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View Full Version : Model class...Does he have good confo? (w/ picture)



cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 3, 2011, 01:55 PM
So I am completely new to the model class, but someone told me I should give it a shot. I think Forrest looks good, but then again I am completely bias. So I was wondering if I could get some outside opinions.

Also I know hes not standing correctly but this is the most up to date picture I have of him without tack.

April 2011
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31013029&l=637687196d&id=50000208

Jan 2011
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30959146&l=8c58147f8e&id=50000208

Thoughts?

silanac
Jun. 3, 2011, 03:30 PM
i think the bone structure is there and in general he is quite correct. nice straight leg, good pasterns. he could use some muscling in his rear end and top of neck. he does have large withers so if his neck filled out a bit the withers would not look quite so protruding. very cute!

joiedevie99
Jun. 3, 2011, 03:34 PM
Not sure what model class you are talking about. I'm assuming the Conformation Hunters since he doesn't look like a pony. If so, he will need a lot more muscle on his topline, and development/muscle in his neck.

cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 3, 2011, 04:01 PM
Its for a Thoroughbred show that I am participating in next weekend. So I'm not 100% what the guidelines would be but he would only be competing against other thoroughbreds.

I know his rear is definitely lacking, its been hard since he has an SI, but we are slowly starting to work on hills again so hopefully it will fill in some! Its been an everlasting battle trying to strengthen that left hind leg, but we're getting there!

Thanks again for the comments!

jewll27
Jun. 3, 2011, 07:48 PM
I think he needs a bit more of a top line to make those withers not look so high but otherwise hes a great lookin boy! My personal preference, Id like to see a little bit more weight on him but some would disagree.

woodhillsmanhattan
Jun. 3, 2011, 11:44 PM
He is overall well balanced and correct. He is definately lacking in his hind end and I feel like his croup to tail is rather short. I agree he needs a little more weight and definately a lot more muscle. Remember that most conformation classes also judge movement and soundness (often asked to jog down a longside or something). So be sure to gradually build up more muscle and do lots of hills, cavelletis, and transitions.

alliekat
Jun. 4, 2011, 07:40 AM
Over all I really like your boy. I agree that with some additional weight and conditioning he will really stand out. How long have you had him? I really look forward to watching him develop. Love his face too :) Good luck.

wanderlust
Jun. 4, 2011, 11:14 AM
If you aren't now, try adding some rice bran to his diet. I've found that it really helps get a nice "bloom" on the ones that can be hard to get weight on, and their coats really glow.

findeight
Jun. 4, 2011, 11:33 AM
It depends on what else is in the class...they are judged against each other. So there is no yes or no here without seeing his competition.

I do think he needs alot of work to get his coat more presentable and some more weight. His biggest fault looks to be his hindend as has been mentioned, weight is going to help that smooth out and look better. And, really, we are talking elbow grease more then anything else and that's free.

LaurieB
Jun. 4, 2011, 12:29 PM
He is a fine looking horse and, as others have mentioned, how he would do in a model class will depend upon his competition. However, TB judges will deduct for him being both a bit back at the knee and also slightly sickle hocked, neither of which are desireable traits for TBs--though they probably don't interfere with his performance at all.

Summit Springs Farm
Jun. 4, 2011, 12:44 PM
Try looking at true mode/conformationl horse pictures, you'll see the difference and what you'll need to do to get your horse in shape to compete. Good Luck.

alteringwego
Jun. 4, 2011, 07:14 PM
Conformation hunters stand to 'model' after they jump and are first placed according to their round then may be moved up or down based on conformation.
The model is a class on its own for pony hunters where ponies are judged based solely on conformation.
Young horses (3 and under) stand on the line to be judged on conformation and movement.
Which are you looking at doing?
Overall I think your horse needs a significant amount of conditioning and shine before he's ready for any horse showing.

findeight
Jun. 4, 2011, 10:11 PM
It's a TB only show next weekend...which is not really enough time to get that coat where most of us want to see it to stand on the line.

Have a suspicion that this will not be the type model class you'd see at a AA or a breeding class. Not that there won't be some nice horses there but it's not Devon.

He'll be OK and probably good enough to not embarrass himself or OP. A little practice on standing up and alot, as in ALOT alot, of time with curry, stiff brush and soft brush followed by a towel or your bare hand will work wonders in about 30 minutes a day if you get on it.

enjoytheride
Jun. 4, 2011, 10:14 PM
I'm wondering if the model class tells you anything about the horse's jumping ability? How do horses that model well do over fences?

CHT
Jun. 4, 2011, 10:21 PM
I had a TB gelding that I showed in the Performance Maturities when he was 4 years old. He won the in hand classes at both shows...but I gotta say, had limited talent. Did 3'0" ok, but that was about where he maxed out at. The mare I also had at the time showed against him at one of the shows (she was 5, and the one show cut them off at 4), and lost to him under saddle and in hand, yet she was by far the better horse and went on to win in 3'6" hunters in the US before being retired as a broodmare.

So no, I do not think that there is a strong correlation between doing well in hand, and doing well in action.

When I showed the gelding, the thing that I think really helped, was that I taught him to stand with his head low. It made his back look more filled out. I could also run really fast for the trot.

findeight
Jun. 4, 2011, 10:22 PM
I'm wondering if the model class tells you anything about the horse's jumping ability? How do horses that model well do over fences?

Some are good, some are not. A well built horse is more likely to be a good mover and good movers are more likely to be good jumpers. But horses do not read that particular analytical theory.

Other then that it's a crap shoot and certainly cannot tell you if they will turn out to be chicken sh*t when faced with a fence or dig and and take off landing any less then perfect distance.

jewll27
Jun. 4, 2011, 10:54 PM
I've always seen green confo. and confo. hunters model before they do any other classes, as is with the pony divisions.

JustThatSimple
Jun. 5, 2011, 08:51 AM
Exactly what finding 8 said- those that are built well- generally move well- those that move well- generally jump well.

However- ever watch that "$100,000" hunter go and you're floored and then in gets to the fence and you're less than impressed?

Unfortunately theory does not always hold true. These types of horses help themselves with the greater general impression. Unfortunately with the incredible amount of dressage breeding we are placing into our hunters there is whispers of the quality of the jump being forfeited with the type and movement the lineage is providing.

Pennywell Bay
Jun. 5, 2011, 08:56 AM
Since the pic was in Jan 2011, hoping he has put on some weight and his coat is shedded out. His overall confo is ok. Practice standing him square, getting his head down a bit and some good elbow grease and off you go!!

cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 6, 2011, 03:34 PM
Thanks everyone! Hes actually a pretty shinny guy, but its been a while since we've had a good bath!!

Definitely plan on using lots of elbow grease to clean him up, luckily not a lot of white to work with. He is still gaining weight, actually has filled in a bit more over the last month. We are working with him now to stand correctly, he just hasn't figured it out yet. But hopefully we can get him to do it correctly soon!

We fed him rice bran over the winter but stopped him by March since the grass was really growing and we knew he would gain the rest of the weight off the grass, he usually does every year.

Thanks again!

I'dRatherBRiding
Jun. 6, 2011, 05:01 PM
CS- he looks a LOT like my mare but with a bit less weight, and I'm still wavering about doing the model at TB Celebration or not. Part of me says what the heck, I don't think I'll embarass myself either way, but the other part says it will be a huge class (I think 30+ entires) so I might be wasting my time. Look forward to seeing you there, keep an eye out for your horse's female twin:)

Xctrygirl
Jun. 6, 2011, 05:40 PM
CS - Man do I not get this....

This is the same horse you rode in the 2' jumpers with draw reins on and even then it wasn't a perfect and smooth round.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305076 (Includes video)

I'd said on the previous thread, that I thought he was better in the hunters with a standing (and no draw reins) and I got told off because he was showing clear "jumper inclinations." And you said:


So the past year I have been working with my horse to become a hunter. He's been doing really well, but deep down we always knew he was a jumper.


And now you're going to take him in a model class? :eek:

Edited to add description of this class:

32. Fasig-Tipton Model Class
Entries will be asked to walk into the ring and line up to be judged on conformation. Entries will then jog one at a time to be judged on way of going and checked for soundness before ribbons are awarded. Proper attire is requested. This class will not count towards any division points nor towards qualifying for the Hunter or Jumper Stake Classes.


Since I am gonna get flamed anyway..... why not skip the show and work on his basics, and your communication with him and all the valid riding points others made in the previous thread???

I am not saying you shouldn't have fun and compete him, but it's gotta be confusing for him to go from hunters to jumpers with draw reins, and then a model class on the "line." Especially when every video you have available online shows clearly that he and you are not established and perfect in your communication with one another under tack.

So why compete and throw good money after bad? Why not wait for another jumper show and train up to it in the meantime. Or hell, take him in that 2'7" jumper division here. You'd probably enjoy that more.... especially if you lose the draw reins.



~Emily

cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 7, 2011, 10:17 AM
CS- he looks a LOT like my mare but with a bit less weight, and I'm still wavering about doing the model at TB Celebration or not. Part of me says what the heck, I don't think I'll embarass myself either way, but the other part says it will be a huge class (I think 30+ entires) so I might be wasting my time. Look forward to seeing you there, keep an eye out for your horse's female twin:)

Will definitely look for you!!! :) Good luck to you too!


Xctrygirl- We started with the hunters to teach him to listen and understand that he needs to whoa when told. Hes done wonderfully. We knew from the beginning that he was a Jumper but he needed to know that jumpers isn't just about speed. So we trained as a hunter and had a decent career. That show I was in was our First jumper so and we weren't suppose to be perfect, that's the whole point of schooling shows...to get out there to learn and get better, and that's what we did. For not having a perfect round coming out of the 2' division and the two 2'3' divisions with 2 champ ribbons and a reserve champ ribbon I know we weren't perfect and smooth but what can you expect from a first show. He'd never seen fences like that and been let go to have fun which he did...we're just learning.

Btw sorry I never answered the last post...had no idea people had posted additionally to it. But I know that I am a handsy rider but much better than I have been. We use the draw reins to correct his head tossing, it gets really bad before a fence. I dont keep them tight when I ride but only really use them when he wont come back to me and tries to toss his head above the bit and ignore me. I dont need them on the flat and I dont plan on keeping him in them forever. But he has a terrible head tossing habit in the Jumper ring cause hes wants to go. if I let him he would gallop the whole course

I thank you for the advice but the model class for me isn't a competitive thing and if there are a lot of horses involved I will probably not do it. Its fun and different. He wont get confused and gets it at home. I do if for fun. Im not in it for points or ribbons, but I love the show series and not only do I volunteer for the event but I like to support events that I like.

SkipChange
Jun. 7, 2011, 11:05 AM
I thank you for the advice but the model class for me isn't a competitive thing and if there are a lot of horses involved I will probably not do it. Its fun and different. He wont get confused and gets it at home. I do if for fun. Im not in it for points or ribbons, but I love the show series and not only do I volunteer for the event but I like to support events that I like.

Good for you! I help put on one of our local show series and it is SO much fun.

wanderlust
Jun. 7, 2011, 11:06 AM
But I know that I am a handsy rider but much better than I have been. We use the draw reins to correct his head tossing, it gets really bad before a fence. I dont keep them tight when I ride but only really use them when he wont come back to me and tries to toss his head above the bit and ignore me. I dont need them on the flat and I dont plan on keeping him in them forever. But he has a terrible head tossing habit in the Jumper ring cause hes wants to go. if I let him he would gallop the whole course Why do you ride any differently in the jumper ring than the hunter ring? The fences are tiny, you can stay off his back and hunt around the baby jumper ring just like you would the hunter ring. He tosses his head and runs because you grind on him with your seat, and then don't let go of his face. He doesn't want to "go" because it is the jumper ring. Horses don't know the difference, they only know a difference in how they are ridden.

Since you are, as you stated, "handsy", why are you using draw reins? Put a standing martingale on him, their entire purpose is to keep a horse from flinging his head.

I'm not saying all of this to be mean, but because I think if you corrected a couple of really basic things in your riding, you and your horse would have a lot less issues.

cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 8, 2011, 10:58 AM
Why do you ride any differently in the jumper ring than the hunter ring? The fences are tiny, you can stay off his back and hunt around the baby jumper ring just like you would the hunter ring. He tosses his head and runs because you grind on him with your seat, and then don't let go of his face. He doesn't want to "go" because it is the jumper ring. Horses don't know the difference, they only know a difference in how they are ridden.

Since you are, as you stated, "handsy", why are you using draw reins? Put a standing martingale on him, their entire purpose is to keep a horse from flinging his head.

I'm not saying all of this to be mean, but because I think if you corrected a couple of really basic things in your riding, you and your horse would have a lot less issues.

Thanks wanderlust!! I definitely dont take it mean at all. Actually the martingale does nothing for him anymore, even when we crank it down and then his starts bunny hopping. However we are starting to learn that if I let go and sit up he doesnt toss the head so we are definitely getting there. I only use draw reins when we jump and only as a corrective if he tosses his head for no reason, otherwise I ride in them typically loose.

I didnt mean that I ride differently in the hunter ring versus the jumper ring I guess I was trying to say that him and I are more relaxed in the Jumper ring than the hunter ring...cant explain it but its definitely evident when we ride. It might be because he loves the jumpers and I know he does so I let him go better. While in the hunter ring I hold him back to get the strides when he easily could take one out and thus the head tossing begins.

But we are definitely working on it!!! We are TONS better now than we use to be and definitely have a ways to go. But the last two weeks something clicked and I sit up better and let him go as long as we have a spot.

I'dRatherBRiding
Jun. 8, 2011, 01:31 PM
Lighten up XCtry Girl! TB Celebration is as much a schooling show as it is a fun way for TB owners to get together and compete against each other. I really have NEVER heard anyone say before that a model class on the "line" as you say is confusing, and I don't know what the heck you're doing to your horse that makes you think it would be!

I'm going to do the model at TB Celebration because A) entries & stalls are cheap enough, so why not? and B) because my horse is green as well, and I don't want to overface her, but I think the model class is a good way for her to get some additional show exposure. I have a feeling CS is in a similar boat!

cswoodlandfairy
Jun. 8, 2011, 01:39 PM
Lighten up XCtry Girl! TB Celebration is as much a schooling show as it is a fun way for TB owners to get together and compete against each other. I really have NEVER heard anyone say before that a model class on the "line" as you say is confusing, and I don't know what the heck you're doing to your horse that makes you think it would be!

I'm going to do the model at TB Celebration because A) entries & stalls are cheap enough, so why not? and B) because my horse is green as well, and I don't want to overface her, but I think the model class is a good way for her to get some additional show exposure. I have a feeling CS is in a similar boat!

Most definitely!!! :) Anything that is fun and gives him exposure to a ring setting works for me :)

Hopefully see you there!?! Come say hi to us, we're in barn 7! Our maroon trunk with Forrest's name should be there! :)

I'dRatherBRiding
Jun. 8, 2011, 01:44 PM
Hopefully we're in barn 7 too! Trying to be there around 6pm tomorrow so I'll look for you. It's my first one so I'm very excited...can you tell I'm not getting any real work done today?