PDA

View Full Version : Actha



tomscrima
Jul. 26, 2011, 10:07 AM
My apologies if I have used your group to advertise Actha. Probably guilty as charged! But my main reasons for entering the group is to correct misinformations...ie treeless- we allow them, membership- renews at 95 % level, new members 70% referral from existing. $500k given to rescues and cause related full equine employment...that's the core issue...no sound horse denied a job.
We are "casual" competition with low endurance type demands so as to be inclusive of all horses...even ones that riders don't have time to leg up for more demanding venues.
Just want accurate info out there...thanks.
Tom
Tom@actha.us

katyb
Jul. 26, 2011, 11:25 AM
I notice that all of the replies that were complaints are now gone -

Heart's Journey
Jul. 26, 2011, 12:11 PM
the membership renewal rate is high because you automatically charged my credit cards the renewal even though I didn't request it..... I'm thinking you do that to everyone. Not an ethical practice.

Painted Horse
Jul. 26, 2011, 01:18 PM
Not just the post with complaints. But the entire thread was removed and new one started.

Tom thanks for coming clean. I have no objection with folks using the internet in its various forms to advance their interest. My complaint has always been those that try to sneek post through.

Individuals that seldom make post, that rarely contribute to threads should pay for their advertising, if that is the only reason they frequent a site. But if you are part of the web family, activily contributing to threads, Lets talk about what interest you. But too often I see folks with 1-2- or 10 post show up in a forum and start a thread promoting something, usually wording it as an endorsement. And folks promoting ACTHA just seem to be one of the most common at this.

Personally, I'm not very interested in ACTHA types of rides. To me a trail ride needs to be more that few miles long. I have to laugh at memories of my daughter. She saw on the County Fair list of events a Competitive Trail Riding class. Not knowing any better she signed up for it and showed up in her riding tights, helmet ready to do a trail ride. The event was the typical horse show trail class. where they riders opened a gate, backed thru an "L" and 3-4 other obsticles. The other riders were dressed in their horse show attire. It took all of 2 minutes to complete the run. She was extremely disappointed. She had a horse that was ready and willing to complete a 25 mile event.

I realize that ACTHA is something in between. It's a 5-6 mile ride that take an hour maybe two to ride. But for me, If I going to load up and trailer the horse someplace, I want to spend the day in the saddle.

cutter99
Jul. 27, 2011, 07:16 AM
I would still like to know if ACTHA still contributes to HSUS. Can someone please tell me???

appstarz
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:53 AM
ACTHA shamelessly self promotes. If you sign up, you get dozens of emails. Multiple daily promotions for sponsors. There is talk of less than full disclosure on award winners and recipients of charity monies.

tomscrima
Jul. 27, 2011, 12:44 PM
Thank you for your replies, forgiveness and questions. I'll do my best. At 65 so much of these forms of communications with their new rules are new to me. But I see the logic. It's in essence a place to "chat" not sell. Noted and thanks.
To answer the questions posed here's my best shot for now ( always on the run, like most of you):
A. It's a 6 - 8 mile one day venue although many hold 2 day back to back.
B. Our high renewal rate is not from auto charge. No one gets auto charged their $35 annual membership unless they gave permission to do so. They MUST check the box to get auto charged. Then even at that anyone can change their preference ( it's meant as a convience since it's such a small sum) AT ANYTIME during the membership either online or calling customer service.
C. We are not a endurance or advanced distance discipline. We
try to be inclusive of as many horses as possible and after a lifetime of competing we well realize many simply do not have the time to leg up for endurance type events. actha is all about
creating jobs for horses thus value, thus reducing the thousands of horses going to rescues or slaughter. The sad fact
is most the horses in rescues and in rendering facilities are
sound able bodied mounts who simply lost their jobs. Actha,
and others, are trying to eliminate that....and will.
D. Actha made a contribution to the 3 largest horse rescues last
year, those being owned by the HSUS. We have not donated to
any of their other divisions or causes. Despite the venom some
seem to have for them we can absolutely state if I were a
horse in need I'd pray the truck stops at one of their rescues. A
more devout group to horses well being and use you will never
find. Sorry if this inflames some who generalize as to their
intent...but quite honestly Keith Dane, the head of their Equine
Division and his small staff are among the most hard working
devout horsemen, judges, meat eating humans I have had the
pleasure to work with. I know nothing about poultry, I do know
their is absolutely no association or tie ins with the Peta
whatsoever and I do know major very skilled lobbyist have been
paid large sums to discredit Hsus but all I can tell you or care
about is they provide safe haven for more rescue horses than
anyone in the world and we are proud to have been able to
give them a few sheckles along with hundreds of other rescues.


Thanks all...hope I did this correctly.
Tom

tomscrima
Jul. 27, 2011, 12:49 PM
Ps I won't have much time to pst for awhile ...we are completing the network series " America's Favorite Trail Horse" ...it's going be great! Watch and vote!
( dang! Is that advertising!? If it is I will understand if your moderator does not post)
Tom

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:04 PM
It would behoove you, Tom, to educate yourself with regards to the HSUS.

2009 Financial Statements; Study..........http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/financials/2009-form-990.pdf

katyb
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:20 PM
The auto renew feature has completely alienated several of my friends. Hey, if the yearly amount is $35, how does mine say I am past due $135, because (lucky for me!) my credit card expired before I could be charged? It's been less than two years since I joined. If you google search ACTHA auto renew, you may find out that people are NOT thrilled with this feature.

cutter99
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:24 PM
Once again, a free advertisement at the expense of COTH members. ACTHA needs to man up and buy advertising like the other companies here!

I will never join an organization that contributes so much as a penny to HSUS! And I won't even get started on the issue of slaughter!

Malda
Aug. 9, 2011, 11:49 PM
I have a minor complaint about ACTHA. (sorry, I know it's an old thread.) They have an ad in the Aug. issue of horse trader for their America's Favorite Trial Horse competition. For sending in a video/picture all it said was "Send us something funny, cute or interesting... old or new!". I thought great, I have a really cute video of my horse playing with the mounting block, it would be perfect (it really is cute). So I went to their site and clicked on their link.
http://www.actha.us/index.php?option=com_association&view=guest&area=afth&task=kids

Now it changes to it has to be your horse with a kid, dog or any pet, not mentioned in the ad. Also, there's a $29. "review" fee.

I know this isn't anything major, but it has too much of a bait-and-switch feel. I don't care for any organization that does something like this.

Equibrit
Aug. 10, 2011, 11:53 AM
Well - they have to collect all that money to donate to HSUS somehow. Doesn't matter that the chance of an animal seeing any of that money is pretty slim.

TheresanAppfurthat
Aug. 10, 2011, 03:41 PM
I would like to comment about this group because after seeing someone post on Fugly about something which appeared on an RFD-TV horse program I subsequently had a chance to see the same program myself -- and was (to put it mildly) dismayed at what I saw.

The ACTHA holds itself out in its myriad advertising venues as being a family friendly organization. That means, by process of logic, junior riders. You might think a "family friendly" organization with said desired junior participants would be safety oriented.

Evidently not, from what I saw.

In that TV program (a segment on "The Horse Show with Rick Lamb" on RFD-TV there was an ACTHA competition shown in which one of the competitors was riding cross-country including water crossings - standing up, roman style. This was not a vaulting competition in an indoor arena. This was what is being called "X-treme trail" and this male rider standing up on his horse riding cross-country finally fell off giggling like an idiot.

As I recall he was also sans helmet (oh please let us not have to go through the helmet debate again, 'kay??).

You know the old saying, monkey see, monkey do? Having taught junior riders and adult beginners for over four decades and striving to always set the best possible safety example, I can tell you that seeing a televised competition featuring a self-labeled "family friendly organization" which shows the "fun" someone can have riding roman-style cross country, frankly made my blood run cold. Just sayin.'

No doubt the ACTHA will have some wonderful "explanation" excusing itself for this. Well, sorry, just not interested. Unsafe is unsafe. No real horsemanship going on there. And terrible example for "families" to follow. Solely based on that I would not participate either with a membership or in any of their "competitions."

tabula rashah
Aug. 10, 2011, 04:53 PM
Pretty much my experience with ACTHA
1. You should be riding a stock horse breed
2. You should be riding western
3. Be prepared to be judged by kids, people who have no idea what they are doing, etc
4. If your horse moves faster than a snail, forgedaboudit
All of this is fine- I tried it and, meh, not for me but I think the advertising is way misleading.

I loved all the misinformation on the FEI banning treeless saddles. And the hypocrisy about treeless saddles not being safe, but apparently riding without helmets is?.... well that says a whole lot about the organization right there.

And I call BS on you have to check the auto-renewal thingy- I went on and looked at my membership after being alerted to the auto-renew on this board- Sure enough- it was checked for auto-renew, which I 100% did not do.

birdsong
Aug. 10, 2011, 05:03 PM
It is simply a money making BUSINESS designed with great advertising to entice people to pay lots of money to go on a short obstacle ride.

Brain Washing IMO

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 05:24 PM
I notice that all of the replies that were complaints are now gone -
hopefully there weren't any!! We're purdy darn purfect! (yeah right...)

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 05:27 PM
the membership renewal rate is high because you automatically charged my credit cards the renewal even though I didn't request it..... I'm thinking you do that to everyone. Not an ethical practice.
just the kind of mis info I am talking about...no one gets charged without consent and previous consent to charge can be withdrawn at any time...nope, we get 95% the old fashion way...we earn it.
(Its the other 5% we can't figure out....)
Tom

Equibrit
Aug. 10, 2011, 06:16 PM
Tom - you are clearly an irresponsible fool, if you think this is the way to keep your members happy. (You might try some upper case letters too).

BEARCAT
Aug. 10, 2011, 06:34 PM
I would also add that I contacted ACTHA on behalf of the 501c3 horse rescue I volunteer at - after all, they boast themselves as donating 100s of thousands to rescues - never heard back. Nope, no one ever contacted me, even to say "sorry, all funds are allocated, maybe next year."
Where DOES all the money go?

BEARCAT
Aug. 10, 2011, 06:44 PM
Oh, and I just checked my membership (I had joined to do AFTHA and then decided not to) and yes indeed, I was all set up for "AUTO RENEWAL", so MR tom, I think this is total BS: "Our high renewal rate is not from auto charge. No one gets auto charged their $35 annual membership unless they gave permission to do so. They MUST check the box to get auto charged. "
I know darn well I never checked any box - I am VERY careful about that.

And a big THANK YOU to those who pointed it out, and no, to me it is not " such a small sum" if it is being extorted without my consent.

katyb
Aug. 10, 2011, 06:55 PM
just the kind of mis info I am talking about...no one gets charged without consent and previous consent to charge can be withdrawn at any time...nope, we get 95% the old fashion way...we earn it.
(Its the other 5% we can't figure out....)
Tom

Not true. I absolutely did NOT check a box indicating that I wanted to participate in autorenewal. I know several other people who also did not intend to renew their memberships, but were automatically renewed anyway. Autorenewal is the default setting. You have to purposefully NOT renew. That explains the 95% rate. As I've said before, google ACHTA and autorenew, and you'll see how real people actually feel about it.

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 07:28 PM
we will try...being a real rube at this SN thing...to not do this. I will instruct the staff.
I wish I could chat more..its a unbelievable job...rewarding yes but my God the hours! I need more staff! We are 18 need 26!

I come from a distance riding background...loved it. But no time to leg up me or my wonderful warm blood..thus actha was born.
its 6-6-6, Six miles, 6 challenges (safe but demanding to do eloquently) and 6 judges...one crack pot can't throw you out of the running. Actually since our judges are only responsible for one obstacle its the fairest and best system anywhere...do we make errors...yup!

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 07:31 PM
sorry...total BS...your card cannot be processed unless you checked the permission box...plus you get a refund if you are not satisfied...you must have us confused with another...sorry...

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 07:39 PM
if the site would allow a cut and paste here's the auto renewal you checked...
ANYONE can un check their auto renew ANYTIME...2 ways...accounts page or customer service...no charge...ever. We wouldn't be actha otherwise with a ***** customer rating.

Terms:
"BOX TO CHECK PRECEDES"....I agree to have my credit card listed above charged for the ACTHA membership I have selected. I also understand that my annual membership will be automatically billed to this credit card annually unless I notify ACTHA BEFORE the next renewal date. ALL MEMBERSHIP DUES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE.

tomscrima
Aug. 10, 2011, 07:40 PM
we're "ACTHA" not AFTHA ...you must have the wrong assoc...we don't do that...

katyb
Aug. 10, 2011, 09:18 PM
No, it's definitely ACTHA, and autorenewal is definitely the default choice. Again, this makes the claim that your renewal rate is proof that people love ACHTA so much laughable. Have you read all of the message boards where people are appalled by having their memberships renewed, when they had no plans to renew?

You also haven't addressed the issue of any continued donations to HSUS, why reputable horse rescues don't hear back from you when they ask how to apply for assistance, why you considered banning treeless saddles for safety reasons but don't require helmets, even on kids, etc, etc. I think it is extremely rude to come here to try and drum up business, then not to follow up with answers to legitimate questions that people ask about the organization.

I asked many posts back about my "past due" bill, since lucky for me my credit card expired before the autorenew kicked in. No response to that post either.

katarine
Aug. 10, 2011, 10:11 PM
Tom, reaming people out publicly regarding your organization...TACKY.

I live in AL. I'm in PA this week. A coworker was stunned to hear I knew about the Amish horses getting dehydrated at Costco here in PA. How did I know THAT, she said?


COTH, boo boo.

This board paints the horse world with a broad brush-stroke. You might take this scolding as a gift to you: Shut your mouth and run a better business.

Or not, your choice.

EquineLegalSolutions
Aug. 10, 2011, 10:48 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only skeptic of ACTHA and the other equine organizations that market themselves heavily as charitable organizations, but are really for-profit businesses.

I wrote a blog article about these types of organizations (http://equinelegalsolutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/horse-people-as-marketing-victims.html) a while back, and a follow-up article with advice about how to check out organizations before donating/joining (http://equinelegalsolutions.blogspot.com/2010/07/how-to-check-out-horse-organizations.html). Bottom line: donating directly to your charity of choice is a lot surer way to get your money routed to your preferred cause. (but check out the charity first to see how much goes to the folks/animals in need vs. admin expenses - you might be surprised. E.g., remember the United Way scandal?!)

Interestingly, Mr. Scrima sent me an email right after the first blog article was published, saying something to the effect that "surely you can't be referring to ACTHA?!" and describing how hard-working he and his fellow founders are, how they make no money, work day and night, etc. Of course, that's how most start-up business founders operate - until they reach profitability...

I'm certainly not against for-profit businesses. But I'm against businesses that are, ahem, less than forthcoming about their principal objectives.

HydroPHILE
Aug. 11, 2011, 09:23 AM
if the site would allow a cut and paste here's the auto renewal you checked...
ANYONE can un check their auto renew ANYTIME...2 ways...accounts page or customer service...no charge...ever. We wouldn't be actha otherwise with a ***** customer rating.


WOW! I just went to the site to "sign up" and see what the fuss was about, and I have to say - what a way to be sneaky and pull a bait and switch!

Here is what proceeds the check box after entering in CC information:

I agree to have my credit card listed above charged for the ACTHA membership I have selected. I also understand that my annual membership will be automatically billed to this credit card annually unless I notify ACTHA BEFORE the next renewal date. ALL MEMBERSHIP DUES ARE NON-REFUNDABLE.

So you HAVE to agree to an automatic renewal IF you want ACTHA to process your credit card payment in the first place. If you do not check it, the membership will not be processed. I attempted to go through the sign up procedure without checking it, and it flagged an error. Nice.

While I am not a member of ACTHA, based solely on this thread, the self-promotion and backpatting, and the support of the HSUS ("rescues owned by them,") I was interested in joining, but I'm steering clear of them in the future.

mysaygrace
Aug. 11, 2011, 09:38 AM
At one time I had considered joining ACTHA, but it sounds like they truly don't have their act together. I much rather put my money towards other organizations that aren't jamming their advertising down my throat & back pedaling all the time. As far as the membership auto renewal problem, that's just dirty the way they have it set up. I'm getting the feeling it's all about making money for them. When they said "Safety is the most important aspect to us here at ACTHA." then one would think they'd require wearing helmets like many other recognized horse sports. I think I'll stay away from ACTHA.

PRS
Aug. 11, 2011, 09:47 AM
Don't you just love it when they come on here spouting off how wonderful they are and they end up digging a big hole for themselves and then alienating the very people they are trying to impress? What a bunch of losers. Steer clear people, I know I will.

So far as I can tell Ol' Tom hasn't answered any of the direct questions posed to him on this forum. All he has done is take advantage of it to get some free advertising which has backfired on him big time. :lol:

Auventera Two
Aug. 11, 2011, 09:49 AM
I have ZERO interest in this organization. A while back a friend sent me an advertisement about an ACTHA event to be held in our area, and honestly the whole thing looked like a joke. Sorry but I really don't consider 6 miles of trail to be any sort of competitive trail riding. That's just a warm up hack for me. If a person wants to be judged while riding trails, they can do Competitive Trail Riding (CTR) and actually RIDE TRAILS. That would mean 25 or more miles.

BEARCAT
Aug. 11, 2011, 10:57 AM
we're "ACTHA" not AFTHA ...you must have the wrong assoc...we don't do that...


Is this person for real?

So I did mistype and it should have said "I had joined to do AFTH and then decided not to" That is America's Favorite Trail Horse, put on by ACTHA - SAME ORGANIZATION!!!

mysaygrace
Aug. 11, 2011, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by tomscrima
we're "ACTHA" not AFTHA ...you must have the wrong assoc...we don't do that...


Well to me that's the straw that breaks the camels back! Come on tomscrima, man up here & face the facts, your organization has some flaws, so fix them! The input you're getting here could be taken as constructive criticism but you prefer to make excuses rather listen to potential members. Your posts here are really turning people off. Very good way to deter people from ever joining ACTHA & word of mouth amongst horse people can make or break you.

TheresanAppfurthat
Aug. 11, 2011, 11:19 AM
Rachel/Equine Legal Solutions - well said, good articles in the links, and since you are in Oregon (and not meaning to hijack this thread this is just FYI) you might also want to check out the "Forty Something C*wgirls" in Oregon now making the rounds of the fairs and the horse expos. I actually did check them out and IMO this "group" is something strongly akin to a pyramid scheme while holding itself out as a social organization; the group also very quickly provides all (and I do mean ALL) contact information and anything else they can "get" on you to others (businesses, clubs, etc.) for marketing purposes even when you have told them not to do so. The clue about the pyramid scheme came when there was repeated insistence that you "provide the name of who brought you in" so that they can accumulate "points" for financial or in-kind "rewards and prizes." Very glitzy group with an unmistakable hard-sell underneath.

JollyBadger
Aug. 11, 2011, 11:30 AM
My SO subscribes to Trail Rider magazine, and in the last year or so it seems to have become one big advertisement for ACTHA. The more I read about this organization (even in articles meant to promote it), the less interested I am in having anything to do with it.

I just don't see the attraction in paying that much money to haul a horse just to ride 6 miles and be judged over a few "obstacles."

There are widespread complaints about the quality and education of the judges - everything from judges not knowing the difference between a neck-rope and a tie-down, to showing strong preference for slow-moving stock breeds while penalizing gaited horses for not trotting or "going too fast."

As others have already said, 6 miles is a "warm up" for most trail riders. That's a "hop on and go for a short bareback ride through the woods to relax after working all day" kind of ride.

The auto-renewal, though, is just icing on the cake. I've seen other businesses do the same thing to their customers, whether it's anti-virus software or offers for discounted magazine subscriptions, and it's a sneaky way to go about making money.

I'll steer clear of ACTHA for now. . .

Auventera Two
Aug. 11, 2011, 12:02 PM
Yesterday I went up into the Northwoods to do a ride. We ended up trying to find our way around downed trees ALL over the place thanks to a couple of recent storms. At one point we had to jump our horses up the side of a cliff, make our way around the monstorous fallen tree, then make our way back down the other side. It was so steep that I got off, secured up my horse's reins and sent her on down in front of me. She had to hop over sappling trees, rotted logs, and over a big hole and then jump down the remainder of the cliff back onto the trail. She REALLY had to pay attention to where her feet were going. She had to put her head down, look, and be smart about it.

I considered that to be a trail obstacle. We rode almost 4 hours and came back to the trailer tired. I was sore from all the tree hopping/dodging and rocky, washed out hills to navigate.

Simply walking over a log or crossing a little wooden bridge doesn't count as an obstacle in my opinion. Undoubtedly there are people who will pay outrageous entry fees to ride a 6 mile hack and negotiate some "obstacles" but I'm definitely not one of them.

riff
Aug. 11, 2011, 12:58 PM
It sounds like the competitions are for the "weekend only" rider. I had thought of joining but will most certainly steer clear of it now. The group rep who is posting here has run me off!

HydroPHILE
Aug. 11, 2011, 01:36 PM
Yesterday I went up into the Northwoods to do a ride. We ended up trying to find our way around downed trees ALL over the place thanks to a couple of recent storms. At one point we had to jump our horses up the side of a cliff, make our way around the monstorous fallen tree, then make our way back down the other side. It was so steep that I got off, secured up my horse's reins and sent her on down in front of me. She had to hop over sappling trees, rotted logs, and over a big hole and then jump down the remainder of the cliff back onto the trail. She REALLY had to pay attention to where her feet were going. She had to put her head down, look, and be smart about it.

Now that actually sounds like fun :)

cutter99
Aug. 11, 2011, 04:04 PM
I can't decide if Tom Scrima actually believes what he is saying or he just thinks we are all dumb enough to blindly believe him.

TheresanAppfurthat
Aug. 12, 2011, 03:19 PM
Well, Cutter, with the flippant tone of his posts, I think he thinks we are just a)silly b)stupid c) both of the above.

Rowdy Corgi
Aug. 13, 2011, 12:56 PM
Wow, what a heated post this is! I am a member of ACTHA. I have competed in their events. I love it! Its really a great group of folks that participate and that conduct the events and the program. Like Tom said they arent perfect but I really dont know of any club, group or organization that is perfect. Ive shown horses & trail rode and this group ACTHA is giving people a place to enjoy themselves with their horse with other like minded people. I dont get what all the fuss is about. The people that participate in these events may not want to go on a 25 mile ride in a day, theres nothing wrong with that. Some of these folks use it for their show horses to get them out of the arena. If I choose to go ride for an 8 hr ride I go somewhere that I can do that but that doesnt mean that everytime I ride that I want to go that long.
Those of you wining about the obstacles, one says that its cross county jumping with extreme obstacles and another says the obstacles are not worth the effort if youre not hanging off a cliff. What a bunch of whacky people. What is wrong with different strokes for different folks? They are not extreme or dangerous obstacles. Safety is always ACTHA's first priority. Helmets are not required for adults but all youth must wear a helmet. I personally dont choose to wear a helmet and my choice effects no one but myself if I am injured. Just like not wearing a seat belt. Maybe some of you on here need to get out more into the real horse world and see what is really going on. There are many other crusades that you could get on for a much better result than bashing a great organization like ACTHA. If its not for you thats okay but unless you have participated in an event you really dont have a clue what you are talking about. At ACTHA events most everyone wins something not just the winners, and I think thats a great way to promote horses and competition. Most rides everyone takes something home with them. I have been to many regular horse shows where if I didnt win the class I got nothing and even some that I won the class and still didnt get anything. Give ACTHA a break. They are growing really fast which should tell you something....people like the format and connecting with other horse people. Plus its great for the horses. You dont have to have a special breed with special papers or that has been paid up in some special breeders program to qualify. You can ride any horse any way you want to. Its GREAT!

JollyBadger
Aug. 13, 2011, 04:12 PM
Enjoy it if that's your "thing," but I do believe that some of the concerns being brought up are very legitimate.

For example, requiring new members to agree to "auto-renewal" in order to even process their first payment, so that they have to come back again at a later date and check the box that they do NOT want to renew.

It's a sleazy, sneaky practice used by everything from health club memberships to computer anti-virus programs and cell phone "insurance" plans. And, apparently, it's also used by ACTHA to "maintain" memberships of people who decide it isn't for them. Sorry, but that's just not cool. Especially if you've ever tried to get that money back.

The "quality" of the judging is another legitimate concern. If ACTHA is going to tout themselves as being open to "all breeds," then maybe they should be sure that the people organizing the events are finding judges who know the difference between gaited horses and stock horses and don't expect them all to move the same way.

Same goes for tack. Someone judging a "trail" event should know the difference between a neck rope and a tie-down.

Is there any type of qualification a judge needs to meet in order to be a judge for ACTHA? Is there any effort by the organization to educate those who want to judge events, to ensure that judging is actually done with some fairness to the competitors?

Or does it even matter, since it sounds like one of those "everyone gets a ribbon, everyone is a winner" programs. . .in which case why even pay to be judged at all?

As for helmets. . .I don't care one way or another if adults choose not to wear a helmet. If their hairstyle is more important to them than what's inside their head, then there's not much inside their head worth protecting anyway.

Most of the people I trail ride with don't wear helmets, either, and I don't lecture them about it. I do giggle, though, when we have to duck through undergrowth or a low branch and I can hear them cussing behind me as the briars, branches, spider webs and bugs get caught up in their hair.:lol: Helmets are useful for more than just protecting your head in a fall.

Painted Horse
Aug. 13, 2011, 11:32 PM
Rowdy, We could care less about the type of events that ACTHA puts on. As you said, Different events for different folks. Let the folks that enjoy that type of ride go and support it.

What started this discussion was blatant advertizing by Tom using threads on this and other websites. The original thread was deleted the day after it started and this thread with the same name was started.

As far as I'm concerned, I wish ANY organization that promotes horses and the various disciplines success. If ACTHA members are going to post threads on websites. do it in a manner where you contribute to the website. Too often they log on, and their 1st post is a unsolicted endorsement of what a wonderful event last weekend was. then they never post again. If they want to be a member of this website. Contribute and add comments to the various discussions. If you look at Toms profile, his number of post almost exactly equals the number of post in this and the deleted thread. He had not been a participating member of any other discussions. And I see that same mode of operation on numerous other horse websites. They use web discussion to promote their events. Don't try to sneek in free advertising. If they want to adertise, GREAT, buy an ad over to the right -------->

cutter99
Aug. 14, 2011, 10:09 AM
Very well said Painted Horse!

Rowdy Corgi
Aug. 14, 2011, 10:45 AM
Oh, so sorry for the confusion. I thought this was another thread on this forum like many that I have seen before where people try to discuss something new or exciting in the horse world and the regulars on this forum are just bashing it. I visit this forum from time to time and I dont post very often because the forum regulars usually just tell everyone how bad everything is whether they have ever tried it or actually attended an event. It would be nice to see a more postitive response to first time posters in general and to let people share their ideas and experiences without fear of being attacked. I do post on other forums that are more open to new and changing trends and that are nicer to the folks on the forum.

ACTHA may have some bugs to work out in their billing/accounting program but I feel sure if you were charged a renewal and you notified them they would be happy to correct it. Its good that it has been brought to their attention.

I find it interesting that posters that dont have time to sit at their computer for hours each week posting thousands of posts per year are not considered to have any sensible opinion on issues. I look at it differently, I look at as if you are sitting on the internet posting on forums day in and day out....how do you ever have time to actually ride a horse or participate in any type of showing/training program or events? To me it seems you are more of an internet rider.........just my thought anyway. again didnt mean to affend anyone by posting since I dont post everyday but I just felt ACTHA was getting beat up on for no real reason and wanted to put in my 2 cents.

The ACTHA judging issue, well I dont see what you are complaining about?? The quality of the judges.....lol Have you ever shown before? If you have shown in any breed/open type of show you will find an issue with the quality of them all....lol. Just look around sometime if you get a chance.... I go to multi judges shows and the differences are amazing. One judge places a horse first and the others dont use it. THIS IS CALLED HORSE SHOWING and that the way it is. If you dont like it , dont show.

As far a the helmet topic....again I dont wear on and have never worn one. I dont hold it against people that do but I do get affended when people try to make it sound like people that dont are asking to get hurt or that they are stupid and dont care.
The helmet didnt save Christopher Reeves from a broken neck did it? Or maybe he would have just had head injury instead of a broken necK??? Thats an interesting thought ............
I have never in all of my 40+ years of riding have ever had a head injury from any fall. I have never fallen off my horse and landed on my head. I also have never known anyone that has suffered a severe head injury from a fall. If I rode an english saddle all the time and I had a habit of falling off over my horses front end I may consider it. How far do we take the helmet issue? I have had closer calls on the ground with flying hooves in the round pen so should I wear a helmet everytime I am around a horse? Its my choice just like its anyone elses choice.

Regardless of my opinions which I know will differ from many of the users of this forum I hope that everyone has a safe and enoyable experience with their horse and that they get out there and have fun with it.

katyb
Aug. 14, 2011, 10:56 AM
Well, I post occasionally and ride a lot, and I have participated in an ACTHA ride.

Here are my direct experiences:

Before joining, I asked if I could ride in a riding halter. I was told yes. I was later informed that riding halters are not allowed in ACTHA competitions. I was not offered or given a refund, despite my initial question being answered inaccurately.

I rode in one ride, in middle TN in the fall of 2009. The judges were given maybe 10 minutes of training on their obstacle. They were just people who volunteered, not people with any training or demonstrated skills.

Every rider that participated got lost, due to insufficent signs and directions. While lost, we came across the ride crew, and they had no idea where we should go.

My ACTHA account shows that I owe them $135, even though I did not ever indicate a desire to renew my membership (see above - I'm not even eligible to ride in an ACTHA event). It's only been two years, so I have no idea how the amount is even that high. My credit card expired, and I have no intention of paying them a penny.

As an aside - I don't care if you wear a helmet or not. The complaint was that the organizers at ACTHA had indicated that they were not going to allow competitors to ride in treeless saddles for safety reasons. They did backtrack on that plan after hearing a lot of complaints from people who ride treeless. Still, if you are going to make all these rules and assertions based on rider safety, helmets should obviously be the first step in that process.

I'm glad you had fun on your ride. I hope you continue to do so. I do think the ACTHA idea is a good one, but I think it has been horribly carried out.

Equibrit
Aug. 14, 2011, 11:01 AM
At ACTHA events most everyone wins something not just the winners, ...

Yeah - leadline too.

The subscription scam could probably be characterized as fraud, which could result in legal consequences.

birdsong
Aug. 14, 2011, 11:10 AM
Rowdy...my question is...why do you pay so much to do these trail challenges? Not only is there a fee to be a member...but the sign up fee to ride is exorbitant too IMO.

During our riding season here in S Fl (winters) there are so many really nice, well attended obstacle trail rides being held that its hard to choose. $10-20.

I once had a long conversation with an organizer of one of these events. She confided that after paying for the venue, and sending in the required cut of the entry fees to ACTHA there was ZERO money left over. They had to skip the advertised coffee and donuts and water for the riders. There were quite a few upset people.

Its much better IMO to contribute money to local charities.
Just wondering :confused:

Also wondering...are you an acquaintance of Tom and his wife?

PRS
Aug. 14, 2011, 11:13 AM
Most judges at horse shows have to pass some kind of test or internship to get their judges card. Sure, I know that judges opinions can be fairly arbitrary but like you said "That's horse showing". But nobody has been able to (or been willing to) answer what kind of certification judges at ACTHA events are required to have. Not that I care but others have asked. I have reservations about giving my money to a group that won't answer even that most basic question. I don't show or compete anywhere right now although I have been thinking of getting into CTR at some point and initially thought to try a few ACTHA rides to "get my feet wet" so to speak. After seeing some of the posts here by Tom Scrima (a founder) and a few other higher ups. I've completely changed my mind. Nothing against the rank and file or against the events themselves (though I wouldn't see the point of trailering a couple hours just to ride 6 miles). What had really given me a bad taste in my mouth though was the rather arbitrary decision to ban treeless saddle even though the rule was immediately rescinded. The sheer ignorance on the subject is what got me. Claims that treeless saddles are inherently more dangerous than treed saddles just pissed me off and proved the ignorance of the people making those statements. False claims that treeless saddles had been banned by FEI were made by Tom on this forum....funny how he never answered a direct question asking for a link to the FEI rules on the subject. He comes on this forum and others just to post a free advertisement...then claims that he is technologically challenged and "didn't understand" when called on it. The rules of this forum are clear and he just thought they didn't apply to him. Nobody just reached out and decided to attack the ACTHA they set themselves up for it.

CosMonster
Aug. 14, 2011, 11:47 AM
I manage to have several thousand posts and yet also ride 5-8 horses a day, compete in horse shows, go on multi-day horse camping trips, and am gearing up for my first 50 mile endurance ride. It's really not that hard to rack up a few thousand posts and also ride your horses. :lol:

Also the comments about Christopher Reeves are just crazy. I mean, of course a helmet wouldn't have saved him from a broken neck--that's not what they're designed for! For what it's worth, I don't always wear a helmet (though I usually do) and many of my friends don't wear them, which doesn't bother me. I do get irritated when I hear that old strawman of "But a helmet won't protect you from everything!" It's like, really? Gee, I had no idea that a lightweight cap made of plastic and foam isn't somehow magically extending a force field around my entire body. Thank you for telling me that before I strapped it on then jumped out of a plane without a parachute! On the other hand, there is quite a bit of scientific evidence showing that equestrians are very likely to suffer head injuries, and that helmets can help minimize those injuries. If you don't want to wear one, fine (as I said I don't always), but you can't say that you aren't taking additional risk with that decision unless you are ignorant or being disingenuous.

FWIW, I have attended two ACTHA rides to support some of my clients. I wasn't terribly impressed with the judging, but the ones I attended were well-organized and most people seemed to have fun. I had been recommending it to clients and friends who wanted something beyond just casual riding but didn't want to hit the show ring or do endurance (and have helped get you at least 3 new members that way), but the behavior of the founders on this and other boards is really making me rethink that. The blatant free advertising, holier-than-thou attitude, and ridiculing or ignoring people rather than answering questions or addressing complaints is painting a very different picture of the organization in my mind.

So good job, I guess.

Equibrit
Aug. 14, 2011, 01:03 PM
This raises the question of insurance. What type of insurance does ACTHA carry ? They are sanctioning events, and overseeing the operation of those events. Are they insured for this ?

foggybok
Aug. 14, 2011, 02:03 PM
As far a the helmet topic....again I dont wear on and have never worn one. I dont hold it against people that do but I do get affended when people try to make it sound like people that dont are asking to get hurt or that they are stupid and dont care.
The helmet didnt save Christopher Reeves from a broken neck did it? Or maybe he would have just had head injury instead of a broken necK??? Thats an interesting thought ............
I have never in all of my 40+ years of riding have ever had a head injury from any fall. I have never fallen off my horse and landed on my head. I also have never known anyone that has suffered a severe head injury from a fall. If I rode an english saddle all the time and I had a habit of falling off over my horses front end I may consider it. How far do we take the helmet issue? I have had closer calls on the ground with flying hooves in the round pen so should I wear a helmet everytime I am around a horse? Its my choice just like its anyone elses choice.

Regardless of my opinions which I know will differ from many of the users of this forum I hope that everyone has a safe and enoyable experience with their horse and that they get out there and have fun with it.

I don't really want to jump into this can of worms.... You do have a right to your opinion, but the logic defies me...

I guess it's a pet peeve of mine...

No, a helmet did not save Christopher Reeve's life....that's because he sustained a neck injury not a head injury. If he had hit his head instead, the helmet would have been protective....

A seatbelt in a car doesn't save you from a bridge collapsing on top of you, it's not supposed to...but it sure as heck protects you from being killed by being thrown from the vehicle.... (oh and I've been driving for almost 40 years, perhaps I shouldn't bother with a seat belt since I've never needed it anyway...)


A helmet saves lives, it protects the head. I have hit my head many times and am glad I've been wearing one when it happened (since you have not, you must just be a better rider than me...;) ) I was especially grateful for the helmet when the poorly placed rock broke my fall... :)

Wear one or don't, that's your choice...but quit making silly arguments....

katyb
Aug. 14, 2011, 02:20 PM
Wear one or don't, that's your choice...but quit making silly arguments....

Ditto that. I have several riding friends who don't wear helmets, but at least they are woman enough to admit that they should, and would be safer, but just aren't willing to wear a helmet. That's fine - it's a personal choice, although I still nag occasionally, and they ignore me good naturedly.

My latest attempt was to send them the Courtney King Dye video and then ask these questions.

1. Who loves you enough to take care of you, if you end up in that condition?

2. Do you love them enough to try and keep them out of that situation?

I thought that was a brilliant new strategy, but it was ineffective. Phoeey.

PRS
Aug. 14, 2011, 02:27 PM
Wear one or don't, that's your choice...but quit making silly arguments....

Ditto that. I have several riding friends who don't wear helmets, but at least they are woman enough to admit that they should, and would be safer, but just aren't willing to wear a helmet. That's fine - it's a personal choice, although I still nag occasionally, and they ignore me good naturedly.

My latest attempt was to send them the Courtney King Dye video and then ask these questions.

1. Who loves you enough to take care of you, if you end up in that condition?

2. Do you love them enough to try and keep them out of that situation?

I thought that was a brilliant new strategy, but it was ineffective. Phoeey.

I now am a "helmet every ride, every time" convert. Ironically the friend who has had several head injuries from becoming separated from her horse and was the inspiration for me to cross that line from "I know I should" to "I wouldn't ride without one" still refuses to wear one. And just for the record she is in her 60's has ridden her entire life and always in a western saddle do don't think it is just English riders getting launched.

Equibrit
Aug. 14, 2011, 03:37 PM
I's very difficult to see the downside to wearing a helmet. On the other hand..........it really depends on the quality of the brain to be protected.

katyb
Aug. 14, 2011, 06:00 PM
I's very difficult to see the downside to wearing a helmet. On the other hand..........it really depends on the quality of the brain to be protected.

When my son was younger and would sometimes be teased for wearing a helmet on his bike or skateboard, I just told him to say, "Some of us have brains worth protecting, and I guess others don't.". It was nicer than "evolution in action" anyway!

Guilherme
Aug. 14, 2011, 06:22 PM
I read Rowdy's post and if they're really been riding for 40 years and have never know anyone to sustain a head injury from a riding incident then:

1. They don't know too many people.

2. They haven't ridden much in those 40 years.

3. They're not very observant.

Could be any one of these or some combination. In any event the claim is not very credible.

As noted, wear one or don't. But don't blow sunshine up my kilt; I get enough of that from the evening news.

G.

2Jakes
Aug. 14, 2011, 06:54 PM
Rowdy...my question is...why do you pay so much to do these trail challenges? Not only is there a fee to be a member...but the sign up fee to ride is exorbitant too IMO.

During our riding season here in S Fl (winters) there are so many really nice, well attended obstacle trail rides being held that its hard to choose. $10-20.

I am *currently* a member of ACTHA...but that's because I was re-upped last December on the auto-pay plan that I had neglected to cancel, my bad so okay, I'll eat it.

I have learned a lot from this thread: 1) how to cancel auto pay; 2) that ACTHA doesn't seem to value their members who voice valid concerns; 3) that I am not the only one that finds their entry fees to be really high.

To Tom, I was totally willing to give you the benefit of a doubt based on growing pains and a new organization, but your posts here have been a real turn-off.

I also ride in FL and second Birdsong's post about events on the "left side" of FL. More power to the people who like ACTHA, but I think I will stick to the events that are a lot less $$ and more obstacles. You *will* be seeing me and Caesar over on your side Birdsong!

That said, I have friends who took part in the "America's Favorite Trail Horse" and they made the finals (interestingly, they are both professional trainers) so I will watch that on HRTV. That will indirectly support ACTHA and that's fine, I'm still not renewing my membership in December.

HorsingRound
Aug. 14, 2011, 07:39 PM
I have friends who took part in the "America's Favorite Trail Horse" and they made the finals (interestingly, they are both professional trainers) so I will watch that on HRTV.


When is this supposed to be on the air? Were the finalists' episodes shown?

2Jakes
Aug. 14, 2011, 08:16 PM
The series starts on September 13. Seems like there will be 10 finalists in each episode, I have a friend in episode 5 and another in episode 7. HRTV is on DISH TV's line-up, not sure about any of the other services, and it is supposed to be on-line watchable.

appstarz
Aug. 15, 2011, 12:43 AM
I hate to see people lump a Judged Trail Ride or Judged Pleasure ride in with only ACTHA rides. Our club has held a Judged Trail Ride as a primary fundraiser to keep our local riding group going. They are a great place, with a relaxed atmosphere to get you horse out with friends to test skills and enjoy your horse. When I first heard of ACTHA, I thought what a great idea... but, to hold an ACTHA ride - ALL riders need to be members, then they take $18 per rider. So, the organization holding the ride, builds the obstacles, hires judges, pays for the venue, ribbons, prizes, advertising, etc. With most rides in our area charging $25 - $30 a horse/rider, after ACTHA's take, the poor club has lost money, but ACTHA has their tidy profit while they have an increased mailing list to send out advertising for their paying sponsors. The ACTHA rides I have seen, charge $60 to ride! Support your local clubs and rides. The rides are fun and you would be knowing what your money is supporting.

PRS
Aug. 15, 2011, 08:40 AM
I hate to see people lump a Judged Trail Ride or Judged Pleasure ride in with only ACTHA rides. Our club has held a Judged Trail Ride as a primary fundraiser to keep our local riding group going. They are a great place, with a relaxed atmosphere to get you horse out with friends to test skills and enjoy your horse. When I first heard of ACTHA, I thought what a great idea... but, to hold an ACTHA ride - ALL riders need to be members, then they take $18 per rider. So, the organization holding the ride, builds the obstacles, hires judges, pays for the venue, ribbons, prizes, advertising, etc. With most rides in our area charging $25 - $30 a horse/rider, after ACTHA's take, the poor club has lost money, but ACTHA has their tidy profit while they have an increased mailing list to send out advertising for their paying sponsors. The ACTHA rides I have seen, charge $60 to ride! Support your local clubs and rides. The rides are fun and you would be knowing what your money is supporting.


$18 per rider??!! No wonder they are raking in the money. The locals HAVE to charge huge amounts to ride just to pay their expenses while ACTHA has no expenses?? Does ACTHA at least cover insurance or is that up to the locals too? I've organized and put on horse shows and I know how expensive it can be to hire a venue, judges, buy insurance, etc. What exactly do the locals get from ACTHA when they organize a show? We always try to get sponsorship to help defray the costs but that isn't always possible. Our association only gets $1.00 per entry at our horse shows.

tomscrima
Aug. 15, 2011, 04:00 PM
you "will" be entertained.....:D

tomscrima
Aug. 15, 2011, 04:04 PM
The series starts on September 13. Seems like there will be 10 finalists in each episode, I have a friend in episode 5 and another in episode 7. HRTV is on DISH TV's line-up, not sure about any of the other services, and it is supposed to be on-line watchable.
HRTV going to make 8 weeks free...also delayed at actha.tv (just type that in your browser...

[B]Lastly DISH giving anyone hooking up using AFTH as code a free actha membership and a $15 ride credit.

Tom

Char
Aug. 15, 2011, 04:07 PM
you "will" be entertained.....:D

Is that a threat, or a promise? :o

tomscrima
Aug. 15, 2011, 04:09 PM
oh no no no...you don't have it right...ACTHA pays for insurance, national marketing, web support and so much else you simply cannot believe it...we haven't made a penny yet but hope to some day...but we have raised $600k+ for the cause and charity...so please...visit www.actha.us and visit holding a ride before you say something like this...and for the record the average actha ride manager makes $1,400 per ride on average...some much much more depending how effectively they market locally. Some don't do well but not many...charity wins, feed bills get paid, everyone has fun....

birdsong
Aug. 15, 2011, 04:21 PM
I hate to see people lump a Judged Trail Ride or Judged Pleasure ride in with only ACTHA rides. Our club has held a Judged Trail Ride as a primary fundraiser to keep our local riding group going. They are a great place, with a relaxed atmosphere to get you horse out with friends to test skills and enjoy your horse. When I first heard of ACTHA, I thought what a great idea... but, to hold an ACTHA ride - ALL riders need to be members, then they take $18 per rider. So, the organization holding the ride, builds the obstacles, hires judges, pays for the venue, ribbons, prizes, advertising, etc. With most rides in our area charging $25 - $30 a horse/rider, after ACTHA's take, the poor club has lost money, but ACTHA has their tidy profit while they have an increased mailing list to send out advertising for their paying sponsors. The ACTHA rides I have seen, charge $60 to ride! Support your local clubs and rides. The rides are fun and you would be knowing what your money is supporting.

This is EXACTLY what I mean!! I wish more people would wake up and realize that supporting your local groups and spending less money is more beneficial all the way around!

katyb
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:07 PM
you "will" be entertained.....:D

Tom!!! Great to see you back. Now, please answer all of the questions in the previous posts that have, so far, gone unanswered!

katyb
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:08 PM
oh no no no...you don't have it right...ACTHA pays for insurance, national marketing, web support and so much else you simply cannot believe it...we haven't made a penny yet but hope to some day...but we have raised $600k+ for the cause and charity...so please...visit www.actha.us and visit holding a ride before you say something like this...and for the record the average actha ride manager makes $1,400 per ride on average...some much much more depending how effectively they market locally. Some don't do well but not many...charity wins, feed bills get paid, everyone has fun....

Tell us, please, which charities, specifically, have received the $600,000.

cutter99
Aug. 15, 2011, 05:22 PM
And are Tom and his wife running ACTHA without taking a salary??? Are they running ACTHA totally out the the goodness of their hearts?

We are all aware there are ways around "making a profit"!

HydroPHILE
Aug. 16, 2011, 08:28 AM
oh no no no...you don't have it right...ACTHA pays for insurance, national marketing, web support and so much else you simply cannot believe it...we haven't made a penny yet but hope to some day...but we have raised $600k+ for the cause and charity...so please...visit www.actha.us and visit holding a ride before you say something like this...and for the record the average actha ride manager makes $1,400 per ride on average...some much much more depending how effectively they market locally. Some don't do well but not many...charity wins, feed bills get paid, everyone has fun....

Advertising is that way ------------------->

Guilherme
Aug. 16, 2011, 10:22 AM
The American Red Cross is non-profit. They pay six (and maybe seven) figured salaries to some staff members.

Non-profit, therefore, does not mean "staff doesn't get paid."

Of course who cares if the staff gets paid or not? If the organization performs a service you like then support it. If it doesn't, then don't. If they are constantly "blowing smoke" about their operation then comment is fully appropriate. The "auto-renewal" function is troubling but seems to be voluntary (if not exactly clear). I don't like that system but some other folks do like the convienience.

Vote with your dollars, folks.

G.

Auventera Two
Aug. 16, 2011, 10:55 AM
I'm confused as to how this advertising is allowed by the coth moderation. At one time I had mentioned to another poster that I had a saddle she could try out next time we're at the same trail head because she was having so much trouble with her horse and saddle fit. She'd tried everything and didn't know what else to try. I said that I didn't need the saddle anymore and she could keep it if it worked out for her horse. I got banned for a week for advertising and all my posts on that thread were deleted. I was warned that any further attempts at "under the radar" advertising would result in a permanent ban.

Good grief, I didn't even want any money for the dang saddle, I was just trying to help another coth member! She could keep the stupid thing for free for all I care. I had paid almost nothing for it.

But Tom can pimp his over priced trail rides with reckless abandon and nobody cares. Interesting.

mildot
Aug. 16, 2011, 11:55 AM
All I needed to know about ACTHA is this:

D. Actha made a contribution to the 3 largest horse rescues last
year, those being owned by the HSUS.

Dead to me

Ebm91
Sep. 2, 2011, 07:48 PM
In response to the people who said they didn't check the auto renewal box:

Me either! I am also very careful about these sorts of things. I DO NOT like for companies to keep my credit card info on file and I DO NOT like that a credit card is the only method of payment(from what I could tell. If I'm wrong please tell me)

What I noticed is that the box is already checked when you you go through the registration process. We are given the option to UNCHECK it. And that option is not easily noticed. I was very peeved by the fact that ACTHA pre-checks the auto renew box. I do not like to be manipulated and that pre-checked box made me feel like I had been taken advantage of.

I went to one ride after registering and I decided not to go to any more or renew my membership. That is WAY to much money to go on a glorified trail ride. $58 for a trail ride is pretty steep when I could go to the same park on a weekday when it's not crowded and pay a very low park fee.

Just my two cents!

HorsingRound
Sep. 5, 2011, 06:30 PM
BTW, the "pimping" continues, for free, on another horse website where a mod has created a thread promoting the "America's Favorite Trail Horse" series on HRTV.

HRTV is viewable, via cable or online, by paid subscription only.

Nor is ACTHA an advertiser on that website.

Interesting business model.

HydroPHILE
Sep. 5, 2011, 07:07 PM
BTW, the "pimping" continues, for free, on another horse website where a mod has created a thread promoting the "America's Favorite Trail Horse" series on HRTV.

HRTV is viewable, via cable or online, by paid subscription only.

Nor is ACTHA an advertiser on that website.

Interesting business model.

Can't make sense of your comment whether it was in regards to advertising on another website? another person? a separate thread? or what, but I have to say...........I LOVE HRTV! It's my new addiction especially on sleepless nights. Nowhere else can I catch show jumping, etc. at 1 am.

JollyBadger
Sep. 6, 2011, 12:02 PM
BTW, the "pimping" continues, for free, on another horse website where a mod has created a thread promoting the "America's Favorite Trail Horse" series on HRTV.

HRTV is viewable, via cable or online, by paid subscription only.

Nor is ACTHA an advertiser on that website.

Interesting business model.

I don't care for ACTHA, especially after seeing that P&L Parelli have gotten into endorsing it, but HRTV is also available through Dish network and you don't have to "pay extra" to subscribe to it.

But then, I don't even have cable TV - my BF is the one with Dish network. :cool:

poltroon
Sep. 6, 2011, 12:47 PM
Safety is always ACTHA's first priority. Helmets are not required for adults but all youth must wear a helmet. I personally dont choose to wear a helmet and my choice effects no one but myself if I am injured.

Wear a helmet or don't ... I'm not going to these events so it doesn't affect me.

But, "my choice effects (sic) no one but myself" is not accurate. A helmet can mean the difference between the rider walking away from a fall and having to stop the whole event for a couple of hours for the emergency personnel to come in and remove you from the premises in an ambulance and/or helicopter, with the organizers and responsible folk around figuring out what to do with your horse, finding the right person to call on your behalf, etc. I've seen the latter more times than I care to and I have to say that when it happens it wrecks my whole day.

China Doll
Sep. 21, 2011, 11:01 AM
ACTHA shamelessly self promotes. If you sign up, you get dozens of emails. Multiple daily promotions for sponsors. There is talk of less than full disclosure on award winners and recipients of charity monies.
I am a member and the only emails I get are to inform me of rides in my area. I am not getting any promotions and if I did it wouldn't be a big deal as they need to keep sponsorship.

China Doll
Sep. 21, 2011, 11:07 AM
Pretty much my experience with ACTHA
1. You should be riding a stock horse breed
2. You should be riding western
3. Be prepared to be judged by kids, people who have no idea what they are doing, etc
4. If your horse moves faster than a snail, forgedaboudit
All of this is fine- I tried it and, meh, not for me but I think the advertising is way misleading.

I loved all the misinformation on the FEI banning treeless saddles. And the hypocrisy about treeless saddles not being safe, but apparently riding without helmets is?.... well that says a whole lot about the organization right there.

And I call BS on you have to check the auto-renewal thingy- I went on and looked at my membership after being alerted to the auto-renew on this board- Sure enough- it was checked for auto-renew, which I 100% did not do.

They are having some growing pains and I agree they need to look at their judging system as it can be inconsistant but I have seen several english riders at the events and breed wasn't an issue with anyone.

China Doll
Sep. 21, 2011, 11:07 AM
It is simply a money making BUSINESS designed with great advertising to entice people to pay lots of money to go on a short obstacle ride.

Brain Washing IMO
I didn't think it was expensive. It costs way more to go to a horse show than an Actha ride

China Doll
Sep. 21, 2011, 11:09 AM
Oh, and I just checked my membership (I had joined to do AFTHA and then decided not to) and yes indeed, I was all set up for "AUTO RENEWAL", so MR tom, I think this is total BS: "Our high renewal rate is not from auto charge. No one gets auto charged their $35 annual membership unless they gave permission to do so. They MUST check the box to get auto charged. "
I know darn well I never checked any box - I am VERY careful about that.

And a big THANK YOU to those who pointed it out, and no, to me it is not " such a small sum" if it is being extorted without my consent.
Most companies that have on line memberships are auto renew. You have to uncheck the box.

China Doll
Sep. 21, 2011, 11:12 AM
Originally Posted by tomscrima
we're "ACTHA" not AFTHA ...you must have the wrong assoc...we don't do that...


Well to me that's the straw that breaks the camels back! Come on tomscrima, man up here & face the facts, your organization has some flaws, so fix them! The input you're getting here could be taken as constructive criticism but you prefer to make excuses rather listen to potential members. Your posts here are really turning people off. Very good way to deter people from ever joining ACTHA & word of mouth amongst horse people can make or break you.
People are being rude to him and he is stating his position. I do not find that he is being rude

PRS
Sep. 21, 2011, 02:22 PM
People are being rude to him and he is stating his position. I do not find that he is being rude

Puleeeezzze! He is just spouting lies and misinformation and refusing to answer direct questions. In support of ACTHA's ill conceived decision to ban treeless saddles he stated that FEI banned treeless saddles (they didn't) so that is a LIE. At the very least he is misinformed but when asked to provide a link to the FEI rule he goes "poof"

Not to mention that he came on here and started a thread just to advertise/promote his association. Not that he wanted to actually "buy" advertising or anything. He just wanted free advertising which is against the rules. That is just RUDE to all the other merchants who actually pay for their advertising spots.

JollyBadger
Sep. 22, 2011, 04:28 AM
Puleeeezzze! He is just spouting lies and misinformation and refusing to answer direct questions. In support of ACTHA's ill conceived decision to ban treeless saddles he stated that FEI banned treeless saddles (they didn't) so that is a LIE. At the very least he is misinformed but when asked to provide a link to the FEI rule he goes "poof"

Not to mention that he came on here and started a thread just to advertise/promote his association. Not that he wanted to actually "buy" advertising or anything. He just wanted free advertising which is against the rules. That is just RUDE to all the other merchants who actually pay for their advertising spots.

Now that AFTH is airing and that guy is getting the chance to speak in front of the camera, I think he's showing just how much he does and doesn't know. . .or at least what his organization's sponsors are telling him to say.

mysaygrace
Sep. 26, 2011, 01:52 PM
Thank you PRS for explaining to China Doll why some of us are tired of listening to Mr. Tomscrima. I don't recall anywhere in my post saying Mr. Tomscrima is rude by the way, I thought this but never said it, lol. I just posted that he's really turned a lot of folks off by his misinformation on treeless saddles & the FEI, advertising here on the message board & not answering questions we have asked him, etc. If he sincerely wanted to fix some of ACTHA's "growing problems" then he would answer the questions being asked on this message board and/or take some of what is being said here as suggestions. Good for you that you never had problems with the auto renewal fee being a problem, but obviously more than one person here has had problems with it. I appreciate those that had problems with the auto renewal problem suggesting that this should be addressed & warning others about the way it's set up, I don't consider that being rude. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but don't say we're being rude to Mr. Tomscrima when we have questions & some of us choose not to join this organization.

China Doll
Sep. 26, 2011, 11:05 PM
FYI.

Well my membership just auto renewed which I really wasn't expecting as I knew I would not have checked that box. Upon further investigating it is stated that when you authorize charge your card it says it auto renews in the print following. So you cannot join at all with out automatically renewing.

I do not like that feature and asked them to make it a seperate box. They said they would take it into consideration.

PRS
Sep. 27, 2011, 09:05 AM
FYI.

Well my membership just auto renewed which I really wasn't expecting as I knew I would not have checked that box. Upon further investigating it is stated that when you authorize charge your card it says it auto renews in the print following. So you cannot join at all with out automatically renewing.

I do not like that feature and asked them to make it a seperate box. They said they would take it into consideration.

Just don't hold your breath for that to be fixed. "taking into consideration" is a far cry from "Oh wow we need to fix that!" The fact is that they are aware of it and don't care as long as the money keeps coming in. The only way you can get out of it is to protest the charge through your credit card company.

clm08
Sep. 29, 2011, 10:34 AM
I had the auto renewal just occur to me. It is not a separate box you check if you elect it - when you pay your first time membership it requires you to enable auto renewal as it is the only option when you submit your CC info. You have to be clever enough to find where in their website you can disable the feature (in Your Account).

I complained to ACTHA and asked for cancellation of my membership and refund, and got an email back saying I will get a refund minus $5 "office fee" to process my request.:mad:

Other merchants/organizations that offer the auto renew feature have it as a separate check box, NOT as the obligatory default as ACTHA does. I pointed that out to them, but don't expect to see any changes. They are making money in a shady way by their own choice.

mysaygrace
Sep. 29, 2011, 10:44 AM
clm08 - I'm sorry to hear about the $5 "office fee" what a freaking scam! They are crooks, I'm passing this information on to all horse friends I know so they don't get taken like other people have, this is very wrong! "Growing pains" or not they shouldn't have charged you a $5 "office fee" when they are well aware their auto renewal process has some issues. So very glad I never joined this organization. Way to go ACTHA with promoting yourself!!! Your actions are speaking louder than words!

katarine
Sep. 29, 2011, 10:47 AM
FYI.

Well my membership just auto renewed which I really wasn't expecting as I knew I would not have checked that box. Upon further investigating it is stated that when you authorize charge your card it says it auto renews in the print following. So you cannot join at all with out automatically renewing.

I do not like that feature and asked them to make it a seperate box. They said they would take it into consideration.

Can't say you weren't warned ;)