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Melzy
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:35 AM
Who is going to George Morris' 3 day clinic at Rich Fellers' place besides me? I will be there to audit on Dec. 5-7. I'd loff to meet some of you. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Melzy
Nov. 19, 2003, 10:35 AM
Who is going to George Morris' 3 day clinic at Rich Fellers' place besides me? I will be there to audit on Dec. 5-7. I'd loff to meet some of you. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

ReeseRoo81
Nov. 19, 2003, 11:08 AM
Hey I'm from Maryland too and would love to audit a GM clinic- where is Rich Fellers place? Also how much per day to audit?

ReeseRoo81
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:53 PM
Bump...

JrJmpr1783
Nov. 19, 2003, 04:59 PM
I think the one Melzy is referring to is in Oregon at Rich Fellers farm. There is one every year in Maryland at the Krome's farm Persimmon tree in Westminster. Maybe you can audit next year!

Melzy
Nov. 19, 2003, 09:00 PM
ReeseRoo81, Rich lives in Wilsonville, Oregon. It cost $60/day to audit all 3 sessions or $25/session.

JrJmpr1783 is correct. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

ReeseRoo81
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:09 AM
Thanks guys! Yup.. Oregon is a little far for me!

Khataan
Nov. 20, 2003, 07:45 AM
What is Rich up to these days?. I knew him back when I was in high school.

Democrats were quick to point out that President Bush's budget creates a 1 trillion dollar deficit. The White House quickly responded with 'Hey, look over there, it's Saddam Hussein.'
- Craig Kilborn

Melzy
Nov. 20, 2003, 08:14 AM
Khataan, email me for more info. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cassiopeia
Nov. 20, 2003, 09:50 AM
Melzy - there are a few people from my barn who are going down to ride. I'm hoping to drive down to watch on the weekend (assuming no veterinary emergencies http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif). It's a bit of a drive from Seattle but I learned a lot the last time I audited a GM clinic and I could use a good road trip. So maybe I will see you there.

"It is not possible to conquer a horse by force. How then a nation?" (White Horse Fei Fei)
(formerly known as kml)

Melzy
Nov. 26, 2003, 09:39 AM
Cassiopeia, I sure hope you can attend without having vet emergencies. I am volunteering to be jump crew unless George abuses me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I'm getting excited already. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

AdagioWA
Nov. 26, 2003, 01:56 PM
For the Washingtonian's, GM held a clinic at Cara Anthony's place last summer, and will likely do so again. It is much closer than RF's place.

Melzy
Nov. 30, 2003, 08:15 AM
The clinic is less than a week away. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

For those of you wondering why I am flying to Oregon when I live in Maryland it's because I have a free plane ticket to use by the end of the year and I get to visit with my adopted family, the Fellers, at the same time. George is the icing on the cake! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Cassiopeia
Dec. 8, 2003, 10:15 AM
Melzy - As predicted, one of my dogs felt the need to keep me at home for the weekend by ripping his toenail off in the car on Friday, so I didn't go. But if we beg and plead, can we get you to give us the full report? Please, please, please? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

"It is not possible to conquer a horse by force. How then a nation?" (White Horse Fei Fei)
(formerly known as kml)

Black Market Radio
Dec. 8, 2003, 10:19 AM
Yes, I would like a full report, too! George didn't abuse any of the "jump crew" at the clinic I was at! (At least while I was there http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif )

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
"She's got huge...tracts of land!"

SillyMillie
Dec. 8, 2003, 02:42 PM
Me too! I didn't get to make it out to audit, but would love to hear the run down with all my heart!

Melzy
Dec. 8, 2003, 05:02 PM
OK everyone, I will give my report tomorrow. I just got home from Oregon and I'm really tired.

Melzy
Dec. 9, 2003, 09:43 AM
Here's my report as promised of "3 Days With George." The clinic was divided into 3 sections; 3'6", 3'9" and 4'6" so all the riders were pretty good to start with. It was jumper oriented but he did throw in some equitation and hunter thoughts.

George is very punctual and you'd better also be. He wore boots with spurs, breeches, an old fashioned helmet (without any harness), a heavy jacket and a microphone. He stood between the auditors on the bleachers and the horses gathered in a semi-circle line up. First he mentioned fitness of the riders as they are athletes and need to think as such. Then he pointed directly at me, who was sitting in front of him on the bleachers auditing, looked me right in the eye and said, "You're pathetic! You shouldn't be fat!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif He also pointed out a few other overweight people sitting around me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Obviously, I know that I am fat, but I am not sitting on a horse either! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I spoke up and said, "That's why I'm notriding!" George shook his head and said, "It doesn't matter! You need to be fit! You people walk in the barn every day and you need to be fit!" He said, "I may hurt your feelings, but I'm honest! I'm 66 years old and I don't ride (I think he meant compete) anymore, but I go to the gym every day and work at it. I get up at 5:30 every morning to work out. It's work people. Work, work, work." OK George, I get it. I really do. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (More on this later)

Then he checked attire and equipment. All the riders wore boots and breeches, not chaps or 1/2 chaps. A tight fitting sweater or slim vest was OK; nothing bulky was allowed. He asked a couple of riders to remove their jackets. Of course, everyone wore approved headgear. Every rider was required to carry a stick and wear spurs. No exceptions and no excuses! He preferred brown rubber reins for better grip compared to leather, not white or multi-colored ones. Figure 8 nosebands or flash attachments only to keep the horse's mouth shut. For bits he likes a slow twist for most horses. He hatesHappy Mouth Bits or any fat bit! "Tack shops have you people coming and going. I don't want a happy bit! I want happy hands!!!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif He "hates, hates, hatesblack stirrups! They are ugly and lightweight." He also, "hates those jointed stirrups because they give way when you need them the most!" He didn't make any comments about horse boots or polos worn but all present wore dark colors. Think conservative colors.

He asked the riders to "disperse, not seperate as that is not the correct word." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif "Disperse." He wanted you to "sit your crotch forward in your saddle." The angled forward stirrup should be placed with your toe touching the outside branch. He was very particular about this position all 3 days with everyone. He made them change right away if they were incorrect. "Relax your knees and have contact with your calves. Keep your back straight and lift your hands. Most people ride with their hands too low at the withers. I want your hands up with a straight line from your elbow to the mouth." He had them do short walk and trot transitions. Some of them were beginning to bunch up and he raised his voice and said, "Be a little ALERT to the other horses!" "Some of you are still green. Some of you will be evergreens!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif I loff his humor. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif He had them drop their stirrups with your feet behind the stirrups. "I HATE over bending! Today all the hunters and equitation horses are over bent. The stupid judges are rewarding this! It is wrong!" George physically demonstrates by turning his own head to the inside while his body is going straight. "You should just see the corner of the horse's inside eye; not the whole eye! Ask to bend to the inside leg while you are steering with your outside rein." To slow down, "close your hands." He wanted the horses to travel straight on the sides of the ring and bend slightly on the shorter ends. Note: The indoor ring was huge so you didn't have to bend much. "Collect with the stick and hold him." Make sure that you have contact with both reins, not just the inside. He likes the direct rein and most people don't use it. "Stupid instructors are not teaching correctly." "You collect from the hind; not the front." George took off his heavy coat and had on a tight sweater and a vest and mounted one of the spooky horses and adjusted his stirrups. He immediately used his stick which caused the horse to bolt forward. At the same time George had him collected all right! Now he was ready to demonstrate collection. He trotted and cantered in circles and figure 8's. George came to the clinic with a bad cold but he rode effortlessly. I have seen him ride for decades and yet there wasn't any visible difference because of his age. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He's such an Icon! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif Anyway, he got his point across to the riders. They all rode collected after that in both directions. This one girl annoyed him with her head bobbing. George told her, "You look like a cork on a wave. A cork on a wave!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif When it came to the jumping part, George asked Rich for "people who know jumps." Rich signaled me to go into the ring to help as I told him earlier that I would volunteer to be jump crew for all 3 days. I think George was surprised to see me after that insult he threw at me earlier. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I may be fat, but I am not lazy! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Anyway, he worked me hard lowering rails or raising them later. The jumps were already set. Rich had lots of heavy square rails which George absolutely loved. "They make a horse sharper" he said. I guess I wasn't quick enough for George in picking up a downed rail at the far end of the ring. He said, "Jog Robin, jog, jog, jog. I love to see you run! I'm doing you a favor!" I smiled back at him, out of breath and said, "Ditto." He smiled back at me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Rich has those safety jump cups that are reverseable meaning they can either be used flat or deep. The standards have lots of holes an inch apart. The cups fit into 2 holes at a time. God help me when I wasn't perfect! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I was nervous and made a few minor mistakes especially when all the cups fell off. George is an admitted perfectionist. He looked me right in the eye and said, "You have to think like a MAN, not a woman." I was stunned at first! He caught me off guard. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Then I said, "George, BUT I AM a woman!" He shook his head and said, "It doesn't matter. THINK like a man!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Trust me, I'm still confused. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I will write more later as I have to get some work done. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cassiopeia
Dec. 9, 2003, 11:11 AM
Melzy - Thank you for the first installment, great reading. Very kind of you to take time to type up the report.

The comment about thinking like a man is still bothering me - not because I'm upset that GM would show some sort of prejudice (I'm an adult and can take it for what it's worth), but because I can't figure out what he meant by it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"It is not possible to conquer a horse by force. How then a nation?" (White Horse Fei Fei)
(formerly known as kml)

Black Market Radio
Dec. 9, 2003, 11:18 AM
Wow, some of what you said is EXACTLY the same thing he said at the clinic I audited, you seem to have remembered more than me! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif The funny thing is, I could hear his voice and the way he says things while reading!

The one I went to he REALLY emphasized on out-side reins, he also mentioned brown rubber reins saying leather was too slippery (my eventing trainer feels the same way) and now I remember the gripes he had about the stirrups as well!

Devilpups (http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for government!"

MHM
Dec. 9, 2003, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the report so far!

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flash44
Dec. 9, 2003, 11:42 AM
Think like a man - you mean, with your, uh, well, nevermind.

Cassiopeia
Dec. 9, 2003, 12:04 PM
So Flash, you're saying he made that comment because she was having trouble fitting something (jump cup) into a hole? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

"It is not possible to conquer a horse by force. How then a nation?" (White Horse Fei Fei)
(formerly known as kml)

Flash44
Dec. 9, 2003, 01:42 PM
Hey, I never said nuthin!

Scarlet 1
Dec. 9, 2003, 01:58 PM
Well I hate to be a rabble rouser....but I find GM's comments about an auditor's weight to be rude, cruel, insensitive and offensive. There is no excuse to making a rude remark publically to an auditor at a clinic. I could get over this type of comment to a rider participating in his clinic, as they have paid for his perspective, but to make this comment to an auditor isn't that different than walking up to someone on the street or in a restaurant and making a cruel remark to them. There are responsibilities and certain social mores that are expected of adults in our society and I believe he is in violation of acceptable conduct. Flame away!

[This message was edited by Scarlet 1 on Dec. 09, 2003 at 08:56 PM.]

SillyMillie
Dec. 9, 2003, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cassiopeia:
So Flash, you're saying he made that comment because she was having trouble fitting something (jump cup) into a hole? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

_"It is not possible to conquer a horse by force. How then a nation?" (White Horse Fei Fei)
(formerly known as kml)_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif I was thinking the same thing....
There's an old phrase but not quite appropriate here....

JustaLurker
Dec. 9, 2003, 02:25 PM
IMHO, George's comment about thinking like a man reflects the stereotypical male trait of being logical as opposed to the female trait of being emotional. We females know that isn't necessarily true, but then again, George is a male so thinks in male/female stereotypes.

Cheers, Maggi

Melzy
Dec. 10, 2003, 08:18 AM
Scarlet 1, I couldn't agree with you more; however I know that George is never mean-spirited and he cares about health. As an auditor, I did pay him. So I guess that made me fair game whether I was on a horse or not. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He's brutally honest but he will never lie to you. If he had said something to me in a different setting, I would have to shred him. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Best wishes to you. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

eclipse
Dec. 10, 2003, 09:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Scarlet 1, I couldn't agree with you more; however I know that George is never mean-spirited and he cares about health. As an auditor, I did pay him. So I guess that made me fair game whether I was on a horse or not. He's brutally honest but he will never lie to you. If he had said something to me in a different setting, I would have to shred him.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, flame retardant suit on....but, IMHO, caring about health is NOT the same as ripping someone to shreds because of what one person percieves as overweight! We are alway's debating the weight issue here, & when someone writes in about how they are fat we are quick to remind them that "no your not, you are a strong, healthy young woman". Sorry, but what GM believes to be overweight (as witnessed by many in his Practical Horseman column), is in fact, a normal healthy weight. How many of us, have seen GP riders that appear to be so thin & underweight, that we wonder how on earth they can ride? How many of us, have seen those stick thin eq riders being rewarded because they look a certain way, not because of how they ride?

In fact, in Canada, we have a GP female rider, who to look at looks fairly large. But, when you see her ride, you realize that she has great equitation & is a brilliant rider. It's time that ALL trainers stop berating those people that are blessed with less than ideal conformation, & start to reward and acknowlege those that ride well and are great horseman!!

Flame suit on, flame away!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"errr, ummm, oomph.....brain fart"!!

QueenMother
Dec. 10, 2003, 09:49 AM
I'm a little surprised by his weight comments. At the Westminster clinic back in Octoer, his favorite student was a professional in the 3-6 section who was very very overweight. He never mentioned her weight, only her correct and effective riding of a very difficult horse.

There were other overweight riders. No comments by GM.

And there were certainly overweight auditors -- the only comments sent to the auditors were to a woman who was using a cell phone in the arena when he was trying to teach and he did threaten to walk out unless she disconnected.

CAJumper
Dec. 10, 2003, 09:58 AM
Thank you so much for the detailed report! I was hoping to ride in GM's clinic this week, but couldn't get away from work. Hopefully I can ride in it next year, but in the meantime your clinic report made me feel like I was there. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks for passing along such valuable information.

Melzy
Dec. 10, 2003, 10:37 AM
Part 2
I forgot to mention that George wanted all horses to have on a running martingale whether they used it or not. He mentioned that his German friend, Paul S can no longer ride due to an injury caused by a horse throwing his head up.

George had all level of riders practice shoulder ins and shoulder outs at the walk and trot. Lots of counter cantering in circles, figure 8's , serpentines, diagonally across the ring , etc.

When it came to the jumping exercises, he had everyone raise their stirrups, 2-5 holes, depending on how close the holes were. He demands straightness and accuracy. When he asked the riders to stop at a support pole at the end of the ring after a line of 2 jumps, he meant just that. No turning away or backing. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif He wanted you to stop in the corner the same way. It was surprising to see how few could do this simple test the first time. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif His goal was to have the horse pay attention to the rider and not anticipate the turn. The wall backs them off so you don't have to be so hard on the mouth. Everyone jumped one at a time and the next one better be ready to go but not get ahead of George. He kept changing the order to keep everyone alert. One teenager wasn't up to speed for whatever reason. She tested his patience level to the max. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He said, "This girl is making me work. She's making me work very very hard." Her attention wasn't focused enough and she kept messing up. George repeated to her, "Come on, come on. Have brains yet?" By the 3rd day, he had had enough of her. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif He said, "You need a NURSE! I'm sending you a NURSE to speak privately with you." Then he asked this lady named Kathy to enter the ring and take her aside to "NURSE HER." I don't know if Kathy was her trainer or not as I don't know west coasters. Note: If I was giving this clinic, I would have asked this girl privately if she had an attention disability or other learning disability or maybe she was PMSing???? Who knows?? I do give her alot of credit for hanging in there with George for all 3 days. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif When Kathy left the ring, the girl was better focused but not great. George said, "Enough suckling."

George wants your attention all the time. He would ask the other riders how many strides so and so took? He wanted them to watch each other and learn. Many riders were caught off guard as they just paid attention to themselves.

I can't recall all the exercises but here are some that were used with all the groups. The heights may have changed or the turns were shorter for the top group. Picture 2 jumps near the corners at opposites ends of the ring. The first was a skinny vertical to a green roll top oxer/triple. The vertical fence was knocked down by most all the horses for at least 4 reasons. It's a first jump away from the ingate, set on a corner, skinny and a square black rail on top. Jump the vertical on the left lead to the RT in a bending line, turn a sharp right towards the corner and jump the skinny the opposite direction on the right lead to a sharp left turn back to the RT and repeat. The liverpool had a small amount of water in it with a pole on top. By the 3rd day it had lots of water in it; just like at a show. George requested a lunge whip to be placed next to it, as preparation, but it was never used on any horse. The pole started at 18" in front of the liverpool. All the horses jumped it OK until they had to do it the opposite direction. A few refused because of lack of rider support. Still, George had the riders use their sticks for any disobedience. A couple of horses in the top group refused it when it didn't have any poles near it. I guess it took them by surprise because it was so simple. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

A 3' square oxer was used as the center of a figure 8. This came down alot because of the dark brown square rails. I worked up a sweat with this fence. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif George wanted you to place your horse deep on purpose. "Ride the uncomfortable distance you HATE. Challenge yourself people. Let the horse take you out of the corners." George walked to the other end of the ring. He knows very well that I'm finishing setting up the downed oxer from the last horse when I hear, "Where's Robin? I need you. Where are you?" Running towards him, I yell, "I'm coming George. I'm running!" I patted his back and said, "How are you doing George?" He grinned at me and told me to help him add the rails to the liverpool. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Another white oxer was used as a scope test. We kept raising it 2 holes at a time and making it wider. It never reached the maximum height or width for each group but he wanted to show how it was done.

"I HATE buckers. HATE them. Lift your hands and they can't get a good buck in."

If your horse goes faster than you want, "Close and half halt." George HATES sawing hands the most. "Too many people are confusing their horses. I HATE it!"

"Leslie Burr and I ride alike. Whatever her last name is now as she's been married quite a few times." http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif "Watch McLain Ward ride. He's not a sharp rider. He's a SUPER SHARP RIDER!!! A SUPER SHARP RIDER PEOPLE! Get videos of McLain!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif "Ian Millar, with a stick, is the best rider in the world! Ian with a STICK! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif " Watch Nick Skelton. Nick Skelton rides the best." A professional rider in one of the line ups was walking around and George yelled to her, "PAY ATTENTION, YOU'RE NOT ANNE KURSINSKI YET!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

SBT
Dec. 10, 2003, 10:40 AM
I think everyone on this board knows how much I LOFF GM, but I agree that this particular weight comment was out of line and really unnecessary. Maybe he was crabby because he had a cold? All I know is that if I'm sick, I'm waaaay shorter with people than usual. But really, there's no excuse for such a cruel, unsolicited comment. Melzy, it sounds like you handled yourself well. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I still loff George, but next time I see him he gets a slap upside the head. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif A LITTLE political-correctness never hurt anyone, and refraining from ponting out someone's bodily faults falls within the good manners he himself is always preaching about. Fo' shame! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Oh, and the nurse comments? All I can say is, Eeeewwwww... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif And I'm wierdly remembering that part of "Meet the Parents"...and thinking my response would have been, "You've got nipples, don't you?"

Eeewwwwwwwww.....now I've really grossed myself out... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

[This message was edited by sbt78lw on Dec. 10, 2003 at 01:49 PM.]

Melzy
Dec. 10, 2003, 04:07 PM
sbt78lw, thank you for recognizing that I did handle myself well. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif One lady came up to me and said I should have told him, "He's old and ugly!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That is not in my character though. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Part 3 of 4
The hotel in Wilsonville gave a discount if you were there for the clinic. George's room was diagonally across the aisle from mine. Sat.morning I woke up early because I was still on eastern time of 3 hours ahead. I decided to meet George at the gym there at 5:30am. He bragged on Fri. about how he is at the gym at 5:30 am everyday, right? I waited until 6:10am and he still didn't show up! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif I wanted to talk to him in private about the reason for my overweight condition. Not as an excuse, but to have more sensitivity for another overweight person before he speaks and destroys them. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I have experienced many tragic losses, in a short time span, including my dear father to cancer http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif, my mother to congestive heart failure http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif(I was her caretaker) and my 50 year old brother died unexpectedly refereeing a high school football game! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif Our farmhouse, where I grew up and still owned, burnt to the ground and we lost everything http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif(arson). I lost my 15 year job http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif that I loved and my wonderful boyfriend of 6 years. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif As a single, unmarried, childless woman, this was way more than I could handle!!! I am without a blood family and I suffer from depression anyway. I have chosen to comfort myself with food as a coping mechanism. I'm called an emotional eater. Yes, I have been getting professional help for almost a decade and will continue to seek help. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I will not allow George H Morris, or anyone else, to bring me down. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

When I saw him at the clinic Sat.am, I said, "Where were you at 5:30am? I was at the gym waiting for you!" He said that he "doesn't go to that gym (meaning the hotel's) but a real one." He said, "Sometimes he sleeps in Sat.am." Oh well, I tried anyway.

Back to the clinic...a double bounce was a great gymnastic exercise. Even though the height changed but not the distance between, all did great there. The in and out, vertical to oxer, was taken in both directions. By itself it wasn't a problem until it was added to a course. I think the RT triple bar jump before or after it excited some of the riders. There were only 3 strides between both.

A triple combination, consisting of an oxer, vertical to another oxer was used. The course was like an S turn and included 5 jumps. Start on the left lead to the corner skinny, 4 strides bending left to a one and one, and 3 right lead strides to a skinny brick wall with a white round rail on top set at an angle towards the perimeter wall, across the diagonal of the ring and repeat. The skinny rails at each end came down the most. The striding was there if you didn't cut or bow out your turns. I think the position of and the lighter weighted rails of the skinnies need to be practiced at home.

Whenever pros Rich or Jeff Camp jumped any fence, George loudly told everyone to watch their hands. Both have soft automatic releases. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif It was a pleasure to see them do it correctly every time! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It's too bad the riders in the 3'6" group didn't stay and watch the pros do it. Some of their hands were set or thrown up to the ears. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Last report will be tomorrow.

woudn'tYOUliketoknow?
Dec. 10, 2003, 04:38 PM
Here is my beef with GM calling people overweight (I've never heard him do it but have seen some of the riders which he has described as such)

First of all, I think he's rather erratic in his practice of it- I've been to his clinic 2 times, and have seen some heavier riders in them, yet he said nothing to them.

Second of all, I do agree that riders should be athletes. BUT- he speaks of going to the gym, working out, etc- so that makes me think "what IS an athlete?" I mean I look at some of the volleyball/basketball players at my college, and they are (as my dad would vividly describe) "mack trucks"- but they're as fit and as strong as they could possibly ever be! They are just BUILT big. I think what bothers me is that sometimes GM picks on the "borderline" riders- I could use myself as an example- I am 5'5" and 150-ish lbs. I go to the gym at least 3-4 times a week and I'm incredibly muscular. When I was doin the equitation as a juinor, I rode TONS and TONS every day, and weighed about 135. I was also on Atkins diet. Did I look better in the saddle than I do now? Sure. But I don't want this to turn into a weight conversation- I guess my point is that if someone is CLEARLY overweight I do think it's ok for George to say something, if they are paying for his opinion. But if they're "borderline" or just a little on the larger side I truly don't think he should say anything to them about "working" or "going to the gym" or "being lazy" because he really just doesn't if they are or not..

hillary
Dec. 10, 2003, 04:40 PM
melzy - LOVE YOUR STYLE. What a great response - called his bluff on that gym story alright! You have to take the potential negative energy of this entire situation and turn it around to something positive - and you did a real class act of that! good for you. thanks for the detailed notes, very interesting.

I am a little curious why GM does not do more judging. I 'd think he would be sought after and would thus be able to reward the riding style he prefers.

Flash44
Dec. 10, 2003, 05:06 PM
Wow, Melzy, you have every right to never leave the kitchen http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. I'm a stress eater, and I don't even really have anything to stress about.

Although riding is a sport, it is also a recreational activity. And many riders DO NOT have the time to go to the gym several times a week, with work, school, family, etc. Sometimes it's hard enough to ride several times a week, much less go work out. And I guess I could go to the gym at 5:30 am, but what to do with the kids? I could go in the evening when Mr. Flash is home, but my marriage would suffer. So, the extra 7-10 pounds stays, and since I do not share my life with GM, who cares what he thinks about my weight.

Also, many people participate in a variety of sports at the recreational level, and still want to compete and improve. yeah, we know we could do better IF WE JUST HAD MORE TIME. Just because you are not going for HOTY points does not mean you don't want to better yourself, AND IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD NOT BE TREATED WITH RESPECT.

SillyMillie
Dec. 10, 2003, 08:37 PM
Melzy,

You are one classy lady. Kudos to you. "Where were you at 5:30?" That's classic. I am sure he loved ya!

Pirateer
Dec. 10, 2003, 09:23 PM
More and MORE I am wanting to clinic with this man. If I had a horse anywhere near, I totally would. Even though he would SHRED me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hopefully I get the nerve and the horseflesh before he stops clinicing.

Rebecca and Pirateer (Pirate) reunited for 2004 show season?
http://www.bluffparkfarm.com
http://community.webshots.com/user/pirateer

Scarlet 1
Dec. 11, 2003, 05:43 AM
Melzy, You are a very impressive person and have conducted yourself with a lot of class. I

eclipse
Dec. 11, 2003, 05:48 AM
Melzy, you're my new hero. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How you handled yourself was amazing, & major judos for catching the gym (white) lie. Hey, maybe you could put that one in the "people who lie about horses" thread!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

"errr, ummm, oomph.....brain fart"!!

Bumpkin
Dec. 11, 2003, 09:56 AM
Melzy....did George steal my line about Forever Green? hehe http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

Edited to correct still to steal.... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[This message was edited by Bumpkin on Dec. 12, 2003 at 05:25 PM.]

Melzy
Dec. 12, 2003, 10:25 AM
hillary, SillieMillie, Scarlet 1 and eclipse, thank you so much for the compilments. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I loff ya'all. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Bumpkin, if you meant did George steal your "ever green" term, than the answer is yes. Reread page 1 to see how he used it in a sentence. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Part 4 of 4
On the second day, George asked a couple of riders not to ride but come back and audit day 3. He realized their "horses were pushed to their limits." I admired his candor. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"KISS. Keep it simple stupid." He repeated this a few times.

"Always buy a horse ABOVE the division you are showing in. Never below or at the division."

"Robin, ask someone to go to the lunchroom and bring me back 2 or 3 napkins? My nose is running." I immediately jogged towards him and gave him 3 napkins that I just happened to have in my jacket pocket. With a frightful look on his face he said, "These don't have the flu all over them do they?" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I reassured him they were clean. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

I'm not sure if he said this the same day or not, but he said, "I like slaves. I like slaves. You people with children have slaves; not the other way around. I see too many children with slaves." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

"Practice doesn't make you perfect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif It's PERFECT PRACTICE people!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

"I don't trust ANYONE!. I don't trust Chris (Kappler), or Rich or Jeff or anyone! I trust myself. I can only trust myself."

The top group was given a course to challenge them. At the far end of the ring, the angled skinny brick wall's top rail came down alot before 3 right strides to the angled triple bar RT, across the ring to an easy vertical on the left lead to the black skinny vertical, very sharp right turn towards the wall, right lead to the 3'3" liverpool in the center, to another very sharp left turn over the easy vertical and repeat the course. Rails were falling everywhere with these impressive jumps mostly because of their positions set in the indoor ring. A young teenage boy named, Shawn, volunteered to help be jump crew. Shawn rode in the 3'9" group previously and George seemed to like him. I asked him to stay near the black square rail vertical set near the corner. Stubbornly, he refused to listen to me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif With George, you need to be quick to set up a fallen rail. I was at the far end of the ring for those trouble spots. Sure enough, this heavyset lady's horse refused it and the whole thing came down. Shawn had trouble setting it back up so this lady in the audience came in to help Shawn. I didn't rush to help them because Shawn was so cocky that he could do it himself. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Well the 2 of them still couldn't figure it out, so I ran over to help. George yelled, "Get that woman out of this ring! She can't make her own decisions riding!" (She rode in the first group)"I don't want her in here!" http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif "I want Robin to help Shawn! Just Robin and Shawn!" Rich rode his horse over to us to make sure we did it perfectly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Shawn stayed near this jump from then on. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif This sharp turned caused most of them to faulter. One lady pro, I forget her name, totally missed the turn. Another one lost impulsion and stopped at the perimeter wall and another almost fell off her horse and one horse did slipped and fall. They were not hurt at all. This turn required your complete focus and slow pace. Rich made it look easy everytime. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I loff his riding! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"This clinic is for weaknesses. I'm pointing out your weakness, people. Do your homework. DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE, DISCIPLINE."

George walked towards the audience as the pros dismounted and gave their horses to their grooms to cool out. He passed me and smiled and said, "Do you know why I like you?" I was in shock because I didn't know or care that he did! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif "I like you because you're a taker. You take it." WOW, a compliment from George Morris! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Now I have to buy to videotape!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Black Market Radio
Dec. 12, 2003, 10:35 AM
Melzy, you ARE an admirable person! Most people would have told him to go take a long walk... He is right, you take criticism well and you take initiative! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks for the great reports!

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
"Oh bad Zoot, EVIL Zoot. There is but one punishment in the castle Anthrax for setting alight the grail-shaped beacon. You must tie her to the bed and Spank her. And after you are finished spanking her, spank me."

Melzy
Dec. 12, 2003, 10:49 AM
Thank you very much, devildog. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Can you please update my thread? I don't know how to do it. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I would like more people to read it as I have taken alot of time to write my 4 part report for the benefit of others. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Thanks in advance.

Best wishes.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 12, 2003, 11:09 AM
Melzy, all you do is go to your very first post on this topic and hit the edit button which is the one with the little eraser in case you don't know http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and then it will take you to a new screen and you can edit the name of the topic that way. Hope that helps!

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
"Oh bad Zoot, EVIL Zoot. There is but one punishment in the castle Anthrax for setting alight the grail-shaped beacon. You must tie her to the bed and Spank her. And after you are finished spanking her, spank me."

SBT
Dec. 12, 2003, 11:17 AM
Melzy, he has every reason to "like" you (whether you care or not http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ); You STEPPED UP TO HIS CHALLENGES all week, which is apparently more than can be said for many of the riders! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

GOOD FOR YOU. You go, girl! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

peachy
Dec. 12, 2003, 11:22 AM
Melzy,
Love your report, love your attitude! I audited a George clinic for the first time last year and got so much out of it. You've got a good memory for all of his highly quotable quotes...It's fun to hear all his sayings again and remember when I got to watch him. He's something else! Thanks for the report... peachy

MHM
Dec. 12, 2003, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Melzy:

"I like slaves. I like slaves. You people with children have slaves; not the other way around. I see too many children with slaves." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I just have to say, I LOVE this line! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif I may not agree with every single thing George has ever said, but he really hit the nail on the head here! Too funny!

Meizy, thank you so much for the great report! That was an awful lot of typing. Kudos to you!

Horses4sport
Dec. 12, 2003, 12:51 PM
Well, it would certainly be challenging to be involved in this clinic in any capacity, guess I'm not tuff enough. "I may be fat, but you are RUDE!" I wouldn't have been one bit happy if he had pointed me out as an auditor and said something like that. Yes, George is a wonderful rider and has certainly produced more than his share of champion riders, but GEEZ!!! No thanks.

I would like to say, however, that watching Rich Fellers ride ANY horse over ANY course is a treat. He, as a rider, is poetry in motion. He makes it look so easy. Now that is enjoyable.

*Amy*

Proudly owned by Goldsboro (Ben), Wizard, Sagenhaft (Tyler), Ben's brother, Sedona; and the mighty mini, Mountain Meadows Alladdin!

***Wow! That list of horses is getting a little too long!***

deltawave
Dec. 12, 2003, 05:48 PM
Melzy, you have a great attitude for dealing with difficult and crabby people! He may be God's gift to horsemanship, but he sure sounds like a megalomaniac and a misogynist to me!

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I'd have told him to stuff it when he said "think like a man". Show me YOUR diplomas, you little jerk! Blecch. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

Fine, he may "never lie to you" but that sounds like a rationalization of the fact that he's tactless, cruel and mean-spirited. What happened to showing respect for the sport? Shouldn't that carry over to the auditors and riders who are PAYING YOUR WAY IN LIFE???

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

rottenrobbie
Dec. 12, 2003, 06:50 PM
Melzy,
Thank you for your excellent reports...I think you have given us all a BOOST OF CONFIDENCE and the TACT to go with it! I will probably never have the chance to clinic with GM ..but based upon your first comments I wouldn't even want to be in the same County at the time. No amateur needs the dreaded comments about their pantylines or weight...for God's sake I just want to give my horse a positive clean ride!

As an amateur I have a lot more to worry about..like how to fit in riding, pay the bills,get home from work to feed and muck in the dark, etc. And I try to focus on 4-4'3 classes. Sounds like he needs to have a check in reality, not just on the top privileged riders...but maybe those who can't spend all day riding , but in despite... pull of some pretty good results with minimal time, dollars and training.

All that said , it sounds as though you guys had a fun time! Looking forward to trying a clinic with GM if the chance permits itself in the future...does he have any sense of humor????...after all without that, it makes it hard to correct things in a positive manner!
Thanks for sharing!
Sound like you all had LOT OF FUN!!

[This message was edited by rottenrobbie on Dec. 12, 2003 at 10:01 PM.]

Gayle
Dec. 13, 2003, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>With a frightful look on his face he said, "These don't have the flu all over them do they?" I reassured him they were clean. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good answer but seeing as how you had made a positive and humorous impression by then I probably would have said "Flu? No. SARS? Maybe." with a big grin to see if HE was paying attention. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I had always made the pledge to shed those extra pounds for George when I heard him rip into any MALE rider for being overweight not just the women. Mainly one in particular who is a protege of his from long ago as a child and is now bigger than the Shamu standards that hold up the Seaworld jump. Don't you just know at the Camden clinic last year he did just that! There went that excuse. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif So now I am working on it.

My favorite response to a weight comment I heard him make to someone years ago was "birth a kid tomorrow and we will judge what you look like in six weeks". He did give her credit for getting back into the saddle quickly then moved on to why basically he believes children are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Melzy more power to you for being able to continue. In Camden last year he did give another jump person grief extrordinaire and she wasn't overweight. Just slow on the uptake and definetly not up to his standards of speed and brains.

"The credit belongs to those people who are actually in the arena...who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions to a worthy cause; who at best, know the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, fail while daring greatly, so that their place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

MdLib
Dec. 13, 2003, 07:14 AM
Thank you, Melzy! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Melzy
Dec. 13, 2003, 08:46 AM
Gayle, actually he did comment on the 3 brothers that he taught long ago. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif We all know that he was talking about the Leones. He said the one with the weight problem is the most talented of the 3. So if Mark got his weight under control, who knows how far he could go. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Best wishes all.

Sonesta
Dec. 13, 2003, 09:24 AM
Melzy, you are just tops in my book. I am certain that GM will always remember you - and fondly with respect. He CAN be a crab, but does seem to respect those who stand up for themselves without being as rude as he was.

I will look forward to more posts from you.

Sonesta Farms (http://www.sonestafarms.com) - breeding Hanoverian, Knabstrupper and Arabian sport horses.&lt;BR&gt;
"Find something you love & call it work."

Gayle
Dec. 13, 2003, 12:00 PM
Melzy:

At the Camden clinic he actually did mention Mark by name. I wasn't going to, trying to be tactful (one of the rare times I was going for it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) but since it is out there. I just thought it was sexist to always slam the women and yet not mention this particular protege who kept adding on the pounds, I think related to his wife's pregnancy. Sympathy weight gain maybe? Maybe someone else mentioned it to George who knows. Either way he now seems to be an equal opportunity "offender" when it comes to commenting on the weight issue. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

And in my embarassing weight comment that you wish you HADN'T made: I was explaining to what I thought was my friend behind me at a major show several years ago that "geez, didn't Mark Leone look HUGE and that Shamu on the standard was smaller than he was, don't you think?" only to turn around and find out she had wandered off and MARK was standing there! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Needless to say I stuffed my foot in my mouth and hopped away quickly.

"The credit belongs to those people who are actually in the arena...who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions to a worthy cause; who at best, know the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, fail while daring greatly, so that their place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt

Flash44
Dec. 13, 2003, 01:51 PM
About the weight - someone needs to tell him it's all the same in the dark.

Black Market Radio
Dec. 13, 2003, 02:32 PM
Flash, http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
We are now the Knights Who Say 'Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'

Peggy
Dec. 13, 2003, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the report. I feel like I was there!

observer
Dec. 13, 2003, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> George walked towards the audience as the pros dismounted and gave their horses to their grooms to cool out. He passed me and smiled and said, "Do you know why I like you?" I was in shock because I didn't know or care that he did! "I like you because you're a taker. You take it." WOW, a compliment from George Morris! Now I have to buy to videotape!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you do care very much that he did. Isn't that the point of this whole thread?

bunnymink
Dec. 13, 2003, 09:28 PM
he may be talented but god..incredibly socially inept, IMHO!!!!


(Please, there are more appropriate phrases than the ones edited. W.)

[This message was edited by Weatherford on Dec. 14, 2003 at 07:15 AM.]

stopher
Dec. 13, 2003, 09:45 PM
That was a very inappropriate thing to say, especially on a public BB. I also notice that your number of posts is one, suggesting you can't back you comments up and need to create an anonymous identity. Get a life!

Stopher
(This comment referred to the edited post. W.)

[This message was edited by Weatherford on Dec. 14, 2003 at 07:17 AM.]

Dancing Lawn
Dec. 14, 2003, 03:55 AM
Melzy, you have just become my new hero. To have gone through so much, and still be so gracious!!! Wow. Beautiful.
And I also have to add, that the comment, " only perfect practice makes perfect" was stolen from our dressage rider Christelot Boylen. She used it in her first video tape that was made, oh, more than 20 years ago. She said, and I'm paraphrasing, because I can't remember it exactly, "Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."

less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com (http://www.dancinglawnhorses.com)

If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

MHM
Dec. 14, 2003, 06:28 AM
dancing lawn

No offense to your rider, but I'll bet GM has been using that saying for a lot more than 20 years. Who knows, maybe they both stole it from Bert DeNemethy! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jsalem
Dec. 14, 2003, 07:04 AM
Melzy- We're signed up for the Camden clinic on the 27-28th. I'm taking a student for the 3' group and my daughter for the 3'6" group.

One question: Although I'm really excited about the experience, I'm a little worried about my daughter's horse. I think my daughter should be fine. She's tough, effective and sharp. The horse is hard, though. He goes in a nathe or dogbone bit because his mouth is almost too sensitive. GM's horsemanship is legendary, but will he give a rider the benefit of possessing a little horsemanship and knowing what bit is best for their horse? We're going with an open mind and hoping to learn, I just don't want to scare the horse. I guess my question is this: does GM individualize (your horse seems to like this, or your horse dosen't like it when you do that)? Do the horses finish well or do some of them get fried by the challenges?

"Everyone has special circumstances. Trot on....."

Flash44
Dec. 14, 2003, 07:31 AM
Cheap shot, observer, which you know because you posted under an alter. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

canyonoak
Dec. 14, 2003, 08:18 AM
Gosh..how many many years has Gm been at the top of the game?
I admired him while growing up, I admire him now..and he STILL can get more reaction, more awe, mor dander up, more posts than just about anyone else in the horse world!

What a performer! he always wanted to be in the movies, and he found his rightful stage--because what a major loss to our little corner of the world if he had really walked away and taken his sharp eye and tongue and brain and expertise to Hollywood or whatever.

I can only giggle when reading the posts of righteous indignation (even on other boards! boards concerned only with dressage!!!) that STILL pop up like spam.

Thank heavens for GM. For setting standards. For demanding a bit more focus, a bit more style, a bit more care.

And I find it difficult to believe he demands all the horses go in slow twists..I am making a bet now that if the poster who asked about using the dogbone can explain to GM the reason and purpose of the bit, he will at the very least wait to see how the lesson goes.

What he will NOT like is someone telling him that 'the trainer said' or 'my hands just seem to work better with this' or any other explanation that does not give evidence that some thought and purpose wehn into the bit choice.

GM likes grownups...and expects that even children be the grownup half of the horse/rider partnership..

happy holidays to all,

findeight
Dec. 14, 2003, 09:08 AM
GM isn't going to say anything about the bit in a 3' section if the rider can use it correctly and keep the horse between leg and hand.
Many times, riders pick bits to cure "problems" the horse has when, in truth, the problem is the uneducated hands of the rider and lack of proper training in the horse. Most top level trainers and clinicians insist the horse accept the aids. That means you have to be able to put your leg on and maintain contact.
If the rider can show this is happening, any bit is fine.

I cliniced with Jeff about 4 weeks ago. After the second session concluded he approached me and said he hated the fat, rubber snaffle I was using. He said tack stores love selling them to cover bad riding and that 99% of the horses in them also learned to pull.
He said he refrained from saying anything until the end of the clinic to further observe the mare's performance.
As a result, he said she was just about the ONLY horse he ever liked in one, she was lovely in it and I have "special dispensation" to continue using it http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'd say if you are using a bit correctly and for the right reasons, he won't care. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Melzy
Dec. 14, 2003, 09:57 AM
sbt78lw, peachy, MHM, deltawave, rottenrobbie, Gayle, Sonesta, and dancing lawn, thank you so much for the compliments! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif You made my day. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Moonkitty and Peggy and others, you are quite welcome. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif My goal was to pass on my experience so that others can learn. Although I don't compete anymore, my students will benefit.

observer, everyone wants to be liked. But after George told me that I was pathetic, I didn't like him for what he said. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Still, I respected and admired him as a top horseman. I flew all the way from Maryland, got a hotel room, a rental car and paid my auditor's fee for 3 days. I was determined to learn from him no matter what! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I didn't care anymore whether he liked me or not at this point. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif The fact that he told me at the end that he actually did, made me smile. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

canyonoak, you need to read my first report again. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I said, "For bits he likes a slow twist for most horses." Your interpretation of "demand all horses" is incorrect.

jsalem, I'll try to answer your questions. George will check all bits during the initial line up. He won't ask you to change it unless you are having troubles. Maybe your daughter can bring along another bit, just in case. Being open minded is a great idea. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif His intention is not to overface or scare any horse. While they work hard, they are not rattled. Relax. He loves people that are triers. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Yes, he will give individual opinions during the final line up. Note: The organizers had a travelling tack shop on the premises. If he asked for a bit change, riders could buy one on the spot and use it right away. Most of all have a fun time. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Best wishes all.

peachy
Dec. 14, 2003, 10:13 AM
jsalem- From what I saw in the clinic I audited last year, none of the horses left the ring rattled or overfaced. One horse in the jumper section (ridden by an older professional) was very green. He took that into consideration and had her do something a little different and quit earlier than the other horses. He also ended up riding that one and another "difficult" horse that was in the 3' section as well.
peachy
I second Melzy's opinion and recomment at least having another bit on hand.

deltawave
Dec. 14, 2003, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
GM likes grownups...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then it's too bad he can't act like one. If my 3 year old son walked up to a total stranger and said "you're fat" he'd get a time out in a heartbeat! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I won't tolerate that behavior from him--he knows better, why doesn't GM? I can't believe people excuse his terrible behavior towards humans because he's a genius horseman. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

How many would forgive Albert Einstein if they saw him being cruel to a horse???

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

[This message was edited by deltawave on Dec. 14, 2003 at 02:51 PM.]

Flash44
Dec. 14, 2003, 12:54 PM
Yeah, findeight, some mares just love them, especially intelligent ones with sensitive mouths.

SBT
Dec. 14, 2003, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deltawave:

How many would forgive Albert Einstein if they saw him being cruel to a horse???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, we're not talking about cruelty to horses here, just cruelty to people. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif GM is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER cruel to the horses. In fact, one of the reasons I personally like him so much is that he ALWAYS puts the horse first. He will never scare or overface a horse. Discipline, yes, but in a tactful and appropriate way that the horse understands.

GM may be cruel in his comments to people, but you know what? We should be able to take it. The world will always be full of people who are going to offend and berate us. It happens to me all the time in my work, at home, etc. If we can't learn to be "takers" on some level, we will never get along in society. Hell, if I weren't a "taker" and I lashed out at every person that offended me, I'd be out of a job, and probably in jail for road rage-inspired vehicular homicide. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think we need to draw a line here between an insult and verbal abuse. GM insulted Melzy for her weight. He did not, however, get in her face and rip her to shreds in doing so. People insult me every day. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes accidentally, but they do it and I take it and I learn from it if I can. I actually find GM's honesty to be rather refreshing. There is no guesswork as to whether he is insulting you or not. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif How many of us can say that of our co-workers and even family members?

GM is a straight shooter. He tells you what he thinks whether you want to hear it or not, whether it's "nice" or not, and whether it's "appropriate" or not. IMO, in a society obsessed with political correctness, we NEED more brutal honesty. GM has enough clout to get away with it, and kudos to him for never holding back.

Kudos also to people who have the guts to be "takers," like Melzy. GM made a cruel (albeit honest) comment to her, but not only did she handle herself beautifully, she completely outclassed him in doing so. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

The man sometimes says things that are not nice. However, I am willing to bet that for every "mean" comment he makes, he makes about 5 to 10 more KIND comments. At least that has always been my experience. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Himbo
Dec. 14, 2003, 01:51 PM
"Women should think like men" Perhaps when George becomes a "real" man http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif he could enlighten all of us women on how to think like a man. I would love to ride in one of his clinics because it would be a great challenge and I would love to go toe to toe with the insults. Brilliant man but he needs to lose the attitude.

deltawave
Dec. 14, 2003, 04:16 PM
sbt, WHY on earth should we be "able to take" cruelty??? We don't tolerate it towards animals or the downtrodden (ideally) yet you're saying if it comes from someone who is otherwise a genius or brilliant or famous it's fine?

My Einstein analogy was to point out the paradox: would any of us tolerate cruelty to a horse? NO. Why should we tolerate abuse of our fellow humans? Honestly, sometimes I think some horse lovers could just care less about their fellow humans--as long as the horses are all right. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And I disagree that we need "more brutal honesty". IMO we need far LESS brutality in any form, no matter how sweetly it is couched or how "straight" the shooter is.

So would you define a woman who is sexually harrassed at the workplace, a senior citizen who is bullied by his nurses, a passive individual who is taken advantage of by his co-workers as a "taker"? You used the term almost as a compliment--HOW is this a good thing? "Taking one's lumps" is one thing, but "taking" abuse and harrassment because one is intimidated by someone else's status is quite another, IMO.

(erased another 3 whole paragraphs--don't want to get into any more arguments!) http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Peace, all--just stating what I've always thought about the guy...what Himbo said!

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

findeight
Dec. 14, 2003, 04:25 PM
GM has been working on it for a half century and he's not going to change.
Some look past that to the brilliance of his riding and teaching and his ability to teach the teachers.
Some can't get past his admittedly boorish side and that's fine.
But everybody should use his book as the definetive criteria for riding Hunters and Jumpers.
Melzy, I am sorry about his remark to you...but so glad you acted with class and ended up with him considering you a trier and person worth his time.

He can be quite funny and I'm surprised at how many missed the joke on the "thinking like a man" innuendo and read things into it...that's one thing you never have to do. He says exactly what he thinks..that being his problem with many.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

nyc_rider
Dec. 14, 2003, 04:59 PM
deltawave - best not come to NYC then. You'll have a hard time. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif Why can't our society tolerate directness or honesty? I appreciate it. I don't have to read between the lines, guess or decipher. Personally, I find sugar-coated critiques useless. More power to you if find them helpful.

I'm still not sure how situations involving sexual harrassment or senior abuse are remotely applicable here? I fail to see the analogy here. Melzy has rightly been lauded for her gumption and class. (I very much look forward to meeting her if the MD COTH clique has a get together!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) Melzy and the other clinic attendees paid to hear what GM had to say - good or bad. I still fail to identify the abuse. It's GM's soapbox. Don't like it -then don't listen. That's the nice thing about free speech. You're free not to listen too.

Blue Devil
Dec. 14, 2003, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
GM has been working on it for a half century and he's not going to change.
Some look past that to the brilliance of his riding and teaching and his ability to teach the teachers.
Some can't get past his admittedly boorish side and that's fine.
But everybody should use his book as the definetive criteria for riding Hunters and Jumpers.
Melzy, I am sorry about his remark to you...but so glad you acted with class and ended up with him considering you a trier and person worth his time.

He can be quite funny and I'm surprised at how many missed the joke on the "thinking like a man" innuendo and read things into it...that's one thing you never have to do. He says exactly what he thinks..that being his problem with many.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you ever ridden with him/cliniced with him?

My story is in the New York Times!
http://www.nytimes.com/uwire/uwire_TQED110720031291208.html?ex=1146286800&en

deltawave
Dec. 14, 2003, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nyc_rider:
deltawave - best not come to NYC then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's pretty much where I grew up. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I'm not a little fragile creampuff sitting here in the midwest, I just have a longing for a little less ugliness in the world. (edited to add that that refers to this topic, NOT to NY...I love the place very dearly)

Directness and honesty are FINE. Needless cruelty and bullying are not, at least in my book. I don't need things sugar-coated, but common human decency is a nice touch, don't you think?

My references to abuse and harrassment were regarding the definition of one being a "taker". I wasn't seeing how George's insistence that people "take" his abuse was any sort of badge of honor on the part of the "taker". "Victim" is the word I was thinking, since people are paying him for the "privilege". http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

I'm certainly not saying he hasn't got the right to say the things he says, or feel the way he feels, for Pete's sake! I'm just exercising MY right of free speech in saying he's a bully and a cretin. That non-sugary enough? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I will no longer ride with the BNT who took a longe whip to my horse. Wouldn't stand for the same (figurative) treatment of a fellow human, either. I'll vote with my checkbook for those who accomplish things with a little bit more class.

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

peachy
Dec. 14, 2003, 08:01 PM
Melzy-please check your PTs for a request for info on Rich Fellers. Thanks, peachy

findeight
Dec. 14, 2003, 10:01 PM
Never had the pleasure...the clinic he does annually here at Peabody Kohler Fox's place starts at 3'6".
But my friends go yearly and enjoy and learn, even get a kick out of his ego. Both my trainer's assistants are required to clinic there annually with him.
Have watched him teach my trainer's daughter several times at KHP...sat on the rail the whole time as he tortured her and several other talented Jrs. He was quite aware of my "auditing".
Also seen him around the show barn and exchanged pleasantries as I hopped on or off my horse..stood in line at the concession trailer next to him in the pre dawn chill.....

He is the real deal and I found him always polite and pleasant.

Just that when you pay him to tell you what you are doing wrong...he's going to tell you what you are doing wrong. Understand that.

I clinic annually with Jeff..and have been told my efforts were pathetic. Because they were. I was unfocused and feeble and screwed up.

If you really want to compete at top levels or, at least, really ride your best you must accept the truth about less then steller efforts. Most of the riders who CHOSE to clinic with him can take it.

I can only go by what I know or have observed or the experiences of others I trust. I have no problem with his admittedly abrasive style and would ride for him in a second.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

Flash44
Dec. 15, 2003, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nyc_rider:
Why can't our society tolerate directness or honesty? I appreciate it. I don't have to read between the lines, guess or decipher. Personally, I find sugar-coated critiques useless. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the point of paying a lot of money for the clinic (or for a lesson with anyone) is to LEARN SOMETHING NEW, not to get berated for something you already know. I think we all know what we look like when we get dressed in the morning and look in the mirror. I don't think people go into a clinic thinking they are perfect riders and then get surprised when GM points out they are not.

I guess next time I go to the DMV and the new employee who doesn't quite understand the whole computer registration thing takes forever to process my paperwork, I can just be nasty and rude to her and maybe even complain to her supervisor. Or I can just scream at the cashier when a product I'm trying to purchase doesn't ring up at the sales price. Or the mail man delivers someone else's mail to my house. I mean, why should I sugarcoat things? Just let everyone know what idiots they are.

MAD
Dec. 15, 2003, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nyc_rider:
Why can't our society tolerate directness or honesty? I appreciate it. I don't have to read between the lines, guess or decipher. Personally, I find sugar-coated critiques useless. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess next time I go to the DMV and the new employee who doesn't quite understand the whole computer registration thing takes forever to process my paperwork, I can just be nasty and rude to her and maybe even complain to her supervisor. Or I can just scream at the cashier when a product I'm trying to purchase doesn't ring up at the sales price. Or the mail man delivers someone else's mail to my house. I mean, why should I sugarcoat things? Just let everyone know what idiots they are.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Flash44- Great post. Don't waste your breath, though. Just direct nyc_rider to HERE (http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6656094911&f=7076024331&m=134602711). Respect is already being debated.

Melzy
Dec. 15, 2003, 09:06 AM
peachy, check your PT with the answers. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SBT
Dec. 15, 2003, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deltawave:
sbt, WHY on earth should we be "able to take" cruelty??? We don't tolerate it towards animals or the downtrodden (ideally) yet you're saying if it comes from someone who is otherwise a genius or brilliant or famous it's fine?

I am not talking about cruelty. I am talking about brutally honest remarks, which may or may not be seen as "cruel" but certainly aren't in the same league as assault/battery. Certainly no one should put up with blatant, repetitive abuse. But if someone says ONE nasty thing to me, I will cope with it.

My Einstein analogy was to point out the paradox: would any of us tolerate cruelty to a horse? NO. Why should we tolerate abuse of our fellow humans? Honestly, sometimes I think some horse lovers could just care less about their fellow humans--as long as the horses are all right. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Right on! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

And I disagree that we need "more brutal honesty". IMO we need far LESS brutality in any form, no matter how sweetly it is couched or how "straight" the shooter is.

Whoa there. "Brutality" and "brutal honesty" are two VERY different things! Sometimes the truth hurts. Either we learn to deal with it, or we spend our lives hiding from it.

So would you define a woman who is sexually harrassed at the workplace, a senior citizen who is bullied by his nurses, a passive individual who is taken advantage of by his co-workers as a "taker"?

HELL NO, and I don't know where you got this from! Once again, IT IS NOT THE SAME THING.

You used the term almost as a compliment--HOW is this a good thing? "Taking one's lumps" is one thing, but "taking" abuse and harrassment because one is intimidated by someone else's status is quite another, IMO.

"Taking one's lumps" is EXACTLY what I'm talking about here. I am not advocating tolerance of abuse. But I still don't see how one not-so-nice comment qualifies as abuse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

deltawave
Dec. 15, 2003, 01:02 PM
SBT, OK...I was trying to clarify your point and you've made it clear. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I still maintain GM could get his points across without the mean-spirited remarks to AUDITORS who are minding their own business. Didn't anyone teach him MANNERS? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif Why can't this brilliant man just stick to horsemanship and skip the theatrics? It's pathetic.

And my comment on people who couldn't care less about humans was meant tongue-in-cheek...I hope your "right on" was, too. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I really like humans, and that pretty much is my beef with George--he really doesn't seem to.

---------------------------------------------
"If you think your hairstyle is more important than your brain, you're probably right." Wear a helmet!
Pictures! (http://www.deltawave.homestead.com/photos2.html)
Helmet Nazi, Bah Humbug, Mares Rule, Breed Your Own and Michigan cliques!

js
Dec. 15, 2003, 02:11 PM
There is constructive criticism and there is destructive criticism. I think the latter was used in this situation.

SBT
Dec. 15, 2003, 02:57 PM
deltawave, I really wasn't trying to flame you! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif In fact, I agree that GM's remark to Melzy was inappropriate. Still, I think it falls under the "taking one's lumps" category, especially because none of my experiences with GM lead me to believe he is truly a mean-spirited person.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deltawave:
SBT, OK...I was trying to clarify your point and you've made it clear. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I still maintain GM could get his points across without the mean-spirited remarks to AUDITORS who are minding their own business. Didn't anyone teach him MANNERS? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif Why can't this brilliant man just stick to horsemanship and skip the theatrics? It's pathetic.

I agree, but he is who/what he is, and anyone who decides to be around him does so with the knowledge that he might be unnecessarily mean. However, Melzy probably didn't expect him to take cheap shots at auditors. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif Still, if a person thinks they will be bothered by something GM says, then they should use a different trainer.

And my comment on people who couldn't care less about humans was meant tongue-in-cheek...I hope your "right on" was, too.

Yes, of course it was (I thought I emoticon-ed sufficiently, but I guess not. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) Although I really do prefer the company of animals to that of most humans! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

I really like humans, and that pretty much is my beef with George--he really doesn't seem to.

I think you're probably right, at least to a certain degree. I do think GM has a tendency to dislike some people, but certainly not all. He truly can be a kind person when suitably inspired. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I can think of too many examples to list here. He really is not an ogre, he just plays one sometimes. I do agree that he could be a bit kinder about it, though.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

[This message was edited by sbt78lw on Dec. 15, 2003 at 06:05 PM.]

-Bailey-
Dec. 15, 2003, 02:57 PM
i wish!

Love you all-

"Just because something is a little banged up doesen't mean you throw it away" -Tom Smith

http://www.picturetrail.com .... go to end of links on left and enter elijah351 for pics!

lauriep
Dec. 16, 2003, 06:17 AM
George IS impatient and short with people who he perceives are not paying attention, reacting quickly enough or just plain are in another world. But it is because he knows that his time, and YOUR time, are valuable and wants everyone he teaches to be the best they can be, and get as much out of his training as possible. He does not suffer fools...

OTOH, once he knows you, and respects you, he is the most loyal friend you can ask for. How many other BNT of his stature do you know that would attend a GROOM'S reunion, at the behest of someone he hadn't seen in 20+ years? Not many, but he did (and so did Joe Fargis).

And I understand sbt's points.

Laurie

sesroh
Dec. 16, 2003, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> OTOH, once he knows you, and respects you, he is the most loyal friend you can ask for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My mother once gave me some valuable advice for dating (which I know she didn't think up but she always reminded me of it). When you meet someone, don't judge him solely by how he treats you and how he treats those he knows. Look at how he treats the people he doesn't know, the waitress, the grocery store clerk, the pizza delivery man. How he treats these type of people will be a more valid indicator of his true character. And she was right.

Bumpkin
Dec. 16, 2003, 07:29 AM
http://www.ultimatedressage.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=4177641&highlight=#4177641

Very interesting Dressage take on a GM Clinic.

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

canyonoak
Dec. 16, 2003, 08:39 AM
To Melzy: sorry for misquoting you.

To everyone who wants to complain about GM:

why? why are you bothering? every complaint on this thread can be found in other threads on this BB.
Let alone other BBs.

If you do not like his style, if the negatives outweigh the positives--don't clinic with him.

There is little doubt in my mind that he is brilliant and worth his money.

There is even less doubt in my mind that he likes to 'poke' at people and see what kind of reaction he will get.

Is this mature/childish? Nasty/OK?

Not debating that, coz I dont care enough.

I care about quality instruction. Which we have little enough of in any equestrian discipline or sport.

So he's not Victor Hugo-Vidal in his teaching methodology.

SO be it.

They are both great stars, for me, and great teachers.

cheers to all,and happy joyous holidays,

canyonoak
Dec. 16, 2003, 08:58 AM
&lt;&lt;Has Anyone Else Read This Thread?

http://www.ultimatedressage.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=4177641&highlight=#4177641

Very interesting Dressage take on a GM Clinic.&gt;&gt;


I couldn't resist, DQ that I am..I posted a reply on that thread too!

&lt;G&gt;

levremont
Dec. 16, 2003, 09:11 AM
Having ridden in a couple of GM clinics I can say this:
I am hardly skinny, I know how he feels about weight, I also know that I am perfectly able to "handle" anything he would dish out at me...he never did. HE actually made quite a few comments about liking me, remembered me the next year (and told one of my students he would do fine, since he rode with me). I think that the only thing he can not stand are riders who do not try, who are too emotional when riding, or who do not take his comments with a grain of salt, be you Fat or Skinny.I have seen him be "mean" to a very skinny young girl only because she would not listen or try to learn from the other riders. In one group there was a rather large older woman, he was very nice to her too, that lady could ride. I find it totally inapropriate for anyone to bash a rider like Mark for his weight, can you ride half as well as him, and as lightly I might add...watch him next time you are riding in the GP, he is extremely light on his horse.

visit us at www.levremont.com (http://www.levremont.com)

Black Market Radio
Dec. 16, 2003, 09:48 AM
I wonder, if someone who was being 'picked on' by him would speak up and say "Hey, I came here to learn, not get trashed by you" if he would admire that and start to teach that person. It would be taking initiative and showing that you really ARE serious about riding. The other part of this is, though, that you better try your arse off and back up your mouth!!!

I noticed on the other thread on UDBB that a few people had said things to the tune of "Well, I would like to see HIM ride, is he really all THAT great of a rider?" Well, To this I would have to answer that yes, he really IS that good of a rider. And he does not ask anyone to do anything he wouldn't do himself. If he tells you to take THAT horse and jump THAT line with him, I garauntee that he would do that same line with that same horse.

And I would post that over there except I don't have a "real" e-mail addy so I can't play! Oh well.

Devilpups (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87)
We are now the Knights Who Say 'Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'

Melzy
Dec. 16, 2003, 09:58 AM
sesroh, your mother is very wise. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

canyonoak, no problem and thanks.

sallylou, a comment about a rider's weight is one thing; a comment about an auditor's weight is quite another! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Do you understand the difference? George's comment to me, an auditor, was, "You're pathetic!" He did not say this to any rider http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. Hence the controversy concerning his manners.

Btw, George himself, made mention of one of the 3 brothers that he use to teach. Two of them being Olympians yet the most talented one was not because of his weight problem. We all knew he was talking about poor Mark. (Personally, I've always liked Mark. He posed for a photo, back in the stabling area at WIHS after he won the Puissance class jumping 6'10".) So go ahead and flame the true basher, George!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Peace everyone. Thank you for your time. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Release First
Dec. 16, 2003, 11:24 AM
Many moons ago when George first came to the West Coast I audited a clinic that he gave. I thought that he was the best teacher that I had ever observed. Quite impressive and I was learning a lot. He then destroyed a student who was smiling because he wanted her to be serious and not smiling. Now, this was a young girl who was scared to death of the situation and had the habit of smiling when she was nervous. What he did to her did not help her be "the best she could be" or "to get the most out of his training." In fact, it had the opposite effect.

The art of teaching is multifaceted. One part of it is owning and effectively dispensing the information. Wow, can George ever do this. The other is being aware of what is going on with the learner? It is NEVER going to open a learner to receive more, new information by attacking them personally. People, naturally, will try to protect themselves.

Let me try to relate this to riding. If a rider is having a smooth and productive lesson, they are going to be at their most willing point to try something new or something that is perceived to be harder. If the horse is dumping them at all of the oxers, it will be tough sell to try to get them to work on an automatic release while they try to protect themselves. It doesn't matter whether their response is to ride harder or weaker in order to protect themselves, it still will be much harder for them to focus on an automatic release. Whether a rider is intimidated by the instructor or the horse, the result will be the same.

If you think of a rider's self confidence as a pile of poker chips, it might help you understand what goes on in a lesson (or life). Everyone has a different amount of chips in their pile. If you knock out one chip (by a personal attack, etc.) from a person with one hundred chips, they will probably proceed onward. They may even be more determined because they are used to getting chips and have a strong desire to build their pile of chips. If you knock out one chip from a person with five chips, they will definitely start protecting their pile because they are in fear of losing all of their chips. These people have not been successful in building their chip pile. People usually protect their piles by becoming defensive and closed.

What bothers me the most are the young trainers that go to his clinics and try to emulate his style. They need to be able to pick and choose from what they observe at the clinics. All too often they only pick the obvious and miss all the subtlety which is where the real art of teaching lies. Attacking people personally and putting them down will not make you a more effective trainer and I watch this go on all to often in the schooling arena.

So, I continue to audit George's clinics. I send students to the clinics with them having full knowledge of what they might encounter. I continue to learn from George how to be a better instructor both from a positive and negative point of view.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
George IS impatient and short with people who he perceives are not paying attention, reacting quickly enough or just plain are in another world. But it is because he knows that his time, and YOUR time, are valuable and wants everyone he teaches to be the best they can be, and get as much out of his training as possible. He does not suffer fools...

OTOH, once he knows you, and respects you, he is the most loyal friend you can ask for. How many other BNT of his stature do you know that would attend a GROOM'S reunion, at the behest of someone he hadn't seen in 20+ years? Not many, but he did (and so did Joe Fargis).

And I understand sbt's points.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you are on your horse you can see forever. - Victor Hugo Vidal
Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are. - King Soloman (970-928B.C.)

Melzy
Dec. 16, 2003, 04:12 PM
That's a great comparison, using the chips, ReleaseFirst. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Did you go to Montessori school? They use alot of 3-D visual aids in their teaching methods. It works for me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Best wishes.

Melzy
Dec. 16, 2003, 04:24 PM
ReleaseFirst, another thing came to mind while reading your thoughtful post.

George said, "I like nothing," as he wiped his face blank like an eraser. His meaning was to not have expression on your face; either positive or negative. "I want nothing!"

I really appreciated what you said about learning how to be a better instructor, from both a positive and negative point of view. That's what I took away from his clinic. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

findeight
Dec. 16, 2003, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canyonoak:
....So he's not Victor Hugo-Vidal in his teaching methodology.....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, I know sombody who used to take from VHV as a Junior...she turned in a God Awful trip and tried to sneak back to the barn....as she slid off the horse he booted her right on the backside.

She posts here from time to time, perhaps she will elaborate.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.

MHM
Dec. 16, 2003, 04:44 PM
You know, it would be so nice to find the perfect trainer- kind, tactful, knowledgeable, honest, great rider, great teacher, great horseman, etc....

It would also be nice to find the perfect horse- beautiful, correct, great mover, great jumper, big stride, quiet, easy to ride, young, sound, with absolutely clean x-rays.

Unfortunately, perfect is a little hard to find. In the meantime, everyone needs to decide what compromises they're willing to live with in their own situation. Whether it's a great horse that won't fly by the vet, or a great trainer whose personality is not everyone's cup of tea, it all comes down to what suits each individual. That's all. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MistyBlue
Dec. 16, 2003, 05:06 PM
Well said MHM. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Findeight...I've had that boot in my backside discipline before, LOL! Although not as established a boot as VHV's. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Equine Crash Test Dummy
Member of: Non-GPA Clique
80's Clique
Connecticut Clique
Helmet Nazi Clique

Bumpkin
Dec. 16, 2003, 05:59 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW New barn is so far so good.
New trainer rode with GM at Rich Fellers Clinic then Mike Hennigan last weekend.
Getting ready for Indio.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

Melzy
Dec. 18, 2003, 07:43 AM
Bumpkin, who is your new trainer? He/she probably knows who I am since I was jump crew for 3 days. Just curious. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best wishes.

Bumpkin
Dec. 18, 2003, 08:10 AM
Audra Fleck, she was riding a little plain brown horse named Mel.
I think he is a 3/4 brother to Cirka Z, and can really jump.

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

RugBug
Dec. 18, 2003, 08:49 AM
I was at the GM clinic at Karen Healey's (sp?) on Sat. and I have to say, while Mr. Morris was gruff, demanding, expected full attention and quick response, he was never "mean-spirited" and was very quick to compliment the riders that tried...not who got it perfect, but who tried.

He was tough...even put tacks on the riders saddles so they would get up out of the tack. Tried it the nice way by demonstrating behind the motion riding (said it wasn't wrong, and was one tool, but it wasn't what he preferred) and then with the motion and expected the riders to try the same. When they didn't, he pulled out tacks. Actually one girl already had it and had to demonstrate behind the motion and the other was almost there...neither got tacks.

A few things stuck out to describe his character and approach to teaching. At one point he said, "I have to break you to make you." He also said, "That's my nature to be very particular." He commented on how riding in America use to be great but now good is acceptable and that the nation as a whole has come to accept adequate as a positive result.

He backed up all his teaching with both horses he rode. He didn't pick the "easy" horses and made both of them look very good.

There were no comments made about weight (I watched two eq sessions and many of the girls were twigs but one that he really liked and was very complimentary of was not twiggy) to either the riders or the auditors (Thank the maker!). He did, however, yell at an auditor that answered her cell phone. He also seemed perturbed that cells were ringing...as was I. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He also got upset when one of the riders got water from an observer. He asked what her medical condition was that she needed water and then made a comment about America's obsession with H2O....

It was a great experience, I learned a lot and I also learned that you need to watch GM teach to really get a feel for him. He's tough, but not vicious. He expects a lot and in turn usually gets a lot out of the riders. He is not for people who like to be coddled. I would go again in a heart beat and recommend auditting even for people that don't like him.

My Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/slorugbug

Bumpkin
Dec. 18, 2003, 08:51 AM
BTW
She knew who you were, when I mentioned this thread to her yesterday.

Loved the little thing you wrote about Sean. Hehe http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif He is a cutie.

"Remember: You're A Customer In A Service Industry."
"Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies,and SunnieFlax Cliques"

Flash44
Dec. 18, 2003, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:

He also got upset when one of the riders got water from an observer. He asked what her medical condition was that she needed water

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Refilling the ole tear ducts

RugBug
Dec. 18, 2003, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:

He also got upset when one of the riders got water from an observer. He asked what her medical condition was that she needed water

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Refilling the ole tear ducts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Now that's funny. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

She had no reason to refill tear ducts, though. He actually really like her riding. She didn't even merit a tack. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oh, and to comment on the UDBB thread...it's interesting that the OP said that the riders wanted to ride with him so he would know who they were for when he judges.

Does he really judge that often? From what he was saying Saturday, he doesn't like to judge, rarely does it and often times thinks judges are foolish and "sheep."

My Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/slorugbug

Melzy
Dec. 18, 2003, 06:26 PM
Thanks Bumpkin. I liked Audra and her talented horse. They will be in my video whenever it arrives. Please tell her that I said "hello."

RugBug, thanks for your report. I agree with you about his teaching style. He's old school and has no desire to change. He said, "I'm too old to change." http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

And Flash44, I loff what you said! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

Release First
Dec. 18, 2003, 10:04 PM
RugBug, just for your information, I saw him getting after people about their weight on Friday.

When you are on your horse you can see forever. - Victor Hugo Vidal
Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are. - King Soloman (970-928B.C.)

RugBug
Dec. 19, 2003, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ReleaseFirst:
RugBug, just for your information, I saw him getting after people about their weight on Friday.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't doubt it. But when it gets right down to it, and if I'm very honest with myself, he has a point. But I really wonder if the whole matter is just a difference in perspective.

The majority of people riding aren't top names/competitors. It is a hobby for most. And yet they have the opportunity to ride with people that make a living turning riders into our nation's best. Obviously there are going to be different paradigms that are going to clash. I was thinking about this when GM made his 'America accepts adequate' comment. It's true that many of us do accept good or adequate as good enough, usually because we aren't devoting our whole lives to riding. We try to be the best we can with what we have: the horse, the body, the finances, the time. If GM had this attitude, he probably wouldn't have been able to coach the best. He accepts no excuses and expects people to do their best...no matter what. Doing their best means being in top physical shape...just as any other athlete.

If I pay the money to take a clinic with GM, I want the full of his talent...I want the same teaching that he gives the top names. I don't want him to water down his teaching so that he doesn't hurt my feelings. I don't need him to make excuses for me or my riding, I will make enough for myself. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I want to know what a top trainer thinks is holding me back. From that point, I will decide what changes I think will fit with my priorities. I don't want him trying to guess what those priorities are. If he told me to stop riding and take up badminton, it doesn't mean I can't ride, just that I can't ride to a top standard. I don't need him to tell me that...and that comment might just make me mad enough to work harder to prove him wrong.

In other sports, do the average joe schmoe participants get to clinic with the top names? Does the regional competitive tennis player take a clinic with John McEnroe? Do they tailor clinics to the participants or do they expect that since you are taking a clinic with them that you want to reach a particular level?

My Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/slorugbug

MHM
Dec. 19, 2003, 09:41 AM
Good post- you made many excellent points! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SBT
Dec. 19, 2003, 10:52 AM
RugBug, you are the GREATEST. You and I have the exact same view of GM and his methods. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

FWIW, methinks most of the DQ's on UDBB have absolutely no personal experience to back up their opinions. And I think the original post was WILDLY exaggerated, with the intent to cause a ruckus. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Give me a break!

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

Melzy
Dec. 22, 2003, 05:07 PM
Bump.