PDA

View Full Version : Ah, Nina.. I envy your life



mustangsal85
Aug. 3, 2011, 08:33 AM
Looks like she has her Olympic mount. (http://eventingnation.com/home/2011/08/wednesday-morning-news-from-horse-quencher-2.html)

So jealous.. she now has what? 5? 6? upper level mounts in her care? The opportunities she has been presented with are just astounding. I hope she does well with the privileges she is given and I look forward to seeing how she does with Butts Leon.

NRB
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:05 AM
awesomeness, I think it's pretty neat (and refreshing) to see a hard working young rider have such a deep bench.

fordtraktor
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:07 AM
well, I hope she got some sort of discount due to the fact that is the ugliest horse name I have ever heard.

The pressure must be pretty high to perform as well -- I would never know but I imagine that she has her hard days just like the rest of us, except everyone notices when she makes mistakes. Not sure I'd want that for myself.

Best of luck to Nina and her new mount.

Dawnd
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:52 AM
Count me in with the "I'm so jealous" group.

I should follow along behind her in hopes that she leaves her wallet unattended.

;)

GingerJumper
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:52 AM
Best of luck to her and her new mount, despite his horrible name, lol.

vineyridge
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:12 AM
It's hard to believe the German Olympic committee let him go after what they did to save Sam for their Team. He is one of the absolute premier event horses in the world, but perhaps his age made him available. Or perhaps the Germans decided that Dibowski's Fantasia FRH who won Pau last year is his mount for next years Olympics.

The Butts in his name is for his breeder, Herr Friedrich (sp) Butt, who died a couple of years ago. He bred TBs to Hanoverian branded mares for generations, and Leon is something like 31/32 TB. Herr Butt was one of the truly great event horse breeders, and Ingrid Klimke has one of his currently as her top mount--Butts Abraxxis.

Since Euroridings probably won't be sponsoring Ms. Ligon, the horse will probably compete as Butts Leon.

CiegoStar
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:22 AM
The horse is 18 years old. Per the Chronicle story, he was purchased to give Nina another schoolmaster to practice on, so they can keep the miles down on her Olympic mount (Fernhill Fearless). Sounds like a good situation for the horse. If only all ULRs could find riders with lots of cash to buy their near-retirement horses to be used as spares!

DefyingGravityEventing
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:08 AM
i've tried to convince her mom to adopt me :) I told her I come with a cute pony... it hasn't worked yet, but I'm not giving up ;)

JER
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:16 AM
Butts Leon is a 1997. That makes him 14.

I think this is a great move for Nina. I hope she learns a lot from him.

PonyGal08
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:17 AM
From what I've heard of Nina she is a consummate horseman. This is probably the best situation for a 14 year old veteran.


Envy is the art of counting the other fellow's blessings instead of your own. ~Harold Coffin

mustangsal85
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:21 AM
If I were in her situation I would probably have done the same thing. There is nothing like an experienced horse to really get you the mileage that you need at that level. Not that she isn't already getting that mileage but it will make her that much more confident when she brings a horse to its first Advanced/4* event. I think it's smart. I am extremely envious of her but from what I have gathered about her she seems like a well educated equestrienne. Also I love her coach, Kim Severson so that puts me even further in her camp of supporters. I also hope she can have some success with Paddy, perhaps at the 3* level. I saw he pulled 4 rails last weekend in stadium but I believe they still finished a respectable 5th or 6th. He will also be a good horse for her to gain mileage on, especially in the XC realm. That horse is a friggin' XC machine.

mustangsal85
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:24 AM
Also - my bad. I guess I didn't realize that Fernhill Fearless was her Olympic mount as it stands now assuming she gets the nod.

fooler
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:27 AM
I once envied someone who had all I thought I wanted. When I was included in the inner workings and communications I became less envious and realized all that is required of one who "has those opportunities".

The "special one" carries a very heavy load and while there are many horse related opportunities, non-horse activities are normally dropped. Which helps to explain why there are so many at the lower levels and only a few at the very top.

FairWeather
Aug. 3, 2011, 12:38 PM
I can't imagine the pressure of having all of these lovely horses to ride with the world watching. Much luck to her--she is a very nice girl from all I've seen.

Karosel
Aug. 3, 2011, 12:59 PM
I once envied someone who had all I thought I wanted. When I was included in the inner workings and communications I became less envious and realized all that is required of one who "has those opportunities".

The "special one" carries a very heavy load and while there are many horse related opportunities, non-horse activities are normally dropped. Which helps to explain why there are so many at the lower levels and only a few at the very top.

oh wah! ;)

I'm sure there are lots of people willing to give up plenty to be in Nina's position. :yes:

Best of luck to Nina though!

vineyridge
Aug. 3, 2011, 01:05 PM
She has so many choices; one or more of her super mounts will probably be sound for London, and she'll probably ride the soundest at the time. Now if she could just get Paddy to SJ . . .


Also - my bad. I guess I didn't realize that Fernhill Fearless was her Olympic mount as it stands now assuming she gets the nod.

SueCoo2
Aug. 3, 2011, 02:01 PM
I love that Limp BizKitsong,

"...Life is overwhelming. Heavy is the head that wears the crown id love to be the one to disappoint you when I don't fall down...."

Go Nina! :yes:

englishcowgirl
Aug. 3, 2011, 02:24 PM
Good for her and the horse! Stories like this give me encouragement to keep work for my goals (although they are not so grand). I think Nina is a very good role model and I am excited to see where her career goes in the future!

ZiggyStardust
Aug. 3, 2011, 03:42 PM
Oh barf. Show me someone who has succeeded despite the hand they've been dealt, not because of it, and I'll be impressed.

GingerJumper
Aug. 3, 2011, 03:49 PM
This is going to get ugly fast, methinks... Popcorn anyone? :winkgrin:

Carried Away
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:05 PM
haha, where's Yance??

Personally, I think it's great that her family can afford to give her these opportunities to become a better rider. I wonder what they will do with the horses once she goes away to school?

Classic Melody
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:15 PM
Hopefully they give the horses to Kim at that point!

Nina's a lovely rider and hopefully she does well and thrives. For what it's worth, another young rider who bought a WEG horse (Cayla Kitayama) appears to have stopped competing, at least in eventing, after completing Rolex on that horse. Ah well. There are worst fates, both for horses and young people figuring out what to do with their lives.

Through a family connection I have known some of the high-profile junior riders in the equitation world - while they all have major advantages, it isn't always peaches and cream behind the scenes. And it's an incredibly high pressure environment for a teenager to handle.

atheventer85
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:24 PM
I don't know... I've had that one veteran horse to run me around some big tracks, but 4 advanced horses at 18? I realize she's trying to make the Olympics, but that seems a like overkill to me. Obviously she's a fair rider, but there's a certain point, when money can't buy talent.....

Danny1234
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:35 PM
Good for her and the horse! Stories like this give me encouragement to keep work for my goals (although they are not so grand). I think Nina is a very good role model and I am excited to see where her career goes in the future!

LOL ...But then again, for those who come from circumstances similar to those of Ms Ligon, I guess she actually might be an inspiration - wot do *I* know. :D And actually, that would indeed be a good thing for eventing, cuz like I said before, most riders need someone to sell their horses to.
So good luck to her! :)

enjoytheride
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:40 PM
Suppose if she were a homeless crackwhore who pulled herself up by the bootstraps on her arabian/percheron/TWH and made it to the Olympics people would taste fewer sour grapes about it?

Blugal
Aug. 3, 2011, 04:59 PM
Through a family connection I have known some of the high-profile junior riders in the equitation world - while they all have major advantages, it isn't always peaches and cream behind the scenes. And it's an incredibly high pressure environment for a teenager to handle.

I know some eventers in similar circumstances. I would not trade my life for theirs - never.

Danny1234
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:01 PM
Suppose if she were a homeless crackwhore who pulled herself up by the bootstraps on her arabian/percheron/TWH and made it to the Olympics people would taste fewer sour grapes about it?

Excaxtly.

SevenDogs
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:01 PM
Time spent envying another person's life, is time missed living your own.

I also try to remember how many millions of people envy me right now, simply because I have enough food on my table and clean water supply.

Perspective is a great thing.

Xctrygirl
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:13 PM
I have been close to two different people who strove to make the Olympic team. One did, and one didn't.

I wouldn't trade my eventing life for theirs. I saw what is enjoyable for me and a gift, become work and grueling torture as they both kept trying to please dozens of people.

I congratulate those who strive for and achieve their dreams. I'm happy to watch on tv thanks.

Good Luck to Nina!!

~Emily

Danny1234
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:17 PM
Time spent envying another person's life, is time missed living your own. .

Nah, envy is just human nature, it's malicious glee that's devilish.

SevenDogs
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:23 PM
Nah, envy is just human nature, it's malicious glee that's devilish.

I never said it wasn't human nature... for it most certainly is something that we all feel at some point. It is still a waste of time and energy that could be more productive directed someplace else.

Duckz
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:23 PM
Suppose if she were a homeless crackwhore who pulled herself up by the bootstraps on her arabian/percheron/TWH and made it to the Olympics people would taste fewer sour grapes about it?

Nah, then they'd just wait for the relapse ;)

I don't know Nina from Adam, but it sounds like she's a lovely, accomplished young rider. Why hate? :confused: I'd buy myself a whole barn full of 4* eventers, grand prix jumpers, and 4' working hunters if I had the money.

SevenDogs
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:25 PM
I'd buy myself a whole barn full of 4* eventers, grand prix jumpers, and 4' working hunters if I had the money.

... and so would I and everyone else... particularly those that act offended by it.

mustangsal85
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:36 PM
... and so would I and everyone else... particularly those that act offended by it.

Precisely! Anyone who takes the other side of this argument would happily snatch up the luxuries and "opportunities" if they were to suddenly find themselves in a world of wealth.

While I've always been jealous of those who have had their horses more or less handed to them by rich parents, I also have a respect for it. If you have the means, why not? She doesn't sound like she sits around and watches everyone else do her work while expecting to get around a 4* course in one piece. If she is fortunate enough to have supportive/wealthy parents - who wouldn't take advantage in the same shoes?! Whether or not these people/YRs DESERVE what they are given is a whole other argument but life is anything but fair, yes?

If I am in a position to do something like this for my kids - I would do it. I would make them aware of the work ethic I would expect in return, but I would do it. Like I said, if you have the means, then why not?

GingerJumper
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:38 PM
Nah, then they'd just wait for the relapse ;)

Psh, you think they'd wait for a relapse? It'd be so much faster to just start rumors about one. Think of all the stuff there could be about that... "Was Reacovérd K. Rackhor high when she won the Gold?" "Was Dobbin high, too?" and then... "Will my horse crack his back like Dobbin if I put him on crack like Dobbin? HELP PLZ NEED ADVICE!!!!!!!!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Duckz
Aug. 3, 2011, 05:47 PM
Reacovérd K. Rackhor

I die. Actually, my keyboard dies. From the ramen I snorted on it.

lcw579
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:07 PM
Whether or not these people/YRs DESERVE what they are given is a whole other argument but life is anything but fair, yes?



Exactly. Because really - do any of our kids DESERVE a horse no matter what it cost? To plenty of people even an econonag is an unimaginable luxury.

SevenDogs et al are spot on we'd all be filling our barns with topnotch horses for ourselves and our kids if we could.

retreadeventer
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:18 PM
I do know Nina and her mother. A harder working and nicer family one could not ever run across in this sport. She is a terrific rider and any country would be glad to have her available for a team, I am only truly sorry she's not using the dual citizenship to help the Americans!

I invite anyone to watch Nina ride, meet her mother and father, talk with them. Better yet, be in the warm up on cross country day when Nina's best horse, Fernhill Fearless, threw a shoe, and I called, and called, and CALLED for the farrier to come up from the barns, as he was at lunch someplace and didn't answer his phone. They waited patiently as the time ticked down to her start time and finally the farrier arrived; they were cool, kind, and just great to work with, and we threw her in the tack and over two warmup jumps and in the start box in about 3 minutes -- and she had a clear ride. You cannot BUY that kind of personality and outlook. She's been all over the world eventing and with her horses -- and in some really tough areas, among them Germany extensively, and Europe, the far east for the Asian Games, now Poland, etc. Those of you who have traveled with horses know how hard that is.

They are CLASS ACT from top to bottom, period.

JER
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:25 PM
I'd buy myself a whole barn full of 4* eventers, grand prix jumpers, and 4' working hunters if I had the money.


... and so would I and everyone else...

Not me. I like raising young horses and sending them to good riders to compete.

For me, riding is about the day-to-day struggles, the planning, the little breakthroughs and light-bulb moments. A packer would bore me silly.

But that's the point, to find what you like to do and take horses and eventing on your own terms.

:)

Trak_Eventer
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:37 PM
I wonder what the plan is for all these horses when she goes off to Stanford after London? Seems crazy to me to buy all these fancy, expensive horse when you are about to go off to school. One horse is hard enough to handle while at college.

I just find it strange to have that many made horses. I totally respect having a schoolmaster to learn on, but a whole string of schoolmasters...?

Would be great if they bought Kim a horse too after all she is doing for Nina!

KateKat
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:42 PM
I read the COTH article and she sounds like a very gracious, down to earth teenager who works hard. After all, early acceptance to Stanford? That is no easy feat.

And I have to say, if I had been that teenager with all the opportunities, I'm not sure I would be as grounded as she is. I imagine that I would have actually been quite the brat! ;) So, thank goodness, lol.

yellowbritches
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:50 PM
Meh. I've watched Nina ride plenty and while I am sure she's a great person, she's not a spectacularly gifted rider...just a kid who's got good help and LOTS of great horses to ride...pretty much like a lot of YRs out there. The biggest difference is she's got dual citizenship with a country that does not have any equestrians to really speak of, making it that much easier to go to the Olympics. I could be wrong, but I doubt she'd be in contention for the US, UK, or any other top country's team, if given that option. She's good enough to do ok on nice horses here at home...she does quite well in Poland (how well would she have done at Blenheim, etc?). Am I missing something? I know she's placed well at home in some good competition...maybe won a few, but there are quite a few riders that can do that but aren't serious Team candidates.

I may come off snarky or bitchy, but I do find it funny that people are jumping up and down excited that a young girl has yet ANOTHER top class horse. Would I turn it down? Nope, probably wouldn't, but I don't agree that she is this super duper world class rider. She's a decent enough rider (who still makes the occasional pretty basic mistakes...sometimes at some pretty substantial fences) with a bank account that allows her to sit on world class horses and get her very good results. She might get world class, but I don't think she is right now. And I have no doubt she works her butt off (because no matter how nice the horse is you are sitting on, there's no way you can be lazy and still expect to survive an UL xc course)...I just don't see the need to sing her praises.

Funny...I think this a lot about riders and trainers that get applauded here.

atheventer85
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:58 PM
yellowbritches- you are my hero. You hit the nail on the head in every way, shape, and form.

Trak_Eventer
Aug. 3, 2011, 06:59 PM
I wish there was a standing ovation button for you yellowbritches! You hit it on the nail!

GingerJumper
Aug. 3, 2011, 07:27 PM
I die. Actually, my keyboard dies. From the ramen I snorted on it.

RIP Duckz keyboard. :cry:
If he comes back to haunt you, you can blame it on me... Although, it'd be much easier to just blame it on Reacovérd, plus it'd get some more rumors out and about... two birds with one ghost story. :lol:

Eventingjunkie
Aug. 3, 2011, 07:42 PM
We are all entitled to our opinions...and I would have to disagree with yellowbritches. I think Nina is a spectacularly gifted rider. Her dressage is superb and right now she is getting mileage in the jumping arena. I don't know too many riders who can buy an advanced horse and not just be competitive, but in the upper placings so shortly after getting them. I remember one of Boyd's blogs stating that it takes about two years to really get to know a horse. Nina has certainly improved the dressage scores of all the horses she rides and I expect within a couple competitions will also be bringing in scores in the 20's with Paddy.

flutie1
Aug. 3, 2011, 08:41 PM
Mean, jealous people suck. Go Nina!

Carol Ames
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:06 PM
well SAID! I'm SURE SHE WILL MAKE THE MOST OF IT!:yes:







I read the COTH article and she sounds like a very gracious, down to earth teenager who works hard. After all, early acceptance to Stanford? That is no easy feat.

And I have to say, if I had been that teenager with all the opportunities, I'm not sure I would be as grounded as she is. I imagine that I would have actually been quite the brat! ;) So, thank goodness, lol.

Backstage
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:12 PM
Meh. I've watched Nina ride plenty and while I am sure she's a great person, she's not a spectacularly gifted rider...just a kid who's got good help and LOTS of great horses to ride...pretty much like a lot of YRs out there. The biggest difference is she's got dual citizenship with a country that does not have any equestrians to really speak of, making it that much easier to go to the Olympics. I could be wrong, but I doubt she'd be in contention for the US, UK, or any other top country's team, if given that option. She's good enough to do ok on nice horses here at home...she does quite well in Poland (how well would she have done at Blenheim, etc?). Am I missing something? I know she's placed well at home in some good competition...maybe won a few, but there are quite a few riders that can do that but aren't serious Team candidates.

I may come off snarky or bitchy, but I do find it funny that people are jumping up and down excited that a young girl has yet ANOTHER top class horse. Would I turn it down? Nope, probably wouldn't, but I don't agree that she is this super duper world class rider. She's a decent enough rider (who still makes the occasional pretty basic mistakes...sometimes at some pretty substantial fences) with a bank account that allows her to sit on world class horses and get her very good results. She might get world class, but I don't think she is right now. And I have no doubt she works her butt off (because no matter how nice the horse is you are sitting on, there's no way you can be lazy and still expect to survive an UL xc course)...I just don't see the need to sing her praises.

Funny...I think this a lot about riders and trainers that get applauded here.

I don't want to say that it comes off as bitchy or snarky, but I think your comments say a bit more about you than they do about Nina. No one on this thread has claimed that Nina is some sort of phenomenal rider who is taking the event world by storm. The've simply said some nice things - she is hard working, nice, a lovely rider who has been given some fabulous opportunities.

Perhaps its just me, but I don't see the point in pointing out the obvious - that representing Thailand might be a bit less competitive than representing the US or the UK. She still has to qualify and get around the course. I also don't see the value in making a point of diminishing her accomplishments by referring to her as a "decent enough rider". Many of us are "decent enough riders" - but we aren't successfully completing FEI events on multiple horses. And I truly don't care if they are packers - she still needs to get the job done. I can guarantee you that Paddy himself would not make it around a CCI or CIC track with me in the irons.


For me, riding is about the day-to-day struggles, the planning, the little breakthroughs and light-bulb moments. A packer would bore me silly.

But that's the point, to find what you like to do and take horses and eventing on your own terms.

Jer, that is certainly the nice thing about horses. Though, I suppose I'll never understand the attitude that packers are boring, don't present any struggles, breakthroughs or light-bulb moments. Though, I'll admit the lightbulb moments tend to be on the rider side when dealing with packers. That said, the quirkiest rides that have taught me the most about being a good rider have been "packers". Sure, I like riding greenies, but learning from a "packer" is far from easy.

llevent
Aug. 3, 2011, 09:38 PM
i'm going to have to agree with yellowbritches, for the most part.. i have never seen nina ride, but i will say this:

While i think it is great to be able to by a school master to show you the ropes, why buy sooo many? i mean, isn't doing so blatantly "buying your way to the top"??? why not have one or two top horses (and some younger ones), and focus on getting them there, instead of being like "ok, well if one shits the bed, i have four back-ups."

nina is so young, and from what i hear, a good rider. she will have many more olympics in her future. why buy all the top event horses in the world to get there next year?

i know no one has a problem with her dream of being in the olympics, i just think the seemingly exorbitant way her family is going about it is rubbing people the wrong way.

that said, best of luck to nina and her family on the road they have chosen.

retreadeventer
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:05 PM
I think we should sing the praises of anyone who brings a positive light to eventing, is a lovely ambassador no matter where she and her horses go in the world, no matter what the number given in the collective scorebox under "rider".
Buying horses supports the sport in a lot of ways. I know I LOVE to sell horses and make a profit! Nothing wrong with that, is there?

eks
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:20 PM
Time spent envying another person's life, is time missed living your own.

I also try to remember how many millions of people envy me right now, simply because I have enough food on my table and clean water supply.

Perspective is a great thing.



Exactly....I wish Nina all the best at the Olympics and in her life after the games.

CiegoStar
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:24 PM
I think we should sing the praises of anyone who brings a positive light to eventing, is a lovely ambassador no matter where she and her horses go in the world, no matter what the number given in the collective scorebox under "rider".
Buying horses supports the sport in a lot of ways. I know I LOVE to sell horses and make a profit! Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Agree with all of the above.

Also, if you're is going to pass judgment and spend time b*tching about people with too much money in this sport, you need to find a new sport. This is a reality of the horse world. You're wasting your energy.

Snapdragon
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:42 PM
Based on the article and from what others have written here, she seems like a wonderful, hard-working young woman, and I do wish her the best.

I think the problem lies, for those who have said it doesn't seem so great, is that this way of going about eventing doesn't match the ethos of the sport--not so much that it's sour grapes--and I think that's pretty accurate. However, the times they are achangin'. It does strike me as more the H/J model.

Gry2Yng
Aug. 3, 2011, 10:48 PM
i'm going to have to agree with yellowbritches, for the most part.. i have never seen nina ride, but i will say this:

While i think it is great to be able to by a school master to show you the ropes, why buy sooo many? i mean, isn't doing so blatantly "buying your way to the top"??? why not have one or two top horses (and some younger ones), and focus on getting them there, instead of being like "ok, well if one shits the bed, i have four back-ups."

nina is so young, and from what i hear, a good rider. she will have many more olympics in her future. why buy all the top event horses in the world to get there next year?
Why not!?!? She wants to. She can afford to because her family supports her. BEST OF LUCK! God knows in this sport you need a string and tomorrow is not guaranteed

eponacowgirl
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:03 PM
You know, having read the article (http://www.chronofhorse.com/nina-ligon?page=3), honestly, more power to her for buying fabulous horses to go to the top of the sport. If she were out to DO THIS FOR A LIVING, I would probably join the snarky side and say she needs to learn to ride a tough ride and not buy her way to the top, but since this is her hobby and her goal was to ride for the Olympics (and for a smaller country, right? I don't think Thailand has an huge eventing community, but please, correct me if I'm wrong...) and she has the money to do it?

Go for it, girl. Live your dream, give your nice horses a nice retirement or pass them along to needy up-and-comers and then go get your education and more power to you. Wish I could have what she has, but I don't feel one iota of spite for her.

Beam Me Up
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:12 PM
In the abstract, one thing that I really like about riding/eventing is that it is more about mileage, experience, dedication, than it is about being naturally "gifted." Of course, money can facilitate that experience-building, as it is in this case, but unlike other sports like gymnastics or running, which 99% of people have no chance a being at the top of, regardless of what they put in, I think a lot of people have the potential to be very good riders if they make it their lives' work. I'm sure we can all think of a few top US riders who went through a lot of years and horses to gain the skill that they did.

Of course I'm jealous of all the great experience she is getting, but only because I'd do exactly the same if I had the means, just probably less successfully. It will pay off for her.

FWIW "bored silly" is probably the last thing I'd be on a 4-star course, regardless of how experienced the horse, but that's another great thing about eventing--we can all set our own goals, and focus on the aspects of horses/eventing that interest us most. We need people who want to focus on breeding, breaking, training, coaching, etc.

JER
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:37 PM
I think the problem lies, for those who have said it doesn't seem so great, is that this way of going about eventing doesn't match the ethos of the sport--not so much that it's sour grapes--and I think that's pretty accurate. However, the times they are achangin'.

History might not agree.

Horses have always been bought for others to ride, especially in the run-up to the Olympics.

JER
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:38 PM
Jer, that is certainly the nice thing about horses. Though, I suppose I'll never understand the attitude that packers are boring, don't present any struggles, breakthroughs or light-bulb moments. Though, I'll admit the lightbulb moments tend to be on the rider side when dealing with packers. That said, the quirkiest rides that have taught me the most about being a good rider have been "packers". Sure, I like riding greenies, but learning from a "packer" is far from easy.

You missed my point. :)

I didn't say I couldn't learn by riding a packer. I said it wasn't what I liked to do. I've been around long enough and I've always paid my own way, so I think I can make decisions about the life I want to have with horses.

My goal is for my horses to compete at the ULs. I have no desire to do so.

It would probably be cheaper to buy a top-class schoolmaster than to start with a mare and a few straws of frozen semen but it's just not what I enjoy. And horses are supposed to be fun, right?

:)

luckofthedraw
Aug. 3, 2011, 11:58 PM
Nina seems like a very nice young lady and a tactful/pretty rider to boot. I have been around her at several shows and she is the type of rider who has been blessed with regular great instruction from day 1. This makes a HUGE difference in someone's success/non-success in this sport.

We all know she is extremely well mounted, and this as we all know has a huge influence on press, ribbons, opportunities etc. While you do have to be an excellent rider with perfect instincts and timing to get horses around UL courses, the kind of pony your sitting on DOES have a lot to do with it.

Parents make a huge difference. I was/am blessed that my parents supported me the best they could for my eventing adventures when I was a YR. I got some really cool opportunities. Nothing in the same universe as Nina's, but hey, I had fun and learned alot about riding and myself. She's doing this to go to the olympics...I mean what horse kid's dream isn't to go to the olympics?! However, I bet her parents have an end in sight to the "horse stuff" with her going away to school after London.

She's getting some great opportunities and seems to be making the most of it. I give her kudos. Heck...she's probably become an olympic medalist/neurosurgeon or something along those lines...haha. While it's human nature to be jealous of something we don't have, all we can do is sit back and watch from the sidelines. I wish her well and hope she finds what she's looking for.

linquest
Aug. 4, 2011, 01:51 AM
To me, it makes sense that her parents are throwing in the resources now to help her get to the Olympics. Nina has made clear that this is a hobby for her--albeit a passionate and time-consuming one--and not a future career path. Why not try to participate in the most recognized competition in the world while she has the fewest outside concerns/sacrifices to risk such as college, a career, or children? So no...unlike the vast majority of Olympic eventers that are professional riders/trainers or the unicorns like Reiner Klimke that can manage a full-time profession on top of the highest level of a sport, she may not have multiple opportunities to go to the Olympics left once her parents decide to stop bankrolling this venture. I can also understand why her parents are pushing for her to get this under her belt before she moves on to the workplace or grad school--having "Olympic athlete" on your resume helps immensely no matter if your current field is related to the sport or not.

I think there's also some logic to going for the Olympics now rather than later while it's still an emerging sport in Thailand. As the sport develops, there will likely be more professionals, or aspiring ones, for whom the Olympics would really help as a credential in their equestrian career. Right now, Nina's not "stealing a spot" from someone that might benefit more from competing in the Olympics. That might not always be the case in Thailand.

Candle
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:10 AM
From the article: "As a worried mother, Pan said it was the safer option for one member of the team not to be green."

This is the perfect statement right here. It's so true, and it's what I tell people all the time. I see it on these boards all the time. Why are we contradicting ourselves now?

enjoytheride
Aug. 4, 2011, 06:30 AM
What is so wrong about being an average rider who has the money to buy good safe horses so they can worry more about themselves then their horse?

If a rider needs time in the saddle to become better then having several horses is a good thing for the horses. As someone who is "average" we need to jump as many fences as possible to get things right which would put lots of wear and tear on our horse. Why not have a few horses so they can share the load and stay sounder?

gooddirt
Aug. 4, 2011, 07:27 AM
Nina is not your "average" rider.

retreadeventer
Aug. 4, 2011, 08:17 AM
No she is not, she's an excellent rider, and I beg to differ about "packers". I know NO three-star/four-star horses that are "packers". You can't even freakin' handle them on the ground if you don't know what you are doing and have a lot of horsemanship. Let alone ride them and school them for upper level competition.

Because many do not see these in person, up close -- our upper level people make all this look easy if all you really see is Youtube and EN clips. I really wish many with an opinion about this stratosphere of horsemanship could be a bit closer to the reality of life at that level. It is not as easy as one would believe reading a thread like this. Good grief.

Give me a three-year-old fit racehorse colt ANY DAY over one of THOSE.

flutie1
Aug. 4, 2011, 08:20 AM
Yes, Nina represents Thailand. But if I understand correctly, there is only one slot available for Asia at the 2012 Olympics. She will have to compete with some relatively heavy hitters for that spot. (Remember, Japan fielded a WEG team). Given this, her quest is hardly a slam dunk.

snoopy
Aug. 4, 2011, 08:22 AM
Yes, Nina represents Thailand. But if I understand correctly, there is only one slot available for Asia at the 2012 Olympics. She will have to compete with some relatively heavy hitters for that spot. (Remember, Japan fielded a WEG team). Given this, her quest is hardly a slam dunk.

:yes:

Gnep
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:01 AM
Yes, Nina represents Thailand. But if I understand correctly, there is only one slot available for Asia at the 2012 Olympics. She will have to compete with some relatively heavy hitters for that spot. (Remember, Japan fielded a WEG team). Given this, her quest is hardly a slam dunk.

Thats why she needs a Top Worldclass horse, that has been there many times. Not to many of those on the market for sale.
Good for Dibo, first class Payday and considering the rotten luck that just hit one of his Team Members a smart decision. His barn is full of 2,3,4 Star horses. He got an amazing string.

spotlight*
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:04 AM
Yes, Nina represents Thailand. But if I understand correctly, there is only one slot available for Asia at the 2012 Olympics. She will have to compete with some relatively heavy hitters for that spot. (Remember, Japan fielded a WEG team). Given this, her quest is hardly a slam dunk.

One of Nina's connections posted an explanation early June on how the 20 individual spots for the Olympics are determined:
http://www.ninaligon.com/Site/Updates/Entries/2011/6/1_How_to_qualify_for_London_Olympics_101.html

She needs to be one of the top 20 on the Olympic point list (earned March 2011 to March 2012) that isn't from a country that has a team qualified. Points are earned at CCI4stars, CCI3stars and CIC3stars. Only the top 25% of competitors at a given competition are given points.

Most recent (updated June 30th) Olympic point rankings available from FEI are here:
http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/EVENTS/GAMES/OLYMPIC_GAMES/c_rankings_Olympic30.6.pdf
She is currently ranked 16th and needs to be in the Top 20. Assuming Australia qualifies a team for the Olympics (likely), she will move way up on the list (8th).

seeuatx
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:11 AM
So she comes from money. Your point? She's not the first upper level rider to have that, many have not only come from money but can trace to some to the most wealthy bloodlines in the country. Big Deal.

Frankly, while everyone loves a rags to riches story, those don't happen too much in this game. You have to have the available time and resources to devote, and they don't come cheap.

Good for Nina (and her parents) for being smart enough to know she needed some horses that already knew the ropes. I hesitate to say Packer because I have yet to meet a 4* horse that qualifies as an easy ride.

Snapdragon
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:11 AM
History might not agree.

Horses have always been bought for others to ride, especially in the run-up to the Olympics.

Good point. lec also pointed out on EN that Alex Hua Tian at 18 bought going 3*/4* horses leading up to the last Olympics.

The bigger point I was trying to make is the culture of eventing encourages/rewards those who make their own horses, and that's why some bristle at the idea of buying the made horse at that level. But, you're right, it's nothing new!

mugsgame
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:37 AM
Also none of you have commented about Julian Stiller who has a massive yearly budget when it comes to horse shopping! A winner of the 2* 7yo Champs will be roughly £200k maybe even more.

In the last 2-3 years Julian Stiller has bought:
Chapel Amble 4* horse
Enjoy Me 2* horse
Axel Rose 3* horse
Gunstone Wallstreet 3* horse
Salsa 2* horse
Carolinus 2* horse

These are just the big guns and does not include all the others that have been added to a huge string. I think Julian Stiller makes Nina Ligon look small fry! I very much doubt that Julian will be going to the Olympics either.

There are lots and lots of people out there who spend a fortune on horses. Mary King has had nearly £800k spent on her in the last 5 years on horse power but I guess thats ok! Mary has pretty much given up producing youngsters (has maybe one or two) and instead buys established horses.

llevent
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:49 AM
These are just the big guns and does not include all the others that have been added to a huge string. I think Julian Stiller makes Nina Ligon look small fry! I very much doubt that Julian will be going to the Olympics either.

There are lots and lots of people out there who spend a fortune on horses. Mary King has had nearly £800k spent on her in the last 5 years on horse power but I guess thats ok! Mary has pretty much given up producing youngsters (has maybe one or two) and instead buys established horses.

People probably don't comment on her as much, because a) they don't know as much about her, and b) she is over in England.

As for Mary King, she is no new up-and-coming rider. she has proven herself for years now; people should be buying her horses. Comparing Mary to these younger girls is like comparing apples to oranges.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:15 AM
The bigger point I was trying to make is the culture of eventing encourages/rewards those who make their own horses, and that's why some bristle at the idea of buying the made horse at that level. But, you're right, it's nothing new!


BS. MOST of the top riders in eventing from times past until now rode first at the highest levels on horses that were already made at that level. It is the exception that produces a horse to that level first. And even they would say that isn't the best way.....it was just the only choice they had. And most with knowledge in the eventing community understand this and encourage this....

I don't know a SINGLE top trainer that would tell a student...no, don't buy an experienced horse or string of horses to learn on. They would all love it for their riders to have this sort of opportunity as PART of their equestrian education. Bringing along a green horse...and riding competitively at the international levels are DIFFERENT skill sets that do not always complement one another. And just because a horse is experienced at a high level DOES NOT make them easy to ride! I'm sure Nina has to work her tail off to ride them well.

I wish her the best luck...it would be very cool for her to get to the Olympics....and even more exciting to be competitive there!

mustangsal85
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:23 AM
I don't believe she has a "whole string" of schoolmasterse. I think Paddy and Butts Leon qualify more as her schoolmasters than Fernhill Fearless or Jazz King. I know Fearless is more experienced at the Advanced level and I think he was the horse she moved up through the levels on. But Kim S was quoted saying that Nina needed an older horse to get mileage on to conserve Fearless for Olympic run. Unsure as to buying Paddy and Butts Leon within a couple months of each other but to each his own and I am sure Kim is happy that Paddy stayed within her connections.

Backstage
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:31 AM
You missed my point. :)

I didn't say I couldn't learn by riding a packer. I said it wasn't what I liked to do. I've been around long enough and I've always paid my own way, so I think I can make decisions about the life I want to have with horses.

My goal is for my horses to compete at the ULs. I have no desire to do so.

It would probably be cheaper to buy a top-class schoolmaster than to start with a mare and a few straws of frozen semen but it's just not what I enjoy. And horses are supposed to be fun, right?

:)

No, I didn't miss your point. I got it and completely agree that the lovely thing about this sport is that different people can enjoy it in different ways - including breeding, bringing along youngsters, competing at the lower levels or riding a "packer" at the upper levels. I was simply expressing the view that I'll never understand how even someone who isn't interested in having a packer would refer to it as "boring". Perhaps not rewarding to certain individuals, but not boring.

As for the actual topic at hand, I'm not sure it matters how many upper level horses Nina buys. Why is 4 different than 1-2? Seems to me that she and her connections are trying to minimize the miles on the horses she does have (something we should be embracing, no? sounds like good horsemanship) all while recognizing that Nina will develop at a rider the more she is out there competing. And I have no doubt that all those upper level horses are very different and she can then take those skills and ply them with her other, less experienced horses.

While its nice when a young rider without upper level experience takes a green horse up through the ranks, and they are certainly are deserving of praise and respect for doing so, I just don't view Nina's path, or Julian Stiller's, as some horrible alternative. If I had the desire, funds and ability to compete at the upper levels, the very first thing I would do would be to buy a schoolmaster or two to teach me the ropes.

LLDM
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:55 AM
Any young upper level rider who manages to keep their horses sound and whole has my vote! Make that any rider anywhere, frankly.

If she does make it to London 2012, it will be a HUGE boost for Thailand, a country that could REALLY use it.

It sounds to me like her team has a really good, albeit ambitious strategy. I REALLY like the fact that she is not "running through" other people's horses on her way up as is often the case with ambitious young riders (older riders too). Yes, that's because they can afford it, but they can, so why not do it in the least stressful manner on the horses?

I wish her luck.

SCFarm

LLDM
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:04 AM
BTW - People often forget that many great eventing pairs did not come up the ranks together. For example, Kilkenny was already a 4* horse before he was purchased for Jimmy Wofford. Since he rode Kilkenny in the 1968 Olympics when he was 22, he was likely not much older than Nina is now when he got the ride. His family wasn't exactly poor either. ;) Although it had a lot more equestrian depth.

SCFarm

Dawnd
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:12 AM
Here's why I am envious.

Can you imagine how incredibly awesome it would be to ride with Kim on Kim's old horse on a regular basis? Then add to that the opportunity to ride another Olympic caliber horse for even one lesson, let alone come home to him in your barn every night?

That is why I am envious. The opportunity she has been given/worked for/sacrificed for/gave bj's for (it really doesn't matter how/why she has this opportunity) is UNBELIEVABLE from a riders perspective.

To not be envious is almost harder to fathom.

LisaB
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:27 AM
Nina seems like a very nice young lady and a tactful/pretty rider to boot. I have been around her at several shows and she is the type of rider who has been blessed with regular great instruction from day 1. This makes a HUGE difference in someone's success/non-success in this sport.


Nope, she hasn't had the best instruction from day 1. Actually, I was jumping up and down with clappy hands that she moved onto Kim because she frustrated the heck out of me on who she was training with. I've seen her since she first started eventing when she would school x-c. And I saw the most driven kid I've ever laid eyes on. And with a shrewd smart mom to back her up. I was hoping the mom would wise up and boy, did she ever!
This is a kid who didn't fall through the cracks by bad instruction or more money than sense. I'm so happy for her!

ZiggyStardust
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:27 AM
I find it amusing that when a few people say this particular story is not their cup of tea, everyone and their mother has to jump in and defend the whole concept of the subject.

To say that being unimpressed or not gushing with oohs and ahhs equals sour grapes is frankly pretty naive. Spend more time with the children of the haves and the children of the have-nots and then assess how impressed you are.

yellowbritches
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:37 AM
Nope, she hasn't had the best instruction from day 1. Actually, I was jumping up and down with clappy hands that she moved onto Kim because she frustrated the heck out of me on who she was training with. I've seen her since she first started eventing when she would school x-c. And I saw the most driven kid I've ever laid eyes on. And with a shrewd smart mom to back her up. I was hoping the mom would wise up and boy, did she ever!
This is a kid who didn't fall through the cracks by bad instruction or more money than sense. I'm so happy for her!
This is actually a good point and her riding HAS improved immensely in the last little bit that she's been riding with Kim (I don't know when the switch happened, but now when I see her go it is mostly good with the occasional green rider mistake...it used to be LOTS of scary mistakes).

For the record, I'm not jealous or envious (would I kick a horse like Butts Leon out of bed for eating crackers? Hell no). I've grown up enough in the past few years that I get that we've all been dealt different hands. I make the best of what I've got (and I've got it A LOT easier than some, sheerly based on location, but also because of a few other factors), and hold no ill will to anyone who has it "better" than me. I do find the fact that everyone is so excited about her getting yet another remarkably good horse a little off putting, because she's basically no different than a lot of other YRs...she just happens to buy real world class horses instead of just good ones AND has a good chance of making it to the Olympics because of that and a funny little twist of fate. There really isn't anything remarkable about her. She has a good work ethic and some VERY good funding. Some people have one or the other...some have both. It's interesting but not praise worthy, in my book.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:46 AM
It's interesting but not praise worthy, in my book.

Honestly...getting into Stanford AND riding at this level is impressive to me.

Anyone who can be successful in both areas (no matter the money/horses) will get my attention. She has a lot of potential...more than just riding horses. I hope she continues to succeed. I don't envy her (I have a great life)....But I like seeing people do well. And I'm impressed by people who can be driven and successful in more than one area of their life. She comes accross as a really neat and interesting person (with a super supporting family)....I like that and will cheer for that.

Backstage
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:46 AM
I find it amusing that when a few people say this particular story is not their cup of tea, everyone and their mother has to jump in and defend the whole concept of the subject.

To say that being unimpressed or not gushing with oohs and ahhs equals sour grapes is frankly pretty naive. Spend more time with the children of the haves and the children of the have-nots and then assess how impressed you are.

Well, COTH is a discussion board. So, I'm not sure where having a discussion about the path of a young rider up the levels is troublesome!

Personally, I simply objected to YB's comments about the YR in question. Its just strikes me as so unnecessary and ungracious to specifically make a point of posting that rider is not spectacularly gifted, is only a decent enough rider and makes some basic mistakes.

Edited to add that BFNE said it better than I could! Riding at that level is impressive regardless of the path.


Honestly...getting into Stanford AND riding at this level is impressive to me.

Anyone who can be successful in both areas (no matter the money/horses) will get my attention. She has a lot of potential...more than just riding horses. I hope she continues to succeed. I don't envy her (I have a great life)....But I like seeing people do well. And I'm impressed by people who can be driven and successful in more than one area of their life. She comes accross as a really neat and interesting person (with a super supporting family)....I like that and will cheer for that.

Janet
Aug. 4, 2011, 12:19 PM
The bigger point I was trying to make is the culture of eventing encourages/rewards those who make their own horses, and that's why some bristle at the idea of buying the made horse at that level. But, you're right, it's nothing new!
Like BFNE, I don't think this is true.

When someone DOES "make their own horse" and suceeds at the upper levels, they get a lot of attention.

But they get that attention BECAUSE it is not the norm.

I think there is a splt-

-Those (process oriented) who focus on "making their own horses", even though they know it means they will probably be staying at the lower levels

-Those (results oriented) who focus on moving up the levels, and buy ther horses (made horses, schoolmasters) which will allow them to move up to the next level successfully.

Of course, there are lots of people in between. But the people who "make their own" and move with them up to "new to the rider" levels are few and far between.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 4, 2011, 01:12 PM
. Spend more time with the children of the haves and the children of the have-nots and then assess how impressed you are.


I have....and some children of the "have nots" are self entitled little brats who think the world should be handed to them and the only reason they are not successful in the world is they are one of the "have nots"....or worse, they take what they want and never give anything of themselves to others. Same as those from the "haves".......


I don't judge either by whether they are a "have" or a "have not"....what impresses me is what people do with what they have.


So it isn't impressive that they bought another horse...but what she is doing with what she has and her potential (success in many areas) that I find impressive and someone I want to see succeed.

I guess it boils down to the fact that I like to cheer for people who are doing something with what they have.......not spend time trying to belittle a person's success by saying or thinking it is just because they are one of the haves. I know that life isn't that simple.

Snapdragon
Aug. 4, 2011, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=Janet;5758110]

When someone DOES "make their own horse" and suceeds at the upper levels, they get a lot of attention.


QUOTE]

You obviously said this better then I did. I should have written "likes" rather than "encourages/rewards"--I think.:)

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 4, 2011, 03:00 PM
You obviously said this better then I did. I should have written "likes" rather than "encourages/rewards"--I think.:)


This I agree with---most everyone likes those sort of success stories. :)

FitToBeTied
Aug. 4, 2011, 04:51 PM
I'm not really surprised by this thread but it does seem to contradict several other threads that have addressed the topic of getting to the top.

First of all, how many times have we seen the "ULR riders need to have sponsors" thread. Well, in this case the girl's sponsor are her parents. Would people have been happier if the Ligons had dumped the money on Kim instead? where would the O'connors have been without the Mars family?

Second, we always have threads about getting the "been there, done that" horse to take you up the levels so that you can learn. This seems to be what the girl is doing.

Third, she is far from the first athlete to take advantage of duel citizenship to find an easier road to the Olympics.

I've never met her or her mother but have met her father, in a business environment, but everything I've heard is positive. If she makes it to the Olympics, no small feat no matter how much money you have, we should applaud.

I for one know that no matter how great a horse you give me, I can't get it around a 4* course.

WishIWereRiding
Aug. 4, 2011, 04:57 PM
Just out of curiosity, what do her parents (father) do? Can they adopt me? Lucky girl!

subk
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:03 PM
Just out of curiosity, what do her parents (father) do? Can they adopt me? Lucky girl!
Co-founder, former CEO and president of Carmax.

WishIWereRiding
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:25 PM
Wow! So they must be oozing money. Explains a lot. Lucky!

subk
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:28 PM
Lucky!
Hardly. It takes a tremendous amount of hard work, smarts, drive, risk and creativity to come up with a concept then turn it in to such a winner.

WishIWereRiding
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:35 PM
Hardly. It takes a tremendous amount of hard work, smarts, drive, risk and creativity to come up with a concept then turn it in to such a winner.

Yeah, and she is a very lucky girl to have such opportunities!

wcporter
Aug. 4, 2011, 05:40 PM
"Here we go...Here we go again...Don`t wanna hear the same thing..." :winkgrin:

lep
Aug. 4, 2011, 08:47 PM
I just saw on EN that she just bought another UL horse.

GraceLikeRain
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:13 PM
I for one know that no matter how great a horse you give me, I can't get it around a 4* course.

Ha ya, HUGE ditto. All the lessons in the world wouldn't give me the courage or skill to get around a 2* in all honesty.

No one has yet to step forward and say that they personally know this family and that they are awful or mean-spirited people. Everyone has echoed the same thing, that the parents are dedicated, patient, and classy even under pressure and that they have raised a driven, hardworking daughter. I think it is wonderful that they are supporting her and helping her reach her goals.

She is blessed to have these opportunities and it seems like she realizes this and is more than willing to put in the hard work. I look forward to following her progress.

hrslver
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:26 PM
She is a very fortunate young lady! to have a limitiless budget to get to London certainly increases the likelyhood she will get there.
Those who do make their own horses and ride their way up through the ranks certainly don't get the attention of riders who "make the headlines" with huge purchases
Can this discussion name 5 prospective London riders, any Nation who are young and going to get there on a horse they made ???

TB or not TB?
Aug. 4, 2011, 09:27 PM
I think it's wonderful that she's applying herself to something so thoroughly, and that she has the resources to do so. Few people have the persistence for the former even if they do have the backing for the latter.

Plus, considering the inherit schadenfreude of the horse world, every move she makes will be (already is!) scrutinized and judged. I definitely do not want to be her, nor do I envy her!

Gnep
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:37 PM
For me this thread and the deal and the story around it is more than bizzar.
There is a teen and her mother, naturally I guess a father, and they set out for this quest to go to the Olympics.
I take for granted that she is a nice girl, her mother a real fine Lady and her Father a Gentelman, ok ?

But for some odd reason this does not fit, 19 and how many very fine 5 figure and 6 figure horses and now one of the best, Gold Medal Horse.

That is discussed and treated like, well the sun is shining.
I am probably realy oldfashioned, but that is to me rather bizzar, if not obscene. How much or how many does it take to buy your way into the Olympics.
Thailand is naturally one of the stellar eventing Nations, so many redshirts on the streets, dazling.

Is that what Eventing today boils down to ?

hrslver
Aug. 4, 2011, 10:45 PM
GNEP, sadly for some this is what Eventing looks like currently
Clearly she will be able to buy her way to London while representing Thailand, she won't have much standing in her way as far as selection goes, it however does not represent the true meaning of the Olympic games and years of hardship and dedication and hard work to get there. Which is what most athletes and riders do
The way it's happening for her is like some Carnival ride that she wants to hop on then back off and go to school.
Yes alot of folks have the backing of some serious money on their way to their first Olympic games and some sadly don't.
The difference is most of those have worked very hard and given up much along the way.
That is not the case here

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:04 PM
GNEP, sadly for some this is what Eventing looks like currently
Clearly she will be able to buy her way to London while representing Thailand, she won't have much standing in her way as far as selection goes, it however does not represent the true meaning of the Olympic games and years of hardship and dedication and hard work to get there. Which is what most athletes and riders do
The way it's happening for her is like some Carnival ride that she wants to hop on then back off and go to school.
Yes alot of folks have the backing of some serious money on their way to their first Olympic games and some sadly don't.
The difference is most of those have worked very hard and given up much along the way.
That is not the case here

REALLY. Honestly...some of you guys are very tiring. This isn't new for the Olympics or for eventing or ANY horse sports. MOST of the top riders come from priviledge. You may not know it...but most do. Just because a rider has a nice string of horses doesn't mean she isn't working her ass off. No matter how nice the horses....she still has to ride them. And IF she is successful and competitive.....you all will not give her any credit anyway.

And true meaning of Olympics...give me a break. Most Olympic athletes don't even consider equestrian a real sport.

Gnep...people had to sell these horses too. And back in the day...we had "team" horses that were given to a privileged few. This isn't new. But what is impressive is this young rider (well mounted for sure) is a good enough rider already to have a shot. Imagine how good she could be if she contiuned on this drive and at this level of growth.

Gnep
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:45 PM
REALLY. Honestly...some of you guys are very tiring. This isn't new for the Olympics or for eventing or ANY horse sports. MOST of the top riders come from priviledge. You may not know it...but most do. Just because a rider has a nice string of horses doesn't mean she isn't working her ass off. No matter how nice the horses....she still has to ride them. And IF she is successful and competitive.....you all will not give her any credit anyway.

And true meaning of Olympics...give me a break. Most Olympic athletes don't even consider equestrian a real sport.

Gnep...people had to sell these horses too. And back in the day...we had "team" horses that were given to a privileged few. This isn't new. But what is impressive is this young rider (well mounted for sure) is a good enough rider already to have a shot. Imagine how good she could be if she contiuned on this drive and at this level of growth.

Wrong, very few that go in eventing to the Olympics have just turned twen.
It takes money and sponsorship to make it in eventing, but if you go for the standard qualifications in standard eventing nations, you realy have to earn your way, seriously.
If this young lady would try for the US nomination, she would not even make reserve, no matter how much her parents spent on horse flesh.
She is probably a very good rider, for her age, but put her on a standard Young Rider mount and she will turn out just what she is, a little bejond average, not fantastic.
So now she got a horse with a Gold Medall around his neck and it will be the ticket, for a country and an area that is non existant on the eventing world.
We are not talking about the big girls and boys, who got a ton of 4 stars and what ever under their belt, its a TEEN, just a Young Rider, nothing more, at the best, that gets its way bought into the Olympics, probably.

The whole story is bizzar. I feel sorry for this Great Horse, good for Dibo and his Co-owner, nice beermoney.
But overall it is disgusting.

Gnep
Aug. 4, 2011, 11:48 PM
GNEP, sadly for some this is what Eventing looks like currently
Clearly she will be able to buy her way to London while representing Thailand, she won't have much standing in her way as far as selection goes, it however does not represent the true meaning of the Olympic games and years of hardship and dedication and hard work to get there. Which is what most athletes and riders do
The way it's happening for her is like some Carnival ride that she wants to hop on then back off and go to school.
Yes alot of folks have the backing of some serious money on their way to their first Olympic games and some sadly don't.
The difference is most of those have worked very hard and given up much along the way.
That is not the case here

I very much agree with you, this is a disgusting joke for eventing.

CiegoStar
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:06 AM
Gnep, you need to relax. There is no need to tear down a teenaged girl for pursuing her dreams. And the horse, I can assure you, does not need your pity. I hope if Nina is reading this thread she realizes that the naysayers are saying a lot more about themselves than about her.

Nina placed second in her first CCI*** this spring with the help of her very experienced coach. Sounds like a good recipe for safe, smart success to me.

atheventer85
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:18 AM
Jules has a somewhat different situation.... She was here in the states until her early 20's eventing a horse she produced herself to the Advanced level, and working for Kelli Temple. She too has privilege, but she has done her time. She just now ran her first 4* this spring at Luhmuhlen. She has worked very hard to get where she is, and yes, she does have VERY nice horses, but nothing in her yard is even close to a packer.

Making time in your first Advanced HT isn't safe at all.... And the 3* Nina was 2nd in was against very slim competition.

SevenDogs
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:37 AM
Mean, jealous people suck. Go Nina!

Best post on this thread!

gooddirt
Aug. 5, 2011, 07:19 AM
Credit where credit is due: Nina's dad achieved his American dream. He was an exec at Circuit City and he built Carmax, a successful new division of the company.

Now Nina and her mother are achieving their dream of success at the highest levels of eventing. Don't hold it against them. They have all paid their dues.

FairWeather
Aug. 5, 2011, 07:50 AM
This is one of those threads where you start a mental list of "people I'd rather not know in real life".
I'm amazed that people can be filled with such vitriol about a kid who has the luck to have been born into wealth. How gross.

Carried Away
Aug. 5, 2011, 08:34 AM
Fairweather, I couldn't agree more!

I can't help but think how some of the posters here would anonymously trash me if I were lucky enough to be in a similar situation, or God forbid if I made a mistake that happened to be public! Talk about judgemental...it's amazing to me how so many know-it-alls in our sport have the time to sit in front of the computer and bash others...

evntr5218
Aug. 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
i am also going to jump on the band wagon here and wish nina the best with her horses!!! while i dont know her personally everything i have ever heard about her and her family have been nothing but wonderful things. i think it is sad that a bunch of adults are on here bashing a young girl just for being fortunate enough to have some incredible opportunites. and who cares if she doesnt make it to the olympics. kudos to her for trying her hardest.
if my mom had been in the position to supply me with wonderful horses she would have in a second and i can tell you that i would not have turned it down. jealousy is not an admirable trait people!!!!
I AM TEAM NINA ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GO GIRL:)

Xctrygirl
Aug. 5, 2011, 10:38 AM
I have read through this thread and though I hesitate to jump in I am at a loss to understand why there is the vibrant need to tear down a 19 yr old?

Moreover why is it that we are now saying that the Poggio's, Nirvana II & Molokai's are the only types of horses and partners we should aspire to?

I am gonna look back for a sec and do a little reminding for the folks on this thread, lest we forget the "idols" we now worship and who helped to make them great..

Winsome Adante: Bought after winning a CCI* in the Uk

Biko: Brought up through CCI* by Kim Keppick

Custom Made: Purchased in Ireland after having done a CCI*

Gandalf: Purchased as a Made CCI**** horse for Mark Todd to try to make the Beijing Olympics in one year.

(Most prevalent) Moorlands Totilas: WEG Champion and purchased to give new rider a shot to make 2012 Olympics.


Now for the younger riders:

I think we're forgetting Wendy Schaffer: 21 yrs old and an Olympic Gold Medallist on her first try in Atlanta... (And having met her a charming young lady)

http://www.sunburstequestrian.com/my-horses/tribute-to-sunburst.htm

How about... Luiza Tavares de Almeida, 17, became the youngest-ever Olympic equestrian at age 16 when she competed with the Brazilian team in dressage at the 2008 Olympics.

Ben Maher represented Great Britain in show jumping at Beijing, at the ripe old age of 25.

Alex Tua Hian was 18 in Beijing when he represented the host nation...

So over and over people have purchased horses that were already going to try to make a run at a future team spot. And over and over young riders have come up the ranks quickly with help from supporters/sponsors/breeders etc to try to get a team spot.


I am not sure whether it's the depth of the string that Nina has or just the fact that we Americans maybe want the Land of the brave and the home of the free to be providing opportunities....but only for the "actual" Americans? And God forbid is things are unfair, and somehow its being deemed not relevant that many US riders aren't willing to put in the work that Nina is putting in to escalate her chances to achieve this goal. Let us not forget that buying a horse is only 1 step in a process. Riding it, training, competing, keeping it sound and forming a partnership are all necessary components to this endeavor...at any level.

I understand those who think Nina's backing has "bought" her way onto a team. But so what? It's the Thailand team. And as she is of Thai decent. It's a part of her life and her family's life and she wants to bring recognition and pride to a country that could frankly use a bit of attention and positive stories.

I know you won't believe me, but maybe she opted NOT to try for the US team because of all the extraneous BS that's currently polluting our system. Lord knows her coach has seen it well. And hell, Nina isn't tied down by the Captain or the USET. (And the very "interesting" veterinary maintenance protocols instituted therin)

I wish her well, and admire all the hard work she does on a daily basis. You can't fake that, and no matter how many horses are in her string, every one could succumb to some silly minor injury, pasture accident or bad luck. So good for her and hopefully the depth exists to get her to London.

~Emily

snoopy
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:01 AM
Look at all Jimmy Wofford's horses!!!! Basically all of those were bought as 4 star horses.

RacetrackReject
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:03 AM
Well said Emily!

fooler
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:16 AM
I have read through this thread and though I hesitate to jump in I am at a loss to understand why there is the vibrant need to tear down a 19 yr old?

Moreover why is it that we are now saying that the Poggio's, Nirvana II & Molokai's are the only types of horses and partners we should aspire to?

I am gonna look back for a sec and do a little reminding for the folks on this thread, lest we forget the "idols" we now worship and who helped to make them great..

Winsome Adante: Bought after winning a CCI* in the Uk

Biko: Brought up through CCI* by Kim Keppick

Custom Made: Purchased in Ireland after having done a CCI*

Gandalf: Purchased as a Made CCI**** horse for Mark Todd to try to make the Beijing Olympics in one year.

(Most prevalent) Moorlands Totilas: WEG Champion and purchased to give new rider a shot to make 2012 Olympics.


Now for the younger riders:

I think we're forgetting Wendy Schaffer: 21 yrs old and an Olympic Gold Medallist on her first try in Atlanta... (And having met her a charming young lady)

http://www.sunburstequestrian.com/my-horses/tribute-to-sunburst.htm

How about... Luiza Tavares de Almeida, 17, became the youngest-ever Olympic equestrian at age 16 when she competed with the Brazilian team in dressage at the 2008 Olympics.

Ben Maher represented Great Britain in show jumping at Beijing, at the ripe old age of 25.

Alex Tua Hian was 18 in Beijing when he represented the host nation...

So over and over people have purchased horses that were already going to try to make a run at a future team spot. And over and over young riders have come up the ranks quickly with help from supporters/sponsors/breeders etc to try to get a team spot.


I am not sure whether it's the depth of the string that Nina has or just the fact that we Americans maybe want the Land of the brave and the home of the free to be providing opportunities....but only for the "actual" Americans? And God forbid is things are unfair, and somehow its being deemed not relevant that many US riders aren't willing to put in the work that Nina is putting in to escalate her chances to achieve this goal. Let us not forget that buying a horse is only 1 step in a process. Riding it, training, competing, keeping it sound and forming a partnership are all necessary components to this endeavor...at any level.

I understand those who think Nina's backing has "bought" her way onto a team. But so what? It's the Thailand team. And as she is of Thai decent. It's a part of her life and her family's life and she wants to bring recognition and pride to a country that could frankly use a bit of attention and positive stories.

I know you won't believe me, but maybe she opted NOT to try for the US team because of all the extraneous BS that's currently polluting our system. Lord knows her coach has seen it well. And hell, Nina isn't tied down by the Captain or the USET. (And the very "interesting" veterinary maintenance protocols instituted therin)

I wish her well, and admire all the hard work she does on a daily basis. You can't fake that, and no matter how many horses are in her string, every one could succumb to some silly minor injury, pasture accident or bad luck. So good for her and hopefully the depth exists to get her to London.

~Emily

Rock on Emily!

FYI - The great (IMO) show jumper Kathy Kusner came from a mid- to lower-income background. Many at the time chose to look down their respective noses at her because of her 'humble' beginnings while admiring her incredible ability. They also didn't care for her attempts to get a jockey license. "Some things just are not done" - to earn money in horses and be a member of the USET!

Funny that she had her detractors because of her humble background while today many are trashing Nina for her financial backing. The same financial backing that many would have wished for riders such as Kathy or ourselves.;)

mustangsal85
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:17 AM
I have read through this thread and though I hesitate to jump in I am at a loss to understand why there is the vibrant need to tear down a 19 yr old?

Moreover why is it that we are now saying that the Poggio's, Nirvana II & Molokai's are the only types of horses and partners we should aspire to?

I am gonna look back for a sec and do a little reminding for the folks on this thread, lest we forget the "idols" we now worship and who helped to make them great..

Winsome Adante: Bought after winning a CCI* in the Uk

Biko: Brought up through CCI* by Kim Keppick

Custom Made: Purchased in Ireland after having done a CCI*

Gandalf: Purchased as a Made CCI**** horse for Mark Todd to try to make the Beijing Olympics in one year.

(Most prevalent) Moorlands Totilas: WEG Champion and purchased to give new rider a shot to make 2012 Olympics.


Now for the younger riders:

I think we're forgetting Wendy Schaffer: 21 yrs old and an Olympic Gold Medallist on her first try in Atlanta... (And having met her a charming young lady)

http://www.sunburstequestrian.com/my-horses/tribute-to-sunburst.htm

How about... Luiza Tavares de Almeida, 17, became the youngest-ever Olympic equestrian at age 16 when she competed with the Brazilian team in dressage at the 2008 Olympics.

Ben Maher represented Great Britain in show jumping at Beijing, at the ripe old age of 25.

Alex Tua Hian was 18 in Beijing when he represented the host nation...

So over and over people have purchased horses that were already going to try to make a run at a future team spot. And over and over young riders have come up the ranks quickly with help from supporters/sponsors/breeders etc to try to get a team spot.


I am not sure whether it's the depth of the string that Nina has or just the fact that we Americans maybe want the Land of the brave and the home of the free to be providing opportunities....but only for the "actual" Americans? And God forbid is things are unfair, and somehow its being deemed not relevant that many US riders aren't willing to put in the work that Nina is putting in to escalate her chances to achieve this goal. Let us not forget that buying a horse is only 1 step in a process. Riding it, training, competing, keeping it sound and forming a partnership are all necessary components to this endeavor...at any level.

I understand those who think Nina's backing has "bought" her way onto a team. But so what? It's the Thailand team. And as she is of Thai decent. It's a part of her life and her family's life and she wants to bring recognition and pride to a country that could frankly use a bit of attention and positive stories.

I know you won't believe me, but maybe she opted NOT to try for the US team because of all the extraneous BS that's currently polluting our system. Lord knows her coach has seen it well. And hell, Nina isn't tied down by the Captain or the USET. (And the very "interesting" veterinary maintenance protocols instituted therin)

I wish her well, and admire all the hard work she does on a daily basis. You can't fake that, and no matter how many horses are in her string, every one could succumb to some silly minor injury, pasture accident or bad luck. So good for her and hopefully the depth exists to get her to London.

~Emily


Very well said.

There is something to be said about those who develop a horse and bring it from BN to A. Mind blowing. But you shouldn't take merit away from either approach. Nay sayers will always have something to say about any method of training or preparation.

seeuatx
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:20 AM
I have read through this thread and though I hesitate to jump in I am at a loss to understand why there is the vibrant need to tear down a 19 yr old?

Moreover why is it that we are now saying that the Poggio's, Nirvana II & Molokai's are the only types of horses and partners we should aspire to?

I am gonna look back for a sec and do a little reminding for the folks on this thread, lest we forget the "idols" we now worship and who helped to make them great..

Winsome Adante: Bought after winning a CCI* in the Uk

Biko: Brought up through CCI* by Kim Keppick

Custom Made: Purchased in Ireland after having done a CCI*

Gandalf: Purchased as a Made CCI**** horse for Mark Todd to try to make the Beijing Olympics in one year.

(Most prevalent) Moorlands Totilas: WEG Champion and purchased to give new rider a shot to make 2012 Olympics.


Now for the younger riders:

I think we're forgetting Wendy Schaffer: 21 yrs old and an Olympic Gold Medallist on her first try in Atlanta... (And having met her a charming young lady)

http://www.sunburstequestrian.com/my-horses/tribute-to-sunburst.htm

How about... Luiza Tavares de Almeida, 17, became the youngest-ever Olympic equestrian at age 16 when she competed with the Brazilian team in dressage at the 2008 Olympics.

Ben Maher represented Great Britain in show jumping at Beijing, at the ripe old age of 25.

Alex Tua Hian was 18 in Beijing when he represented the host nation...

So over and over people have purchased horses that were already going to try to make a run at a future team spot. And over and over young riders have come up the ranks quickly with help from supporters/sponsors/breeders etc to try to get a team spot.


This!

And Karen O'Connor bought Regal Scott from Mark Todd for the Sydney Olympics. He was already a confirmed advanced horse at the time. (I did originally post it backwards before I remembered the horses name)

And on the YR list- Zara would have represented Great Britain in Athens at the "ripe old age" (;) ;) ) of 23 had Toy Town not been hurt.

And just to add another thought. On this thread people may be saying they want to see riders come up on their own horses, ala Jill and Nirvana. But how many other times have we heard someone spout off that Jill and Nirvana were not experienced enough as a pair for the team and all but blew it for us. People want to say similar about Poggio and Amy.

On the other end people are still sore that Teddy went to Karen, who's resume at the upper levels can not be refuted, from Christan who while talented was still newer to the upper levels.

So what is it? Do we want our riders to build their own horses from the ground up, or do we want experienced pairs that win medals?

wildlifer
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:22 AM
Wow, six pages because a rich kid bought a horse? I just want to know if her parents offer adoption.

llevent
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:28 AM
I have read through this thread and though I hesitate to jump in I am at a loss to understand why there is the vibrant need to tear down a 19 yr old?

Moreover why is it that we are now saying that the Poggio's, Nirvana II & Molokai's are the only types of horses and partners we should aspire to?

I am gonna look back for a sec and do a little reminding for the folks on this thread, lest we forget the "idols" we now worship and who helped to make them great..

Winsome Adante: Bought after winning a CCI* in the Uk

Biko: Brought up through CCI* by Kim Keppick

Custom Made: Purchased in Ireland after having done a CCI*

Gandalf: Purchased as a Made CCI**** horse for Mark Todd to try to make the Beijing Olympics in one year.

(Most prevalent) Moorlands Totilas: WEG Champion and purchased to give new rider a shot to make 2012 Olympics.


Now for the younger riders:

I think we're forgetting Wendy Schaffer: 21 yrs old and an Olympic Gold Medallist on her first try in Atlanta... (And having met her a charming young lady)

http://www.sunburstequestrian.com/my-horses/tribute-to-sunburst.htm

How about... Luiza Tavares de Almeida, 17, became the youngest-ever Olympic equestrian at age 16 when she competed with the Brazilian team in dressage at the 2008 Olympics.

Ben Maher represented Great Britain in show jumping at Beijing, at the ripe old age of 25.

Alex Tua Hian was 18 in Beijing when he represented the host nation...


~Emily

I don't disagree with you, except for a few things:

There is a huge difference between a **** and a *. So what is your point about Biko, WA, and CM? There are a ton of * horses that will never make it to the 3 or 4* level. Also, Mark Todd is incredible, and has worked his way to the top. People should be buying horses for him. Same as Mary King (mentioned before.) you can't compare the greatest riders of all time to up-and-coming riders when it comes to perks.

Wendy Schaffer apparently brought her horse through the levels from PC.. I don't think the people who have problems with NL's goal are angry at the fact that she is young, but because she is seemingly "buying her way" to the top. Wendy didn't seem to do this, in fact this shows that it can be done without buying multiple made horses to get you there.

Yes, as you shown, many others have done this, but does this make it admirable? To each their own, I would say. I just think a lot of people like to see the pair that has fought the odds and made it (really isn't this what we think of when we think of the olympics?) and there is nothing wrong with that. At the same time, I don't think bashing Nina is right either, and I hope she is successful in her attempts to reach her goal.

llevent
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:31 AM
This!

So what is it? Do we want our riders to build their own horses from the ground up, or do we want experienced pairs that win medals?

Both :lol: I think people don't see it as an issue when someone like KOC (who has, after years and years, built up a reputation) buys an already successful mount because she has herself has already proven herself. Same for Mark Todd, Mary King, etc....

Beam Me Up
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:38 AM
Riding is an expensive sport.
I don't know how anyone can draw a line as to what is buying your way vs. working your way, because at the end of the day, everyone has spent a lot of time, energy, and money.

If buying a * horse is ok, but a **** star horse is not ok, what about a ** horse?
Or, if it's ok for very famous-multi-Olympians to do it, but not YR, what about a 35 year old short list member?
Is it ok to spend 2K on a horse? 10k? 50K? 500K?

We all wish we were better riders, had more money, etc., but I just don't see how we can draw lines to categorize some purchases ok and others somehow unethical.

purplnurpl
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:21 PM
It's hard to believe the German Olympic committee let him go after what they did to save Sam for their Team. He is one of the absolute premier event horses in the world, but perhaps his age made him available. Or perhaps the Germans decided that Dibowski's Fantasia FRH who won Pau last year is his mount for next years Olympics.

The Butts in his name is for his breeder, Herr Friedrich (sp) Butt, who died a couple of years ago. He bred TBs to Hanoverian branded mares for generations, and Leon is something like 31/32 TB. Herr Butt was one of the truly great event horse breeders, and Ingrid Klimke has one of his currently as her top mount--Butts Abraxxis.

Since Euroridings probably won't be sponsoring Ms. Ligon, the horse will probably compete as Butts Leon.

I've always made fun of him by calling him
"Lion's Ass".
:lol:

fooler
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:24 PM
Both :lol: I think people don't see it as an issue when someone like KOC (who has, after years and years, built up a reputation) buys an already successful mount because she has herself has already proven herself. Same for Mark Todd, Mary King, etc....

KOC rode and worked with Wofford for years. When he retired in 1984 she took over his farm, rides, many proided by the Thompsons and the Mars. Plus she also had benefit of family backing.
Both Todd and King also had benefit of "some family" backing plus donors.

You just don't get to that level and stay there without some sort of financial backing.

llevent
Aug. 5, 2011, 12:40 PM
KOC rode and worked with Wofford for years. When he retired in 1984 she took over his farm, rides, many proided by the Thompsons and the Mars. Plus she also had benefit of family backing.
Both Todd and King also had benefit of "some family" backing plus donors.

You just don't get to that level and stay there without some sort of financial backing.

obviously! that's not the point i was trying to make. family backing is essential, but having read Life in the Galloping Lane and Mary King's bit in How Good Riders Get Good, neither of them were bought multiple 3/4* horses until they were an already established name.

fooler
Aug. 5, 2011, 01:10 PM
obviously! that's not the point i was trying to make. family backing is essential, but having read Life in the Galloping Lane and Mary King's bit in How Good Riders Get Good, neither of them were bought multiple 3/4* horses until they were an already established name.

The sport has changed since KOC, King and Todd were coming up. Back then there were fewer Events. Most were HT's with Destination LF Events in the Spring and Fall. At one time it was noted there were more ULR riders than ULR horses.

Today there are more horses brought up to the UL's than before. Probably due to year round HT's, CIC's and SF CCI's.

Carol Ames
Aug. 5, 2011, 01:23 PM
I am trying to recall any American having an Olympic level horse purchased for them, and can think of only two, Carawich for Jimmy Wofford and Laureson for Mike Plumb.Was tehr eyone else? Karen had Shamrock, then March Brown and Mister Maxwell David had two older Tbs until, he got Border Raider; anyone else?

Xctrygirl
Aug. 5, 2011, 01:34 PM
Jacob Two Too... for Julie Richards.... courtesy of her wealthy husband, and owner of Foxhall, Jim Richards.

Had already been a short list team horse for Ab, but then got hurt.

~Emily

Blugal
Aug. 5, 2011, 01:43 PM
Several of Lucinda Green's were Advanced level when she got them. I'd have to check, but I believe Village Gossip had done Burghley, another was bought after the 1978 World Champs from a returning Aus or NZ member, George was going Advanced (although had had some falls).

Blugal
Aug. 5, 2011, 01:52 PM
Just noticed that Chaka did Badminton with Judy Herbert in 1990 and 1992 prior to being ridden by William Fox-Pitt at Badminton in 1993 & 1994.

BAC
Aug. 5, 2011, 02:13 PM
I am trying to recall any American having an Olympic level horse purchased for them, and can think of only two, Carawich for Jimmy Wofford and Laureson for Mike Plumb.Was tehr eyone else? Karen had Shamrock, then March Brown and Mister Maxwell David had two older Tbs until, he got Border Raider; anyone else?

Even though he usually makes up his own, I can remember one of Bruce Davidson's long time owners (can't remember his name, he is involved with steeplechase horses as well) buying him an advanced horse with the hopes of it making the Olympic team. I can't remember the horse's name either, but I seem to recall it broke down or died. Can anyone else supply the names? Getting old sucks. :(

Beam Me Up
Aug. 5, 2011, 02:19 PM
High Scope maybe?

BAC
Aug. 5, 2011, 02:27 PM
I think it was High Scope, wasn't that the grey horse that Bruce had the bad fall on several years ago?

Ranger
Aug. 5, 2011, 02:42 PM
I am trying to recall any American having an Olympic level horse purchased for them, and can think of only two, Carawich for Jimmy Wofford and Laureson for Mike Plumb.Was tehr eyone else? Karen had Shamrock, then March Brown and Mister Maxwell David had two older Tbs until, he got Border Raider; anyone else?

Karen Stives rode the fantastic horse Ben Arthur in the 1984 Olympics - and he wa spotted by Karen's mom at the 1982 WEG's (apparently) and she purchased him for Karen.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 5, 2011, 03:47 PM
I think it was High Scope, wasn't that the grey horse that Bruce had the bad fall on several years ago?


no I don't think that was High Scope that he had the fall on but High Scope was on the Irish Olympic team before he was bought for Bruce. (a total crosscountry machine)

BAC
Aug. 5, 2011, 03:49 PM
no I don't think that was High Scope that he had the fall on but High Scope was on the Irish Olympic team before he was bought for Bruce. (a total crosscountry machine)

Maybe Apparition? Even when I google I can't come up with it.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 5, 2011, 03:54 PM
Maybe Apparition? Even when I google I can't come up with it.


Haven't found it either...but unlike GNEP said...did find where Bruce first rode for the US team when he was 18 (and got his first Olympic medal at 22).

Loved this quote:

At 18, Davidson participated in a tryout for aspiring eventers run by Neil Ayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neil_Ayer&action=edit&redlink=1) and Jack LeGoff (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jack_LeGoff&action=edit&redlink=1), who were trying to build the United States team to an international level. He had talent, and according to LeGoff, "He didn't know which diagonal he was posting when he came to me. Two years later, he was riding in the Olympics." Davidson was chosen, and began training with the USET in a four-year, seven-day-a-week program in Gladstone, New Jersey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladstone,_New_Jersey)

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 5, 2011, 04:02 PM
Maybe Apparition? Even when I google I can't come up with it.


I did come up with it. It was High Scope. Horse broke his neck and died in the fall and Bruce was pretty hurt.

BAC
Aug. 5, 2011, 04:10 PM
I did come up with it. It was High Scope. Horse broke his neck and died in the fall and Bruce was pretty hurt.

That's what we said originally. ;)

vineyridge
Aug. 5, 2011, 04:21 PM
I know they bought Leon for their daughter "to practice" on, but wouldn't it be superfantastic if she learned on him for the next few months and then they leased him to her trainer (KS) for the Olympic season?

Could KS make a functional partnership in such a short time?

Janet
Aug. 5, 2011, 04:22 PM
I am trying to recall any American having an Olympic level horse purchased for them, and can think of only two, Carawich for Jimmy Wofford and Laureson for Mike Plumb.Was tehr eyone else? Karen had Shamrock, then March Brown and Mister Maxwell David had two older Tbs until, he got Border Raider; anyone else?

From the USEA HAll of Fame website

Grashopper
http://useventing.com/hof/index.php?id=8

Kilkenny
http://useventing.com/hof/index.php?id=18

Good Mixture
http://useventing.com/hof/index.php?id=21

Ben Arthur
http://useventing.com/hof/index.php?id=17

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 5, 2011, 04:23 PM
That's what we said originally. ;)


Yup--you were right (It was at Over the Walls HT in MA). That horse was one of the only double clear xc/SJ horses from the Sydney Olympics (ridden by and Irish rider)....very good jumper which is why the fall was so unexpected (talent and experience with both horse and rider).

He had the same sire as Buck's horse My Boy Bobby (Touchdown).


But this is...happily...going off topic;)

PonyGal08
Aug. 5, 2011, 05:01 PM
I know they bought Leon for their daughter "to practice" on, but wouldn't it be superfantastic if she learned on him for the next few months and then they leased him to her trainer (KS) for the Olympic season?

Could KS make a functional partnership in such a short time?

The impression I got from the COTH article (http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/ligon-buys-euroridings-butts-leon) is that he's more than just "to practice" on.

I still think she's a smart young lady who is working on her goal in a smart and methodical way.

Gnep
Aug. 5, 2011, 11:05 PM
Maybe he is KS' ride, would make sence.
A real first class rider on that horse would be able to do some real damage in 2012.
Maybe the US could even get a medal.

clivers
Aug. 6, 2011, 09:52 AM
Didn't Bruce Davidson get the ride on The Irishman after Rodney Powell won Badminton with him? I heard he came to the USA and never really performed at that level again (?injury? something else?).

hrslver
Aug. 6, 2011, 01:31 PM
Most of the ULR's mentioned in this thread having been o the receiving end of horses that had come up through the levels with someone else did not buy their way onto any team the first time they given such an honor.
There is a big difference between KOC BD and all the other icons mentioned here and a 19 yr old teenager who wants it all NOW
There are amny valuable lessons to be learned on the "way Up" money cannot teach those IMO

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2011, 03:43 PM
It doesn't hurt to have national funding;
http://www.ninaligon.com/Site/About.html

NCRider
Aug. 6, 2011, 04:21 PM
I think it's a cool quest for a talented young rider who is only going to get better. I've seen her a couple of times this year and she has looked more assured of herself each time. If she makes it to the Olympics it will be pretty exciting for Thai riders. While it is always a good story to have riders make it to the team on their first big horse that they brought up themselves, it's rare. I also think it's a good story when nations that don't usually have representation in a particular sport, do. Nothing makes me cry more than the single athlete nations in the Parade of Nations at the Opening Ceremonies. Now I'm sure Thailand will have a good sized contingent from other sports for the summer Olympics but it will still be cool. If she does make it, I hope she gets to march since the equestrian events will be more centrally located this time.


Go Nina!

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2011, 04:50 PM
Didn't Bruce Davidson get the ride on The Irishman after Rodney Powell won Badminton with him? I heard he came to the USA and never really performed at that level again (?injury? something else?).

Language barrier.

atheventer85
Aug. 6, 2011, 05:17 PM
There just was a post today on EN about Tina Cooke. She said she has produced EVERY horse she has competed at advanced herself. That's phenomenal. Maybe Nina should take a leaf out of the current European Champion's book.....

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 6, 2011, 05:22 PM
There just was a post today on EN about Tina Cooke. She said she has produced EVERY horse she has competed at advanced herself. That's phenomenal. Maybe Nina should take a leaf out of the current European Champion's book.....



Why? There is more than one road to Rome. And Tina's route is not the only way (nor the normal way)....and I BET if you asked Tina she would agree and wouldn't be putting down another rider learning from their horses and taking a safer route where not both partners are new to the level.

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2011, 06:03 PM
There just was a post today on EN about Tina Cooke. She said she has produced EVERY horse she has competed at advanced herself. That's phenomenal. Maybe Nina should take a leaf out of the current European Champion's book.....

That European champion had way more experienced horse folks around her ALL her life. She was riding way before she was born. Her family; http://www.findonvillage.com/0557_the_josh_gifford_fact_file.htm (http://www.findonvillage.com/0557_the_josh_gifford_fact_file.htm)
Eventing prospects would have been falling out of the sky around her.

SpottedCat
Aug. 6, 2011, 06:36 PM
There just was a post today on EN about Tina Cooke. She said she has produced EVERY horse she has competed at advanced herself. That's phenomenal. Maybe Nina should take a leaf out of the current European Champion's book.....

That's just not accurate though! http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=57572

mugsgame
Aug. 6, 2011, 06:39 PM
Also to add that Tina's mother competed at 4* level - it makes life just a little bit easier if your mother can find suitable ponies and horses to educate you on earlier in your life from the age of 2 years old and she also got to live with her trainer for free!!

flutie1
Aug. 6, 2011, 06:42 PM
Also to add that Tina's mother competed at 4* level - it makes life just a little bit easier if your mother can find suitable ponies and horses to educate you on earlier in your life from the age of 2 years old and she also got to live with her trainer for free!!

But isn't that exactly what Nina's mother is doing - finding suitable horses for her daughter to lesrn on?

WishIWereRiding
Aug. 6, 2011, 07:12 PM
Why do you all care so much? I for one am envious that she has such great opportunities. She's obviously an ambitious young girl who is bright too! Good for her to be so dedicated and follow her dream.

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2011, 07:31 PM
But isn't that exactly what Nina's mother is doing - finding suitable horses for her daughter to lesrn on?

What I think people are trying to say is that Mom is buying horses for her to get to the Olympics on, when she should be buying horses for her to learn on.

Xctrygirl
Aug. 6, 2011, 07:40 PM
I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure that all horses help you to learn something. And schoolmasters and horses with extensive training and show records are useful for riders who have a solid base of the mid to upper level basics, to go ride, compete and learn more on. An OTTB 4 yr old would be useful once the rider has the whole "how to train a horse" skillset down. That comes from time too. Nina's goals include getting solid at the 3-4* level. To do that you need partners already there, or getting close.

Sorry but buying a CANTER horse would not help her achieve this goal. And so wisely they're buying the right horses (And wow some nice ones) to get closer to what they want to accomplish. I said it before and I'll say it again. Buying isn't the end of the deal. There are no guarantees that once she buys Butts Leon that 1.) He'll stay sound. 2.) They'll mesh well together 3.) That she will win every event she enters.

I would say she has a tough task to take all these horses with proven track records with far more accomplshed riders and try to equal or better them. But thankfully thats not what she's doing. Nina has stated publically that the results earned with Andreas are not a guarantee of what results she and the horse will produce. And good on her for being smart about it.

~Emily

flutie1
Aug. 6, 2011, 08:34 PM
What I think people are trying to say is that Mom is buying horses for her to get to the Olympics on, when she should be buying horses for her to learn on.

That makes absolutely no sense. How in Hell does anyone except Mrs Ligon know why the horses are being bought - and i can't think of a better way for Nina to learn than with that string of ponies. I'll be cheering for her all the way!

linquest
Aug. 7, 2011, 03:08 PM
Just because she's getting Advance horses bought for her doesn't mean that she's also not learning how to bring a horse up through the levels. Looks like she's brought this young horse up from Training to Intermediate.
http://www.ninaligon.com/Site/Chai.html

She's just lucky that she's got BOTH opportunities to learn on already advanced horses as well as learning how to bring one along.

And really, people are complaining about how her own PARENTS are buying her horses! How silly. That would take like 99.9% of kids out of competition!

Equibrit
Aug. 7, 2011, 03:12 PM
Also to add that Tina's mother competed at 4*


She was a show jumper.

GingerJumper
Aug. 7, 2011, 03:14 PM
Why the heck are we still on this?!?! *headdesk* It seems like every time I check the eventing forum, this is at the top of the threads... Newsflash, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO AGREE ON NINA, AND IT'S NOT REALLY OUR BUSINESS WHAT SHE'S CHOOSING TO DO! Sheeeeeeesh.

Sorry, just had to throw that out there, I was fixin' to explode. Carry on.

Carol Ames
Aug. 7, 2011, 10:54 PM
the story of the Irishman is a rather sad/ unfortunate one, pm me and I’ll tell you ; apparently Rodney Powell thought he would be used as a young rider;) horse; for Buck, perhaps(?) butBD decided to try and ride him himself; that did NOT work out; the details are most unfortunate; I don't believe he had even one start

I just remembered Wilton fair;), David Ocs’' first advanced horse who, had come from Mark Todd:yes:, with an impressive record;)

useventers
Aug. 8, 2011, 05:53 PM
I just remembered Wilton fair;), David Ocs’' first advanced horse who, had come from Mark Todd:yes:, with an impressive record;)

Actually Wilton Fair came to the U.S. via Matt Firestone along with Mr. Maxwell, Private Placement and few other high power horses.

This is a good example of someone having the BEST horses in the world and the BEST coaches (Karen & David) and he couldn't ride any of them. In fact when they were sold they had to be patiently re-started over fences, most of them were scared to death. Just shows it takes more than buying high power horses to ride at the upper levels!

flutie1
Aug. 8, 2011, 07:57 PM
This is a good example of someone having the BEST horses in the world and the BEST coaches (Karen & David) and he couldn't ride any of them. In fact when they were sold they had to be patiently re-started over fences, most of them were scared to death. Just shows it takes more than buying high power horses to ride at the upper levels!

Exactly!

magnolia73
Aug. 9, 2011, 08:42 AM
I think if we want Olympic golds, these are the kinds of riders we need to cheer on- self funded, with the passion to keep at it.

It's an awesome skill to make up horses, and should help pay the bills. It doesn't necessarily win medals. Also, you know who makes it so those scrappy hardworking riders of hard horses don't have to bag groceries at the Food Lion- the nice, wealthy self funded riders.

The expense of this sport is no joke. Making a living at it and competing internationally is not going to be a doable plan for a whole lot of people. Heck, one of our WEG riders spoke out about how challenging it was to keep his business running while he represented the US. And his wife knows horses....

So here is a good rider, putting in the work, who will likely keep on improving, and better yet, has the money to own and support more than one quality horse. She can travel and not worry about keeping customers happy. She can devote herself to learning to be competitive internationally, while not worrying about training horses or paying bills. Could she round herself out with some young prospects? Of course.

As long as she is safe on course, and takes good care of her horses, what does it matter?

Carol Ames
Aug. 11, 2011, 10:35 PM
How very true!it takes more than buying high power horses to ride at the upper levels![/quote]




WEll said!
Actually Wilton Fair came to the U.S. via Matt Firestone along with Mr. Maxwell, Private Placement and few other high power horses.

This is a good example of someone having the BEST horses in the world and the BEST coaches (Karen & David) and he couldn't ride any of them. In fact when they were sold they had to be patiently re-started over fences, most of them were scared to death. Just shows it takes more than buying high power horses to ride at the upper levels!

atheventer85
Aug. 14, 2011, 12:08 AM
If she has 7 horses, what's the need in running them into the ground? Paddy just ran a CCI3* not even 2 weeks ago, and he's entered to run the advanced HT at Five Points in less than a month. ABSURD.