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VAevent
Jun. 24, 2011, 04:14 PM
Can any one tell me about BN at Surefire? I can't find photos/videos anywhere. Can you compare it to Rubicon? Is it a "tough" BN course?

riverpup
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:38 AM
Good Morning Chicken,:winkgrin:

(ha ha) My friend went a walked the course yesterday and said that we are going to have a lot of fun tomorrow. She did mention that there is more terrain than Rubicon and that the water is that crazy aqua color and that there is an A-B combination of a couple of painted white logs.

Dont know if that helps, hope you have a great ride!

LisaB
Jun. 25, 2011, 08:57 PM
Surefire always rides well. Don't sweat it. Oh yeah, it's June in VA, then just don't worry about it. Breath and have a great ride.

yellowbritches
Jun. 25, 2011, 09:02 PM
You'll be fine! I didn't see this year's course, but it is fun, straightforward, and inviting. There terrain is a good bit more than Rubicon (Surefire is very hilly), but I don't find it makes much difference at BN and N there. The white logs always ride fine if you take your time and get straight, and the water is usually no big deal.

snoopy
Jun. 26, 2011, 03:39 AM
Is it a "tough" BN course?


It's BN...

VicariousRider
Jun. 26, 2011, 11:02 AM
It's BN...

Yikes...

It's all relative, you know. My trainer, a 3* rider, says there have been times where she's been more nervous about BN on a greeny than advanced on her seasoned UL horse.

Best of luck today, VAevent!! I have shared your nerves, even at lowly beginner novice.

B Street Tango
Jun. 26, 2011, 11:51 AM
It's BN...

I'll admit I'm having a bad so may be over reacting, but don't be so insensitive and dismissive! Not everyone has to jump big to be nervous or ask for some feedback on a course or a little encouragement. Was it really necessary to post that response? You're so helpful. NOT. Turdlick.

VAevent, not sure if bn ran yesterday or today but the weather is gorgeous and I'll bet the course is, too! Have fun and let us know how it went!

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 26, 2011, 12:37 PM
I'll admit I'm having a bad so may be over reacting, but don't be so insensitive and dismissive! Not everyone has to jump big to be nervous or ask for some feedback on a course or a little encouragement.


Encouragement yes...but I understand Snoppy's sentiment. BN is an introduction. The courses honestly do not vary that much--so there really isn't such thing as an easy or tough BN.

You can be nervous about competing in it for sure....but it isn't as if a BN at Rubicon is going to be substantially different and ask different questions from the BN at Waredaca or Surefire. You can absolutely be nervous about them....and need encouragement....but people should not be obsessing about a particular course at this level. They will all be about the same--and thus you can be nervous no matter where you are competiting:) They need to trust in their preparation....and obsess about their riding not the particular course;)

Good luck OP--I'm sure you did just fine!

enjoytheride
Jun. 26, 2011, 01:37 PM
As someone struggling to move up to BN (see previous whiny thread) I can tell you there is a huge difference in BN to us chicken riders.

BN is a huge variation, both in terrain, complexity, and size. BN at some venues can mean 2' 3" on XC with some 2' fences, no water, no ditch, no bank, flat terrain. Or all the fences can be set at max height and width.

A ditch can mean a 12 inch wide dip in the ground or a max width ditch. Water can mean a puddle or a major complex.

You can have a bank up, a bank down, both, or none.

Stadium can be 2' - 2' 6" with one lonely oxer, no combination, and plain rails or it can have a brick wall, an aquaduct, and mostly wide oxers.

Experience and schooling help when you meet the more complex BN but it's nice to know in advance.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 26, 2011, 01:55 PM
BN is a huge variation, both in terrain, complexity, and size. BN at some venues can mean 2' 3" on XC with some 2' fences, no water, no ditch, no bank, flat terrain. Or all the fences can be set at max height and width.



Perhaps they are different in your area but not in this Area---they are all very similar. All will have water, a small ditch and most have a small bank. All will have some degree of terrain.

I've never seen them with 2' fences (they are usually close to max specs)....most around here are just a small step below novice. And most riders need to stop over analyzing it and making it more complex than it is (one of my problems too).

There may be a difference in starter trials....but the recognized events are all similar.

JP60
Jun. 26, 2011, 04:18 PM
Encouragement yes...but I understand Snoppy's sentiment. BN is an introduction. The courses honestly do not vary that much--so there really isn't such thing as an easy or tough BN.


Really? You really believe that? So wonderfully dismissive of those who are starting out (young or old) and learning how to ride these "simple" courses. Just when I think this sport is about community and helping others I see these kind of comments. You must ride 4*s blindfolded with no stirrups, saddle, or bridle you are that good. Sadly, this lowly rider is not, so he see BN as a great goal to work on, each course has its own challenges, and would ask the same type of question, hoping for insight better then "they're all the same"

I do hope VAEvent rode it well and had fun.,

yellowbritches
Jun. 26, 2011, 04:29 PM
Nice how you take a snippet from bnfe's post and take it basically completely out of context. Her entire post was to basically encourage the OP that she's not going to get surprised by something out of the ordinary...most BN courses are going to have very similar questions, so there will be no big surprises. I thought that what she said was very thoughtful and encouraging and dead accurate.

snoopy's response came off harsh, but I, too understand the sentiment. At this level, there really shouldn't BE any signifigant difference from one BN course to another...and, around here, that's pretty much the case! :yes:

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 26, 2011, 04:36 PM
Really? You really believe that? So wonderfully dismissive of those who are starting out (young or old) and learning how to ride these "simple" courses. Just when I think this sport is about community and helping others I see these kind of comments. You must ride 4*s blindfolded with no stirrups, saddle, or bridle you are that good. Sadly, this lowly rider is not, so he see BN as a great goal to work on, each course has its own challenges, and would ask the same type of question, hoping for insight better then "they're all the same"

I do hope VAEvent rode it well and had fun.,

I wasn't being dismissive. YB got my point. There IS NOT a tougher BN...they will all be the same level of toughness.... That was my point.

This is the same issue if you are looking at novice or training. People need to stop focusing on is it a move up course or tough course etc. Most of these courses at rec. events will be substantially similar if you stop focusing on the minutia.

You ride them the same.....and if you go into it with a positive "can do" attitude you are more likely going to have a positive experience.

You prepare for the specs of the level (over prepare if you are nervous)...then obsess about whether you are prepared;). Not about the specific course.

yellowbritches
Jun. 26, 2011, 05:03 PM
You prepare for the specs of the level (over prepare if you are nervous)...then obsess about whether you are prepared;). Not about the specific course.
Well said! I am referring all questions regarding courses of any level to this quote from now on. :yes:

B Street Tango
Jun. 26, 2011, 05:46 PM
I think the fact that the title of the thread is "call me a chicken" is VAevents way of acknowledging that it's only BN but still wanted some feedback on the course.

And responding w "It's BN..." was unecessary and unhelpful. Why make someone feel belittled for asking a question? For those that haven't run that many BN courses, I think there are differences. Are there huge differences? No, but more noticeable to some than others.

I should probably stop here as I'm not sure I'm in the best frame of mind right now...

VAevent
Jun. 26, 2011, 06:06 PM
For the responses -- all of them.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 26, 2011, 06:10 PM
I think the fact that the title of the thread is "call me a chicken" is VAevents way of acknowledging that it's only BN but still wanted some feedback on the course.



I have a lot of friends that are chicken. Good riders...better than they think they are...but big self admitted chickens:). What they typically need...is to NOT focus on the course. Not make things more complicated then they need to be. You walk the course the day of the event or before...and make a more specific plan (such as how to ride to bright blue water). But when they ask this sort of question (the night before the event)....what they typically need is a friendly slap and reminder to just ride. To stop obsessing and freaking themselves out.

I'm a chicken too...just at a different level (and not even a high level)--so I really do understand. And trust me...I've had this said to me before and gotten the friendly slap and told to just ride---actually by some pretty BNT both on course walks when I started freaking out (turning pale and eyes getting big) and in the warm up ring when things were heading south. Some of the best things ever said to me...snaps me out of the spiral of freaking out. What I never need...and neither do the people that I know who are chicken...is to have people feed our insecurities by saying "yeah it looks super freaking hard...that fence is HUGE". And we all spiral down in a freak out fest:lol: And trust me...I've walked a BN and N and had my eyes get big and start freaking out because of the greenie horse I was sitting on and wondering if I would still be sitting on by the end of the course! I've had to give the talk to myself and the big relief after jumping the initial scary fences (that looked friggen huge on foot) and realizing that we will be just fine.

Riding isn't so complicated (really it is simple)---but simple doesn't mean easy;) and one of the hardest things can be putting yourself into the right mindset.

Ishi
Jun. 26, 2011, 06:11 PM
Bad day or not, I completely agree with B Street.

BTW, hubby rode a client horse there today at BN. The water was very tough for many at that level. I would call it tougher then the BN water at the other HTs this client's horse had gone BN this year, as it was dyed blue, they come down the hill to it, and look right at the vendors/food/all the people watching. Was it with in specs? Absolutely. Was the water tough on horses/riders all weekend, at all levels? Yup, lots of stops and falls. And I watched 3 in a row stop at BN today waiting to see DH come by~who didn't have issue there(nor did I yesterday) in case anyone thought I was jaded.

BEST BN horse I saw of the day was the very last one to go, I guess it was her first horse trial, she went clean, Brian was getting everyone to cheer for her. It was awesome, and I was totally clapping for her as she jumped her last fence at her first HT. Good for her and I hope she had a great event and wants to keep on eventing.

VAevent, hope you did well and had fun today!!!

JP60
Jun. 27, 2011, 07:33 AM
I wasn't being dismissive. YB got my point. There IS NOT a tougher BN...they will all be the same level of toughness.... That was my point.

Then why do I see threads and questions on this forum regarding whether this venue is "soft" or this venue is maxed for a level up. You passed over my thought that for new riders, riders who have not competed horses up the ladder and starting with green horses again, new riders still see differences and when they ask, it is a legitimate question. To toss it away with a "Its BN" is harsh and is that a position to defend?



You ride them the same.....and if you go into it with a positive "can do" attitude you are more likely going to have a positive experience.

In this I agree 100%. This is the approach I have with my training. What I feel is that people with tons of experience need to consider that there are people going out for the first time on BN, or even tadpole with some varying degree of confidence. They may be young, then may be old, but the one thing they have in common is that this is still new. Yes, we need to ride positive, even bold, but a new rider will not have experience which is why they ask.

I've been around the block in life. I've learned how to sail, I've learned how to fly, and now riding. Each time I started it was new, different scary..unknown. Thank goodness I did not have people telling me from there years of experience, "its just this or that". The best helped me by providing what was needed to do the task, teaching at the same time. Had I knowledge and experience on that course I might have said "Try to set up for this, check the lighting on that, but most of all ride the course and have fun. You can do it".

The point is moot, its over for her and I would love to know how she did!

snoopy
Jun. 27, 2011, 07:53 AM
I am glad to see that some here understood the sentiment in my previous post. It was in no way meant to be dismissive. BN is an introduction to the sport....at its very basics. Get your very basics sorted and any BN course should not cause you to lose sleep. There should be very little. if any, variation from one BN course to the next. BUT I do understand that as the levels get lower that CD's tend to play around with spec and questions, which is criminal in my book.
Anyone entered in BN should not feel as if they need to seek advice whether or not it is a "tough" BN or an "easy" BN. BN should be very "easy" by nature of what it is designed to do....and most importantly, the experience you come away with.

snoopy
Jun. 27, 2011, 07:55 AM
Encouragement yes...but I understand Snoppy's sentiment. BN is an introduction. The courses honestly do not vary that much--so there really isn't such thing as an easy or tough BN.

You can be nervous about competing in it for sure....but it isn't as if a BN at Rubicon is going to be substantially different and ask different questions from the BN at Waredaca or Surefire. You can absolutely be nervous about them....and need encouragement....but people should not be obsessing about a particular course at this level. They will all be about the same--and thus you can be nervous no matter where you are competiting:) They need to trust in their preparation....and obsess about their riding not the particular course;)

Good luck OP--I'm sure you did just fine!




As usual, you said it better then I could and I very much agree with what you have posted.

snoopy
Jun. 27, 2011, 07:58 AM
Nice how you take a snippet from bnfe's post and take it basically completely out of context. Her entire post was to basically encourage the OP that she's not going to get surprised by something out of the ordinary...most BN courses are going to have very similar questions, so there will be no big surprises. I thought that what she said was very thoughtful and encouraging and dead accurate.

snoopy's response came off harsh, but I, too understand the sentiment. At this level, there really shouldn't BE any signifigant difference from one BN course to another...and, around here, that's pretty much the case! :yes:


:yes:

As I said, it was not meant to be harsh but rather meant do not get hung up on "problems" as there should not be any should your basics be secure. I will say it again...

It is BN

(go out and have fun)!!!!