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nylonalter
Jul. 23, 2011, 10:40 PM
The barn had a flood. This happened earlier this year also. The BOs need advice on how to stop it. Can COTH help?

This is the farm.

0_______
|x
| ____
|(____)
|
| [ ]
| [ ]
| [ ]
| [ ]


The lines on the top and side are mountains. The water runs down and comes to the farm where the mountains connect. I put an 0 there.

The oval is the outdoor riding ring. My stick art is not good. :lol: It should be turned 45 degrees like 0. There is a pipe where the X is. The water should go in that pipe and under the ring.

When the rain is very hard, the pipe gets blocked. Rocks and mud clog it. The stream runs through the outdoor ring and into the barn. The barn is the boxes on the left.

The BO wants to tear down the ring. The outdoor ring is not the best. It is not level. It is higher at the top and goes down to the barn. One side is higher than the other. The footing is clay. It is not packed down. There are slippery wet spots almost always. Sometimes there are hoofholes in hard dirt. It is the ONLY place to do ring work. There is no indoor. There is no other place to ride outdoors except the trails. I can not do ring work in the forest. I like trails but I want to do other things too.

How can we stop the ring and barn from flooding? Can we help the ring? The BO will not spend a lot of $ on it. They will have to pay to fix from this damage, so they can not afford it.

Has anyone fixed something like this?

sk_pacer
Jul. 23, 2011, 11:37 PM
If it were me, I would tear out the ring over the pipe, and change the pipe to a srainage ditch and run the ditch beside the barn to keep the water out. Curiosity compells: why a pipe instead of a more sensible culvert?

Guin
Jul. 24, 2011, 07:47 AM
I think no matter how many suggestions you get here, the BO really has to hire a landscape engineer for this problem. They will be familiar with your area and be able to survey the topography to make recommendations. When it comes to re-routing natural flooding and relocating an arena, you need a professional.

ReSomething
Jul. 24, 2011, 10:14 AM
If they are absolutely positively on a tight budget there is always the public library for books in the landscaping section that might help the BO's fix up the existing drainage. I am going to assume you used the word pipe to mean a generic water carrying device that is well sized, like a foot in diameter at the very least. If it is too small this will be a waste of time.
If the BO's have an army of shovel and pick wielding workers and own the property ahead of the outdoor's drain one can always dig impoundments to slow the water and provide a settlement area for the mud and the rocks, but it takes a lot of room and some fortune to get it right without the services of a professional - civil engineer, landscaper, backhoe company are all resources.
This is why money spent to build an arena properly the first time is money well spent. Good luck!

nylonalter
Jul. 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
I thought a pipe and a culvert were the same. The pipe is 2 feet or more wide. Branches from timbering helped clog it also. They tried putting a grate over it but it clogged.

Many places flooded that day. 4 inches of rain fell in 2 hours.

SKPacer, the stream flows down below the ring now. I think they filled in.

I think they could dig out the stream. It is small and steep.

sk_pacer
Jul. 24, 2011, 02:06 PM
Well, there's the whole problem - filling in a streambed (don't ask or you will get a long whinging litany about filling in a blind creek). It ain't gonna be a pleasant or easy job but if they dug out the fill, I would think most of the problem would be alleviated.

nylonalter
Jul. 24, 2011, 03:09 PM
I would like to help them keep their ring. There is no other place for one. The pastures are rented. The owner does not want them ridden in. Do not ask.

Is there a way to plan for so much rain?

ReSomething
Jul. 24, 2011, 04:29 PM
. . . Is there a way to plan for so much rain?

Well, honestly, no. If you think about it this is why there are floods on city streets and people's houses end up underwater near rivers, because the cost of making something absolutely flood proof can be astounding so most projects are engineered to a 100 year flood standard. And the standard does not mean the height occurs every hundred years, it could happen three times in one year and then not again for three hundred (although weather patterns are rendering some flood standards obsolete).

Going back to my statement about spending a lot when putting together an arena - well maybe that arena should have been situated elsewhere on the property, or the property should have been massively graded to re-route the existing stream completely, or the first person that looked at the place thinking to put horses and a barn etc should have passed on that property and found something else, that drained better to begin with.

ETA that's not to say you can't plan better or make something work better, it's just harder.

nylonalter
Jul. 24, 2011, 08:50 PM
Unless they tear down the mountain there is no other place. They worked hard to buy this hilly farm. They have a lovely barn that they built by themselves. They have nice forest. They are very kind. I would like to help them. If the ring is destroyed I may move. Or build a ring in the forest. :)

I think the expert should be called. I think the person who did the ring did not do it right. Would a landscape company help? Or does it need to be an engineer? Where are those found?

ReSomething
Jul. 24, 2011, 09:13 PM
Unless they tear down the mountain there is no other place. They worked hard to buy this hilly farm. They have a lovely barn that they built by themselves. They have nice forest. They are very kind. I would like to help them. If the ring is destroyed I may move. Or build a ring in the forest. :)

I think the expert should be called. I think the person who did the ring did not do it right. Would a landscape company help? Or does it need to be an engineer? Where are those found?

Civil engineers do this kind of work. Landscape architects. Companies that specialize in earthmoving will often do arenas. Some list in the Yellow pages, some are online and some restrict their business to referrals only, generally from general building contractors (developers) or architects.

The problem as I see it is that these professionals are often very expensive. I know of an arena that was redone with state of the art drainage and footing and it was tens of thousands of dollars.

You may mean well, but your BO's may not have the budget for this.

I will tell you this, that I rode in an arena that was not level and we jumped in it too. All the diagonal lines either went a little uphill or a little downhill. It wasn't perfect but it was good to learn to balance in changing conditions. They had put several inches of sand on top of stone dust on top of large gravel. The slope helped it to drain naturally, even though we did have some "quicksand" at the lowest point after every rain.

Remember, 4 inches of rain in 2 hours is an epic amount of rain.
I hope you and your BO's can put something together that works for all of you.

Watermark Farm
Jul. 24, 2011, 09:20 PM
They really need to get a consult with a soil engineer or engineering geologist who knows the area well.

nylonalter
Jul. 24, 2011, 10:26 PM
I will see if they know any people. I think they do not. They would have already used them. I suggested a floodwall around the barn. They thought I was kidding.

These storms we get a lot. 4 inches is not strange. It usually happens somewhere else. My mother's house flooded the basement in a storm like this. Water has to go somewhere. It sometimes goes where it is not wanted.

SanJacMonument
Jul. 25, 2011, 10:32 PM
No, no, no....there is a term for the expert in this area....

A Hydrologist .... and maybe a Geologist that has maps in natural fault lines in your area.

My father hired a local Hydrologist and a local university Geologist to help with his neighborhood/area water flooding problem.

Look for a Hydrologist first...and I do know smart and large barns use Hydrologists too to help them work the water issues off of large-footprint barns and arenas. (Not this year) Water is a big issue in Houston and surrounding areas as we are mostly flat and have large deluges of rainfall.

Good luck!

LLDM
Jul. 25, 2011, 10:41 PM
Is there a local extension agent? That would be the first place to go. They can steer your friends in the right direction and know all the resources available - probably the relative costs too. Many farms have drainage issues. That sort of thing is what extension agents are for!

SCFarm

nightsong
Jul. 26, 2011, 05:24 AM
Drainage. Give the water someplace to go. All buildings and places you don't want water (like rings) should haave the land around them contoured so that water runs AWAY from the buildings/

nylonalter
Jul. 26, 2011, 07:05 PM
Is there a local extension agent? That would be the first place to go. They can steer your friends in the right direction and know all the resources available - probably the relative costs too. Many farms have drainage issues. That sort of thing is what extension agents are for!

SCFarm

I did not know this. There is an agent. He is close by I think. That is good.

nylonalter
Jul. 26, 2011, 07:06 PM
All buildings and places you don't want water (like rings) should haave the land around them contoured so that water runs AWAY from the buildings/

This is the problem. The barn is not at the highest point on the land. When water runs off the mountain and is blocked, it goes downhill. To the barn.

A floodwall sounds very good. :yes:

ReSomething
Jul. 26, 2011, 08:38 PM
This is the problem. The barn is not at the highest point on the land. When water runs off the mountain and is blocked, it goes downhill. To the barn.

A floodwall sounds very good. :yes:

You know, I don't know if you want to let us see the site without your BO's knowledge and consent, but google maps has a lot of good close up aerial views, and a site called www.terraserver.com (http://www.terraserver.com) oftentimes has very small scale oblique aerial photography (which it looks like they are discontinuing as of tomorrow, which is too bad, but the downloads are on sale!).
Printing out the photographs is very useful for drawing out where the water goes, what you want to move or build up to change where it goes. Always be careful that your new path for the water doesn't mess something up like wash out a driveway or make a flood on the neighbor's place.
If you go to the extension agent they might print out some for you or have topo maps, but they are really very useful for this stuff.