PDA

View Full Version : Ideas for first jumper for kid coming off ponies?



murph
Jun. 5, 2011, 05:15 PM
Could use some input on ideas for best type for first jumper for 11 yr old tall kid, good rider, wanting to move up off ponies.

Would love to do pony jumpers but we don't have any in eastern Canada! So she would have to compete against horses with horse striding. Would like to start her out in the .85m and eventually move up to the 1m, so like 2'9 to 3'3 range.

Kid is a solid rider, shown A smalls and mediums, good pony jock that's ridden/shown a lot of really tough ones so she's a brave kid. Currently just put her on a 16.1hh TB mare that's a nice hunter packer, though a sensitive ride, and she rides her lovely and finds her easy as pie and can jump her around. She really wants to do jumpers though.

There's a few ways we can go and I'm curious what others would do in this situation. My feeling is a hopefully smallish WB (like 15.2 to 16.1h) that's in it's teens and been there done that over the 3'6 or higher divisions, a solid oldie ready to move down, maybe needs a fair bit of maintenance but that will look at the 2'9-3' jumps like they are a joke and just pack her around and ignore her mistakes and give her some nice confident mileage. Don't need the class winner.

Problem is I'm finding the older packer types but they are all like 16.2-17h and I'm thinking it's a helluva long way for a little kid to fall if something goes awry. I already own a REALLY nice 16.2 packer but it's a real backcracker and I think it would jump her out of the tack and my other one is quiet/easy but just started his show career and I really want something with lots of miles.

Other option is go to a large pony?

I'm having trouble finding something like 15.2-3hh that's actually done any bigger jumps and isn't a local yokel type.

So what size would you put this kid on? And what age would you look for? And lastly what's it gonna cost in this market ;) I've already checked through bigeq and some of the other typical sites. (I was hoping I could just trade one of my younger ones for an oldie but man I'm just not finding much!)

How come when you are selling there are no buyers and everyone laments it's such a buyers market but when you want to buy everything is a BIG price or there's nothing out there LOL. It's the Murphy's Law of the horse business :D

*Liz*
Jun. 5, 2011, 05:53 PM
I sent you a PM :)

Come Shine
Jun. 5, 2011, 06:03 PM
You should have no trouble finding something that can do the .85 and 1m on the Trillium circuit. The fences and courses tend to be straightforward and there usually isn't a ton of people (so getting a ribbon generally isn't decided by milliseconds in the jump-off).

For a first-time jumper rider, something SLOW and honest would be my preference. It always scares the pants off me to see the kids learning to do the jumpers by carooming around.

You do see a fair number of ponies in the jumper ring, so size wise, that opens your market up. Have you thought about even leasing something for the season? Or putting some feelers out to an eventing barn? What about an ex-hunt horse? How about pulling the results from last year's Trillium circuit and calling around to see if any of those horses are up for sale and/or lease. I know of a few in our area that have stepped down from the bigger jumpers with newer riders.

Good luck!

Rel6
Jun. 5, 2011, 06:23 PM
Honestly, I really wouldn't worry about the height. In fact your kid might feel more comfortable pointing her horse at a 3ft jump sitting in top of a 17hander than a 15 hander. I went from ponies to a 17.1 hand warmblood jumper and she packed me around everything from the 3ft jumpers to the 3'6''. Taught me so much, and I felt really confident on her partly because for her size I knew the height was effortless. Plus I'm only 5'1'' full grown and you said your kid was tall? Good luck with the search though!

alto
Jun. 5, 2011, 07:38 PM
Depends on how tall is the kid & has she just come off a growth spurt (or is she likely heading into one ... - pediatrician can give a pretty decent estimate as to how much is still going to happen - OR maybe we just had an outstanding ped) - I like kids to be able to tack & groom even when the horse/pony is being a jerk (head sky high, antsy etc) so I'd base the size of the ride on these factors.

(I see too many kids using step up's around their horses :no: - sure the horse may be a packer but when the drive'emcrazyflies are out, none of the horses are non-reactive!)

11 is still a kid - get her the BIG horse when she's 13 or 15 etc ... look into leasing if you can't find a buy.

We have a large pony (young & green so just starting to jump this summer) & he constantly amazes the trainer with his striding - he may look like a pony, but he moves like a horse :lol:

greenwoodeq
Jun. 5, 2011, 10:04 PM
Size might not be too much of an issue if you look for the schooling horse type. You know sweet gentle and easy to learn on. Some of the young ones at our barn have big honkers, but they're all ex-eq horses and they let the kids mess up and learn without throwing fits...safer than a lot of the naughty ponies out there. I never even had a pony i had a smaller (15.3 maybe a little less) TB cross who had been around the block and just let me figure it out.

SquishTheBunny
Jun. 5, 2011, 11:51 PM
Why would you restrict yourself to small warmbloods?

Look at the top 1m horses from last year, in ontario the only one that I know was a lease was a small TB mare. She is 15hh, and has been in the top 5 for 1m jumpers for the past 5 years, all with new kid riders. again, this year, she has been leased out to a new jumper rider. She wins, all the time, because she is a fast, careful, and an EASY ride...and she's not a warmblood. I believe her lease price is in the five figures.

If you have financial concerns, buy one like that - a careful/fast large pony or small thoroughbred. You'll be hard pressed to find a GOOD small warmblood with a lower budget. Especially under 1.20, scope isnt as important as ridability and the ability for a horse to keep going no matter how many mistakes :)

I know several up and coming jr. riders (now doing the 1.40's) who just 3 years ago were bootin' around the 1m's with their ponies and 15hh TB's. :)

Rel6
Jun. 6, 2011, 12:39 AM
Why would you restrict yourself to small warmbloods?

Look at the top 1m horses from last year, in ontario the only one that I know was a lease was a small TB mare. She is 15hh, and has been in the top 5 for 1m jumpers for the past 5 years, all with new kid riders. again, this year, she has been leased out to a new jumper rider. She wins, all the time, because she is a fast, careful, and an EASY ride...and she's not a warmblood. I believe her lease price is in the five figures.

If you have financial concerns, buy one like that - a careful/fast large pony or small thoroughbred. You'll be hard pressed to find a GOOD small warmblood with a lower budget. Especially under 1.20, scope isnt as important as ridability and the ability for a horse to keep going no matter how many mistakes :)

I know several up and coming jr. riders (now doing the 1.40's) who just 3 years ago were bootin' around the 1m's with their ponies and 15hh TB's. :)

THIS. I think you need to be a little more open-minded about breed and size. The bottom line is that anything is going to be different than her pony. Try some packer jumps, and just see what she likes best. Have fun with the search!

remrenam
Jun. 6, 2011, 07:35 AM
I'm in pretty much the same boat except we are looking for a show hunter. Breed doesn't really matter but I find that most of the smaller, larger striding horses have some warmblood somewhere. This is by no means a "rule" though. The selection in the ~15.2 hh range is very limited for me so I'm not going to be picky about the breed as long as the movement is there. I have seen some smaller hunters that have good enough striding to make the lines so I know they are out there... just not so many. The transition from a medium pony to a 16.2+ hh. horse can be tougher especially when the rider is on the younger side and quite light in weight and frame. I also find that it doesn't look very balanced either to see a smaller, lighter person on such a large horse. JMO though....

Ray
Jun. 6, 2011, 07:55 AM
I agree with the poster that said to be open minded about breed. there are some very sweet smaller TB's out there and they dont sell in this market for much. and my horse is a 15.2 draft cross who can WIN in 3' jumpers

Linny
Jun. 6, 2011, 10:11 AM
For a child moving up, the length of the stride can be very tricky to adjust to. I'd try to stay smaller. Adjusting to a 17h horse's stride will be tough enough.
Don't be hung up on breed but focus on safe and sane. There are calm quiet TB's out there and even many "unconventional" breeds are very capable of doing 3' or 3'3 easily. Not that it's ever easy, but looking for a jumper, at least it doesn't have to be pretty or a fancy mover. One of the first jumper clases I ever did was on a "Pintaloosamorgan Vanner." He was ugly and moved like a washing maching missing one foot but he jumped like a saint.

leilatigress
Jun. 6, 2011, 10:26 AM
It's a helluva jump from the pony to the horse. DD does it on a weekly basis though as she has one lesson on a 11.2hh pony and a lesson on a 15hh horse with HUGE stride. First time she made the change she about had a heart attack thankfully both horse & pony pack her around like champs and won't jump her out of the tack. Pony even does a polite refusal by sitting back which keeps her in the tack when she's not asking correctly or he knows she's not going to make it over.
I'd go the TB route and aim for the 16hh mark. If the height doesn't scare her off she should be fine. DD has no issue with the height difference (I do!) it's the difference in the stride and the lines that gave her problems. As for the falling problem I've been just as damaged by a fall off a 14hh pony as I was off a 17hh monster. Leasing would be the option I would go as it's what we're doing until DD is a bit older and more settled in her height. She is a PITA to match to horses as she's light as a feather and tall with lots of leg that slight built horses just don't take up.

kayteedee
Jun. 6, 2011, 10:50 AM
I don't know - why shouldn't the 16.2 packer you already have be a good idea? A real backcracker can be good for a talented kid to move on to the next level. If she is as good a rider as you say, she should learn how to stay with one like that. At 11, she may be on the verge of greatness- why not give it a go? At her age, she is almost at her athletic peak. What better time to learn? Make sure her saddle has some good support and have at it. She may impress you.

I agree with Rel6- don't close off options just due to size and breed. When I was 12 I was riding everything I could get my saddle on- bringing along OTTB greenies, schooling the schoolies when they were naughty, big, little, and everything in between, plus my own Appendix QH who was himself a backcracker. If they hadn't let me ride ALL the beasties, I wouldn't be as strong a rider as I am.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Meanwhile, I will also send you a PM.

murph
Jun. 6, 2011, 01:25 PM
I don't know - why shouldn't the 16.2 packer you already have be a good idea? A real backcracker can be good for a talented kid to move on to the next level. If she is as good a rider as you say, she should learn how to stay with one like that. At 11, she may be on the verge of greatness- why not give it a go? At her age, she is almost at her athletic peak. What better time to learn? Make sure her saddle has some good support and have at it. She may impress you.


Actually told her yesterday I was going to put her on the backcracker and see how it goes :D It's a dream horse really, fits all the requirements except that it's so careful and athletic that it can be hard to stay with over the fences at times. It was supposed to be a sale horse but I'm loving it too much to let it go I think, so I'll do it in the 1.2m this year and it will be the perfect horse for her in a year or two I'll bet. I'm just thinking something a bit smaller and less athletic for the transition horse ;)

Honestly I'm not a breed snob, she's actually riding a 16.1hh TB now and doing great (it's a hunter not a jumper) and have looked at everything from 14hh to 16.3hh. We actually tried a 14.2hh eventing pony last week, huge chunk of a thing, looked like paint/draft cross. I was game if it would pack her but it was the slowest thing on 4 legs and none too keen to make much effort over the jumps. Not a fun ride lol.

I'm mainly wanting something not too quick so I was thinking more along the lines of a WB, QHx etc as we all know TBs can be quick and sensitive though of course there are exceptions. I can't stand seeing kids or novice riders bombing around jumpers like kamikazes, I'm looking for more of the Eq round at this point :D

M. Owen
Jun. 6, 2011, 10:20 PM
I went from a large pony (children's ponies, not pony hunter division) to a 16.3 solidly built TB when I was 13 years old to do equitation. However, the horse turned out to be FANTASTIC at and LOVE the jumpers, so we did jumpers with eq on the side. I was about 5 ft tall at the time, but he was the right horse and packed my butt around. He was around 18 years old and very much point and shoot, all I had to do was remember the course. That horse taught me a lot and gave me confidence. Moving up to the 3'-3'6" range was easier on a large horse I think, than on a small horse because he had plenty of scope and step to get us out of trouble if I made a bad decision. Actually, he was so smart he just overruled my bad decisions and did the job anyhow. He was a saint and I had a blast on him.

My recommendation would be don't worry about size. Look for an experienced older horse that loves his job, can take a joke, and teach your young rider the ropes. Just read the final post- the horse I rode jumped pretty much flat as a board, but was tidy with his legs and never touched a jump, so didn't jump me loose at all.

Ponytoes
Jun. 6, 2011, 11:35 PM
When I saw your original post I thought OMG this is us, just sold dd large division pony that she started showing at age 10 and is now turning 13 for a backcracker green jumper. It belonged to our trainer so we got to ride it a lot before we purchased and could not pass up. Yes we have had some scary moments, and we probably will have some more, but dd fell in love and we are starting at baby height in the jumpers but feel we have lots of scope and talent for the move up, which sounds the same for you. My thoughts were, I knew where this horse came from, its past, trainer gave us a really good deal cause they wanted to keep it in the barn, so don't have a lot invested. Give them a chance, lucky it is already in the barn, and you know this horse, better than shopping and finding something with hidden issues.

shawneeAcres
Jun. 7, 2011, 12:48 PM
Personally I find the QH/TB (Appendix QH) to be excellent choices for riders coming off ponies. Usually the stride isn't overwhelming or the jump, but they are atheletic and usually can either give the safe add or go for the distance. I look for these when I ahve a kid coming off a pony, or somtimes even as ponies (large) for kids starting out. You can't beat the brains and atheltic ability of a good QH cross!

Hunter Mom
Jun. 7, 2011, 01:06 PM
The horse you described, except for one thing, is my horse. He's right at 16 hands, is still capable of doing 3'6" at age 18, is very competitive, sound as can be, and almost too honest as he'll jump no matter what I'm doing up there. He is adjustable to anything, has a very athletic jump, but will laugh with you when needed. He was in your price range. What is he NOT? A warmblood. He's an appendix QH. And I'd take another just like him in a hearbeat!

SweetTalk
Jun. 7, 2011, 01:26 PM
Personally I find the QH/TB (Appendix QH) to be excellent choices for riders coming off ponies. Usually the stride isn't overwhelming or the jump, but they are atheletic and usually can either give the safe add or go for the distance. I look for these when I ahve a kid coming off a pony, or somtimes even as ponies (large) for kids starting out. You can't beat the brains and atheltic ability of a good QH cross!

I second this! I have an appendix gelding. I'm an adult ammy doing the locals and a small rated when I can afford it. He's an absolute dream, the best of both worlds breed-wise. He's easy, he has a great attitude. I adore him. Good luck! :)

xxreddxheaddxx
Jun. 7, 2011, 09:07 PM
last horseshow i was at the girl who won ( i think, maybe she came home with 2nd) the usef medal was a 13 yr old who had just moved off her medium pony onto a recently imported greenie wb, no worries, they will just adjust.

gmv567
Jun. 8, 2011, 04:45 PM
Another PM :)