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View Full Version : EHV-1, show cancellation



chunky munky
May. 30, 2011, 07:27 PM
I am curious about how you all feel about most shows in the west coast and CA being cancelled. There is one show management concern that has not cancelled their shows in the concerned area, but will not refund any fees to those that will not ship to the show due to concern about the virus. Any opinions about this?

Janet
May. 30, 2011, 08:11 PM
There is one show management concern that has not cancelled their shows in the concerned area, but will not refund any fees to those that will not ship to the show due to concern about the virus. Any opinions about this?
That is the gamble you take when you pre-enter.

chunky munky
May. 30, 2011, 09:08 PM
That is the gamble you take when you pre-enter.

I disagree. When the majority of shows in that area have cancelled and refunded most of fees I feel that it is not appropriate .Perhaps we should teach all of our exhibitors to never enter before the cut off. Oy yoi yoi!

EAY
May. 30, 2011, 09:13 PM
How will this affect people on the west coast qualifying for national finals? This must be lousy for those in their last junior year trying to get to Medal or Maclay finals.

chunky munky
May. 30, 2011, 09:18 PM
Reality is that most west coasters are here at Devon that really care about coming east for finals. They can still qualify at home if they haven't yet. But I think that we should all care a little more about the virus than qualifying.

horsepoor
May. 31, 2011, 12:08 AM
I kind of wondered about this myself, knowing some folks that have opted out of going to some larger shows because of EHV concerns. Those shows aren't cheap, so scratching with no refund would be a chunk of change. Curious if a vet slip can be written for such a situation -- I mean, really, does it have to say the details of why the horse can't participate? I've had vets just say something along the lines of "Dobbin can't participate in the show on [date]" and that has sufficed (on letterhead and signed). So I bet if my vet was telling me that I shouldn't go to a show because of the risk of exposure, he'd write me a slip like that.

Of course, when your horse prefer to handwalk and stall rest rather than show, you don't worry about this stuff much! My EHV fear is just keeping me from the vet clinic right now...!

Peggy
May. 31, 2011, 12:22 AM
There are two managers of A shows in Southern California that I've heard are still running shows, and one of them is known for not canceling shows.

The Memorial Day Classic show was light enough in entries that they chopped a day off it. It will be interesting to see what happens to the series that starts at the Oaks next week. In the dressage world, the Flintridge Dressage (http://www.dressagedaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6237:the-show-goes-on-in-california-dressage-at-flintridge-cdi-yj&catid=395:dressage-in-california-2011) show ran, but the days looked really short and they really only had two rings. This is a show that is generally filled to capacity with three rings. That show manager used to be in partnership with the Memorial Day Classic manager. The link is to an article about the alleged "dedicated" horse owners being the ones that showed.

Is there a USEF rule that distinguishes between what a manager must refund for a cancelled show vs. one where the exhibitor elects not to show? Janet would probably know!

flyracing
May. 31, 2011, 12:40 AM
Is there a USEF rule that distinguishes between what a manager must refund for a cancelled show vs. one where the exhibitor elects not to show? Janet would probably know!

Protocol for refunds for both illness/injury and show cancellation are covered in the show's prizelist. Will include dates, note required, ect. Usually, there is a line that says, "no refund for show cancellation due to matters outside of managements control" or "refund minus stabling in case of cancellation".

Honestly, I'd rather have a show be able to come back next year because a single person/business/group hasn't been bankrupted by the previous years canceled shows (most of their costs don't go away, just because people don't show up). But, at the same time, if I was still willing to show and the show was canceled without refund, I would be seriously bummed!

RanchoAdobe
May. 31, 2011, 12:49 AM
Chunky Monkey- I agree, I feel it was poor form to not offer any stall/deposit fees back for Memorial Day. I know I was bummed to lose $300.

However, it is definitely not the case that those serious about going east for finals are at Devon. The majority of the west coasters heading east for finals are not at Devon (none of those at the top of the Ronnie Mutch were at Devon). The majority of west coasters at Devon are those with hunters.

RugBug
May. 31, 2011, 01:11 AM
IMHO, I don't think any shows should be running right now in affected states...and I think show managers should be supporting that by cancelling/refunding. 'Course I also believe it's incredibly irresponsible to take your horse anywhere right now....but that's just me, I guess. I'd rather miss a show, lose some money, etc and not have to worry than to go, worry. And if something where to happen to my horse (and then others horses because of mine)? Not sure I could handle that guilt.

gottagrey
May. 31, 2011, 01:12 AM
while it would be a bummer to lose fees/money - those monies could be a mere pittance compared to a loss one could suffer w/an outbreak of EHV at their barn/their horses.

And let's hope that those traveling from infected areas practice safe protocols so it stays relatively contained

chunky munky
May. 31, 2011, 01:32 AM
Chunky Monkey- I agree, I feel it was poor form to not offer any stall/deposit fees back for Memorial Day. I know I was bummed to lose $300.

However, it is definitely not the case that those serious about going east for finals are at Devon. The majority of the west coasters heading east for finals are not at Devon (none of those at the top of the Ronnie Mutch were at Devon). The majority of west coasters at Devon are those with hunters.

Chuckle.. I was one of the judges for the Ronnie Mutch West Coast. I am aware who is here or not :-)

horsepoor
May. 31, 2011, 01:46 AM
With shows that cancel, do they have to give back all the money? I noticed that one show here (a dressage show, so different rules, I suppose) kept a portion -- just the $20 office fee -- and refunded the rest when they cancelled, and it made me wonder on the hunter shows. Or, for that matter, the cutting shows that got cancelled.

fourmares
May. 31, 2011, 02:28 AM
From what I know the EHV-1 outbreak is contained to those horses that were at the Western Reining Championship show in Ogden, UT and the barns where they live. I think if we all take reasonable precautions we can return to showing now.

LaBonnieBon
May. 31, 2011, 07:04 AM
But I think that we should all care a little more about the virus than qualifying.

AMEN!!!!

EAY
May. 31, 2011, 07:54 AM
Reality is that most west coasters are here at Devon that really care about coming east for finals. They can still qualify at home if they haven't yet. But I think that we should all care a little more about the virus than qualifying.


I certainly did not mean to imply that qualifying was more important than containing the virus but rather than it would be tough to be a 17-year-old hoping to qualify for finals and having to sit out the season.

I don't anything about the west coast show scene, so I don't know when people start coming east. Maybe some of the bigger barns will be doing so earlier this year or perhaps some of those who are here for Devon will stay.

It does seem though like this could have a major economic impact on the industry. Are shows also being cancelled in Oregon and Washington state? How about Canada?

netg
May. 31, 2011, 08:46 AM
From what I know the EHV-1 outbreak is contained to those horses that were at the Western Reining Championship show in Ogden, UT and the barns where they live. I think if we all take reasonable precautions we can return to showing now.

Saturday there was a new case reported which was unrelated to the Ogden show.

The official reported numbers are quite low, but at least in AZ there are people claiming they have lost horses to EHV-1 who haven't had the testing done. Whether that's due to trying to avoid making any official lists online, or not wanting to spend the money I don't know. But about two weeks ago the situation in AZ changed enough that through discussing what they had seen several vets in the area changed from optimistic about the outlook to very cautious in how we handle our horses because of EHV-1. It's possible CA is different, but there is absolutely nothing requiring folks report all cases of EHV-1 around here, and I'm guessing there are the possibilities of unreported cases in CA, too.

Janet
May. 31, 2011, 09:13 AM
Is there a USEF rule that distinguishes between what a manager must refund for a cancelled show vs. one where the exhibitor elects not to show? Janet would probably know!
Cancelled shows are covered here-

GR901.11. Statement as to entry fees, prizes offered in each class and registration fees pursuant
to GR206 which the Federation is assessing certain participants who are non-members of
the Federation. If a licensed competition’s prize list does not state whether or not the
competition will refund entry fees in the event of cancellation of classes due to severe
weather or other emergency, refunds of entry fees must be made upon written request by
the exhibitor within 30 days of the cancellation. See GR832
So it depends on what the prize list says.

In addition, there are separate rules for the USEF fees- I know they apply to eventing and I THINK they apply to all competitions, but I need to track down the actual rule. Basically, the show management is not allowed to keep the USEF fees (incuding the drug fee). They have to EITHER
-Send the fees to USEF
or
-Return the fees to the exhibitor
I'll update wheen I find the specific language.

Life is Good 2
May. 31, 2011, 10:12 AM
Do shows have insurance to cover their basic costs if an outbreak like this occurs or if weather stops the show?

horsepoor
May. 31, 2011, 12:39 PM
Do shows have insurance to cover their basic costs if an outbreak like this occurs or if weather stops the show?

I wondered about this also.


Originally posted by fourmares: From what I know the EHV-1 outbreak is contained to those horses that were at the Western Reining Championship show in Ogden, UT and the barns where they live.

It was a cutting show, not reining (I know to some that isn't much of a difference...). And while the cases so far have for the most part been linked to the horses at that show, the only test of how far it spreads will be time -- we are only just now seeing the secondary cases pop up, so let's hope that soon we really can say it has been confined to one group. After the holiday weekend, when little was reported, I expect to see a bump up in the numbers today -- WA is at 8 confirmed (up from 7 on Fri) and not sure that OR has updated theirs yet.

Happyhooves
May. 31, 2011, 12:47 PM
We opted out of a show this weekend with a couple of horses and lost a hunk of hard-earned deposit $$. Ouch. It all hurt--no refunds, not being able to show on a sunny, pleasant temps. beautiful weekend when the horses were sound, schooled up, and going well, not liking that people who were depending upon making a little money (braiders, trailer guys, vendors, etc.) in an already down economy were now denied yet more income. Of course, how can anyone like ANY aspect of this whole virus problem? But I wandered over to spectate at the show and bought a couple of things just to help support the vendors and mgt. even in a small way so that they hopefully can carry on and afford to hold future shows and bring their merchandise. I do think I will avoid putting down deposits in the future when possible because this is the second show recently where I've paid a sizable chunk of change up front and not set hoof in the show ring due to unforeseen circumstances.

Janet
May. 31, 2011, 12:49 PM
Do shows have insurance to cover their basic costs if an outbreak like this occurs or if weather stops the show?
I don't know about horse shows, but some of the Horse Trials (eventing) have looked into it, and they would have to raise the entry fees a LOT to cover the insurance premium.

whatnow
May. 31, 2011, 12:54 PM
It is a difficult situation for all. Many of the larger barns in California, Arizona, Utah etc are now under quarantine. No horses are allowed into the facility. If you choose to take your horse out to the shows, they will not allow you back into the barn until the quarantine is lifted.

You could be homeless if you choose to go and show for two or three weeks depending on how the virus is contained. Some trainers are planning on being on the road all summer so they will leave and show and hope that they have the virus under control once they want to return home. For others, in this economy, they can't risk the uncertainity of not having a stall for their horse when they want to return home.

For some trainers, they are looking at this as a jackpot of immense proportions. Imagine being able to keep your clients on the road all summer! Daycare and showing bills galore!

TheHorseProblem
May. 31, 2011, 09:14 PM
From what I know the EHV-1 outbreak is contained to those horses that were at the Western Reining Championship show in Ogden, UT and the barns where they live. I think if we all take reasonable precautions we can return to showing now.

this^

I spoke with a vet for one of the shows ahd this vet said there was really no danger, because the outbreak was so limited in scope.

Here's what the Cal FDA has on their web page:

Recommendations for Horse Show/Event Managers Regarding EHV-1 Biosecurity Procedures

(These biosecurity guidelines have been developed, based on currently available information, by CDFA veterinarians and the faculty at the School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis, CA, to minimize the risk of transmission of infectious diseases at public equestrian events. If the situation changes, these and other guidelines will be modified as appropriate.)
When the current EHV-1 outbreak began, horse owners were initially advised to avoid nonessential transport of their animals to reduce the risk of exposure to, or spread of the virus among, the horse population. Now that we have obtained more information through ongoing testing, reporting and monitoring, we have concluded that the EHV-1 infection outbreak is centered around horses that were present at the National Cutting Horse Association’s Western National Championships (NCHA) held at the Golden Spike Event Center in Ogden, Utah from April 30th to May 8th. and/or the Kern County Cutting Event in Bakersfield, CA on May 13th. This includes cutting horses that did not attend either of the above events but have subsequently come into contact with horses returning from those events.
Based on what is known today, we are suggesting that managers of horse shows or events occurring in California during the coming weeks incorporate the following biosecurity measures to minimize the risk for all participants:

Event managers should create a short document for participants to sign upon arrival at the show grounds to confirm that their horses, mules, and burros attending the show/event have not attended or had prior contact with horses from the NCHA Championships in Ogden, Utah and/or the Kern County Cutting Event in Bakersfield, CA, or been on the same premises with horses that have returned from these events. Horses that have attended, or been exposed to horses returning from either event will not be allowed to enter the show grounds.
Establish a “No Fever” policy for horses attending the event. Give the participants prior notice of the new “No Fever” policy before they arrive at the show grounds. Provide instructions for obtaining the horse’s temperature and an index card on which to record temperature readings for each horse.
a. All horses will have temperatures taken twice daily and results will be posted on front of the stall/pen for inspection.
b. Any horse will be subject to random temperature check by the show veterinarian or designated member of the veterinary staff during the event.
c. Any horse with a fever of 102°F or greater will be removed from the event and premises immediately (i.e. within 2 hours of detection of fever).
d. If the owner cannot move the horse off the premises, a professional horse hauler contracted by the event will remove the horse to a designated isolation area at the owner’s expense.
It is understood that some (most) horses with a fever will not have EHV-1; however, in the interest of conducting a safe event under the current circumstances, the no fever policy will be enforced. If you do not wish to comply with these safety measures please do not attend the event.

CuteArabHunter
May. 31, 2011, 10:09 PM
The link is to an article about the alleged "dedicated" horse owners being the ones that showed.


Oh, this makes me so mad!!!! "Dedicated" eh? IMO it's more like concerned with your own wishes that the horse's safety and well being!!:mad::mad::mad: !!!