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riderready
Jun. 30, 2011, 08:41 AM
:eek:Any tips for going from SI to renvers in the new second 3? My renvers feels more like a leg yield...

jcotton
Jun. 30, 2011, 08:50 AM
Renvers and Haunches-In need bend throughout the entire spine.
You may only get a few steps, of either one, to start with because it takes more strength and suppleness than you may think. I would also work them away from the wall to develope independence. Have a grounds person to help you to make sure it is renvers or haunches-in.

The goal in the test is smoothly transition from shoulder-in to renvers without tension, change of pace or frame otherthan spine bend.

meupatdoes
Jun. 30, 2011, 09:53 AM
Ride a 20m octagon.

First just turn and go straight, turn and go straight, etc.
Then turn and shoulder in, turn and shoulder in, etc.
Then turn and shoulder in, turn and haunches in, etc.
Always on the octagon, a few steps and turn, a few steps and turn.

First at the walk, then the trot, then the canter.

(This is not really a specific exercise to your issue because you are not changing the bend, but it makes such an improvement in lateral work in general I thought I would suggest it. It may take several rides and/or weeks to get this geometry accurate and smooth and lightly playful...ask me how I know. This exercise has been kicking my @$$ lately. But! It forces you to do it right if you want to ride the shape accurately and your lateral control of the horse will be much better.)


Also, SI to renvers is harder for most horses than shoulder-out to haunches in. It is the same bend just the wall is on a different side. So practice the shoulder-out way a few times and then change directions and try a go at SI-R.

Valentina_32926
Jun. 30, 2011, 10:03 AM
For me it's easy - when in SI I just take enough outside rein to have horse look straight down the rail and apply enough outside leg (at the girth) to keep shoulders in.

To me it's harder to go from renvers to SI :o (my trainer has me move from one to the other and back again several times within a lesson to help my horse stay flexible and focused).

easyrider
Jun. 30, 2011, 10:32 AM
If you're talking about schooling renvers and it's feeling more like a leg yield, your horse may not be supple enough, you may be blocking him, or your leg aids are incorrect (or any combo of the above).

While schooling, remember that one or two good steps of any movement are better than four mediocre ones. But it takes time to develop suppleness, so make sure you're working on increased bend, reach and throughness as you school the suppling lateral movements (which in my opinion excludes leg yielding).

Make sure you're allowing your horse sufficient outside rein in order to let his shoulder lift and reach down the track. Check the position of your legs and make sure your inside leg is driving at the girth and your outside leg is holding the haunches. (Of course, your inside and outside aids are defined by the bend of your horse.)

Check that you're allowing the movement once it begins. A lot of riders block the movement without realizing it, by holding on to the aids that request it far longer than they need to, getting tighter and tighter and asking for more and more (with the conflicting aids making the horse get tighter and tighter and able to give less and less). Keep your legs long and free from the hip.

If you're having problems moving from SI to renvers, remember that the transition involves straightening your horse in between and you need to allow time for this. Don't rush it. Also, make sure your horse's ears are level. If they're not, refine your contact.

merrygoround
Jun. 30, 2011, 11:04 AM
Stop thinking about it as "RENVERS", and head up the quarter line, riding H/I on on the L rein, when you get to the B/E line switch to H/I on the right rein. In other words, keep your shoulders straight ahead, Switch your leg position to H/I on the left rein. Do that until you are comfortable with it, and your horse is switching his haunches easily, and you are doing it fluidly.

Then back to quarter line in S/I, when you are ready to change, your shoulders straighten and face forward, your outside leg engages to bend the horse, (becoming the new inside leg), allowing the inside leg to push the quarters out. (This makes the old inside leg, the outside leg). Don't think of the parts in parenthesis, just straighten your shoulders and switch your legs to change the bend.

Piece of cake :lol: :lol:

GallantGesture
Jun. 30, 2011, 11:27 AM
Can I add to the original question? What are some exercises to improve the bend in renvers?

My horse does his H/I left like a leg yield (doesn't maintain bend) but I can do H/I or H/O with correct right bend. He yields his haunches obediently to the left, we just always lose the bend in the process. I've been working at it in the walk and can get a few steps with left bend now, but the trot is really really hard. Any good exercises to improve the left bend? He can bend left fine to do a S/I, so I'm not sure if it's just a suppleness thing, or a particular muscle weakness that he avoids doing a H/I with left bend.

thedolce
Jun. 30, 2011, 11:49 AM
I'm starting 2nd level this year too and I found that it was actually easlier to master the renvers first then once you start nailing it, then try SI to renvers. Every horse is different, my horse and I weren't getting it until I started using an indirect rein to make the change from SI to renvers.

I also found it helpful to do Travers and renvers at the walk to master that tricky equitation of getting the hip down in the direction of bend.

My couch also makes me turn down centreline and half pass step by step to the wall and then straight up the wall in renvers to get the correct feel.

F

merrygoround
Jun. 30, 2011, 12:44 PM
I also found it helpful to do Travers and renvers at the walk to master that tricky equitation of getting the hip down in the direction of bend.

My couch also makes me turn down centreline and half pass step by step to the wall and then straight up the wall in renvers to get the correct feel.

F

Darn, my couch just sits there!! ;)

Seriously though, all these exercises are best mastered at the walk ,from LY, To S/I, to H/I and renvers.

GreyStreet
Jun. 30, 2011, 01:13 PM
We are also working on learning this movement and continue to work on our suppleness - I agree, practice from the walk until you can coordinate your aids smoothly. I've also found adding this into our warm up, along with leg yields and travers, can really help with our trot work. Since I am riding an older horse, working on the supplness is constant for us.

How is everyone finding this movement rides in the test?

thedolce
Jun. 30, 2011, 03:27 PM
Darn, my couch just sits there!! ;)

Seriously though, all these exercises are best mastered at the walk ,from LY, To S/I, to H/I and renvers.

opps "coach" very, very tired today. SI to renvers haunted me for 6 months, now it's going to be our best move. Keep trying every tool mentioned here. I would also try it on a hack, sometimes just getting out of the ring situation helps.

ideayoda
Jun. 30, 2011, 04:43 PM
Both shoulder in and renvers are begun by moving the SHOULDERS, not the quarters. So if you are in s.i., then merely change flexion keeping the shoulders on the inside track.

Do the exercise in walk, and merely change the positioning at a given point.

And one could not do si to renvers in canter as has been suggested.

NorCalDressage
Jun. 30, 2011, 09:08 PM
Can I add to the original question? What are some exercises to improve the bend in renvers?

My horse does his H/I left like a leg yield (doesn't maintain bend) but I can do H/I or H/O with correct right bend. He yields his haunches obediently to the left, we just always lose the bend in the process. I've been working at it in the walk and can get a few steps with left bend now, but the trot is really really hard. Any good exercises to improve the left bend? He can bend left fine to do a S/I, so I'm not sure if it's just a suppleness thing, or a particular muscle weakness that he avoids doing a H/I with left bend.

Can try doing a 10m circle to re-establish the proper bend and then continue with the HI

merrygoround
Jun. 30, 2011, 09:12 PM
Doing a proper 10m circle is always a reminder to the rider as to where the aids need to be applied. An earlier or very remedial exercise is to proceed up the long side returning to the 10 m circle every letter or every other letter.

meupatdoes
Jun. 30, 2011, 10:19 PM
And one could not do si to renvers in canter as has been suggested.

Since a "Command-F" search reveals that my post is the only other post on this thread in which the word "canter" appears, I assume you are talking about mine, but at no point did I suggest going from SI to renvers in canter.

I offered that exercise, in which the bend does not change, as a preparatory excercise to help confirm haunches-in-NOT-legyield, because of the control it develops over the bend in the lateral work.

If you were talking about a post which is now deleted, my apologies.

ideayoda
Jul. 1, 2011, 12:19 AM
If the horse is too straight in HI (or any lateral movement) try just lifting the inside rein a smidge a couple of times (or turning the thumb out) to increase the bend rather than more leg or hand or stronger aids (keep outside upper arm/elbow steady).

Swing
Jul. 1, 2011, 10:02 AM
I find this exercise relaly easy...its the travers that we cant get enough bend in!
Will try the inside hand suggestion from ideayoda:)

GallantGesture
Jul. 1, 2011, 01:01 PM
Thanks Ideayoda, I will try that today! I have been doing the small circles exercise and it does set us up nicely, but still within a step or two the left bend is completely gone. Can't wait to see if this helps!