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threedogpack
May. 1, 2011, 06:58 PM
with parents.

Apparently this is a big issue with some of the members of this board.

If you have a horse for sale, do you tell your customers they must keep their kids in the vehicles or not bring them? How many customers do you think you've lost? I know that if I'm buying a horse, it's going to be around most of the members of my family....so I might show up with husband, kids and myself to look at that horse. If you tell me my kids aren't welcome.....you've just lost a sale. In the market today, can you afford that?

JanM
May. 1, 2011, 07:02 PM
The big issue is the liability of people who bring their kids, and then let the kids run wild through the barn, or let them do dangerous things at your farm. The problem isn't bringing the kids or the dogs or the visitors, but what happens when they show up without telling you. And then there is the factor of liability because someone things it's a pony ride for everyone involved.

I'd rather lose a sale than lose the farm to a lawsuit.

Casey09
May. 1, 2011, 07:59 PM
I've never heard of anyone banning all children from the property, all of the time. Visiting kids can, at times, be tricky. Most parents are very good about watching their kids to make sure that the kids aren't creating a danger to themselves or others or harming property. Their are instances, though, where the situation goes into total and complete chaos because the parents aren't making any effort to supervise. That, in my experience, is when the lawsuit paranoia strikes.

threedogpack
May. 1, 2011, 08:22 PM
I've never heard of anyone banning all children from the property, all of the time. Visiting kids can, at times, be tricky. Most parents are very good about watching their kids to make sure that the kids aren't creating a danger to themselves or others or harming property. Their are instances, though, where the situation goes into total and complete chaos because the parents aren't making any effort to supervise. That, in my experience, is when the lawsuit paranoia strikes.

I had not heard of it either, but my kids are young men & women now so maybe things are different. It was presented twice in this new category that kids had to be kept in YOUR vehicle or not brought at all which is very similar to some off topic threads I've read, so I was just curious. As I mentioned in a different thread, when my kids were small they went with me for the most part and that also meant to farms if we were looking at studs or to buy a horse or look at some other piece of equipment or product for sale. It never occurred to me that I would be asked to leave if I had them with me. Of course, I never just showed up either, the seller always knew I was coming so maybe that makes a difference.

PiaffePlease
May. 1, 2011, 10:36 PM
Honestly, I think its kinda rude to bring the whole family. I mean, if its a local thing, leave the kids at home unless they are planning on trying out the horse. If you are traveling overnight, I can understand bringing the kids, but you need to tell the seller you are bringing the whole family.

When I was horse shopping and traveling overnight to see horses, I brought my two dogs. They stayed in the car. Most people were nice and would offer to let them get out and take a potty break, but I never asked if they could get out. One farm offered to let me put them in a stall.

If you have to bring the kids, make sure they behave, stay near you, or stay in the car. No wandering around petting all the horses, being loud, complaining, etc.

katie+tru
May. 1, 2011, 10:46 PM
The only issue with kids my barn's ever faced was when a small group of them just wandered into the barn one summer day. They were from right down the road. They literally walked right up the driveway and into the barn... didn't ask if the owner was there (she was, thank god) or if they could come in and see the horses. I was walking around and there was just suddenly 3 or 4 strange kids in the barn. Luckily, I think my trainer (the owner) knew atleast one of them, the one that actually lived down the road, and allowed them to stay. They just wanted to look at the horses. I thought it was not only pretty awkward, but very rude of them to just stride in like that. The barn is not you're own neighborhood petting zoo. It's a riding facility that houses some very nice show horses and a place where people come to really work and learn. We are not around for kids' personal entertainment.

-end rant-

Sorry. It's real pet peeve of mine when parents allow their kids to treat the barn like a zoo. Especially when they have one kid there for lessons and rest just wander around gawking at the horses and trying to pet/poke at all of them.

Kids are totally allowed on the property though... for anything. My trainer's never told anyone specifically to not bring their kids. Is that common somewhere or with a certain discipline? I've never heard of it either.

S1969
May. 2, 2011, 08:22 AM
Honestly, I think its kinda rude to bring the whole family. I mean, if its a local thing, leave the kids at home unless they are planning on trying out the horse. If you are traveling overnight, I can understand bringing the kids, but you need to tell the seller you are bringing the whole family.

If you have to bring the kids, make sure they behave, stay near you, or stay in the car. No wandering around petting all the horses, being loud, complaining, etc.

Really, rude? I guess if you showed up with toddler triplets, maybe. But rude to show up with kids? I have a 9 & 13 year old and if I had to bring them (which I probably wouldn't choose to do), I can't imagine the seller thinking that is rude. Of course my kids would probably just stand there and watch without saying a word...but still. Rude would have never occurred to me.

Naturally - the last paragraph must apply (except the stay in the car part). No wandering, petting, etc.

I brought my kids last year when my boarder went to a rescue to try a horse. They were the ones showing my kids the horses and letting them pet them. :)

spacytracy
May. 2, 2011, 09:21 AM
I sometimes bring my DD to the barn but only if there's an 'extra' person to take care of her. I would never do that to some unknown person though.

I would always let someone know ahead of time, too.

If my kids were older and well-behaved, sure. But even the most well-behaved child is a distraction. And if I were looking for a new horse, I'd want zero distrations.

I'd want hubby there to videotape, not be keeping track of my DD.

KateWooten
May. 2, 2011, 09:40 AM
How about people who bring their adorable running-about 2 1/2 year old to a show? And let him run about in and out of the warm-up ring completely unsupervised. And then shout at me for grabbing their kid from under the legs of my pony, at her first show with a young rider. I know, I hurt her precious snowflake's tiny feelings by grabbing him by the arm and whisking him up high and fast out of the way. OTOH, both her kid and mine could have been badly killed. Hers especially.

coloredcowhorse
May. 2, 2011, 10:19 AM
Things tend to be a lot more relaxed out here....I don't mind kids IF the parents have some control of them...if they don't then I put on my "boss mare" look and suggest that the kids could perhaps be better controlled. I will talk with kids directly too and explain why some things are important... not yelling and running around and running up to mares with foals etc. I find that in most cases the kids understand quickly and are well behaved once the need is explained. I also have some seating where I can and will anchor them.

I was unhappy about 20 years ago when I got home from work on Easter Sunday morning about 8a and checked horses (my kids had fed and done morning chores) including checking over a new baby (born about 6a) with her mom in the front little pasture (about 3 acres) and went to bed. My bedroom overlooked my driveway and I had been asleep about an hour when I heard car doors slam and kids voiced. Got up and looked out and found two adult women, two station wagons with about 10 kids unloading. Jumped into some clothes (thank goodness for scrubs) and shoes and ran down the stairs. By this time there are kids IN the pasture with mom and new foal. It wasn't the mare's first foal but the first one for me. The horse had been great with my kids and I was told by the seller that she liked kids and had never been a problem with them with her previous foals but still..... I came pretty well uncorked getting the kids out of the field and then climbed into the faces of the women. Turned out one of them had passed the place on her way to church where she taught Sunday school and they thought it would be great for the kids to see the new baby. I explained that 1250 lbs of protective mother horse with hooves and teeth and four wheel drive was a potential disaster. They honestly had not thought of horses as having any weapons or of being protective toward their babies. Got the mare haltered and brought her over and let them get introduced (she was indeed great with kids) and then got hold of her foal and let them take turns, one at a time, touching her...baby got mom's great attitude right off the bat and was curious and not the least bit upset at being held and petted.

Current property is signed with "at your own risk" type signage. State legislature just passed a limited liability law for this state (one of the last to not have such a law) so as soon as the wording for signs for compliance with the new law is available the signs will be changed to meet those requirements. I'm here almost all the time (usually go to town about one day a week now....fuel costs!) and if I don't want anyone in I just go and close the gates.

pj
May. 2, 2011, 12:00 PM
I absolutely hate it when people bring their kids to the farm.
I've had more to not supervise their children than I've had those who do supervise.
What is wrong with people??

I've corrected the kids myself when their parent doesn't and on three occasions I've told the people to leave when their children wouldn't listen to me and the parent didn't intervene.
One child thought it amusing to try to spook the horses by reaching out a hand as offering a treat and then snatching their hand up in the horses face when it reached for the offered "treat".
Another thought it fun to beat on a coop that a little bantam hen was setting in.
Another wanted to kick the cat everytime she passed by.
Were the parents offended when I told them they needed to go? Yeah but that's tough. Make your kid behave or I expect you'll be asked to leave lots of places before it's all over.

My husband's family has get togethers a coupld of times a year and they "thought" I was going to take a turn having it here.....NOT. They bring about thirty children with them and said the children would LOVE being here with all the animals. I know darn well they thought they'd bring 'em and turn 'em loose.
When asked why I said no I told them I had way too many things that could kick, bite, scratch.

lcw579
May. 2, 2011, 12:32 PM
This thread is making me shake my head. My kids are older now - youngest is 12 - and it would never have occured to me not to bring them. However they were taught from the beginning how to act around animals of all kinds. They would never run, shout, hit or tease any living creature. Luckily they never thought to do it because I would have had to kill them.

pj
May. 2, 2011, 12:46 PM
This thread is making me shake my head. My kids are older now - youngest is 12 - and it would never have occured to me not to bring them. However they were taught from the beginning how to act around animals of all kinds. They would never run, shout, hit or tease any living creature. Luckily they never thought to do it because I would have had to kill them.

My two are fifty years old and thirty four years old. They knew better than to do those things, too.
It's weird to me how some (note I said some) parents today either ignore this type of behavior or actually think it's cute and funny. One of the ones that was asked to leave was beaming (before asked to leave) and proudly announced "she's not afraid of ANYTHING."
:lol: They won't but if they ever came back they'd both better be afraid of me!

mysaygrace
May. 2, 2011, 01:06 PM
I guess I'm a not a nice person but I really dislike people thinking because we have a farm we are a petting zoo or enjoy taking what little spare time to entertain someone else, because Little Susie or Joey would just love to come "see" your horses, goats, dogs, cats, birds, etc. Usually it's not just "see" the animals then it's can they brush this horse or just sit on that one, oh cant they get a pony ride, can they feed the birds, play in the hayshed, etc. No, no & no, I'm not insured to be a petting zoo & I really don't want to lose our farm because someone got hurt. Both my husband & I work full time then as anyone knows who has a farm there's always something that needs done. And yes when we do have spare time we like to enjoy our animals not entertain other people. I sometimes feel guilty about this but I need to do what's in the best interest of our animals & ourselves. My husband's coworkers even suggested having their work picnic at our place, I was like "WHAT?!", really our animals are not for the publics entertainment, sorry to be this way but it is.

dressagetraks
May. 2, 2011, 01:10 PM
I dislike kids in general, but if the parents had a legitimate reason for coming to the property and had been invited (looking at horse or CL item for sale, etc.), I would not say anything about accompanying kids. If the carload of unannounced "want to see the cute horse" folks described above showed up, I'd definitely have told them to leave. The place is not a public park nor a petting zoo. But I do realize that sometimes, folk who are legitimately coming out to the farm might have their kids with them.

HOWEVER, if those kids got obnoxious or out of control, I would promptly ask parents to collect them and leave, and I would not care if that cost me a sale. If my definition of out of control did not match that of the parents, we would still be using my definition as long as we were on my property, and I'd tell them that.

I agree, kids nowadays are worse behaved in public as a general rule than was formerly the case.

I never acted up in public. My brothers tried it a time or two just to test whether Mom would follow through, but the rules were known in advance. There are appropriate times to frisk, run, and play, and inappropriate times. You may behave appropriately for the place you are at, or you may be spanked and then behave appropriately. Appropriate behavior (explained in advance and repeated back by the kid; there was no confusion about expectations) is not optional, but you got to choose whether you wanted to practice it with or without getting spanked. Easy choice, and even my brothers figured it out rapidly. :yes:

leilatigress
May. 2, 2011, 01:31 PM
I'm with most of you. If I advertised the horse as a kid's horse by all means bring the kids. If I don't advertise it as a kid's horse I would like to see older children, since I actually had a mare that liked to chew and stomp on kids. When the station wagon pulls in and all the kids pile out to see an advanced riding horse I would stop them at the car and say better luck next time. I don't like children at all other than my own. DD's friends are VERY rarely invited out to the barn with me and the select few that are get a lesson with my trainer. I don't own any horses and I highly respect my barn. I really really don't want to lose my privileges by pissing off the BO or the trainer for an ill mannered heathen that thinks it's okay to hurt an animal. My barn does birthday parties but that doesn't make it a day care or a petting zoo.

trubandloki
May. 2, 2011, 01:50 PM
I'd rather lose a sale than lose the farm to a lawsuit.

This.

JoZ
May. 2, 2011, 03:52 PM
I've been burned on a couple of occasions -- trying to talk to the parent/adult while children are running up and down aisles, annoying the dogs/cats/horses, opening doors and gates, etc.

My barn is not even as public as a boarding barn -- three of us lease barn and pastures. We are adults, not even young adults (sigh), and do not have everything "child-proofed". I see no reason that we should. I'm not implying that our animals are dangerous, or that there is broken glass or arsenic lying about. But a little someone could reach up to a shelf and pull down something heavy. Or trip over something I've left in the aisle. Or slip on hay on the concrete aisle, or fall in the mud outside. None of which would happen if the child were under the adult's control -- or had the manners to behave without control.

I sold my Appy to a family who brought their SIX. LITTLE. GIRLS to our farm. The oldest was 13. I was dreading it, but they were absolutely wonderful. Polite and QUIET. And ya know what? They were rewarded because the animals LOVED them. When the loud screaming running children come through the barn, the horses are pressed against the back wall and the cats are nowhere to be found -- but I got to see some really sweet interactions with the lovely, quiet young ladies.

atlatl
May. 2, 2011, 05:22 PM
I saw a great sign at a winery this weekend;

Unsupervised children will be given sugar and a puppy

tasia
May. 2, 2011, 06:19 PM
I saw a great sign at a winery this weekend;

Unsupervised children will be given sugar and a puppy

:lol::lol:
Unsupervised children will be sold;)

carolprudm
May. 2, 2011, 07:42 PM
:lol::lol:
Unsupervised children will be sold;)
Unfortunately the market's down at the moment.

First time I went to try Sophie the seller looked at me and said "Where's your daughter?"

Umm the horse is for me

manentail
May. 2, 2011, 07:57 PM
The only issue with kids my barn's ever faced was when a small group of them just wandered into the barn one summer day. They were from right down the road. They literally walked right up the driveway and into the barn... didn't ask if the owner was there (she was, thank god) or if they could come in and see the horses. I was walking around and there was just suddenly 3 or 4 strange kids in the barn. Luckily, I think my trainer (the owner) knew atleast one of them, the one that actually lived down the road, and allowed them to stay. They just wanted to look at the horses. I thought it was not only pretty awkward, but very rude of them to just stride in like that. The barn is not you're own neighborhood petting zoo. It's a riding facility that houses some very nice show horses and a place where people come to really work and learn. We are not around for kids' personal entertainment.



I have had this happen too! Only I wasn't there and they got into all kinds of stuff! It took me a week to find all my brushs, they got into my boarders things, left a pitchfork in the middle of the aisle, and a boarder saw it before I got back :eek::eek: Thankfully she was just confused, not mad.
Needless to say I had a word with the parents, (who are very redneck and think it's ok for their children just to wander). They have not been back since.

threedogpack
May. 2, 2011, 10:01 PM
I cannot .imagine. that I would have allowed my children away from my side at a barn they were guests at. Can't imagine it.

Maybe that is why I didn't understand why some are so vehemently against having children come with buyers. *I* would have left with the kids, after (or during exodus) apologizing to the property owner if my children turned into heathens. And they were not perfect, but if they had a meltdown for some reason, then it would have been inappropriate parenting to stay. Kids are kids and they can't be good all the time, so if they were having a bad time, I would have made arrangements to return at a later date.

And I would never, even now, with adult children just show up at a strangers property to "pet" the ponies or whatever.

rizzodm
May. 2, 2011, 10:12 PM
When I was horse shopping and traveling overnight to see horses, I brought my two dogs. They stayed in the car. Most people were nice and would offer to let them get out and take a potty break, but I never asked if they could get out. One farm offered to let me put them in a stall.


Maybe there could be a stall reserved for visiting children.

katie+tru
May. 2, 2011, 10:49 PM
What I want to know is where/how in society do children think that it's okay to walk onto farm property or into a barn but it's not okay to go jumping in your neighbor's pool or climbing on the playset at the family down the road? It's the same thing! You're going onto someone else's property without permission and doing things that could potentially end in an injury, be in swimming, playing on swings, or petting horses. I'd bet you that any of these kids that have showed up at your farms/barns would never have thought of hoping a neighbor's fence to play in their yard or play with their dog. Why are barns perceived as being public, open-to-all-for-anything places?

WildBlue
May. 2, 2011, 10:57 PM
Timely topic. Apparently my 20-month old nephew was bitten today by one of my horses. My dad was there and, for the umpteenth time, told my sister to keep the child AWAY FROM THE HORSES.

I've told her repeatedly that it's fine to let her kid run around and play (since they live in town and don't even have a yard), but he has to be properly supervised and kept away from dangerous things like horses and the pond. It just goes in one ear and out the other... lalalalalala. Last week, I got there in time to see him run up behind one of the horses snoozing in the pasture and fall/grab onto a back leg. Mom was standing back at the fence, beaming with pride at his "connection to animals". Bless the mare for flinching but not launching the child. His mother just looked sad when I told her how badly he could have been hurt--after all, he loves animals so they should love him back. And *I* am a big meaning for wanting to spoil their fun.

It's pretty appalling with family, who I'm fairly sure aren't going to sue my pants off. I would absolutely be concerned if more chilidren, of uncertain training and temperament, were to show up. As others have pointed out, why should I risk losing my dream farm because someone wants to treat it like a petting zoo?

threedogpack
May. 3, 2011, 12:59 AM
My dad was there and, for the umpteenth time, told my sister to keep the child AWAY FROM THE HORSES.

that is appalling.
. Last week, I got there in time to see him run up behind one of the horses snoozing in the pasture and fall/grab onto a back leg. Mom was standing back at the fence, beaming with pride at his "connection to animals".[/quote]

*blink* mouth falls open. I must be made different or something. The thought that a toddler could/should do something like that and the animal tolerate it would never have occurred to me. Ever.

So now I see why people don't want kids around. I would not either.

JoZ
May. 3, 2011, 02:03 AM
I took a yearling to a "Horse Faire" sort of thing as an ambassador for PMU foals -- turned around to see a toddler with her arms (and legs I think) around my filly's hind leg. No parents anywhere in sight. The filly didn't move a muscle. But if she had? It's SCARY and UNRELIABLE to depend on luck... :no:

JanM
May. 3, 2011, 07:48 AM
WildBlue-if the child went to the doctor (which they certainly should) then the doctor will probably have to report the bite. And their insurance company will not be paying for the medical care, and I hope you have good insurance because your insurance will be paying for everything. Don't ever think that because your sister is a fool, and related that she won't sue you when something major happens to the child because of her carelessness. I don't think your insurance company will be too happy about this situation either, and your family might have to explain why she has access to the farm with her kids after she has proven to be an total idiot where the dangers to her child are concerned.

Please read the "Insurance Recovery Firms" thread further down the page, and you will see what could happen. Her insurance company will sue your insurance company, and you may get thrown to the wolves financially. And your insurance could be cancelled also. And don't bet your sister won't sue either.

Katie-I have known people to come home and find the neighbors and their kids in the homeowners yard using swingsets, and swimming in pools. And the pool required them climbing over the fence around the pool.

Some friends of a friend moved to a beachside community, and their house came with a pool. They had just moved in and were still unpacking, and had not met any of the neighbors. The doorbell rings and it's two little girls in tiny swimsuits and carrying towels asking to use the pool. The lady took the kids home (thinking the parents didn't know) and was appalled to find out the parents had sent the girls over. The lady pointed out that the parents had no clue who their new neighbors were, and how dangerous that could have been. The parents were totally unworried about the horrible possibilities and the danger to their children, and were totally pissed that the girls (and the parents) would never be using the pool under any circumstances. The homeowners are very nice law-abiding people, but for all the neighbors knew they could have been criminals or sex offenders or anything dangerous. The next thing the homeowners did was reinforce the fence locks, and they have discussed extra coverage with their insurance agent. They have discussed removing the pool if it develops major problems, just because of the liability and the stupidity of the neighbors.

mysaygrace
May. 3, 2011, 08:18 AM
it really is unfortunate that we can't just say come one come all & enjoy the farm, but there's just too many risks & not worth the outcome if something did happen. I've even had coworkers ask to rent our horses?! WHAT? Then they proceed to say "my daughter went on a trail ride once, she knows how to ride!" Then another man kept hounding me about his 9 yo granddaughter could come exercise our horses, I would just need to show them how to put the saddle on??????? I try to be polite & point them to a lesson barn or place that offers trail rides, even suggest volunteering at a horse rescue maybe & tell them our horses are not kid safe & that I'm sorry. Usually they get angry & never talk to me again. I had a woman at Lowes stop me the other week when she saw our farm name on my coat & ask to come ride, because she thinks horses are so pretty. I really think some people are either clueless or have no boundaries. I would NEVER think to ask someone "Hey, I really like your motorcycle, how about I take it out for a spin?" SIGH, one of the non perks of living on a farm I guess.

trubandloki
May. 3, 2011, 09:21 AM
It's pretty appalling with family, who I'm fairly sure aren't going to sue my pants off.
To add to what JanM said, your sister's insurance will be the one suing, not her.
I think it is time to run a line of hot wire low on the outside of all your fences.

AppJumpr08
May. 3, 2011, 10:40 AM
. Last week, I got there in time to see him run up behind one of the horses snoozing in the pasture and fall/grab onto a back leg. Mom was standing back at the fence, beaming with pride at his "connection to animals"

I had a visitor here last summer who did much the same thing - their son (who was old enough to know better - 5 years old, I think) zipped through the polyrope, right into the pasture WITH 20 HORSES, who were all up for a drink at the auto waterer. Said child than thought it would be FUN to play "I'm not going to come when you ask me to" with his parents. I was crapping bricks. Giant ones. Somehow he was retrieved before he got kicked in the head (my horses are good, but they aren't THAT good!).

Needless to say, they aren't welcome to come back and visit until their child learns how to listen and respond.


I don't want to ban all children from my farm - I think all kids should have an opportunity to spend time getting dirty and playing with farm critters - but there are lines that must not be crossed, for everyone's safety (and really this applies to people of all ages).

Hinderella
May. 3, 2011, 11:54 AM
I'm a boarder, not the owner of the property, but on many occasions I've had to stop "visitors" from bringing their children onto the property to visit the horses. If I had a horse for sale, I'd certainly want to tell any prosepctive buyers that if they must bring their child(ren) with them, they must also bring an adult to supervise them, and would lay out some ground rules.
We live in a world where most people live lives that are far removed from the natural world, so they have no idea how to behave around animals. That being said, however, they should know how to display basic good manners as a guest, and many children (and some adults) do not! It's really quite sad that there are so many parents who are unwilling to BE PARENTS and require good behavior of their children. Well behaved children are a pleasure, and I love to share with them my love of horses.

CatOnLap
May. 3, 2011, 12:16 PM
Dogs and kids are the same, as visitors. There are nice ones you would never mind, they stay out of the way, do as they are told and don't yap a lot.

Then there are the ones who are underfoot, running wild, yelling and getting into things they ought not.

Unfortunately its hard to sort them out until they are already out of the car and its too late.



I have a new neighbour with two young boys who like to point their cap guns at my horses and fire. They also have a swimming pool that they noisily enjoy every weekend. What makes them come over and ask if their rotten kids can ride my horses as their opening foray into neighborliness? I would never dream of asking to go swimming in their pool!

(so now I am the scarey lady next door...)

Bluey
May. 3, 2011, 12:52 PM
Had a very nice, gentle colt for sale with five rides on him.
This lady called, said she was experienced with horses and was interested in the colt.
She would come Saturday at 10 to look at him.

Saturday comes, it is 11 and no one here.
Since we are six miles from the highway, I happen to think to go check if they got lost and I find them out in the pasture, by the edge of a caprock, at the time rattlers start to come out of their dens to sun themselves there, walking around in sandals, husband, wife and two little kids, no more than five.:eek:

They say they thought it was so pretty, they stopped to walk around and forgot what time it was.:confused:
I herd them back to the road and ask more, both parents way too overweight to be riding any colts.
Now they tell me they wanted the colt for the kids to grow up with.:rolleyes:

I never did take them down to headquarters to look at the horses, but bade them goodbye and closed and locked the gate behind them.

I think they just really wanted to go for a weekend drive in the country.:p

The world is not what it used to be any more, we are not set up here to let the public in.
Now, if a horse needs selling, it goes to someone that is set up for that.

manentail
May. 3, 2011, 09:15 PM
Had a very nice, gentle colt for sale with five rides on him.
This lady called, said she was experienced with horses and was interested in the colt.
She would come Saturday at 10 to look at him.

Saturday comes, it is 11 and no one here.
Since we are six miles from the highway, I happen to think to go check if they got lost and I find them out in the pasture, by the edge of a caprock, at the time rattlers start to come out of their dens to sun themselves there, walking around in sandals, husband, wife and two little kids, no more than five.:eek:

They say they thought it was so pretty, they stopped to walk around and forgot what time it was.:confused:
I herd them back to the road and ask more, both parents way too overweight to be riding any colts.
Now they tell me they wanted the colt for the kids to grow up with.:rolleyes:

I never did take them down to headquarters to look at the horses, but bade them goodbye and closed and locked the gate behind them.

I think they just really wanted to go for a weekend drive in the country.:p

The world is not what it used to be any more, we are not set up here to let the public in.
Now, if a horse needs selling, it goes to someone that is set up for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4HRkAwN_oA

asb_own_me
May. 3, 2011, 09:37 PM
I was unhappy about 20 years ago when I got home from work on Easter Sunday morning about 8a and checked horses (my kids had fed and done morning chores) including checking over a new baby (born about 6a) with her mom in the front little pasture (about 3 acres) and went to bed. My bedroom overlooked my driveway and I had been asleep about an hour when I heard car doors slam and kids voiced. Got up and looked out and found two adult women, two station wagons with about 10 kids unloading. Jumped into some clothes (thank goodness for scrubs) and shoes and ran down the stairs. By this time there are kids IN the pasture with mom and new foal. It wasn't the mare's first foal but the first one for me. The horse had been great with my kids and I was told by the seller that she liked kids and had never been a problem with them with her previous foals but still..... I came pretty well uncorked getting the kids out of the field and then climbed into the faces of the women. Turned out one of them had passed the place on her way to church where she taught Sunday school and they thought it would be great for the kids to see the new baby. I explained that 1250 lbs of protective mother horse with hooves and teeth and four wheel drive was a potential disaster. They honestly had not thought of horses as having any weapons or of being protective toward their babies. Got the mare haltered and brought her over and let them get introduced (she was indeed great with kids) and then got hold of her foal and let them take turns, one at a time, touching her...baby got mom's great attitude right off the bat and was curious and not the least bit upset at being held and petted.

Are you kidding me? How about they were all trespassing, they needed to leave immediately, and they could hope to God that they wouldn't be prosecuted?

coloredcowhorse
May. 3, 2011, 09:49 PM
Are you kidding me? How about they were all trespassing, they needed to leave immediately, and they could hope to God that they wouldn't be prosecuted?

Yeah....all of that BUT very small community (about 750 people total in the valley) and making enemies wasn't the best thing to do.....this way I got the kids under control, got some safety instructions in, got promises from adults that it wouldn't happen again, offered to have them come another time IF they called ahead a week (thanks to my work schedule) and maybe introduced a couple adults and some kids to how great horses can be....maybe some future riders/owners/breeders/trainers in that bunch got their start by NOT being treated like criminals.

Casey09
May. 3, 2011, 10:27 PM
The same problem does exist in the suburbs. Some people do let their children play on neighbors' swingsets without permission, and swimming pools and dogs as well.
Truly, I think it is like anything. A few bad apples sometimes ruin something for everyone else. Unfortunately some people take children to other people's homes and turn them loose to do pretty much whatever they want. I have seen a visiting child pound on someone else's piano (without the parent distracting or moving him) pick up (and break several) breakable glass figurines. His mother laughed. Yes, the children were too young to know better but if a parent takes a young child to someone else's home, the parent should be the one doing the re-direction and correction if necessary. I've known a lot of parents who were really nice and always keep a close eye on their children. Others literally turn them loose, and laugh if they break something or kick the dog or whatever.

philosoraptor
May. 3, 2011, 11:36 PM
For liability reasons, people who don't need to be there to examine the horse probably should not come. They're welcome to sit in the car, if they wish. The visitor is welcome to reschedule if he/she wishes.

Is it rude of me to ask that people in the car not here to meet the horse stay in the car? Maybe. But it's also rude to agree to meet someone and forget to mention you're bringing 5 other people along -- who aren't so interested in this horse and who wander off in all directions. Clearly if the kids are coming to see a potential family pony, that's different. But I'd wonder about the adult: why would you turn the kids loose on someone else's farm, not knowing what hazards might exist there?

Will I lose out on a the remote possibility that this one person will be so angry they'll refuse to do business with me? I dunno. But what I do know is the kick of a horse can break a child's leg, put him in intensive care, or even possibly kill him. I don't know your kids and their skill level around horses. And i can't both show this horse to you well AND be supervising your kids (while your attention, of course, is on the horse). I'd feel awful if the child got hurt in any way.

Same goes for bringing the family dog along when traveling. Please don't if you can help it. If you absolutely must have him, let's get him comfortable in a safe area where he can't loose.

wendy
May. 4, 2011, 02:42 PM
Maybe that is why I didn't understand why some are so vehemently against having children come with buyers.
well why on earth would you bring them? I mean really, you can afford a horse but you can't afford a babysitter?
How are you going to supervise your children while you try out the horse? you can't. I've seen enough people who attempt, for reasons that elude me, to do things like shop with children dragged along and they can't supervise their children there. Also had many a horrible experience of boarders bringing their kids to the barn, and just ignoring the kids while they worked their horse. So how are you going to supervise your children while you are riding a strange horse? and you may fondly believe YOUR children are oh so well behaved but most likely the general public has a different opinion.

would you bring your kids to the car dealership while car shopping? I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen anyone dragging kids around at a car dealership, but then I don't spend all that much time at car dealerships.

Hampton Bay
May. 4, 2011, 05:53 PM
I've been a bit vocal at times about kids on my property, but in a situation where someone was coming to try a family horse, and they brought an older teen or adult to supervise the kids, then I would welcome them. The problem comes in when you live next door to druggies who never watch their kids, or people who cannot bring themselves to make kiddo behave. I won't open myself up to a lawsuit just because someone won't find childcare or make their kids behave.

cssutton
May. 4, 2011, 07:06 PM
well why on earth would you bring them? I mean really, you can afford a horse but you can't afford a babysitter?
How are you going to supervise your children while you try out the horse? you can't. I've seen enough people who attempt, for reasons that elude me, to do things like shop with children dragged along and they can't supervise their children there. Also had many a horrible experience of boarders bringing their kids to the barn, and just ignoring the kids while they worked their horse. So how are you going to supervise your children while you are riding a strange horse? and you may fondly believe YOUR children are oh so well behaved but most likely the general public has a different opinion.

would you bring your kids to the car dealership while car shopping? I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen anyone dragging kids around at a car dealership, but then I don't spend all that much time at car dealerships.



I can't believe what I see in this thread.

The attitude expressed here is best described as poisoning your own well.

First, everyone should consider that without the young people coming into a sport, there will eventually be no sport. It will slowly fade away.

Those who have vision know this and try hard to introduce the young people into their sport, profession or whatever.

Even if these children never own or ride a horse, someday they will be voting for county and state representatives. It is in our interest that they have some understanding and some good feelings for farm life. We need all the friends we can get.

Worse, they may even sit on the county commission or the zoning committees that decide issues of vital importance to land owners.

At the very least, they will someday be the drivers that do or do not zoom past you when you are riding on the shoulder of a country road or trying to catch a loose horse.

As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.

None of the above means that you let them run a muck. Greet them at the door with a firm explanation of the rules and see that the rules are followed.

I repeat; an "attitude" towards children is poisoning your own well.

CSSJR

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with IXQUICK at www.ixquick.com.


If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Bluey
May. 4, 2011, 07:37 PM
I can't believe what I see in this thread.

The attitude expressed here is best described as poisoning your own well.

First, everyone should consider that without the young people coming into a sport, there will eventually be no sport. It will slowly fade away.

Those who have vision know this and try hard to introduce the young people into their sport, profession or whatever.

Even if these children never own or ride a horse, someday they will be voting for county and state representatives. It is in our interest that they have some understanding and some good feelings for farm life. We need all the friends we can get.

Worse, they may even sit on the county commission or the zoning committees that decide issues of vital importance to land owners.

At the very least, they will someday be the drivers that do or do not zoom past you when you are riding on the shoulder of a country road or trying to catch a loose horse.

As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.

None of the above means that you let them run a muck. Greet them at the door with a firm explanation of the rules and see that the rules are followed.

I repeat; an "attitude" towards children is poisoning your own well.

CSSJR

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with IXQUICK at www.ixquick.com.


If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Are you serious?

Do you go everyplace, wherever you want, onto private property, with your kids tagging along and let them run lose and wild?
I doubt it and I also doubt you put up with others doing so where you are in charge.

We are not talking about banning kids and asking parents keep them in crates when they go somewhere there may be other people or activities.;)
We are talking here of using common sense and how to handle the many people that don't have any and we need to provide for that, best with closed and locked gates or many rules.:yes:

Somehow, I doubt you have been running into the public at large much.:no:

cssutton
May. 4, 2011, 08:14 PM
"Somehow, I doubt you have been running into the public at large much"

I suspect that I run into them more often than one who runs them off their property or who refuses entry to their property.

And people in the horse business wonder why the public views us as snooty snobs.

Wonder why.

Bluey
May. 4, 2011, 08:37 PM
"Somehow, I doubt you have been running into the public at large much"

I suspect that I run into them more often than one who runs them off their property or who refuses entry to their property.

And people in the horse business wonder why the public views us as snooty snobs.

Wonder why.

There are public places, there are private places.
I know, many people think the whole world should be public places, they sure don't respect the private ones.
I wonder how they feel when it is their own being trampled?:p

CatOnLap
May. 4, 2011, 08:42 PM
Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.
You are joking right?
HAHAHAHAHA

I can manage a six year old, 1000 lb horse very well, as long as the horse's owner understands that I may use a loud voice, a rope, a halter around the face and maybe even a crop in my management to keep us both safe. Most parents would not appreciate anyone managing their 6 year old 60 lb child in such a manner!

And that's the problem. When other people's kids come, if they are NOT well managed by their own family, you, as an outsider, do not have their permission NOR ANY RIGHT to interfere or otherwise "manage" their children.

JollyBadger
May. 4, 2011, 08:57 PM
Are you serious?

Do you go everyplace, wherever you want, onto private property, with your kids tagging along and let them run lose and wild?
I doubt it and I also doubt you put up with others doing so where you are in charge.

We are not talking about banning kids and asking parents keep them in crates when they go somewhere there may be other people or activities.;)
We are talking here of using common sense and how to handle the many people that don't have any and we need to provide for that, best with closed and locked gates or many rules.:yes:

Somehow, I doubt you have been running into the public at large much.:no:

:yes::yes:

If a farm owner or horse owner/seller wants to host an "open house" so that people can bring their kids to the farm and possibly create some interest in the "future riders of America," that's up to them. Go right ahead.

And if it's a case of a family wanting to buy a horse that will pack their kids around. . .it might be a good idea to see how the horse behaves in response to the children as well as how the children will respond to the horse. I've seen more than a few kids who've begged their parents to buy them a horse, but when they actually get up next to the animal they want nothing to do with it.

Also keep in mind that not all farms are set up to be "family friendly." The person there to sell the horse may or may not have any control over the rest of the barn, who else is using the arena at the time, etc.

So even if the seller, buyer, and horse-for-sale are not particularly bothered about the fact that the buyer's children are doing anything BUT sitting patiently throughout the sale process, it may still be extremely distruptive to other riders, horses, boarders, trainers, barn staff, etc. Not to mention potentially dangerous.

Forget the whole "it takes a village" nonsense. If you bring your kids to any kind of a boarding stable, sale barn or training facility, it's your responsibility as a parent to see to it that they are well-behaved and/or well-supervised by a responsible adult.

The entire time.

Unless, of course, the seller advertises that they will provide "free cookies, milk and on-site childcare" to all potential horse buyers who want to bring their kids along.

I don't think that's very common.:winkgrin:

threedogpack
May. 4, 2011, 11:14 PM
well why on earth would you bring them? I mean really, you can afford a horse but you can't afford a babysitter?
How are you going to supervise your children while you try out the horse? you can't. I've seen enough people who attempt, for reasons that elude me, to do things like shop with children dragged along and they can't supervise their children there.

umm, yes I did take my small children shopping with me, they actually went out to eat with us, they were expected (and did) sit still, stay with me in a store, sit quietly in a car seat, just behave well.


Also had many a horrible experience of boarders bringing their kids to the barn, and just ignoring the kids while they worked their horse. So how are you going to supervise your children while you are riding a strange horse?

stand them against a wall or sit them in a chair and tell them to stay there? I'm not going to ride the horse for hours, a couple of turns around the arena should tell me what I need to know. And I'd probably have hubby with me anyway.


and you may fondly believe YOUR children are oh so well behaved but most likely the general public has a different opinion.

if you remember correctly, they are now 23/25 and 27. So I'm pretty sure they are well behaved now. In fact, they are able to even live on their own!


would you bring your kids to the car dealership while car shopping? I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen anyone dragging kids around at a car dealership, but then I don't spend all that much time at car dealerships.

did and would if I had g'kids. I don't see why it has to be the end of the world. There ARE kids who can listen and do what's asked of them, even if you haven't encountered them.

threedogpack
May. 4, 2011, 11:34 PM
:yes::yes:

.

And if it's a case of a family wanting to buy a horse that will pack their kids around. . .it might be a good idea to see how the horse behaves in response to the children as well as how the children will respond to the horse.

exactly. If I had small children, they will be with me in my own barn. So I need to know if the horse is going to be ok with that.



the buyer's children are doing anything BUT sitting patiently throughout the sale process, it may still be extremely distruptive to other riders, horses, boarders, trainers, barn staff, etc. Not to mention potentially dangerous.

I agree. Kids don't need to go .everywhere. But honestly.....I just never had a problem with my kids being so comfortable in a strange area they would run around, they wanted to be near ME. They went to my own barn with me, and they knew to stay in the small area (actually a stall) I had set up for them. When they went to a store, they stayed with me by the cart, or if they wanted to see something, they asked and we all went over.


Forget the whole "it takes a village" nonsense. If you bring your kids to any kind of a boarding stable, sale barn or training facility, it's your responsibility as a parent to see to it that they are well-behaved and/or well-supervised by a responsible adult.


The entire time.

yes it is. But believe it or not, I was able to tell my kids to stay in the doorway, or in a chair and they actually did that.

Prime Time Rider
May. 5, 2011, 12:15 AM
Does this person live in today's world?
"As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference."

I own a small private barn and have a couple of boarders. I require all of my boarders to sigh a liability release. A couple of years ago one of my boarders decided to share board her horse with another adult rider (no problem). The adult rider had a daughter (age 10 or 11) who also rode a little bit. I required Mom to sign a laibility release for her daughter, and also told her that it was my policy that all children under age 18 were required to wear a helmet when riding.

Imagine my suprise and horror when one Sunday afternoon I return home to the farm and find the adult share boarder has invited 4 or 5 of her daughter's friends to my farm to ride the horse that she is half leasing, WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE AND WITHOUT SIGNED RELEASE OF LIABILITY FORMS FOR ALL THE KIDS. ABOUT HALF OF THEM WERE WITHOUT HELMETS. THE OWNER OF THE HORSE WAS ALSO UNAWARE AND HAD NOT GIVEN HER PERMISISON FOR HER DAUGHTER'S FRIENDS TO RIDE THEIR HORSE.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, however, I soon asked the share boarder to leave. Had one of those kids been hurt, I could have been sued, even though she didn't have my consent to bring 5 or 6 kids onto my property and allow them to ride.

Bottom line, my property, my rules.

Slewdledo
May. 5, 2011, 01:21 AM
Last spring break or summer, I was watering when I saw 3 little girls in our field of 10-15 mares & foals. I think they were wearing sandals. You can't even GET to that field from anywhere except our long winding driveway past all the houses and buildings or a long hike through the woods. I don't even know how they knew there were horses there. And they had treats. :eek:

I told them they needed to ask permission FIRST and sent them on their way. Told my boss (the BO) about it and she asked, "Did you scream at them?" No, but I got their parents' phone number. She called the parents straight away.

And yes, I was the kid (10-12ish) who rode my bike several miles up the road just to pet the horses whose field bordered the street

We also had a lady come look at a horse last summer and bring two HORRIBLE children. OMG. They were everywhere, in sandals, pajamas, hair and teeth not brushed. And they're watching our colt be a snot (thank goodness he was bad for once, they decided he was too much horse) and hollering "CAN I HAVE A TURN? WHY NOT?" I was soooo offended.

Shine
May. 5, 2011, 04:59 AM
I can't believe what I see in this thread.

The attitude expressed here is best described as poisoning your own well.

First, everyone should consider that without the young people coming into a sport, there will eventually be no sport. It will slowly fade away.

Those who have vision know this and try hard to introduce the young people into their sport, profession or whatever.

Even if these children never own or ride a horse, someday they will be voting for county and state representatives. It is in our interest that they have some understanding and some good feelings for farm life. We need all the friends we can get.

Worse, they may even sit on the county commission or the zoning committees that decide issues of vital importance to land owners.

At the very least, they will someday be the drivers that do or do not zoom past you when you are riding on the shoulder of a country road or trying to catch a loose horse.

As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.

None of the above means that you let them run a muck. Greet them at the door with a firm explanation of the rules and see that the rules are followed.

I repeat; an "attitude" towards children is poisoning your own well.

CSSJR

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with IXQUICK at www.ixquick.com.


If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Well...I'm not a baby sitter, nor do I want to be. And if a parent can't manage their own 6 year old, why should I be expected to?:confused:

My horses are well behaved, however, they are large animals and a 40-60 pound child is not an even match for a 1200 pound horse. So why bring them without having ground rules set in place before even leaving the house?

mvp
May. 5, 2011, 07:16 AM
I can't believe what I see in this thread.

The attitude expressed here is best described as poisoning your own well.

First, everyone should consider that without the young people coming into a sport, there will eventually be no sport. It will slowly fade away.

Those who have vision know this and try hard to introduce the young people into their sport, profession or whatever.

Even if these children never own or ride a horse, someday they will be voting for county and state representatives. It is in our interest that they have some understanding and some good feelings for farm life. We need all the friends we can get.

Worse, they may even sit on the county commission or the zoning committees that decide issues of vital importance to land owners.

At the very least, they will someday be the drivers that do or do not zoom past you when you are riding on the shoulder of a country road or trying to catch a loose horse.

As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.

None of the above means that you let them run a muck. Greet them at the door with a firm explanation of the rules and see that the rules are followed.

I repeat; an "attitude" towards children is poisoning your own well.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

I hadn't quite appreciated the "poisoning the well" idea until CSSJR pointed out that these snubbed little ones grow up to snub the horse folk right back later. Their parents casting ballots and sitting on local boards can do that now.





We are not talking about banning kids and asking parents keep them in crates when they go somewhere there may be other people or activities.;)
We are talking here of using common sense and how to handle the many people that don't have any and we need to provide for that, best with closed and locked gates or many rules.:yes:

Somehow, I doubt you have been running into the public at large much.:no:

But some people *are* talking about crating kids in so many words. Really, you make the basic mistake of bringing kiddo with you to try a horse and then you think the kid is going to sit in the car for an hour and a half?


For liability reasons, people who don't need to be there to examine the horse probably should not come. They're welcome to sit in the car, if they wish. The visitor is welcome to reschedule if he/she wishes.

And when you put it "My property, my rules" it just comes across badly. I don't think people would be quite so protective if our society weren't so litigious. So it may be your fiefdom that gives you the rhetorical basis for being in charge. But it's the insurance/legal stuff that actually constrains you.

Why not let parents in on that? You'd love to share the experience on a farm that someone kindly gave you. But you aren't willing to have anyone get hurt and then your wallet hurt just to do that. Putting it that way seems a little less mean-spirited and exciusionary.

Sometimes I think "No, categorically don't bring the kids" is the lazy way out. It means you never have to teach non-horsing parents or kids anything about being safe in a new situation. Without that opportunity, they'll never get better.

I also don't see the problem with laying the ground rules for the parents, explaining why you have them, and then firmly enforcing them with the kid or parent directly if necessary. If you explained *why* you had this or that rule, it makes a whole lot more sense to someone when you come down like a ton of bricks on them. Everyone can understand that someone (here, you) needs to make sure the kiddies stay safe, no matter what. All we say to each other-- "60- pounder vs. 1,200-pounder is an uneven match"-- is perfectly comprehensible to a clueless parent, too. "My bank account vs. your insurance company is also an uneven contest" is also clear. Just slow down and take a minute to explain! Everyone will have a better day.

On Par
May. 5, 2011, 09:13 AM
Gee Whiz! No wonder people think the equestrian sport is dying.

Shine
May. 5, 2011, 10:32 AM
Gee Whiz! No wonder people think the equestrian sport is dying.

Huh? This is about respect even if you're selling, buying or just visiting.

Trixie
May. 5, 2011, 10:50 AM
Why not let parents in on that? You'd love to share the experience on a farm that someone kindly gave you. But you aren't willing to have anyone get hurt and then your wallet hurt just to do that. Putting it that way seems a little less mean-spirited and exciusionary.

Sometimes I think "No, categorically don't bring the kids" is the lazy way out. It means you never have to teach non-horsing parents or kids anything about being safe in a new situation. Without that opportunity, they'll never get better.

Sorry, but someone showing a horse for sale is absolutely under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to educate the next generation.

That is a choice.

Trixie
May. 5, 2011, 10:52 AM
If you have a horse for sale, do you tell your customers they must keep their kids in the vehicles or not bring them? How many customers do you think you've lost? I know that if I'm buying a horse, it's going to be around most of the members of my family....so I might show up with husband, kids and myself to look at that horse. If you tell me my kids aren't welcome.....you've just lost a sale. In the market today, can you afford that?


To this, I would say "I don't really care." If you can't respect the basic rules of my property and farm, I certainly wouldn't trust you to take care of one of our animals.

threedogpack
May. 5, 2011, 11:02 AM
As I read through these replies, I think back to last December when I attended the NRHA futurity. There were .families. there showing their futurity horses. There were kids ranging from babies to youth and know what? They weren't running rampant, they weren't causing destruction and trouble.

This was a public event and I'm sure that point will be brought up, but I also think that many of the people who seem to think that all kids are wild and out of control, have some issues.

I think too, that this is going to be the last post for me on this thread.

Have a good day everyone.

mvp
May. 5, 2011, 11:09 AM
Sorry, but someone showing a horse for sale is absolutely under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER to educate the next generation.

That is a choice.

I know you aren't obligated to do any education of the next generation. But since the OP was talking about the point of sale that approach seems especially short sighted to me. Who will buy horses in the future if we don't welcome noobs into the sport?

In my travels I have found people hungry for basic horse knowledge. It has always been a pleasure to give them some. IME, both sides can enjoy it. In my mind, I have a long "thank you list" that includes all of the people who taught me this and that detail of horsemanship. I'd be honored if I got onto someone else's thank you list.

On the other hand, it may be deeply frustrating to deal with the person who has come just far enough to buy their first horse. They have some knowledge, some ideas and are probably in the process of *convincing themselves* that they can do well for themselves and their new animal. That's probably why they seem so mistakenly opinionated.

Trixie
May. 5, 2011, 11:23 AM
I know you aren't obligated to do any education of the next generation. But since the OP was talking about the point of sale that approach seems especially short sighted to me. Who will buy horses in the future if we don't welcome noobs into the sport?

I think there's a difference between welcoming noobs into the sport and not wanting to deal with someone else's children (who you presumably don't know) during a horse sale.

I don't mind welcoming people's kids onto my farm or giving a pony ride if I am able to set up the situation so that I can supervise - i.e., the parent and I are able to keep that child confined to the area around the small (bombproof) pony, chickens, and the arena. If I were trying to show a horse - bring it in, tack it, ride it, have the potential buyer ride it, set fences, etc - I absolutely could not keep an eye on their children at the same time, and I don't think it's a fair risk to ask me to take - nor is it fair to castigate a barn owner for requesting that situation not happen.

If I were in the business of selling children's ponies, obviously, it would be different. I do think, though, that trusting strangers to supervise their children on my property while I can't give my undivided attention is irresponsible.

JollyBadger
May. 5, 2011, 11:27 AM
As I read through these replies, I think back to last December when I attended the NRHA futurity. There were .families. there showing their futurity horses. There were kids ranging from babies to youth and know what? They weren't running rampant, they weren't causing destruction and trouble.

This was a public event and I'm sure that point will be brought up, but I also think that many of the people who seem to think that all kids are wild and out of control, have some issues.



I don't think anyone is saying that all children are going to be wild and out of control or that kids need to be kept in crates.

Leashes work fine too.

Just don't use a Flexi, please. I hate those things.:winkgrin:

RougeEmpire
May. 5, 2011, 11:31 AM
As I read through these replies, I think back to last December when I attended the NRHA futurity. There were .families. there showing their futurity horses. There were kids ranging from babies to youth and know what? They weren't running rampant, they weren't causing destruction and trouble.

This was a public event and I'm sure that point will be brought up, but I also think that many of the people who seem to think that all kids are wild and out of control, have some issues.

I think too, that this is going to be the last post for me on this thread.

Have a good day everyone.

To be honest I think in THIS day and age what YOU saw that day at an NRHA show is pretty rare. Im my experience most parents make little if any attempt to manage their kids and most kids are out of control. I HAVE banned people from being their kids to my stable(s) in some cases. Not all kids, THOSE kids and sadly more and more parents do less and less parenting. No one here is talking about "good kids", we are talking about how most parents seem to live in a world where they NEVER hold their kids responsible for anything, blame everyone else and seem to have ZERO protective instict.

Unless I am TEACHING (have control!) of those kids I really don't want them in my barn. Sadly you just can't rely on PARENTS to keep control of their kids these days. The problem is NOT the kids, the useless excuse for *parents*.

Trixie
May. 5, 2011, 11:32 AM
As I read through these replies, I think back to last December when I attended the NRHA futurity. There were .families. there showing their futurity horses. There were kids ranging from babies to youth and know what? They weren't running rampant, they weren't causing destruction and trouble.

This was a public event and I'm sure that point will be brought up, but I also think that many of the people who seem to think that all kids are wild and out of control, have some issues.

Great. So kids were well behaved at one public event, which totally means that they're ALWAYS going to be well behaved.

I must have missed where someone said that "all kids are wild and out of control," so I'm going to go ahead and assume that's an overreaction. We have all seen children that are NOT in control and well behaved - and if yours always are - that makes you the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

The fact is that without KNOWING the children, as is frequently the case during a horse sale, farm owners have absolutely no way of knowing how they will behave. And farm owners DO know that farms are a giant liability, and that these animals are large and inherently dangerous. So they are well within their rights to ask you not to bring your child due to the RISK, because if you don’t supervise your child and it gets injured, there is a VERY good chance they will be held liable, and could lose the farm.

I just can’t understand why anyone would have the audacity to be angry about that. It ISN’T personal.

pj
May. 5, 2011, 11:45 AM
This was a public event and I'm sure that point will be brought up, but I also think that many of the people who seem to think that all kids are wild and out of control, have some issues.

I think too, that this is going to be the last post for me on this thread.

Have a good day everyone.

I don't think anyone said or thinks ALL kids are wild or out of control. I know I don't but unfortunately I've had some dozys visit and I blame the Parents for that.
The kids are acting wild and disobedient and the Parents are looking so proud.
They'll glance at you to see if you are getting just how cute, brave and smart the little person is.

Unfortunately children in the family are the worse offenders but them I can really get on to and if their Mama and Daddy doesn't like it they can go home but so far none have said anything. I think they are finally getting the idea that my stance is the animals live here and have the right not to be teased, annoyed or abused in any way and those things will NOT happen.

Sometimes the adult with the child/children is the dumb one. Once caught my step daughter in law opening a gate so her two small children could go in and pet my daughter's 16.2 young saddlebred who was WIRED that day, running around like a wild thing. Way to go, Mama!!

CatOnLap
May. 6, 2011, 10:38 AM
It occurs to me you don't see too many small children running around shooting ranges, large machinery shops, or other extreme and dangerous environments.

Some parents do not realize that horses are on that level of danger. They think of horses as lovely giant Gund stuffies who are so obedient as to exceed the manners of an exceptional service dog and who anthropomorphize that the animal would never hurt a child.

We front a public trail near a city and we had a family of walkers appear at our front door asking if their 3 little girls, ages around 2-6, could pat the pretty horses. At least they asked first, before breaching the electric wire or enticing the horses to breach it. The little girls were all so gorgeous in their frilly summer outfits, sandals and such. Completely inappropriate to enter into a horse environment.Parents also were in shorts and sandals. I told the parents that as gently as I could, because they were nice folks, just naiive about horses. They still seemed pretty miffed that I refused what they thought was a totally reasonable request.

wendy
May. 6, 2011, 12:33 PM
Well...I'm not a baby sitter, nor do I want to be.
ditto. I don't have any interest in raising your obnoxious brat. The whole "it takes a village" crap makes me feel ill. I use birth control. Maybe you should have done so as well.

Nezzy
May. 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
SSS. Hee heee..

jane0327
May. 6, 2011, 06:56 PM
I have to say in 28 years of horse ownership I have probably met as many wacky badly behaved adults at horse barns as I have children :eek:
As far as the original question which has gone way way off topic, if i were selling a horse I would not mind someone bringing well mannered children with them while they came to look at the horse. As long as they behaved and were not out of control running wild. If they were then the parents would probably not be what I was looking for as far as a buyer for one of my animals anyway. Apples don't usually fall far from the tree.

WildBlue
May. 6, 2011, 07:21 PM
*blink* mouth falls open. I must be made different or something. The thought that a toddler could/should do something like that and the animal tolerate it would never have occurred to me. Ever.


All I can say is, god bless polo ponies. I've considered selling that mare but, between packing my DH around like a champ even when being a wench for others to ride and not killing the nephew when justly provoked, I think she'll have to stay for life.

Dad said the kid wasn't even crying when he saw him, so I suspect it was a case of pinched fingers after sticking them in horses' mouths one too many times. You know, one of the dangers I've warned about repeatedly. Sis got her feelings hurt when Dad yelled at her, so apparently she's not speaking to me at the moment. Which neatly solves the "Hello? Are you *trying* to kill your child?" problem for now. IF the child lives to the age where he can follow directions and he still wants to meet the horses, THEN we'll discuss "nurturing the next generation of horse enthusiasts"...

JollyBadger
May. 7, 2011, 04:13 PM
All I can say is, god bless polo ponies. I've considered selling that mare but, between packing my DH around like a champ even when being a wench for others to ride and not killing the nephew when justly provoked, I think she'll have to stay for life.

Dad said the kid wasn't even crying when he saw him, so I suspect it was a case of pinched fingers after sticking them in horses' mouths one too many times. You know, one of the dangers I've warned about repeatedly. Sis got her feelings hurt when Dad yelled at her, so apparently she's not speaking to me at the moment. Which neatly solves the "Hello? Are you *trying* to kill your child?" problem for now. IF the child lives to the age where he can follow directions and he still wants to meet the horses, THEN we'll discuss "nurturing the next generation of horse enthusiasts"...

Some of the worst offenders aren't always the TOTALLY clueless non-horsey types.

Some of worst are those who have a shred of horse experience and base their "knowledge" around that when it comes to deciding that they and their children ought to be welcome in any and all horse-related situations.

I'd be willing to bet that a kid getting bitten, kicked or stepped on (because of lack of supervision or basic common sense on the part of the parents) will do more to ensure the child loses interest in horses.

Ghazzu
May. 7, 2011, 07:28 PM
I can't believe what I see in this thread.

The attitude expressed here is best described as poisoning your own well.

First, everyone should consider that without the young people coming into a sport, there will eventually be no sport. It will slowly fade away.

Those who have vision know this and try hard to introduce the young people into their sport, profession or whatever.

Even if these children never own or ride a horse, someday they will be voting for county and state representatives. It is in our interest that they have some understanding and some good feelings for farm life. We need all the friends we can get.

Worse, they may even sit on the county commission or the zoning committees that decide issues of vital importance to land owners.

At the very least, they will someday be the drivers that do or do not zoom past you when you are riding on the shoulder of a country road or trying to catch a loose horse.

As for the liability issue, that is BS. If you are that afraid of litigation you have no business with a horse, a dog, a car, etc.

The litigation excuse is just an excuse for being a jerk.

Lastly, if you can't manage a visiting 6 year old, it is doubtful that you are very good at managing horses. There is not that much difference.

None of the above means that you let them run a muck. Greet them at the door with a firm explanation of the rules and see that the rules are followed.

I repeat; an "attitude" towards children is poisoning your own well.

CSSJR

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