful to add, but since I work in psych, all I could think about was suidicial ideation(SI) or homicidal ideation (HI)!:eek::eek:

ace**
Aug. 12, 2011, 12:44 PM
Does he counterflex on circles too? Spiraling in and out on a 20m circle really helps me with the inside leg to outside rein connection, and should help with the bend in his body that you need to ride the corners.

Carol Ames
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:00 PM
How is your horse to girth up?


Have a vet chiro check him:yes: ; also, around the poll which, is almost always tight in dressage horses, especially, A soft laser is helpful in such situations Palpate:eek: the shoulder and see how your horse responds:eek: a TTTEAM prac. can help you with a lot of :cool:this!;)

naturalequus
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:00 PM
Turn on the Forehand is really good for activating the shoulders evenly. Walk straight toward the wall of the arena, TOF to get the haunches to the wall, then walk forward. Rinse and repeat.

Doing this at the trot works wonders! We started with TOF at the halt, then 'squared' our corners using this exercise in the trot. Each corner we rode to the wall, then I pushed his haunches over to make the corner. This, combined with reminding myself to pull my shoulders back, to sit evenly, and maintaining an even rein length, is what fixed this issue in my guy. Worked better for us than targeting the shoulder or hind with my dressage whip.

Carol Ames
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:06 PM
bend, counter bend; change rein through the counter bend:yes:; ride a serpentine 3 loops, with NO change of bend warn everyone in the arena to watch out for you:lol:; the learning curve for this exercise can be steep:eek: to start with

merrygoround
Aug. 12, 2011, 01:12 PM
First, get him fit, supporting his crookedness as well as you can until he is fitter.

Lateral work, as in leg yield, for a reason isn't asked for til First Level. S/I and H/I not til til Second. Circles correctly ridden, with a strong inside leg on your left side, while forcing yourself to maintain the outside contact on the right,while coaxing him to flex left without pulling, will help. Riding serpentines, knowing that when you switch to the left rein you will need to be extra strong with the left leg, and doing an extra circle on that rein, are all basic exercises.

There is no quick fix.

Kaluna
Aug. 12, 2011, 09:09 PM
First, get him fit, supporting his crookedness as well as you can until he is fitter.

Lateral work, as in leg yield, for a reason isn't asked for til First Level. S/I and H/I not til til Second. Circles correctly ridden, with a strong inside leg on your left side, while forcing yourself to maintain the outside contact on the right,while coaxing him to flex left without pulling, will help. Riding serpentines, knowing that when you switch to the left rein you will need to be extra strong with the left leg, and doing an extra circle on that rein, are all basic exercises.

There is no quick fix.

Couldn't agree more. You say your horse is very unfit - then he's not strong enough to pull off a correct shoulder-in. How unfit is he? WHat level is he actually trained to? Why are you wanting to do second level stuff with an unfit horse to strengthen him? Do basic stuff and give him the time to build strength.

Definitely not haunches in. If anything, leg yield. If he's running through the shoulders with leg yield then he's not ready for second level stuff and not even first level stuff. Stick with shoulder-FORE. Stick with training and first level stuff, like shallow counter-canter serpentines, trot half-15M circle to changing the bend and doing half 15m circle in the other direction. Turn on the forehand at the walk. Get your horse fit before you ask him to do things that only a fit and balance horse can do. You'll both be a whole lot happier.

Carol Ames
Aug. 13, 2011, 11:48 AM
Do you realize how taxing, counter canter serpentines are:confused:?; stick with counter bend serpentines @ trot :yes:until you've had him checked by an appropriate vet, holistic/ chiro, not:no:, just Xraying the hocks / stifles






Couldn't agree more. You say your horse is very unfit - then he's not strong enough to pull off a correct shoulder-in. How unfit is he? WHat level is he actually trained to? Why are you wanting to do second level stuff with an unfit horse to strengthen him? Do basic stuff and give him the time to build strength.

Definitely not haunches in. If anything, leg yield. If he's running through the shoulders with leg yield then he's not ready for second level stuff and not even first level stuff. Stick with shoulder-FORE. Stick with training and first level stuff, like shallow counter-canter serpentines, trot half-15M circle to changing the bend and doing half 15m circle in the other direction. Turn on the forehand at the walk. Get your horse fit before you ask him to do things that only a fit and balance horse can do. You'll both be a whole lot happier.

EasyStreet
Aug. 13, 2011, 02:14 PM
Sorry for the time lapse in my reply..I haven't been online in a few days... First I want to thank you all for your thoughtful replys. My horse is 18 yrs old and a retired hunter and I should also mention that he is quite turned in on the front which I forgot to mention in my origonal post but could have alot to do with the falling in. I just got him a month ago and have only ridden a few times because of triple digit heat and so much work to do on the new farm..but he was retired for the last few years save a few trailrides...a tad over weight but dropping a few lbs now and not much topline. I am really feeling that I should just hack him around till he fits up a bit..but the time I did ride him in the "arena" I noticed this falling in/counter bend and found it difficult to straighten him. It is not as bad on a 20m circle but is still an issue. I just wasn't sure if I should start right off trying to straighten him or start at the bottom of the training scale and as he fits up,then take on more direct approach to the issue....but until then just sorta wink;) at his imperfections!! I should also say that I was only refering to doing SI and HI at the walk more in an effort to stretch and strenghten his stiff side. He is such a sweet boy and I want to to the very best by him! Thank you all for your contributions of expertice!! http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.152148758159165.22102.100000921250842&type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=226839260690114&set=a.152148758159165.22102.100000921250842&type=1&theater

Petstorejunkie
Aug. 14, 2011, 09:42 AM
Awwe what a cutie pie!
I took the liberty of browsing your album because visuals of your tendencies in the saddle can sometimes help make for better riding suggestions ;)
Sit to the front of your saddle, legs to the back, and stretch the leg down to use it. I've found that vinyasa yoga and balimo floor exercises have really helped me TONS in accomplishing the same goals.

Kaluna
Aug. 14, 2011, 10:56 PM
Do you realize how taxing, counter canter serpentines are:confused:?;

Ummm, yeah I do. :rolleyes:

EasyStreet
Aug. 16, 2011, 05:02 PM
Thank you all again for your help and suggestions. My boy is getting more fit and his diet has helped him loose the extra weight that was causing him to struggle too. That alone has helped him straighten and be a bit more balanced.:) http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=2171548220024&set=t.100000921250842&type=1&theater Here is his latest undersadle pics.