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katie+tru
Jun. 25, 2011, 03:40 PM
This may turn into a rant real easily... I'm fuming.

I am riding in a two day clinic next week that takes place at two facilities. The woman, the BM of the facility that is hostingthe clinic on the first day is arranging the whole thing. Entries were sent to her, she's arranging the schedule, etc.

So two days ago she sends out the ride times for both days. There are quite a handful of riders that are going as Novice so she has made two groups of them it seems. One is going at 7:30am and the other at 10:30. No one was informed of when rides would begin so I had no clue things would start as early as 7:30.

She put me in the 7:30 group.

Let's get some things straight now... I am not riding my own horse (she belongs to my trainer),I am atleast a 2 1/2 hour drive from the facility, and another girl from my barn is riding in the 10:30 group. I told the BM all of this right away when I saw the times. Granted, she had no way of knowing this, but like I said, I honestly did not imagine rides starting before 9:00. I also told her that if I was expected to be riding this early I would be coming completely alone since my trainer works overnight and would not be able to come drive with me, let alone see me ride, not to mention the other girl that is coming later. I have no one else to come with me. Boyfriend has work, mom is having health issues that prevent her from driving very long, dad just got a new job and can't ask off. I would be driving into another state alone, which I am not entirely comfortable with. Basically, I would be getting up at around 3:00am to get there in time to feed the horse breakfast and let it digest in time. That is ridiculous to me, especially for a clinic... it's not a show.

She refuses to put me in the 10:30 group, citing that there are already 5 riders. This seems like a stupid reason because someone in that group has got to be more local than me. I recognized many of the names on the list and I know those people are atleast from that area of the state. I asked if any of these closer riders could be switched with me. I am waiting for a reply...

Am I being irrational or too demanding by saying I am not exactly willing to wake up in the wee hours of the morning to drive a long distance alone and ride someone else's horse alone when the owner of said horse, and another rider of hers are coming for the second group? My trainer is saying that I should threaten to pull out of the second day of the clinic and demand a refund to see if that will get her to budge. Or, ask the clinician himself if I could join the later group... which I'm thinking may come across as way to bold and conceited looking.

I really, really do not want to skip the second day of the clinic. I have wanted to ride with this clinician for a long time now and I finally had the money to enter and the horse was available. I do not get to go out often to anything and this is a serious opportunity for me.

shea'smom
Jun. 25, 2011, 03:54 PM
There are some organizers like that down here. It makes you appreciate the flexible ones.
I hope someone will switch with you. I'd prefer to ride at 7:30 given th. e choice so maybe you'll get lucky.

Equisis
Jun. 25, 2011, 03:58 PM
Don't contact the clinician. It is not his job to work out scheduling issues. If you asked about switching with another rider, wait and see what comes of that. You might be stuck with the earlier time- happens sometimes. I've ridden in clinics as early as 7am; maybe this is a lesson to speak to the organizers ahead of time if you are traveling a distance and have time preferences. I wouldn't skip the second day out of spite, though, especially if you want to ride with this person so badly. You need to decide if the ride and the experience is worth the inconvenience of leaving early.

PNWjumper
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:02 PM
Why don't you ask someone from the later group if they'll switch with you? And did you ask the clinic organizer if she could switch you with someone else? From your explanation it sounds like you whined about it and asked if she could move you (I totally respect her decision not to add another rider to an already large-sized group), but did you actually ask if there was anyone she could switch you with?

It doesn't sound like the clinic organizer is being irrational....not terribly accomodating to you, perhaps, but I don't think she sounds in the wrong. Especially if she didn't know your preferences ahead of time. There are a lot of details that go into planning clinics, and I can't blame her for not wanting to move around a bunch of stuff for one rider who's doesn't *want* to go early, but *can.*

It's your own choice to do a clinic that far away. I often do the same thing. I've been in 7:30am sections many times where I've got a 30 minute ferry boat ride and 2-3 hours of driving time in front of me. I usually plan things to get to the clinic place at or around 7. How much time do you think your horse needs to digest food? I certainly don't worry about that in a clinic setting. I let my horse eat as I'm tacking up and then feed any grain (or whatever else they get) after the session.

I would take a deep breath, talk to the riders in the 10:30 section to see if anyone would be interested in switching with you, and then go with whatever times work out.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:04 PM
Honestly...you are being unfair.

To me...this is more your problem than the organizers. You can be nice and ask to see if any of the riders in the 10:30 group will switch with you but getting up early to go to a clinic alone isn't a big deal. I have gotten up as early as 3am MANY times for the 2-3 hour drive alone to a clinic or competition---a few times I've gotten up early!

You needed to have said your concerns (not riding before 9am and wanting to be in the same group as your barnmate) when you entered...not after the times are set. Just use this as a lesson learned.


Whether you choose to drop out or not is your choice...but if you did, to me you shouldn't get any money back.

SevenDogs
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:04 PM
Sorry, but my opinion is that if you enter a clinic or show, you need to be prepared to ride any time that day (from 7:00 am to 6:00 pm). Since you are eager to ride with this clinician, I am assuming he/she is popular. Why would you ever assume rides would not start until after 9:00 am?

In a busy clinic or show setting, there will always be times that are better than others. Sometimes you get lucky on the draw and sometimes you don't. Demanding your money back because you don't like your ride time is just plain ridiculous and would be a one way ticket to being deleted from any clinic I organized in the future (and I seriously question your trainer's judgement in suggesting you make threats to try to improve your ride time... totally unacceptable).

You can always make special requests, but you are not entitled to them. If you can only ride in a specific window, either don't enter or see if the organizer will accept a conditional entry (e.g. if you can't schedule me between certain hours, please don't schedule me at all). An Organizer is not obligated to accommodate you and please don't make such requests simply out of convenience. Guess what? ... no one is thrilled to draw that early slot. Sometimes, you need to suck it up and ride and not play diva.

Duckz
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:07 PM
Honestly? If no one is willing to switch and you're really looking forward to working with the clinician, you should just go. Yes, the organizer is being difficult. But you're only punishing yourself and I doubt she'd offer a refund. I wouldn't go over her head and talk to the clinician either as that would come across as unprofessional.

FWIW I routinely have to travel 2 1/2 hours to get anywhere and this happens more often than not, even when I request a later time. My alarm has gone off before 2 AM on occasions.

I hope someone switches with you. Getting up four hours before the sun isn't my idea of a good time either.

seeuatx
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:08 PM
If this is the clinic I'm thinking of then considering that stabling was offered at a very reasonable rate for 3 days, and free day stabling at the XC facility I think you are being a tad unreasonable.

This is a very popular clinic especially in light of recent events, and they offered a lot of different level groupings and even semi/ and privates. That's a lot to fit into 2 days. Most clinics I have been to start at 8ish, so I'm not sure why 7:30 is such a surprise. And I think it's a little unreasonable to expect the organizer to rearrange other people's schedule to serve you. If you needed to be in the same group as the other girl you could have put a note on the entry.

I do agree with PNWJumper that you could nicely ask a more local 10 oclock rider if they might switch with you... but they may have their own reasons for not being able to do so. You could also ask the XC facility if you could take the horse there for just that night between and the day stabling for a small extra charge. You gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't think the organizer should have to refund you your money.

katie+tru
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:15 PM
I do not know anyone in the 10:30 group... recognize some names, but don't actually know them. Would it be approprite to ask the organizer for their e-mails and contact them myself?

It's not just the early wake up issue... it's the having to drive there myself thing, especially driving home. I am not a good tired driver. I have scared myself a couple times with close calls because of driving tired and by myself. This is why I wanted to ride with my trainer and the other girl or have a family member/bf with me. I would actually be a bit concerned for my own safety driving home after such an early morning, nevertheless making sure I get there without getting lost in the first place.

SevenDogs
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:15 PM
I wouldn't go over her head and talk to the clinician either as that would come across as unprofessional.


An Organizer is way more valuable to a clinician than any single rider. It is the Organizer than hires and pays the clinician. Typically, it is a very mutual relationship, but it is clear that anyone that would talk about "going over the Organizer's head to the Clinician" has no idea how the process works. Consider volunteering for a clinic and/or show to understand how the process works and why your whining about a ride time falls on deaf ears.

OP: Either pull up your big girl panties and figure out a solution (e.g. go the night before, etc.) or withdraw. Just don't expect a refund because you don't like your ride time. Seriously.

katie+tru
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:16 PM
If this is the clinic I'm thinking of then considering that stabling was offered at a very reasonable rate for 3 days, and free day stabling at the XC facility I think you are being a tad unreasonable.



Either we are not thinking of the same clinic or you heard wrong. Stabling at the XC facility is not free. The rate has nothing to do with it... the horse is only stabling one night at the XC facility. That was a given, never an issue.

SLR
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:28 PM
Um, If its a two day clinic and you ride at 2:00 on Tues. and &:7:30 on Wed. Wouldn't you be stabling over Tues nite?

katie+tru
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:39 PM
Um, If its a two day clinic and you ride at 2:00 on Tues. and &:7:30 on Wed. Wouldn't you be stabling over Tues nite?

Yes. I said that... the horses are stabling at the second facility Tuesday night so that they'll be there Wednesday morning. Getting the horses there is not the issue. Getting myself there is.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:41 PM
I do not know anyone in the 10:30 group... recognize some names, but don't actually know them. Would it be approprite to ask the organizer for their e-mails and contact them myself?

It's not just the early wake up issue... it's the having to drive there myself thing, especially driving home. I am not a good tired driver. I have scared myself a couple times with close calls because of driving tired and by myself. This is why I wanted to ride with my trainer and the other girl or have a family member/bf with me. I would actually be a bit concerned for my own safety driving home after such an early morning, nevertheless making sure I get there without getting lost in the first place.


Perfectly fine to ask the organizer about checking for you if someone wants to switch. I've organized many clinics and done that for people before.

You should be fine--if you can work a normal work week...there is no reason you can't make a drive like this a few days in a row. Just make sure you get to BED EARLY the night before, pack some snacks for the drive and if you feel tired while driving...make a pit stop, get out of your truck and get a soda or coffee. Learn to be a bit more independent....and smart about things. Make sure you sleep, stay hydrated at the clinic and eat food. The key is get a good nights sleep...if you got 6-8 hours you should be fine no matter what time you get up!

I compete a LOT by my self...and get up early. While nice to have people with you...it is also very nice to be independent enough (because I know how to manage myself) to be able to do it alone.

Canaqua
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:44 PM
You are just one person in what sounds like a very busy clinic with an in demand clinician. Threatening to cancel will get you nowhere, as will the complaining and negotiating. This is a case in which you are going to have to suck it up and do what you have to to make it work if you want to participate. Honestly, getting up at 3am and driving a few hours alone is a small price to pay to ride with a clinician you really want to ride with. Shoot, many of us do that kind of thing on a regular basis for reasons FAR less fun, but just because I have to to meet an obligation, like work travel or dealing with family health emergencies.

Angelray
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:47 PM
I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.

SLR
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:52 PM
I think its completely reasonable for you to request that the organizer change your ride time so you won't have to get up early. After all, they should know that you are special, and other people should get the early ride time so you can be accomodated. Especially since you did not tell the organizer up front that you might have an issue with your drive time. Since you are so special, she should have known that.
Better yet, why don't you get her to change the clinician's flight times, so he can stay longer, and so she can start the XC portion of the clinic later to please you.
There appears to be a pattern here.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:53 PM
I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.


Spoken like someone who has never organized a significant clinic and probably not attended that many. I organize clinics all the time....there is absolutely NO WAY in HELL that I would be able to tell people are from the same farm even IF you put an address on the entry--nor would I keep track of that when setting the times. If they put a note that they would prefer a later time...or are coming with a rider that they named...then, yes. I would keep track of that information and try to accomodate them. But to assume that the orgnaizer will sort that out off your entry is so totally unreasonable as to be laughable.

amm2cd
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:57 PM
Yes. I said that... the horses are stabling at the second facility Tuesday night so that they'll be there Wednesday morning. Getting the horses there is not the issue. Getting myself there is.


Ok, I might be getting mixed up here, but the horse is already at the facility and the fuss is to get yourself there in time to feed for your 7:30 ride?
If you don't have horses and/or responsabilities at home, I'd spend the night in a hotel. If you add up gas costs of driving back and forth, it'll probably come out to the same.

kinnip
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:57 PM
Wow! I get up that early to drive to a show and scribe!

faybe
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:58 PM
(which would have been obvious from the entry forms)

It is not the organizer's job to make inferences from entries, they have enough on their plates. The OP should have included a note with her entry about her situation if she was concerned about being scheduled at different times from her barnmates.

OP, I can understand how frustrating it is for original plans not to work out, but if no one will switch with you I think you have to decide what you want to do. If the clinician is worth it for you, get up early and drive. If not, don't go. I could maybe understand your frustration if you were hauling your horse back and forth at all hours of the night and morning (I know some people are more nervous hauling than others) but your horse will already be there? Goodness, just spend the night with him! I wouldn't want to be three hours away with my horse in an unfamiliar barn anyway. Perhaps you have obligations back home that prevent this, but 3 hours each way back and forth for the whole clinic seems impractical, especially if you're leaving your horse behind.

jenm
Jun. 25, 2011, 04:58 PM
It probably would have helped the organizer if the two people from the same barn requested they be in the same group. The organizer may also have thought that since the horses are arriving the night before, the riders would as well.

I do hope the OP finds a way to switch groups, but if not, would going the night before and staying in a hotel or camping on the stable grounds be an option?

Canaqua
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:01 PM
Spoken like someone who has never organized a clinic. I organize clinics all the time....there is absolutely NO WAY in HELL that I would even notice where people are coming from--or be able to tell they are from the same farm even IF you put an address on the entry. If they put a note that they would prefer a later time...or are coming with a rider that they named...then, yes. I would keep track of that information. But to assume that the orgnaizer will sort that out off your entry is so totally unreasonable as to be laughable.

I've never organized a clinic, but I have to say I'm in agreement with this! I've organized enough other things, that the idea of intuiting the specific needs of one individual in a group and taking them into account is ridiculous. If someone had a true disability, not just "it's inconvenient for me" or "I don't like it that way", that would have to be communicated upfront and some expectation of accommodation would be reasonable.

fooler
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:03 PM
I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.

Obvious only if the riders and/or trainer requested they be in the same group. Just because they are both at Novice level does not mean they belong in the same group and some trainers prefer to have students in different groups so they can focus on the clinician's comments on each rider individually.

To the OP you could trailer over the day before and either camp in the trailer or get a room for the night. Check with the organizer, she may know other 7:30 riders doing the same and you could share a room.
I agree that your choices are to gut it up and go or pull out all together.
As a lesson learned, communicate your travel, stabling and grouping preferences clearly and early with any organizer.
Good Luck

katie+tru
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:09 PM
1. Didn't include this, forgot. The other rider from my barn was a late entry so I did not know she was coming when I entered. The entry forms did not even ask if there were other riders you wanted to be grouped with. Very little was asked on the entries actually... kind of surprising.

2. Getting a motel room is out of the question. No money.

3. I'm not trying to be "special". I realize there is a lot of information that the organizer did not know and could not have deducted on her own. That's why I immediately told her when the times came out. I thought surely it would not be hard for her to switch me with someone else... that seemed like an obvious solution. And like I said, I never fathomed a clinic starting at 7:30. Sorry, haven't cliniced much, didn't know that was common.

ACMEeventing
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:22 PM
Sorry, but I think you're going to have to chalk this one up to experience.

It sounds like you made a polite effort to switch your ride time (which was unsuccessful), so now you just have to decide how much it's worth it to you to go.

Insisting on a refund, "boycotting" this clinician or complaining any more to the organizer is just going to come accross as immature and unsportsmanlike. Being a poor sport is not a label that you want and is difficult to shake once applied.

Go to the clinic and have fun, it will make for a great story some day:)

Xctrygirl
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:23 PM
Look I have done my share of clinics and early mornings. It sucks, but this is life with horses and it will do you some good to start working with how to cope with this.

This clinic is with Boyd Martin. Really????? You think it's wise to complain about how one element of your logistics for this weekend might be a hair difficult?? Do you think he's had an easy go of it lately????? And shame on your trainer for suggesting that threatening the organizer of a full withdrawl is a wise course of action.

My advice, go to bed early after a full dinner. Have your car packed and ready.

Talk to some of the people here who may live close by or are attending this clinic at White North or South Farm, and see is you can couch surf or stay with local eventers and watch some more divisions to learn more.

That would be something that'd help your finances and your education.

~Emily

Jaegermonster
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:33 PM
[QUOTE=katie+tru;5683292].

2. Getting a motel room is out of the question. No money.

/QUOTE]

If you can afford the gas to drive 2 hour or whatever you said it was into another state (and I still don't get why that matters, it's the same as driving down the street, only longer) then use that money and stay over at a Motel 6.
seriously. I would even consider bringing a change of clothes and sleeping in my car or truck.

kalidascope
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:37 PM
2. Getting a motel room is out of the question. No money.

But you have money for gas? That's gotta cost a little bit ($50?) for 5 hours worth of driving (2.5 each way)? Surely enough for a cheap motel? You can pack your own food.

What about sleeping in your car? Do you have any friends/family closer to the venue that you could ask to sleep on their couch for the night?

If not, I'd just hope for the best but prepare to suck it up. Grab a coffee on the way home and stop for power naps if required, to get yourself back safely :)

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:39 PM
Very little was asked on the entries actually... kind of surprising.




Not surprising at all. All the organizers need to know is what is your experience level. It is on YOU to let them know anything "special".


The amount you are spending on gas is probably the same as a hotel room. You can also just bring a tent or sleeping bag and rough it a bit.

If this is a clinic with Boyd...he will LOVE it if you rough it in a sleeping bag. He does that all the time.

Angelray
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=faybe;5683277]It is not the organizer's job to make inferences from entries, they have enough on their plates. The OP should have included a note with her entry about her situation if she was concerned about being scheduled at different times from her barnmates.

I do agree that including a note about scheduling requests would have been the ideal thing to do in this case. I have helped to organize clinics at my barn. One of my jobs was to contact all of the participants about ride times to make sure everyone could be there at their assigned time. This seemed to me to be a reasonable thing to do and I didn't realize it was so uncommon.

jumpsnake
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:47 PM
Yes. I said that... the horses are stabling at the second facility Tuesday night so that they'll be there Wednesday morning. Getting the horses there is not the issue. Getting myself there is.

Is there a Motel 6 or other such cheapie motel, or perhaps someone you know from the area, that would let you stay with them? Then you would be closer and would not have to get up as early. I thought this was the first day.... and I agreed with others that sucking it up is part of horses, but if it is the second day's ride times, just stay in the area. I am not wealthy either-- but seriously, there are fairly cheap hotels out there.

Xctrygirl
Jun. 25, 2011, 05:57 PM
Here, I did your homework,

http://www.motel6.com/reservations/motel_detail.aspx?num=2012&NOA=&aYr=&aMo=&aDa=&dYr=&dMo=&dDa=&CP=&TA=

$39.99 a night.

8 miles from North farm, and within 15 from South farm as well.

Less than a tank of gas (for my subaru anyway)

~Emily

Timex
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:09 PM
Ok, you didn't know the other rider was going, next time, make a note on the entry asking to have a time close to that of rider X.

Do NOT go bugging the clinician, and shame on your trainer for suggesting you threaten the organizer. Not cool, on so many levels.

If you're driving 2.5 miles each way, save yourself the gas $$ (5 hours total drive time, so what, around 300 miles round trip?) And get a cheapie hotel room. It will work out to roughly the same, and would allow you the chance to watch rides after yours on the first day, without you worrying about the drive home. And the 'I have no $$' line doesn't fly, since you managed to pay for the clinic.

It's a popular clinic, and you're surprised times start @ 730? If that many people are eager to rider with a clinician, then you can expect to see early start times. Organizers will use all the time they can, and fill as many riding slots as possible.

CaitlinandTheBay
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:09 PM
http://www.couchsurfing.org/


Several of my friends have had excellent experiences using this to couch surf across the US and Europe.

deltawave
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:13 PM
Am I being irrational or too demanding by saying I am not exactly willing to wake up in the wee hours of the morning to drive a long distance alone and ride someone else's horse alone when the owner of said horse, and another rider of hers are coming for the second group?

Yes, I'm afraid so.

How is the organizer supposed to know all of this stuff about whose horse belongs to whom?

Driving alone to clinics, shows, and other venues is THE NORM in the horse world. :) not many people see this as either a monstrous hardship or "unfair". It is simply the way it goes.

A lot of people preferreally early ride times for various reasons. Organizers cannot possibly know who prefers what unless a rider SAYS SOMETHING AHEAD OF TIME. If you know an early start will be tough that weekend, send a note with your entry: "prefer later times if possible". Simple. :)

I would go and enjoy yourself. Life is neither perfect nor always convenient.

jn4jenny
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:14 PM
I understand that you're annoyed. VERY annoyed, clearly, based on your responses. But regardless of what you think the clinic organizer should or should not do for you, she's obviously not going to do what you want. So you should move on to fixing the predicament.

Start putting out leads to get yourself a couch/floor to sleep on. Start a COTH thread to that effect and email the clinic organizer to see if she'll consider forwarding your "beg" to the clinic participants. Eventers are good people and someone will help you.

As for getting there "early enough for the horse to digest its breakfast," talk to your trainer about that issue. I know MY trainer would respond by saying that the horse won't die from getting its breakfast at 10 a.m. instead of 7 a.m. as long as I throw hay as soon as I'm on the property and allow the horse to keep munching while I groom/tack. There's another half hour of sleep for you.

helpthisalter
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:21 PM
Um... I'm sorry but I don't think you have reason to be upset here. If you needed a certain ride time you should have asked all those questions ahead of time to the organizer.

This is an awesome opportunity, get a hotel room, sleep in your car, or stop at Starbucks. Go to bed early and you will be fine.

NeverTime
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:27 PM
I totally feel your pain on the driving tired thing. I've had far too many close calls with my "driving-induced narcolepsy" and I've learned to either nap before I hit the road or pull over and shut my eyes for a few minutes. Your rides times surely allow you time to do one of these things or, as someone else mentioned, sleep in your vehicle. if it's big enough to pull a trailer, it's big enough to sleep in. You are riding early the last day, so no problem riding then going home to shower.
After ride times have been assigned and sent to everybody, I really can't see the organizer taking the time to call around and ask someone else to ride I. Your slot. What's the expression... "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine"?
Start putting your energy toward resolving this situation on your own and finding a way to make it work.

AlterBy
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:34 PM
Or could you just prepare your horse's food and ask someone from your 7:30am group to feed your horse that morning (for a little $ of course)?
So you'll have your horse fed as early as the others and you'll have a bit more time for yourself that morning...

And can't you just take a nap after your clinic, before driving back?!?

Sorry but you shouldn't be angry...it just makes you sound like a spoiled kid...

Ghazzu
Jun. 25, 2011, 06:50 PM
I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.

Do we know that these entries were received together?
Honestly, I'd get myself there the night before if I did't want to be up driving there at 0 dark thirty.

Prime Time Rider
Jun. 25, 2011, 07:17 PM
Having organized a number of clinics, it's unreasonable for a clinic participant to expect the organizer to "know" or figure out that a rider can't ride at a specific time unless the clinic participant notifies the organizer ahead of time (preferably with your entry). Expecting the clinic organizer to include you in the other novice group is unreasonable. Many clinicians prefer a maximum number of riders per group (and sometime include it in their contract). Five per group is a large number, if you add another, you're taking time and attention away from the other clinic participants in that group. It's not the organizer's job to make certain that the ride time is convenient for you. Grow Up! Either spend the night, saving yourself time and gas money) or get up at 3 am and drive. I can't understand how you can have the money for a 2 day clinic but not enough for one night at a Motel 6. With gas costing about $3.50 a gallon, ten gallons of gas is going to cost you $35.00. The last thing that you want to do is to talk to the clinician; it's not his or her job to schedule the ride times.

seeuatx
Jun. 25, 2011, 07:30 PM
Either we are not thinking of the same clinic or you heard wrong. Stabling at the XC facility is not free. The rate has nothing to do with it... the horse is only stabling one night at the XC facility. That was a given, never an issue.

Nope, it's definitely the same clinic. It's not that stabling at SF is free it's that the stabling for XC day IS according to the flyer I received. I only mentioned that because I didn't catch that the horse was stabling overnight. I thought you were trailering in each day.

I'd just camp out in the trailer or the car. Not the 1st time I've done that at an event or clinic. Or get up early, get a ton of McD's coffee, ride, take a nap, head home.


I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.

I'm not sure what area you might be from AngelRay- but almost everyone in this area has to travel some distance to get to what little is actually hosted around here. Boycotting clinics and events hosted by this organizer would be cutting off your nose to spite your face considering they host 2 of the only handful of recognized events, multiple hunter paces and mini trials and are one of the few venues to actually bring GOOD clinicians in (Boyd, Jimmy W., etc) that are accessable to those of us in W. PA. Unless you live around Lexington, area VIII isn't exactly horsey mecca... we take what we can get.

JWB
Jun. 25, 2011, 07:41 PM
Sounds to me like you should get a hotel and stay over.

Generally refunds are not given unless they can fill your spot, but if it is such a high demand clinician, they may be able to find someone else who wants it more and will take the 7:30 ride time over nothing at all.

WishIWereRiding
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:32 PM
Why are there 3 pages on this topic? And even more important, why did I read it all??? :)

ACMEeventing
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:36 PM
Why are there 3 pages on this topic? And even more important, why did I read it all??? :)

Touche

VicariousRider
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:40 PM
I am surprised that you see this as a problem. I think it sounds very common, IME. If you wanted your trainer or someone else there with you and you know that early times are not good for those people then you should have said something up front. Period. If they can't switch you now then you're out of luck and it's your issue, not the clinic's. I agree: this is a lesson learned for you. If you aren't comfortable driving tired or going on your own then those are your problems. To many those aren't issues at all.

Also: Boyd is a very good friend and I will tell you right now that if he hears a word of this from you at the clinic, you are in for it. He has no tolerance for these types of complaints and has been known to sleep in his trailer for YEARS (under it, in fact, in a bivvy sack). So consider this your far warning: if you go don't talk about it.

I think that everyone has a good point about the cost of a hotel and gas. That sounds like a good plan to me.

ACMEeventing
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:54 PM
Well said VR. I think since we haven't heard from the OP in a while that she gets the point.

Maybe her experience will carry over to others. Tough lesson learned. The bottom line is that you get what you put in.

akor
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:56 PM
I haven't read all the replies, so maybe the OP has already come on and said sorry or something...if so, ignore me..

These types of attitudes likely ruin it for a lot of other people.

The OP is upset because someone didn't read her mind? And wants sympathy? I can't find any.

I always try to explain extenuating circumstances upfront. Or, if I forget, to call all mea culpa. Now, if you ask upfront, and things get messed up, then you can either chalk it up to honest mistake or decide they are out to get you. That can be up for debate.

Carol Ames
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:07 PM
Organizing clinics is a thankless:mad::no: job; could you find someone to feed your horse for you:confused:? That would be my solution; What time will your trainer be getting there? Can they help in someway? trailering/ , feeding/ :confused:, grooming?

supaflyskye
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:11 PM
I have been doing solitary long distance driving to pursue my equestrian endeavors literally since I got my driver's license. I have no sense of direction to this day, but being worried about getting lost keeps me awake. :)
I would not think twice about driving 3 hours for an early morning clinic ride, but were I in your situation I would probably sleep in my car. Saves a lot of time and money. If you have a truck or SUV it's really pretty easy to put together comfortable sleeping arrangements.

Hope the ride time/travel situation works out alright for you in one way or another.

yellowbritches
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:22 PM
Why are there 3 pages on this topic? And even more important, why did I read it all??? :)
Ditto....


Sorry but you shouldn't be angry...it just makes you sound like a spoiled kid...
...and, ditto.

Suck it up, Buttercup.

Carol Ames
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:23 PM
It is not their place to schedule riders; what good do you think that would do:confused:; have the organizer change the groups for you?

ACMEeventing
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:25 PM
Suck it up, Buttercup . . .

That never gets old.

yellowbritches
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:33 PM
Suck it up, Buttercup . . .

That never gets old.
What makes it even better is that I said it to my mom recently (I don't think I said it TO her, but said it while telling her a story...I typically don't talk to my mom like that!), and now SHE says it. Awesome. :yes:

Petstorejunkie
Jun. 25, 2011, 10:16 PM
Yes. I said that... the horses are stabling at the second facility Tuesday night so that they'll be there Wednesday morning. Getting the horses there is not the issue. Getting myself there is.
Then sleep in your trailer, camp, or get a hotel.
No one cares if your hair is tidy when on course.... sleep wherever you can get a good nights rest and enjoy the lack of sweltering heat riding at 7:30am

GatoGordo
Jun. 25, 2011, 10:54 PM
Do we know that these entries were received together?
Honestly, I'd get myself there the night before if I did't want to be up driving there at 0 dark thirty.
In fact, we know that the entries were NOT received together.

In the future, don't assume. If you want a specific timeframe, ask ahead of time what the schedule is likely to be and whether they can accommodate you. If you are trailering with someone else, mention it - even if you had already sent in your entry, your friend could have put on their form that they wanted the same time as you. No one can read minds, and something that seems obvious to you isn't necessarily obvious or important to the clinic organizer.

BTW, I DON'T think you should drive a long distance while tired - it's a good way to get into an accident. Instead, rent el cheapo motel room or sleep in a sleeping bag in the trailer, stay there the night before, and pull over and take a nap in the car if you feel sleepy while driving home. There are ways to work around it - it's not like the clinic is 18 hours a day and you don't have time to get sleep.

Laurierace
Jun. 25, 2011, 11:00 PM
Well I didn't see a poll but I vote no, you have no right to be mad.

Commander Cody
Jun. 26, 2011, 05:02 AM
PLUS I would, given any choice, not drive 2.5 hours away from my horse that I was leaving behind (after a hard day's work no less) to fend for himself. I almost always stay on grounds at shows in my trailer so that I can check my horses late at night and feed early. If they are working for me, then my comfort and sleep are not the priority. If you were in the 10:30 group, then when might you show up to care for your horse and feed?

Janet
Jun. 26, 2011, 06:18 AM
I've scheduled my share of clinics.

1) If you don't tell the organizer, don't expect her to know.

I used to avoid scheduling those with the most distant addresses in the first session, but then I got comments like "I liked the clininc, but wish I could have ridden earlier".

I don't make any assumptions about who wants to ride with whom unless they SAY SO. Often, people from the same barn or the same family prefer to be in DIFFERENT sessions.

2) Even if you tell the organizer your preferences, she may not be able to accomodate them.

It is a balancing act between meetng people's stated preferences, and putting together groups that will work well together, without one person holdiong back the group, or not being challenged.

Often, if there are two "Novice" groups, one group will be the ones "just starting Novice' and the other will be "Confirmed at Novice, thinking about Training". You can't just switch people between the two Novic groups.

There may be all sorts of other reasons not to switch.

OTTB FTW
Jun. 26, 2011, 10:02 AM
WOW!! Just......WOW......

saje
Jun. 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
Wow what?

Gry2Yng
Jun. 26, 2011, 08:42 PM
I think the OP is rightfully angry. Given that two riders from the same barn were coming from some distance away (which would have been obvious from the entry forms) it was inconsiderate of the organizer to put the two riders at different times, especially when one of the times was 7:30 am. There are always lots of clinics to attend. If it were me, I would boycott this organizer in the future.

I have organized A LOT of clinics and I don't go looking through the entries to determine friends, barnmates or other otherwise. It is not "obvious", as you state. I am looking for the experience of the horse and rider. Besides, there are plenty of barnmates who would rather kill themselves than ride in a car together. Assuming two people want to be in the same group just because they are in the same barn will be incorrect as often as not. That being said, my entries list the riders address and not the barn horse is stabled at, so that information would not be "obvious".

If you want the organizer to know something, use a post it note or an email. Not all organizers have psychic abilities. The OP can either find someone to switch or suck it up. 7:30 is a pretty typical start. I will notify everyone if I want to start early than 7 in order to keep groups small and accommodate as many riders as possible.

Popular clinic can fill her slot and maybe she will get her money back. Organizing clinics is a PITA, for exactly the reason the OP states. Personally, if asked nicely I would try to help. But I also support the organizer's option to say that it is what it is.

ETA: Just slept in my truck on Thursday night to avoid leaving a silly horse alone at a show. It was a last minute decision to stay. Worked out fine. Probably more comfortable than sharing a bed with my hubby. Start thinking outside the box if it is something you really want to do.

KateR
Jun. 27, 2011, 06:27 AM
Sleeping in your truck is pretty common at shows here, it is really rare for people to stay at a hotel, pretty much everyone camps at the grounds where we can keep an eye on the horses. Makes for some good parties since no-one has to drive :). Just make sure you have more than enough blankets, it always seems to be colder than you think it will be!

OTTB FTW
Jun. 27, 2011, 08:34 AM
Wow what?

Was shocked by the OP, was at a loss for words.
Don't have any constructive criticism so keeping my trap shut for a change :lol:

pegasusmom
Jun. 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
Was shocked by the OP, was at a loss for words.
Don't have any constructive criticism so keeping my trap shut for a change :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

I am very glad I no longer organize horse trials, dressage shows, clinics, schooling shows, polocrosse tournaments (USPC Championships will be my swan song) or anything other equine thing other than my very own combined driving schedule.

Thanks for the entertainment.

<insert dancing bananas like on one of my other boards here>

KC058
Jun. 27, 2011, 10:56 AM
My life with horses often involves a 4:30am morning. Just enjoy the clinic..

Someone pointed out a cheap hotel for you. 40$! Use it!!

mellsmom
Jun. 27, 2011, 02:14 PM
If you are feeling that uncomfortable with the situation, you won't enjoy it, so you might want to scratch.

Every time I have overridden that gut feeling I've been sorry.

poneezie
Jun. 27, 2011, 02:34 PM
1.set your alarm and get up a$$ early.
2.ask yourself, "why the hell do i do this, should i just get rid of my horses and sleep in every day and spend all my money on new shoes?"
3. drive there. blast the radio. roll your windows down.
4. have an awesome ride, learn a lot, realize how lucky you are to be able to spend your time horseback riding.
5. eat some mcdonalds. you deserve it
6. stay and watch your trainer and friend ride. youll learn more that way. twice the bang for the buck.

once all is said and done youll be glad you went, cheer up - youll be fine :).

WNT
Jun. 27, 2011, 02:36 PM
This time of year, I'd be ecstatic with a 7:30 ride time. I can't tolerate the heat and humidity in this part of the country, so the earlier the better, I say.

If you're worried about driving tired, leave the afternoon before. If you're on a budget (and I understand that position!), a tent and sleeping bag will last a long time and save you lots of hotel money.

ThirdCharm
Jun. 27, 2011, 03:04 PM
I am trying to figure out how an organizer is supposed to determine that riders are from the same barn based on their entry forms.

My address is in Midland, NC.
One of my boarders lives in Rock Hill, SC.
Another lives in New Salem, NC.
Another in Charlotte, NC.

Phone numbers of boarders and clients have the following area codes: 704, 980, 910, 203. Not a lot of clues there.

If I was riding in the clinic, I would have been tickled with an early ride tim--so I could get home early on day 2 and not have to pay someone for another feeding!--drove down the night before, and camped out in my truck or trailer if I couldn't afford a hotel room. The organizer isn't psychic, and they may have a perfectly legit reason to not want to switch riders....

Jennifer

SevenDogs
Jun. 27, 2011, 03:19 PM
Often, if there are two "Novice" groups, one group will be the ones "just starting Novice' and the other will be "Confirmed at Novice, thinking about Training". You can't just switch people between the two Novic groups.

There may be all sorts of other reasons not to switch.

This is absolutely true at many clinics that I have organized. I now ask all riders to specify experience levels of horse and rider (separately) on their entry form for this purpose. I have also looked up USEA records to try to get the best mix of riders possible. Novice is often the level where experience/success varies the most!

Organizers really want groups to make sense so that riders get as much as they can out of the experience.

As an organizer and a rider, I almost always take the worst possible time slot (8:00 am in the dead of winter and noon in the heat of summer). I take requests in to consideration as much as humanly possible when scheduling (distance, trailer mates, etc), but I always see the "whiners" coming a mile away (who, coincidentally, want the 8:00 am slot in the heat of summer but have every excuse in the world why they can't possibly ride that slot in winter).

nextyear
Jun. 27, 2011, 03:28 PM
Was shocked by the OP, was at a loss for words.
Don't have any constructive criticism so keeping my trap shut for a change :lol:

I thought it was "WOW" for there being so many pages on this.

The best quote was the "suck it up buttercup"

I hate getting up so early also, but everytime I have had a op to sleep in I am up 2 hours earlier than normal. Whats up with that??

BEARCAT
Jun. 27, 2011, 04:06 PM
I thought it was a sucky situation until I realized the HORSE is already there. (Trailering by one's self is not always enjoyable - extra $, sleepeeness as mentioned, etc.)
But the I realize it was a matter of the OP getting there that early - SLEEP IN THE TRAILER, or in a truck, a couch, a tack room corner.

Been there, done that, lived to ride another day!

tinyirishgnome
Jun. 27, 2011, 04:21 PM
[edited]

wcporter
Jun. 27, 2011, 04:55 PM
As someone who currently doesn’t have the time, money or resources to be a part of such a clinic (and would jump at the chance to do so), you'll get no sympathy from me hun.

Matter fact, you just sound whinny and bratty. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and complaining, use that time and energy to come up with a better plan!

Geeze. :rolleyes:

justkidding1989
Jul. 1, 2011, 11:47 PM
Sorry, but my opinion is that if you enter a clinic or show, you need to be prepared to ride any time that day (from 7:00 am to 6:00 pm). Since you are eager to ride with this clinician, I am assuming he/she is popular. Why would you ever assume rides would not start until after 9:00 am?

In a busy clinic or show setting, there will always be times that are better than others. Sometimes you get lucky on the draw and sometimes you don't. Demanding your money back because you don't like your ride time is just plain ridiculous and would be a one way ticket to being deleted from any clinic I organized in the future (and I seriously question your trainer's judgement in suggesting you make threats to try to improve your ride time... totally unacceptable).

You can always make special requests, but you are not entitled to them. If you can only ride in a specific window, either don't enter or see if the organizer will accept a conditional entry (e.g. if you can't schedule me between certain hours, please don't schedule me at all). An Organizer is not obligated to accommodate you and please don't make such requests simply out of convenience. Guess what? ... no one is thrilled to draw that early slot. Sometimes, you need to suck it up and ride and not play diva.

[edit] give her a break she is just expressing a concern not demanding its outrageous that she in the 7:30 spot, its disgusting to me how egotistical and rude equestrians are, share your opinions in a respectful way [edit]

justkidding1989
Jul. 1, 2011, 11:49 PM
As someone who currently doesn’t have the time, money or resources to be a part of such a clinic (and would jump at the chance to do so), you'll get no sympathy from me hun.

Matter fact, you just sound whinny and bratty. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and complaining, use that time and energy to come up with a better plan!

Geeze. :rolleyes:

once again, you called her whinny and bratty, im pretty sure you just whines about not having the time, money or resources...be happy with what you all have and that horses are part of your life at all.

justkidding1989
Jul. 1, 2011, 11:54 PM
I understand you. Maybe not this situation, but after seeing all the nasty responces i feel the need to stand at your side. Its not the clinicians job to worry about times, however its the organizers job to make a schedule. In the future i would def state that your coming from out of town and would prefer a later time, most of the time from my experience this isnt a problem for an organizer, at least a good one. My trainer organizes most of the clinics and such around our area and does it with amazing grace despite her insane schedule, and she seems to fit everyones tough work and school schedule in to boot. Your situation might be travel, mine would be working bank hours. In the end i know that there is a chance my schedule will conflict witht he clinic and its just not possible, but there are very few of us that can just open our scheules wide from 7am-7pm for a clinic, most people who are not in the professional field with horse have to work jobs to afford the horses, so its just a part of running a clinic knowing that there will be some scheduleing preferences. Just not wanting to ride at 7am is a different story, thats just being lazy. I honestly would prefer riding first in the morning while the trainer is fresh and not hungry and tired and ready for bed after a long day. That is all.

chizzle
Jul. 2, 2011, 12:54 AM
I've not read all the post so apologize if someone beat me to my comment.

#1. Most clinics do post some sort of tentative time schedule so check the flyer or whatever to see what the posted times were. If the times were posted on the flyer you should have been aware of that. Many times they also include a waiver - like if X level fills; level may be divided with an earlier start time..

#2 How old are you? Seriously driving to another state is really not a big deal.. typically there is just a sign that says thanks for visiting X State and Welcome to X state - and the speed limit might change. Now depending on your age and if your state has some type of age restriction for Driving (some states don't allow teens of a certain age to drive late at night-early am) You could bring that up to organizers attention. Apparently you are quite young so here's a reality check newsflash for you... I work in one state, live in another OMG...? it's a 20 mile commute - what should take 30 minutes often takes 1 to 2 hours EACH WAY..

I'm not sure why you, your trainer, and the other rider didn't include some note w/ your registration that both are driving some distance & the 3 of you would be traveling together but you didn't. Okay now the post where you say you're not a good driver when you're tired. I'm trying to understand this. You will be getting up early, riding at 7:30am... your barnmate going at 10:30- can you not take a nap or something before you drive home?

If you are so concerned about the time and getting up all early and stuff can you not stay in a hotel those nights... and if your horses are being stabled there.. won't you have to get up early again to go feed them.?

I'm sorry I'm having a bit of a hard time being too sympathetic to you.. Sure it's a bummer you can't sleep in. Quite frankly with summer weather you should be happy you have an early time - cooler, less bugs etc.

CaitlinandTheBay
Jul. 2, 2011, 01:07 AM
[edit]give her a break she is just expressing a concern not demanding its outrageous that she in the 7:30 spot, its disgusting to me how egotistical and rude equestrians are, share your opinions in a respectful way [edit]

If what you've said here is true, then I have one question:

Pot or Kettle?

GingerJumper
Jul. 2, 2011, 11:19 AM
wow, you got to sleep in if you had to get up at 3!

Not to be completely rude, but seriously...

GET OVER IT!

You've got a fantastic opportunity to go to a BNT's clinic, with your trainer's horse, and all you can think about is how early you have to wake up? What??!

EDIT: I reread this and realized how rude it sounded. I apologize for the rudeness. But seriously... 3am is nothing. I've had to be on the road with horses in tow at thereabouts, and I've pulled into the home barn at around that time, with everything left to unload, no sleep, and no food. Not much sympathy there.

Yance
Jul. 2, 2011, 01:53 PM
Okay... so you're riding with Boyd Martin. The clinic fee is $350. That's $175 per lesson. And you are claiming you can't shell out $39.99 for a hotel, or better yet FREE camp in your trailer?

You sound like a spoiled brat because:
* You can't wake up at 4am, hop into the car and go ride with an Olympic rider.
* You "have no money," but have a truck and trailer and horse... and $350+ to go ride with Boyd. (Plus gas... plus...)
* "My mommy is sick and my daddy can't drive and I hate driving when I'm tired... blahhhh."

Somebody call Whine-One-One.

SaveTheOtters
Jul. 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
Its incredible how deliberately rude, mean, nasty, and snarky some of these responses are.
she asked if she was rightfully angry, the only response need was no, you're not rightfully angry.
and all i see are post after post attacking the OP.
i agree with some of the things said or suggested, i agree that the OP is not entitled to have her time changed the organizer didn't wasn't informed about her time preference, but there is a right and a wrong way to say something.

Fluffie
Jul. 2, 2011, 02:03 PM
Would there be any way to split a hotel room, perhaps with the other rider from the same barn? Make it a "fun" weekend kind of thing?

Tamara in TN
Jul. 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
Do we know that these entries were received together?
Honestly, I'd get myself there the night before if I did't want to be up driving there at 0 dark thirty.

yeah...I suck at night driving and since getting hurt years ago,any driving distance over about 3 hours is a group effort ;) so motels are just part of the budget.

To the OP :it stinks that you can't swap with someone but sometimes things are the way things are.


Tamara

Highflyer
Jul. 2, 2011, 02:23 PM
I'm pretty sure the clinic is over by now anyway.

Carolinadreamin'
Jul. 2, 2011, 02:31 PM
Too bad the OP didn't provide an update, considering it looks like the organizer did accomodate her after all.

Copied from another thread:



I refused to respond to your thread last week about your scheduling plight for Boyd's clinic.

During the clinic, I was looking for you. I noticed in the schedule that the organizer had rescheduled your cross country ride to Wednesday afternoon instead of the original 7:30, which put six in the group. I hope you brought her a bottle of wine!

Still, I held my tongue, both to you and to the organizer regarding the nature and especially the tone of your thread.

Did you watch any of the other lessons? You should have been front and center, notebook in hand, helping to set fences when you were not riding. You managed to be on your horse by 8:45 on Sunday morning when we had to scramble to accommodate the compressed schedule, but didn't stick around to watch the final cross country group.

An out of town clinic is wonderful in that you can devote your entire weekend to the learning process...if you're willing to put the time in. You can learn as much watching as you can riding. And clinics are NOT competitions.

If you come to this forum asking for feedback, please consider what posters are sharing with you. Do you see a common theme emerging? Just about everyone is offering the same message, but it's not one you like or want to accept.

The eventing world is smaller than you may think. Take a deep breath before you vent.

MyssMyst
Jul. 2, 2011, 06:54 PM
Looking at your other thread, you really seem like a whiny brat. Get. A. Grip. I would have been on that horse at 5 am if it meant I got to ride with Boyd Martin. Hell, I'd do that just for normal lessons. You really don't get it, do you? Natural talent is only part of the equation. Willingness to work your butt off is another part. Attitude is 90% of it, and you fail miserably in that area. I don't care if you are the most talented and hard-working rider the world has ever seen, you can't afford to burn bridges. If I were a trainer, I would not want your attitude in my barn where I have to deal with it, and I especially would not want it representing me at a show. You have a lot of maturing to do.

Tamara in TN
Jul. 2, 2011, 06:55 PM
Too bad the OP didn't provide an update, considering it looks like the organizer did accomodate her after all.

Copied from another thread:

it is actually in her blog.

Tamara