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Xfactor
Jul. 19, 2011, 06:23 AM
I have a youngster (2 yr old colt) that I am patiently waiting to grow and mature for starting u/s. Trainer lined up, now we just wait til he's ready.

Just wondering how all you cob folks are doing with yours?
At what levels are you? Do you find judges are at all negatively biased? ( as in, some judges love Fresians some hate them before they enter at A)

I'm very very pleased with my boy thus far; as a colt he has yet to hit any fuglies or gawkies. Very very bright...a little hot, but not insane.

Just wondering how, overall, the Cobs fare in the shows.

I bought what I love beacuse at the end of the day, I have to 'love" it, even tho he isn't a breed specifically bred for dressage.

Cardi, well we all know Cardi is doing well.:)
What about the rank and file Cobs out there?

BaroquePony
Jul. 19, 2011, 06:43 AM
:lol:

Lost_at_C
Jul. 19, 2011, 07:02 AM
I haven't competed a cob myself (well, maybe back in the dark ages when I was still in jodphur boots), but I've had a number of friends who do, and a couple of students who dabbled with dressage on their hairy beasties.

I'm not sure from your question what type of cob you have... Ultimately, you have to realise that there is a vast range of physical types that fall under the "cob" category... The difference between a sport-bred welsh cob and an average "gypsy" cob for example. Also, I wouldn't catergorize a Friesian as a cob. In general terms though, I don't think there's much outright judging bias, but in general horses with proportionally short legs will struggle if they can't track up sufficiently. It comes down to the individual horse's conformation, as with all other breeds.

I do think any time you choose a non purpose-bred horse for dressage you have to love the journey of dressage and be willing to compete against your own goals rather than worry too much about placings. Best way to go IMO.

Tamara in TN
Jul. 19, 2011, 08:57 AM
http://www.annwylid.com/

she has ridden <6> ? at least
she would know.

Tamara

Tamara in TN
Jul. 19, 2011, 08:58 AM
I'm not sure from your question what type of cob you have... Ultimately, you have to realise that there is a vast range of physical types that fall under the "cob" category... .

there is only one kind of Cob with a capital "C" however.

Tamara

jcotton
Jul. 19, 2011, 09:03 AM
I have section D Welsh Cob that I ride at 3rd level now. I have done most all the training myself. I do get some help with him.
It is hard work to get a ground loving horse to have suspension without running. But it can be done, I just don't expect everytime I ride and work deligently at it.
He is by Kentchurch Chime, out of Princess Rosina. Bred by Mary Alice Williams. He is buckskin and 14.2 1/2 hands (-not a pony!).
I love his funny personality, work ethic and that he is-a Welsh Cob.
What is your Cob's breeding?

BaroquePony
Jul. 19, 2011, 09:09 AM
there is only one kind of Cob with a capital "C" however.

Tamara

:lol:

priceless ... :lol:

Tamara in TN
Jul. 19, 2011, 09:36 AM
Amy Riley is riding two"up nawth" (I think maybe Mass???)Apollo and Auryn
Lisa Darling is riding at least four in AZ.(Monty and Resolute and Maddie and the other buckskin name escapes me...)
There is always a strong TX contingent thanks to Chime and Madoc Stud there.
Celia Evans has ridden them for at least a decade in N. Fl.(Daffyd)
Lisa Brezina has Dundee in Indiana.

need more coffee for the others :>

Tamara

Xfactor
Jul. 19, 2011, 10:11 AM
Haha.yes I get the capital "C". ;)

Grandsire Kentchurch Chime and also Nebo Calanog; sire Gallod Replica.

His gaits are very very elasticky and he has phenomenal extension. he is not at ALL stumpy. Beautiful long, arched neck, nicely uphill. Good bone and substance but not heavy and overdone. He's very light on those Cob feet of his. =)
Right now he's already taller than both parents; Rep is a C, Tori his Mom is a D.
I'm not terribly large, so I would like him to stay around 14-14'1ish...but I'm thinking he is going to easily pass that.

If I can figure out how to post a pic link I will. Mind you, he is just 2. =)

My personal goals are not really to reach GP level. I started riding wayyy too late in life to imagine that as a rider, I am ever hitting that level even on a school master. Ya never know, but that isn't my actual goal.
If it turns out he is cruising along, level-wise and I am an albatross, I'll have my trainer do some showing for me. =)

I'm really more about the process and journey and pushing to where we CAN go together, with also being versatile enough to hack out, and do a lot of other interesting things.

Just am interested in how overall, they tend do do in upper levels.

Thanks for the responses. =)

Xfactor
Jul. 19, 2011, 10:13 AM
Ah..and my colt's dam is Madoc Queen Victoria. =)

friesian4me
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:11 AM
I have a 5yo out of Northforks Cardi who does double duty as a combined driving horse and a dressage horse. Did his first recognized show at Training level last weekend. Lots of fun!

tempichange
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:18 AM
I compete a cob at third, and are preparing to do 4th/PSG in a few weeks. Just earned the bronze on her. Mostly self trained with excellent help along the way.

She likes the upper level work. However, her main weaknesses are the mediums and extensions. Her plus is the canter, walk and lateral work.

Great work ethic, and mind. Wouldn't trade her out for the world.

Daventry
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:30 AM
I'm finding there are more and more riders showing Cobs in dressage all of the time. Tamara started a good list of some of the ones out there showing ;) Banquo Welsh Cobs www.banquocobs.com (http://www.banquocobs.com) also regularly competes with her Cobs in dressage, especially with her mares, and most are Gallod breeding.

I show Section D Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap in dressage as well...although we kind of took a hiatus from showing in dressage the last year or two to concentrate on the Welsh circuit.

To answer the OP's question, I personally haven't seen a bias against the Cobs in the ring. For the majority of judges out there, a good ride is a good ride...whether you are on a warmblood or a donkey! :lol: I've been showing dressage for approximately 20+ years, and the only thing I've noticed with showing Cobs is that I'll often have the judge ask me at the end of the test, "What breed is he?". ;)

Lost_at_C
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:31 AM
there is only one kind of Cob with a capital "C" however.

Tamara

That's certainly a new one on me! Guess I spent too much time in their country of origin. :lol:

Tamara in TN
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:34 AM
Haha.yes I get the capital "C". ;)

sire Gallod Replica.

Thanks for the responses. =)

A great pony...I have one of his sisters :)

Tamara

Xfactor
Jul. 19, 2011, 02:35 PM
I should have been more clear. I meant WELSH Cob. Had forgotten about any other cobby types/breeds. =)

What I appreciate most is a nice Welsh Cob that is true to its type yet can also perform very respectably in dressage.
Amy's boys are quite lovely and are also out of the wonderful stud Tomas. (Nebo Calanog)
I am hoping Tomas's magic holds strong for me as it has for so many!

I'd love to see any pics anyone has to share!

As for the bias thing; well, I was unfortunate enough to actually hear a pretty negative remark about a "carraige horse" doing dressage. I was hoping that is not the general thought process regarding some of the non traditional breeds like the Fresian and Cob.

I suppose as in any and all sports there are hardcore and absolute purists. I used to compete in schutzhund and tho the trials were open to all breeds, most of the hardcore German judges would have died before giving high in trial to a Bouvier or Dobermann! =)

thanks for the information and personal accounts. Appreciate it. Now to have the next 18 months pass. =)

horseworld
Jul. 19, 2011, 02:53 PM
To the bias question - I have a story. I was once showing my half-arabian mare a rated Arabian show that also hosted an open dressage show the same weekend. At the time I also had a very young Friesian sporthorse filly that I had not started yet. Yes, I know - Arabian and Friesian crosses. I am obviously not too concerned with not having the most accepted "standard" in dressage horses.

Anywho - I brought up my friesian cross filly to the judge on Friday night. Her initial response was something like - "you bought a Friesian-cross because you thought it was pretty, BUT... they are pullers (ie - not right for dressage)". I was a bit bummed.

Well, I saw the judge the next day after the dressage tests were underway and when we spoke that time she said this: "Well, you always learn something. I just saw a Friesian perform a very lovely PSG today, so there you go!"

I took that to heart that even though there may be some negative bias towards certain breeds initially- a good test with a good horse will always be rewarded regardless.

horseworld
Jul. 19, 2011, 02:54 PM
To clarify - I was speaking with the judge of the dressage show in my previous post.

englishcowgirl
Jul. 19, 2011, 03:22 PM
I think you have already answered your question! If you love your horse and want to enjoy the journey, give it a try! I have heard that almost any horse can get to second level with proper training. You may get some "attitude" from others, but you can't please everyone! Good luck!

Xfactor
Jul. 19, 2011, 04:08 PM
Thanks Englishcowgirl; yes, I'm no stranger to going against the flow as my current horse is probably even less "traditional".

I do know of a couple trainers, my own is one of them, who are or have done very very well with their Cobs. The good ones have such great brains, work ethics and have very NON pony gaits. Like riding a comfy sofa. =)

I would enjoy pics tho, if anyone has any to share. =)

tempichange
Jul. 19, 2011, 06:38 PM
I should have been more clear. I meant WELSH Cob. Had forgotten about any other cobby types/breeds. =)


Mine is welsh, I had also forgotten about the other cobs...

jcotton
Jul. 19, 2011, 10:06 PM
Who are the parents of Madoc Queen Victoria? I think would Chime be the sire?

Tamara in TN
Jul. 19, 2011, 10:13 PM
Who are the parents of Madoc Queen Victoria? I think would Chime be the sire?

Trevallion Lady Diana

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/madoc+queen+victoria
plus photo :>

Tamara

exvet
Jul. 19, 2011, 10:20 PM
Well as Tamara has mentioned I have a small herd (both Cs and Ds) that I've ridden/competed in dressage. Currently I'm actively showing two, Pro A Resolute at training level and Gallod Morgan Henry at second level. I have competed successfully at PSG with the one my daughter now owns, Desert Moon Champignon (aka Monty). I acquired him when he was two and have trained him up through the levels myself with regular riding lessons to keep me on track. My daughter is now competing "Monty" with the hopes of qualifying for regionals. I have two mares who are in foal to Pro A Resolute, both having been ridden and competed in dressage prior to being bred. There are more than a few others I've competed in USDF/USEF dressage shows at various levels with varying degrees of success. All usually ended up gathering their own followers/fan club and generating numerous questions.

I have posted pictures in the past of my various Welsh mounts. I am owned by the breed and very happy with my characters though I will say that it hasn't always been easy. There are some things that have come harder and there are some common challenges I see with the breed. Even so I wouldn't be happy riding and competing on anything else. I personally do not think Welsh Cobs are for the faint of heart but once you gain the respect of one, there isn't anything they wouldn't do to try to please you. Most who know my "Monty" would attest to the fact that he's "special" as in "special ed" though if it weren't for his huge heart and wonderful work ethic I would have never had the pleasure of winning at PSG in a class full of, well, purpose bred horses :winkgrin:

SisterToSoreFoot
Jul. 19, 2011, 11:07 PM
Well, I am no upper level rider, and my horse is only half-cob (Welsh CXTB), so my thoughts should be taken accordingly...

But! I love my cob cross, Eragon. We just went to our first show and he was a star (the blog in my sig leads to pics). I agree with Exvet--not for the faint of heart. Before buying Eragon, I rode hot breeds--morgans, arabs, TBs. Eragon isn't as fizzy as these breeds can be, but he is a lot of horse. He's keen to work, but has an opinion and a sharp mind. His combination of smarts and extreme physical power (he can jump 5 feet straight in the air from a standstill) can make riding him feel slightly intimidating. But, he is also very clear in his thinking--he NEVER panics or shuts down mentally, no matter what. A real "thinking" horse in a powderkeg physical package-- a great combo for dressage, IMO, but a combo that requires a rider who is as "on" as the horse naturally is.

Two trainers--one a FEI dressage trainer and one a Olympic eventer--both said "fancy" when they first saw my horse pick up the trot. I don't personally feel any bias. The quality of a good cob is self-evident. They tend to step underthemselves at the trot and have powerful loins, so while they are not purpose-bred, many of them are naturally suited to dressage in type.

Eggplant_Dressing
Jul. 20, 2011, 01:28 AM
There is a cute buff Welsh Cob that did 1st Level down here with a little girl with maybe 20 family members cheering her and her pony on. She won first place. It was so cute! She had such a fan club, it was absolutely priceless!

Xfactor
Jul. 20, 2011, 08:23 AM
J Cotton, yes Chime is Tori's sire; Tamara has her ped linked. (thanks)

Exvet very interesting info.

I have to say, I haven't found my youngster to be a goofy type. His Mom is a very quiet, stoic sort, and tho sweet, she is not at all silly, nor really are Replica or Tomas.
So I see that mine has a similar temperament; friendly, kind fr a colt, but definitely not the class clown type. (my horse at home makes up for that!) I can do a LOT to him that I would never have expected a colt to tolerate, and he is the most NON bitey, coltish colt I've ever met. he won't be a colt much longer tho, as since his sire and gransire and uncles are all intact and all in one area, it makes no sense to add another....lol

I am guessing that his work ethic will be good, and he certainly is a quick learner (not always a good thing).


Exvet as far as challenges, are we talking some of the movements in the upper levels, or at all levels, some basic issues?

Yeah for you and Monty, and Sistertosorefoot, I chose my colt for exactly the reasons you mentioned.


They tend to step underthemselves at the trot and have powerful loins, so while they are not purpose-bred, many of them are naturally suited to dressage in type.

I've never actually seen any competing; I should try to track a few down to watch. seen them work yes...show, no.

The comment I heard was in relation to a Fresian actually.. I thought, seesh if the Fresian gets a comment like that, what about a Cob?

Obviously I know many many Fresians do beautifully; but, well, there is at least one judge out there who doesn't think they belong in dressage, as the "carraige horse" comment was a non subtle slam of what I thought was a lovely horse.

Oh well, we ride what we love and as you have all said, just ride the test.

I can say I will NEVER say I didn't do well because of the breed of my horses; I feel that is a total lame excuse. ( I ride a STANDARDBRED, so I make no excuses...lol) Was just curious as to what the overall success was, and if there was any perception that the above sentiment was applied to cobs as well.

Have a great day and thanks again

exvet
Jul. 20, 2011, 09:18 AM
I have ridden and shown Arabs for quite a few years; so, I guess you can say I've been exposed to some breed bias but for the most part not a lot. As for the Welsh Cobs I have run into one judge who agreed in conversation with two scribes that Welsh Cobs do not belong in dressage for much of the same reasons the one judge you mention does not care for Friesians. I had the opportunity to talk to a frequent announcer for our area horse shows. He commented to me that he felt it was ashame that in his opinion I had been unfairly scored on several of my tests over the last couple of years. He stated that most of the judges just don't understand, recognize or appreciate the breed's movement. I think there is some truth to that but the reality is that Welsh Cobs, as much as Welsh Cob people want to claim differently do not and really should not move like a warmblood. Outside of that the issues I have faced were more related to other breed traits and individual variation as well as my riding.

I have always stated that Welsh Cobs are really just Arabs on steroids. Similar challenges one sees with Arabians when training dressage I think occur with Welsh Cobs. They can be all front action, very tense and tight in the back, not truly reaching well over and through the back and be more leg movers. While that lends itself actually very well for some spectacular displays in hand and in harness, it does not yield the best results in dressage. Monty is a more nervous child. He anticipates everything and tries way too hard to deliver; however, to compete at the level he does and in the crowd he does one absolutely must push the envelope. Unfortunately that often means for an amateur rider with a full-time real job, going over that edge is all too easy.

Not all Welsh Cobs have the best canter. Some favor the trot and could trot all day long at great speeds, never breaking the gait. With all the Welsh Cobs I've owned, ridden and shown when it comes to dressage I try very hard to pick those that like to canter and then hope for a decent canter or at least one that can be improved with increasing strength/carrying power. There are of course those born with fantastic canters and I think many of us know the lines that tend to carry or pass that on to certain individuals.

Many learn to use that huge ole neck against the rider or simply develop evasions through tightening of the jaw, throatlatch and using the base of their neck to their advantage. This usually means that us mere mortals have to really ride.

As for assets, work ethic, stamina, power/strength usually come in most packages of the breed and when channeled correctly allow us to shine. I think for the total number in this country compared to the number of those competing well in dressage including the upper levels, the breed does actually demonstrate pretty good statistics (and if one looked at the breed standard, what is stated is in alignment with good sport horse conformation & movement) in this discipline.

In the end I'm simply an ammy who loves the breed. I have a wonderful stallion who has been so easy to deal with, level headed and yet a real character. I have two section C's both labeled as crazy, dangerous, etc that have proven to be very hard workers and willing participants with actually quite nice gaits, including scope and elasticity. I have a shelf full of Dover medals, all won with my menagerie of Welsh Cobs. I have to credit my bronze to my previous Arabs but I have had more than a couple Welsh Cobs who could have put that one up there too. My silver has proven elusive though I have earned scores in the 60s at PSG. Unfortunately finances, time and the need to supply my child with a safe mount with easy to ride gaits necessitated me to abandon that quest; however, I have two in the ranks who I think will still allow me to add that one to my shelf in the not too distant future.

Still I don't think the breed is for everyone. I have found a few spectators who feel strongly that they are just too thick, too strong, too this or that to be pleasing dressage mounts and prefer a more refined warmblood look. To each their own and in reality I cannot argue with their position. I happen to be drawn to something with more curve, power and character and make no apologies for that. I also happen to work 50-60 hours a week as the medical director for a humane society; so, my deficits in riding that prevent my Welsh Cobs from doing and being better are unfortunate but again I make no apologies. I'm sure better riders could have achieved even more with the same mounts. Welsh Cobs are simply where it is at for me.

carolprudm
Jul. 20, 2011, 10:10 AM
Love both your posts exvet

Perfect Pony
Jul. 20, 2011, 10:26 AM
Love both your posts exvet

DITTO! What a great read, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. I found myself nodding a few times with regards to now riding a Connemara. I find that she is tricky in interesting ways, but like how you describe your Cobs, that feeling of riding a horse/pony that REALLY wants to work and please is something very new and wonderful.

Xfactor
Jul. 20, 2011, 11:17 AM
Wonderful posts and great insights!

When I was looking for a youngster, I did in fact, look at an Andalusian and Hanoverian.

i'd taken some lessons on an amzing schoolmaster Hanoverian and felt like I was ready for the olympics...lol (ok so I was delusional, but the horse was amazing)

But..I can't tell you exactly why, I just wasn't bowled over by the horses in terms of my connecting to them.

Then, I went with a friend as she looked at a Welsh.

I'd seen a few, but again, eh ok.

THESE were amazing. The hind end power floored me as did their obvious brains.

I sort of elbowed my way thru and grabbed the colt. =P

So despite any weaknesses, they really just happen to be what I fell for, freight train and all.

I've had several Standardbreds; I'm also no stranger to totting being a stronger gait than canter. =)
It is frustrating at times, and takes some variations in training at times, I've found, at least for me and my crew.


Exvet, impressive that you work as much as you do and STILL do what you do. Kudos!

I've started my own STBs myself but have no intention of going that route this time. I want the baby started well and properly.

I'm happy with the posts you've all shared. It sort of validates what my own thinking has been, and what my "guesses" were.

I'll be taking him out in hand next year and starting u/s late next year after some in hand stuff.

great help all. =)

butlerfamilyzoo
Jul. 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
I'm not doing dressage anymore, i gave up for various reasons, mostly my 2yr old son taking up too much time and no babysitters... But i have a 7yr old Cob mare, by Tamara's stallion and a half sister to a couple of Exvets boys. Beautiful mover, a little more streamline than "drafty" cob type, but a powerhouse.

We were doing training level in Feb before i quit. I've had her for 5yrs, and you can read in a few posts on here about our struggle over the canter and how on earth to get a saddle that fit her. I felt we were destined to be stuck in Intro the rest of our lives. She has a very pretty canter in the field, but had a rushing gallop from hell under saddle. I worked so hard on it over the winter, i finally got it outside of the arena on the trail. A month of cantering the trails finally gave us the balance to add big 30meter circles in the arena and slowly i made them smaller. So i can totally say, cantering can be SUCH a challenge. And even when i had her to that point, she was still happy to throw herself around on her forehand, so it took REALLY riding her to get it right for a stride or two!

I took her to some lessons and a couple clinics with judges there, she did two schooling shows. I never received a negative comment about her. She does not move like a warmblood, that's for sure, but she tries so hard, i think her heart wins people over more than anything. I tell them they dont see her on her stupid days... ;) Well ok, one schooling show they all saw a stupid day of her spooking at everything in the arena and screaming 800 times for any horse that might talk back... The same arena she had had lessons in several times and acted half dead that i actually had to use my whip!

I "retired" from dressage to driving her with my son. She loves it more than she ever loved dressage, so i doubt i'll ever go back. She's presently laid up with a bowed tendon from being stupid in the pasture... So right now i can only hope i'll get her back to driving sound again. But i just wanted to chip in my experience with a cob in dressage. If i'm watching dressage, i would much rather be watching the cobs and friesians... I am not a fan of the traditional. I'm much happier with the breed i love. :) I kinda like driving because i dont really hear the breed bias, at least not yet i havent, this coming from someone who took my butt high, long backed mini to a pleasure driving show and brought home 3 blues, a second, and a third... The same mini scored a 78% in his training level driven test last month at a driving show. He's got a lot of heart that overcomes his build! I think for the most part, judges will always place the test as they see it, not if there were feathers flying, or a mane past their nose, or the rider's toes could touch the horse's knees...

Good luck with your boy! It's hard waiting for them to grow up! (Even harder waiting a year for them to recover from a tendon injury!) But worth the wait!

Bighorse326
Jul. 24, 2011, 06:30 PM
Tamara I am up past 4 of them now : ) I love cobs and have been around them since I was born. I enjoy training, showing, and everything about the daily routine with them. In competing in dressage I have not hit any prejudices with the judging. Granted we are only in the lower levels right now but that will change with time. I have noticed that walking to and from the ring I need to allow extra time for spectators to ask questions and snap a photo or two. I have trouble with saddle fit as the cobs I choose to ride are short coupled and paired with the growth spurts I just can not win at this point. Clever padding with a thinline has been my savior. I have not had issues with canter as the trainer I choose to start my cobs is very good at teaching them that they MUST carry themselves. I can also attest to the "cobs" are not for everyone mantra. They can be very very very smart- too smart for their own good. You must be very careful what you teach them because they will remember it and it only takes one experience. I am proud of the bloodlines backing my boys but warn against buying into strictly that when cob hunting. It is a good starting point however,each animal has its own mixture and you really don't know what you are getting until you have a saddle and bridle on them and you ask them to do something. A huge variable is in how they are asked as well as the temperment of the person asking. They will give you the world (and then some) with the right kind of partnership. I am not trying to scare anybody off but not everyone should own a boarder collie. I compete as a AA rider and am enjoying my journey with them, I was brought up with cobs since the day I was born and wouldn't trade them for the world.
I remembered my youtube login the other day and uploaded lots of clips of our cobs in training, showing, and working . There is even one of Kiddery Dizzy Miss Lizzy (http://www.youtube.com/user/53Apollo#p/u/10/0TkzY3IEQgE) (daughter of Madoc Queen Victoria - mentioned above))

xfactor you are welcome to come across the street anytime to see the "boys" - maybe even take one for a spin? P.S. They are "By" Nebo Caonog and not "out" of him. ; )

Amy

exvet
Jul. 24, 2011, 07:21 PM
I remembered my youtube login the other day and uploaded lots of clips of our cobs in training, showing, and working . There is even one of Kiddery Dizzy Miss Lizzy (daughter of Madoc Queen Victoria - mentioned above))

Wow Amy!....I regularly cruise youtube just to see if any new videos of Welsh Cobs have been posted. I got home the other night after a long day and a very long emergency surgery. I plopped down to read my many emails, most work related, and took a break to search youtube. Boy, my husband thought I had just won a new saddle or something alike 'cause I was amazed and thrilled with the NUMEROUS videos you posted. Feel free to keep updating because I'm sure I'm not the only one who loves to see them.

Lisa

Tamara in TN
Jul. 24, 2011, 11:21 PM
Tamara I am up past 4 of them now : ) xfactor you are welcome to come across the street anytime to see the "boys" - maybe even take one for a spin? P.S. They are "By" Nebo Caonog and not "out" of him. ; )

Amy

AMY !! how cool you are here as well !:)

Tamara

Tamara in TN
Jul. 24, 2011, 11:23 PM
There is even one of Kiddery Dizzy Miss Lizzy (http://www.youtube.com/user/53Apollo#p/u/10/0TkzY3IEQgE) (daughter of Madoc Queen Victoria - mentioned above))

Amy

"Face of a maid,bottom of a cook " :)

Tamara

nomeolvides
Jul. 25, 2011, 08:38 AM
Oh, I got excited because I thought this would be about cob cobs not Welsh section D cobs ;)
I imagine that the following could pull off a smart dressage test:
http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000cJ3Qr0odg3Q/s/650/HOYS-coloured-horses-25.jpg
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/s/shsuperted2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/abmad/ericrihs.jpg
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/galleries/d/6810-2/humdinger.jpg
http://www.farmersguardian.com/Pictures/inline/x/v/e/Yorks_Danielle_Heath.jpg
http://www.oakleighminiatures.com/contents/lynnpolaris.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/finglands/paddy%20at%20hoys%202003.JPG

Tamara in TN
Jul. 25, 2011, 10:15 AM
my second loves,middle and heavy weight cobs:)

Tamara





Oh, I got excited because I thought this would be about cob cobs not Welsh section D cobs ;)
I imagine that the following could pull off a smart dressage test:
http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000cJ3Qr0odg3Q/s/650/HOYS-coloured-horses-25.jpg
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/s/shsuperted2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/abmad/ericrihs.jpg
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/galleries/d/6810-2/humdinger.jpg
http://www.farmersguardian.com/Pictures/inline/x/v/e/Yorks_Danielle_Heath.jpg
http://www.oakleighminiatures.com/contents/lynnpolaris.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/finglands/paddy%20at%20hoys%202003.JPG

<3MyCob
Jul. 25, 2011, 12:36 PM
First of all...sooo happy to see so many people with Cobs here!

Second - in response to OP - I have yet to get anything but praise for my (young) Cob. Even from diehard Dressage trainers...the response has across the board been "He is lovely...and where can I get one?" Lol. I think...like everyone else has been saying...that given correct conformation and gaits, that the judging can be quite fair. My scoring has even improved since 'stepping down' (pun intended) from the tall warmbloods:)
I'm 5'0" and just feel better and ride correctly so much easier on a size-appropriate mount. I also agree with the various testaments to the Welsh Cobs. My boy is my first and I just couldnt be happier with him. Though he is definitely too sensitive to be a true amateur's horse - he is overwhelmingly kind, thoughtful, charismatic AND TALENTED! So much quicker and smarter than my warmbloods!

Enjoy!
Kelly
Welshie enthusiast in MD

p.s. My boy is a North Forks Cardi g-son on top and Kentchurch Chime g-son on bottom (out of Madoc Princess Anne).

Links to photos:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1389591027977.55042.1478155496&l=9b4dc36963&type=1

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1797022493509.104589.1478155496&l=029dada3eb&type=1

JLR1
Jul. 25, 2011, 07:59 PM
I also happen to work 50-60 hours a week as the medical director for a humane society; so, my deficits in riding that prevent my Welsh Cobs from doing and being better are unfortunate but again I make no apologies. I'm sure better riders could have achieved even more with the same mounts. Welsh Cobs are simply where it is at for me.

I have seen exvet2 in action and I can assure everyone that there are no defecits in your riding! Thanks for such an insightful post.

exvet
Jul. 25, 2011, 10:46 PM
Thank you for the kind words. I suppose there is no shame to being able to sit and survive riding a powder keg with a fuse that varies in length depending on the weather and the day :winkgrin:

terasa
Jul. 27, 2011, 12:27 AM
I just got my first cob. She isn't going under saddle yet, so I am little help re the whole dressage question although that is what I am hoping to aim her towards. Just wanted to chime in that she is exactly as others here have described- incredibly intelligent and hardworking, very sensitive, and extremely kind. My non horsey hubby made the comment she is like a border collie in a horse suit, which isn't too far off the mark. She is constantly watching me and aware of me. I'm not sure about others, but mine is very much "mine" in that so far I'm pretty much the only person she really trusts and tries to please. We're working on that - she really wants to get to know "strangers" but is incredibly suspicious. I suspect our biggest challenge is going to be learning to live with the sights and sounds of a busy show. She is very much aware of her surroundings. But the intelligence, desire to please and
athletic ability are more than there for any level I'll ever get to.
I wouldn't trade her for the world. I don't think I have ever had a horse quite so happy and willing to please, and with so much character! Everyone that meets her loves her.

jcotton
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:39 AM
Terasa,
Expose her to everything possible in a confident manner. Take her places - friend's places, schooling shows to experience the business of shows without showing. Make sure she understands and obeys voice commands and respects you.
Incredibly intelligent - means you have to think faster than her and not let her think faster or be creative to get out of the job.

Xfactor
Jul. 27, 2011, 09:43 AM
Thank you all for your great responses. =)

Bighorse I would love to watch you show if you have any in the area; maybe Beland?

Thank your for correcting my ignorant phrasing, in terms of "by" versus "out of...been in dogs far too long, I'm afraid, and breeding terminology in horses is foreign to me.
One way or the other, we are blessed to have what we have in our midst. So many lovely cobs!

Butler, at the urging of my trainer, I tried an Ansur. I did not think I would like it at all, but I actually LOVED it.
The Carlton feels like an actual honest to God saddle, as does the Konklusion, but the Konklusion and my private area were at odds...so I personally am not a fan of that model. ;)
They look like "real" saddles and are much improved from their early days. Just a thought.

I can use the Ansur on my funky withered horses or my non withered. Now that I have ridden in one, other saddles feel rigid and lacking in feel; my horse goes better than he ever did in my Albions.

I'm so excited to hear about the breed u/s; nice to have an inkling as to what to possibly expect.

I've chosen a wonderful trainer to start him, so he will have an excpetional start. He does, unfortunately have ME as his long term rider. So in terms of scoring, I suspect his scores will never be what they could be with someone more skilled.
I bought him to enjoy for the long haul, and to be part of the family as well as a performance horse. I can definitely see how they could be very addictive.
This will be my one and only, as I have a couple rescues I've taken on, and already had my off track adoptees. My Welsh Cob is my punctuation mark as the horse that takes me thru my golden years. =)

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:39 AM
there is only one kind of Cob with a capital "C" however.

Tamara

There are no cobs with a capital "c".
A cob is a type of horse, crunchy bap, or muddy building material.

( I have just started a round Andalusian and did not want to buy an expensive saddle, as I plan to sell him. I found that a Freeform did very nicley in the ring and out trail riding http://treelesssaddle.com/freeform/ )

alto
Jul. 27, 2011, 10:50 AM
The breed society for the Welsh breeds has four sections, primarily distinguished by height, but also by variations in type: the Welsh Mountain Pony (Section A), the Welsh Pony (Section B), the Welsh Pony of Cob Type (Section C), and the Welsh Cob (Section D). Welsh ponies and cobs are known for their good temperament, hardiness, and free-moving gaits

Depending on context it is appropriate to use upper case letters for both Welsh & Cob ie as a breed name just as one uses an upper case L for Lusitano etc

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:50 AM
Depending on context it is appropriate to use upper case letters for both Welsh & Cob ie as a breed name just as one uses an upper case L for Lusitano etc

Welsh is a proper noun, and cob is a common noun.

cob = a strong horse with short legs.

Xfactor
Jul. 27, 2011, 01:01 PM
Forelegs
Set square and not tied in at the elbows. Long, strong forearms. Knees well developed with an abundance of bone below them. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense. When in the rough, a moderate quantity of silky feather is not objected to but coarse, wiry hair is a definite objection.


Hind Quarters
Lengthy and strong. Ragged or drooping quarters are objectionable. Tail well-set on.

Hind Legs
Second thighs, strong and muscular. Hocks, large, flat and clean, with points prominent, turning neither inward nor outwards. The hind legs must not be too bent and the hock not set behind a line falling from the point of the quarter to the fetlock joint. Pasterns of proportionate slope and length. Feet well-shaped. Hoofs dense.

I don't see "short legged" as part of the breed description?

Admittedly my exposure to the breed has been somewhat limited, and as BigDog's was probably the first one that caught my eye and made me go "WOW" at a clinic some years back, I tracked down the lines and found one of my own. Honestly haven't seen a short legged one in the lot. ;)

alto
Jul. 27, 2011, 02:08 PM
Welsh is a proper noun, and cob is a common noun.

cob = a strong horse with short legs.

Nope - in this instance it is part of the breed name used to distinguish which subsection ie A, B ,C or D.
But Welsh cob may also be used as a descriptive term & not as a breed name, hence the confusion - just as Welsh Pony or Welsh pony may both be correct.

Of course there is also American (ie US) English, Canadian English & hmmm English (my NA bias shows here as I have no idea how to designate "UK" english :lol:)

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 02:14 PM
I don't see "short legged" as part of the breed description?



A cob is a type, as is a warmblood. Having a registry does not confer the status of "breed".

Breed suggests that the subject is unique. That is not the case. The Welsh cob may some day become unique through selective breeding, but the registry has only been in existence since 1901.

Tamara in TN
Jul. 27, 2011, 02:40 PM
110 years of recorded pedigrees does not make an animal a breed?

Tamara

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:00 PM
In evolutionary terms 110 years is nothing. Recording pedigrees makes no material difference to the characteristics of a horse.

Tamara in TN
Jul. 27, 2011, 04:03 PM
so quarter horses and morgans and saddlebreds are not breeds either?

Tamara

alto
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:11 PM
The concept of "breed" is an artificial & arbitrary designation by humans to confer information about a creation whether it be plant, animal or insect; the definition of "breed" as it applies to that particular creation is established by some associated governing body - whether your "breed" is accepted by the public at large depends on many factors (not the least of which is marketing).

If you want to bring in evolution then you are discussing species & those too are often subjects of human arbitration.


Recording pedigrees makes no material difference to the characteristics of a horse.
that is correct :lol: a section a welsh pony is as recognizable as an equine, as a percheron is, and neither would be a breed by your definition (the percheron stud book was started in 1893) - both are merely horses.
I personally though would be very aghasted to find a welsh section a pony harnessed to my dray wagon one morning in place of my percheron :eek: :confused: :no:

netg
Jul. 27, 2011, 05:20 PM
In evolutionary terms 110 years is nothing. Recording pedigrees makes no material difference to the characteristics of a horse.

Evolution would be a bunch of horses on an island together, and the changes their bodies make to adapt.


A breed based upon certain desireable traits and characteristics in which mating pairs are chosen for those traits rather than by nature changes far faster than evolution usually makes things happen. For an example, compare: Quarter Horse halter horses of 1980 and 2010.

Xfactor
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:38 PM
Oy. Ok, so I have not witnessed any" equines of Welsh origin, and cob type", that appear to have short legs. Short compared to a 16h TB, yes, but in proportion to its body? No.

And, I merely wanted to ask those who ride WELSH COBS how they are faring in dressage. Not so interested in the theory of evolution.

BUT...the tone says to me, my thought that there may be bias, is not unfounded. =)

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 06:41 PM
a section a welsh pony is as recognizable as an equine, as a percheron is,

So - what are the particular traits that distinguish a bay Welsh cob from any other bay cob ?

butlerfamilyzoo
Jul. 27, 2011, 08:03 PM
When i think of a "cob" i tend to think of a short legged, slightly thick/drafty built "hony" that usually is not going to be a big moving animal suited for dressage, possibly better suited to working or hunting.

However, when i think of a Welsh Cob, i follow the breed standard which has nothing to do with short legs, a Welsh Cob has no height limit. They should also have feathering, and extremely powerful, free moving animals, be they pony size or larger. I have never met/owned a welsh cob with short legs.

By your definition of a "cob", we could call a hafflinger a cob... But i think you are going to tick off an entire breed as they are hafflingers, not of cob type. If a cob is just a short legged horse, we could consider a short Arab a cob, a morgan a cob, a QH a cob... I just dont understand your thinking on that...

There is a breed standard to define a Welsh Cob, because it is a breed, it has a name and as a name, can be a capitol C and i feel SHOULD be... Regardless of if you think it's just a regular horse of cob type, it is not. Though the registry is a mere 100yrs old, it's a breed that's been bred for longer than that.

I could take a black and white border collie and dock it's tail, but it's still a border collie, it is not an australian shepherd... There are breed standards to define a breed, whatever breed that may be.

And yes, i'm slightly offended you think my lovely, big moving, long legged, papered Welsh Cob is just a short legged mutt....

I did try an Ansur, it just didnt work for me. I did have a lovely startrekk treeless, but my mare outgrew the headplates and it started slipping terribly. I now ride her in a treeless bob marshall for trails, but she drives more than riding. I can say a niedersuss olympik fit her beautifully, but did not fit me one bit whatsoever. Did try a pheonix, but it wanted to slip as well. Used a Freemax treeless for a while, but it would ride up her neck. I LOVED my old WOW on her, until she outgrew the panel configuration i had, and it was way too expensive to replace. I went through many many other used saddles buying, trying, and then sadly selling them... I really dont find her to be as round as most over the back, but i guess looks can be deceiving! She's happy as a clam in her bob marshall, and it's pretty darn comfortable for me too. It is VERY hard to go back to a treed saddle after being in treeless for so long. Kinda feels like you are riding a 2x4!

She's had one foal for me, that was a NICE colt, he went to an eventing home. I think there have been a lot of Welsh Cobs out there for a long time, we just havent seen them. But with more and more people on the internet and sharing pictures, we are now seeing a network of welsh enthusiasts out there showing and competing that we wouldnt have seen 10yrs ago even if they were out there. Gotta love youtube, facebook, and COTH!

Equibrit
Jul. 27, 2011, 11:00 PM
However, when i think of a Welsh Cob, i follow the breed standard


Which could apply to other cobs. There is nothing to distinguish a Welsh cob from any other cob of the same colour, apart from it's papers.

alto
Jul. 28, 2011, 01:29 AM
There is nothing to distinguish a Welsh cob from any other cob of the same colour, apart from it's papers.

:eek: ever looked at the facial bone structure on a Welsh Cob vs cob types of other uhrrrmmm breeds :confused: don't really know what term to use ... as you don't recognise breeds among equines

:sleepy:

exvet
Jul. 28, 2011, 01:39 AM
Oh well to each his own which is a mantra that Welsh Cob owners and enthusiasts understand (or should) very well. While they tend to garner a crowd and often their own fan club wherever they go..........there are just as many who, well I think it's becoming obvious.

It is nice to see that there are more and more who have joined the club. It will be even nicer to watch and share the progress we each experience as time goes on. Good luck to the "club" and please post pictures when and as you can, especially those of you with young ones.