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View Full Version : Poll: Biggest roadblock to moving up



riderboy
Jun. 18, 2011, 09:29 AM
I have always assumed it would be XC for almost everyone. However, I was curious to see how SJ came into play. I doubt that dressage is much of a factor, but who knows?

CookiePony
Jun. 18, 2011, 09:36 AM
SJ has definitely been my bugaboo in moving up, so I really felt for you when you and that fence had a tangle at MayDaze! In my case, I find it much harder to get the "right" canter in SJ vs XC. You know, the forward while staying balanced, rhythmical and adjustable thing.

Gryhrs
Jun. 18, 2011, 09:50 AM
Ditto CP. Stadium is uber challenging for me. Tho frankly when I walk my nov xc course and look at the ginormous prelim combos and get a vaguely sick to my stomach feeling - xc is a close second.

Duckz
Jun. 18, 2011, 09:59 AM
Having done 3'3 in the hunter/jumper ring, I would say xc and dressage are what need the most work before I move up to Training. Since neither my horse nor I are likely to injure ourselves while attempting a trot lengthening, I chose xc in the poll :) The number one issue for us is going to be conditioning/making time on course. We're running Novice this weekend with xc at 400 mpm and its going to be pedal to the metal for us.

riderboy
Jun. 18, 2011, 10:00 AM
SJ has definitely been my bugaboo in moving up, so I really felt for you when you and that fence had a tangle at MayDaze! In my case, I find it much harder to get the "right" canter in SJ vs XC. You know, the forward while staying balanced, rhythmical and adjustable thing.

Amen!

Bobthehorse
Jun. 18, 2011, 12:00 PM
XC is what we tend to feel is the key to moving up, mostly because its the least forgiving of mistakes (both in terms of technical mistakes and conditioning errors). And since it tends to be what people school the least, its harder to work on the things holding you back (if they are things you cant fix in a ring setting).

I moved up to Prelim without being able to do a half decent rein back. But since Bob seemed to be very offended by it from his shady past, and a crappy rein back wasnt going to kill us, we decided we could wait forever to improve the rein back before moving up but in the end it didnt really matter. We had worked so hard on making sure the jumping phases were rock solid and that he was fit enough that I may have neglected my flatwork slightly leading up to the upgrade and it was probably our weakest phase by that point. Oh well!

Hey Mickey
Jun. 18, 2011, 12:16 PM
I said dressage. Simply because I am on an OTTB. Galloping, jumping and thinking while going are all really easy for my pony. Bending his body and staying focused while going "slower" are not as easy.

Highflyer
Jun. 18, 2011, 12:16 PM
Dressage is and will always be my weakest phase, and due to my horse's mental/ physical issues, it's never going to be pretty. So I feel like, if we can more or less do a consistent, quiet test, I'll take that. My biggest issue is actually not any one phase--it's putting all the pieces together on the day, and not riding like a mentally challenged chimpanzee because I am nervous. So I need to be extra solid to compensate for the fact that my brain will have shut off!

wildlifer
Jun. 18, 2011, 01:33 PM
It's T stadium for me -- I can get a good gallop around XC and generally ride those fences well. Stadium is more technical, no gallop, and more "tweaky" for me when coming up from Novice.

bornfreenowexpensive
Jun. 18, 2011, 03:49 PM
NONE of the above....it is having a sound horse!!!!!

LetsGoXC
Jun. 18, 2011, 04:46 PM
Dressage Dressage Dressage.

At home it is getting very respectable.

Once we get to the show though, the inner Diva surfaces. My little mare become extra hot. Thanks to her former life as a saddle seat horse we LOVE to show off. It is very challenging to keep her from pushing off in to an extended trot anytime we have a straight away to trot on.

On the upside it is a very fancy trot and still gets decent marks, even if the comment is always "above the bit, extension not necessary".

albertaeventer
Jun. 18, 2011, 04:48 PM
For me and my super hot ottb it's dressage hands down!! But in general, I think xc is the biggest factor. Like mentioned above, it's the least forgiving, and once you start moving up the levels, it takes a special kind of horse to keep going when faced with those large intimidating questions and have total trust in their rider, and the rider in the horse. I know plenty of horses/riders that are easily schooling 3'6"/3'9" and higher in the stadium ring, but probably won't ever make it past training level, just because the horses don't have that natural forward, boldness, and braveness that a top level eventer needs to have.

ETA: People will still move up if they have crappy dressage or stadium, but you rarely see people moving up when they have crappy cross country!

CdnRider
Jun. 18, 2011, 04:51 PM
I was going to say Money before I saw what I had to chose from! LOL As I can only afford a few events a year!

But I would say bornfree is right even moreso! A sound horse is a necessity, my horses soundness has nothing to do with lamenss, she had some serious COPD issues last year that kept us from getting anywhere. Moving across the country has helped so far in that department!

Otherwise my issues would be stadium too. My dressage isn't terrific but it's average. For some reason I feel great XC, I event at the Training level and haven't schooled much Prelim yet but mentally I already know that the SJ worries me the most and I will stay at T for a long time to get comfortable. I'm cool with that though!

RiverBendPol
Jun. 18, 2011, 04:58 PM
For me, it is the dressage. I am old and dressage has always been the thing you get through so as to run and jump...My OTTB is not hot. He is l-a-z-y and would rather stand and chat. I am learning to make him go but I am not good at it so it is tricky. My last 2 TBs were happy to go forward-one was usually on the muscle so all I had to do was put that energy into a package. The other had epsm so was always leaping about-all I had to do with him was keep him in the ring. Both were fantastic, clever, quick minded jumpers so the P & I were relatively easy. I think about moving up to P now and I get queasy...because of the dressage!! :lol:

deltawave
Jun. 18, 2011, 05:39 PM
Definitely XC for me. My dressage score is always 39, no matter if I'm riding BN or Preliminary, and in straight dressage I get 65s no matter if it's Intro level or 2nd level so dressage is just sort of there. :lol: I come from H/J land originally and like SJ. Usually don't have horrible rounds or do anything truly awful there.

I've had no problems at all moving up levels on brave horses. Ones that are less brave? HUGE problem for me. I need a horse to have more courage than I have, and I have almost none. :lol:

Aelfleah Farm
Jun. 18, 2011, 07:31 PM
For my junior, it's the dressage. My mare is young-ish and has only been showing a year. Heck, she's only been over fences at all for 18 months, but the fences aren't their problem. She bold, and has nice go. But she is a tough ride for dressage.

They school training xc without issue. Okay, I have issues. I get terrified watching! But they can do everything, jump in and out of water, do ditches, banks (up and down) drops into water, etc. And they've show jumped 1m at A/AA shows and ribboned. The pony as the scope easily, and my kiddo is as brave as they come.

It's the dressage scores that aren't there. Weren't there at BN but we moved up any way. And still aren't there much at Novice. But unless something happens I might have to let them move up anyway either this fall or next spring as I can't see the kiddo politely staying at Novice just because she can't score below middle of the pack in dressage.

Duckz
Jun. 18, 2011, 09:27 PM
I need a horse to have more courage than I have, and I have almost none. :lol:

Amen to that :yes: My horse gives me courage on xc, it's certainly not the other way around.

Carol Ames
Jun. 18, 2011, 11:40 PM
My first thought was : " the horse"!:lol:; then which phase? "XC!":mad:

CBudFrggy
Jun. 19, 2011, 12:15 AM
Clearly, it's my job that keeps me from schooling, competing and ultimately from moving up. :D

besum1
Jun. 19, 2011, 01:53 AM
for me it's the height of the jump- not specifically the XC or SJ phase, and for the Dressage- It can be faked (though that equals a crappy score.... ;))

I use to chicken out when the jump got bigger than 3'6- now I'm chickening out at 2'9!!! (though to be fair my current horse is just learning how to jump and spent 6 years as a Dressage only pony so I do NOT feel comfortable galloping him at a Prelim fence... yet! Heck we are still working on finding our "inner" gallop! hahaha!!)

tnscvaga
Jun. 19, 2011, 08:36 AM
NONE of the above....it is having a sound horse!!!!!

same here

kkindley
Jun. 19, 2011, 11:27 AM
Hmmm... At first it was jumping, maresy was just learning this skill last year at the ripe age of 11. So we did a ton of BBN starter events last year to get her confident and happy. Dressage at that level was pretty easy for her. I mean that is with a lot of dressage schoolings at home, because the better our dressage, the better our jumping. Moved up to BN late last year for a final event and only did 2 this year and then moved up to Novice because she got so confident at BN, which is what I had been waiting for. There is nothing new in the N dressage over the BN, so that was easy peasy.

Now the move up to T will be more based on dressage than jumping. We have already started coming in on our circles, and next dressage lesson we are starting to work on transitions within the gaits. She's pretty solid in our jumping, so I think by the time we get our dressage where it needs to be, jumping that level will be down pat. :)

I'm just so proud of her when I think that February a year ago I had just gotten her and she had zero education. none. nada. And I never focused on eventing as a kid and then took a number of years off. So this is all new to both of us. :D

CANTEREOIN
Jun. 19, 2011, 12:19 PM
SJ has definitely been my bugaboo in moving up, so I really felt for you when you and that fence had a tangle at MayDaze! In my case, I find it much harder to get the "right" canter in SJ vs XC. You know, the forward while staying balanced, rhythmical and adjustable thing.

Ah shucks! I wish I read this before I went to my lesson yesterday. THIS was my problem and while, I didn't fail, it just wasn't pretty at all. And my horse had to work a hundred times harder because I couldn't find the true balance between forward/impulsion and running...

SIGH...

riderboy
Jun. 19, 2011, 01:48 PM
Ah shucks! I wish I read this before I went to my lesson yesterday. THIS was my problem and while, I didn't fail, it just wasn't pretty at all. And my horse had to work a hundred times harder because I couldn't find the true balance between forward/impulsion and running...

SIGH...

I know. Forward, but strung out and flat. "Package" him and I kill the engine. I know what I'm supposed to do, I just don't know how! It'll come. The poll is interesting though, it looks like people are still buying XC horses and trying to sort out the dressage and stadium. I would have thought almost all the move up issues would have been XC because of the obvious danger of that phase.

Hilary
Jun. 20, 2011, 10:00 AM
Having the right horse and having it stay sound. BUt as for phases, I've found that while I feel that XC is my weakest phase, all three of them sort of progress along the same line - I just did a PT in anticipation of the full move up, I am much more comforatable jumping a big show jumping fence than a big solid XC fence and the dressage? No danger there except my ego at the scoreboard.

However, she did a quite respectable dressage test and wasn't fazed by the size of the SJ course at all.

I've never felt that one piece was so out of line with the others that moving up was held back by that phase.

fargaloo
Jun. 20, 2011, 03:22 PM
Wow, this is a great thread for me as I just posted a thread asking f it's ok for me to move up if my dressage still sucks!!

I think from a safety perspective, xc should always be the deciding factor. A bad dressage ride won't kill you.

cranky
Jun. 20, 2011, 03:59 PM
I think a big part of it for me is just getting my mind in the right place. Once I can get my focus and my nerves sorted out, I seem to be in the right place to work constructively towards the move up. Dressage is technically our worse phase, but if I have the right attitude and can do the jumping work with confidence, then everything seems to fall into place okay. (Mind you, we're talking about a move from BN to N in this case, so take this with that grain of salt).

JWB
Jun. 20, 2011, 06:46 PM
I have MASSIVE drop/down bank phobia. My horse is fine with them but they make my blood pressure shoot up 20 points SO my horse and I are plunking around BN for ever and ever till I get over that, in spite of the fact that BN courses look itty bitty and our dressage is (usually) fantastic.

When I do straight jumper classes, I do 3' or 3'3.... but I know I won't see a down bank or drop.

VCT
Jun. 20, 2011, 07:29 PM
I am only doing starter/2ft type stuff right now.... but the big problem for me is confidence XC. I just need more mileage and to get stronger in my leg. The big problem for my horse is dressage. I think the XC will come together this year... the dressage will probably always be an issue for us. We do pretty well together in stadium - we are both happy and comfy there. I think this dynamic will pretty much stay the same for us throughout our partnership no matter the level.

Highflyer
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:09 PM
Wow, this is a great thread for me as I just posted a thread asking f it's ok for me to move up if my dressage still sucks!!

I think from a safety perspective, xc should always be the deciding factor. A bad dressage ride won't kill you.

It might cause the judge's head to explode, though!

Carol Ames
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:20 PM
There was a time, early 1980ies, that Jim Wofford began his clinics, saying that he, Bruce, mike Plumb and probably Denny had put their "heads together:lol: and agreed that the accidents and fatalities:eek: occurred while jumping:yes:.not dressage:no:; and so, Jim had added another jumping session, while cutting out the dressage session; wisely, because though many of us may have dreaded :eek:the dressage; there were few, if any injuries;), and no:cool: fatalities resulting from problems in the dressage phase;for sometime I had been annoyed by a local Pony Club D.C. and self appointed "instructor telling mothers; to buy a horse/ pony who, would be in the top three after dressage because that was where events were won; this to a parent I was trying to sell an aged packer to ; had I been thinking more clearly, I could have replied oh, doesn't the same rider need to be alive and well enough-to do stadium also? :confused: I hoped a BNT/ BNR would write an article for COTH, PH OR USEA news stating the obvious; The dressage score doesn't matter if there is an injury or fatality:eek: :no:in one of the jumping phases :o

fargaloo
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:40 PM
It might cause the judge's head to explode, though!

Arrrgh!! That's exactly what I was worried about on my other thread :lol: ;)

piaffeprincess98
Jun. 20, 2011, 08:53 PM
I'm eyeing a prelim moveup with my OTTB that I've brought along. I've ridden at prelim before with my ex-advanced horse and he was tough show jumping. I was never confirmed at the level myself though before he went unsound and retired. I think I've developed an anxiety and some bad habits (ducking right mostly) from him that make me want to wait until the end of this season to try for a move up with my OTTB.

I feel like I'm at the point where I'm almost holding him back from his potential. I look at the prelim stadium courses and just get really nervous. I've been keeping track of the prelim XC courses too and a lot of them seem fun because they have more combinations which he's great at. Anything where he needs to be quick on his feet and he's awesome. He lives for it.

But as far as the show jumping, for me it's also about keeping the right pace without letting him get strung out and without me throwing my upper body/pinching with my knees. I'm still working on that at training level but we school bigger jumps at home. At events, bad habits seem to come back because that's still a comfort zone for me.