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Auburn
Jul. 28, 2011, 09:08 AM
Instead of hashing and re-hashing whether a horse sculpture should have been in a SJ arena, I believe that we should be more concerned about the fact that there are only 49 eventers at the NAJYRC's this year.

Area8 does not have one rider there this year, even on a combined team! :no:

Is the YR program broken?

Why the decline in the number of eventers participating this year?

Has the tenure of CMP caused the decline?

Does anyone even care?

Divine Comedy
Jul. 28, 2011, 09:11 AM
Well, Area V sent 8 riders (5 * and 3 ** riders), which is the most we've sent in a long time, so we're doing our part!

I'm really proud of all our Area V YRs, they've all done a fantastic job to get there! And they picked fantastic jog outfits, one of our one star riders is the featured photo on the USEA website right now. :)

Jazzy Lady
Jul. 28, 2011, 09:33 AM
Ontario sent the most we've sent in a while. 2** and a full team and individuals to the 1*.

I think we've got a really good chance aswell! Go Ontario 1* and Canada 2**!

CallMeGrace
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:01 AM
I was disappointed to see no Area VIII. Where are you all??

Carried Away
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:04 AM
I just posted a similar question on EN...was wondering the same thing. This year Area IV doesn't have a full team at either level, and in years past there has been major competition to make the teams. Is it harder to qualify now or do the YR's just not care anymore?

TheAveJoe
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:13 AM
One of my friends took her daughter to compete this year, and just the cost alone was well over $5000, so this may play a factor if parents send there child or not, some family's just can't afford that right now. This might be one factor why there aren't full teams.

wsmoak
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:16 AM
Is it harder to qualify now or do the YR's just not care anymore?

... or are their parents less able to pay for it now?

Carried Away
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:28 AM
I thought about that...but honestly, many of the YR's from my area are out competing every weekend, several on more than 1 horse, so I don't think $$ is the issue for them.

SLR
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:40 AM
Not as a complaint, in other words, don't want to hear about all the rich kids born with siver spoons in their mouths, or how their parents can buy them the expensive horses,(whew) but it is a very expensive proposition. The year we went to CO it was every bit of 10k to get it done.
The qualifications are hard to get, but I don't think they should be changed, because it would lose its importance of being an FEI Championship.
Then you have to be able to present a sound horse. And a lot of them don't get that far.
As far as Area Viii, there was only one kid qualified for the 2*, I believe there were a few qualified for the 1* but for whatever reason did not apply.

Kairoshorses
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:47 AM
Well, Area V sent 8 riders (5 * and 3 ** riders), which is the most we've sent in a long time, so we're doing our part!

I'm really proud of all our Area V YRs, they've all done a fantastic job to get there! And they picked fantastic jog outfits, one of our one star riders is the featured photo on the USEA website right now. :)

AND the photo is by one of our former young riders whose horse is laid up, but who is still there helping his team. Go Area V! :D

PhoenixFarm
Jul. 28, 2011, 11:28 AM
I think there are a couple of reasons:

1) There has always been a natural ebb and flow in NAYJRC numbers. SOme years there have been close to a 100, others with more like 30. That may simply be the case now.

2) Money. Not just from the parents, though that is certainly a factor, but also within the area itself. A lot of fundraising is done to help defray the costs, and fundraising for ANY cause is tough this year.

3) (warning, soapbox time) when they turned the * in to a junior competition, IOW 18 and under only, they really took the legs out from under this championships, and turned it in to a competition which is comprised mainly (unless you are just incredibly lucky) of trainers kids and rich kids. It used to be a sixteen or 17 year old kid could buy a nice young horse or OTTB and with help from a good trainer, could be running at the * star before they aged out at 21.

These days you almost have to have a going horse to make the time cut offs. IOW if you are 15 who has only gone novice and want to do the * you're going to need a horse going at least training, if not preferably prelim. If you are 17 and only going Novice, or even Training, you need a ** schoolmaster.

The exception to this is trainers kids, but largely because of the access they have to horses, and the fact they probably were riding and competing earlier in their lives than the average civilian kid.

(Now, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying here, these kids at the championships are all admirable, hard working kids who have really accomplished something awesome. I'm not saying these kids aren't deserving, but I am saying that we aged and priced a lot of people out of this game).

4) and Finally, I think the age of the barn rat is passed. I have a couple good teenagers in my barn. Dedicated riders, who come every day to see, ride, or care for their horse. But not a single one of them is here any longer than necessary to accomplish their tasks and duties with their horse for the day. None of them has ever asked if there were extra rides to pick up. That's because in addition to the riding, this summer alone they are (among the three of them): attending summer school, doing an internship, getting certified as a rescue diver, playing softball, soccer, and basketball in "summer league" in prep for their regular high school sports, and working.

Given this, all of these kids and their parents have decided they are not interested in pursuing YR in terms of NAYJRC. They don't want to spend the money, and to them riding is just one of many activities. They love it, they are dedicated, but they are not willing to give up all the other activities to dedicate all that time and energy to riding.

Good luck to all the kids competing this year!

Divine Comedy
Jul. 28, 2011, 11:50 AM
These days you almost have to have a going horse to make the time cut offs. IOW if you are 15 who has only gone novice and want to do the * you're going to need a horse going at least training, if not preferably prelim. If you are 17 and only going Novice, or even Training, you need a ** schoolmaster.

The exception to this is trainers kids, but largely because of the access they have to horses, and the fact they probably were riding and competing earlier in their lives than the average civilian kid.

(Now, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying here, these kids at the championships are all admirable, hard working kids who have really accomplished something awesome. I'm not saying these kids aren't deserving, but I am saying that we aged and priced a lot of people out of this game).


This is very well said. I agree with your entire post, PhoenixFarm, but particularly this portion. These kids are INCREDIBLY hard working, and I would never hold it against them (as others sometimes do) that they are able to purchase horses who have been there, done that.

But yeah, I would say this is generally true. There are exceptions for sure. Two of our two star riders this year are there on their 'young project' horses after their 'experienced pro' horses didn't work out. The 'young project' horses ended up stepping up to the plate and working out better than the 'experienced pro' horses. One of our one star riders purchased her horse when he had only done a single Training. Another one star rider is here on a new (to her), 'experienced pro' horse, but made the one star team last year with a horse she had bought off the track. These kids work really hard to be where they are, and I see no problem with them using their available resources to continue the learning process.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 28, 2011, 11:59 AM
Is there any talk of changing the age rule for the 1*? It does really seem to take out a lot of kids who might otherwise want to participate.

Divine Comedy
Jul. 28, 2011, 12:06 PM
Is there any talk of changing the age rule for the 1*? It does really seem to take out a lot of kids who might otherwise want to participate.

I think that it has been discussed and considered, but apparently the age thing applies across all of the disciplines and dressage/show jumping aren't interested in changing the age limit.

That's all I know about it.

GingerJumper
Jul. 28, 2011, 12:19 PM
I'm just not sure all the appeal is there for it any more... I mean, I have TONS of friends who could have qualified and stuff but didn't, opting for AEC's and USPC stuff instead. IMO, I'd opt for the AECs at Prelim or Intermediate instead. It's not an FEI championship, but it's still a championship.

Babble
Jul. 28, 2011, 12:19 PM
BFNE, in answer to your question....

At the Area I annual meeting two years ago (Jan. 2010) Kevin Baumgartner and Malcom Hook attended to field questions from the Area I membership. I asked this question of them, as the previous fall, an online petition went around and gained many signatures supporting changing the age cut-off back to 21 for the CCI*, but at the national annual meeting, the idea was turned down. This issue is somewhat near and dear to my heart, as I qualified for the CCI* the year the rule was changed, and I was 19.

The petition had specifically asked that the USEA/USEF bring up the rule change proposal with the FEI, as ultimately, the age cut-off is an FEI decision. Malcom basically said that while everyone at the USEA prefers that the limit be moved back to 21, the USEF's hands are tied for a couple of reasons - the age limit brings it in line with European standards and the standards of the other disciplines at the NAJYRC (dressage and show jumping have had junior and YR division for a lot longer than eventing). He said that they already know that the FEI would turn down any request to change it. I appreciated his answer, as he made it clear that the PTB did not like the rule either.

It is unfortunate that this is the case, as I feel very strongly that the rule edges out a lot of talented and hard working young riders who just take a little longer to peak - especially in a time where safety is of the utmost importance, I see no reason to have a rule in place where it potentially pushes juniors to move up the ranks faster than they should. And please, don't misunderstand me, I think that all of the juniors and young riders that are competing this weekend are capable, talented, hard working, and deserve to be there, I just think that the the new age rule potentially sends to wrong message.

SLR
Jul. 28, 2011, 12:44 PM
Babble, please correct me if I am incorrect, but wasn't the 18-21 CCI* run as a non-championship?
I know when it was held in VA 2005 or 2006 the 14-18 CCI* and the 16-21 CCI** were Championships, but there was a non championship CCI* for those over 18. IIRC it was run as a long format.

ltmac
Jul. 28, 2011, 01:37 PM
Sad to see no one from Area VIII! Good luck to all competitors, wish I could be there to support my friends!

Babble
Jul. 28, 2011, 01:46 PM
SLR, that change happened, if I remember correctly, in 2005. So you are right, but that three-division format only happened for a couple of years at most. Up until then, both the CCI* and CCI** divisions were long-format and open to under 21 year olds. I think that Brian and Penny Ross, as great supporters of the long format, devised what you described to both keep the long format alive and try to accommodate older CCI* riders who were no longer eligible to compete when they organized the championships right after the rules were changed. The non-championship long format didn't didn't last too long, probably because of low interest and difficulty of running a long format three day (an all too familiar tune :( ).

secretariat
Jul. 28, 2011, 03:14 PM
RE: Phoenixfarm:
"4) and Finally, I think the age of the barn rat is passed."

Maybe in some areas, and maybe in the NUMBER of barn rats. But they're still around - I've got three of them, aged 27, 22, and 18!

And we've got a group of teenaged (and younger) kids who would never leave except their parents require it. They come (to help!) at 6:00 a.m. when allowed, they pitch in all day (riding and cleaning and grooming and whatever else needs to be done). They've stayed up all night helping with foaling. I'm convinced they'd move in tonight if permitted. Will they ever make it to NAYRC? Maybe, given the opportunity. Will they always love horses? Definitely. And, IMO, it's a wonderful way for them to grow up whether they ever set foot in a show ring or not.

I would suggest that, rather than fewer barn rats, there might be fewer opportunities due to insurance, liability concerns, and the continuing loss of riding land and facilities. We've received working student applications from 8 year olds!!

gchildean
Jul. 29, 2011, 03:15 PM
I have been YR coordinator for Area II for the last 5 years and the number of competitors is roughly the same now as it was when my term began in 2007.

PuraVidaEventing
Jul. 30, 2011, 11:46 AM
Ok...not exactly on topic with this thread but I'm getting desperate here...Anyone know what happened to Florence miller? I've been friends with her forever and the mr is worrying me! No ones texting me back, USEF USEA and EN have nothing...so COTHers....anyone know????

PuraVidaEventing
Jul. 30, 2011, 11:55 AM
Nevermind...all is well. Horse and rider are fine.

shea'smom
Jul. 30, 2011, 12:13 PM
What about Maddie and Peter from California? I met them at their B , and there was a rider fall. Anybody heard anything?

gchildean
Jul. 30, 2011, 01:04 PM
I believe she may have fallen at the corners but are ok.

shea'smom
Jul. 30, 2011, 02:34 PM
Thanks. She has a lovely older gentleman, glad to hear they are ok.

Carol Ames
Jul. 30, 2011, 02:53 PM
well said, indeed!:yes:
Will they ever make it to NAYRC? Maybe, given the opportunity. Will they always love horses? Definitely. And, IMO, it's a wonderful way for them to grow up whether they ever set foot in a show ring or not:cool:.

I would suggest that, rather than fewer barn rats, there might be fewer opportunities due to insurance, liability concerns, and the continuing loss of riding land and facilities. We've received working student applications from 8 year olds!! http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5745688)

Auburn
Jul. 30, 2011, 04:49 PM
My DH and I were the jump judges for the CCI ** at jumps 19 and 20. They were offset skinny cabins, which every rider rode very well. Kudos to all of those riders. :yes:

We were the jump judges for the CCI* for jump 16. One of the area stewards commented that the jump was straight forward and should not be a problem. Wrong. We had a RF, which could have been a rotational, if the horse had not been so clever. I believe that my DH said that the horse was an older horse. I am thankful that both the horse and rider seemed to be all right.

What was concerning to me was the rider of Coal Creek, who was galloping out of control and yelling "Help me!". Once she finally got him slowed down, she was asked to retire for safety issues.

Has Coal Creek always been a difficult ride?

Everyone was very lucky with the weather. It was mostly cloudy, so it did not got hot until just after cross country finished.

Yance
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:09 PM
What was concerning to me was the rider of Coal Creek, who was galloping out of control and yelling "Help me!". Once she finally got him slowed down, she was asked to retire for safety issues.

Has Coal Creek always been a difficult ride?

Seriously?

I noticed that at least two of the horses in the 2* which had to R due to being out of control, or had a RF, were veteran (with other riders) 2* or 3* horses. :confused:

Edit: the only two horses who had issues...

GingerJumper
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
What was concerning to me was the rider of Coal Creek, who was galloping out of control and yelling "Help me!". Once she finally got him slowed down, she was asked to retire for safety issues.


Not to judge his rider at all, getting to the NAJYRC's is a big accomplishment and obviously requires talent, but what good does yelling do, much less yelling for help?? In that type of situation, yelling only makes things drastically worse (unless perhaps you're saying "whoa" with a raised but calm voice). If you're riding at that level but have problems getting a runaway back, that's practically begging for disaster. Not saying flukes don't happen, but a rider at that level (or really any rider going XC) should have more tools in their toolbox than yelling, IMHO.

Auburn
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:24 PM
Yance,

I just checked the Y** scores on useventing. There was only one R, which was Coal Creek.

Were you a jump judge?

We could hear everything that was going on around the course on the walkie talkie's. There were no other horses who were asked to Retire, because of being out of control.

Besides, what I was asking was if Coal Creek is known to be a difficult ride?

TBCollector
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:25 PM
Not to judge his rider at all, getting to the NAJRYC's is a big accomplishment and obviously requires talent, but what good does yelling do, much less yelling for help?? In that type of situation, yelling only makes things drastically worse (unless perhaps you're saying "whoa" with a raised but calm voice). If you're riding at that level but have problems getting a runaway back, that's practically begging for disaster. Not saying flukes don't happen, but a rider at that level (or really any rider going XC) should have more tools in their toolbox than yelling, IMHO.

I assure you, Lizzie Snow has a well-stocked toolbox.
She has won two-stars on two different horses (Pop Star and CC). She also won intermediate with Sloopy when she was a junior in high school. She is one of the hardest working, most helpful, kindest, and HUMBLE young riders I know.
Most important, she's a canny, skillful rider. Her xc rides on CC have been dazzling...their issues have been in stadium. Wasn't there today and have no idea what happened, but whatever it was has NOT happened with them before...completely uncharacteristic of this pair.

Auburn
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:30 PM
TBCollector,

Thank you for answering my question and your polite reply. :)

Yance
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:31 PM
Yance,

I just checked the Y** scores on useventing. There was only one R, which was Coal Creek.

Were you a jump judge?

We could hear everything that was going on around the course on the walkie talkie's. There were no other horses who were asked to Retire, because of being out of control.

Besides, what I was asking was if Coal Creek is known to be a difficult ride?

Auburn,
Read what I wrote.

Had to R or had a RF.

GingerJumper
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:35 PM
I assure you, Lizzie Snow has a well-stocked toolbox.
She has won two-stars on two different horses (Pop Star and CC). She also won intermediate with Sloopy when she was a junior in high school. She is one of the hardest working, most helpful, kindest, and HUMBLE young riders I know.
Most important, she's a canny, skillful rider. Her xc rides on CC have been dazzling...their issues have been in stadium. Wasn't there today and have no idea what happened, but whatever it was has NOT happened with them before...completely uncharacteristic of this pair.

That's excellent to hear. Not having been there, I was just commenting on what that incident, to me, sounded like. Thanks for clearing it up, sorry she had a bad day, unfortunately it happens to everyone :no:

TBCollector
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:43 PM
That's excellent to hear. Not having been there, I was just commenting on what that incident, to me, sounded like. Thanks for clearing it up, sorry she had a bad day, unfortunately it happens to everyone :no:

Yeah, really a bummer, because they've been doing so well. I don't know if he's generally difficult; he is certainly much stronger than her previous horse. I did see him almost have a rotational with Stephen Bradley at Southern Pines a couple of years ago, but chalked that up to Stephen basically catch riding him for Amy (who was injured) and not knowing him very well (if at all).

Yance
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:45 PM
Yeah, really a bummer, because they've been doing so well. I don't know if he's generally difficult; he is certainly much stronger than her previous horse. I did see him almost have a rotational with Stephen Bradley at Southern Pines a couple of years ago, but chalked that up to Stephen basically catch riding him for Amy (who was injured) and not knowing him very well (if at all).

:no:

PuraVidaEventing
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:45 PM
Yeah Lizzie Snow is an amazing rider. CC can be a very difficult ride, and has run off with Amy once or twice I've heard. Yes, he is a well trained, talented, fantastic animal, but when he's fit and ready to go he can get difficult. She definitely has a well stocked toolbox :)

GingerJumper
Jul. 30, 2011, 05:52 PM
Yeah, really a bummer, because they've been doing so well. I don't know if he's generally difficult; he is certainly much stronger than her previous horse. I did see him almost have a rotational with Stephen Bradley at Southern Pines a couple of years ago, but chalked that up to Stephen basically catch riding him for Amy (who was injured) and not knowing him very well (if at all).

Eeeee gads... That could certainly be attributed to a strong horse.

That really is a shame for her though, hopefully he'll be back on his best behavior soon.

CookiePony
Jul. 30, 2011, 07:25 PM
Auburn,
Read what I wrote.

Had to R or had a RF.

Yance, Auburn is not the only one who finds your post vague and unclear. Care to spell out your meaning?

JER
Jul. 30, 2011, 08:58 PM
Yance, Auburn is not the only one who finds your post vague and unclear. Care to spell out your meaning?

Yance, as usual, is allowing the ginormous chip on her shoulder to speak louder than her words.

I'm sure her eyes lit up like Christmas when she saw those Rs and RFs.

ksbadger
Jul. 31, 2011, 12:59 AM
Getting back to the original poster's question, I know for Area IV (who only sent one YR rider) it was categorized by the YR Coordinator as "a rebuilding year". The majority of our YRs have aged out but are doing quite nicely thank you as ARs.

flutie1
Jul. 31, 2011, 11:25 AM
Yance, as usual, is allowing the ginormous chip on her shoulder to speak louder than her words.

I'm sure her eyes lit up like Christmas when she saw those Rs and RFs.

Good grief. Somebody took a snarky pill!

GingerJumper
Jul. 31, 2011, 11:41 AM
I don't think Yance said anything wrong, it just wasn't the type of answer the person asking the question was looking for (does CC tend to get strong, yes or no, example from the past).

KBG Eventer
Jul. 31, 2011, 11:56 AM
I don't think Yance said anything wrong, it just wasn't the type of answer the person asking the question was looking for (does CC tend to get strong, yes or no, example from the past).

Okay, I was really trying to bite my tongue, but I think what JER may be referring to is the fact that Yance seems to have quite a problem with two YRs in particular. He/she has mentioned their names on here rather recently. I have never seen either of these YRs in my life, but I'm getting sick of Yance slamming them all the time on here.

One of them is the RF mentioned in Yance's post. It was a vague way of bringing up the topic of one of the riders yet again.

JER
Jul. 31, 2011, 12:16 PM
Okay, I was really trying to bite my tongue, but I think what JER may be referring to is the fact that Yance seems to have quite a problem with two YRs in particular. He/she has mentioned their names on here rather recently. I have never seen either of these YRs in my life, but I'm getting sick of Yance slamming them all the time on here.

One of them is the RF mentioned in Yance's post. It was a vague way of bringing up the topic of one of the riders yet again.

Exactly. :)

GingerJumper
Jul. 31, 2011, 08:32 PM
Okay, I was really trying to bite my tongue, but I think what JER may be referring to is the fact that Yance seems to have quite a problem with two YRs in particular. He/she has mentioned their names on here rather recently. I have never seen either of these YRs in my life, but I'm getting sick of Yance slamming them all the time on here.

One of them is the RF mentioned in Yance's post. It was a vague way of bringing up the topic of one of the riders yet again.

Ahh gotcha. Yeah, I've seen Yance slam plenty of YR's before, just didn't heed the names or anything. It makes more sense from this context, thanks for clearing it up for me :)