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enjoytheride
Jul. 26, 2011, 05:25 PM
I've been watching this mare's sales ad. She's now free to a good home after an accident at the trainers. Not sure about any details but she might be a good catch for someone after a vet check and a new program.

I think she's been a bit spoiled at home which may have contributed to the issue at the trainer.

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1659469

EventStrong
Jul. 26, 2011, 08:47 PM
Sounds like the concussion has really done some damage, who knows how long term that will be. It could take years to really recover from a brain injury, and possibly never.

Also, not really the Trakehner pedigree for an eventer that I'd be looking for. Definitely dressage lines, with the possible exception of the TB on the dam side(I'm not familiar enough with TB lines to say).

Nice horse, it's a shame she's been injured, but I don't see her as an eventer beyond the lower levels even if she fully recovers.

Far_North_Equestrian
Jul. 26, 2011, 08:49 PM
I'd want more details on the "accident" but I do agree that with some downtime she might be worth picking up.

the wording of the ad screams to me: I created this pushy, bad mare by badly using Parelli, and then I sent her to the local cowboy to be "fixed".

Fractious Fox
Jul. 26, 2011, 09:46 PM
the wording of the ad screams to me: I created this pushy, bad mare by badly using Parelli, and then I sent her to the local cowboy to be "fixed".

I agree. After reading the ad I totally interpreted that this poor horse is the victim/product of some stupid "natural horsemanship" and the bad sort of "cowboy training".

GingerJumper
Jul. 26, 2011, 09:53 PM
I wouldn't touch her, to be honest. She has a funky looking eye in the picture, and the "natural horsemanship" then "went over backwards and got a concussion" factors would keep me far, far away from her. A horse that flips is not only a danger to itself, as this mare proved, but to her handlers and anyone else around her. Steer clear.

Foxtrot's
Jul. 26, 2011, 10:27 PM
Too bad - what did they want for her in the beginning? The sub-text is interesting - maybe along the lines as suggested above - and reading between the lines she's badly hurt and the owner needs to dump her. Her temperament was a 7 on a scale of 1-10. Who's breeding these days anyway.

KC058
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:54 AM
I would run from that horse. Crazy look in the eye, history of flipping over.. I would NEVER breed her...

Whoever was 'breaking' her obviously wasn't using a method that worked for this horse, hence the flipping over and brain damage. Sounds like the kind of horse that could kill someone or itself.

This horse sounds like a hot mess due to some incorrect training. Stinks- she was probably just a sensitive mare that needed a confident and classical approach.

I have seen some cowboy training that really disturbed me, and some that worked. Some cowboy's try to completely dominate and break spirit. I have brought along young horses to their first ride and would never engage in many of the practices I've seen others do.

This mare may have emotional scars that will never heal..

Mkelle11
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:01 AM
For what it's worth, I wouldn't take on the mare unless you could afford a pasture ornament if she never recovers or proves to be a nutcase. If you can do that, you go look at her and she's impressive (Not just nice), and have the training expertise to deal with some hard-set fear issues that she probably will have (Flipping over backwards so bad she had a concussion? Who knows what happened to her before that, but you could bet that there'll probably be a hard core fear response when she's ridden again for the first few times) then I'd actually try it.

I mostly just wanted to chime in to say that her bloodlines actually ARE decent for Eventing. Enrico Caruso is known for Dressage because of Totalias, but he also sired several Eventing stallions that were successful to Intermediate in the least.
Pavarotti : http://www.americantrakehner.com/stallions/pavarotti.asp http://www.fantasyfarm.net/breeding/morePicts.php?id=29 (Site says CIC**, would have to look at his show record to see if he's done anything recently)
Incantare: http://www.valhallatrakehner.com/stall.htm (He's about halfway down. Recieved a 9 for jumping at his inspections and is currently competing at Intermediate)

Betone was a Kostolany son(?) who evented, and it looks like Kostolany himself could jump. http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_gebkos.html
Still don't know anything about the Dam line, but felt like something should be said for Enrico Caruso's ability to sire something besides Dressage horses.

Beam Me Up
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:28 AM
No strong feelings on the horse/bloodlines, but it seems odd that they are already trying to rehome her 3 days after the accident, when it is probably too soon to know the amount of damage done, or the prognosis for recovery.

EventStrong
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:31 AM
I mostly just wanted to chime in to say that her bloodlines actually ARE decent for Eventing. Enrico Caruso is known for Dressage because of Totalias, but he also sired several Eventing stallions that were successful to Intermediate in the least.
Pavarotti : http://www.americantrakehner.com/stallions/pavarotti.asp http://www.fantasyfarm.net/breeding/morePicts.php?id=29 (Site says CIC**, would have to look at his show record to see if he's done anything recently)
Incantare: http://www.valhallatrakehner.com/stall.htm (He's about halfway down. Recieved a 9 for jumping at his inspections and is currently competing at Intermediate)

Betone was a Kostolany son(?) who evented, and it looks like Kostolany himself could jump. http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_gebkos.html
Still don't know anything about the Dam line, but felt like something should be said for Enrico Caruso's ability to sire something besides Dressage horses.

I'm not implying that Enrico Caruso CAN'T sire eventers, just that he typically produces horses that would be better in the dressage ring. That line has sired a lot of horses and there are few examples of upper level eventers in that mix. Once you factor in the rest of the pedigree, which is all dressage lines, I don't see a quality event prospect based on bloodlines.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:53 AM
No strong feelings on the horse/bloodlines, but it seems odd that they are already trying to rehome her 3 days after the accident, when it is probably too soon to know the amount of damage done, or the prognosis for recovery.


I think some of the posts here are a bit harsh...but I do wonder if she didn't have issues all along. First she is 6 and just getting started undersaddle. Then that clip job of the back makes me think there was some vet looking for back issues (unless it is just the video and my bad eyesight).

But otherwise...I've had at least one horse who flipped when getting started....and MORE than one (typically mares) who threw themselves on the ground when you were first training them.:eek: ALL turned out as lovely sport horses....The one that flipped is now running at the CCI** level with a non-pro rider (and is a very cool and fun horse to ride)...one of the mares competed up to 3rd level dressage and was thought to have the potential to be a GP horse by many top trainers before a pasture injury ended her competition career (she was also super fun to ride)...and the last one packed my butt up to Prelim and could go further (and is my favorite trail horse--the one I will put my mother on). Any one of these very VERY good competition horses could have hit wrong and done serious damage while being an opinionated youngster. All they have to do is hit wrong to get a concussion or do serious damage. It doesn't mean they are crazy or unsuitable....just not "easy" to start and needed to be in good hands who know how to help them move past those baby fits and learn to enjoy their jobs.

I hope that this mare finds a good home and a job she can do well.

Toadie's mom
Jul. 27, 2011, 03:55 PM
I'm kinda with BFNE. Who knows what the circumstance was that caused her to flip. I had a very well trained horse that got spooked while cross tied and flipped. He might not have gone completely over but he was on concrete and started scrambling and.....well it was awful.

I may be reading things into the video as well, but the owner looks pretty apprehensive to me. Someone who probably had no business with a green horse, realized it, sought help and s**t happened. Anyway, nice enough looking horse and I'd be curious to hear more detail.

goodmorning
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:19 PM
I'll third BFNE's response. I think some big 'assumptions' are being made about the rearing. Obviously not good, but she's a mare, who at the age of 6 was sent to be started? Who was the one to try & start her? Even a good horse can flip if provoked, which is easy to do with an opinionated mare & lack of experience on the trainer's behalf. Lots of 'what if's' and hard to lump all horses that have reared as ' bad seeds.'

Having said that, starting a 6yr old mare who has been hanging around eating isn't something I'd sign up to do ;) Particularly if she already has her owners number.

netg
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:50 PM
Having said that, starting a 6yr old mare who has been hanging around eating isn't something I'd sign up to do ;) Particularly if she already has her owners number.

Typically I'd think that... but I have a friend who just started an 8 year old broodmare with the best mind anyone has ever heard of. She was doing groundwork one day and just decided to hop up - she has started enough horses, she could just tell this mare simply wouldn't care. And the mare was given to her as too hard to train. Just a sensitive mare who wanted a job and wasn't with the right owner.


If I were up in the area I'd look into this horse. Even if it were that the horse is going to have problems and deserves to be humanely euthanized. I didn't like her training but liked her in the video.

jenm
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:18 PM
I wouldn't touch her, to be honest. She has a funky looking eye in the picture, and the "natural horsemanship" then "went over backwards and got a concussion" factors would keep me far, far away from her. A horse that flips is not only a danger to itself, as this mare proved, but to her handlers and anyone else around her. Steer clear.

The look in her eye in the picture looks like one of fear and mistrust. If you look at the earlier videos, she has a much softer eye.

As others have posted, there are many reasons why she could have flipped over, including something the trainer did. It doesn't necessarily mean the horse did it out of sheer craziness.

deltawave
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:36 PM
Other than the fact that she's free, what in particular makes her a "possible future eventer"?

I'm with the "not enough facts to draw these conclusions" crowd, but I do hope she finds some better luck.

yellowbritches
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:45 PM
The flipping over doesn't bother me a ton, unless she has a history of going up and she finally hit the (forgive me) tipping point. BUT, I'm not wild about her eye (I know, silly, but she just has a look, even in the video, that I see a lot in horses that are either a sandwich short of a picnic basket or a little dumb or, worse, both). I am also not wild about her type for an event horse (I know nothing about Trakhner breeding but she is quite heavy looking to me. I love bone but I don't like the feeling that they are THICK). And while there is never a really good shot of her in the video, something looks funny conformationally behind...her hocks like kinda weak and funny...I also get the feeling she's not 100% sound. I just don't like her...and I am also always VERY leery of free/give away horses. It has only worked out well once for me.

Oh, and bfne, I agree about the clip job. Makes me think they have done something to her.

Appsolute
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:55 PM
Yeah…. Mare with bad carrot stick training… goes on to get bad undersaddle training. One of her first experiences undersaddle resulted in flipping over so badly that she hurt herself… This mare is going to have some BAGGAGE. I would MUCH prefer a “clean slate” to the experiences this mare has had.

As an appy owner, I do not mind the whites around the eyes at all (just a difference in pigmentation), I do not think it is an indicator of temperament. Horse looks pretty level headed in the video, despite a handler that appears fairly clueless (lunge line around foot and hand? Weird “two handed” method to turn the horse? Over all timid handling, but I am not surprised, with that orange stick in her hand).

Such a shame that they “broke her” (literally) and are now looking to sell her.

yellowbritches
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:31 PM
I actually don't notice any white in the video, just in the picture. I am also an appy owner, have known and ridden lots of non-appies with white eyes, had a lovely draft cross mare with CREEPY parti-colored eyes (with whites), and have a super cool young mare in my care now who has startling blue eyes...It isn't the color, it is the way she looks out of her eyes...it's a look I've encountered before, and have never really had great experiences with. It's a little bit of "lights are on but nobody's home" kind of look.