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caryledee
May. 19, 2011, 11:19 AM
I was surprised to read on Eventing Nation today that Tiznow sired a foal out of a Warmblood mare. I have never heard of a TB stallion as popular as Tiznow being bred to mares outside the racing world. Is this something that is done on a regular basis? I'm just curious.

VirginiaBred
May. 19, 2011, 11:23 AM
He's FAB for one thing!
Lots of us Hunter folks LOVE him.

Kinsella
May. 19, 2011, 11:26 AM
It was likely a nurse mare foal. There are some really well bred ones out there... Someone I know has an AP Indy crossbred. And yes, they DNA typed it!

vineyridge
May. 19, 2011, 11:31 AM
Test foal for the upcoming breeding season? Why would a stud waste valuable semen getting nurse mares pregnant? I thought all they wanted was milk, and didn't care who the milk's baby daddy was.

caffeinated
May. 19, 2011, 11:35 AM
It was likely a nurse mare foal. There are some really well bred ones out there... Someone I know has an AP Indy crossbred. And yes, they DNA typed it!

Nope, mom is a very nice Warmblood showjumping mare - not a nurse mare (not that there's anything wrong with nurse mares)...

http://eventingnation.com/home/2011/05/oh-and-another-reason-to-love-kentucky.html

keepthelegend
May. 19, 2011, 12:10 PM
Usually the teaser breeds the nurse mare not the stallions. That's really interesting about the warmblood mare and very rare! Now they are going to a Connemara stallion? That is a massive stud fee reduction....I wonder if they bred to Tiz Wonderful or another son of Tiznow. I just can't imagine a non TB mare paying that stud fee.

keepthelegend
May. 19, 2011, 12:13 PM
Well, I should have read the comments. I guess it was a test breed. Lucky them!

aquafarms
May. 19, 2011, 12:25 PM
There was a Trakehner mare in the stud book by Storm Cat, here is a link to her from the American Trakehner site.

http://www.americantrakehner.com/Results/byDam.asp?searchdam=Donaukatze&image.x=30&image.y=13

caryledee
May. 19, 2011, 12:51 PM
Guess it pays to have the right connections!!

sportinghorsepolo
May. 19, 2011, 12:53 PM
I knew a trainer who (years ago) had an Appy/TB cross, courtesy of a test breed to Secretariat:eek:

caffeinated
May. 19, 2011, 12:56 PM
This guy?

http://barnlot.tripod.com/firstsecretarynarr.html

sportinghorsepolo
May. 19, 2011, 01:04 PM
Must be, the story was relayed to me 12+years ago so the name escaped me!

LaurieB
May. 19, 2011, 01:23 PM
Nothing about that story rings true. Perhaps that foal is by a Tiznow son but the chances of him being by Tiznow are ...well, none.

According to a note in the Comments, the breeding was done because "Very occasionally a stallion will breed to a "test mare" if he hasn't bred in a while; usually to one the farm owns, but as a special favour in this instance this little guy was the result of a test breed, which makes him even more amazing!"

The foal was born in early May. Which means that the mare was bred in June 2010--at the end of a full breeding season.

Tiznow bred 139 mares in 2010. He was not in need of "a test breed" last June. And he is certainly not the type of horse for whom extra free breeds to warmblood mares would be arranged on a whim. :lol:

ptownevt
May. 19, 2011, 01:32 PM
I think the comment about the test breeding refers to the 2 year old that won the conformation class, not this baby.

ravenclaw
May. 19, 2011, 02:52 PM
I knew a trainer who (years ago) had an Appy/TB cross, courtesy of a test breed to Secretariat:eek:
Several years ago, there was a pony horse at the Aiken Training Track that was a handsome dark bay Appaloosa. The story was that he was the result of a test breeding between Pleasant Colony and an Appy mare.

LaurieB
May. 19, 2011, 03:13 PM
I think the comment about the test breeding refers to the 2 year old that won the conformation class, not this baby.

In that case, I am impressed (and probably a little horrified) that someone would pay $75,000 to breed a sporthorse mare to Tiznow because the owners had once seen a good looking 2yo that he produced. (They should come and look at the Keeneland September sale--Tiznow produces lots of good looking offspring. ;) )

Interesting that after having been bred to one of the top TB stallions in the U.S. the mare is going to a Connemara this year.

jennywho
May. 19, 2011, 03:30 PM
okay I would LOVE the appy pleasant colony cross

Hoping the Tiznow warmblood isn's as dumb as our Tiznow, as far as I'm concerned if they're all like him I hope we never get another one again, he is a royal PITA

BansheeBreeze
May. 19, 2011, 03:49 PM
Uhhhhh...don't warmbloods allow AI? I didn't read the article but that option seems MUCH more plausible, hence why they probably didn't pay the full stud fee.

Texarkana
May. 19, 2011, 07:02 PM
Uhhhhh...don't warmbloods allow AI? I didn't read the article but that option seems MUCH more plausible, hence why they probably didn't pay the full stud fee.

Yes, it could have been an AI breeding. It could have even been done using the "seconds" collected after live covering a TB mare. But the whole story still seems bizarre. Who knows? *shrugs*

vineyridge
May. 19, 2011, 07:35 PM
Some sort of AI test is the only thing that makes sense. Knowing that Storm Cat's connections marketed his leftovers to QH mares means to me that some in Kentucky are at least thinking about widening their net.

At least that's more probable than any of the other explanations.

JER
May. 19, 2011, 07:44 PM
The foal was born in early May. Which means that the mare was bred in June 2010--at the end of a full breeding season.

Tiznow bred 139 mares in 2010. He was not in need of "a test breed" last June. And he is certainly not the type of horse for whom extra free breeds to warmblood mares would be arranged on a whim. :lol:

Yeah, this was my thinking, too. I did pose the original question on EN; my conclusion was that perhaps the author didn't have all the details.

I can't see why you'd risk a $75K stallion for a free WB breeding. Or, really, why you'd breed a international-caliber showjumper to a TB who's had a grand total of 1 offspring who's ribboned the line in hunter breeding. Or why you'd next breed that mare to an eventing Connemara.

But it makes a good story. :)

bugsynskeeter
May. 19, 2011, 07:50 PM
I know the stallion manager at WinStar - yes Tiznow has bred a couple of WB mares. Speightstown has bred several QH race mares - at full price.

Most likely live cover, as I do not believe TZ has ever been trained for AI.

vineyridge
May. 19, 2011, 08:05 PM
In a "confirmation" class, no less.

And the mare was said to be a "Belgian", not a Belgian WB, but she didn't look at all drafty in the photo.

Don't think you'd need to collect if you were using the leftovers from a live cover (or two or three) breeding. I know it's legit to collect it and add it to what's in the mounted mare. So the skill to collect after live cover is probably present at WinStar. And if the stuff was frozen and then thawed for a test breed . . .


Yeah, this was my thinking, too. I did pose the original question on EN; my conclusion was that perhaps the author didn't have all the details.

I can't see why you'd risk a $75K stallion for a free WB breeding. Or, really, why you'd breed a international-caliber showjumper to a TB who's had a grand total of 1 offspring who's ribboned the line in hunter breeding. Or why you'd next breed that mare to an eventing Connemara.

But it makes a good story. :)

Heart's Journey
May. 20, 2011, 11:58 AM
Good friend of mine had a Secreatariat App grandaughter, bred her to another Appy and she produced a solid red 16.3 mare that looked a lot like Secretariat.

She could run like the wind, but had quite an attitude. She ended up retiring her around age 13 as she was just too difficult to deal with as a riding horse and she passed away last year at age 26.