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toesforward
Jun. 28, 2011, 05:50 PM
I have been offered the opportunity to co-own a talented flashy young horse that could make it to young riders. This would be instead of part-boarding less talented horses which I've been doing.

If I had the money I would've done it by now. However I would need a loan to purchase half, and I'd have to work insane hours on top of school to afford it's payments. Down the road if we could get to young riders I may consider selling and could hopefully get back some money.

It isn't about the money for me. I know I can get the time and make the payments, but it will be really tight. I like that I would work my way to young riders, not buy into it.

Recommend sticking with part-boarding or co own a super horse? Why? Which will make me a better rider? Thanks

Highflyer
Jun. 28, 2011, 05:57 PM
Crazy to borrow money to buy any horse! Horses get hurt way too easily! And I would be wary of co-owning anything without a very professional, airtight written agreement that spells out pretty much every contingency.

TheHorseProblem
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:02 PM
I have been offered the opportunity to co-own a talented flashy young horse that could make it to young riders. This would be instead of part-boarding less talented horses which I've been doing.

If I had the money I would've done it by now. However I would need a loan to purchase half, and I'd have to work insane hours on top of school to afford it's payments. Down the road if we could get to young riders I may consider selling and could hopefully get back some money.

It isn't about the money for me. I know I can get the time and make the payments, but it will be really tight. I like that I would work my way to young riders, not buy into it.

Recommend sticking with part-boarding or co own a super horse? Why? Which will make me a better rider? Thanks

Crazy.

Finish school, get a good job, and then you can afford flash without taking on debt.

Appsolute
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:03 PM
Horses are not an investment. Very rarely do they "pay off".

Ask yourself if you would still do it, if the horse ended up lame and or worthless tomorrow. If you would, then go for it, but never expect to make your borrowed money back.

Also, if you are going to have to work crazy hours to afford the horse, when will you have time to ride and train it? Where will the money come from to make it to the shows?

Find out how much loss of use insurance would be, and consider that into the equation.

Emy
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:12 PM
Horses are incredibly fragile creatures. As the previous poster stated they are a horrid investment, if you still choose to proceed pay the hundreds of dollars to have a intense pre-purchase done. If you plan to re-sell it this is a must.

didgery
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:17 PM
Crazy. Ride horses you can afford to ride—you'll learn just as much, and your stress level will be WAY lower.

toesforward
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:27 PM
Thanks for the reply's all.

I get what everyone is saying, especially about the injuries and loans. I think I worded it wrong. It is definitely not an investment of money. I expect to loose money. A lot. It is an investment of riding experience and the loan is not 'big.' it is relatively small and would be paid back within the year.

Time wise I work very similar hours for part-boarding a horse, and still ride at least 5 days a week. I don't want to spend my life in what if it gets hurt. Every horse is like that, even the ones you can afford. Thank you for the ideas though. Definitely will consider them carefully.

AKB
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:44 PM
Unfortunately, with horses, the issue is not "if" they get hurt. It is "when" they get hurt and how badly they get hurt. As long as you have enough money saved to pay $10,000 for colic surgery or EPM medication or 6 months of stall rest with $250 corrective shoeing every month for rehabbing a suspensory injury, you should consider the new horse. If you don't have that kind of reserves, I wouldn't think of buying the horse. Health insurance for horses often finds a way to avoid paying for catastrophic illnesses and injuries because of some pre-existing condition that you didn't even know about. Having to put a horse down or watch them suffer because you can't afford care is not your goal.

Could you instead finish college a year early and then take a gap year to train a young horse to the YR level? It is better to own the horse yourself rather than being at the whim of a partner whose goals, interests, and financial contributions may not be what you are looking for.

Good luck.

Libera
Jun. 28, 2011, 06:53 PM
Crazy....

A nice horse doesnt have to be expensive, sometimes you get lucky or creative, and you can find a good horse for little money. Or if you are a good rider, for free....
Example, I couldn't afford a nice, quality horse either, so I bred my own. Free leased an injured PSG mare and traded board for training young horses. My horse has cost me $1500 all together, and yes, some of my time training other people's horses, but I needed/wanted something to ride in the meantime anyways ;)

Getting to YR isn't cheap either.... Shows are expensive, so are trailers, trucks, boarding and lessons.

Where are you located?

NorCalDressage
Jun. 28, 2011, 07:32 PM
I think you'd be better off taking the money you would have spent on the loan payments and using it for training/lessons on the less talented horses you currently have. Better chance of developing yourself as a truly better rider this way.

Plus, when co-owning anything, lots of issues (and stress) can come from it.

GingerJumper
Jun. 28, 2011, 07:43 PM
Baaaaaaaad, bad idea.

I say this having watched plenty of super expensive, super talented horses get hurt and never come back the same way, or be sooooo close to the riders sought-after goal/achievement, and then get hurt. Part-owning only makes that situation more complicated.

Hear me out; I'm not saying we should live in a state of terror that our critters might get injured, I'm just saying that part ownership would make that scenario a heck of a lot more complicated.

Not to mention, getting to YRs is wicked expensive and time consuming. The only people I know who've made it or even got close graduated high school then went straight to a working student position and either did college online, or put it on the back burner. Jobs went on the back burner as well when they went to be a working student, because they'd either teach or get paid for extra stuff they did for boarders etc.

Are you actively training with someone? If so, set up a time when you two can meet and discuss your goals and life right now, along with this potential new horse. Write them out on a big white board or a sheet of paper as well, so you can see them. I'm about to have to do this *again*, because my life tends to change rapidly and drastically.

Whatever route you choose, best of luck to you and keep up posted :)

2tempe
Jun. 28, 2011, 07:44 PM
Plus, when co-owning anything, lots of issues (and stress) can come from it.[/QUOTE]

THIS! And it's perhaps the most important of the points.

And as others said: I'm not a believer in borrowing money to buy a horse - unless you're waiting for some kind of investment security (like a CD) to mature in a couple months to pay it off!

sketcher
Jun. 28, 2011, 08:02 PM
You're first mistake was to use the words "horses" and "investment" in the same sentence. But now that I've been able to stop laughing, wipe the tears from my cheeks and catch my breath...

I'm only teasing. I 'think' what you are saying is that you would be redirecting money already spent on part board? Is that true? If you can honestly say the expense is really no different than the part board and if it is truly a small loan (1k or under) and you also have the means and fortitude to pay an equine attorney to write up a solid contract with the co owner (NO EXCEPTION ON THIS PART) and you can split the cost of major medical/mortality insurance then what the hell. Go for it. You only live once.

If all of the above aren't true-then probably not a good idea - wait until you are done with school and then see if you are interested in an arrangement like this. When you can afford it.

The scenario I am afraid you are walking into - being as cynical as I am-is that a breeder whom is too cheap to promote their own horse which is currently untrained and unsellable in the current market has convinced you to fork over borrowed money in return for 1/2ownership, your half of the board will be paid to the breeder who will keep the horse on their property and therefore have you paying all real expenses and who will then get you to train the horse for free to the best of your ability - which may or may not be good enough. I envision that this breeder will either be ready to sell before or after you but not in partnership with you or in a way that is to the benefit of both of you and in the end the breeder will have made out with slave labor, a trained or partially trained horse and a profit while you will have spent time, money,blood, sweat and tears. Also, if this horse gets to the point of competing,half owner probably will not have the requisite half funds to campaign said horse leaving you holding the bag if you want to follow your dream.

Tell the truth - what is the true scenario which offers you such a deal for half ownership? Who is in a bad financial position and trying to spread their liability? How capable are they of bringing this horse along? How can you get stuck holding the bag?What happens if you disagree on a course of action? What if your partner (or you) loses the ability to pay the bills for 6 months?

People don't offer half ownership unless they need someone with deep pockets.

toesforward
Jun. 28, 2011, 08:38 PM
Thank you guys for the sensible and very true answers. I guess it sounds fishy, and I totally agree that horses get injured quickly, but at this point I see it as a way for me to achieve a goal.

Background: I put a lot of work in part-boarded horse, brought it back after he had a bunch of time off, learned on him as well, owner decides to move him away, and likely sell him down the road. I admit I learned a lot with him, but I feel like I'm losing a lot of what I put in him. Worried that future part-boards would result in horse moving on, and me being horseless. I will learn a lot still

This young horse is 5, so not that young. It has been cliniced with FEI judges and shown at high status shows with 62% and higher results. It is not a typical situation, my trainer (who I trust very much) is selling me her half as she was co-owner b/c she is training him, and rather than the owner paying her, she co-owns him. the other owner was originally planning on selling all. This owner is very busy and feels to old and has not enough time to work with a young horse. We would split things very equally. I trust these people and have no fear of being taken advantage of.

Thanks again guys.

angel
Jun. 28, 2011, 08:54 PM
Anything that eats, can get sick, can get hurt, can die....is never an investment.

buck22
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:00 PM
I'm only teasing. I 'think' what you are saying is that you would be redirecting money already spent on part board? Is that true? If you can honestly say the expense is really no different than the part board and if it is truly a small loan (1k or under) and you also have the means and fortitude to pay an equine attorney to write up a solid contract with the co owner (NO EXCEPTION ON THIS PART) and you can split the cost of major medical/mortality insurance then what the hell. Go for it. You only live once.

this^^



Tell the truth - what is the true scenario which offers you such a deal for half ownership? Who is in a bad financial position and trying to spread their liability? How capable are they of bringing this horse along? How can you get stuck holding the bag?What happens if you disagree on a course of action? What if your partner (or you) loses the ability to pay the bills for 6 months?

People don't offer half ownership unless they need someone with deep pockets.
THIS^

though I have to admit I have had part ownerships and 'investment' horses with people not for my deep pockets (because they ain't :lol:) but because I enjoy putting in hard time on athletic training rejects few others are willing to do. And I have gotten really lucky I haven't gotten screwed in the process of co-owernship, that (touch wood) the horses all stayed sound, and nobody changed their mind or goals or flaked out or had a personal crisis along the way.

I will never co own or trust anyone with a long term highly volatile project like a horse ever again, and I had nothing but good experiences. There is way too much that can go wrong far too easily.

As was said, if the horse goes critically lame - super expensive forget about anything this year lame - the day after you handed over the money and shook hands, what would you do?

I won't poo poo your plan, I went for it myself, but I was naive and had complete trust in my trainer and friends... which is stupid now that I look back :lol:. Think long and hard about everything that can go wrong because there is a really good chance it will. Just be ready for a bumpy ride if you decide to go through with it (and fingers x'd for a smooth success story!)


It is not a typical situation, my trainer (who I trust very much) is selling me her half as she was co-owner b/c she is training him, and rather than the owner paying her, she co-owns him. the other owner was originally planning on selling all. This owner is very busy and feels to old and has not enough time to work with a young horse. We would split things very equally. I trust these people and have no fear of being taken advantage of.
eta: this sounds like you'd be half way invested with a person that originally wanted to walk away completely. What will the co-owner get out of this arrangement? What is her motivation to keep with the plan? What if just as you're reaching your goal the owner decides to call it quits? Without a co-owner that is as equally motivated as you, and you both have a common long term plan and short term escape plan, I would not consider co owning. Even the people you trust can change on you.

TheHorseProblem
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:02 PM
Let me get this straight: you would be buying out the trainer, who has sweat equity only in this horse. The co-owner is basically sponsoring the horse since she has no hope of ever riding him.

I fear the one being taken advantage of is the co-owner. I would not feel good about this unless there was a built in sell date for the horse.

And you say that you want your share-board money going towards a horse you can train and not lose at the mercy of someone else, but wouldn't that still be the case if co-owner decides to get out? And who would be paying the expenses? The woman who will never ride the horse she is subsidizing?

sid
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:09 PM
Ditto what all the other nay-sayers said..;).

People who actually make money with horse/horse sales turn them over very quickly to reduce the risk of illness and injury that may hamstring the "business plan".

Sadly, this is also why so many horses are slammed through training "just enough" before they get sour and are sold fast.

Not saying this happens all the time, but very frequently. The longer you own a horse the more likely you WILL deal with a health or injury issue.

If you can afford to lose your investment of time and money, then by all means do it. But be prepared to lose it. If you don't great, if you do you won't be surprised and will be prepared for that.

Best to you. :)

Forgot to add... your headline uses the word "crazy"...so I suspect on some level you think it may be for your situation.

Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:14 PM
Well, I say go for it! When you get just a so-so moving horse to the FEI levels it's still just a so-so horse. When you get a fabulously talented mover of a horse to the FEI levels you've got a HORSE!!!
Insure him to the hilt even for loss of use. If the loan is small, go for it.
Remember, you'll miss 100% of the shots you don't take but only some of the shots you do!
The world of dressage (& other equine sports) is made up of sponsorships/partnerships. Just be sure you have a clear, legal contract with the other owner & she/he is someone you trust!
Have a great time & keep me posted! Love to see the young riders come up through the ranks!

GraceLikeRain
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:21 PM
I won't tell you what you should or should not do but if you choose to proceed, please have an iron-clad contract written. The last thing you want is to take out loans and pour both your money and energy into a horse only to have the other co-owner sell her half, chose to put another rider on board, decide to give the horse the season off/push harder than you want, etc. Unless you see eye to eye on every single level, you will eventually run into some major disagreements. I don't think it's impossible but I don't think it'll be easy either. Best of luck either way

easyrider
Jun. 28, 2011, 09:26 PM
I don't think any of us is involved with horses because it's the ultimate demonstration of our mental stability and good common sense. We do it for all sorts of other reasons, all of which could easily be termed "crazy," regardless of how much money we have. Mostly, we do it because we love it. Is that crazy? Well, that all depends on one's point of view.

Before you try to decide what to do, I think you need to explore the "what if's" as thoroughly as you possibly can. You'll be entering into a business partnership. Understand that the majority of partnerships dissolve, and dissolve bitterly. The best way to ensure that doesn't happen is to think about everything that can go wrong. Everything. Put all the assumptions and expectations on the table and insist that your potential partner do the same. Then talk with her about what could go wrong and how you'll both handle it. After you've gone through every scenario you can possibly think of, you'll have a better idea if this is something you want to consider doing.

Oh, and in answer to the question about your riding, this will probably be better for your riding than your other alternatives. Have you ridden the horse in question?

2tempe
Jun. 28, 2011, 10:53 PM
OK, time raise a question: Call me crazy, but if this horse has so much potential and has been shown - presumably at training level, maybe first level since it's only 5 - why aren't its scores in the 70's? "62 and higher" as op stated, are not scores that would get me excited re FEI capability, particularly w/ a professional rider... Me thinks that perhaps trainer is thinking more about helping out the current owner get out from under.

wehrlegirl
Jun. 28, 2011, 11:17 PM
Keep looking at other alternatives before making up your mind. If you are a good rider there may be a working student gig you can hook up with that may put you in line for a much better situation. I totally understand your frustration.. you NEED a very good horse to compete at the level you are talking about.. it may be tempting to jump on the first decent chance you get, but it is worth it to see what other opportunities are out there.

mbm
Jun. 28, 2011, 11:50 PM
i havent read any of the replies and didnt get past the statement that you would have to borrow money and work insane hours to purchase *half*.

there is nothing a less expensive horse couldn't teach you. and half owing something that you took a loan on is a very bad idea.

my suggestion is to look for a horse you can afford. believe me it is possible to train a horse up the level that didn't cost a fortune!

CHT
Jun. 29, 2011, 12:14 AM
I am going to say "it depends". is the co-owner finacially stable enough that she will be happy paying half the bills for the long term?

Is there a risk the co-owner will want to share the ride in the future after you get the horse going better...and undo training?

What happens when you graduate and have to move across the country to get a job?

What bills will be shared? For example, if you need 4 shoes and hock injections to show, will the cost be split, or will they be yours alone? What about show fees? Trailering? Clinics? Lessons/training?

How will differences in training methods be handled? What if the co-owner wants to take the horse home for a while?

If you can somehow get the controlling interest, then I agree that you should go for it.

alto
Jun. 29, 2011, 03:16 AM
the loan is not 'big.' it is relatively small and would be paid back within the year.


For me this removes it from the realm of crazy to mayyyybbbeeee :)

Sit down with trainer & discuss details - usually with horse ownership, the initial purchase price is less an issue than the monthly upkeep, so make sure you're able to manage everything.
Make sure you're happy with the type/level of insurance.
Ask a million questions (& get a written contract) so you know exactly where your expectations differ from your trainer's expectations.

kjaanbutt
Jun. 29, 2011, 04:27 AM
I am not a native speaker so I need your help. i will feel thankful for your answers.

I wonder which tense is right.

in the sentence, Dose the speaker mean that the person has already invested the money or the person has a plan to invest money soon?

please answer to my question. bye

Emy
Jun. 29, 2011, 08:29 AM
OK, time raise a question: Call me crazy, but if this horse has so much potential and has been shown - presumably at training level, maybe first level since it's only 5 - why aren't its scores in the 70's? "62 and higher" as op stated, are not scores that would get me excited re FEI capability, particularly w/ a professional rider... Me thinks that perhaps trainer is thinking more about helping out the current owner get out from under.

Um, this. 62's are not good enough scores to call something a FEI prospect, I imagine your coach knows this. A mark of 6 means satisfactory! I have shown a young horse who score 9’s for Gaits and I doubt he will make it to FEI. We have a lovely 4 year old mare in training posting over 75% at National shows that could or could not make it to Advanced Level. Time will tell. I would suggest you go to the next large show around you and watch some of the FEI young horse classes and the Open division of Training/First and see the types of horses that break that mid 70 mark. I imagine it will open your eyes. Also watch the Advanced classes. See how the horses respond to their riders, their ability to compress and lengthen. Then go home ride this horse, have it videoed and seriously evaluate how it moves, carries itself, accepts the half-halt, comes under and through, the way it connects to the bridle, all 3 gaits, its submission, willingness to work, conformation flaws, soundness etc! Again, I stress you must perform a full pre-purchase, one mark on an x-ray or ultrasound and that horses worth plummets for re-sale value. I would look into leasing a confirmed Advanced horse, you will be suprised at how many are available. 2 of my girlfriends went to NAJYRC's on leased horses. Sadly there is no way to avoid "buying" your way into the YR division, it is an expensive sport. A single CDI will cost around $1000, the championships much more. Best of luck with your decision

tidy rabbit
Jun. 29, 2011, 08:59 AM
The way I look at investments, horses or otherwise, is if I can't afford to lose the money I wont do it.

My advice is pass this one up and wait until you're in a better situation financially.

There are places and times to take calculated risks, reading your first post, it doesn't sound like this is the best place and time.

That said, sometimes things are just so right that you have to take a leap and roll the dice. Only you can decide if this is that right opportunity.
:) Good luck!!

AllWeatherGal
Jun. 29, 2011, 09:34 AM
I am with buck22 (and others).

The heartbreak of feeling like I misplaced trust is not one I'd wish on anyone at any time.

Alter Already!
Jun. 29, 2011, 09:57 AM
OK, time raise a question: Call me crazy, but if this horse has so much potential and has been shown - presumably at training level, maybe first level since it's only 5 - why aren't its scores in the 70's? "62 and higher" as op stated, are not scores that would get me excited re FEI capability, particularly w/ a professional rider... Me thinks that perhaps trainer is thinking more about helping out the current owner get out from under.

THis. That 62 jumped out at me as well--that's not a great score! What level are you talking about here? And you said "62 and higher"--well, how much higher, and at what type of shows? Have you ridden the horse yourself?

I know you don't really want to lease (part-board?) anymore because you feel like you put a lot into your last horse and then lost him. Okay, but what if you can find a lease on a horse that will give YOU a lot--an FEI-level horse that can give you experience at that level--without the HUGE risk of purchasing a horse of that caliber.

As a matter of fact--would your trainer consider leasing this horse to you instead of selling? If you can really get to YR on him, you will have increased his value for the owners, so they can make money upon selling him, and you, again, won;t have to take on such a big risk as a student. Does your trainer know you plan to take out a loan to buy her share? If so, I fear she may not have your best interests at heart.

2ndyrgal
Jun. 29, 2011, 11:53 AM
No, you aren't crazy, dreams are not crazy, we all have them, sometimes they come true, and it's wonderful..

Sometimes they come true and it is a very, very Bad Thing.

Just don't. Wait and get your own horse. Plenty of breeders out there would love a talented rider.

Velvet
Jun. 29, 2011, 12:32 PM
Crazy to borrow money to buy any horse! Horses get hurt way too easily! And I would be wary of co-owning anything without a very professional, airtight written agreement that spells out pretty much every contingency.

^This!!!^ Too much risk. Too little gain. Too many unknowns.

pryme_thyme
Jun. 29, 2011, 12:34 PM
I know what you are feeling.... fantastic horse within fingertip reach! Been there and paid the price (no pun intended).
Thing is if you taking out a loan to pay for a horse... not smart. It is hard to hear and when you really want something it seems impossible to say no despite what everyone is saying. Especially, co owning.... double ugh!
I highly recommend you work as hard as you say you would to keep the loan.... save the money you earn and search around and find a young 2-3 y/o with great breeding and is a great prospect..
You will appreciate it more, you won't have to deal with a co-owner which seems o.k right now....but wont in future, and you don't have to go through the legalities of making a contract.

Good luck in whichever decision you make.

mickeydoodle
Jun. 29, 2011, 12:39 PM
Crazy, this is a baaaaad idea.

1. 62% is very low for a 5yr old presumably ridden by your trainer- this is not a good score at all if you are looking at a talented horse. I would call 75%+ a good score in this situation.

2. a 5 year old is not a horse for a young rider to win on, the young rider tests are PSG level!!! The ones who win (most, not all ) are riding horses that are 12-17 that have had years of FEI professional training and cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (there are a few exceptions, but not many)

3. or do you mean the "young horse" classes? If you do than 62% is not even in the realm of acceptable. Cabana Boy, Selten HW, Grandioso, etc were scoring 70-80%

4. to campaign a young rider (or young horse for that matter) to get to the finals costs many thousands in travel, show fees, training, etc. The young rider championships last year were in San Juan Capistrano CA

SGray
Jun. 29, 2011, 01:02 PM
no loans for purchasing - just NOT

if you have spare cash burning a hole in your pocket, fine but do NOT TAKE OUT A LOAN

baylady7
Jun. 29, 2011, 01:25 PM
You need to evaluate based on your goal.

there are many ways to that goal, this is only one. Besides the purchase price, you need to factor in other costs such as training & maintenance.

Also, how does this one goal (riding in YR) factor into your long term plans? Think that through. You may burden yourself with a horse & not make YR (face it, not everyone makes it) and then be unable to meet your next goal.

It is hard when one is you to think strategically, but I suggest you chart out your goals for the next year, 5 years and 15 years in the work/professional, personal/family, health and education categories. Then, for each goal, identify the sub-tasks you need to accomplish to get to that goal. That should help you chart things out and re-evaluate your "want" desires now.

Sunshine66
Jun. 29, 2011, 02:22 PM
I agree with the earlier post that somebody is trying to pass a burden on to somebody else. Maybe there are people who have had great experiences entering into such an agreement with a friend and also with co-owning arrangements, etc. however, you should be prepared to lose the relationship with your trainer (if I understand correctly, this is the person that has the current half share of the horse that you would be paying) if things don't work out the way you want them to...from what I am reading, it seems [imo]that the OP is trying to convince herself that this is a good thing and really would like to make the investment. In the end it's your decision, but I think you are receiving some very good advice on this board... Good luck and keep us posted thru your journey!

GraceLikeRain
Jun. 29, 2011, 02:49 PM
Just a few months ago you asked about working student positions in Germany because you wanted to travel there within the next year or two. Did these plans change? If not, keep in mind that your "co-owner" might not be too happy with you leaving the country with a horse they also own. Do you have the means to buy out the other person if you want to go abroad but they don't want to pay the expenses?

cuatx55
Jun. 29, 2011, 02:58 PM
I don't think any of us is involved with horses because it's the ultimate demonstration of our mental stability and good common sense.

Quote of the day award LOL.

cuatx55
Jun. 29, 2011, 02:59 PM
to the OP-no, I would not do it. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. I agree that 65% isn't very good for a "talented" horse.

How well do you know the owner?

toesforward
Jun. 30, 2011, 05:57 PM
Hi all,

The advice is a resounding no, and I really think you raise excellent points and am considering them very true!

Sorry, 62% was at his first show, and was the lowest, his highest was still only a 67%, but since it was his first show, I wouldn't feel to bad. This is at training level. However, I do agree marks should perhaps be higher. I have watched many young riders in the area, and think they are amazing, (some of them do have dressage trainers as parents too). I am not concerned about winning, I'm looking to ride a horse that can teach me what it's like to work to that level, something I can do dressage on, winning is icing on the cake. Maybe you can move on to a better horse. I don't know, maybe I'm making things more confusing for everyone, I can't put my mind into words right now.

Say I didn't have to take out a loan? Would you consider it then. Also assuming the agreements are airtight and fair to all parties. Or is the injury risk to crazy?

Oh, and the owner would be riding, she started the horse herself, did a fine job as well! I have ridden this horse once, but will definitely try him a few times before any decision is made.

I have not put anything into the horse yet, I have just been told about it and was wondering what COTH recommends. Thanks for the words of wisdom! Will keep you updated.

dressurpferd01
Jun. 30, 2011, 06:31 PM
Hi all,

The advice is a resounding no, and I really think you raise excellent points and am considering them very true!

Sorry, 62% was at his first show, and was the lowest, his highest was still only a 67%, but since it was his first show, I wouldn't feel to bad. This is at training level. However, I do agree marks should perhaps be higher. I have watched many young riders in the area, and think they are amazing, (some of them do have dressage trainers as parents too). I am not concerned about winning, I'm looking to ride a horse that can teach me what it's like to work to that level, something I can do dressage on, winning is icing on the cake. Maybe you can move on to a better horse. I don't know, maybe I'm making things more confusing for everyone, I can't put my mind into words right now.

Say I didn't have to take out a loan? Would you consider it then. Also assuming the agreements are airtight and fair to all parties. Or is the injury risk to crazy?

Oh, and the owner would be riding, she started the horse herself, did a fine job as well! I have ridden this horse once, but will definitely try him a few times before any decision is made.

I have not put anything into the horse yet, I have just been told about it and was wondering what COTH recommends. Thanks for the words of wisdom! Will keep you updated.

Still wouldn't do it even without a loan. You say you want a horse to learn the YR kind of stuff on, and yet this horse is, at most doing 2nd level. YR is 4th/PSG. You need a schoolmaster type of horse to teach you that kind of stuff.

I also agree that his scores aren't even remotely what I would want to see in a potential YR horse. If he were a good FEI prospect, he should (for the most part) be scoring low to mid 70's at lower levels and high 60's low 70's at 4th/PSG.

quietann
Jul. 1, 2011, 09:09 AM
Schoolmasters are hard to find, but there's a really good article in this month's Dressage Today about "imperfect" schoolmasters, UL horses with physical maintenance issues etc. who know all the moves and the cues but might not be winners in the arena. A horse like that might be worth looking into.

ponies4evur
Jul. 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
Have you talked to the person who would be owning the horse with you? Maybe you could try a lease type arrangement. That way there isn't too much loss on your end and you wouldn't need a loan. Since most of your posts have been about you wanting the opportunity to ride this horse I don't see why it would be a bad idea unless the main owner is unwilling. Tell the owner that you want the opportunity to ride the horse consistently for a while, maybe they're busy and you'd be assisting them by riding the horse. That was your first offer try to come up with something that works for everyone. Hope it works out(:

luvmydutch
Jul. 2, 2011, 09:15 PM
I took out a 2 year loan to buy my dutch warmblood...it was the best, most impulsive, most incredibly rewarding decision i ever made :) Bought her as a weanling, paid off her loan while boarding her for 2+ years, then sent her to pro training for 60 days. I now have a 3 year old mega talented, makes my heart sing, awesome dream horse.

I would, however NEVER EVEREREREVVERERER EVERRRRRRRRRR CO-OWN. Horse people are crazy and horses make people so passionate and emotional.

My advice: wait till you're out of school and buy something under saddle OR

buy a nice baby now (if you are a good/experienced horseperson) and when you're done with school you'll have the horse you want all to yourself :)

I did just that my first year out of college (3 years ago). I had just gotten my first big girl job....I was driving a 1994 Toyota Corolla with 3 broken windows...the only one that wasn't broken was the drivers window, which i had to roll down to open my car door from the outside hahaha

But i had a dutch warmblood :D:D:D:D:D Rode her today and thanked my lucky stars a million times i made such an impulsive decision haha

paulaedwina
Jul. 2, 2011, 10:01 PM
I did just that my first year out of college (3 years ago). I had just gotten my first big girl job....I was driving a 1994 Toyota Corolla with 3 broken windows...the only one that wasn't broken was the drivers window, which i had to roll down to open my car door from the outside hahaha

But i had a dutch warmblood Rode her today and thanked my lucky stars a million times i made such an impulsive decision haha

In a nutshell.:lol: Isn't that the truth. My BNT drives a POS truck but has an amazing WB that's always in the ribbons. I drive a 97 Tahoe and sink all my money into horses; lessons, gear, etc.

Paula

2tempe
Jul. 3, 2011, 09:06 AM
OP - if you are going to go forth on this, I would raise the following thoughts /suggestions:
1. As mentioned before - VERY detailed contract of arrangements and who pays what
2. Get an outside opinion as to what this horse is worth; you haven't mentioned the $ numbers, and I dont want to know, but you should be sure you are getting a fair price.
3. Be prepared to get pressured into buying the second half of said horse in the not to distant future. Other owner will decide he/she wants out and you'll be in a position of either seeing the horse sold or coughing up more $$.
4. Get a pre-purchase done on the horse.
5. I've missed the answer to whether or not you have ridden the horse. If not, do it, more than once or twice and make sure its a match.
6. Put together a realistic budget for training, vet, board, etc etc and have a plan for any extraordinary expenses.

I got into one of these deals many years ago w/ a breeder friend. Got lucky, first half of horse was given to me ( ie FREE) as a weanling in exchange for working with her on basic stuff that babies should know. Second half bought out as a 2 yr old for $750; She became my carriage driving horse a couple years later and was actually pretty successful.

In the schoolmaster area, I bought a 15 yr old 6 yrs ago for relatively little $$. He had shown PSG and knew more. A 4-legged saint and sound but not highly priced as he was a TB. Took me from training level to PSG in 4 years. Taught me how to do piaffe and 1-tempes. His biggest flaw was that he was a challenge to collect to the degree desired for PSG and that left us just short of silver medal scores. I wouldn't have traded that time for anything.

merrygoround
Jul. 3, 2011, 11:03 AM
I am with buck22 (and others).

The heartbreak of feeling like I misplaced trust is not one I'd wish on anyone at any time.

This comes to my mind. I have seen this way too often.

Horse's ability overstated.

Partner always just a little, (sometimes a lot) financially behind.

Investor of time, money and trust (in this case, you) left high and dry.

This may not be the case here, but it does sound familiar.

Shenandoah
Jul. 3, 2011, 11:39 AM
The majority of successfull young riders I have seen have been subsidized by their parents or a benefactor. There is also the question of the rider's ability to train a YR horse. Many people dream of training and competing a horse to the upper levels, but realistically fewer than most never attain their goal due to finances or talent limitations. Many of the YR horses I have seen were trained by professionals then passed on to a young rider to compete. Best of luck to you in your quest.