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RedDressagepony
May. 26, 2011, 02:45 PM
I am Adult Amature that recently purchased a horse that was considered to be AA perfect. This has turned out not to be the case and the horse is total different from the horse I tried out prior to buying. Two months have passed with no improvement, in fact some areas have gotten worse. When I purchased the horse I signed a agreement that stated "Buyer accepts the purchase horse AS Is and is subject to any and all faults or defects which may exist at present or may appear at a later date".

Now I am lost how to proceed, the previous offered a portion of my money back but not all. I feel now it will be difficult to re-sell the horse with these current problems. Any advice??

Calhoun
May. 26, 2011, 03:25 PM
I'm giving you a big cyber ((hug)), welcome to the club. Sincerely, I hope you can recover your initial investment. In my case, should have given the money to my favorite charity, it would have been better spent and given me great satisfaction instead heartache . . . not to mention the money to fix the problem, then sell the horse at a loss. Big sigh . . .

Valentina_32926
May. 26, 2011, 03:35 PM
Did you have vet pull blood during pre-ourchase exam? Perhaps horse was drugged. If so you have a legal "leg" to stand on.

Have you addressed what could be causing the 'new' issues? Is horse OK for your trainer/ a better rider?

If not something like saddle fit could be the issue. Perhaps you could borrow the saddle you test rode horse in and see if horse acts better. If horse wasn't durgged during test ride than I don't believe you have any legal recourse, but I am not a lawyer.

So only other thing to do is spend time and money and try to figure out why horse is acting differently than when you rode it initially. Did you ride horse in an environment DIFFERENT than it's "usual" environment? If not then maybe haul horse to old barn and ride it again, seeing how it reacts to being "back home". That will make it easier to borrow previous saddle to - just mnake certain you ride in current saddle in old environment before trying old saddle - since you want to figure out what's causing the issue you need to only alter 1 part of the equation at a time.

johnnysauntie
May. 26, 2011, 03:35 PM
I bought a lovely horse from my trainer, and within short order had un-installed half the buttons and had installed a bunch of new - and bad - behaviors. It wasn't the horse's fault, it was mine. I redoubled my efforts, got my act together on the ground, and was able to turn the situation around.

It wasn't terribly fun but I'm a much better horsewoman for it, and wow, did I learn a lot.

A more extreme example occurred when a woman - with less experience than me - bought a gelding from a trainer. He was cute and seemed like a good boy. But he took advantage of the fact that she was a total pushover and doormat and became downright hateful, nasty and aggressive.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that ammies like me (and maybe you? I don't want to offend) aren't pros - we miss things pros do, we let horses get away with more, we don't ride as well, et cetera.

Consider putting the two of you into full training with a trainer who will work on not just your riding , but your horsemanship.

Good luck. Been there. Not fun.

Velvet
May. 26, 2011, 04:14 PM
Did you have a trainer look at the horse with you and try it out? I'd lean on them first and get their help. If not, you either have to get help from one, or sell it. Selling it back to the original person for less money is a lesson learned and might be the best option. You don't want to keep paying more for the horse in board and other care. Cut your losses if that's the case.

2tempe
May. 26, 2011, 05:33 PM
I had a similar situation about 9 years ago. Horse rode well in his home indoor over a two day trial. Got him to my place and over the next several months things began to deteriorate. He would bolt on a lunge line, spin (fast 180) for no apparent reason, broke out of cross ties, etc. Note that issues were not just under saddle...My trainer, who was older and tiny got to the point where she did not trust him enough to ride. Had a "cowboy" on him a couple times - this guy broke racehorses and others and was a kind but firm rider - he almost got tossed. Long story and after about a year the seller took him back and put him up for sale again. I lost about 50% of what I paid plus various training expenses, but was glad to see him gone.

Fast forward about 5 years and I met the owner of his sire (not the seller). She had heard of him, had his early history and said she heard that he had been pushed hard to be a jumper, possibly to the point of abuse, before he was passed on to the person I bought him from.
If I were you, I'd take the offer and move on...........

RedDressagepony
May. 26, 2011, 06:26 PM
More Info:

The horse was evaluated by me and my trainer before purchase, then almost immediately (5 days later) after purchasing put into full training with my experienced young horse trainer. The naughtiness started from day one but we just thought he needed time to adjust to the new environment and such. For the last two months the horse has been ridden by a professional with me only riding a few times under watch from said professional.

The professional is confused by the whole thing and tried to address these issues to the previous trainer/seller. The seller became very defensive that the horse never did these things which we find it hard to believe he has changed so much.

We are setting up an appointment with a vet to do a once over before continuing.

TheBarnRules
May. 26, 2011, 06:38 PM
When I purchased the horse I signed a agreement that stated "Buyer accepts the purchase horse AS Is and is subject to any and all faults or defects which may exist at present or may appear at a later date".

This language is very straightforward and unambiguous so unless there is something else in the contract that might give you an out (and you should have an attorney review it) or you can prove the horse was drugged when you tried him, I don't think you have any recourse against the seller.

xQHDQ
May. 26, 2011, 06:41 PM
Although I feel for you, horse behavior can change due to a variety of issues. It's not always a rider/training problem. Sometimes a change in feed or turnout situation can have a drastic change in behavior. I second people who say take a look at your tack. Saddle fit is a likely cause of certain bad behaviors. We had one horse who moved stalls and he became horrible. The reason was that his new neighbor hated him and was tormenting him all night, so he got no sleep. We changed his stall back to where it was and his behavior returned to the docile horse we knew. Unless the horse was drugged when you tried him, I don't think you will be able to do anything since your contract said "as is" (which is standard, BTW).
Good luck.

cnm161
May. 26, 2011, 07:32 PM
Turnout, too. In the summer, my horse is a peach that anyone can handle, and most people can ride. An aside-- I'm not sure he'll ever get to the point when just anyone can get on him.

But in the winter, when turnout is limited by the weather, he's back to fire-breathing dragon status. And when I don't have a choice, I ride through the antics and by mid-March he's better. But I'd rather just go the path of least resistance and have him go outside.

So, there are a lot of reasons for an apparent personality change.

NJRider
May. 27, 2011, 02:27 PM
I bought a lovely horse from my trainer, and within short order had un-installed half the buttons and had installed a bunch of new - and bad - behaviors. It wasn't the horse's fault, it was mine. I redoubled my efforts, got my act together on the ground, and was able to turn the situation around.

It wasn't terribly fun but I'm a much better horsewoman for it, and wow, did I learn a lot.

A more extreme example occurred when a woman - with less experience than me - bought a gelding from a trainer. He was cute and seemed like a good boy. But he took advantage of the fact that she was a total pushover and doormat and became downright hateful, nasty and aggressive.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that ammies like me (and maybe you? I don't want to offend) aren't pros - we miss things pros do, we let horses get away with more, we don't ride as well, et cetera.

Consider putting the two of you into full training with a trainer who will work on not just your riding , but your horsemanship.

Good luck. Been there. Not fun.

THIS..... and this is why I ask more questions about the rider than they do about my horse for sale. 90% of my prospective buyers have grossly misrepresented their riding ability. I have a NICE but young horse for sale and ALL prospective buyers can barely ride a circle and have no seat. One person at least cancelled before coming after telling me she wanted a push button horse that "will teach her how to ride"...sorry, this does not happen. Horses deteriorate to the level of the rider, as the poster above related.
Did you buy a young or green horse? Really look at what is DIFFERENT- tack, turnout, feed, how handled, etc. I would think the seller would want a good fit for their horse and will be willing to make suggestions as to the cause of the issue.

mickeydoodle
May. 27, 2011, 03:20 PM
I feel your pain, been there and done sold the horse for half of its original price. I would take the offer.

shawneeAcres
May. 27, 2011, 03:36 PM
I am a VERY upfront and honest seller when I market horses. Several years ago I sold a lovely 6 yr old mare who had been bred and raised/trained by an extremely good friend of mine. This mare was SUPER quiet and almost a "packer". Defintely great mind. People came from NY, tried her, stayed and tried her a couple times, vetted her while they were here and did draw blood. I found out about two months later they were having ALL KINDS of issues. They even tested teh blood, which was absolutely clean. I gave them some ideas/things to work on etc. Prior owner/breeder was quite concerned, but didn't feel it was her responsibility to take horse back. Fast foward another year and heard from them. Turns out, they moved barns and trainers and they LOVED the mare! She went right back to being show she was when she left me. SOMETHING at the other barn, the way the trainer rode her, SOEMTHING had her all out of kilter! They adore her now.

jenm
May. 27, 2011, 03:55 PM
This language is very straightforward and unambiguous so unless there is something else in the contract that might give you an out (and you should have an attorney review it) or you can prove the horse was drugged when you tried him, I don't think you have any recourse against the seller.

I agree with consulting with an attorney. Depending on what state you are in, you may have legal recourse. A friend of mine sold a horse with similar wording in the contract. The horse turned up lame 8 months later, and the buyer took my friend to small claims court and WON!! :eek::yes:

My friend had to buy the horse back for the purchase price.

Sister Margarita
May. 27, 2011, 08:13 PM
THIS..... and this is why I ask more questions about the rider than they do about my horse for sale. 90% of my prospective buyers have grossly misrepresented their riding ability. I have a NICE but young horse for sale and ALL prospective buyers can barely ride a circle and have no seat. One person at least cancelled before coming after telling me she wanted a push button horse that "will teach her how to ride"...sorry, this does not happen. Horses deteriorate to the level of the rider, as the poster above related.
Did you buy a young or green horse? Really look at what is DIFFERENT- tack, turnout, feed, how handled, etc. I would think the seller would want a good fit for their horse and will be willing to make suggestions as to the cause of the issue.

This and what Johnnysauntie said. Sometimes we have to be really open to this. So many horses that I have purchased have taken close to a year to get in sync with the changes that result from being sold. And, we have to put things back together. It doesn't always work, like an arranged marriage or mailorder bride, I guess, but the fault may not be entirely with the seller. It is possible the horse was doing well before it was sold, and the new training did not click. Great that there is a trainer here to help OP with the situation.
It may mean selling, but sometimes things don't work out.
I hope it does work out for you, whatever the solution. Good luck!

atlatl
May. 27, 2011, 10:31 PM
I bought a lovely horse from my trainer, and within short order had un-installed half the buttons and had installed a bunch of new - and bad - behaviors. It wasn't the horse's fault, it was mine. I redoubled my efforts, got my act together on the ground, and was able to turn the situation around.

It wasn't terribly fun but I'm a much better horsewoman for it, and wow, did I learn a lot.

...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that ammies like me (and maybe you? I don't want to offend) aren't pros - we miss things pros do, we let horses get away with more, we don't ride as well, et cetera.

Consider putting the two of you into full training with a trainer who will work on not just your riding , but your horsemanship.

Good luck. Been there. Not fun.

Amen sister!!