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Drvmb1ggl3
May. 7, 2011, 07:23 PM
If the Animal wins the Preakness, he will waltz home in the Belmont. This horse is bred to run all-day-long, take a look at his pedigree (http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=8331153&registry=T&horse_name=Animal%20Kingdom&dam_name=Dalicia%20(GER)&foaling_year=2008&nicking_stats_indicator=Y).

Big question mark is does he get mugged at Pimlico, cause I can't see him losing at Belmont.

vineyridge
May. 7, 2011, 07:36 PM
His is the kind of pedigree that can do great things for North American racing in the shed if breeders will give him a chance and not expect too much too soon. Love that pedigree. No Storm Cat, no Mr. P, and all the German horses.

Tail female goes to a Hungarian mare; Hungarian for at least two generations.

Not your usual NA pedigree, that's for sure.

Laurierace
May. 7, 2011, 07:40 PM
That is why the Preakness has always been my favorite of the three races. Decades before I came to train at Pimlico even. It's the race that tells you if the Derby winner was legit or not. Let's hope he is!

MightyBobbyMagee
May. 7, 2011, 07:44 PM
The one thing that would concern me about AK in a TC attempt would be the short amount of time between the two remaining races. The Derby was only his fifth career start. From his debut race, the timing for his races has been five weeks, thirteen weeks(AOC), three weeks (Spiral S.), and six weeks (KY Derby).

vineyridge
May. 7, 2011, 08:19 PM
You make him sound like he's made of cellophane. :) If a TB can't do one pair of races two weeks apart these days, the breed is in trouble. Over time and history, horses ran and ran. I was just reading that St. Simon had races that were, IIRC, one day and the next--and won both. And the old 4 mile heat races that were so common until the end of the 19th century in the US--best two out of three 4 milers on the same day.

TheHeimer
May. 7, 2011, 08:50 PM
From his limited record, he has proven to be versatile in distance and surface.

I think he's a much more legitimate TC threat than, say, Big Brown was.

usedtobeaweffer
May. 7, 2011, 08:54 PM
oh I hope he does it…. I;m ready for one… so ready… lol

EightBelles134
May. 7, 2011, 09:11 PM
oh gosh I hope he doesn't win the Triple Crown...his owner seemed like an a** using the press conference and his new media attention to bash his previous trainers he employed

usedtobeaweffer
May. 7, 2011, 09:18 PM
I LOVED that the owner talked truth… lol…

AppJumpr08
May. 7, 2011, 09:21 PM
I've had a crush on Leroidesanimaux for awhile now... and I love love LOVE Graham Motion. It would be a dream to see them take the Triple Crown. But I don't want to jinx anything, so I won't say more than that ;)

dressagetraks
May. 7, 2011, 09:22 PM
In the category of connections being an a** , it would take some doing to be worse than Big Brown in that area, too. :winkgrin:

Actually, he would be great for the sport if he won the TC. Isn't he the one owned by a many, many member partnership? That could encourage a lot of people to buy into their own small piece of the action.

Connections and ramifications aside, he seems like a nice horse. I didn't pick him because of the dirt question, but no reason why I'd root against him for the TC. Go for it! :yes:

Acertainsmile
May. 7, 2011, 10:26 PM
Yes, he's owned by Team Valor (remember Captain Bodgit)? I agree, good for the sport and future owners!

Barry Irwin is an outspoken guy, but does try to do the right thing by the horses he manages. If that means switching trainers, then so be it.

Slewdledo
May. 7, 2011, 10:47 PM
I hope not. Wish the owner had 1% as much class as his horse does. This is a horse who hadn't run in 6 weeks, really think he can get 2 more wins in the next 5? On three different tracks? Again, NICE NICE horse, beautiful, I won't knock him. But I hope he isn't the one, and I don't think he will be...

Slewdledo
May. 7, 2011, 10:53 PM
I also should add that Uncle Mo at 75% of his best would have eaten these for lunch. Such a shame.

Mara
May. 7, 2011, 10:54 PM
I do wonder which trainers Irwin had in mind when he made that remark. Pletcher? Elliott Walden? Team Valor has had several. . .

Oh, and I was a big fan of Leroidesanimaux when he was running - he was so freaking gorgeous! I always thought of him as "Leroy", though!:D

And yeah - Acatenango on the bottom? Love it.

Slewdledo
May. 7, 2011, 10:57 PM
Catalano is probably the most "colorful" of those guys...and he trained Animal Kingdom last year.

MadeYaLook
May. 7, 2011, 11:08 PM
Sorry to be a naysayer-but Uncle Mo was at 75% of his best and didn't win the Wood! Besides the GI problem that he is having there is also the chip sugery that he had between his 2-3 year old starts. Throw out the Timely Writer race which was nothing more than a glorified work for this horse and what else did he do this year?--NOTHING!
He had a great 2 year old season and maybe he will get back to the races this summer(though I doubt it).
Sorry but still disgusted with the connections and what they pulled before the Derby.

Mara
May. 7, 2011, 11:43 PM
Sorry to be a naysayer-but Uncle Mo was at 75% of his best and didn't win the Wood! Besides the GI problem that he is having there is also the chip sugery that he had between his 2-3 year old starts. Throw out the Timely Writer race which was nothing more than a glorified work for this horse and what else did he do this year?--NOTHING!
He had a great 2 year old season and maybe he will get back to the races this summer(though I doubt it).
Sorry but still disgusted with the connections and what they pulled before the Derby.

Moreso than that, I'm concerned that Mo may really have bigger problems and the GI issues are but a symptom. I cannot forget Lost In The Fog. :cry:

Hoping that it's not so.

Texarkana
May. 8, 2011, 02:43 AM
oh gosh I hope he doesn't win the Triple Crown...his owner seemed like an a** using the press conference and his new media attention to bash his previous trainers he employed

That's because he is an a**. Good eye. ;)

With that said, it takes a "special" kind of person to run a racing syndicate. Not a job for Mother Theresa. I couldn't and wouldn't want to do it.

kcmel
May. 8, 2011, 07:37 AM
I typically don't root for a triple crown, mostly because I don't admire the connections. But I really like Graham Motion, I like the horse (and picked him, but didn't bet this year :(). Liked the sire as well--a spectacular looking horse. So I will be behind him. As mentioned, a lot less obnoxious owner than BB and many others.

TheHeimer
May. 8, 2011, 09:33 AM
Uncle Mo would have eaten these for lunch? Did you mean to say he would have stopped for lunch and finished mid-pack? 'Cause that's the far more likely scenario at a classic distance.

On the one hand, it's not great publicity for the sport to advertise that trainers lie. On the other hand, aren't people always claiming it's high time we toss out the bad apples and clean up the sport? I don't see how that can happen if powerful owners don't stand up for themselves and speak with both their actions and their money.

Glimmerglass
May. 8, 2011, 10:00 AM
Catalano is probably the most "colorful" of those guys...and he trained Animal Kingdom last year.

Yep. Wayne Catalano, who has been a successful fixture on the Chicago racing scene, is 'unique'.

Interesting from October 2010 with Team Valor's horse updates to the partners: (http://www.teamvalor.com/news/Oct2010/HeadlineAnimalKingdom.pdf)


Daily Racing Form columnist and handicapper Marty McGee, writing in his blog on-line, said “There's talk that the winner of the sixth, Animal Kingdom ($3.40), might turn out to be something for Team Valor and trainer Wayne Catalano. The Leroidesanimaux colt showed far more speed than in his AP bow when easily winning the sixth under Robby Albarado.”

MKW
May. 8, 2011, 10:38 AM
I got a chuckle of appreciation when Barry Irwin said he was tired of lying trainers. I just thought here is a guy who calls a spade a spade! LOL Graham Motion seems like a total class act too. I am just a really casual racing fan and hadn't heard of any of these guys before yesterday's derby. Beautiful horse.

ottb_dressage
May. 8, 2011, 11:09 AM
I have to agree with MKW...while I've been a racing follower for a lot of years, I think it's extremely refreshing to hear an owner call a spade a spade. I think we definitely need to clean up racing, and an owner with the power to let his money speak, has made a choice to support a FANTASTIC trainer (who is more concerned with doing right by his horses than with winning every race at any cost) and send that trainer EVERY horse that the racing syndicate owns.
While Mr. Irwin may be a little rough around the edges, I applaude him for speaking the truth and letting his conscience win out over the need to just win no matter what it does to the horses he owns.
I truly hope that Animal Kingdom might be the first Triple Crown winner in 33 years...it would be a huge boon for american racing...and to have it won by a trainer like Graham Motion, with an owner who obviously supports Motion's philosophy, would be leaps and bounds better than having it won by some millionaire shmuck who doesn't give a rats butt about his horses quality of life, and a trainer who could care less about doping up horses with illegal substances just to win a race.

equinedriver
May. 8, 2011, 11:28 AM
oh gosh I hope he doesn't win the Triple Crown...his owner seemed like an a** using the press conference and his new media attention to bash his previous trainers he employed

My response was exactly the opposite. I loved his honesty. When asked how many trainers had lied to him he said "lots of them".......and I have no doubt it was true. Graham Motion, according to an article I read early in the week, is the only trainer in the top 10 in earnings not to have a drug violation in the last 5 years. Pretty sad commentary in my book......... So glad it was a win for the "good guys" in the game, there seem to be very few these days.

manesntails
May. 8, 2011, 11:30 AM
oh gosh I hope he doesn't win the Triple Crown...his owner seemed like an a** using the press conference and his new media attention to bash his previous trainers he employed


I wasn't impressed at all at the "lieing trainers" comment that was brought up. Not a very classy move to address that issue in that venue. Thankfully, the horse's class isn't affected by the lack of such in his appointed mouthpieces. :cool:

I like him and would like to see a TCW but, that IS a rarity and I'm not banking on it.

Texarkana
May. 8, 2011, 12:11 PM
Really folks, Barry Irwin has a big mouth. The Team Valor connections can be jerky and full of themselves. But they are truly one of the more educated and conscientious of the large partnerships out there.

I hate to see people not backing this horse or Graham Motion's barn because of the owners. There are soooo many less deserving owners who could have won that race...

VirginiaBred
May. 8, 2011, 12:20 PM
I hate to see people not backing this horse or Graham Motion's barn because of the owners.


THIS.

Rubyfree
May. 8, 2011, 12:24 PM
Really folks, Barry Irwin has a big mouth. The Team Valor connections can be jerky and full of themselves. But they are truly one of the more educated and conscientious of the large partnerships out there.

I hate to see people not backing this horse or Graham Motion's barn because of the owners. There are soooo many less deserving owners who could have won that race...

Dittodittoditto.

manesntails
May. 8, 2011, 12:25 PM
Actually, The less people who "back" or bet on the horse, the better. ;) You can't make money betting him when everyone else is betting him. :D

scrtwh
May. 8, 2011, 01:18 PM
Actually, The less people who "back" or bet on the horse, the better. ;) You can't make money betting him when everyone else is betting him. :D

:D

ottb_dressage
May. 8, 2011, 04:55 PM
Well, and it sounds like, despite Irwin not being maybe the most "user friendly" owner of a syndicate...he does care about the horses that Team Valor owns. He is being quoted as not even being certain he wants to send Animal Kingdom to the Preakness, since he is so lightly raced, and he doesn't want to push him too hard. What a refreshing thing to hear from an owner. Most owners that had a horse who won the Derby wouldn't even bat an eye at entering their horse in the Preakness just to have that "chance" to win a Triple Crown.

Glimmerglass
May. 8, 2011, 05:24 PM
Really folks, Barry Irwin has a big mouth. The Team Valor connections can be jerky and full of themselves. But they are truly one of the more educated and conscientious of the large partnerships out there.

I hate to see people not backing this horse or Graham Motion's barn because of the owners. There are soooo many less deserving owners who could have won that race...

Agreed on all accounts. I'm not a Barry fan (or Team Valor) and while he may have tossed Wayne aside for Motion it will likely only be time before he too gets the axe. Robby was dropped for Johnny on a questionable (IMHO) line of logic in regards to not riding on Friday.

Barry Irwin will do whats best for himself and his partners. If you're a partner there I suppose that's exactly what you want at the helm of the ship.

Trainers and owners fall in love and out again over time. A desire to shake things up when a slump occurs is not uncommon. Zito was with Marylou Whitney for a while then many horses went elsewhere. Even Augustin/Strawbridge has moved horses away from Jonathan Sheppard.

It's worth noting that Animal Kingdom yet again broke a long standing rule of thumb: no horses who never started on dirt won a Derby.

ravenclaw
May. 8, 2011, 06:35 PM
How do you pronounce Leroidesanimaux?

I watched one of his races on You Tube and I still don't know. The announcer was saying the last part "animo" but it didn't sound like the first part started with an "L" sound.

Great race by Animal Kingdom. Nehro was my pick, but I'm still very happy for AK and his connections (especially Graham Motion). And like Drvmb1ggl3 said on another thread, I think it's way cool that AK has a Brazilian-bred father and a German-bred mother. :yes:

Flashy Gray VA
May. 8, 2011, 07:07 PM
Think back to high school French class: :D

Le (The)

Roi (King)

Des (Of The, plural)

Animaux (Animals, plural - pronounced like "animo").

We Yanks have a hard time correctly pronouncing the "Roi" part of the name because of the difference in the way we do "Rs."

Am really looking forward to the Preakness, myself, but I don't think the TC dry spell is going to end this year.

Lady Counselor
May. 8, 2011, 07:40 PM
Add me to the ranks of not being impressed with Irwin feeling that he had to spew that he was tired of all of his past "lying trainers"
Not the time, not the place.
He would have done better to simply praise his current trainer for what he did, then to bring up anything with the past ones and sound like sour grapes.
Think about this: How many trainers has he had? What if you had been one of them, you ran a tight ship and a professional barn and parted ways with them simply because that happens....A LOT...in this business, then you tune in to hear him paint you with that brush? That's the kind of remark that stays around for a long time, deserved or not.
Take it a step further, what if the owners had been the ones not being up front with their trainer, then choose to stand up there and run their mouths?
It's not "refreshing honesty" it's pettiness. It's the kind of crap heard on the backside of the third rate racetracks.
No class.

Texarkana
May. 8, 2011, 07:58 PM
Think about this: How many trainers has he had?
What if you had been one of them, you ran a tight ship and a professional barn and parted ways with them simply because that happens....A LOT...in this business, then you tune in to hear him paint you with that brush? That's the kind of remark that stays around for a long time, deserved or not.

They've used just about every trainer in the business... twice. I doubt he offended anyone new yesterday.

I totally agree it's 100% unprofessional. But unfortunately he is no different than a lot of owners. Lord help us if Zayat had won... we dodged a bullet 2 years in a row.

Drvmb1ggl3
May. 8, 2011, 08:00 PM
Add me to the ranks of not being impressed with Irwin feeling that he had to spew that he was tired of all of his past "lying trainers"
Not the time, not the place.
He would have done better to simply praise his current trainer for what he did, then to bring up anything with the past ones and sound like sour grapes..

He was asked a specific question... i.e someone put a microphone in his face and asked him "why did you change trainers?". He gave an honest answer. It wasn't something he blurted out unprompted.

BI is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but he does tell it like it is, and he also puts his money where his mouth is. For example, he has long been critical of US breeding, it being too speed oriented, and being a proponent of the infusion of stamina and soundness from foreign bloodlines. So what does he do, he goes out and breeds a German mare, chock full of stamina to a speedy Brazilian bred miler who was bred from a combo of discarded US bloodlines and classic European lines. What did he end up with? A Derby winner, and who knows, maybe a TC winner. Fair fecking dues to the man I say.

danceronice
May. 8, 2011, 10:35 PM
He was asked a specific question... i.e someone put a microphone in his face and asked him "why did you change trainers?". He gave an honest answer. It wasn't something he blurted out unprompted.

BI is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but he does tell it like it is, and he also puts his money where his mouth is. For example, he has long been critical of US breeding, it being too speed oriented, and being a proponent of the infusion of stamina and soundness from foreign bloodlines. So what does he do, he goes out and breeds a German mare, chock full of stamina to a speedy Brazilian bred miler who was bred from a combo of discarded US bloodlines and classic European lines. What did he end up with? A Derby winner, and who knows, maybe a TC winner. Fair fecking dues to the man I say.

Ditto all this. I won't say I hope he wins the TC, but IF he does, I can think of far worse connections and horses in recent years who've been in the running that I'd rather not have seen do it.

lizathenag
May. 9, 2011, 12:32 AM
lay raw days annie mow

king of the beasts

Calamber
May. 9, 2011, 05:52 AM
I hope not. Wish the owner had 1% as much class as his horse does. This is a horse who hadn't run in 6 weeks, really think he can get 2 more wins in the next 5? On three different tracks? Again, NICE NICE horse, beautiful, I won't knock him. But I hope he isn't the one, and I don't think he will be...

Why? Because he spoke up about liars in the racing industry? Oh horrors, someone broke the company manners protocol and spoke the truth!

I hope he does win on the basis of his bloodlines and what it will do for racing to have something outside of the standard three lines that dominate.

Calamber
May. 9, 2011, 06:01 AM
Add me to the ranks of not being impressed with Irwin feeling that he had to spew that he was tired of all of his past "lying trainers"
Not the time, not the place.
He would have done better to simply praise his current trainer for what he did, then to bring up anything with the past ones and sound like sour grapes.
Think about this: How many trainers has he had? What if you had been one of them, you ran a tight ship and a professional barn and parted ways with them simply because that happens....A LOT...in this business, then you tune in to hear him paint you with that brush? That's the kind of remark that stays around for a long time, deserved or not.
Take it a step further, what if the owners had been the ones not being up front with their trainer, then choose to stand up there and run their mouths?
It's not "refreshing honesty" it's pettiness. It's the kind of crap heard on the backside of the third rate racetracks.
No class.

And suppose he was only speaking of the liars? What is wrong with that? Maybe he is full of himself and boorish, it was still comical and refreshing. Someone asked him why he changed to Graham Motion and that was the first thing that came to his mind. Freedom of speech and all that.

I was sick to death of watching the parade of idiots in hats and the super models and football heroes who were there for the sex appeal. The "National Bolshevik Center" is a piece of trash as a news service, of that I am sure. I know, not the venue and really not "classy" to say what you think. Who in the world really cares what some overly rich guy on TV says about what he views as his "hirelings" anyway? I still think it was funny. If the trainers have nothing to worry about I am sure they will not lose any sleep. If they do, maybe they will look over their shoulders a time or two, or just maybe, they will tell the truth! I know I can dream.:winkgrin:

Calamber
May. 9, 2011, 06:08 AM
He was asked a specific question... i.e someone put a microphone in his face and asked him "why did you change trainers?". He gave an honest answer. It wasn't something he blurted out unprompted.

BI is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but he does tell it like it is, and he also puts his money where his mouth is. For example, he has long been critical of US breeding, it being too speed oriented, and being a proponent of the infusion of stamina and soundness from foreign bloodlines. So what does he do, he goes out and breeds a German mare, chock full of stamina to a speedy Brazilian bred miler who was bred from a combo of discarded US bloodlines and classic European lines. What did he end up with? A Derby winner, and who knows, maybe a TC winner. Fair fecking dues to the man I say.

You are so much more reasonable and thorough in your knowledge. My hats off to you. Thanks for saying what I should have known!

Drvmb1ggl3
May. 9, 2011, 11:44 AM
This horse is bred to run all-day-long, take a look at his pedigree (http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=8331153&registry=T&horse_name=Animal%20Kingdom&dam_name=Dalicia%20(GER)&foaling_year=2008&nicking_stats_indicator=Y).



Btw, his dam is now in Japan. Go figure.
I believe Team Valor does have a 2yo half brother by Mr Greely.

vineyridge
May. 9, 2011, 12:22 PM
SIGH! I hope Animal Kingdom doesn't end up in Korea or Turkey.


Btw, his dam is now in Japan. Go figure.
I believe Team Valor does have a 2yo half brother by Mr Greely.

ravenclaw
May. 9, 2011, 02:58 PM
Btw, his dam is now in Japan. Go figure.
I believe Team Valor does have a 2yo half brother by Mr Greely.


There was an article about this. It said the partnership that owned Animal Kingdom and his dam had to be dissolved because one of the partners had money problems. So the horses were sold but AK was bought back. Wonder if Team Valor (or someone else) will try to get the mare back now.

Mara
May. 9, 2011, 03:15 PM
There was an article about this. It said the partnership that owned Animal Kingdom and his dam had to be dissolved because one of the partners had money problems. So the horses were sold but AK was bought back. Wonder if Team Valor (or someone else) will try to get the mare back now.

If they don't mind that her price has probably quadrupled as of 48 hours ago!

Glimmerglass
May. 9, 2011, 07:13 PM
On the subject of Barry Irwin and his remarks. Evidently he wasn't talking about Wayne Catalano or Pletcher ... so if you're confused you're not alone. Then again the guy has had 40-trainers in 5-years. It seems rather clear that even if Barry came a knocking Kiaran McLaughlin would tell him to pound sand ;) Frankly folks I'll wager $5 that Graham Motion will be 41 within a couple more.

DRF May 9, 2011 "Trainers respond to Irwin's comment about lying" (http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-derby-trainers-respond-irwins-comment-about-lying) (large excerpt)


Phil Mushnick, the longtime TV sports critic in the New York Post, led his Sunday column with the item, in which he wrote, "I may be wrong, but no horse owner ever before accused former trainers of corruption on national TV after winning the Kentucky Derby. But there's a first time for everything."

Some in the industry thought Irwin might have been referencing Pletcher or Catalano, both of whom were training for Team Valor late last fall and had horses moved to Motion. Pletcher had won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf with Pluck, while Catalano was the first trainer of Animal Kingdom, who won his second start before moving to Motion.

On Monday, Irwin said he was not referring to either of those two trainers in his comments.

"I've got the highest respect for Pletcher," Irwin told Daily Racing Form on Monday. "I think he’s the smartest guy in the horse business, and we had nothing but success together. I like Wayne Catalano. Those aren’t the guys I had in mind."

Irwin went on to say that he has had 40 trainers in the last five years.

"Did the majority of them lie to me? Yes," Irwin said Monday. "That’s what they do."

Pletcher, a five-time Eclipse Award-winning trainer, addressed the issue Monday only after receiving a plethora of texts and e-mails on the subject.

"Everyone has been in a situation where they've been very excited after winning a big race or after a big loss and have probably said something that's taken out of context; I know I’m guilty of doing that," Pletcher said. "As far as I'm concerned, my relationship with Barry Irwin was always good. We had what I would describe as a lot of success together, including winning the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf with Pluck. I felt our relationship began and ended on good terms. I can't recall ever having a single issue with him."

In an indirect way, Pletcher may have helped Animal Kingdom win the Derby. When it looked like Uncle Mo was not going to make the race, Pletcher called Motion to let him know that jockey John Velazquez might be available. Irwin picked up Velazquez to replace Robby Albarado, who had been kicked in the face by a horse Wednesday and did not ride Thursday or Friday.

Catalano said he called Irwin on Sunday to congratulate him for winning the Derby but also to clarify that those comments weren’t directed toward him.

"I know 100 percent it wasn't toward me," Catalano said by phone from Chicago. "I never had a cross word with the guy."

Many New York horsemen were disgusted by Irwin’s nationally televised remarks, but few wanted to go on the record with their comments. Kiaran McLaughlin, who did train briefly for Irwin and Team Valor, was offended by the remark.

"I can promise you and anyone else that I never lied to Barry Irwin," McLaughlin said Monday morning at Belmont Park. "And I don’t appreciate that comment for our whole industry, all the trainers that have trained for him – I don’t feel so bad because it’s a large group and obviously we’re not all liars.

“It took away from the day and the sport and it was uncalled for,” McLaughlin said. “I was very happy for Graham Motion and Johnny Velazquez.”

Gestalt
May. 9, 2011, 07:41 PM
As much as I would like to see a TC winner, I'm not excited about this horse.