$120 CALL fee - absurd? [Archive]

RioTex

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:02 PM

Heather, when we moved to the new property, I tried valiantly to use the "local" vet. They are a large and small animal clinic and take cattle and horses. Well, my previous experiences had been with a top notch facility that has four or five equine-only vets, so it was a bit of a shock. They wouldn't take calls after hours and had a referral number for small animals only. I tried another "semi-local" clinic that at least had a real equine practice. It was going OK until the night I was out of town on business and my non-horsey husband got home to find our two year filly down and in pain. My trainer came out and stayed with him and wait to see if the Banamine would soothe her. It did not and her husaband had to come help them get the horse in the trailer. It is now after 10:00pm on a week night, I am making calls to the clinic while he takes the horse in. We paged the on-call vet four times and had not heard anything. I told him to keep driving and I would call my old clinic. I should have called the non-page-returning clinic owner and explained why he lost my business, but after the filly died on the operating table, I just couldn't face the call. They could not have saved her either.

Needless to say, I now haul over an hour away for routine stuff like Coggins and floats, because I know my vet will be there when I need them. There have been times when I would have gladly paid $120+++++ to get someone to the farm, but there is no one in my rural area that wants to deal with horses.

Twice we have been in situation that have looked bleak and twice the vets at the "real" clinic have offered to come out if we had no other choice. They knew as I did that getting the horse in was the best bet.

Trinity Hill Farm (http://www.trinityhillfarm.com)

Dianna

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:05 PM

I think it is criminal the charges most vets bill before they even lay eyes on the horse. While I realize vet school is expensive and equipment is expensive, I think their outrageous bills are the reason so many people cannot take better care of their animals.

I had a vet say once (while I was standing there) how frustrating it is for him that people wait so long to call or don't call ... and I looked him point blank in the eyes and said that it isn't surprising considering what the average person has to pay to just have the vet look at their horse. Even if you are making good money, how long does it take for the average horse owner to earn $120 ???

I took one of my horses to a clinic to have stifle x-rays done. I called ahead and was blunt - I'm coming for x-rays and that is it. I don't want your vet looking at them, giving me an opinion or anything other than taking an xray. When I got there, the vet (young) jerked the shank out of my hands, and proceeded to do flexion tests ... I quickly stopped him and reminded him I wasn't interested in his input or opinion that I was only there for xrays. My husband was mortified; but, I didn't care. Then the vet tried to tell me the horse was worse after flexion ... and I asked him which horse he was looking at.

The horse was a bit upset, so I asked the vet to lightly sedate him. When I saw what he was going to use, I stopped him and said, no, just give him 1/2 of that... he doesn't have a normal reaction to sedatives and that much will lay him out. He didn't listen, and needless to say, it took all of us to keep this horse up on his feet.

We got the x-rays and there was nothing remarkable, so I asked the young vet to block the hocks (but again explained I didn't want an exam - I only wanted them blocked). Now, we have a horse that is still pretty groggy ... and this young vet decides to spin him around to test for EPM ... before I could stop him, my horse was on the ground (literally, sitting on his butt!).

Well, needless to say, my vet showed up right as I was teaching this young kid how to use four letter words in new and creative combinations!! My vet laughed and asked if I didn't make myself clear about not wanting his help or input and if I cleared the horse getting as much sedation as he gave.

Well, along came the bill (while I was still fumming mad) with tons of "extra" charges. I borrowed the vets pen, crossed out that which I did not authorize and then wrote a check for the rest. My parting comments were ... please, sue me, and I'll be happy to see you in Court.

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:06 PM

That would be 85.00 with my vet. She is great! If you can wait till the scheudual it in 40.00 fee to come to the barn.

http://www.localweb.com/beadtrap/donkeyday/jokerelfsm.jpg

J Swan

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:27 PM

These stories are very illuminating. Can anyone tell me how much malpractice insurance costs vets, what sort of overhead they have, etc? I don't want to unfairly malign vets -I have a lot of respect for a person that will drive to your barn in the middle of the night to stick his/her arm up your horses' butt.

On the other hand, I've seen many changes in the profession (from a customer's viewpoint) - that seemsto indicate a more obvious businesslike manner in vets. (I'm not saying this is bad at all). I'm just used to having my horse treated by a James Herriot type - a person dedicated to treating animals and not minding if he has holes in his shoes. Is that realistic?

Any vets or techs wish to weigh in on this? Perhaps this is the subject of a different thread. What are we getting for these apparant exorbitant fees - what challenges does the equine vet face in today's market? What does the vet expect from us as a client and horse owner?

"He doth nothing but talk of his horse." Shakespeare - The Merchant of Venice

SunshineGA

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:28 PM

Dianna- I hate to say it but when people come in with their animals and don't want an exam jsut so they don't have to pay an exam fee, quite frankly makes us cringe.

Did you expect that they were really going to take x-rays and just hand them over to you?

Did you really expect that they were just going to block the hocks for you only charging for the materials?

Vets put themselves in dangerous, crazy situations everyday and people walk all over them. Granted maybe your horse wasn't crazy and he was sedated, but how is the vet supposed to know that?

You can't expect services done without paying for the service.

If you expect to get x-rays and hocks blocked (which isnt exactly just sticking a needle in, it involves finding the right nerve) and expect to self diagnose, you're looking in the wrong place by going to the clinic, because that is just not fair to the vets.

Chances are when the vet was doing the flexion, he was just trying to help...that IS his job after all.

** I do agree that the vet was a little naive by not listening to you, but don't forget you waltzed in there telling people you wanted them to do things but not pay an exam fee, a vet usually doesn't listen when people talk like that. And yes it was ridiculous to do an EPM test with the horse sedated.

Excuse me for the flaming, but when you see this everyday it gets a little frsutrating and hard not to say anything.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

BelladonnaLily

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:30 PM

My normal farm call is $30. I haven't had an emergency call in eons (knock on wood) but knowing the way my vet (probably soon to be ex-vet) keeps jacking his rates on everything else, his emer. call is probably about the same.

Seems as if he could cut you a little slack on a 7:30am call. I certainly HOPE you didn't get him out of bed at that hour http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif What time do his normal hours start?

SunshineGA

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:35 PM

J Swan- I am a vet tech and I just posted my thoughts, at least on Dianna's post.

Vets face a lot of things people don't realize.

-internet shopping- does anyone realize that a lot of practices rely on selling pharmaceuticals? so what you pay for stuff online, your vet is losing money, therefore having to increase fees in other places.

-equipment- VERY expensive!!!!!! Im not even gong to go there. (OK I lied- autoclaves, x-ray machines, x-ray processors are not inexpensive and neither are the fees that it takes to run them... ie processing fluids, electricity...etc.)

-malpractice: well not as much as in human practice, but they still pay.

-insurance for themselves, employees, 'nuff said

-gas (for those equine vets that travel)

and much more! Now after all these costs try to understand that the vet also needs to make a living off this????

And yes, vets do know going into the business that its not a 9-5 job, but that doesn't mean you should walk all over them and expect them to come out in the wee hours for the same price that they do on normal appointment hours.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

SunshineGA

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:38 PM

And most likely if the costs are going up for you, they are probably going up for your vet too. And for the vets in the area as well.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

Dianna

Dec. 4, 2003, 02:52 PM

SunshineGa, yep, I expect the vet to work as directed. I called, made my position clear, let them know I had my own consulting vet; but, needed the use of their equipment and was willing to pay for that. They were also aware of my own background.

I really don't care if vets cringe or not. What I find worth cringing about is the blatant disregard so many of our professionals have (in all areas) for their chosen profession, rather than the bottom line number. I know all the expenses involved in becoming a vet and opening a practice - but that cannot be what motivates and guides our professionals (and more often than not, it is).

I expected to be charged for the blocking and the costs associated therewith. I did not want the vet's opinion; because frankly, I had no belief that he would have anything to say that my own vet (and I) couldn't figure out. I would have been happy with a lab tech (actually, happier).

I have my own group of professionals I chose to pay and work with. However, the clinic had the equipment I needed for that particular situation.

The bottom line is ... when an owner instructs a vet to specifically not do something, the vet should err on the side of caution. You can always give more sedation, but, it is hard to go the other way. What would his response have been if the horse injured himself going down? Gee, I'm sorry.

I never said I wouldn't pay for the services I requested and authorized.

I wasn't self diagnosing anything, I had my own vet for the diagnostic portion. Actually, I already knew what was wrong; but, I needed comfirmation and I had my own trusted vet. I was quite aware of what it takes to perform the tasks I requested and willing to pay.

It is not any vet's job or right to perform anything he wasn't been requested to do. You don't take a horse you have no history on, whatsoever, and decide to do a flexion test on it in the middle of a parking lot.

While I agree that you probably do see at lot at the vet tech. level to make you cringe, you have to understand that so many of us that are far older than the common practicing vet gets a little upset when they don't realize that others have very good working knowledge and understandings of these matters and should be treated with respect.

Bottom line - the owner has the last word. The vet and his staff and equipment are tools that we have available to us to obtain information so as to make informed decisions. Nobody should make any decision concerning a horse, other than the owner, after gaining as much information as possible from the vets and farriers and other professionals we chose to employ.

I too had the urge to rant; but, Sunshine, please do not take anything personally - I have a great deal of respect for the time our vets spend getting their education; I just think they need to remember that while they were in school - many of us were getting hands-on experience.

[This message was edited by Dianna on Dec. 04, 2003 at 07:00 PM.]

J Swan

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:00 PM

Thanks, SunshineGA - I realized you were a tech and was interested in your response. It is a business and businesses must make a profit. I think the industry has undergone a big change in the past 10-15 years. Perhaps horse owners are feeling the pinch a little. I know I am. And I don't like finding out about major price changes when opening a bill.

Lack of communication is among the main causes of patient/client dissatisfaction and malpractice claims. (in human medicine). I'm sure it's similar in veterinary medicine. Price increases and major staff or business changes should be communicated to clients to avoid "misunderstandings". Likewise, owners can be more informed, more proactive and solution oriented.

I'd encourage all horse owners to find out beforehand what their vets policies and costs are. And I'd encourage all vets to promulgate that information and to keep their clientele informed. Don't wait until a horse is ill or injured to hash it out.

"He doth nothing but talk of his horse." Shakespeare - The Merchant of Venice

Ghazzu

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Carolinela:
I think its absurd. When you are a large animal vet you know going in that its a 24/7 type deal.Horses dont get sick just between 9-5 weekdays. .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll turn that one back on you, and say, when you buy a horse you should know that it's a 24/7 care thing, and they don't just get sick during business hours, so you need to be ready to pony up the emergency fee.
The vet knows that s/he's going to have thier life disrupted by emergency calls.
That does *not* mean that they're not entitled to charge for it.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

Cherry

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:24 PM

It may be absurd but they have us by the short hairs!!! It doesn't matter--if you want someone to come after hours you're at their mercy... I was talking to a guy at the grocery store and I told him I could not get a vet out to look at my horse when she colicked!!!! To which he replied that everyone is getting too d@mn independent these days... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe some of these vets are burned out--I don't blame them, it's a thankless job...

My small animal vets don't even handle emergencies anymore, they refer to an after hours clinic that most all of the vets went together on... It used to be it was fifty dollars just to walk in the door, before they even looked at your animal... I had to use it once when my cat was attacked by bees--when I got her into the clinic I thought she was dead, but the vet would not even look at her until I signed a form stating that I would pay for her treatment, whatever they deemed necessary... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

When I took the cat into my regular vet after her weekend stay at the emergency clinic I informed my vet that if any of my animals were in pain again I would not be using the emergency clinic but I would kill my animal instead--the clinic was that distasteful to me!!! It was not manned by local vets but by vets brought in with the express job of providing emergency service, and as an animal owner I was not happy with the way I was treated... Of course, my remark fell on deaf ears... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I had authorized giving a shot of mannitol to my cat via the telephone which she needed to keep the swelling down in her brain--it was not given and when my vet examined her the first thing out of her mouth was, "I think this cat is blind!"--gee, what a surprise!!! Ugh!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

I have been dealing with animal ownership for about the past twenty years, but I am deeply disturbed by the growing trend of veterinarians not wanting to be bothered by emergencies--ever... I have gone so far as to tell one of my vets that if they didn't want to deal with emergencies they should have become a dermatologist--they never have emergencies... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I love my horse--I have wanted a horse since I was four years old, I waited thirty-five years to get her--now I have to live in constant fear that she could die any minute because a veterinarian can't be bothered to come in an emergency!!! I'm sorry, we don't make enough money to afford a truck and trailer--what am I supposed to do??? When she colicked I went by the book and called a vet, but the book doesn't tell me what to do when the vet fails to respond... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

When these animals die, that's it!!! My heart can't take this stress much longer--no moreanimals for me... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif And I am a true animal lover...

Yes, a vet can charge whatever he/she wants to but at the end of the day one must leave the client with enough money to support the animal or the client gets rid of said animal and there goes your client base... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Jo got a rude awakening and she may be in the process of looking for a new vet or she may decide that her heart can't take any more either and the horse has to go... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

"Everything looks good until you start to examine it!!!", uttered by me on more than one occasion

[This message was edited by Cherry on Dec. 04, 2003 at 07:46 PM.]

SunshineGA

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:28 PM

Dianna- My apologies, you did not specify that you had another vet to look at the films. I had an image of a woman walking in with her horse demanding x-rays and shoving people out of her way. I apologize.

IMO the situation would have gone smoother had your vet called requesting x-rays and you would be bringing the horse in and delivering the x-rays to him (or he picking up the x-rays)

BUT I highly doubt it was necessary to do the nerve blocking at that facility as all that is needed to do so was a bit of lidocaine and a few needles and a syringe. And the vet does have to have some kind of input on something like this as there is no other way to document (like handing over films) the results.

Yes the young vet was wrong to do the flexion on a horse he did not have a hx.

Do realize though that although many people are older than their vets, there are a lot of kooks out there (not saying you are one of them) and so vets are fairly wary when people say they know what they are talking about. And I know you have got know some.

And I seriously do apologize on the young vet's part b/c I have had the pleasure of working with new vets and yes they seem to know everything (I am certainly younger than they, but when you are working with someone straight out of vet school after working with a seasoned vet you DEFINATELY see a difference).

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

Dianna

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:30 PM

Cherry, it is always good to get a working relationship with your vet one where you can call them and talk with them. It is good to have drugs on hand that you can administer - such as banamine and bute and ace, etc.

However, as owners, when we call the vet, it is important to be able to distinguish between a real emergency and not. When we call we should know the temperature, the pulse, the refill time of their capillaries, whether or not they have gut sounds, the last manure/urine... if we are looking at lameness, if the horse has a digital pulse, heat in any area.

All too often are vets are being dragged to situations that could have waited and even worse, ones where owners waited (the horse looked odd at Noon) to see if the horse would get better, and instead of calling and talking with their vet, they waited until the horse was already in distress (hours later).

It is such a double edged sword for vets and owners a like .... What I find interesting is that 9 out of 10 times my horse vet will drop off medications or give directions over the phone ... whereas my small animal vet insists on seeing the animal every single time ...

Dianna

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:32 PM

Sunshine - I have the same thing with attorneys. I make my $$$ as a paralegal, and have more problems dealing with the baby attorneys than the older ones. In fact, in one firm, they paid me extra to "break in" the baby attorneys .... gee, I often thought a lip shank was the way to go.

GotSpots

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:33 PM

The vet and his staff are not just "tools" for the owner's diagnoses. A veterinarian, like a doctor or a lawyer, is a professional, with ethical and moral obligations towards the care of his or her patients. I treat it is a different kind of profession from a photographer or a plumber, because a veterinarian's obligations much more strongly represent fiduciary duties. I pay for their judgment and experience, and I trust that they will act in a way that is in my and my horses' interests: if they do not, I get a new vet.

$120 to get out at 6:30 in the morning for a colicking horse? Absolutely. I'd pay it without question. For the first part, if you've ever had to call a plumber for an emergency fix at 6:30 in the morning, I'd be shocked if the charge to come was only $120, even if you could find one to come. Moreover, for the vet, such a trip would likely be far more than an hour of their time, at some cold, dark, and unpleasant time of day, when they could be snuggled in bed, having breakfast with their kids, or doing any of the myriad things most of us do in our own time. A vet who is reachable, who comes out at that hour, who tries to get it right and make the correct call, often with incomplete information and the knowledge that veterinary medicine is as often an art as a science, that vet I would not only pay my bill promptly and cheerfully, but I would try to have waiting a hot cup of coffee, if I could. Sure, I question my bill to make sure I understand it or if there's something wrong or an error, but I don't ask a vet to come out at some god-awful time to do things without a little combat pay to compensate. The vets I have been privileged to know are ones who I would see at the hospital at 6am and at 9 at night (I had a horse in intensive care with severe intractable pneumonia and got to watch close hand the work of several talented vets). They had the privilege of spending often five and six figures to get their educations. They pay large amounts for equipment, staff, overhead. They are kicked and bit by their patients. They are complained about by their clients. And despite all of that, they tried their best to get it right. They went out into muddy fields, unlighted farms, and cold, wet nights to care for folks' horses who may not always have even been regular clients.

Not in the least absurd.

DVM2003

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:34 PM

I am an equine vet...recently graduated (May 03). 75$ is not unreasonable for an emergency fee. I'm at a referral center and our fee is $60 (and that does not included any exam or professional fees). $50-$100 is probably the range depending on where you live. As someone else said, I feel I should be paid if I have to disrupt my night or plans to come see a horse (of course I don't get any of the emergency fee now). Many practices will give all or a portion of the emergency fee to the attending vet if they are an associate and not owner. This is becoming common since not all vets are willing to do emergency work and this helps to sweeten the pot so to speak.

You may not be aware, but there is a shortage of equine vets that is becoming very concerning to the AAEP (american association of equine practitioners). They are actively trying to recruit vet students to be interested in equine practice, but it's a hard sell compared to small animal. Less money, more time, emergency duty and the chance to get seriously injured or worse just doing your job.

To the poster with the concern about the vet who wouldn't do just radiographs...

since I wasn't there I can only speak to what my concern with the situation would have been. If I'm presented with a lame horse and "just do" radiographs and then "just block the hocks" for the owner, I'd be very scared of a lawsuit later. Since a full exam potentially wasn't done it would be easy for the owner to come back and say I mis-diagnosed or worse, made a recommendation that further injured the horse. I guess I'm also reminded of the "you catch more flies with honey cliche..."

I hope this didn't offend you, I'm just voicing what my concerns would have been if I was put in the same position.

-C

SunshineGA

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:36 PM

I am really upset to hear about people saying their vets dont come for emergencies! I don't know of any around here that don't, and honestly, that is sad.

As far as lack of communication goes though, vets have a LOT of clients. The goods ones try, like when we had to up our exam fee due to clients buying pharmacueticals online, we sent out letters explaining what we were doing and why. We still had an uproar.

I am personally striving to become a vet and I plan on being as open with my clients as humanely possible and keeping the vet-client-patient interaction open http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

[This message was edited by SunshineGA on Dec. 04, 2003 at 08:24 PM.]

MeanderCreek

Dec. 4, 2003, 03:54 PM

I personally don't think $120 for an emergency call is outrageous. Its high, but not obscene - heck I once paid $245 for a regular call, and rectal palpation that the vet considered a breeding soundness exam on a mare I was looking at - said he didn't have an ultrasound and didn't do cultures or biopsies so that was it! Needless to say I won't use him if I'm ever looking at mares in that state again.

We're VERY fortunate that we have a great vet sevice here with reasonable prices. Of course we have a relationship based on mutual respect. I respect their opinions, even if I don't always agree with them and if I choose to seek additional opinions they are still involved. I would never, ever hire a vet for anything - not even diagnostics - that I didn't respect enough to at least consider their findings in the first place.

Our vet service does the general farm work, reproductive work that I can't do, and emergency calls. Serious lameness issues and prepurchaes that will require many x rays go up to a clinic that a great Doc works from. Surgeries go to another referral hospital but our regular guys always know what's going on. Because of that, they're always prepared for what we may need and ready to help. We have an established working relationship and that has proven invaluable numerous times.

I just plain don't think its fair to give the easy routine stuff to one person, then expect someone else to come put out the fires in the middle of the night who wouldn't otherwise see any of your business (not implying that this was the case, but I know it happens to my guys all the time). Of course when we have an emergency, I expect them to be here RIGHT NOW and they always have been. In fact, one night we knew a mare was likely to need assistance foaling. When I failed at repositioning the foal and called the vet who knew of the possibility, he was here in five minutes - now he only lives about eight miles away but that's why I love my guys!

www.meandercreekstable.com (http://www.meandercreekstable.com)

[This message was edited by MeanderCreek on Dec. 04, 2003 at 08:13 PM.]

Flash44

Dec. 4, 2003, 04:30 PM

Most practices schedule in "on call" time for after hours services for the medical personnel. Doctors, nurses, vets, etc. Sometimes they get called out, sometimes they don't. But it is worked into the schedule so that the load is shared, and they get some rest time after being on call. And they ALWAYS get some kind of compensation for being on call, even if they don't get called out.

I also think it is absurd for them to charge for a diagnosis, even though you told them what was wrong when you called for them to come out!

lame joe

Dec. 4, 2003, 04:30 PM

Geez, I usually never reply to threads like this, but since this doesn't seem to be a 'vet bashing' thread, I'd like to add my 1 cent. Maybe half a cent. It is so hard for me not to take this personally -

If I forget to address all of the points brought up, forgive me, I can't quite remember them all.

First of all, I work for a very well regarded 5 vet primary care ambulatory practice. We work extensively with New Bolton Center as well as other secondary institutions and we practice excellent medicine. We offer prompt 24 hour emergency service 7 days a week 365 days a year. A pre-scheduled regular appointment is $35 - split as many ways as owners we work for at that barn. A person who calls with a non-emergency but who wants the horse seen that day (weekday) is charged $45. Our emergency fees increase by $10 every two hours and after midnight, the fee is generally over $100. Saturday evenings and Sundays are $10 more/hour than weekdays. This is firmly set in stone and we can provide the fee schedule to anyone who requests it.

That said, I need to point out that regardless of what you 'sign up for' when you are a vet (of course we know we are going to be on call), it is still extremely difficult to work 18 hours or more straight for several days and be at the beck and call of your beeper and still offer caring, smart, and prompt service - yet we manage to do just that. I was on 50% of the call for my practice for 2 years straight when I first got out of vet school. I can assure you that this is a more rigorous schedule than most MD's face. The bottom line is that you, as the client, may decide to call us or not.

We are the most reliable emergency service in our area which contains several other equine practices and we only provide this excellent emergency service to our regular clients - we service approximately 5000 horses/year. We are constantly bombarded by calls of people who use the cheaper vets who either do not come out for their colics and other emergencies (many horses have died from this) or who mismanage cases and we need to try and rectify them.

My boss's overhead is enormous. All five vets have x ray equipment, surgery equipment, ultrasound capability, endoscopic capability, and now shock-wave capability. I'm sure I'm leaving out some of our technology. We each have trucks that require maintenance. We have a support staff of 6 to keep our office running smoothly!!

Absolutely there are bad, unethical vets out there. Just like there are bad owners, bad MD's, bad plumbers, and bad Indian Chiefs (Native American Chief's more PC?)

However, Dianna, I apologize and am saying this as kindly as I can - frankly you sound like a nightmare client to me. We like our owners to be able to give us an assessment of their horses when they call us for emergencies. However, when someone claims to know all of the vitals/pulses/CRT/borborygmi etc etc etc...unless they are very experienced, most of the time they are just wrong or giving me information that I don't need in a situation where I need to get an accurate assessment in a short period of time. I trust it so much when an owner says that their horse just isn't right as opposed to someone who comes off as trying to impress with lots of numbers that don't matter too much in an emergency situation. I so much prefer an owner to just say, "I'm not sure" than to claim to know more than they do.

That said, I work for a lot of people who can do an initial assessment as well as I can, but they tend to be very low key about it. Also, if I am on the phone, trying to get a handle on what the horse is doing in an emergency situation, I want to ask questions and get direct answers - not listen to a diatribe of other things that don't mean as much to me. Now in a non-emergency situation, like when dealing with behavior, lameness, or other things, I generally do not ask a lot of questions at first, as I like the owner to tell me everything they have been noticing. Emergencies are different.

We are in a teaching profession and I spend a heck of a huge amount of time educating and teaching my owners - for none of this time do I get paid. If I stay on the farm, chatting for 30 minutes about nutrition, horse care - whatever, I do not bill for that. That can often add 2 hours on to my day! Phone calls are also free, although I have spent 45 minutes on a phone call only to be asked the same question by the client the next day at which point I patiently re-explain things in a different way to try and get my point across. I always encourage people to call if they have any little question, but this time adds up for me.

When you become a vet, you take on the challenge of being a teacher, and I find it extremely rewarding but it is very time consuming! My cell phone bill is astronomical each month.

If you take your horse to a secondary facility for simple radiographs, then your vet should make the referral and make that clear.

However, if you are requesting to have "hocks blocked" you are requesting a lameness exam. There is no way to assess whether a block works unless you assess the horse first. Flexion tests are as basic a part of a lameness exam as hoof testing. Also, by saying blocking the hocks, are you indicating an intra-articular block, or a peroneal-tibeal nerve block that numbs from the hock down? Intra-articular DITJ and TMTJ blocks are not something that you do in five minutes - they take scrubbing/prepping and a lot of risk on the part of the vet. We risk infection (as you do when you enter any joint) and also, if you are blocking for assessment then you can't sedate the horse and you risk getting your head kicked in.

I'm not saying that the vet who worked on your horse was right, but I think your rendition of the appointment sounds very biased. The older vet was probably trying to smooth things over with you, whether he felt his associate did wrong or not.

I am very sorry if this is too long or too preachy. I work in a very difficult profession where there are often as many questions as answers. 95% of our clients are wonderful, caring people who want to be educated and who often are already very educated. We are in a nice position to be able to choose not to work for people with whom we do not have good rapport. As hard as I work, a simple thank you card from a client or a note emailed to me after a difficult case makes it all worth while to me - I know this is true for my associates as well. Please do not underestimate the good quality, caring medicine practiced by many veterinarians out there.

Sorry for the long post. Maybe I should go back to lurking!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Liz

DVM2003

Dec. 4, 2003, 04:53 PM

Liz-

you said what I was afraid to!! Good going. Too bad I'm looking for an associate position in VA - your practice sounds great.

Cathy dvm

ladydoctor

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:03 PM

What lame joe said.....

I am no longer in private practice because I was worn out all the time and had no time for myself. Now I have time to enjoy my horses, my family and friends and rarely get called out in the middle of the night or at 6:30 in the morning. $120 sounds like a bargain to me!

BelladonnaLily

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SunshineGA:
And most likely if the costs are going up for you, they are probably going up for your vet too. And for the vets in the area as well.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not necessarily. As I posted on an earlier thread about DVM fees, my vet's rates have gone WAY up and no one else in the area has gone up anywhere near close to his. And he is the "new kid on the block", so to speak. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:06 PM

Ok wow... I didn't think I in ANY way implied that I wasn't going to pay my bill IN FULL AT THE END OF THE MONTH as stipulated by the clinic "rules."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Jo got a rude awakening and she may be in the process of looking for a new vet or she may decide that her heart can't take any more either and the horse has to go... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know where in the world you got this idea, Cherry. I have been through hell and back with this horse, I would (and have!) done everything in my power to make my horse happy, healthy, and comfortable.

Yes, I have found a new vet clinic to use. It is nothing personal against this vet... I think it's one of those "good vets stuck in a bad situation" type deals. However, I have to be realistic. I am on a very limited income (poor recent college grad and that whole sob story) and if I have to pick between two vets of equal skill and personality - but one happens to be a heck of a lot cheaper - I'm going to have to pick the cheaper one. Wouldn't you? All things being equal - money is the deciding factor for me. At least in a situation like this.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> And yes, vets do know going into the business that its not a 9-5 job, but that doesn't mean you should walk all over them and expect them to come out in the wee hours for the same price that they do on normal appointment hours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor do I expect this. I do not think half an hour before the clinic opens is "in the wee hours." Yes, my barn owner called him before 7, and yes, it was not during regular business hours, and I'm glad she did! I was merely inquiring if this was a "normal" additional fee for an after-hours call. Typically, in my humble experience, the most I have seen tacked on is $40 or so. Not an additional $75.

I do think the vet is worth every penny... well almost every penny. He's a great vet who tried everything he could to help my mare before we took her to the hospital for surgery. He has always been patient and understanding with my numerous questions (I'm sure I'm one of those people that vets hate because I always want to know everything that is going on) and was so sweet to me when I was obviously upset by a distressing situation.

I'm sorry if any of you got the impression that I am going to skip out on the bill. I have already paid the surgery bill IN FULL at the time I picked up my mare, and I will pay this bill IN FULL at the end of the month despite the extreme financial hardship it will place on me. Because this is MY horse, and she is MY best friend, and I DO realize that the vets have to earn a living as well.

Sorry, but it really irks me that someone implied that I would just get rid of her. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

TODAY'S BLESSING: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. AMEN

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:08 PM

[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. As I posted on an earlier thread about DVM fees, my vet's rates have gone WAY up and no one else in the area has gone up anywhere near close to his. And he is the "new kid on the block", so to speak. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[/QUOTE]

Pretty much http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif here too. I simply wanted to know if this was the "norm" in other areas, as I had not experienced this 'round here in my 10 years living here. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif

TODAY'S BLESSING: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. AMEN

War Admiral

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:12 PM

yet another reason why i loff my vet.. her regular-hours call fee is 35 and after-hours is 45. so yes, i would gulp at 120! other area vets seem to charge 45 regular and maybe 75 after hours.

______________

sorry about lack of caps. i'm typing one-handed. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Nickelodian

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:36 PM

Jo -- I'm glad to read that chelsea is doing well!

I agree if I got a 120 call on my invoice I would be very very shocked. I guess I am lucky b/c my horse always goes to the vet instead of vice versa. I once had a chiro come out to see Carson who charged a 135 call in a NON emergency call. When I asked her ahead of time how much the call would be she said "oh well it will be about 50 b/c I'm coming from that side of town". When I got the bill I called her questioning it and she said "I had to drop off my tech back in South Austin, so I had to charge you from her house". I was not happy...and no I didn't pay that bill in full.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.scatteredoaksfarm.com (http://www.scatteredoaksfarm.com)

big boy

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:53 PM

Well, I will have to say I know the feeling. The sad part was that it was a scheduled appointment. I ended up paying $50.00 per horse for the trip fee. Yep, $250.00 just for the vet to come out for shots and coggins. By the time we were finished I was looking at $750.00 for the trip. Needless to say not my vet anymore. Plus find out he has started building his own clinic.

Hope my name is at least on the wall somewhere.

TKR

Dec. 4, 2003, 05:59 PM

My vet is extremely fair and always tries to be as conservative as possible, explains everything in a very understandable way and is so compassionate. He's been doing my equine vet work since the late 70's and I feel very blessed to have him. I don't question anything, as I appreciate how hard he works and what a wealth of knowledge he has. I feel strongly if he can't fix it, it just wasn't meant to be.
PSG

Dianna

Dec. 4, 2003, 06:06 PM

Liz, to you I might be a nightmare; but, to the vets I use here in AZ and before on LI, I am the one they referr layups to.

As far as blocking the horse, I had my own vet arriving, he was late. We had discussed our plan earlier and it was agreed if the x-rays were unremarkable (which they were), we would block his hocks.

My vet was genuinely surprised that any DVM would over-rule an owner who specifically tells them that their horse cannot handle a full dose of sedative.

I understand that there are many owners who call their vets at the drop of a hat, or wait for the last minute and call at some ungodly hour, or that want to do nothing more than pick their vet's brain and not pay for the information; however, I still feel that owners have to take a far more hands-on role in their horse's care, and need to know what the "base line" is for their horse (ie temperature, pulse, etc., etc.). They have to learn to be fully informed, as they ultimately are the ones who have to make the decisions on how their horse is treated or not treated.

While you might not be interested in your client providing you with that kind of information, my vets have come to expect it. When I ask for them to "come now" there are never any questions asked.

J Swan

Dec. 4, 2003, 06:17 PM

I'm so glad some vets gave us their perspective. Liz - that was a great post - stop lurking and join in the fun!

Fees will probably continue to go up in part because of the cost of doing business, and to attract and retain qualified vets. You have to really love being a vet to do large animals.

I have 2 favorite vets and I'm going to say their names for all to see. Drs. Tookie Myers and Todd Burdick. 2 guys who work way too hard for way too little and never seem to be too busy to answer questions.

"I have observed in women of her type a tendency to regard all athletics as inferior forms of fox-hunting”- Evelyn Waugh

lilblackhorse

Dec. 4, 2003, 06:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SunshineGA:
J Swan- I am a vet tech and I just posted my thoughts, at least on Dianna's post.

Vets face a lot of things people don't realize.

-internet shopping- does anyone realize that a lot of practices rely on selling pharmaceuticals? so what you pay for stuff online, your vet is losing money, therefore having to increase fees in other places.

-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I am going to weigh in on this one---yes, they do, and I am willing to pay their price to a certain degree. But when I can buy the product for $15, and they want $50 for the same exact product, don't tell me that THAT's not highway robbery. I have done my shopping, and most vets around her won't give a script for purchase over the net, but still, the costs vary tremendously just within the 4 or 5 equine vet practices we have in town.

As for the $75 emergency call---I think I pay around $40 or so. I'd rather pay that than have to haul a sick horse in somewhere, so I can live with that.

I still go back to the moron vet who had the audacity to charge me $25 for filling out an insurance form when I had specifically told him the horse was insured and that it would involve a short form. All I ask for is common courtesy and communication-had he said "I will be charging you a prorated rate of $150 to fill out this form", then I would have told him to take a hike. I fought it, but chose to pay the jerk before collections made my credit rating fall. needless to say, he's not someone I have used since, nor have recommended. He has a reputation for being a "nickel and dimer"

Elippses Users Clique........Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group, "I hate stall rest"and now the "Better riding through Chemistry Clique"

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

efobyrne

Dec. 4, 2003, 07:38 PM

Two weeks ago I had to take my two large dogs to our after hours emergency vet clinic (they got into baker's chocolate that one of the cats had knocked out a cupboard. Coincidence? I wonder...)

Anyway, the cost to cross the threshold of the clinic is $82/dog. That is before the vet even sees the animal. A friend who is a vet tech once gave me a breakdown of the costs to keep such a clinic running. After that, I have never quibbled at the cost.

The costs for a vet with a properly equipped vehicle that is basically a mini clinic on wheels driving out to goodness knows where must be even higher. And of course there is the added challenge of inclement weather conditions and less than ideal working conditions.

I wouldn't be happy paying $120, but I understand that if that is the price of keeping a vet in equine practice, so be it.

(I have to say the emergency clinic ended up just charging the $82 for one dog rather than both. We had to pay for the both exams and the charcoal antidote. I think it was the loving charcoal kiss my lab cross planted on the vet's cheek that got us the discount.)

lame joe

Dec. 4, 2003, 07:52 PM

Jo - I love clients who ask lots of questions and want to know everything that is going on. Interacting with the people is one of the most fun parts of my job and the reason that I chose to do ambulatory work instead of staying at the University and doing a residency. I love getting to know my clients and many are friends as well as clients.

Dianna - I know exactly which of my clients can assess an emergency correctly BUT it almost doesn't matter. If ANYONE ever says 'come now,' I respond immediately. If they are that worried, there is something behind it...even if I don't know exactly what to expect. I am ALL for people knowing how to TPR and check mucus membranes. The first question out of my mouth when someone calls me about a horse that's not eating and depressed is, "Did you take its temp?" Almost always, the answer is no. And many times, these guys are 103-104 degrees with a virus.

The thing is...this is not the point. Jo - I think your question is a totally valid one and I hope that you bring it up with your vet. We are often answering questions about prices and once we speak with the owners one on one, they understand why the fee was what it was and how money is often saved in other places. Then they decide either to keep using us or not - totally acceptible!!
Dianna - you took Jo's question about a fee and turned it into a scathing description of an 'inept' vet (young). Actually, I often find that vet's (old) listen to clients less than recent grads. The vet should have listened to you about the drug dosing. And I see no validity in doing a neurologic exam on a sedated horse. But from your own recounting, by that point you had completely disrespected him a few times - why should he respect you?? I am sure that you are a responsible horse owner and caretaker but it doesn't make your first post any easier to swallow.

On that note...I'm out. Honestly in general I am a lighthearted, happy-go-lucky kind of gal!!

Laurie@CBF

Dec. 4, 2003, 08:30 PM

To Dianna - I will give you some "food for thought".

When I was a student a mare was referred into a referral hospital to have her left ovary removed. The referring veterinarian gave the history that the mare had a granulosa cell tumor on her left ovary. She had stallion like behavior - mounting other mares all the time. The RDVM said that he had confirmed this by ultrasound of the left ovary and a positive testosterone level.

The mare came into the hospital and had the routine pre-surgical PE and bloodwork. During her PE the surgeon made an attempt to rectally palpate and ultrasound the left ovary. He was unable to locate the left ovary (typically these ovarian tumors are larger than a normal sized ovary). Unsuccessful attempts were made to contact both the RDVM and owner to discuss this. She was scheduled to have surgery the following day. The decision was made to fast her and attempt to repeat the procedures the following day. The next day the procedures were repeated with the same result - even with a theriogenology consult. Then a discussion evolved as to other possiblities for this mares "problem" and further work-up options. Both the RDVM and owner were still unavailable (this was before cell phones). The surgeon had been recently criticized by other RDVM's for having his "own opinion" about cases that were referred to him. The surgeon elected not to wait to do any further testing or until the owners could be contacted. He decided to perform the surgery that was requested. He performed the surgery and took out a very small left ovary. He noted that the right ovary looked exactly the same - which was atypical for granulosa cell ovarian tumors. Efforts to reach the owners during the surgery was unsuccessful. The mare was recovered. On histopathology the small ovary was identified as an "ovo-testis". She was a hermaphrodite. The Pathologist's comments were that most likely the other "ovarian structure" was also an ovo-testis. The stallion like behavior would most likly continue - and it did. Dianna - would you have been a happy client with this result??

While hindsight is always 20-20 this was an amazing teaching experience for me. I will never do something that I am not comfortable with. When clients tell me "I want it done this way" - and my professional opinion is that I need more information before proceeding in that direction - I am happy to walk away from that work.

Kudos to Liz on her long post - well said.

Laurie

SunshineGA

Dec. 5, 2003, 03:59 AM

Jo- I for one did not say you weren't going to pay for the bill. Nor did I mean to imply that, so if I did, I apologize. My ranting was just for the "shock" of how much the bill was. Never taht you weren't going to pay it.

And whoever said about the vet being the new guy on the block, he probably had to jack up prices because he can't make any money...

Large animal medicine is competitive and policitcal on the client end... as you can all see here folks.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

SunshineGA

Dec. 5, 2003, 04:05 AM

BTW- I LOVE it that you DVMs are speaking up, y'all are much better at it than I am (lowly tech http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

Dianna

Dec. 5, 2003, 08:34 AM

It is every vet's right to refuse to do something or to disagree with what a client is requesting. However, when you call, schedule an appointment and are very clear about what you are doing and why ... and they schedule the appointment .... then things (barring something out of the ordinary happening "in the moment") then that is one thing.

However, if a surgeon is scheduled to do a procedure and testing demonstrates that there may be something happening other than expected ... then obviously the surgeon needs to be able to trust their gut instinct.

My comments were to demonstrate that owners need to become aware and need to have specific knowledge when owning a horse. I know that for many doctors - human and otherwise - they like to dictate and direct the series of events in the process of occurring; but, that really is not their job.

There are many times when my vet and I are working with one another (and farrier as well) where we will not have a meeting of the minds ... they are professional enough to discuss their position ... and allow me to make an informed decision, as is my right as the owner. In those instances, more times than not, I go with their judgment.

In an emergency situation where an in-the-moment decision is needed; I trust enough in the professionals I chose to work with that they will do what is in the best interest of my animal (as they know me, my belief, my circumstances, etc., etc.).

The reason this discussion escalated was due to my example of how vet bills get out-of-hand despite all.

Tin

Dec. 5, 2003, 09:07 AM

ignoring all the old vet/ new vet stuff http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'll add my little comments in here too :P (wil e-mail you later Jo!)

my old vet was WONDERFUL! He'd come out anytime and sometimes didn't even charge extra for it. He was caring, listened and explained everything. But he was burnt out and near the end you could definatly see it was taking a toll on him. When he switched from private practise to a bigger practise with multiple vets, we switched vets at the advice of our coach. This new vet (vet #2) had a "know all" listen to me and don't ask questions feel and she was expensive for the area! For 4 horses with regular spring shots and coggins our bill was close to $1,400 including the $160 visit fee (we booked in a month in advance). That was an ouch! It was more than our geldings roarer surgeries (yes, plural) at the hospital!

When my big guy developed a sticky case of conjunctivities in both his eyes that wasn't responding to OTC meds, I called the clinic where my old vet went. Not only were they pleasant polite and patient but they were concerned and sent a vet over within the hour- not what I was expecting at all. Though not my old vet, this vet (vet #3) was about the nicest person I've ever met and was thorough and patient. He was there for a good hour making sure there weren't any underlying problems. My bill was regular call fee, they only charged me for one bottle of meds (he left me with 2), the stain for his eyes and then only 20 mins of work time. It was less than the last vets call fee http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes money is an issue sometimes but I serioulsy wouldn't have minded paying so much for vet #2 if she was nice, listened and was patient with me. They are my horses and I want to know what's going on and expect alot of why's questions! Sorry but I don't like to go into things blind http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

All the vets (and the tech!) who posted here seem like wonderful vets to have! Your clients are lucky http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~ they tease you cause they like you ~

Odie222

Dec. 5, 2003, 09:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DVM2003:
You may not be aware, but there is a shortage of equine vets that is becoming very concerning to the AAEP (american association of equine practitioners). They are actively trying to recruit vet students to be interested in equine practice, but it's a hard sell compared to small animal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C if you or any of the other vets on this board, know of where to find, or have more information on this I would be very intersted in hearing it. Being that I am a sophomore in my undergrad (biology major with a pre-vet concentration) and interested in going into equine practice.

I personally have been blessed with some of the most wonderful vets, and actually my equine vet is one of the reasons I want to go it equine practice. Both this vet, and now the one I use at school are very receptive and great to interact with. The first time I met the vet I am using at school, he was out to give my horse some shots and to ultrasound a mare's leg. Well, the mare's onwer called me and was stuck in trafic and ask me to hold the mare. So the vet and I chat as her preps the mare, and as soon as he start the exam, he starts showing me everything, how to tell the differences in the tendon, muscle, etc. He didn't have to do this. I wasn't the horses owner, and he had met me what like 10 min earlier. But he took his time and did anyways, great experience for me, and you can be sure I thanked him for it.

As for the $120 call fee, do call and ask about it, or ask to speak to the vet. I have had some odd, and somewhat shocking charges before on my bills. One time my horse had a bad abcess in his hind foot, but he wasn't testing positive with the hoof testers, and after getting better with bute and then much worse after coming off the bute, including stocking up in both hind legs, a call to the vet was inorder. So after pulling the shoe off and finding the abcess, the vet wraps it and also has her intern wrap his other hind leg, even though I told her I could do it, but no problem. After the vet's inital lameness test, I told her to give him a tranquillizer, because hes been known to have very good aim with the hind leg you're not examening. So I get the bill and am very suprised to see an $8 charge for diapers?? Yes the vet wraped him foot with two diapers, but who knew regular baby diapers costed $4 a diaper! And another $17 for the "hoof bandage." And I know that elasitcon is expensive, but $32 for a roll http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif My eyes were bugging out of my head at this time. So I contiune on, $50 for the vet student to wrap my horses other hind leg (and after I told her I could do it), $15 for a half used jar of ichthammol, and $40 to pare out a pen sized diameter abcessed. At this point you add in the reasonable farm call ($30) and the bute powder ($40) and I was looking at a $200 bill for a simple abcess. But wait then the even stranger thing, there is no charge for the seditive or the iv bute she gave him?? After conversations with the vet office, (the vet wasn't available, its a 5 vet practice) nothing changed in the bill, (my only big complaints were the $8 for diapers and $50 for the leg wrap, I really just felt this was rediculous). But ohwell, I think I've more than lucked out with this clinics poor billing to make up for the odd charges on that bill (besides never billing me for that seditive and iv bute, they never billed me for a rhino/flu shot or a strangles shot, both of which I watched my horse receive, and all of which I imformed them that they didn't charge me for).

Draygonfyne

Dec. 5, 2003, 09:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Carolinela:
I think its absurd. When you are a large animal vet you know going in that its a 24/7 type deal.Horses dont get sick just between 9-5 weekdays. I was charged a $75 off hours call fee for having a vet who was ALREADY at the barn check a scratch on my horse. Total bill was $152 to comfirm he did not need a stitch and to vaporise yellow stuff I already OWNED.
Well, that vet can count me out as a customer.
As I stated to her upon receiving her bill: its high way robbery.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd have to disagree with your thoughts. Yes, large animals can get sick any time of day or night, but it does not mean that a vet has to devote their entire lives to us. If I call a vet out to the farm in an emergency (I can't wait, I'm worried, I need you here now....) and it's outside of hours I expect to pay more. THey are entitled to their own lives as well, and should be rightly compensated for allowing their customers to often come before family.

As for the call fee, did you expect to get an exam for free when someone else was paying a call fee? That doesn't seem right on your part, but I don't agree that a full call fee is charged. Our policies up here seem to be that, if the vet is treating multiple animals of various owners, everyone gets charged half of the regular call fee. That to me is reasonable for their time.

My kingdom for a horse
CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE:
www.draygonfynedesign.ca (http://www.draygonfynedesign.ca)

Ishi

Dec. 5, 2003, 11:01 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Carolinela:
I think its absurd. When you are a large animal vet you know going in that its a 24/7 type deal.Horses dont get sick just between 9-5 weekdays. QUOTE]

So, as a vet, my BF should NOT be able to have a life or get sleep, or be paid for his services and knowledge because you don't want to pay for it? That, to me at least, is absurd. No, horses, nor people, plan on getting sick/hurt, BUT, time is money and if my BF is paged at 3am for a farm call, you darn well better be sure he will be paid for it. You wouldn't go to a dry cleaner after hours and demand service would you? Why ask your vet to do it then. They are human too, they do heve (albeit limited) lives too.

J Swan, my BF went to Kansas State and had almost $100,000 of student loans graduating. He also worked through vet school. The average salery is about $35,000/year starting. Add on to that crappy conditions at farm calls, weather, and owners who are constantly looking for free or cheap services, but want the top quaility of care, and you can easily see why vets are hard pressed right now. Malpractice insurance is HUGE, and it stinks because as an owner you don't have to do what's best for your animal (ie, pre-op bloodwork, rads...) but then they can turn around and sue because the animal died or didn't get better. It is just bad medicine to guess a diagnoisis without all the facts, but it is often the case that's what the owner wants, because it is cheap.

Of coarse not all owners are this way, but the ones that sue tend to be. There are good vets and bad vets, just like any ohter field. If you don't like your vet, go to another. Get a second opinion by all means, it is just smart. It is your animal and your money, BUT, please don't think it is absurd to get paid for the work you do. My BF donates a tom of time, money, and serivces to rescue animals, and I loff him for that, but not all vets can, nor should they be expected to I think.

Love means attention, which means looking after the things we love. We call this stable management.
- George H. Morris
http://community.webshots.com/user/flycak

carosello

Dec. 5, 2003, 11:11 AM

First let me say Im glad that the horse was OK.

Second, I did not read all the replies but Im going to add one little one here.

I work PT on the weekends for a vet practice which does small animal and horses. There is a flat rate for a "farm call" of $25 within 15 miles of the clinic. After that it is another $10-15 for up to 30 miles away from the clinic. If they go further then that it is usually very steady customers. Then we have Daytime Emergency charges (working hours, squeeze you in emergency) and after hours fees. If its a weekend and ovrenight that would be the highest rate.
Jo I missed it if you mentioned what day of the week it was. Im wondering if it was an early monday morning if you got a higher rate for the weekend.
For someone to say to give them a break because it was 7:30 well that is not fair to any customers who had scheduled appts at 8 am and were put back. It was an emergency and the fees are most likely not set case by case but written down and in effect for everyone.
There are many vets refusing to do emergency calls as previously stated. We are lucky that our 3 vets rotate so nobody gets too stressed and they have 2 of every 3 weekends off plus scheduled time off during the week. They are almost the only game in town and I feel very lucky that not only do they do emergency calls but they are damn good vets to boot.

efobyrne

Dec. 5, 2003, 12:47 PM

As I said in an earlier post, I don't think I'd call $120 absurd if that is the price that it takes to keep equine vets practicing.

The horse gods must be laughing because two weeks ago I had to call in an emergency vet as my pregnant mare had an abcess on her inside upper lip that came all the way through to her muzzle. The smell was horrendous and we were worried the infection might get into her system as a whole.

Today I got the bill -- $60.00 Cdn for the regular farm call plus $165.00 for the emergency call -- in US dollars that totals about $172 dollars and change. That doesn't even include the treatment, plus the vet referred to my poor old darling as a "Rotten old mare." (Apparently there was no added charge for insults.)

I was going to ask for a new tack trunk for Christmas but I guess I'll just ask that my husband pay the bill. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

katarine

Dec. 5, 2003, 01:09 PM

Regular farm call- $25
emergency farm call-$50

Having a great vet I'm not afraid to talk to, confide in, and ponder over vet books with? Priceless.

Oh, and BTW, Mr.Katarine is an electrical contractor: $60/hr regular, $100 an hour weekends/after hours. Don't have a fit over your silly Christmas lights not coming on Saturday afternoon unless you are willing to PAY for it.

"Shoot me now! Shoot me now!"
Bugs Bunny

J Swan

Dec. 5, 2003, 01:14 PM

Folks - please don't misunderstand any of my posts - I'm not critizing the profession at all. I wanted vets to weigh in because I wanted to get their perspective as professionals and businessmen/women. I'm so glad you did.

Plumbers charge an after hours fee, so do electricians, the propane guys, the septic tank guys, why not vets? When you think of it - the vets charge is probably a lot less than the lucky guy who gets to come out Christmas Eve and pump your overflowing septic tank.

"I have observed in women of her type a tendency to regard all athletics as inferior forms of fox-hunting”- Evelyn Waugh

lame joe

Dec. 5, 2003, 01:17 PM

SunshineGA - there is NOTHING lowly about being a tech!!! I know you were just kidding, but I don't know any vets who think of techs as lowly. Vets are so greatful for good help that techs are worth their weight in gold.

SunshineGA

Dec. 5, 2003, 01:54 PM

The after hours thing-
If the vet gets there at 7:30 and his hours start at 8... why shouldn't he give you a break? Well probably because he most likely has an appointment at 8am and its probably on the other side of the county that your barn is on. So.... he tends to your emergency which can last anywhere from 30min to an hour and a half or 2 hours. THEN he can start his scheduled appointments. So he is anywhere from 30 min to a few hours behind schedule before he even starts his frist appointment. The vet Ive worked for on a normal day, no emergencies, doesn't get home till 8:30-9pm. Throw in an emergency (or two... causae they ALL happen on the same day... Murphys Law, gotta love it) and the vet doesn't get home till 10-11 or so. And if you ask me... thats after hours. edited to add: then on top of that he has the lingering possibilty of an emergency in the middle of the night or early in the morning...

Lame joe- youre right I was kidding http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but Im not as smart as you guys... yet! Look out cause I'm comin up! Applyin to vet school next year http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

[This message was edited by SunshineGA on Dec. 05, 2003 at 06:04 PM.]

Xanthoria

Dec. 5, 2003, 02:20 PM

I adore and trust my vet, pay my bills in full and on time, but this was my last bill; for treatment on a monday afternoon.

$95 wound exam
$42 1 shot of sedative
$100 antibiotics
$35 call out fee
$25 West Nile shot
$40 two other annual vaccines
$35 bandaging (took 1 gob icthammol, 1 wrap of tape and about 1 minute or less)
----------
$372 total for an infected cut, total time spent about 20 minutes.

He has also been known to charge me $190 for routine annual shots that took 20 seconds to administer (at a clinic no less, with many others there) and over $300 for a simple tooth float.

http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Dec. 5, 2003, 02:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SunshineGA:
The after hours thing-
If the vet gets there at 7:30 and his hours start at 8... why shouldn't he give you a break? ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not what I am asking either... just wanted to know if this was the "norm." As I have stated several times now, the most "emergency" fee I have been charged is around $40... on top of a typically $45 - $30 call fee. $120 just seemed like a lot to me.

TODAY'S BLESSING: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch. AMEN

SunshineGA

Dec. 5, 2003, 02:50 PM

Jo- that post was in response to Belladonna's post

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>

Seems as if he could cut you a little slack on a 7:30am call. I certainly HOPE you didn't get him out of bed at that hour http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif What time do his normal hours start?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for the misunderstanding! I know you were just curious about the norm. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif $120 is steep but for an emergency, I'd pay it! For my dog (who has had many emergencies that **always** happen in the middle of the night) I pay $75 walk-in emergency fee + the regular exam fee (which is around $50) and this is at a clinic where the vets are on duty (so theyve gotten their rest, and know they have to work) and don't have to come out to a barn in the middle of the night. And thats just for a dog... his last emergency ran me $2200... with a 15% discount for being a tech in the area and most of his after care was done by moi. Outrageous? Possibly. Is my beloved companion alive? Yep.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Member/founder of the IHSA clique!

Ishi

Dec. 5, 2003, 03:31 PM

I dunno lame joe, I'm with SunshineGA on the lowly tech thing. The stories I could tell ya having worked for two rotten vets! One sent me to the hospital after accidently injecting me with enough Telazol for a rather large dog. What fun I had trying to keep a straight face and explain to the hospital staff that I DO NOT do drugs, it was an accident, and I'm a vet tech, that's why I'm in scrubs http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif That was a rather painful and humiliating incident to say the least.

I loff my job now though, much better. I just wish more clinics realized the techs can and will make them money and relieve a ton of the work, if only they are treated well.

Love means attention, which means looking after the things we love. We call this stable management.
- George H. Morris
http://community.webshots.com/user/flycak

BelladonnaLily

Dec. 5, 2003, 03:45 PM

SunshineGA...you do have a point. But my uber-expensive vet has called plenty of times to say he has an emergency and he has to reschedule me so as NOT to throw his schedule too far out of whack. Do I complain? Nope. Because I hope he'd do the same for me (and I'm sure he would). And he has a young family waiting at home and I totally understand his need to see them once in a while. This happened once when I was waiting for him to palpate a mare who would hopefully be bred the following day...I was the last call of the day. I waited for hours (after 9pm) when I finally found his cell phone number and called him. He was at home. His &*(&() secretary evidently forgot to call me and tell me he wasn't coming. (bybeegirl can verify that...I believe she was hanging out at the barn with me that night). So I guess that's why I personally would be upset if he charged me a $120 emergency fee at 7:30 in the morning. I KNOW he's not getting home at 11pm. He's adjusting all the routine visits to work his schedule out. I know all vets don't do this but it's just my perspective based on my experience with this vet.

Holidays, 2 am...really "inconvenient" times...yes, I'd suck up the $120 and be nice about it.

cgn38

Dec. 5, 2003, 05:54 PM

I pay $80 for an emergency farm call fee. I might add that I gladly pay $80 for an emergency farm call fee at 2am on a subzero snowy night. I believe my vet's care and knowledge is well worth the emergency fee.

onetempies

Dec. 5, 2003, 07:18 PM

Since my vet bills are piling up in my drawer with a few other bills yet to be paid... I'm going by memory here. But regular farm call is $35 (scheduled OR "emergency"), follow up farm call is $25 (boosters, suture removal, etc.), and emergency is $75. Just to walk into MSU is $100 and that is only on a referral basis. The fees may be slightly lower for me since my horses are less than 5 miles from the clinic itself (which takes only small animals, equine vet is travel only). The owner (actually a husband/wife team... husband is equine vet, wife is small animal vet in the clinic)... he only lives about 2 or 3 miles from my house as well as my trainer's.

Fees seem to depend on location of the vet and owner plus mileage from clinic.

My vet? I loff him. He also has two other equine vets in the office that are available for emergency calls while he's on the road doing regularly scheduled calls. One gal is a "newbie"... well maybe 2 years out of school. The other gal is easy to work with and talk to. The clinic knows me quite well and I'm lucky that they're patient with me on paying my bills off! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif They know exactly WHERE to find me though if they stop seeing payments from me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif All of them know where I live, where I keep my mare with my trainer, and where I work. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

My regular vet (the owner), he's just great to work with. I've "used" him a number of times while he's been out for other horses and he has not charged me for the chat sessions or quick look overs for my mare (during pregnancy last year and now closing in on 90 days post colic surgery). Last time he was out (3 weeks ago or so) neither of us were having a good time with my colt. Getting a NG tube down a 6.5 month old colt is NOT fun. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That call was worth every penny because I seriously thought this boy was dying... but he IS better now after going through an ulcer treatment period!

I do think $120 is high... but as somebody else pointed out, guess it all depends on what charges are in your area AND what your other vet options are.

Best of luck in the recovery! Colic surgery bites... this was my 2nd one with the same mare (Sept 15th this year). Her first was Feb. 2001.

*Member of the bad shoulder clique* (open surgery was 1-6-03)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Bay colt by Lacoste 5-6-03
Trying to be Superman at 4 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Sep/20039285432554183964022.jpg)
Chevy weaned at 4.5 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Sep/20039281435919508498655.jpg)
Next to me at 6 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Nov/200311162938112870709318.jpg)
Head Shot at 6 months (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Nov/200311168425229401877889.jpg)

Peggy

Dec. 5, 2003, 09:05 PM

I've seen higher and lower call charges. Depends on the vet, the day, the time, the distance, and who knows what else. One thing I've noticed is that there seems to be more variation on the fees for various items than there is in the typical bill total, if that makes any sense. As an example, our current vet charges more for a call fee than some I've used, but only tacked on $10 extra to come out early on the Saturday of a 3-day weekend.

My mom's rule of thumb is that if you get a vet out on an emergency call after hours you're going to end up with a bill that's at least $200, no matter how it's itemized. Worth it -- you bet!

vali

Dec. 5, 2003, 09:39 PM

$120 emergency call fee doesn't seem that unreasonable to me, but Xanthoria, your vet's charges do. I'm happy to have a vet who will come out if I say I need it, and I know she doesn't make anywhere near what she deserves. I think what she charges for an emergency call is around $100, almost double her rates for a regular farm call. On the other hand, she's spent hours at my barn to pin down tricky lameness issues, and she doesn't charge me extra for that. She also will write me a prescription for adequan or other drugs, which saves a bundle.

SunshineGA

Dec. 6, 2003, 05:36 AM

Ishi- Hahaha! Glad that hasn't happened to me yet! Although at the small animal hosp... sometimes I wish it would!!!!!!

I have landed my butt in the hosp before with a nice cat bite that went through my finger nail! It was lovely... It was so infected and nasty (sorry guys!) and the infection spread down my hand and into my wrist and was starting to go into my arm (I was finally able to convince my pparents and boyfriend that yes, I had to go to the ER!) that was in july and still havent gotten my thumbnail all the way back (it ended up splitting in half and coming off!) The vet got it worse though since the cat bit into her tendon sheath (so she had to have surgery) AND she developed a resistant clostridia infection! She was in the hospital for about 2 weeks on IV antibiotics and she lost about 12-15lbs in those 2 weeks.

All on an EMERGENCY after hours visit http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Ishi

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:19 AM

Oh SunshineGA, that stinks, I'd much rather be bit by any dog twice before one cat!

With all this talk of ER bills, I bet your bill was more then $120 just to walk into the ER huh http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Love means attention, which means looking after the things we love. We call this stable management.
- George H. Morris
http://community.webshots.com/user/flycak

SunshineGA

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:36 AM

ER bill more than $120? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif yup! you betcha. Luckily I have good insurance ($50 copay...I reckon that's good) but geuss who had to pick up the rest of the tab? The clinic. Even though I told the clinic owner not to pay but he said he felt he had to since I was on the job.

BTW- no I didn't file workman's comp (honestly didn't think of it and apparently its a pain in the @$$), so yes clinic owner paid ER bill and meds.

So I'm sorta OT here sorry guys!

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

Flash44

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:39 AM

My vet showed up yesterday to do some innoculations and didn't have any needles or syringes!!!!!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

peggyg

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:48 AM

I've only read the first page, but I will come back to read the rest later. I'm finding a little bit of consolation in hearing that there are other people who are being priced out of vet services.

I've had the same vet for about 5 years, since I moved to the area. I recently had a lameness exam and got my bill. I was so frustrated with how much I was charged for this--and with how many procedures and shots that my vet can "recommend" now that she has a clinic to support--that I put my horse up for sale.

WWCountry

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:57 AM

I haven't read every post yet either, but I don't think $120 is outrageous. I'm just thrilled to have a vet come out to care for my injured/sick horse. This is where major medical insurance is a big value and has saved my pocket book many times.

There's no getting around the fact that horses are expensive animals to maintain and most vets are in this profession because they love animals and not for the money. They need to have personal lives as well. Their time is money.

SunshineGA

Dec. 6, 2003, 07:33 AM

There are probably new procedures and shots that can be recommended b/c of new technology or new vaccination options.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"

DVM2003

Dec. 6, 2003, 08:06 AM

odie-

I believe there is a recent blurb on AAEP and there new PR programs to attract vet students to equine work in a recent issue of the Horse...I looked in the december issue and it's not in there, maybe try the website - and I'll keep looking!
Cathy

AmandaDVM

Dec. 6, 2003, 02:47 PM

$120 is about par. Vets undercharged severely for so long, I think for some it is somewhat shocking as rates are raised into a more reasonable rage.

"Well behaved women rarely make history"

NAHuber

Dec. 6, 2003, 02:50 PM

Personally, I do not find $120.00 absurd. I just paid nearly $300.00 for an emergency vet clinic visit for one of my dogs. I had to drive her there myself (no house call) and she got a blood test, Subcutaneous fluids and medication for vomiting. My emergency large animal vet calls usually end up to be about the same..but include a house call.

PaintBy#s

Dec. 6, 2003, 03:58 PM

I paid 350$ for a call...I called BEFORE "afterhours" and he came in the "after hours" category...He also said he charged 250 every hour...

This was a special, but normal case..and NOT my vet...

I did feel that was absurd.

So many sayings about life! The most important? LIVE IT UP!

Dianna

Dec. 6, 2003, 04:50 PM

This afternoon I was chatting with my farrier and a dear friend of mine about the $120 fee and whether or not owners should take a more active and aggressive role in dealing with their horses well being and care. They are just as hands on and reminded me that vets from the track are more likely to appreciate a well informed and specific client ... also, most older vets as well.

I liken this to young attorneys - they come out of law school with a big bill and a lot to prove not realizing that those of us that have been out there in the trenches will be teaching them far more than they will teach us .. and we are all responsible for teaching our new and novice horse owners. I somehow wonder if this wouldn't be the case for most long-term vet techs as well.

I think that when we try to compare an after hours vet call with an after hours electrician or plumber, you are comparing apples to oranges. With a plumber or an electrician, you have the option of turning off the utility and waiting... of course you may be cold or thirsty; but, you won't die. So, their charges seem to make more sense (not that I think they are not absurb too).

But with a sick animal, you don't have a choice - it is life and death. I think I would have less problem with a larger charge that includes the call, the drive time and the examination than I would the ala carte billing style.

Ghazzu

Dec. 6, 2003, 05:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dianna:
I think that when we try to compare an after hours vet call with an after hours electrician or plumber, you are comparing apples to oranges. With a plumber or an electrician, you have the option of turning off the utility and waiting... of course you may be cold or thirsty; but, you won't die. So, their charges seem to make more sense (not that I think they are not absurb too).

But with a sick animal, you don't have a choice - it is life and death. I think I would have less problem with a larger charge that includes the call, the drive time and the examination than I would the ala carte billing style.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you lost me here--since the vet is *more* critical, they're entitled to charge *less*?

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

elizabeth Callahan

Dec. 6, 2003, 05:20 PM

My 2 cents worth. I am an owner of a small animal/equine practice and have been in practice 19 years. We cover over a 100 mile radius from our hospital and charge accordingly for the distance. If within 20 miles, trip fee is 30, if 50 miles, trip fee is up to 65. Emergency fee - whether it is 6pm, midnight or 7 am is 50 additional, and if we have to drop everything during the day and run ( ie foaling emergency, severe laceration, etc), then it is 50 for a daytime emergency as well. This is just the call fees - the exam, treatment, etc is additional.
Is it too expensive for some people - you bet. Are there some people who shouldn't have horses because they don't even have enough money for themselves - you bet. I don't apologize for my prices . I employ 4 other vets, only 2 of which want to or will see equine emergencies -
Did I enter vet school knowing that I would have to do this - yes. After 18 years, i still see emergencies which have eaten up a lot of my personal and family time. Knowing that it was a lifestyle I chose doesn't mean I shouldn't be compensated for my time. My practice is one of the few in the area that ALWAYS has a doctor on call and available 24/7, 365 days a year. If you need us, we are there.
So, do I think that fee is reasonable - yes, very. As a few other posters have noted - it is getting very difficult to find a practitioner that will see any emergency ( large or small) - Many new graduates are not willing to make thae kind of sacrifices in time and family that a lot of us took for granted. So, if you find someone who will see your emergencies at all, count yourself lucky and hope we can convince new grads to do the same

Dianna

Dec. 6, 2003, 06:08 PM

Isnt' it funny how when you are typing something it makes sense; but, then when you read it, it is no longer quite as clear?

Anyway ... since we have the option of not calling an electrician or a plumber after hours, of course they are going to sock it to you ... you want the "luxury of their help" you are going to pay for it.

With horses, they don't understand 9-5, and since the majority of owners work, their time with their horses isn't during the 9-5 time frame either (right or wrong). Therefore, by its very nature, large animal vets normal hours perhaps should be reversed ....

By the way, I have actually paid my vet more than billed on a specific occasion when the horse was so rude that he and I ended up on the floor ... it was a client's horse who was rude beyond belief ... he charged a pretty price and I sent an extra $50.00 .... of course, I didn't get anything "special" for my own bruises.

Laurie@CBF

Dec. 6, 2003, 08:32 PM

Hey Dianna,

I'll sleep during the day and wait all night by the phone for your "emergency" if you guarantee me that I will be able to work all night and generate enough income to make a living. In reality it doesn't happen... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Laurie

sid

Dec. 6, 2003, 10:41 PM

I am very pro-active in all of my horses' care and have a lot of vet tech background...yet I'd still pay twice that if my vet upped his price. And his emergency fee IS about $120.

Coming out in the middle of the night, working in sometimes harsh conditions with a sick or fractious animal of that size and strength, or helping a mare with severe dystocia who, without his expertise might die along with her foal is more than commendable...it's damned heroic.

Good "field" vets are grossly underpaid in my opinion.

Now, I have 23 horses and I know I could save money..but a good vet deserves every penny for the things they do at the drop of a hat, for our my horses.

It's also a dangerous career and they should be compensated for the risk involved, beside their veterinary expertise, IMO.

Susan Doner, Little Bull Run Farm. Standing Boleem, Argosy and King's Camelot. www.littlebullrun.com (http://www.littlebullrun.com)

teal tea

Dec. 7, 2003, 04:04 AM

I once paid about $80 for a vet call. B/c the vet was coming from so far off, in town, and b/c it was only for one horse, they told me it would be about that much. They did warn me it would be expensive, though. I hope Miss Mare gets better.

RockinHorse

Dec. 7, 2003, 04:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>a good vet deserves every penny for the things they do at the drop of a hat, for our my horses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said sid!

I am very fortunate to have fabulous vets who I love and appreciate. I gladly pay emergency call fees when needed. I do not beleive that the $120 is out of line for a before/after hours call for amny of the reasons stated in earlier posts.

~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~

teal tea

Dec. 7, 2003, 04:26 AM

After reading the whole thread: I think it depends on the situation about what you should be charged. B/c I was out in the middle of nowhere, I understand that vets will tack on the gas prices. I also understand that one of the vets I've used cannot make the time to come out b/c I was/am so far away. He's also in high demand b/c he's so good. He's never offered not to treat the horse, he's just said that he could not see it unless I trailered in.
I do think that there are some vets out just for the $, as in any other profession, however, there are some really nice and caring vets. My most recent experience was a canine emergency. The dog had to stay for 4 days. My vet though is great. She knows I'm on a budget and she always tries to cut down on costs for me. B/c the bill was so high, think small downpayment on a horse http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif , she told me not to worry about the $, but she knew me and was sure I would pay the balance off. I've followed this particular vet everywhere, b/c I think she is so gifted and caring. I think that if she ever moved out of state, I'd go to her still. So for all the vets out there like her, Thanks. I do hope my doggie gets better however. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

Bravo

Dec. 7, 2003, 11:22 AM

Another vet tech chiming in here! I work for a equine surgical referal hospital. Our overhead is enormous. People who bring their horses to us expect the very best and we need to be able to provide that. Just to keep the place up and running is expensive with our equipment, drugs, fluids, feed, bedding and of course, the staff to take care of the horses. It is very hard to find vet techs with horse experience and ones that will work our ridiculous hours for what we get paid (and I've been a certified vet tech for almost 14 years, you'd cringe at what I make!!!)
Another thing that you get billed for you might not think of is the people that DON'T ever pay their bills. As a society, we all pay for these dead beats with higher interest rates, etc., but when someone walks out our doors, with their payment plan in hand and then never sends us another dime, you bet we ALL suffer for it.
What astounds me about this is that people can be so wonderful when you are doing emergency surgery to save their horse, are so grateful, then just walk away from it. It costs clinics money and time to go after these people in court.
I'm not saying that a certain 'charge' is added to everyone' bill, but money that we are owed doesn't help pay our bills, so adds to the overhead.
Another thing about buying drugs elsewhere. We have a limited amount of certain drugs in our hospital that we use and ones that we will send home with our patients that need it. Our vet gladly fills out scripts for people to get their drugs elsewhere. Again, that reduces our overhead. Some of these places that carry drugs for much less money buy them in quantities a vet hospital could never use up in several years. Of course they can get it cheaper and sell it cheaper. When you have to buy smaller quantities, you have to pay more for it and most likely, the shipping won't be free either. Thats why you pay more for it at the vet hospital than through a supply. Drug costs also vary a LOT. We recently had one of our oral powdered antibiotics DOUBLE in price for US. We HAD to pass on that increase or we wouldn't have even cleared what we paid for it. We don't mark our drugs up that much and you need to consider that there is a staff member paid to order the drugs, keep the inventory, check them in when they come, etc, etc, etc,. Also, some of the drugs used in hospitals are regulated by the goverment and have to be carefully logged and accounted for. All takes extra effort, expense and time.
Our hospital also does not charge for most consultations, whether the patient ends up with us or not. We techs also spend lots of time on the phone educating clients and answering questions about patients that have gone home. We don't charge extra for that as we feel it is part of our service to our clients.
And finally, I must address Dianna's issue. While she sounds like a perfectly competant owner, there are lots of owners out there that just 'think' they are and who really haven't a clue. Since I have been a tech, there have been increased numbers of horse lovers who have recently become horse owners. Many of these people don't know a lot about horses and its partly our job in the vet field to help educate them. That being said, lots of these newer owners come to our hospital thinking they know everthing and try to dictate to us what and how things should be done. Usually the problem they came in for is not really the problem at all, but they are inexperienced enough not to know the difference. Not to bash new owners at all, but if Dianna had come to our clinic with the attitude that seems to have come accross, we (not knowing her) may have treated her similarly (though not doing a neruo exam on a sedated horse!) What I guess I am saying, is that unless you have a specific relationship with your vet, they aren't going to know how much you know, (or don't in a lot of cases) and we have to assume that the patient is going to tell us a whole lot more. Exams are there to give vets a baseline from their point of view and help protect everyone in the long run. You have to have a starting point to begin any kind of treatment. To do otherwise, in mho in malpractice.
Sorry this got so long!!
Jamie

lilblackhorse

Dec. 7, 2003, 11:34 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wallace:
This is where major medical insurance is a big value and has saved my pocket book many times.
QUOTE]

I must look around for better insurance then, because mine (and I would assume most) won't cover the farm call nor the emergency call costs.

Elippses Users Clique........Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group, "I hate stall rest"and now the "Better riding through Chemistry Clique"

"What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

blaster

Dec. 7, 2003, 01:08 PM

My horse ran through a fence early last June on a Saturday morning. By 9am on was on the phone and calling all the vets I normally used. Out of 5 phone calls, I finally got one to come out. The rest couldn't be bothered. I was so appalled that they wouldn't come out. I'd never skipped on paying or even winched at paying a check! That day, I would have paid ANYTHING to get a vet out for my gelding's leg.

$120 bucks, heck, that is in the noise for the amount of cash I spend on him in month! I agree, why is it that people only look at the purchase price of a horse? I pay way more in shoes, board, lessons, supplements etc in one year than than I ever paid for him.

As a side note, I the vet that did come out that day earned her keep and she is now my full-time, regular vet...maybe a lesson to be learned?

millie moo

Dec. 7, 2003, 02:55 PM

Our vet charges $65 for a scheduled call, and $100 for emergency calls after hours.

Holy rascal

Dec. 7, 2003, 03:34 PM

I have not read all the other posts yet. However, I must chime in. My vet charged me $90 for an emergency visit on a Sunday to stitch up a laceration. I would have paid $120 for an emergency call to my vet in a flash. Horses are our pets and they can be expensive. You must know this before deciding to buy one. A small animal emergency in my area is $85, just to walk in. That is me transporting my pet to the hospital. Not my vet driving to me when I have an emergency. I know it's not cheap but I gladly pay the bill when I receive their excellent service!

peggyg

Dec. 7, 2003, 08:32 PM

I am not sure whether I think that $120 is too much or not. I do agree that vets have to make money. What I don't agree with is vets charging the limit to what they think is the going rate. My last bill was ridiculous, but it wasn't that any one thing was huge, but that every little thing is charged to the highest going rate.

My problem is that I am a good client. I stay up to date, I don't argue, and I pay my bill. I've also been known to spend for extracuricular vet work. It used to be that when she didn't have a huge practice, it seemed like she did not run every procedure in the book--I trusted her judgement--and now I still leave things to her judgement and I get every procedure in the book and every possible preventative measure. I got a call from her office wanting to give a shot for a disease that is not even in my state. I checked it out with a microbiologist and with other vets and determined that it wasn't necessary. I had a lameness exam recently and another vet in the office came to my barn. The vet did the exam and then refused to do x-rays "in the field." What kind of vet doesn't do x-rays? And, believe me, it's not like I board in a ramshackle barn without electricity, water and an unmanageable horse. This vet also knew exactly why she was coming to my barn. I had to have another vet come out for a whole new lameness exam (even though the two vets had discussed my horse) and I was charged for every single thing.

I genuinely like my vet, she's nice and does a crackerjack job, but I am especially frustrated at the moment and while my problems seem small, I have been experiencing a growing frustration, feeling like I am paying for all her bells and whistles. I don't think that I am being intentionally bled for cash, but I am certainly more suspicious when costs go up (compared to other professionals in the area) or when the list of "preventative" measures becomes too long for me to even keep track of.

Apples and oranges: talked to a friend of mine who is a doctor, a specialist in fact so he spent extra time in residency. ($$ I remember him being surprised finishing residency when doctor's incomes decreased.) Apparently, the on call inconvenience does not really matter to medicare, because they pay LESS when doctors see people on an emergency basis in the hospital. I believe that's ICU too. I believe he said the rational was that, in the hospital doctors don't have to pay for the office overhead. Sometimes logic does not exactly correspond to a pay schedule . . . otherwise teachers would be making more.

Kestrel

Dec. 8, 2003, 01:00 AM

I guess I somehow ended up in vet heaven without even knowing it. I have never called a vet and not had them get to the barn within hours, sometimes they slip me in and I have to hurry to get there. I always seem to have a shared call charge, even when I think I'm the only one with a horse being seen. I'm probably a pain with the questions I ask, and with writing down the follow-up instructions and making them spell stuff. I always want to see everything. I do try to help when I can, holding x-ray plates and fractious horses (my own or anyone else's). I've even had a vet come at night, treat the colicing horse and then go get a trailer and haul the horse to the hospital 30+ miles away. He did that during a day call too, when the horse broke the bone holding his tooth in. When I got to the hospital, my vet was loading the now repaired horse into the trailer and took him home for me. Either I earned lots of good karma in a previous life, or the vets I work with are all really great people.
I remember a previous thread about not being able to get a vet to come to an emergency call. $120 if my horse needs treatment NOW doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I sincerely doubt I could get my own Doctor to come to my house for that, day or night.

Dare to Dream

Dec. 8, 2003, 12:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kestrel:
$120 if my horse needs treatment NOW doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I so agree with you on that! I am a MAJOR miser, but when I am in an emergency situation, I don't care what the cost, get here and fix my horse! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My vet is $105 for an after hours/emergency call. 120 seems pretty reasonable, but I think it depends on the area. I live in a big city so the mileage could be one reason for the call charge.

Jaegermonster

Dec. 8, 2003, 03:21 PM

Hey think about what a wealth of knowlege our vets are! They're General Practitioners, Internists, OB/GYN, pediatrics, orthopedics, podiatrists, optometrists, all kinds of surgeons, and on and on and on....it would take you a week to be seen by all those people to get yourself checked out, yet we expect our vets to do it at all hours of the day and night and in all kinds of weather, and in the middle of a field no less!...I don't have alot of money either but I will do whatever I can do for my horses, and my vet is the best! He has come every time I have called (but he knows me well enough to know I don't call for BS) and has always been very thorough...he doesn't come cheap, but I never felt overcharged.....but they have lives and kids and families and Pee Wee football and all that stuff they do on their time off too...we are very lucky to have them at all

When the going gets tough, the tough grab mane and kick on!

Chief2

Dec. 8, 2003, 04:00 PM

The emergency call fee for us is an extra $65 on top of the regular barn call charge.

exodusfarms

Dec. 8, 2003, 05:45 PM

I don't think a $120 call charge is absurd...fortunatly, my vet only charges $65.00. Coming from the perspective of a medical professional, however, this is a surprise to me! I don't know how they can afford to do it. I am in independent practice as an RN, and I can tell you after fuel, insurance, malpractice insurance, business overhead, etc. these charges are not unreasonable. I left a great job with great benefits years ago because of the on-call situation there-while I was paid to carry the beeper, and paid per visit when I was called out, it just wasn't worth the money to have my sleep or my dinner or my family time interupted for something that could have been taken care of during business hours more often than not. I have a lot of respect for equine practitioners who make late evening/early am emergency calls. From my perspective, they certainly earn every cent they make!

airsabove

Dec. 8, 2003, 08:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kestrel:
$120 if my horse needs treatment NOW doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I sincerely doubt I could get my own Doctor to come to my house for that, day or night.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I took my daughter in for her well baby check-up today. The exam fee was $110, and we hauled in http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jsalem

Dec. 9, 2003, 05:03 AM

I am very grateful that my vet is willing to forego sleep and a personal life to rush to my horses' sides. In an emergency, $120 is nothing.

I have seen my vet bleary eyed (on his 2nd or 3rd emergency call of the night) doing his very best in the middle of the night. I don't know why he does it- oh yeah, he's a doctor. But I'm grateful. He's entitled to make a living. And I trust that his fee is fair because I trust him.

"Everyone has special circumstances. Trot on....."

katarine

Dec. 9, 2003, 09:20 AM

sigh, the after hours plumbers and electricians are humans too- they are not SOCKING IT TO YOU, as someone posted, when you rouse them in the middle of the night or over the weekend.

sorry, but as the other half of a master electrician, that hurt my feelings.

"Shoot me now! Shoot me now!"
Bugs Bunny

Wonder Why

Dec. 9, 2003, 09:27 AM

Funny, or not so funny. I have just been researching a recent vet bill myself. It was an emergency call and my vet was out of town. The service that was taking his calls was too far for me at the time so I used the regular barn vet. Long story short, horse was euthanized as there was no other choice. Week later, got the bill. Was floored. It was about $500 more than I expected. So, started calling about fees. My old equine vets left the large animal practice and are only small animal. They chose to do this because they were losing $$$ with the big animals. They were a large and very successful practice (client wise). They gave away about $300 K in large animal practice but
cleared (profit) $25 K more this past year than in any previous years. I was talking to them today and they felt that $120 would have to be a minimum call charge for them to make any $ on the big animals.

We have seen 6 large animal vets quit the biz in just the lakes region of NH. This is a small area and equine vets are at a premium. There aren't many left and I think we all have to face the harsh reality of much higher bills in the very near future.(

Kellsboro Jack

Dec. 9, 2003, 10:13 AM

I'm wondering if any practices have actually taken the time to publish, on an annual basis, and distribute to their enrolled clientele a basic rate chart so that everyone knows what to expect? Being pro-active goes a long way to ensuring smooth relationships. It doesn't have to be every service offered but maybe just the most common items performed. I pay my bills and never say boo to whatever comes in the mail so this isn’t a posting from a disgruntled consumer.

However, when I have spring/fall workups I really don’t know what exactly I will pay (just a ballpark idea) until it’s done. Hours of business, off-hour fees for visits and the like all should be known by the customer. If a vet decides to cut you a break, why I have no idea, from the published rates then so be it.

I think Vet practices like many largely cash-based business [equine insurance largely being moot] being upfront is the best business policy. If a customer (someone who is in your d-base as a regular) knows what to expect then the “debate” over charges isn’t there. So what if XYZ practice across town learns of your rates? This isn’t Wal-Mart and customers who “shop” vet services on price are really customers I’d care little to have. So what if a recipient who gets the mailing thinks some rates are too high? They should have the wherewithal to appreciate that you, the vet, are not trying to spring a surprise later.

Just an idea of course.

Nikki^

Dec. 9, 2003, 12:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dianna:
I think it is criminal the charges most vets bill before they even lay eyes on the horse. While I realize vet school is expensive and equipment is expensive, I think their outrageous bills are the reason so many people cannot take better care of their animals.

I had a vet say once (while I was standing there) how frustrating it is for him that people wait so long to call or don't call ... and I looked him point blank in the eyes and said that it isn't surprising considering what the average person has to pay to just have the vet look at their horse. Even if you are making good money, how long does it take for the average horse owner to earn $120 ???

I took one of my horses to a clinic to have stifle x-rays done. I called ahead and was blunt - I'm coming for x-rays and that is it. I don't want your vet looking at them, giving me an opinion or anything other than taking an x-ray. When I got there, the vet (young) jerked the shank out of my hands, and proceeded to do flexion tests ... I quickly stopped him and reminded him I wasn't interested in his input or opinion that I was only there for x-rays. My husband was mortified; but, I didn't care. Then the vet tried to tell me the horse was worse after flexion ... and I asked him which horse he was looking at.

The horse was a bit upset, so I asked the vet to lightly sedate him. When I saw what he was going to use, I stopped him and said, no, just give him 1/2 of that... he doesn't have a normal reaction to sedatives and that much will lay him out. He didn't listen, and needless to say, it took all of us to keep this horse up on his feet.

We got the x-rays and there was nothing remarkable, so I asked the young vet to block the hocks (but again explained I didn't want an exam - I only wanted them blocked). Now, we have a horse that is still pretty groggy ... and this young vet decides to spin him around to test for EPM ... before I could stop him, my horse was on the ground (literally, sitting on his butt!).

Well, needless to say, my vet showed up right as I was teaching this young kid how to use four letter words in new and creative combinations!! My vet laughed and asked if I didn't make myself clear about not wanting his help or input and if I cleared the horse getting as much sedation as he gave.

Well, along came the bill (while I was still fumming mad) with tons of "extra" charges. I borrowed the vets pen, crossed out that which I did not authorize and then wrote a check for the rest. My parting comments were ... please, sue me, and I'll be happy to see you in Court.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for you! I had the same freaking problem with Auburn vet school. I made an appointment for Stifle x-rays and said that I WANTED ONLY x-rays! When I got thee, I requested that I do not want the students near my horse. The vets came and wanted to do a flex test and blocks. I said, "no, I want stifle x-rays." Then they contained on that they don't know the horse and must to a full exam to see what is wrong. So I said, "the last time you looked at him you said that he had navicular and he'll never be sound. Then you gave him Adequin injections without my approval and racked up a 700 bill."

They did the blocks and said it was his felt lock. They let the students Handel him and they didn't give Kintero any respect. I about killed those students. Did injection, x-rays and ultrasounds. All came up normal. DUH I SAID STIFLE!!! But that was 250 bucks. Horse still lame and I brought him back up. Then they did more injections and blocked his pastern joint. He was sound. The neuromuscular massage vet looked at him and said his muscles were knotted up due to the injury. Did therapy and the horse was comfortable. Vet bill: 300 for doing less work!
Asked about a Chiropractor. Regular vet was totally against it, but I took him to one anyway since the chemical treatment from the vet weren't working. Chiropractor found out that his Sacrum was out, pushed it back in and the horse stopped dragging his toe. He went from a 4+ lame to a 1.

Go figure.

Kioko (http://www.geocities.com/area51/crater/5267/HeartofGold.html)

Look up your TB's bloodlines (http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/)

INoMrEd

Dec. 9, 2003, 02:16 PM

My last emergency vet bill the emergency call fee was $35.00 on top of the normal $40.00 for a total of $75.00 for the call fee.

I thought it was reasonable.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - DAVE BARRY

DVM2003

Dec. 9, 2003, 02:46 PM

For those of you who bring horses to a teaching hospital and then do not want students touching their horse I respectfully wonder why you're going to a teaching hospital in the first place.

As I tell clients that come to our teaching hospital...we may not be fast but we're thorough. I know teaching hospitals are slow..but they are also often have the best vets and best equipment in the area. So if the students handling your horse truely bother you, you may be better served by a private referral practice - which today have much of the same expertise and toys!!

lame joe

Dec. 9, 2003, 03:06 PM

I won't post, I won't post, I won't post...ahhhh! I'm posting-

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> DUH I SAID STIFLE!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And it was the sacrum?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> pushed it back in <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

strong!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> He went from a 4+ lame to a 1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A 5 degree lameness means non-weight bearing/broken bone/abscess/septic joint lame. A 4/5 degree lameness means lame at the walk.

I'm not knocking chiropractors. I know Steve Engle, who works on all of the top horses, and he would laugh at this story.

Well said DVM2003. I had thought this thread was back on track in terms of its original point which was concerning an emergency house call.

ShowJumps

Dec. 9, 2003, 03:22 PM

Large animal vets have it rough. It can be cold, windy or 2am they show up concerned and competent.
I wish I had been so lucky when I was taken to the hospital (via ambulance) after Mardi did a triple lutz followed by a sit spin on my arm. Two hours in the hospital and they gave me pills and put a sling on my arm then sent me home. Too bad they never cared to CLEAN the wound!!!!!! (I was too out of it to notice) I almost lost my right arm to a minor wound and had to endure a long surgery (w/out drugs) to fix it.... Sorry still bitter and in litigation...
I did have a questionable vet experience recently. I had my JRT, Fudge, nutered. The man who has been my vet retired and sold his practice. I went to them. $195.00 for this routine procedure. While having Bob gelded by my horsey vet was only $125.... Go figure... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I need an intervention...

Carolinela

Dec. 9, 2003, 03:39 PM

Dragon and Ishi,

If you read my post you will notice that it was $75 off hour fee, this means that there was also a $35 charge for the visit, which I would have been happy to pay or split.

I am an owner who has a call the vet policy because one of my mare is colic prone and I do not want to take a chance. This same horse has cost me $3,000 alone this year for tendon problems--and she is a pet not a competition horse. I do not mind paying, I have insurance for the big stuff. Of course if a vet came out late at night, early morning, I would gladly pay more. What I have an issue with is what I consider an abusive practice of pressing the customers like lemon. In my instance, it was barely past 5:00pm, the vet was on the premises, she looked at the horse probably 5 minutes and it cost me $152. More then 1/2 being the vet call plus off hours extras. Moreover it was never mentioned to me. In fact, when I asked the vet if she wanted a check right there and there, she said no, it was easier for her to bill me. Yeah. No surprise there.

Now, I contrast this with my regular vet who came for 11 days at 11:00pm to a clinic whose vet she abhored to do laser treatments on my dying gelding and charged me a small $400 total and guess who my loyalty lies with --my poor horse had salmonella and she would have to completely disinfect her tools and clothes every night. My regular vet is not cheap, but she treats each customer as an individual and she never takes advantage.

[This message was edited by Carolinela on Dec. 09, 2003 at 07:52 PM.]

[This message was edited by Carolinela on Dec. 09, 2003 at 07:54 PM.]

Ishi

Dec. 9, 2003, 03:40 PM

I agree, well said DVM2003. Nikkibaby, why would you go to a teaching hospital if you didn't want students near your horse, and if they didn't meet your expectaions the fist time, why did you go back? I must be missing something, is there absolutely no other vet hospital you could go to even if it ment driving a long distance?

Carolinela, You said it yourself, it was after 5pm (and I assume 5pm was the end of regular hours?) and so your vet charged you the after hours charge, as was well in her right, it was after hours. She's not your regular vet right? Why should she give you a break on her knowledge and time? You asked her to see the horse after hours right?

I guess I can see you not liking your bill, but don't really see what you can complain about. Horse was seen after hours, you were charged. Maybe in the future (when not using your regular vet) you could ask for up front charges and then deside if the horse can wait til your regular vet can get there. That way you know everything up front and can make an imformed decsion http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Love means attention, which means looking after the things we love. We call this stable management.
- George H. Morris
http://community.webshots.com/user/flycak

Carolinela

Dec. 9, 2003, 03:56 PM

You are correct. The end result though is that vet wont get my business and that of anyone I know.

SLW

Dec. 9, 2003, 07:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dianna:
I took one of my horses to a clinic to have stifle x-rays done. I called ahead and was blunt - I'm coming for x-rays and that is it. I don't want your vet looking at them, giving me an opinion or anything other than taking an xray. When I got there, the vet (young) jerked the shank out of my hands, and proceeded to do flexion tests ... I quickly stopped him and reminded him I wasn't interested in his input or opinion that I was only there for xrays. My husband was mortified; but, I didn't care. Then the vet tried to tell me the horse was worse after flexion ... and I asked him which horse he was looking at.

The horse was a bit upset, so I asked the vet to lightly sedate him. When I saw what he was going to use, I stopped him and said, no, just give him 1/2 of that... he doesn't have a normal reaction to sedatives and that much will lay him out. He didn't listen, and needless to say, it took all of us to keep this horse up on his feet.

We got the x-rays and there was nothing remarkable, so I asked the young vet to block the hocks (but again explained I didn't want an exam - I only wanted them blocked). Now, we have a horse that is still pretty groggy ... and this young vet decides to spin him around to test for EPM ... before I could stop him, my horse was on the ground (literally, sitting on his butt!).

Well, needless to say, my vet showed up right as I was teaching this young kid how to use four letter words in new and creative combinations!! My vet laughed and asked if I didn't make myself clear about not wanting his help or input and if I cleared the horse getting as much sedation as he gave.

Well, along came the bill (while I was still fumming mad) with tons of "extra" charges. I borrowed the vets pen, crossed out that which I did not authorize and then wrote a check for the rest. My parting comments were ... please, sue me, and I'll be happy to see you in Court.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the vet had been allowed to flex your horse, prior to shooting radiographs of the stifle, might he have saved you money since you ended up blocking the hocks and not findng a problem w/ the stifle?

If you didn't want the vets opinion about your horse, why was it being vetted?

Shame on the vet for not trusting your knowledge of your horses sensitivity to sedation.

What is the value for you and your horse of blocking the horses hocks but not allowing an exam? Your goal isn't clear to me. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You wanted the hocks blocked and then you were going to do what with the horse at the clinic??

In my experience blocking a joint without a baseline lameness exam would be unacceptable vetting. There must be something I'm missing with your example because as I read what you posted you hamstrung the vet from the get go by setting unreasonable limits on what he could and could not do.

Fill in the blanks....okay?? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And while we're at it, has anyone sent their veterinarians office a Christmas Card??? That's an inexpensive way (37 cents) to say "remember me guys!!!"

SLW
"The horse stopped with a jerk, and the jerk fell off."

Dianna

Dec. 10, 2003, 09:27 AM

SLW - my vet was coming (he was late arriving). The x-rays were to confirm/rule out anything, more than to find anything. The blocking of the hocks was for no other reason than to simply check off the box.

We had already done the flexion tests and had a really good idea of what was happening, we just wanted to confirm our opinion.

The reason I didn't want this vet's opinion, is that I don't like him. I believe he is incompetent, and I base this on seeing the results of his work since his arrival here in the Valley. Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust the vet at this facility for anything. But, the facility has incredible diagnostic equipment.

Dianna

Dec. 10, 2003, 09:28 AM

I treat my vet very well and his associate and staff as well. I have no problem paying for work performed, especially work needed/requested.

Carolinela

Dec. 10, 2003, 10:39 AM

My vet is into endurance and I have given her tack for x-mas. Or good wine. I treat my vet very well.

SunshineGA

Dec. 10, 2003, 02:56 PM

Dianna-I just can't figure out why your VET didn't call to request use of the x-ray machine. And why you didn't WAIT for him to get there.

Nikki- Students are going to be at a teaching hospital. Hence the "teaching" part of the hopsital. And what did they do that was so disrespectful? Really. And $250 for rads, ultrasound, and nerve blocking isn't that bad.

My advice for you is to not go to a "teaching" hospital if you don't want "disrespectful" students to go near your horse. Vets have to learn somehow, why don't you help them by not shutting them out and treating them like crap? They are human too.

There are other places for you to go to just get x-rays. Or... better yet.. get over it.

I apologize for the long post but reading some of y'alls stories give me a headache. Grabbing the bill and crossing off what you refuse to pay for? Did you just stand around and let the vet do this? You could have said "excuse me I'd be more comfortable if we waited for my vet since he knows the case" THEN proceed with x-rays... instead of letting words fly.

I am getting kinda of frustrated with the lack of respect you people are expressing towards veterinary medicine (not all but few). You guys all say you love your vets but you obviously don't have respect for veterinarians the way you speak of them. Just because you have a working knowledge does not mean you know everything either. And even if you take your horses TPR and CRT etc before the vet gets there, he's probably going to do it again anyway.

"When life gives you lemons, make margaritas!"