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View Full Version : Bleeder study spinoff - dealing with one?



jvanrens
Jun. 28, 2011, 03:53 PM
Just curious, as we have a STB bleeder in the barn, and I'm wondering how others out there deal with them so they don't bleed as much? For example, some of the local trainers don't jog/train them hard, just treat them with lazix before racing. My SO and the track vet both agree that working them regularly and fairly tough works better, as you want the lungs as strong as possible so they'll be lessed stressed racing.

Thoughts anyone?

Jo

Chicken Legs
Jun. 28, 2011, 04:05 PM
Just curious, as we have a STB bleeder in the barn, and I'm wondering how others out there deal with them so they don't bleed as much? For example, some of the local trainers don't jog/train them hard, just treat them with lazix before racing. My SO and the track vet both agree that working them regularly and fairly tough works better, as you want the lungs as strong as possible so they'll be lessed stressed racing.

Thoughts anyone?

Jo
I think the proper warm up is a good way to start to prevent bleeding but once they become a gusher, where they bleed from both nostrils, then you have to develop a plan B.

If the horse is a bad bleeder, it becomes necessary to treat them with anti bleeding medication before they breeze. Once they start bleeding heavily it becomes a psychological issue too. It is very scary to have the feeling of suffocating in your own blood. I galloped horse for 37 years (yes, I'm that old)
and I found that real bleeders were pretty nervous. Who could blame them.

You have to work on their mind and their lungs at the same time. Allen Jerkins feels that a lot of bleeders do become so
hyper and nervous about breezing that he found he had to slip works in at the end of a horse's gallop so they did not even
realize they were working until it was over.

jvanrens
Jun. 28, 2011, 04:36 PM
I think the proper warm up is a good way to start to prevent bleeding but once they become a gusher, where they bleed from both nostrils, then you have to develop a plan B.

If the horse is a bad bleeder, it becomes necessary to treat them with anti bleeding medication before they breeze. Once they start bleeding heavily it becomes a psychological issue too. It is very scary to have the feeling of suffocating in your own blood. I galloped horse for 37 years (yes, I'm that old)
and I found that real bleeders were pretty nervous. Who could blame them.

Merle is a bad bleeder, per the track vet who scoped him after a race sans lazix. Now by breezing, can you put that into STB terms? I'm assuming that's a fast workout? Almost race time? What the guys here would call training? I'm new to the STB racing, just been immersed in it the past few years, moreso the past almost 2 since I've taken up with a trainer.


You have to work on their mind and their lungs at the same time. Allen Jerkins feels that a lot of bleeders do become so hyper and nervous about breezing that he found he had to slip works in at the end of a horse's gallop so they did not even realize they were working until it was over.

That sounds like what my SO said about Merle, though he's getting tired of the breaking, he bought some trotting hobble to try on him when he qualifies Thursday. We're trying things to calm him down, my epsom salts are going down at an alarming rate on SO's racehorses. ;) He's so hot but is so stressed at the track, actually last week was the first night he wasn't vibrating in the paddock, even during a major thunderstorm that held up races for an hour. I think there's some improvement, though he was still an ass when he hit the track though. I'm hoping time will help him but my SO is almost at the end of his rope with this one, I think he's giving him more time because I really like the dufus. I have to find a way to get riding him, I might be able to get him to relax a bit, but I'm not really in shape to ride a hot racehorse and my QH! :lol:

Chicken Legs
Jun. 28, 2011, 05:22 PM
Merle is a bad bleeder, per the track vet who scoped him after a race sans lazix. Now by breezing, can you put that into STB terms? I'm assuming that's a fast workout? Almost race time? What the guys here would call training? I'm new to the STB racing, just been immersed in it the past few years, moreso the past almost 2 since I've taken up with a trainer.



That sounds like what my SO said about Merle, though he's getting tired of the breaking, he bought some trotting hobble to try on him when he qualifies Thursday. We're trying things to calm him down, my epsom salts are going down at an alarming rate on SO's racehorses. ;) He's so hot but is so stressed at the track, actually last week was the first night he wasn't vibrating in the paddock, even during a major thunderstorm that held up races for an hour. I think there's some improvement, though he was still an ass when he hit the track though. I'm hoping time will help him but my SO is almost at the end of his rope with this one, I think he's giving him more time because I really like the dufus. I have to find a way to get riding him, I might be able to get him to relax a bit, but I'm not really in shape to ride a hot racehorse and my QH! :lol:

Breezing is a workout that is almost racing speed. It can be an easy maintenance work where they aren't going full blast but it can also be a work where they go a lot faster.

The thing to keep in mind is that once they start bleeding,
is extremely difficult to turn it around. So everyone uses lasix to help the horse function while racing. My vet describes as
a similar situation to a tendon - once those tissues are damaged in the lungs it is a cellular tear that will always be there in the form of scar tissue. So you need to find what prerace ideas your vet has to keep him settled legally and find the right dose of lasix to keep him from bleeding.

It is a huge problem. I think some people have had good luck using a hyperbaric chamber for bleeders. But hyperbaric therapy is very expensive.

There is so much for all of us to figure out with bleeding. I have a filly who last year was as honest as the day is long, always hitting the board and won two races but this year bleeds like a pig. We gave her the winter off and brought her back sensibly. I have no idea what caused her to bleed but I can't run her again until we find the right dose of lasix for her or just retire her.

Not very helpful, I'm afraid. Good luck with your horse.

Pristine
Jul. 2, 2011, 04:44 PM
You could try adding Vitamin K to the diet. It is important for the blood and bone and it is the antidote for Warfarin which was used to cause rats to bleed to death internally by keeping their blood from clotting.

sk_pacer
Jul. 2, 2011, 07:53 PM
For us, breezing is 15-20 seconds slowe than race time - what we call a blowout mile.

I agree that some of the bleeding problems are caused by not getting enough air into them when they are 'babies': more miles required and more distance every day rather than two laps of the track which seems so prevelant now. Those long slow miles go a long ways to building soft tissue, heart muscle and to developing lung function. The old timers used to jog babies until they could jog 5-6 miles a day and come in without blowing before they would start working them down. Same with horses after a layoff - never turn a mile until they don't blow after jogging. This translates into a minimum of 500 jog miles for babies (even if said baby is 5) and 300 for a horse that has raced a season or more.

There were very few bleeders in Standardbreds until people started short jogging and turning horses before they were really fit enough to handle it. Worst case I saw was a few years ago - young, lazy trainer who seemed to think that blasting a few times around a half-mile track in a 40 shot was enough jogging and one mile in 20 per week was going to get the horse fit. He barely qualified and first race he bled like a stuck pig. He wasn't fit, no where near fit - all washy and then lathered during the race, could have blown down the straw house, and bled bad.

I don't really know if any of the bleeder remedies in supplements work, I have never had a bleeder, or at least one bad enough that a change in routine didn't help (winter or summer racing only). I have no qualms about using lasix, however, it isn't used here and it's been hypothesised that lasix is ineffectual in higher altitudes; may well be true as horses that race at the west coast or Ontario and have that L beside the lines do not bleed at this altitude and higher.

RE: breaking. Does this guy hit anywhere? Shoeing done right? There has been a lot go by the wayside over the last several years with trotters - balancing and rigging them right has all but disappeared because hopples are the norm now rather than a last resort. Please remember, I am old enough to have seen trotters racing with crossed pacing hopples and to remember the first trotting hopples which weren't much different than the new ones except they were heavy things contructed from the front loops of leather pacing hopples and rigged with clothesline rope threaded through a pulley attached to the bike.