PDA

View Full Version : Reasonable lease price?



confusedTB
Jun. 9, 2011, 03:43 PM
My beloved eventer is retired from the upper levels, but still has plenty of spunk left to teach an A/O or YR the ropes at BN/N/T. I have a young one to bring along, so Id like to lease her out with the possible option to buy.

I know prices can really vary depending on the situation and terms, but what is an "average" range of per-month lease prices? (Or is it more common to do like a bi-anual fee?) Do lease-ees usually cover general cost of care for the horse (farrier, routine vet stuff) or is that still covered by the owner? (it would preferably be an off-farm lease, as I board my guys)

I was thinking $300/month? But I have really no idea.

deltawave
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:01 PM
For $300/month I'd want a horse that is winning easily at the CCI* level with a monkey riding. :)

Most leases for lower level horses around here are for the cost of board, shoes and routine vet care. Perhaps it is much different elsewhere, though.

confusedTB
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the imput :) I honestly have no clue what the ranges are!!

I pay $550 for board, so the idea of leasing her out was to help cover at least a chunk of her board. $600 is standard board around here. She has lots of miles at prelim/Int and 2 CCI*'s under her belt, including NAJYRC. I wouldnt consider her a push-button ride, but will teach you a LOT and will easily win when all the pieces are together. I also think she would be a lot more forgiving at the BN/N level than she was when she was 2* fit. lol.

skip916
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:15 PM
i leased a novice event horse two years ago. it was a full lease (i had full use of horse and could take him to shows, clinics etc.), on-farm, where i had to keep him at the barn where the owner had chosen to board him.

i paid $200 a month flat fee and then later when i decided his shoeing was insufficient, i offered to pay for his shoes if she let me pick the farrier- which i did. so it ended up being about $250 a month.

now, because of the sales market, i see mostly "care" leases, where the lessor is responsible for all care, vet, farrier, lessons etc and usually the board or a portion of it, but there is no "fee" for use of the horse.

fordtraktor
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:17 PM
You should be able to find someone to pay all her expenses. If you want a kicker on TOP of that it might be a little harder but certainly possible if she is known around. Ask the better trainers in the area, barns where you'd like her to go, if any of their students might be interested.

Sonoma City
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:19 PM
If it's a lease at the barn where you are boarding her, usually I see a full lease costing the price of board plus farrier, with the owner covering the routine vet expenses. If it's a half lease it would be half the board/farrier. How you handle other things (like if the horse was injured while under the leasors supervision) would be defined in the lease agreement. If you are letting her go for an off the farm lease, where the leasor would pay for board/vet/farrier/insurance/etc., it's going to be hard to find someone to pay a monthly lease fee on top of that (I would think anyway). IME, off the farm leases are usually set up for a particular amount of time (e.g. 1 year), and on farm leases are usually rolling with something like 60 days notice if the person wants to end the lease. Leases vary greatly though, so this is just a guideline based on what I have seen.

moonriverfarm
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:19 PM
I lease my older hunter to a friend's lesson barn as a "care" lease. All his care is covered by that BO/BM and in turn they "lease" him to a student to ride and show. He is also insured with me as beneficiary. It has worked out well for all parties as this is a point and shoot 17h horse who could carry a two year old kid around a course!

smilesthepony
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:38 PM
I leased a been there done that event horse. Had competed intermediate, 5 foot jumpers and 3ed level dressage. I paid around 450 a month for a full lease on his home farm. The owner charged me board plus 10% a year of his full price. So she took full price, say 20k, and took 10%, then divided by 12 for each month. It was well worth my money, and I know a ton of people who are willing to pay that in my area. Good luck finding a leaser!

Janet
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:41 PM
Do you mean $300 a month IN ADDITION to paying all the care (board, feed, vet, farrier)? That is not common for a lower level eventer.

It is more common just to take over all the expenses (including mortality and heath insurance).

*Trinity*
Jun. 9, 2011, 04:53 PM
For $300/month I'd want a horse that is winning easily at the CCI* level with a monkey riding. :)

Most leases for lower level horses around here are for the cost of board, shoes and routine vet care. Perhaps it is much different elsewhere, though.

Ditto on the LL horses. You should be able to find someone to cover all expenses, but no extra lease fee.

Random musing: I'm not sure what one should be expected to pay for an FEI level horse on lease - $300 for a confirmed, winning CCI* seems pretty low, although it would depend on area as usual. I looked recently for a good Prelim/Int horse and would even have looked at confirmed Training horses ready to move up that showed obvious potential. The only ones I found were an Ontario based 17 year old who needed regular chiro/massage work, hadn't competed above Entry in years, and was eliminated at CCI* - twice. His results for Prelim were downright poor. They wanted $700/month PLUS all expenses! HA!
The second horse I found was in New Jersey with unreliable results at Prelim. The owner had ridiculous claims on the horse that results didn't back up (ie, horse never stopped, great dressage, etc) and again, wanted a ridiculous fee for the horse.

vbunny
Jun. 9, 2011, 06:00 PM
All expenses plus insurance. In the H/J a lease is 1/3 of the full price per year plus insurance and all expenses paid

FlightCheck
Jun. 9, 2011, 06:06 PM
my student is leasing a former Intermediate horse. Owner (thanks Scubed!) paid to ship him down here, and student pays for everything .

I've had many students through the years lease horses or lease out horses. It has always been for "all expense paid by the lessee".

Thank you to all of you who allow riders to lease your older eventers. The education is priceless.

Duckz
Jun. 9, 2011, 06:27 PM
All expenses plus insurance. In the H/J a lease is 1/3 of the full price per year plus insurance and all expenses paid

This was my experience in the H/J world for a show horse. I'm surprised that most of the answers have indicated you can get a BN/N/T packer on a free lease! (free lease = you pay for care of the horse but no additional fee to the owner) There were plenty of free leases in the H/J world too, but rarely for an experienced horse that would cart around an AO or a jr in the show ring.

I'll be interested to see if this is just one of those things that's different between the two worlds.

Backstage
Jun. 9, 2011, 06:47 PM
I think its quite easy to find a BN/N horse without a lease fee. On the other hand, if the horse could show an Ammy or junior the ropes at the Training level, you have a much better shot at getting something over and above the horse's expenses. I know would certainly pay a reasonable lease fee for a horse like that.

scubed
Jun. 9, 2011, 06:55 PM
I currently own 3 horses that are leased. Lesees pay 99% of expenses though I have contributed to supplements for 2 of them. Two are confirmed training level and the third is the former intermediated horse mentioned by Flightcheck.

On the other side, I was lucky enough to have a no fee lease of a former 3* horse that I rode for a season at preliminary.

There are enough out there that I would not pay more than full care unless the horse were going to cart me ( very similar to monkey invoked by DW) around intermediate

BestHorses
Jun. 9, 2011, 07:11 PM
I currently own 3 horses that are leased. Lesees pay 99% of expenses though I have contributed to supplements for 2 of them. Two are confirmed training level and the third is the former intermediated horse mentioned by Flightcheck.

On the other side, I was lucky enough to have a no fee lease of a former 3* horse that I rode for a season at preliminary.

There are enough out there that I would not pay more than full care unless the horse were going to cart me ( very similar to monkey invoked by DW) around intermediate

I had no idea leasing was so prevalent since I rarely see ads for leases. Are leases usually only found by word of mouth?

Also I'm curious as to what happens if the horse is injured? I know the horses are insured but do the leasees generally keep an injured horse for the full term of the lease if something happens?

deltawave
Jun. 9, 2011, 08:32 PM
Also I'm curious as to what happens if the horse is injured? I know the horses are insured but do the leasees generally keep an injured horse for the full term of the lease if something happens?

A fair question, and worth discussing ahead of time! I have my own place and quite a fondness for the horse I'm leasing (you guessed it, one of scubed's, LOL) so was very happy to keep him with me when he got hurt. Looking after the beasts is as rewarding to me as riding them (and I'm miles better at the former) so it was zero heartburn for me. For someone with more intense competitive goals or no place to keep a rehabbing horse, however, it could be a problem.

IME leases do often happen by word of mouth, and particularly via COTH. This is a pretty tight community. :)

Opus1
Jun. 9, 2011, 08:51 PM
I'll be interested to see if this is just one of those things that's different between the two worlds.

I know, right? Given my riding level, it might be better if I look for a lower-level eventing horse to lease than an equitation horse.

ake987
Jun. 9, 2011, 09:35 PM
Half lease $250 here.

Duckz
Jun. 9, 2011, 09:39 PM
I know, right? Given my riding level, it might be better if I look for a lower-level eventing horse to lease than an equitation horse.

No kidding, some of these event horses have been around the block a few times, wouldn't bat an eye at a 3'6 equitation course, and are really broke on the flat to boot. I sense an untapped market here :cool:

technopony
Jun. 9, 2011, 09:47 PM
In Area II, I've noticed a range of arrangements - but I think if your horse could safely take someone around Training, reliably, you should be able to charge $200-$300 a month if the leasee will be taking the horse into their care, and paying for the horse's expenses. If you are going to continue to pay the horse's expenses, I would charge whatever those expenses are, plus $200- $300 on top. For a horse with the experience yours has, the leasee should be paying a bit for the horse's training and experience in addition to her expenses.

Most leases also require that the leasee take out an insurance policy on the horse.

VicariousRider
Jun. 9, 2011, 09:48 PM
I agree with Janet & vbunny: all expenses plus the cost of insurance for a full lease.

ellebeaux
Jun. 9, 2011, 11:07 PM
This is all good to learn about since this is what I'll be looking for once I get a job and settle down. A been there, done that, horse to cart me around BN and N!

VicariousRider
Jun. 10, 2011, 09:00 AM
I just want to add that the terms that you choose to ask for can also be bargaining chips.

For example: if you want the horse to stay at your current barn, under the watchful eye of your current trainer or be ridden by the amazing but not wealthy young rider who you've always admired you may decide to just take a deal where they cover expenses and insurance. For me, these above things matter more to me than the $2,400 a year I would get from a $200/mo. lease fee because I am more assured that I will get my horse back in the same (or better!) condition, both mentally and physically.

Toadie's mom
Jun. 10, 2011, 03:16 PM
I'm about to lease out a horse for the 4th time. Lessee pays board, insurance, plus routine vet and farrier care. I say routine, because if something major medically comes up I'd hope the insurance would cover it. I have my own place but people I've leased to have always been far enough away that they paid for board somewhere else.

Because I have my own place if the horse can no longer be ridden for whatever reason, I'll take them back no problem. I wouldn't expect someone to pay board for a horse they couldn't ride even if the situation arises before the lease time is up.

Janet
Jun. 10, 2011, 03:46 PM
I had no idea leasing was so prevalent since I rarely see ads for leases. Are leases usually only found by word of mouth?
Yes, usually by word of mouth. and often initiated by the potential leassor: "I see Susy is going off to college in September. Will she be taking her horse with her? Or will you be looking for someone to lease him? If so, I might be interested."

Or telling the vet and the farrier "My horse is going to be laid up for 18 months, and I am interested in leasing in the mean time"

Often the owner is not actively looking for a leassor, but is just "trying to figure out what to do with the horse ". If someone they know, or who comes with reccommendations from someone they respect, is interested in leasing, they might follow up.

ThirdCharm
Jun. 10, 2011, 04:03 PM
This was my experience in the H/J world for a show horse. I'm surprised that most of the answers have indicated you can get a BN/N/T packer on a free lease! (free lease = you pay for care of the horse but no additional fee to the owner) There were plenty of free leases in the H/J world too, but rarely for an experienced horse that would cart around an AO or a jr in the show ring.
.

An AO or Jr hunter has to cart someone around at 3'6" and a competitive one costs a mint fortune. A competitive Preliminary horse (3'7") can be had for $25-50K (depending on where you live and just HOW fancy and easy it is). Hence the difference, I expect.

Jennifer

confusedTB
Jun. 10, 2011, 05:25 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

Im a little torn because I am considering marketing her more towards the hunter world, with a $$ lease. She is super fancy on the flat and over fences and I think she would make a great children's horse, but I am definitely more "connected" to the eventing world, and could find someone to care-lease her pretty easily.

I guess I just need to put some feelers out and see what happens. Thanks again!

ThirdCharm
Jun. 10, 2011, 05:52 PM
1) must have auto changes to market toward hunters.

2) a horse only has so many lifetime jumps in it, and hunters tend to jump more than eventers. This is another reason why the timeframe for recouping the horse's value while leasing is so short. Leased horses tend to get 'used up'. So it may also depend on what your plans are post-lease.....

Jennifer