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View Full Version : Breeders' Cup to eliminate raceday meds by 2013



CVPeg
Jul. 14, 2011, 07:09 PM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2011/07/14/breeders-cup-phase-out-race-day-medications-by-2013.aspx

...prohibited for 2yo's by 2012

Profidia
Jul. 17, 2011, 01:04 PM
This is best news I've heard from the racing industry in a long time.:D

Is just unfortunate it can't be implemented sooner. 2yr olds it could certainly be implemented immediately. Next logical step is to get rid of lasix in all stakes races everywhere. By starting with stakes races momentum can be gained to ban it once again in all racing.

Laurierace
Jul. 17, 2011, 01:14 PM
It's like banning baby aspirin in an attempt to control the drug war. Simply a token to appease the people who don't understand horse racing in my opinion.

Profidia
Jul. 17, 2011, 01:24 PM
It's like banning baby aspirin in an attempt to control the drug war. Simply a token to appease the people who don't understand horse racing in my opinion.
And what misunderstanding might that be?

Only misunderstanding as I see it is that so many participants from the backside to the front office have succumbed to the big lie that a TB racehorse can't do one stinking lap around a racetrack without the aid of chemistry. I say BS on that.

If there's any truth to that then it's high time they start breeding some that can.

CVPeg
Jul. 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
Am frankly glad to see it happen. Will be interesting to see how training records will change, especiallly for those who have never liked them in the first place. Darn.

Pat Ness
Jul. 17, 2011, 07:29 PM
I think this is a positive step forward and is great news.

Laurierace
Jul. 18, 2011, 09:31 AM
Bleeding is an anatomical consequence from asking an animal to do something they were not designed to do. They are built for max speed to escape a predator. No predator chases for a mile or more at top speed. All this does is make a return to the days of barbaric practices like withdrawing hay and water for up to three days before a race. Real humane, not but better than letting them swim in their own blood.

Pat Ness
Jul. 18, 2011, 09:48 AM
Do the horses that come over for the Breeder's Cup from another country automatically run on Lasix because they can? I doubt it and I don't think they are put on a starvation regiment either.

If horses can run in other countries without it - and I am sure they are not starved for 3 days before the race - why can't the U.S. start making an effort to do the same.

Do you have ideas on how to make racing better in the states? Things need to start somewhere.

Laurierace
Jul. 18, 2011, 10:11 AM
Yes, they do run on lasix when they come to this country. I do have ideas to improve racing but they do not have anything to do with lasix as I don't believe that needs to be fixed. I would like to see more fan outreach to get them up close and personal with horses and I want a national governing body that oversees retirement funds for horses among other things.

evntr5218
Jul. 18, 2011, 11:00 AM
True it may be a small step towards fixing a much bigger problem but I personally believe that it is a positive step in the right direction.

WhiteCamry
Jul. 18, 2011, 11:45 AM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2011/07/14/breeders-cup-phase-out-race-day-medications-by-2013.aspx

...prohibited for 2yo's by 2012
A clue is born!

Bacchus
Jul. 18, 2011, 11:45 AM
Definitely a step in the right direction. They don't need Lasix in other countries, so why do we need it here? Yes, trainers from other countries use it here, but only because it enhances performance -- I don't blame them.

If horses truly can't race in this country without Lasix or other drugs, maybe we shouldn't be racing them.

Let's hope trainers don't start withholding food/water. If they do, there should be serious consequences. Of course, the bad apples are doing stuff like that, and worse, anyway. Unfortunately, it's just part of any sport, especially the ones that include animals.

It will be interesting to see which bloodlines hold up over the years without Lasix.

Glimmerglass
Jul. 18, 2011, 12:45 PM
An interesting bit of history and questions that come from the action

DRF/Steven Crist, July 15 2011 "Breeders' Cup's Lasix stance no overall fix" (http://www.drf.com/news/breeders-cups-lasix-stance-no-overall-fix)

excerpt


Horses who used Lasix in other jurisdictions were not permitted to race on it when they came to New York for races such as the Belmont Stakes or the fall championship events such as the Woodward and Jockey Club Gold, and for the 1990 Breeders’ Cup at Belmont Park. New York was the last major racing state to ban Lasix until throwing in the towel in 1994, just in time for the 1995 Breeders’ Cup at Belmont.

Alysheba, the first Derby winner known to have raced on Lasix, was not permitted to run with it when he bid for the Triple Crown in the 1987 Belmont. Jack Van Berg, his trainer, blamed the colt’s fourth-place finish on an impatient ride rather than the lack of medication. He did not race again in New York until the fall of 1988, when his owners, somewhat stung by criticism that the colt had not won a race without it, sent him out to an authoritative Lasix-free Woodward victory.

The 1990 Triple Crown season was filled with talk of Lasix. Unbridled and Summer Squall used it en route to their respective Derby and Preakness victories, then Summer Squall skipped the Belmont in large pert because of the Lasix ban and never raced in New York again. Unbridled ran fourth in that Belmont without it, but later that fall won the last Lasix-free Breeders’ Cup Classic. Cigar, widely considered the top racehorse of the 1990’s, used Lasix in 15 of his 16 straight victories from 1994 to 1996, but ran just as well without it in two starts in New York and one in Dubai.


It’s an uncomfortable situation when you have one set of rules for a handful of championship races and star horses and another for all the rest. As things stand, we’re going to see Breeders’ Cup cards where the seven or eight Cup races will be run without medication, but the B’s and L’s will still be there for the supporting races on the undercard. Advocates say they had to start somewhere and hope this is the start of a massive rollback in raceday medication throughout the sport. Detractors are already rolling their eyes and saying that a Breeders’ Cup-only ban is nothing but a hypocritical and cosmetic attempt to appease critics.

It will be interesting to see how horsemen cope with a Lasix-free Breeders’ Cup in 2013 after more than two decades where over 90 percent of the starters used it – but even more interesting to see if it affects more than two of the 365 days a year of American racing.

Hunter's Rest
Jul. 18, 2011, 11:30 PM
European horses run on other meds. Not legal ones.

Laurierace
Jul. 18, 2011, 11:48 PM
European horses run on other meds. Not legal ones.

Exactly! But the average Joe doesn't know that so do away with lasix so we can pretend we are cleaning up racing for appearances sake. What they don't know doesn't hurt anybody but the horses.

starboard
Jul. 19, 2011, 02:35 PM
Bleeding is an anatomical consequence from asking an animal to do something they were not designed to do. They are built for max speed to escape a predator. No predator chases for a mile or more at top speed.

They don't? Can you sight your sources?

Bacchus
Jul. 19, 2011, 04:00 PM
European horses run on other meds. Not legal ones.

LOL. So do U.S. horses. People cheat. Let's hope they get caught.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to run a clean sport and have everyone on a level playing field. Cheaters suck. Thank goodness there are lots of good, honest people in racing, too.

Profidia
Jul. 20, 2011, 06:41 AM
Bleeding is an anatomical consequence from asking an animal to do something they were not designed to do.
Truth of the matter is that an extremely small segment of them actually bleed. Why is lasix not used in the morning? Why is it not needed for breezing? Fact of the matter is that trainers will do whatever they have to do from injecting blood from another horse up their nose to making them inhale barbed wire just to be able to use it.

Check out the book Run Baby Run by Bill Heller. Is a real good read folks

Profidia
Jul. 20, 2011, 06:49 AM
LOL. So do U.S. horses. People cheat. Let's hope they get caught.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to run a clean sport and have everyone on a level playing field. Cheaters suck. Thank goodness there are lots of good, honest people in racing, too.
This is for the most part what lasix is all about. As for performance enhancement that's debateable. 1st time use yes, but it seems to have an adverse effect on many horses too. The thing that makes it drsireable is that it masks many other things from testing.

Historically it was a cheaters drug in it's own right in the '60s and '70s. It couldn't be tested for so eventually racing jurisdictions caved and allowed it's use as long as it was declared.

On the Farm
Jul. 20, 2011, 07:47 AM
Truth of the matter is that an extremely small segment of them actually bleed. Why is lasix not used in the morning? Why is it not needed for breezing? Fact of the matter is that trainers will do whatever they have to do from injecting blood from another horse up their nose to making them inhale barbed wire just to be able to use it.

Check out the book Run Baby Run by Bill Heller. Is a real good read folks

Define "actually bleed." As I've stated before, a small amount of undetected blood can be just as dangerous as the two nostril gusher.

Some trainers do use lasix in the morning for breezes, usually for horses with a history of bleeding.

Very hard to take your position seriously when your ignorance on the subject is so telling.

Acertainsmile
Jul. 20, 2011, 12:11 PM
Truth of the matter is that an extremely small segment of them actually bleed. Why is lasix not used in the morning? Why is it not needed for breezing? Fact of the matter is that trainers will do whatever they have to do from injecting blood from another horse up their nose to making them inhale barbed wire just to be able to use it.

Check out the book Run Baby Run by Bill Heller. Is a real good read folks

Of course Lasix is used in the morning...vets arrive in the morning on "work" days and give shots. Happens at every racetrack, everyday.

Truth is that many horses will be put on Lasix that dont bleed out the nostrils, but may have traces of it in their tracheas. I've been on the track for 30 yrs and have yet to witness what you described.

Laurierace
Jul. 20, 2011, 12:55 PM
I use a low dose of lasix on every horse I work a half mile or over. I would rather prevent a problem than fix the aftermath. And lasix absolutely enhances performance. Its amazing how much faster they can do when they are gurgling their own blood.

WhiteCamry
Jul. 20, 2011, 04:01 PM
European horses run on other meds. Not legal ones.
Such as?

ivy62
Jul. 20, 2011, 10:27 PM
Foget about performance enhancing but why would you want to give a loop diuretic to a horse that strips the body of K+ which is needed for muscle contraction to be smooth? I never got that?

So what I understand is that everyone uses drugs, no one races their horses on their own merit?

Profidia
Jul. 21, 2011, 09:01 AM
Foget about performance enhancing but why would you want to give a loop diuretic to a horse that strips the body of K+ which is needed for muscle contraction to be smooth? I never got that?
By trainers it's out of ignorance. By vets it's about money. Lasix is for the most part their bread and butter. To dehydrate an animal and deny it water then make it run a race in that condition is nothing less than animal cruelty.


Tell them a lie, tell it loud and tell it often. Eventually it will become the truth. People will be more likely to believe a big lie than they will a small one.
True enough. The belief that a Thoroughbred Racehorse can't make one lap or less around a racetrack without drugs is the big lie that all of them have bought into.


So what I understand is that everyone uses drugs, no one races their horses on their own merit? For the most part yes. I know a few who don't use drugs but they can be counted on one hand.

Another problem is if an ethical trainer runs a horse drug free bottom feeding claiming trainers will usually claim their horse pretty fast with the belief that they can improve the horse with drugs, or at the very least because they know the animal is sound. For this reason many of them put horses on lasix that they know damn well don't need it.

Here you gou folks:
http://www.amazon.com/Run-Baby-Breeder-Handicapper-Racehorses/dp/0929346718/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311249487&sr=1-1

The Backyard Racehorse by Janet DelCastillo is another good read for any of those interested in drug-free training.

Bacchus
Jul. 21, 2011, 09:59 AM
Another problem is if an ethical trainer runs a horse drug free bottom feeding claiming trainers will usually claim their horse pretty fast with the belief that they can improve the horse with drugs, or at the very least because they know the animal is sound. For this reason many of them put horses on lasix that they know damn well don't need it.

This is so true and so sad.

event1
Jul. 21, 2011, 10:28 AM
Profidia...your ignorance on this whole subject is frightening. You should take the time that you spend posting on this subject and go truly educate yourself. P.S. My husband is a racetrack vet at Churchill, Keeneland, Fairgrounds and currently Saratoga. Administering Lasix to racehorses is hardly about the money and I can assure you-is NOT for the most part our bread and butter.

Laurierace
Jul. 21, 2011, 11:16 AM
I think the vets will be relieved not to have to give lasix any more. It takes up a huge amount of their time on a daily basis and is dirt cheap. Without it they will get to spend their time scoping and dispensing antibiotics which have a much larger profit margin than lasix.

grits
Jul. 21, 2011, 12:19 PM
Some interesting perspectives from Steve Haskin, Lenny Shulman, and Kenny McPeek in the current And They're Off video from BH (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/watch/21345DE1-653B-44EB-B8CF-49D3835700F5)- especially concerning the cumulative effects of diuretic during the TC races.

Profidia
Jul. 22, 2011, 06:06 PM
Profidia...your ignorance on this whole subject is frightening. You should take the time that you spend posting on this subject and go truly educate yourself. P.S. My husband is a racetrack vet at Churchill, Keeneland, Fairgrounds and currently Saratoga. Administering Lasix to racehorses is hardly about the money and I can assure you-is NOT for the most part our bread and butter.
Here is todays overnight for Penn National. Thankfully racing has been cancelled due to the extreme heat but nonetheless lets take a look anyway.http://equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=ONDC-PEN-20110722D I count 85 horses entered including the two AEs. Out of the 85 entered I see a big whopping 2 that are NOT getting lasix. Most of the rest are getting bute and whatever the heck M and O stand for. All of which are administered by vets.

Some places it costs more and some less but I think $20 is a nice round figure for a lasix shot so 20x83 I come up with $1660. Not a bad take for one race day.

I already provided two references for folks to read. How much more educated do I need to be?

event1
Jul. 22, 2011, 11:04 PM
Educated enough to know that racehorses are athletes and because of that, they are all going to need a certain amount of drugs to keep them in the game and healthy. Educated enough to know that lasix is routinely given every morning for works, and that lasix is the least of the sports problem. Educated enough to know that one vet is not administering all of that lasix at say Penn National and at @20/shot...no one vet is getting rich off it. Educated enough to know what a looks like when a racehorse severly bleeds (have you ever seen it? I have) because they were not given lasix and drowned in their own blood....the horse suffers a horrible death and it is not pretty. Educated enough to know that the benefits far outweigh the cons of lasix and not all trainers take the water away from the horses after it is administered. Educated enough to not believe everything you read and when you do-know enough to educated yourself about both sides of the coin instead of just jumping to the conclusion that trainers are ignorant, vets are getting rich and the horses are all suffering from something like Lasix. And by the way, while the races were called off today at Penn National-which you think was so necessary-did you know that they race at Calder in south florida in the summer and in Louisiana at Evageline Downs when it is far hotter that it was today at Penn National-and they never cancel racing there because of the heat....this is not a perfect world you live in and horseracing is a business.

Profidia
Jul. 23, 2011, 12:14 AM
Educated enough to know that racehorses are athletes and because of that, they are all going to need a certain amount of drugs to keep them in the game and healthy. Athletes yes. average age between 2 and 4. Not even mature horses. 'Nuther words about the same as high school athletes. Do high schoolers need drugs too? Not by a long shot. Is BS.
Educated enough to know that lasix is routinely given every morning for works, and that lasix is the least of the sports problem. Is as you fully well know used to cover up worse drugs from testing.
Educated enough to know that one vet is not administering all of that lasix at say Penn National and at @20/shot...no one vet is getting rich off it. Is about twice as many vets at all the tracks largely because of such legalized drug abuse.
Educated enough to know what a looks like when a racehorse severly bleeds (have you ever seen it? I have) because they were not given lasix and drowned in their own blood....the horse suffers a horrible death and it is not pretty. For the most part they usually quit running. True bleeders (which very few of them are) will bleed through lasix, clenbuterol, or any other concoction you wish to administer trying to influence the outcome of a race.
Educated enough to know that the benefits far outweigh the cons of lasix Try it yourself sometime. I've known people with heart issues that have used it. Is not pleasant.[QUOTE] and not all trainers take the water away from the horses after it is administered. Sorry but yes they do. Is the way the stuff is used. Shot is given and water is taken away 4 hrs before horse runs.
Educated enough to not believe everything you read and when you do-know enough to educated yourself about both sides of the coin Fine, provide some pro-drug propaganda of your own to convince me. BTW Chairman of the Jockey Club agrees with me so I think that pretty good company.
And by the way, while the races were called off today at Penn National-which you think was so necessary-did you know that they race at Calder in south florida in the summer and in Louisiana at Evageline Downs I'm well aware of the summer and winter racing schedules.
when it is far hotter that it was today at Penn National- Doubt that. Today set records across the country. Was hotter in Maine than Florida for first time in anybody's memory but why argue about that? You've already made it pretty clear that health and safety of horses and humans is of no concern to you or your BUSINESS
this is not a perfect world you live in and horseracing is a business. It's a national embarrassment and certainly no place for one who cares a wit about horses.

Profidia
Jul. 23, 2011, 12:19 AM
I've been on the track for 30 yrs and have yet to witness what you described.
Might I suggest?
http://www.framesdirect.com/tryon/framefinder.aspx

Florida Fan
Jul. 24, 2011, 01:18 PM
I think the bottom line here is that those of us that have been trainers for years at the various racetracks, and maintained a stable of 10 or more horses and made a living doing so, know the reality of doing the best for our horses, and keeping them in racing shape. Those who have not are only guessing.

Acertainsmile
Jul. 24, 2011, 01:27 PM
Might I suggest?
http://www.framesdirect.com/tryon/framefinder.aspx

Ha! I guess anything is possible and will continue to thank my lucky stars that I wasnt surrounded by gyps as you apparently were!

Florida Fan
Jul. 24, 2011, 04:53 PM
Perhaps some bad luck at the para-mutual windows has jaded this person's perception of the "Sport of Kings"?

Acertainsmile
Jul. 24, 2011, 05:36 PM
Perhaps some bad luck at the para-mutual windows has jaded this person's perception of the "Sport of Kings"?

Ya think? While I'll be the fist to admit all is not perfect, to paint most trainers, owners, and vets as money hungry thieves is simply ludacris.

Eggplant_Dressing
Jul. 24, 2011, 06:35 PM
A step in the right direction; my friends that show and train OTTBs for hunter and dressage would agree. Let the horse do what it was bred to do and keep it healthy for it's next career.

On the Farm
Jul. 24, 2011, 08:27 PM
A step in the right direction; my friends that show and train OTTBs for hunter and dressage would agree. Let the horse do what it was bred to do and keep it healthy for it's next career.

Your comment makes no sense. How can a horse be healthy for its next career if it assumes a higher risk of lung damage because a proven anti-bleeding medication is disallowed? Maybe your friends would have a different view if they had actual hands on experience with a horse that's suffering the acute effects and complications from a bleeding episode.

Profidia
Jul. 29, 2011, 12:56 PM
Ha! I guess anything is possible and will continue to thank my lucky stars that I wasnt surrounded by gyps as you apparently were!
If you haven't been around scumbags you haven't spent much time on the backside.


Ya think? While I'll be the fist to admit all is not perfect, to paint most trainers, owners, and vets as money hungry thieves is simply ludacris.
Your words not mine.
What I will say is the same thing noted Detective Frank Serpico said about the NYPD.
"10% of them are bad. Rotten to the core. 10% are good. Decent hard working people. The other 80% really wish they could be good"

LivviesMom
Jul. 29, 2011, 04:24 PM
I'm not for complete banning of lasix.I'm for stricter control of it.
Thoroughbreds run damn hard during a race, I cant count the number of times I've heard trainers/grooms/hotwalkers remark that their horse "ran his heart out" I am not surprised that some of them bleed after the exertion.
I agree with no lasix in 2 year olds. And reducing the allowable amounts of lasix. Some U.S. tracks allow up to 13 cc's! To me thats absolutely ridiculous. I'd like to see horses scoped by commission vets to get on the program or off of it. In most cases all you need is your vets opinion and your in the program. There are alot of horses on it that dont need it.

Here in Ontario you are allowed 3-5 cc's. Thats it. I work in a test barn and we do the pre race injections.I have has U.S. horseman ask for 10cc's and seem shocked to find out they are only allowed a very small amount. I have noticed people backing off of the maximum dose lately with the reports coming out. I've been in the test barns 3 years and I have only ever twice had to report horses to the commission vets for post race bleeding. They go on the vets list and are required to work twice before they are cleared to race and are monitored before they are allowed off the list.

But I agree with Laurierace that there are bigger issues than lasix. This is why I LOVE what I do in the test barn. We're doing our best to keep racing clean, it doesnt always work but catching a cheater does feel good, for the horses sake.