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Delbert Paesano
Jul. 27, 2011, 12:46 AM
Anybody going? I wish I could go watch! If you are there, fill us in!!

atr
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:08 AM
Am rooting for a young friend of mine on the Region 5 team, Maddie Birch.

Results and ride times are on Foxvillage.com

atr
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:25 PM
Region 5 Gold, Canada Silver... :)

mjhco
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:36 PM
Junior Team results -- Gold Region1, Silver Region 5, Bronze Region 8

Good riding everyone.

Delbert Paesano
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:57 PM
Thanks! Anyone know the Young Rider team results?

JLR1
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:26 PM
Brandi Roenick of Region 5 had the high score of the day...yeah Region 5!

Here are the results:

http://www.foxvillage.com/FVDShowResults/(1npp5dybnpuaqfizqirwm045)/Class.aspx?sh=363&cl=2

Xpression
Jul. 28, 2011, 02:21 AM
Wooo Canadian girls!!

Commander Cody
Jul. 28, 2011, 08:03 AM
Anyone look at the scores from the judge at E? Whew! LIke she is watching a different test with some of them....

Go Region 1!!

Ginger
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:07 AM
Two good articles by Lendon Gray from Dressage News:

http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=12047
http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=12100

Will be really hot today. Best wishes to everyone.

Sister Margarita
Jul. 28, 2011, 02:20 PM
Wow, the safety hat decision. What is that about?
I don't see where the 'bling' thing was as important as the rider's wisely using a safety hat.

Maybe there is a little flash in that hat, but we are not talking sequin shirts or overly colorful saddlepads. Was that not drawing a line on the opposite side of a safety helmet on a young person? Seems to lack common sense and sends a weird message, that a conservative top hat with no safety value is a better choice than a safety helmet with a stip of sparkle. I think a better plan would have been to issue a warning, let the rider use the safety helmet with the provision that she use a less decorated helmet in the future. I think the admonishment would be a sufficient deterent to the rider in question in the future and message to all the young riders.

And did I read this happened at the entry gate? Why not make the change earlier in the warmup. That must have been hard for the rider to keep concentrating. Did the warmup area have a steward? Or was this a judgment issue on the part of another official? I understand the FEI/International standard and all that, it just seems to be an unfortunate gray area.

But then, I am not an international judge.

Xpression
Jul. 28, 2011, 02:58 PM
Anyone look at the scores from the judge at E? Whew! LIke she is watching a different test with some of them....

Go Region 1!!

I assume you mean the judge at E in the Junior ring?

AZ TD
Jul. 28, 2011, 03:54 PM
Wow, the safety hat decision. What is that about?
I don't see where the 'bling' thing was as important as the rider's wisely using a safety hat.

Maybe there is a little flash in that hat, but we are not talking sequin shirts or overly colorful saddlepads. Was that not drawing a line on the opposite side of a safety helmet on a young person? Seems to lack common sense and sends a weird message, that a conservative top hat with no safety value is a better choice than a safety helmet with a stip of sparkle. I think a better plan would have been to issue a warning, let the rider use the safety helmet with the provision that she use a less decorated helmet in the future. I think the admonishment would be a sufficient deterent to the rider in question in the future and message to all the young riders.

And did I read this happened at the entry gate? Why not make the change earlier in the warmup. That must have been hard for the rider to keep concentrating. Did the warmup area have a steward? Or was this a judgment issue on the part of another official? I understand the FEI/International standard and all that, it just seems to be an unfortunate gray area.

But then, I am not an international judge.

Wow! Fashion more important than safety. The liability if something had happened is frightening!
Theresa

Commander Cody
Jul. 28, 2011, 07:21 PM
Yes at E in the Junior tests. I didn't look at all the scores from the YR tests.
I think Lendon commented on it in general terms in her blog.

The helmet thing makes me cringe. Imagine the liability issues had she fallen and been hurt. I know, not likely but still...And the message is a terrible one. Heck, put black duct tape over the bling.

luv2ride113
Jul. 28, 2011, 09:46 PM
I was left speechless after reading about the rider who was asked to remove her helmet because it had too much bling. Does anyone know what type of helmet she was wearing? I was hoping to buy a Samshield with the bling bling strip. I find it hard to believe that judges would find the bling too distracting. What about the jeweled brow bands that are so popular now? More important, how could a rider be asked to compromise her safety by removing her helmet and replacing it with a top hat? Am I the only one who feels that decision could have had life altering consequences? I don't post often on COTH because I feel like less than a newbie, but even I don't think this was a good decision by the judge. It's all the more upsetting after seeing CKD's helmet safety video.

Sister Margarita
Jul. 28, 2011, 10:34 PM
Really crazy decision. I don't get it. Especially with Young Riders and Juniors, is there not a message of 'Safety First'? Isn't that a huge message over the past couple of years? A strip of bling is cause to forego a helmet in favor of a top hat? All this when the riders were wearing polo shirts. That was a safety-over-tradition decision, was it not? I hope this comes up for discussion, so that these riders know in the future how to prepare. Especially in view of the changes in helmet rules over the last year or two, I would think the judges could make a better call and just issue a verbal warning if need be. :confused:

Applecore
Jul. 29, 2011, 12:42 AM
There's a picture of the offending helmet at the bottom of this article: http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=12090

In my opinion, that is way too much bling (especially the pink version). However, I can't imagine asking a rider to take off an approved helmet for a top hat. I agree with the poster above who suggested that perhaps a 'don't wear this again' warning could have been given instead.

I think the Jr/YRs are setting a standard - I haven't seen a single picture of someone not wearing an approved hat! Go kids! Also, I think it is so so so great to force riders to wear a polo shirt and forbid jackets. I wish this could become the standard for hot summer shows! The dark polos, helmets and white breeches actually look really nice and workmanlike to me. I hate wearing all white (uuugly) and usually force myself into a jacket for 10 min. If dark polos were a routine option, I'd definitely take it.

Xpression
Jul. 29, 2011, 01:49 AM
I 100% agree with the helmets, but under 18's also aren't ALLOWED to wear anything but top hats. So that could be contributing to the lack of top hats, seeing as how even the gold and silver Young Rider medalists are only 16 years old.

dutchfan
Jul. 29, 2011, 04:26 AM
I 100% agree with the helmets, but under 18's also aren't ALLOWED to wear anything but top hats. So that could be contributing to the lack of top hats, seeing as how even the gold and silver Young Rider medalists are only 16 years old.
None of this post makes any sense.

Ghazzu
Jul. 29, 2011, 01:43 PM
I don't read this as the rider being required to wear a top hat.
I read it as being required to wear headgear without bling.

The circumstance that the rider did not have a plain helmet is not the fault of management.

DownYonder
Jul. 29, 2011, 01:46 PM
I believe the info regarding the helmet issue came originally from Lendon Gray, who misunderstood the TD regarding this incident. Lendon has amended her statement per dressage-news.com :

"First of all let me clean up a mistake I apparently made yesterday. When I spoke to the TD I understood that the rider with bling on her helmet was told she was not allowed to wear it and, therefore, would have to wear her top hat. I guess I misunderstood. Apparently she was not told she HAD to wear her top hat, but that wearing so much bling wasn’t a good idea. Today this rider rode with a helmet with a bit less blingy bling."

Full story at http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=12123.

BetterOffRed
Jul. 29, 2011, 01:52 PM
I looked at the GPA in questions, and compared them to some of the helmets worn by the European Pony Riders (www.eurodressage.com). Half of the Danish team had silver strips on their helmets and the French team had Red/White/Blue striped helmets (similar to the GP jumpers are wearing). How is THAT any less flashy? An O-level judge and TD should be consistent with her international peers.

Luckily, nothing happened to the rider and hopefully, it didn't shake her up so much that it altered her ability to ride to the best of her ability.

Delbert Paesano
Jul. 29, 2011, 01:56 PM
I guess I don't understand why anyone would think that a helmet with a strip of pure rhinestones is appropriate for the show ring. My trainer would say that is fine for home, but absolutley not for the show ring. Yes things are getting more modern, with jeweled browbands etc, but this is still a sport based in tradition.

BetterOffRed
Jul. 29, 2011, 02:08 PM
I guess I don't understand why anyone would think that a helmet with a strip of pure rhinestones is appropriate for the show ring. My trainer would say that is fine for home, but absolutley not for the show ring. Yes things are getting more modern, with jeweled browbands etc, but this is still a sport based in tradition.

The sport should be allowed to evolve, riders to express their personality. It doesn't affect the movement or the performance of the horse.

Secondly, there should be consistency across the FEI- why are the European pony riders allowed more colorful helmets and the GP riders are allowed to wear brown, grey, purple coats, or orange or red collars?

SevenDogs
Jul. 29, 2011, 02:19 PM
There is discussion online that there is no rule specifically prohibiting helmet adornment, such as the helmets presented by the subject rider. Is this true?

*IF* these helmets are truly prohibited, where was this rider's coach and/or chef?

If there is no rule prohibiting this type of helmet, than this TD should be severely sanctioned. Her job is to KNOW THE RULES. Not only did her actions create a safety issue and send a BAD message (even though the TD did not specifically ask the rider to use a top hap, her actions led to that outcome), she created a HUGE liability for several organizations, had their been an accident.

I am not a fan of "bling strips". However, I am really not a fan of head injuries! Priorities, priorities, priorities.

BetterOffRed
Jul. 29, 2011, 02:31 PM
I belief the FEI dresscode rule change applies at NAYRC. Let me know if you can make helmets or tails out of this
http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/DISCIPLINES/DRESSAGE/Rules/Art_427_dress_colours.doc


Remarks
- Buttons are according to scale, except: gold, silver, brons, nickel
- Piping is allowed in one contrasting colour at collar, manchettes and gilette.
- Contrasting lining is allowed also prints in the lining. It has to be in scale
- Blouse with standing collar or turtleneck shirt should be white, off-white or colour according to scale.
- Plastron shoulde be white, off-white or colour according to scale.
- Breeches should be white or off-white.
- Gloves should be white, off-white or colour according to scale.
- Riding boots should be black or have a colour according to scale.
- Hats should be black or have a colour according to scale.

Scale
Every colour which has a Value for ‘V’ smaller then 32%, according the HSV colour model, will be aloud. Saturation and hue can be everything, as long the value will not be bigger then 32%.
For Grand Prix Freestyle only, any single colour tailcoat will be allowed. Striped or multi-coloured coats are not permitted. Tasteful and discreet accents, such as a collar of a different hue or modest piping or crystal decorations, are acceptable.

SevenDogs
Jul. 29, 2011, 02:48 PM
I belief the FEI dresscode rule change applies at NAYRC. Let me know if you can make helmets or tails out of this
http://www.fei.org/sites/default/files/file/DISCIPLINES/DRESSAGE/Rules/Art_427_dress_colours.doc

... Um, .... wow... clear as mud. I have no idea what the heck that actually means! I do think it is safe to say that there is some sort of provision that allows other than solid black.

Ghazzu
Jul. 29, 2011, 03:04 PM
Oh, c,mon, folks.
It doesn't specifically say "no feathers", but you wouldn't try wearing a medieval style helmet with a crest, would you?

SevenDogs
Jul. 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
Oh, c,mon, folks.
It doesn't specifically say "no feathers", but you wouldn't try wearing a medieval style helmet with a crest, would you?

I am beyond traditional in dress. I school in a black GPA (no bling), but change to a traditional velvet for competition. I think the bling helmet is ugly and not terribly appropriate.

However, a TD's job is to help enforce the rules -- not make up new ones or inflict her own preferences. If the helmet is shown to be legal, she should be sanctioned. I also agree that (if it is illegal), it should have been caught earlier and/or allowed to continue with a warning not to ride in it again. Safety should prevail.

Xpression
Jul. 29, 2011, 03:14 PM
None of this post makes any sense.

Everyone is saying, "well done for the Junior's for choosing to ride in helmet's in stead of top hats!"

While technically, Rider's under the age of 18 AREN'T ALLOWED to ride in anything but an ASTM/SEI approved helmet. So it's not exactly a choice.

In the past, we usually saw the Juniors riding in helmets, and the Young Rider's riding in top hats... But even the Young Rider's are under 18, so NO TOP HATS.

Clear enough for you?

Back on topic: The pink bling on the helmet is way too over the top, but I don't have a problem with the other one.
As long as they don't start coming out with blinged out top hats... Then we could just add some jazz hands and have a loverly circus performance!

dutchfan
Jul. 29, 2011, 04:50 PM
Xpression - this is what your post said that didn't make sense to me:

"under 18's also aren't ALLOWED to wear anything but top hats"

Applecore
Jul. 29, 2011, 04:58 PM
Everyone is saying, "well done for the Junior's for choosing to ride in helmet's in stead of top hats!"

While technically, Rider's under the age of 18 AREN'T ALLOWED to ride in anything but an ASTM/SEI approved helmet. So it's not exactly a choice.

In the past, we usually saw the Juniors riding in helmets, and the Young Rider's riding in top hats... But even the Young Rider's are under 18, so NO TOP HATS.

Clear enough for you?


I believe since this is a CDI competition, FEI rules take precedence over USEF rules and both Jr and YRs would be allowed to wear top hats.

From helmet rule<<In FEI-recognized (CDI, CDI-Y, CDI-J, CDI-P, etc.) classes, FEI rules take precedence and protective headgear is permitted but not required. >>

Also young riders run from 16-21, and in my experience a majority of them are over 18, although there certainly are some between 16-18. They are allowed to ride in top hats at USEF shows and FEI shows, but I haven't seen any pictures of them electing to do so at NAJYRC. I think the 'in' thing right now in the Jr/YR ranks is to be safe and wear a helmet - and I think that's awesome. I also think having all this pictures of the top Jr/YRs in the country wearing helmets at a major competition will help make helmets a little 'cooler' for all the kids (and maybe even some adults) back home. So I still say good for them! :D

Sister Margarita
Jul. 29, 2011, 05:23 PM
Regarding FEI rules, is there a rule regarding polo shirts (which I agree were safer in the heat)? I believe adjustments were made for the safety of the riders on this.

I think the polo shirts looked great, but as long as we are interpreting rules for the well-being of the riders in the case of extreme heat, shouldn't licensed officials also do the same in the case of bling on a SAFETY helmet?

What did the officials do when the helmet switch was made? Did they see the safety factor had changed?

I think a very conflicting message was sent.

A very strong warning would have been extremely effective, and would have spread through the barns quickly, but the rider would not have compromised on safety. For goodness sake, duct tape could have fixed the situation if called sooner in the warm-up.

I know everyone does their best to make the right calls, but safety should be right up there in priorities.

Eggplant_Dressing
Jul. 29, 2011, 05:30 PM
Have been cheering for a friend's daughter from Texas. It is exciting to cheer her on if only from a distance.

Delbert Paesano
Jul. 29, 2011, 05:54 PM
The sport should be allowed to evolve, riders to express their personality. It doesn't affect the movement or the performance of the horse.

Secondly, there should be consistency across the FEI- why are the European pony riders allowed more colorful helmets and the GP riders are allowed to wear brown, grey, purple coats, or orange or red collars?

I guess what I mean is, it's about respect for the sport and the show ring. Conservative is safe and at such a big show, it's not worth the risk of offending someone.
Plus, Europeans wear all kinds of colorful/funky stuff that has not yet been accepted in the US, and not just in horse fashion! They are way ahead of us in the fashion industry!!

Xpression
Jul. 29, 2011, 10:18 PM
Xpression - this is what your post said that didn't make sense to me:

"under 18's also aren't ALLOWED to wear anything but top hats"

Oh! Haha! I'm so sorry, it made perfect sense in my head... and came out like braille.

OdhinnsMom
Jul. 29, 2011, 11:08 PM
I am not sure what the rational for the polo's was, but I am not so sure that it was for the safety of the riders. The jumpers, who competed yesterday right after dressage was finished (and today) were REQUIRED to wear jackets. I am not sure why one discipline was not allowed to wear them, and another was required. I am sure there is an answer, but it was very, very hot here yesterday.

I was also at the Raleigh CDI in June, and saw a rider in a YR qualifying test wear an identical helmet (could have been the same rider!) in several rides - so obviously it was allowed there. It should be pretty clear whether it is legal or not, so if it is not legal, it should have also been caught in the shows leading up to this competition!

Mardi
Jul. 30, 2011, 01:49 AM
I don't read this as the rider being required to wear a top hat.
I read it as being required to wear headgear without bling.

The circumstance that the rider did not have a plain helmet is not the fault of management.

Exactly.

Mardi
Jul. 30, 2011, 01:55 AM
I was also at the Raleigh CDI in June, and saw a rider in a YR qualifying test wear an identical helmet (could have been the same rider!) in several rides - so obviously it was allowed there. It should be pretty clear whether it is legal or not, so if it is not legal, it should have also been caught in the shows leading up to this competition!

Yes but unfortunately it happens that what is allowed or ignored at one show is not allowed at another. That goes for judging too ! :)

Oberon13
Jul. 30, 2011, 10:37 AM
There are several (if not many) of the YRs who are over 18, so the age doesn't necessarily make a difference.

Interesting that the same YR in question was able to find a helmet that was appropriate for the following day. I'm sure she was flustered at the in-gate (seeing as she was stopped on the ramp leading to the arena) and wasn't able to get the "less-blingy" helmet, but it would be a good idea to have it on hand. I wonder if her coach/chef had had any doubts about the helmet or had said anything about it to her.

Mardi
Jul. 31, 2011, 01:47 AM
The sport should be allowed to evolve, riders to express their personality.

A pink rhinestone studded helmet has nothing to do with the evolution of the sport of dressage.

Risk-Averse Rider
Jul. 31, 2011, 11:09 AM
A pink rhinestone studded helmet has nothing to do with the evolution of the sport of dressage.Agreed.

As for the rhinestone tophat, what about these?

http://topsyturvydesign.com/catalog.php?item=17&catid=5&ret=catalog.php%3Fcategory%3D5

Isabeau Z Solace
Jul. 31, 2011, 01:45 PM
"Riding in polo shirts. Riders were told in advance that they would not be allowed to ride with coats (I remember in Illinois when coats were waived and riders still rode with coats and too many passed out). The management had to get special permission from the FEI!?! All riders wore polo shirts, usually with their team insignia. For me the nicest looking were those with dark blue ones. Some also wore very nice looking cooling vests. They looked very professional and neat. Is there really a good reason why riders still have to wear black coats? Yes, tradition is great, but maybe it’s time to consider modernizing."


Quoting Lendon for the record (bolding mine.)

tm
Jul. 31, 2011, 02:56 PM
I've been saying this for years. The jackets that we all wear originated in cooler climates, and no matter how high-tech the fabrics, are not appropriate for athletes competing in high temperatures.

I would, however, still like to see a summer outfit that looks a little more finished that a polo shirt, such as a tailored vest (with or without cooling properties). While this is now a legal outfit for USEF competitions, it is not approved by the FEI, under whose rules the NAJYRC is held.

FEI folk, are you listening? Have you been outside recently? I was just in two shows in Europe a few weeks ago. The one in Ponte de Lima, Portugal had temperatures over 100 degrees, and even climate-friendly Pompadour was over 90 on the last day.... So this is not just an "American" issue.

Weatherford
Sep. 8, 2011, 12:13 PM
It would have been easier for the rider to just use a hat cover...