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hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:28 PM
Not to start a fight here, but I have come to notice that the dressage community seems a bit more sensitive to heat than the H/J community- at least from the prospective of seeing what they wear at shows and hearing many of the complaints about how hot helmets are.

Just this last weekend I was showing at a recognized dressage show (indoors) where the outside temps ranged from 80 to mid 90s during the days. People were already asking to waive coats at 8:30 in the am, before it was even remotely hot. I have also noticed that almost all of the show shirts that people wear in dressage under their coats are short sleeved, something very, very rarely seen in H/J land (everyone wears long sleeves under their coats). I also have noticed that there seem to be more technical fabrics and cooling devices (like freezable stock ties) marketed towards dressage riders vs. H/J riders.

So what is the reason for this? The only thing I could really think of is that there are typically more adult riders (40+ years old) in dressage rather than H/J. Or is it that dressage riders are more "practical" and less into the "fashion" side of showing?

I guess I was just surprised to see people opting not to wear coats at a big show. I totally expect that at a schooling show (regardless of H/J or dressage) but didn't think that would happen at a recognized show held indoors. Thoughts?

Velvet
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:29 PM
Oh, quit trying to stir up more poo today, would ya?

(One comment though, just YOU try and wear a BLACK coat in the blister heat, in unrelenting sun and then come and talk to us. Seriously, hunters coats are SO much better with the color, etc. Makes a huge difference.)

Anyway, no more feeding trolls for me. I'm done.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:32 PM
Oh, quit trying to stir up more poo today, would ya?

I really was not trying to be snarky... hence why I threw out my own reasonable ideas as to why there was a difference but seeing as I am new to the dressage community, I was just wondering what others thought.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:34 PM
(One comment though, just YOU try and wear a BLACK coat in the blister heat, in unrelenting sun and then come and talk to us. Seriously, hunters coats are SO much better with the color, etc. Makes a huge difference.)

Anyway, no more feeding trolls for me. I'm done.

I have never felt any difference between a black coat and a navy coat. Are dressage coats heavier? Serious question.

dwblover
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:38 PM
This is the silliest post I've seen on COTH in quite a while. How about just riding at the shows and not worrying about what everyone else is doing? Yeesh. If it's hot and coats are waived, mine is coming off. It's black and it makes me very uncomfortable in the blazing sun, end of story.

InWhyCee Redux
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:46 PM
Seriously, how many show H/J in a white or light tan khaki coat? And helmets are helmets, unless you're doing PSG or above, you're wearing one....

OP, I do not get the impression that you are trolling, no more than someone asking if there's more money in hunters than dressage. ;) Maybe retailers just see the dressage market as more style-conscious and/or mature and thus more likely to buy tech fabrics and et cetera.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:47 PM
This is the silliest post I've seen on COTH in quite a while. How about just riding at the shows and not worrying about what everyone else is doing? Yeesh. If it's hot and coats are waived, mine is coming off. It's black and it makes me very uncomfortable in the blazing sun, end of story.

Thanks, guys.

Why did I ask? Because it was an honest question after noticing a big difference in trends of materials and practices at shows. I also had a client ask me and I thought I would get everyone else's say in it.

carolprudm
Jun. 20, 2011, 05:59 PM
A dressage test is usually longer than the average hunter round

AllWeatherGal
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:03 PM
I have never felt any difference between a black coat and a navy coat. Are dressage coats heavier? Serious question.

Yes, my dressage coat is heavier/hotter than the hunter jacket I used (instead) for hot summer days. And the tails of dressage shadbellies are lined with leather so they hang, which makes them much heavier than those worn in hunter classics.

I think there's a basic difference in expectations between dressage riders (either they love the "uniform" or hate it) and hunters (no clue about jumpers), who are willing to bring 4 coats and 6 shirts to a weekend show. If you sweat in the first set, just move on ... most dressage riders I know only have one coat and once it's sweat-soaked have to put it back on, if coats aren't waived.

Hunters and jumpers spend most of the warmup and the competition at a nice canter or hand-gallop ... if there's a breeze you'll catch it. Dressage, on the other hand, runs the gamut. And honestly? There never seems to be a breeze until it's time to do a halt and RB by the plastic bag lying benignly in the grass ;)

Liz
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:08 PM
Yes, they wave coats because most of us Dressage riders are 40+ adult riders. Truth is we are all going through menopause and having heat flashes.

Are you kidding me, this has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. Jumper riders routinely show in short sleeve polo shirts with no jacket. However, just like dressage riders, in the big Prix classes, even if it is hot they wear jackets. At the lower levels polo or short sleeves are fine.

The question is what is up with the hunter riders always wearing jackets. When there is a heat index of 107 outside....wearing a jacket is just stupid.

ambar
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:10 PM
Hunters and jumpers spend most of the warmup and the competition at a nice canter or hand-gallop ... if there's a breeze you'll catch it. Dressage, on the other hand, runs the gamut.

That's what I was thinking. :D

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:11 PM
Yes, my dressage coat is heavier/hotter than the hunter jacket I used (instead) for hot summer days. And the tails of dressage shadbellies are lined with leather so they hang, which makes them much heavier than those worn in hunter classics.

I think there's a basic difference in expectations between dressage riders (either they love the "uniform" or hate it) and hunters (no clue about jumpers), who are willing to bring 4 coats and 6 shirts to a weekend show. If you sweat in the first set, just move on ... most dressage riders I know only have one coat and once it's sweat-soaked have to put it back on, if coats aren't waived.

Hunters and jumpers spend most of the warmup and the competition at a nice canter or hand-gallop ... if there's a breeze you'll catch it. Dressage, on the other hand, runs the gamut. And honestly? There never seems to be a breeze until it's time to do a halt and RB by the plastic bag lying benignly in the grass ;)

Thank you!! That makes perfect sense about the dressage coats having a heavier lining and would therefore be hotter. And your right about dressage riders spending more time at the trot than the canter (didn't really think about that until you said it).

cranky
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:23 PM
Well, I am an eventer and I can tell you that I sweat FAR more in my dressage lessons than I do in my jumping lessons.

4wdNstraight
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:27 PM
I have 2 dressage coats-one is Euro Star, the other Pikeur and have 3 coats for H/J, and the H/J coats are much thinner, and more comfortable! My favorite dressage coat is a navy Pikeur, and my only thought is it must be much cooler over there! I would love a coat that looked like that one in a thinner material! I prefer to show in long sleeves as it keeps the sun off my arms, but again my dressage shirts are heavier weight than my H/J ones. I have taken to wearing the H/J ones with a pretty tie over it, but if they waive coats I prefer the way the dressage ones look (white cuffs w/ white stock pastel shirt). The helmet thing isn't nearly as brutal as the heavy weight coat! I am old school and am prone to wearing a coat unless it is ridiculously hot (95+).

DutchDressageQueen
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:35 PM
AllWeatherGal is right.

I personally, being used to the cold and freezing weather in Holland think it is sometimes close to unbearable at a show, in the arena, with the sun shining directly down on it. ( 100+ degrees Fahrenheit) but I still wear my coat, even when they are waived! ( i've never once showed without my jacket)

I think : just suck it up and ride!

AllWeatherGal
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:39 PM
Well, I am an eventer and I can tell you that I sweat FAR more in my dressage lessons than I do in my jumping lessons.

I was just thinking that I bet the horses do, too.

I mean, think about the sweat on a horse after a GP dressage test and the sweat on a horse after an equivalent jumper round (or more ... if a jumper round is around 2 minutes and a GP test is what ... I was thinking 12-15 minutes, but all the youtube videos seem to be 7 minutes!).

Bugs-n-Frodo
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:01 PM
hntrjmprpro45, have you ever ridden dressage 2nd level or above? (I am not be snarky, serious question.)

I have ridden hunters and jumped up to 4', shown only to 3' and I can tell you, dressage is much harder work (at least for me it is) than hunters were, hands down. I ride 5-6 days a week, it is not like I am out of shape.

catosis
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:05 PM
I am not 40 years old, my body just has a really hard time thermoregulating itself :yes:! Hence, if I am not properly hydrated/cooling myself down after a lesson, I will pass out.

kinnip
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:11 PM
Dressage is a lot like yoga or pilates in the way it works the body. You sweat in places you were really hoping you didn't have glands. Moreover, it's difficult to maintain the kind of focus and relaxation you need for good dressage when you're physically uncomfortable.
I suspect the age factor has something to do with it, too. The reality is that an uncomfortable 40 y.o. woman is far more prone to communicate her discomfort to the show staff than a young rider who's striving to please at all costs.

Lost_at_C
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:17 PM
Maybe dressage riders are more willing to sacrifice fashion for the sake of riding as well as they possibly can. :yes:

Of all the differences one could find between dressage competitions and hunters, and this is what we're focusing on? Okaaay.

fish
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:25 PM
I've been doing both hunters and dressage for decades, and hate the coats, ties, chokers... wherever I am. All the equestrian disciplines are supposed to be athletic endeavors for the riders as well as the horses. I think it's long overdue for us to start dressing for the expectation of sweat. Might even add some credibility to our claims to being a sport.

Suck it up and bear with the consequences of doing things that are plain stupid from a health standpoint just doesn't cut it with me.

wcporter
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:27 PM
There never seems to be a breeze until it's time to do a halt and RB by the plastic bag lying benignly in the grass ;)

Teehehe :lol:

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:30 PM
hntrjmprpro45, have you ever ridden dressage 2nd level or above? (I am not be snarky, serious question.)

I have ridden hunters and jumped up to 4', shown only to 3' and I can tell you, dressage is much harder work (at least for me it is) than hunters were, hands down. I ride 5-6 days a week, it is not like I am out of shape.

Don't worry, that question doesn't offend me at all. I actually have a pretty decent training background in dressage- I started out riding under a dressage trainer and have done clinics with some BNT. I have schooled a decent number of horses (usually my upper level jumpers) through 4th.

However, since I spend all my time on the H/J circuit as a trainer and instructor, I have never really made the time to show dressage until this year. I have just recently started to take some of my 4 and 5 year old horses to show them in training and 1st to put some mileage on them before they move into the hunter/jumpers (it is also a nice selling point to have some good dressage scores too).

So I am very much "new" to dressage SHOWING but not at all new to the training aspects of it, hence where my questions have come from.

Elegante E
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:41 PM
Remember that dressage is done with contact that is supposed to recycle the horse's energy. In studies, it's said that each rein weighs 20lbs (it's not dead weight so does feel much lighter). So think about it, riding english is like working out on a stair climber, think posting trot, but for dressage riders it's stair climbing with weights. The rider is also not just balancing herself atop the horse but helping the horse balance itself using her core muscles constantly to adjust. It's just more work. And god help us if the horse is heavy in the hands! Then the 20lbs becomes 50lbs. That said, if the horse is relaxed and carrying itself, it really isn't an awful workout. But that's not what typically happens at shows. We end up dealing with tense horses who are heavy in the contact which forces us to try and muscle them around.

I do think dressage coats are insanely heavy and stock ties were invented by satan, or the brittish, can't remember exactly.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:44 PM
I do think dressage coats are insanely heavy and stock ties were invented by satan, or the brittish, can't remember exactly.

Best quote!

Gestalt
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:06 PM
OP, I get what you're asking, I've seen it and lived it. :) When younger I wasn't that affected by heat. Now I'm older (and heavier) and I get hot. The dressage coats are a heavier material, but if you're wearing a lighter weight jacket and a long sleeve shirt, isn't that the same?

I don't buy the theory of dressage riders working harder than hunter riders. At the lower levels it really isn't that physically different. I suspect the dressage people just want to pretend it is though.

Popcorn, get your popcorn.....

Bugs-n-Frodo
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:24 PM
Gestalt, when I ring out the sweat from my shirt, I'd say it is pretty hard work and that is 2nd level work, which, I realize some would say, is a lower level but that is when collection begins. My trainer, who did jumpers for a long time, has even said that she could ride 5 jumpers for every one dressage horse. This girl is FIT, and I mean FIT right down to having a personal trainer in a gym everyday. Just saying.

DutchDressageQueen
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:29 PM
Gestalt, when I ring out the sweat from my shirt, I'd say it is pretty hard work and that is 2nd level work, which, I realize some would say, is a lower level but that is when collection begins. My trainer, who did jumpers for a long time, has even said that she could ride 5 jumpers for every one dressage horse. This girl is FIT, and I mean FIT right down to having a personal trainer in a gym everyday. Just saying.

I agree, even at second level, it is hard work! I ride several horses a day, 5 days a week, and after I have ridden the second horse my shirt is drenched as well as my breeches! I ride different horses of different levels. up to around 4-5 horses a day, in the near 100 degree ( or more) weather.

InWhyCee Redux
Jun. 20, 2011, 09:38 PM
Yes, they wave coats because most of us Dressage riders are 40+ adult riders. Truth is we are all going through menopause and having heat flashes.

Are you kidding me, this has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. Jumper riders routinely show in short sleeve polo shirts with no jacket. However, just like dressage riders, in the big Prix classes, even if it is hot they wear jackets. At the lower levels polo or short sleeves are fine.

The question is what is up with the hunter riders always wearing jackets. When there is a heat index of 107 outside....wearing a jacket is just stupid.

I grew up doing 4-H and breed shows. In the '80s. Never, ever, once was my jacket waived. Kids today are so lucky! :cool:

SaddleFitterVA
Jun. 20, 2011, 10:46 PM
On the other hand, I see a lot of dressage riders here opting to WEAR the coats when it is 100 degrees with 90% humidity.

I just bought a new coat. It is a light weight fabric and I am going to a show this weekend. I tend to jump on the option to skip the coat if allowed, but maybe this coat will make a difference. I've also gotten a couple of lighter shirts.

I have a couple of lighter colored hunt coats, and I do sometimes wear those in the dressage ring.

I love jumper shows for the polo option.

ArabDiva
Jun. 20, 2011, 11:06 PM
I'm with the OP. I used to be a saddleseat rider (arabs) before switching over to Dressage...I have shown outdoors, in 100 degree heat, in a 3-piece suit (coat reaching to my knees!). And IMO, a hot saddleseat horse is just as complicated a ride as a 2nd level dressage horse.

When I started dressage, I was confused by all of the people whining about hot jackets. Jackets are just what people wear to show, like dancers wear dance costumes. End of story. Suck it up and ride.

Lateralwork
Jun. 21, 2011, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Elegante E View Post
I do think dressage coats are insanely heavy and stock ties were invented by satan, or the brittish, can't remember exactly.
Best quote!


Yes, stock ties and panty hose, both inventions of the devil. Fortunately, the rules do not require a stock tie until after 4th level.

Pely
Jun. 22, 2011, 09:10 AM
Oh really, a hunter round takes like one minute, and usually the time in the warm-up ring is much shorter than in the dressage warm-up. The average dressage test is 5 minutes of intense concentration. No comparison. and even though the hack class is longer, there is no comparison.

I have worked just as hard in training level on a young green horse as I have in the Grand Prix.

The biggest question is: why is this such a big deal ?

Elegante E
Jun. 22, 2011, 09:54 AM
Just curious, but how long are hunter/jumpers usually on their horses for one day of showing? How many classes do they show in per day?

Rhiannonjk
Jun. 22, 2011, 09:58 AM
It was my understanding that in Saddleseat, part of the judging in some classes is based on the rider's presentation or dress. And it is my understanding that in Hunters, there is a good bit of subjectivity allowed by the judge, and dress can play a part in the judging.

In Dressage, there is far far less impact on the dress in the way the rider is scored. As long as the rider is neat and respectful in their dress, they aren't going to place higher or lower because they aren't wearing a jacket. I imagine this has far more to do with things than the athletic needs of various disciplines.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:14 AM
Just curious, but how long are hunter/jumpers usually on their horses for one day of showing? How many classes do they show in per day?

On average you would be in 3-4 classes over fences and maybe a flat class. H/J classes are shorter than a dressage but you end up spending way more time on the horse due to the rolling schedule (warm up, wait, wait, warm up again, maybe get to do one class, wait, wait... Etc). Being assigned a ride time is by far one of my favorite things about showing dressage- especially for my youngsters. I can be on their backs for the minimum amount needed to warm up, walk into the arena for my test and then hop off.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:18 AM
It was my understanding that in Saddleseat, part of the judging in some classes is based on the rider's presentation or dress. And it is my understanding that in Hunters, there is a good bit of subjectivity allowed by the judge, and dress can play a part in the judging.

In Dressage, there is far far less impact on the dress in the way the rider is scored. As long as the rider is neat and respectful in their dress, they aren't going to place higher or lower because they aren't wearing a jacket. I imagine this has far more to do with things than the athletic needs of various disciplines.

This is what I was thinking too, although some riders I have talked to say Dressage is the most classically formal discipline hence the white breeches, stock ties, dress boots, top hats and tail coats.

Rhiannonjk
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:21 AM
This is what I was thinking too, although some riders I have talked to say Dressage is the most classically formal discipline hence the white breeches, stock ties, dress boots, top hats and tail coats.

Yes - but the "uniform" is by tradition (and regulation), and has no impact on the judging (at least it shouldn't, and in my experience as a scribe, it never does).

mp
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:23 AM
I have worked just as hard in training level on a young green horse as I have in the Grand Prix.

The biggest question is: why is this such a big deal ?

Very interesting. I'm a way latecomer to dressage (from breed show rail classes, no less). And I find riding dressage tests and really working in a lesson to be pretty taxing (but fun). But I really don't have much to compare it to.

And to answer your question -- it isn't.

Rhiannonjk
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:23 AM
In fact, as a scribe, the only time I can remember the judge making any comment - off the record - in regards to a rider's dress was when it was ridiculously hot, coats were not required, the rider had on a jacket, and the judge was concerned that an error in the test was because the rider was over-heating.

Reiter
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:23 AM
It was my understanding that in Saddleseat, part of the judging in some classes is based on the rider's presentation or dress. And it is my understanding that in Hunters, there is a good bit of subjectivity allowed by the judge, and dress can play a part in the judging.

In Dressage, there is far far less impact on the dress in the way the rider is scored. As long as the rider is neat and respectful in their dress, they aren't going to place higher or lower because they aren't wearing a jacket. I imagine this has far more to do with things than the athletic needs of various disciplines.

The voice of reason! :)

jcotton
Jun. 22, 2011, 04:32 PM
Another angle to not fairing well in the heat is, to consider where does the average adult amatuer spend majority of their time --most likely in an air-conditioned office. Not outside when the usual hours of a horseshow are going on. They work their horses in the very early hours of the morning or cool of the evening/night. --Not that any of that exists in Texas from mid-May to October! with humidity, too.
If they do any time in a gym --it is air-conditioned, not heat simulated to riding at a show.

in_the_zone
Jun. 22, 2011, 05:54 PM
I wore a coat once when I didn't have to so I could get some nice pro pix. Boy was I sorry as I passed out right in front of the judge's stand during my free walk. It was only for a moment, but I forgot where I was in my test due to being disoriented and the bell rung when I went off course. Wearing a coat when you need your body to keep cool is STUPID! So we aren't wimps, we're just smarter than you hunter jumpers!

*That last line was a JOKE just in case it got lost in translation.

Emy
Jun. 22, 2011, 10:14 PM
Sitting trot on a big moving dressage horse + show adrenaline pumping + show coat and stock = sweat

In FL this winter my coach gave some dressage lessons to a very successful pro jumper rider who rides 9+ a day and she could only last about 15 mins trying to sit a Second Level horse and had to stop from exhaustion. Canter is much easier to physically ride for long periods, especially when you half post it.

I don’t think it is even a fitness or age issue, last summer I caught a horse at a CDI whose FEI Young Rider fainted off his back from heat exhaustion coming out of the ring on a warm day. She was a fit 20 year old.

mp
Jun. 23, 2011, 10:38 AM
I can't stand it any more.

It's "fare" as in how something turns for someone.

Not "fair" as in the weather, average, unbiased, balls, complexion or the summer event that takes place in your county or state.

Janet
Jun. 23, 2011, 10:58 AM
Another angle to not fairing well in the heat is, to consider where does the average adult amatuer spend majority of their time --most likely in an air-conditioned office.
Yes, but that is just as true of the H/J Adult Amateur.

SillyHorse
Jun. 23, 2011, 01:17 PM
I can't stand it any more.

It's "fare" as in how something turns for someone.

Not "fair" as in the weather, average, unbiased, balls, complexion or the summer event that takes place in your county or state.
Thnak you, thank you, thank you.

Lost_at_C
Jun. 23, 2011, 03:51 PM
Thank you MP!!!!

But anyway, another thought popped into my mind on this topic.... I genuinely understand that many people faint in high temperatures with no other factors needed (I'm one of them). However, I'm wondering if the type of riding done in dressage, i.e., much more engagement of the core abdominal muscles, impedes cooling particularly if done improperly so that breathing is restricted. Of course we should all know how to use our core without restricting our breath, but how many of us really completely do, and can sustain that for several rides in a day? Just a thought, please feel free to debunk my speculation.

hntrjmprpro45
Jun. 23, 2011, 04:07 PM
I can't stand it any more.

It's "fare" as in how something turns for someone.

Not "fair" as in the weather, average, unbiased, balls, complexion or the summer event that takes place in your county or state.

Thanks, it should be fixed in the title now!

ctrline
Jun. 23, 2011, 04:22 PM
Well, I am an eventer and I can tell you that I sweat FAR more in my dressage lessons than I do in my jumping lessons.

What Cranky says....

Dressage, especially 2nd level and above, is hard, sweaty work!

CosMonster
Jun. 23, 2011, 05:52 PM
Thank you MP!!!!

But anyway, another thought popped into my mind on this topic.... I genuinely understand that many people faint in high temperatures with no other factors needed (I'm one of them). However, I'm wondering if the type of riding done in dressage, i.e., much more engagement of the core abdominal muscles, impedes cooling particularly if done improperly so that breathing is restricted. Of course we should all know how to use our core without restricting our breath, but how many of us really completely do, and can sustain that for several rides in a day? Just a thought, please feel free to debunk my speculation.

I don't think the riding itself (if done correctly of course) impedes cooling more than any other exercise does, but I think the breathing thing is dead on. Lots of people don't breathe enough on show day due to nerves and stress, and that can definitely cause problems when heat is added. Of course, that is not a dressage-specific phenomenon.

I show in dressage, h/j, and breed shows and I've never noticed a significant difference except that h/j and breed shows tend to be a lot more fashion conscious. So I guess if dressage riders call for jackets to be waived at lower temperatures and such, it's because they don't care so much about being stylish so comfort takes on more of a priority.

But then there's the other thread where dressage riders all school in full boots, breeches, and polos every day, while at pretty much every h/j barn I've been to I see spaghetti straps and super thin tights with paddock boots or even shorts and chaps, so I am forced to draw the conclusion that it's actually impossible to generalize about heat tolerance across disciplines, especially using only a few anecdotes.

mp
Jun. 23, 2011, 05:57 PM
Thanks, it should be fixed in the title now!

Oh, no. Thank YOU! :)

CatPS
Jun. 23, 2011, 05:57 PM
Don't underestimate the increased lower-body contact that dressage demands. Cooling is ALL about surface area, and dressage riders are IN their saddles with their legs on at all times... compare to a HJ rider who gets to do a lot of nice breezy half-seat! Try popping up out of your saddle into a half seat one hot day, and witness the amazing cooling effect of some nice crotch ventilation ;) (or vice versa, drop your stirrups a couple holes and ride without perching or half-seat and see how much faster you get really REALLY hot :o)

mp
Jun. 23, 2011, 06:06 PM
witness the amazing cooling effect of some nice crotch ventilation ;) (or vice versa, drop your stirrups a couple holes and ride without perching or half-seat and see how much faster you get really REALLY hot :o)

Recently, I've begun working at the trot without stirrups for the first 20 minutes or so, and I'm dripping with sweat when I'm done. I had no idea it was the lack of crotch ventilation that was the culprit. :lol:

enjoytheride
Jun. 23, 2011, 06:08 PM
I event, and I think the suggestion that dressage riders waive coats because they work harder then jumping people is snobby BS.

I think the lengthy rules of dressage allowed for a clause within those rules to waive coats because it is too damn hot to wear one.

I think HJ people wear coats because they rely more heavily on "tradition" and have fewer rules and apparently they forget that we are not living in England or showing in October and seem to enjoy heatstroke.

I think if the HJ people had a rule about coats being waived nobody would wear a coat when it got too hot.

Janet
Jun. 23, 2011, 10:35 PM
I think if the HJ people had a rule about coats being waived nobody would wear a coat when it got too hot.
They do.
HU127.2


When management permits Hunter or Hunter Seat Equitation riders
to ride without jackets, riders must wear traditional, short, or long-sleeved riding shirts
with chokers or ties. Polo shirts and chaps are not permitted except in unjudged warm-up
classes.

SillyHorse
Jun. 24, 2011, 09:00 AM
Oh Janet, there you go again, always with the actual rules. :lol:

enjoytheride
Jun. 24, 2011, 04:42 PM
What does the rule say for dressage and eventing? I think it pertains to an actual heat index?

Reiter
Jun. 25, 2011, 11:31 AM
Up to show management not a number IME!

Lost_at_C
Jun. 25, 2011, 12:39 PM
USEF Dressage Rule:

7. In extreme heat and/or humidity in all classes including FEI classes at National Competitions, management can allow competitors to show without jackets. However, competitors
must wear a regulation hat and solid or nearly solid colored long or short sleeved shirt with collar, without neckwear, and without decoration except as described under .12 below. T-shirts
are not permitted. Members of the Armed Services or police units may wear summer uni-forms.


Nearly identical to H/J in effect.

Fluffie
Jun. 26, 2011, 11:17 PM
Oh really, a hunter round takes like one minute, and usually the time in the warm-up ring is much shorter than in the dressage warm-up.

Just to reply to this and the post following it:

Usually, an over fences round is around two minutes (depending on the size of the ring naturally). A flat class is usually around five minutes. At a schooling/one day show, usually people go in four jumping classes (warm up, two hunter rounds, and eq round) and two flat classes. However, there isn't a limit, and I've done as many as seven to ten (adding in more eq, for example). At multi-day shows, the average is probably three over fences classes and a flat (but that is really hard to say--it really depends on eq) per day.

SO . . . two minutes times four plus ten would be 18 minutes. Warm up time is very difficult to estimate because there are a zillion factors involved, but maybe 15 minutes (I've never timed mine or anyone else's, so I may be waaaay off, and then you have to be aware that the classes may not run together, so more, mini-warm ups are added in there). I guess that makes a total of 32+ minutes. :)

SaddleFitterVA
Jun. 27, 2011, 07:33 AM
As the new owner of a RJ Classics dressage coat in some really light weight wool, I am going to say that I was fine in my coat at a show this weekend. It was also quite pleasant outside, in the mid-80s, not the high 90s.

Between the coat and the shirt, I was not overheating in the slightest.

http://www.rjclassics.com/dyn_prod.php?p=P8311&k=149920

Hope that link works. If not, it is the "Ladies Sterling Collection Dressage Coat - Black Stretch/Silver Piping".

Janet
Jun. 27, 2011, 09:00 AM
What does the rule say for dressage and eventing? I think it pertains to an actual heat index?
Eventing rules say

EV114.8. ... when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one day
- Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the test in
progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and gloves - as
applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without
neckwear, of a conservative color, neatly tucked into riding breeches.

EV114.10. EXTREME WEATHER. At temperatures above 85°F, a heat index above 85°, or at the
discretion of the Ground Jury or the Organizer, competitors will be permitted to compete
without jackets, in the dressage and/or jumping tests. In such cases, competitors must wear
either a long or short sleeved shirt of conservative color without neckwear; members of the
armed forces and police units may ride in their summer uniforms. In inclement weather
competitors may wear a windbreaker jacket or rain coat over their clothing; their number
must be visible.

The biggest difference between hunters and dressage/eventing, is that hunters MUST wear neckwear even when jackets are waived, but in Dressage/Eventing, if you are not wearing ajacket you MUST NOT wear neckwear.

Rhiannonjk
Jun. 27, 2011, 09:05 AM
well, that and the fact that you are judged, in some cases, on overall appearance compared to your competitors in the hunter arena.

Pennywell Bay
Jun. 27, 2011, 09:15 AM
On a bit of a side-note. I found that I handle the heat much better (esp on the weekends) when I
1. Keep my house a touch warmer than the office and stores keep their temps
2. Am outside first thing in the AM ( my body seems to acclimate throughout the day) Easier for me than some since I keep them at home
3. ***Stay super hydrated ***

I know this does not help everyone but just kind of pondering this thread....

whitewolfe001
Jul. 6, 2011, 11:50 PM
I used to be a total coat nazi. No matter how hot it was, I figured I could wear the coat for five minutes, and did. ( Dammit I paid to be in this show and my pictures are going to look proper.) Even if everyone else took theirs off, mine was on.

Now, at 30-something years of age... all I care about is not fainting.

ThreeFigs
Jul. 7, 2011, 12:05 AM
Heeheee! Wait till you're 50-something!

Delbert Paesano
Jul. 8, 2011, 07:09 PM
I did hunters and jumpers on the A circuit for years. I am now riding dressage and have shown through PSG. I too have noticed that dressage riders don't appear as resilient as the hunters/jumpers. I always show in a coat and other people from my barn are always shocked that I show in a coat even if coats are waived. Obviously, in the PSG you have to wear your shadbelly so there really isn't an option there.
However, I work way harder preparing for a dressage test than I did preparing for a hunter or jumper trip.

I also clean and tie up my bridle in a figure 8 after every ride, and I also wear a hairnet under my helmet, everyday! The people at my barn just call me "the hunter girl" and laugh.

I just think the two worlds are totally different and whatever discipline you are raised in sticks with you.

enjoytheride
Jul. 9, 2011, 05:05 PM
Specifically what classes are you judged on overall appearance? Clothing besides being neat and presentable is not part of hunter judging unless you're doing an appointments class.

Janet
Jul. 9, 2011, 06:54 PM
Specifically what classes are you judged on overall appearance? Clothing besides being neat and presentable is not part of hunter judging unless you're doing an appointments class. Or side saddle.

carolprudm
Jul. 10, 2011, 07:34 AM
Heeheee! Wait till you're 50-something!

Or 62!

My CoolMedics vest arrived Friday and I'm going to give it a try today. Forecast high is 92 but will probably be over 100 heat index

SaddleFitterVA
Jul. 10, 2011, 08:46 AM
Wow, I had not realized that the waive coats option kicked in at 85F.

Quick question for Janet, is that a true OR, so if it is over 85F coats are optional, regardless of what show management has announced? Or does it have to be officially announced?

It seems that around here, they don't waive coats until it is in the 90s.

Equibrit
Jul. 10, 2011, 09:08 AM
The 85deg option is for eventing.

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2010/08-DR.pdf
"DR120.7. In extreme heat and/or humidity in all classes including FEI classes at National Competitions, management can allow competitors to show without jackets. However, competitors must wear a regulation hat and solid or nearly solid colored long or short sleeved shirt with collar, without neckwear, and without decoration except as described under .12 below. Tshirts are not permitted. Members of the Armed Services or police units may wear summer uniforms. BOD 1/17/10 Effective immediately"

yaya
Jul. 10, 2011, 11:25 AM
Obviously, in the PSG you have to wear your shadbelly so there really isn't an option there.

No, you can remove your coat for FEI level tests as well, as long as it isn't a CDI.

Heat index here today will be 108. I almost passed out after my lesson yesterday. Had to hose myself down before I could hose off my horse.

I never feel it until I actually get off, though, so I get myself in trouble heat-wise a lot.

So when coats are waived, my coat is GONE, even at PSG. Hell, the tails are lined with leather! Who wants that when it's 95 degrees with 95% humidity?

HenryisBlaisin'
Jul. 10, 2011, 11:32 AM
Interesting. I never much thought about it in those terms, but from personal experience...when I go to a dressage schooling show and polos are allowed, I wear a polo. When I go to a hunter schooling show and polos are allowed, I wear a ratcatcher and coat. I don't really know why I think differently for the two, but there it is.

As for the amount of work on my part...I get a much more strenuous workout from a dressage session than O/F. It's been nasty hot around here. Yesterday I schooled dressage for maybe a half hour and was literally dripping with sweat. I could feel it rolling down my back and face. My horse was soaked from the neck down. The previous ride was a cross-country school (I don't event but it's great for my horse) on a hotter day and neither of us was as wet or as tired afterward.

mzm farm
Jul. 10, 2011, 11:46 AM
I find this a very humorous and truthful thread.
"most dressage riders are older and likely suffering hot flashes"
"most dressage riders are mature and likely to communicate their discomfort to show management"

I am quite a bit younger then the perceived "average" age, and I gotta tell you, it is hard to relax while your brain melts. My body also came up with a way to clear things up for me - I start gushing blood from my nose - red speckled shirt and tie are hardly called for in the show ring. Plain white shirt/tie seem much better.

While we are requesting to waive the hot coats, can we also address the super practical and flattering tight white pants? Who came up with that?!

Wishing you all comfortable show temps:yes:

carolprudm
Jul. 10, 2011, 01:05 PM
I just came in from doing a couple of hours of barn chores wearing my new CoolMedics vest. I kept thinking this isn't a fair test, I was pretty comfortable so it couldn't be that hot.

Well it's certainly been hotter,but it's 90 with a heat index of 96 and 55% relative humidity.

So far I'm impressed

DutchDressageQueen
Jul. 10, 2011, 01:07 PM
I never feel it until I actually get off, though, so I get myself in trouble heat-wise a lot.


Same here

nashfad
Jul. 10, 2011, 01:43 PM
I just came in from the heat (only 88 degrees but the humidity is soooooooooo high today) and I read the opening caption as "dressage riders not FARTING well in the heat" sorry, I had to laugh.

TequilaMockingbird
Jul. 10, 2011, 05:54 PM
I regularly ride with a 100+ degree heat index and humidity but in a covered arena. Even in my light weight, short sleeve shirt, I will soak it all the way through, especially on the back.

Most people just avoid showing in the middle of the summer here. The summer schooling show planners avoid judges that are known to not waive jackets. Expecting someone to wear a dark jacket in direct sunlight here is insane. Then you're actually expecting them to do some sort of physical exertion? That's how people develop heat stroke.

Alpha Mare
Jul. 11, 2011, 03:01 PM
I thought this was a pretty interesting question, and I agree the answer could be related to any/all of the factors already mentioned. My thought is that the class judging is probably more influential than anything, with so much of dressage scores being clearly on the horse, and the hunter world not having scores in most classes so the hunters are essentially guessing (educated guessing) what the judge likes.

I ride dressage mostly with some cross-training in a group hunter lesson. I find my legs are more tired when jumping as I'm not used to that muscle group working as hard but that I do get more heated up with dressage. The hunter work seems to have shorter work intervals and longer down time between 'efforts'.

That said, I think my horse works just about as hard in either discipline.

And my hypothesis for the reason the dressage riders use polos on their horses when training more than hunters is that dressage has more trot work, is judged on quality of gaits in each movement, and has NO ability to use NSAIDs while competing.