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Jleegriffith
May. 23, 2011, 09:12 PM
Must be the time for buttercups. We have had our soil tested and did add some lime but overall it was just a little bit off. It seems like we have had a bloom of buttercups. My pastures are not overgrazed and are rotated often. I just replanted the pastures not in use but the darn buttercups are taking over. How do we kill them w/o killing other grass.

We planted max q fescue with a clover.

Tamara in TN
May. 23, 2011, 09:43 PM
if the new growth has not broken the surface you can use 24D...
otherwise, buttercup and sheep sorrel have to be killed when they are less than 3 inches tall (once you see the color it's too late as they say)...normally mid mar-april to really waste them

Tamara

chicamux
May. 24, 2011, 07:12 AM
I used Milestone on my pastures this spring and was amazed at the total kill rate of the buttercups. I have a neighbor with cattle that never does anything about the weeds in his pastures and the buttercups at my place have steadily worsened. I don't really know if the seed can drift to my place or not but I prefer to blame him rather than my own laziness.

Anyway, I finally broke down and bought a tow behind spray at SC for $259 and a Qt of Milestone, recommended for equine pastures for broadleaf weed control. I added a surfectant as suggested to get better adherence to the leaves and went to town spraying. the buttercups die immediately and the curly dock and other weeds took a few days longer. The grass is fine and it looks like some clover survived.

I was happy with the spray and the width of the spray from the small boom allowed me to get a decent overlap as I crisscrossed each small field on my compact tractor.

chicamuxen

LauraKY
May. 24, 2011, 08:24 AM
You want to be very careful with Milestone. If used for hay that ends up in compost and perhaps even horse manure, it will stunt and kill vegetable crops (tomatoes and beans particularly) for up to 4 years later. I believe it's either been pulled off the market in the UK or they are working on it. Just a heads up.

CatOnLap
May. 24, 2011, 11:13 AM
we are not allowed to use poisons on our land here in green green lalaland. I spent the weekend digging buttercups out from under all my fruit trees. Nasty things. They are in the burn pile now. a tractor bucket full. And my arms shoulder and back are sore.

JoZ
May. 24, 2011, 04:32 PM
I'm planning to buy a tow-behind sprayer this weekend and start attacking them. We have a product the name of which is eluding me but it's a broadleaf herbicide and the horses can go back out after a couple of days. I can't imagine they will eat dead buttercups when they don't even eat live ones, but I'm wondering what I'll do to get rid of the debris. We are going to experiment, starting with a small area.

Tamara, when the buttercups are 3 inches tall or less, our pastures are apt to be under 3 inches of water or more! At least that's the way it has been the last couple of years with flooding and lingering groundwater. The buttercups are now knee-high and flowering but I can't believe it wouldn't help to do SOMETHING. Again, as I said, we'll experiment. Spray, toss down some lime, leave the pasture for 2-3 weeks?

tucktaway
May. 24, 2011, 04:47 PM
I've had Crossbow suggested...

cllane1
May. 24, 2011, 04:59 PM
Hubby sprayed our 4 acre pasture (by hand, poor guy!) with 2-4-D this spring and we've had great results. This was after the buttercups had already bloomed. They are now completely gone, and the grass does not seem to have suffered (it's suffering from drought, but that's another story).

I'll see if I can get him over here to post his method. I don't know if he was spraying just the tops, or the roots, or what.

Calvincrowe
May. 24, 2011, 05:08 PM
Crossbow will work, sort of. In the land of permanent wet (PNW), buttercups are a perpetual nemesis. Round up kind of makes them (and daisies) look a little peculiar for a few days, then they perk back up. I haven't found anything that will really kill the little bass-turds.

Mr. CC is hoping for a 2-3 day stretch of dry weather (ha!) so he can spray the daisies, bcup and blackberries all in one go. He uses Crossbow and a surfactant, plus a dye, so he can see where he's been.

JoZ
May. 24, 2011, 05:08 PM
We have a product the name of which is eluding me but it's a broadleaf herbicide and the horses can go back out after a couple of days.


I've had Crossbow suggested...

That would be the name that was eluding me!

redsky
May. 31, 2011, 10:32 PM
Buttercups have taken over my horses' paddock too. Any suggestions for non-toxic/safe ways to get rid of them? I only have the one paddock, so I can't use anything that might be toxic to the horses. I started pulling them up in the top half of the paddock where they are more sparse, but the bottom half is pretty much covered and it seems pretty futile...

artisticgold
May. 31, 2011, 11:03 PM
WOW, I was just going to post the same question. They sure are pretty, I've never seen so much yellow in my fields. I don't want to use anything toxic to the horses, but they sure can't be allowed to just continue to grow and thrive. This is the wettest spring on record here by far, so bumper crops of weeds and bugs for sure.

Flying Hearts
May. 31, 2011, 11:59 PM
I have the same problem - when they're less than 3", my fields are waaaay too wet to get into. So how do we kill them after they are tall and taking over??

Mrs.ChickenBritches
Jun. 1, 2011, 11:00 AM
Crossbow will work, sort of. In the land of permanent wet (PNW), buttercups are a perpetual nemesis. Round up kind of makes them (and daisies) look a little peculiar for a few days, then they perk back up. I haven't found anything that will really kill the little bass-turds.

Mr. CC is hoping for a 2-3 day stretch of dry weather (ha!) so he can spray the daisies, bcup and blackberries all in one go. He uses Crossbow and a surfactant, plus a dye, so he can see where he's been.

I would love to know how to get rid of blackberries! It has to be non-toxic to horses though because I dont have anywhere to keep my gelding other than his paddock right now. I tried Round-up that said it was for blackberries. They just laughed.

Alagirl
Jun. 1, 2011, 11:08 AM
I'm planning to buy a tow-behind sprayer this weekend and start attacking them. We have a product the name of which is eluding me but it's a broadleaf herbicide and the horses can go back out after a couple of days. I can't imagine they will eat dead buttercups when they don't even eat live ones, but I'm wondering what I'll do to get rid of the debris. We are going to experiment, starting with a small area.

Tamara, when the buttercups are 3 inches tall or less, our pastures are apt to be under 3 inches of water or more! At least that's the way it has been the last couple of years with flooding and lingering groundwater. The buttercups are now knee-high and flowering but I can't believe it wouldn't help to do SOMETHING. Again, as I said, we'll experiment. Spray, toss down some lime, leave the pasture for 2-3 weeks?


Last I looked (it's been a couple decades) Buttercups were indicator plants.

You might to best by having a soil sample done, maybe airate the pasture/paddock.

As I recall (I could be wrong on that) Buttercups like a somewhat sour dense soil.

Calvincrowe
Jun. 1, 2011, 02:21 PM
ChickenBritches-

A non-toxic way to kill blackberries, would be goats, applied repeatedly, combined with human and clippers.

We've safely used Crossbow and a spreader/sticker (helps keep herbicide on leaves for better uptake) in pastures/paddocks. Horses off for a few days is safest. It kills blackberries very effectively. Seriously, they require heavyduty killer. They spread by suckering and by seed. They are spawn of the devil.

poltroon
Jun. 1, 2011, 03:33 PM
Blackberries: mow regularly. The good thing is that the horses will eat them when they are young and tender. Goats are even better, but then you have goats. I'd rather have blackberries.

CatOnLap
Jun. 1, 2011, 05:23 PM
at least blackberries are good to eat! nASty buttercups have no such redeeming feature.

The best cure for blackberries is a bulldozer and a burn pile. That may go for buttercups too. spent another morning diggingthem out- this time from the rose garden adn potato patch. That would be two tractor buckets full now.

JoZ
Jun. 2, 2011, 01:13 AM
This is a slight detour; I hope someone is still reading! In the last several points I've seen three things listed as having been put in with the herbicide:

- surfactant
- dye
- a spreader/sticker

I'm wondering if (1) and (3) are similar? I can see why something to stick the herbicide to the leaves and stems might be needed for blackberries... they are TOUGH! But what about buttercups -- and if you think any of these things would be good for the war on buttercups, can you please explain what you used and how?

Same with the dye -- sounds like a great idea but what sort of dye? RIT, lol? Food coloring? Something specifically made for this purpose?

Thanks again.

foggybok
Jun. 2, 2011, 02:17 AM
I'm planning to buy a tow-behind sprayer this weekend and start attacking them. We have a product the name of which is eluding me but it's a broadleaf herbicide and the horses can go back out after a couple of days. I can't imagine they will eat dead buttercups when they don't even eat live ones, but I'm wondering what I'll do to get rid of the debris. We are going to experiment, starting with a small area.

Tamara, when the buttercups are 3 inches tall or less, our pastures are apt to be under 3 inches of water or more! At least that's the way it has been the last couple of years with flooding and lingering groundwater. The buttercups are now knee-high and flowering but I can't believe it wouldn't help to do SOMETHING. Again, as I said, we'll experiment. Spray, toss down some lime, leave the pasture for 2-3 weeks?

yeah, I want to mow mine, but I can't even get the tractor in yet, it would sink..... I've tried spreading fireplace ash and I think it helps, but I still have plenty. I asked the extension agent how to get rid of it and he said "move"

foggybok
Jun. 2, 2011, 02:22 AM
I would love to know how to get rid of blackberries! It has to be non-toxic to horses though because I dont have anywhere to keep my gelding other than his paddock right now. I tried Round-up that said it was for blackberries. They just laughed.

Get a fjord....seriously, the Fjord eats them, plus the nettle and the thistle...... He's weird.....but I guess thousands of years of surviving in harsh conditions in Norway took away their sense of taste....and pain apparently.....

Personally, I like the blackberries, I get enough to have for breakfast in my oatmeal every day.....a freezer full for the winter! But mine are contained to two small areas....

chicamux
Jun. 2, 2011, 07:22 AM
Yes, a surfactant and what someone termed a "sticker" is the same thing. It's basicly a soapy, non-toxic liquid added to the herbicide spray.

When I sprayed the buttercups at my place they were tall and in full bloom. The milestone killed every single one of them, and most other weeds too. It killed weeds that survived Roundup.

With a tow-behind sprayer I wouldn't worry about using a dye as the boom gives you a wide enough overlap that you can simply crisscross small paddocks using fence posts as guides for your lines. I suppose if you are ambitious enough you could spot spray with a handheld or backpack sprayer but you will miss a lot of small plants.

And the manure from my horses only goes back to the fields so I'm not worried about it being used on plants for human consumption. Of course, one of my horses does look like he's ready for the smoke house! Just kidding......

chicamuxen

S1969
Jun. 2, 2011, 07:40 AM
I believe I have read that buttercups thrive in acidic soil, so lime might be the best cure? (That's my plan, anyway....just mowed down buttercups yesterday and pondered this same issue.) We have had trouble finding anyone to lime our "small" pastures because the big companies won't come here for such a small job and the lawn care places won't do anything this big. :rolleyes:

But I think we'll have to bite the bullet and do it ourselves (by hand or rig up a spreader). Hoping that will help, because no way we can get in here to mow/spray or anything when they are < 3" tall. Not to mention I would really prefer not to use herbicide if I can avoid it.

Mrs.ChickenBritches
Jun. 2, 2011, 10:43 AM
Get a fjord....seriously, the Fjord eats them, plus the nettle and the thistle...... He's weird.....but I guess thousands of years of surviving in harsh conditions in Norway took away their sense of taste....and pain apparently.....

Personally, I like the blackberries, I get enough to have for breakfast in my oatmeal every day.....a freezer full for the winter! But mine are contained to two small areas....

I would love to get a fjord! Mr.CB most likely would kill me though. I wouldn't mind the blackberries so much but when we bought this place last year they had completely taken over and are well entrenched. I lot of digging has kept the ones in the paddock manageable but elsewhere on the property...ugh. Some days I wish I could just set the whole place on fire.;)

I will look into the Crossbow stuff that has been mentioned for the non-horse areas.

CatOnLap
Jun. 2, 2011, 11:05 AM
well, crossbow is just 2-4-D and another herbicide for woody plants. The problem is that the places where buttercups and blackberries thrive are often wet soils. And Crossbow is specifically labeled NOT TO BE USED NEAR WETLANDS. The stuff is persistent, is mhighly toxic to fish and other aquatic and amphibious species- so go ahead and kill all your spring peepers and other beneficial animals that keep your mosquito and midge population down.

Milestone persists in your horse's manure and creates "killer compost" that will negatively affect ornamentals, many species of trees and almoist all vegetasbles you try and grow in it.

I had a QH like your fjord once. I called the vet out to look at the tiny ulcers he had on his gums and the vet said they were from the blackberry thorns when he was eating the young shoots and the berries.

mg
Jun. 2, 2011, 11:18 AM
Once buttercups arrive, are they there to stay? We've never had a buttercup issue until this year. We got SO MUCH RAIN this spring that the darn things took over :no: I was hoping to just mow the suckers down, but it doesn't sound like that will work. Grr

Belg
Jun. 2, 2011, 11:21 AM
Force her to marry Prince Humperdink...

Calvincrowe
Jun. 2, 2011, 12:37 PM
Ahhhh!! Princess Bride reference WINS! Mare-widge is what bwings us togevver today!

I like to curse the buttercups like the old hag does in the movie: "Filth, putrescence!"

Wellspotted
Jun. 2, 2011, 12:43 PM
Buttercups?

Or bitterweed?

monstrpony
Jun. 2, 2011, 03:20 PM
My donkeys will begin to snack on the buttercups after they have wilted from Crossbow.

What kind of dye do people use? One of the things that discourages me from spraying is not knowing where I have already sprayed. Silly, but ... Anyhow, I'd love to know what to use and where to get it.

Alagirl
Jun. 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
My donkeys will begin to snack on the buttercups after they have wilted from Crossbow.

What kind of dye do people use? One of the things that discourages me from spraying is not knowing where I have already sprayed. Silly, but ... Anyhow, I'd love to know what to use and where to get it.

Maybe bot a good idea to let the donkey eat those.

My dad told me some time ago that while the plant is fresh and juicy, animals (we were talking cattle tho) had no problem avoiding them, but one sprayed would eat them. And get very sick from it.

JoZ
Jun. 2, 2011, 03:45 PM
That's what I'm afraid of -- mountains of dead or dying buttercups and no place to put them. On a separate thread I asked about good attachments for my new tractor -- maybe something that will drag and pile the buttercups is in order.

Though, Alagirl, I heard something a bit different -- that the buttercups had to DRY to lose the noxious taste. I can't even get my socks dry this year in WA. I think I have a bit of leeway before the sun and lovely weather makes anything like hay out of our buttercups!

I am concerned, actually, about our horses resorting to eating them due to lack of alternatives. I know that horses can be very selective, and they don't really need to be able to grab huge mouthfuls of lush perfect grass. In fact it's better that they don't. But some of my piggy horses may decide that nosing amongst the buttercups for the few wisps of grass is less desirable than eating the offenders... :(

poltroon
Jun. 2, 2011, 04:51 PM
Some days I wish I could just set the whole place on fire.;)

Well... in our area that is one of the options. If your area allows ag burning it might be an option for you as well. My neighbor burned a fence line worth of blackberries one year.

wlrottge
Jun. 3, 2011, 02:10 PM
(cllane's other half here)

Buttercups, they suck, but I've got them down to a science now I think.

#1, like someone said, they are an indicator to a point. The like wet acidic soil, so first, get soil samples done. My results this spring showed very good nutriend levels, but low pH in some areas of the pasture. Ag lime will fix that problem and help the grass outcompete the weeds.

#2, from my days with the USDA Ag Research Service, buttercups to produce a chemical that keeps some plants from growing near them. I don't remember details, but I remember doing bioassays against grasses with the extracts. Point being, when they get dense enough, they may keep the grass out on their own.

#3, 2,4-D is your friend. I applied by hand, but for a reason. We have a large tractor mounted sprayer, but I wanted to be selective on the first pass. I used a backpack sprayer and ~2 pints of concentrate. The 2,4-D I used was only 2,4-D, it did not have any additional chemicals. If I remember right, the environmental half life of 2,4-D is ~9-10 days, so it is not very persistant. Lucky for me, I have a great entemologist at work that helps me with this stuff.

Most of the broadleaf herbicides are based on 2,4-D but add an extra compound to increase effectiveness. I have 2.5 gallons of Grazon Next that I was going to apply with the tractor to finish up treating the weeds, but.... no rain. 2,4-D is ok to apply on pasture w/o grazing restriction when used IAW the label/directions.


to sum it up:
- get soil tested (cheap)
- use 2,4-D
- adjust pH and fertilizer to let grass out compete weeds.

mg
Jun. 3, 2011, 04:44 PM
So...how much of a PITA is it to spray these suckers by hand? We do not have a tow-behind sprayer (can you rent one?) and I have about 3 acres of pasture I'd like to tackle...:-\

poltroon
Jun. 3, 2011, 05:08 PM
Normally, lime would be applied in the fall, before the rains and the growing season. I have some buttercups appearing under one of my fence lines. Might it be helpful to apply some lime to that area now, or is it better to just wait?

foggybok
Jun. 3, 2011, 05:16 PM
I would love to get a fjord! Mr.CB most likely would kill me though. I wouldn't mind the blackberries so much but when we bought this place last year they had completely taken over and are well entrenched. I lot of digging has kept the ones in the paddock manageable but elsewhere on the property...ugh. Some days I wish I could just set the whole place on fire.;)

I will look into the Crossbow stuff that has been mentioned for the non-horse areas.

You're close by, give me the address and you'll find him in your field tomorrow! ;) If you just find him, your husband can't be mad....:) C'mon, how can you resist this face?

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/31835_100797533306125_100755136643698_2291_7473429 _n.jpg

Edited to add: Just came in from a very therapeutic session of buttercup mowing....I know it won't work, but it gives me great satisfaction to mow them down....too bad I couldn't get to most of them becasue the ground is way too wet.....