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shakeytails
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:27 AM
After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.

We don't generally have a problem with stray dogs. At our old farm our neighbor's Rottie would occasionally come over and hang out in the pasture just watching the horses- I'd call them just so they'd know where she was- she was never any threat. On this farm we've caught one and called AC to come get it (no ID) and another dog we never saw again after calling it's owner a second time to come get it or next time we'd call AC.

We don't bother dogs that are just passing through or neighbor's dogs that aren't threatening. We've only had a few "chasers". One pit was killed almost instantly by our newly acquired 6 month old Pyr when he threatened one of the Corgis. DH dumped the body on a remote area of our property and never said a word to anybody.

DH actually waited and hunted a big black cat that killed several of our ducks for sport- it took him a week or two but he finally killed it.

The funniest thing happened with another pit bull owned by the same druggie neighbors. DH saw it chase my little mare in the round pen, so he went for the gun. The dog took off while he was in the house so he was walking our property with shotgun in hand looking for it. One of our wierd neighbors must have called the cops. As the officer was pulling down the driveway DH unloaded and laid the gun on the seat of the truck and walked toward the cop. Officer asked DH why he was walking around with a gun. DH replied "Because I can!". DH told the cop where the gun was if he wanted to see it (he didn't) and what was going on. The officer looked over the (uninjured) horse, got a description of the dog and said he'd shoot it himself if he saw it (we don't believe that but whatever...) and went on his merry way. We never saw the dog again so who knows what happened to it. It's nice to live in an area where the police understand that it's legal to shoot dogs threatening livestock.

Zu Zu
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:31 AM
THE TERM "SSS" = I DO NOT BELIEVE THE FIRST "S" HAS TO BE SHOOT..

HOW MANY CAN SHOOT ACCURATELY ?

HOW MANY HAVE GUNS ?

THINK IN TERMS OF DOGS DISAPPEARING .. OUT OF THE AREA

"S" CAN STAND FOR "SHIP-OUT"

MANY OPTIONS HERE ~ IMHO

JUST GET DOGS OUT OF THE AREA ...

fordtraktor
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:48 AM
When I was a kid we had some neighbors about half a mile away that let a pack of shelties/shepherd mutt crosses run loose. They dug into our chicken pen (6' high, with 6" of wire buried) and killed several of our flock. A few weeks later they were back (once dogs get a taste for chickens they are hard to dissuade) they were SSSed in the act.

It was pretty clear what happened to them, though, since the first time I suppose they'd come home with feathers and blood on them. The neighbors called the cops on us, etc. Of course we had a pen full of chicken feathers and blood to show the cops, as well as the hole they dug into the pen, so there was never an issue. Neighbors hated us until we moved and caused all sorts of hassle, though, for doing away with their darling pets. They seemed to think the whole endeavor was our fault for having (well-penned!) chickens and tempting those horrid dogs.

Ruined the chickens, they went from being friendly and good pets to being dangerous/floggers.

Sometimes you do need to shoot them if you can, particularly if they are in the process of attacking the livestock. I would not go into a pen with a killing dog and try to separate them without a gun or a shovel, likely to get bit yourself, they do work up quite a frenzy. And if you just wait, you are going to lose more chickens. Of course if you aren't sure you will hit the dog and not your livestock you shouldn't shoot, with a chicken I would take the risk, with a horse no.

MistyBlue
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:49 AM
After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.


Well, since the last of the three S words is "shut up"...not sure how many responses you'll get. ;)


"S" CAN STAND FOR "SHIP-OUT"


Yes it can. :yes: (although in that case it would be SS because the Shovel wouldn't be needed anymore, LOL)

Never a bad idea if it is an option. Live trapping and having it picked up or bringing it to a pound can be a viable working solution *if* the animal is able to be live trapped.

Sometimes though that's not viable if the animal is in the process of chasing/harassing/mauling livestock.

My personal working solutions are:
Deter or catch dog, talk to dog owners nicely, make friends if possible but also let them know as kindly as possible that in this state there is a law allowing me to protect my livestock with deadly force if necessary. (and that I really prefer to not use that option)

If it happens a second time, catch or paintball dog, call animal control to file report.

Third time...depending on canine and owners...the options are: SSS, S and notify authorities, trap and give to breed rescue with full disclosure of livestock bothering issues, wish I could S the owners.

I would only SSS if absolutely necessary. OTOH I would never allow my animals to be in extreme danger of injury or worse. And if it's a first time offense and there's nothing else I can do at the time due to the severity of an attack...SSS is the only option IMO.

LauraKY
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:52 AM
Yes, Kentucky is very understanding when it comes to dogs and livestock. A friend of mine owns an alpaca farm. He has 8 Pyrs. Last year three dogs (GSD and Rotties) climbed his fence after the alpacas. The Pyrs tore them apart. One Pyr was injured, but not seriously. The idiot owner of the dead dogs called the sheriff. Sheriff came out and told the dog owner he was lucky my friend didn't want to prosecute him and throw him in jail and told my friend, next time just shoot on sight as they're coming over the fence.

Phaxxton
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:57 AM
HOW MANY CAN SHOOT ACCURATELY ?

HOW MANY HAVE GUNS ?


Where I live, out in the country, the majority of people.

And no, we've never had to SSS. And yes, I agree the dog can be captured by animal control and/or relocated.

hundredacres
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:58 AM
Several years ago we had a couple of mini's as boarders and they were in a separate pen from the horses, We had low electric braid, but a couple of pit-bull mix strays slipped under the fence anyway. One waljed on the edge of the pen and the other was stalking the yearling mini when I ran out there screaming at them. Had I known how to shoot, I would have. Fortunately they ran off just from the sight of the sacry, crazy lady but I was really worried the next few days. My husband is an excellent shot and would have shot them if he had been home but the timing was so bad there wouldn't have been time to even go get a gun at that moment. He drove around looking for those dogs but never did find them and fortunately, we never saw them again. I love dogs and it would have killed me to do that - but still.

Currently there is a neigbors un-nuetered cat that keeps whooping our 11 year old nuetered males butt and we're tired of it. He can't even go out anymore without that cat stalking him and he doesn't wander - justs stays in the barn and hunsts mice and guards the banty's. If my husband gets his way, he'll dipose of that nasty cat...and I hate to say that I hope he does. I'm a cat lover but that cat isn't happy or healthy so it will be a mercy killing.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:12 AM
After reading the chicken thread, I was wondering how many people actually have done this.


Count me as one. Had a neighbor who had two dogs, partbreds, not clear just what ancestry. I had horses and llamas and Akitas but my dogs were kenneled. Dogs came over and tried to get one of the llamas....lots of bite marks in hind legs. Didn't catch but a glimpse of them so no time to shoot. Did know who owned them though and went to talk with him. Promised to keep them up but....well. Had the injured llama in the barn and about dusk several days later I hear a commotion in the barn...my dogs raising hell, other dogs growling and the llama screaming. Grabbed the gun and ran to the barn....dogs ran like the devil was on them but I did get one of them shot and killed. Took the body (found it was a nursing bitch) over to the owner. Told him I was sorry to have had to do that but that my llama was now injured so badly I was going back home to shoot him and asked him when I could expect his check for my injured/dead livestock and gave him the value of the animal. Got a check the next day and dog #2 never showed up again....nor did pups.

BTW...for those recommending bait and trap and remove....in many areas baiting is not legal as the argument is that the dog was enticed onto your property and would not have come on without your bait. Living livestock is not considered "bait" so the dog coming on to do damage to them is in a different situation. Gotta catch 'em in the act and shoot or photo and call AC.

JB
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:18 AM
I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies". :no:

Bluey
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:21 AM
We had a neighbor that lived in a nearby town and had a GSD and lab mix.
Those dogs got in trouble in town, so he broght them to the farm and left them there running loose.

They came the several miles to our pens and bothered the cattle when they came in to drink.
We caught them at it and shoot at them to scare them and they ran off and seemed to stay off.

A few days later we were weaning calves in the pens and the dogs came back, started running the penned calves around, that hit the fence and went thru it, hit two more fences, the dogs still after them.

We called the neighbor and told him we would shoot the dogs and he said "go ahead".
Then we really got mad and told him we were not there to take care of his problem dogs, it was up to him to pen them or shoot them.
If we had to shoot them, we would also file a report and let the court handle him.

Luckily, the times we had any problems, we didn't have to SS and definitely would not have shut up, but in some circumstances, that is what you have to do.

We never again saw the dogs.:no:
We were glad when he moved on.:(

ChocoMare
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:29 AM
Not for dogs yet, but a cat.... stray, wild big tom that attacked one of my barn cats. 11pm at night at the kitty ER and $450 worth of treatment to save her. Hubby went on the hunt the next day. 1 shot right between the eyes. Tom is under the manure pile.

equinelerium
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:50 AM
I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies". :no:

I second this big time! I had a horse recovering from an injury in a small paddock chased by a pack of "friendly" neighborhood dogs. No need to SSS them, horsey had good enough aim to send them running. Owners didn't believe us when we informed them and I was left with a horse so distrustful of dogs that I could no longer hunt him.

LisaB
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:56 AM
:yes:
Oh yes, I truly believe in the SSS.
And I would believe the cop, OP. They've seen too many innocent animals die gruesome deaths from dog attacks - and children too. They have no problems taking aim at them.
The hubby does the first S - he's a great shot.
Honestly, if you live in the country, you pretty much have to believe in SSS.

ReSomething
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:57 AM
That last S does stand for Shut up. I'll retell a good story though.

A buddy of mine had a sweet old furry mutt dog that lived outdoors on his porch. A lazy kid's pet. Well, he got a call from one of the neighbors saying there's a dog been worrying my sheep and it looks like *pet*, I'm going to shoot it the next time it comes on my place, and the answer was Oh no, *pet* is lazy and sleeps on the porch all night, she'd never go on your place and worry your sheep, go ahead and shoot it. Next night rolls around and buddy gets a call, I shot that dog that was worrying my sheep but I don't think I killed it outright. Where's that *pet* of yours?
Well, *pet* wasn't on the porch, *pet* came dragging in at 3 AM, shot clean through the ribcage, so $600 at the emergency vet and $600 for the value of the sheep later . . .

asb_own_me
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:59 AM
My neighbors know I will shoot to kill, so any escapees are quickly rounded up ;) Plus fortunately none of the jailbreakers seem to want to negotiate the combination electric braid and the loud and territorial mini donk team of Chuck and Larry.

One neighbor a few houses away has expressly, repeatedly, and quite seriously requested that we shoot his wife's daffy, half deaf, and completely senile elderly hunting dog who has a penchant for escaping and wandering to our property. The old coot couldn't chase a box turtle so I just shake my head and pick up the phone....

fargonefarm
Apr. 25, 2011, 12:46 PM
After reading this thread, and others like it, all I have to say to those who think "SSS" is cruel and unnecessary is those of us who can do it, will do it, because sadly the laws in this country prevent the smart animal owners from shooting the dumb ones. :yes:

Alagirl
Apr. 25, 2011, 12:49 PM
After reading this thread, and others like it, all I have to say to those who think "SSS" is cruel and unnecessary is those of us who can do it, will do it, because sadly the laws in this country prevent the smart animal owners from shooting the dumb ones. :yes:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH


too bad I love my ponies, or this would be my sig :lol:

Sadly it is frowned upon to bury (human) bodies in the manure pile....:cool:

AnotherRound
Apr. 25, 2011, 12:49 PM
I thought I would point out, too, that many a nice family dog is just that until he's running with other dogs - dogs in a pack will do what any one of them would never do alone.

"Pack mentality" has a meaning - they will gang up and hunt livestock and kill it, and sometimes kill senselessly, just because they are in a pack and

HydroPHILE
Apr. 25, 2011, 02:35 PM
I have been a member of the SSS Club. I am an avid animal lover, but when your livelihood is your livestock, there comes a time when there's only so much that can be done.

Setting:
100 acres; fencing consisting of hogwire, barbed wire runner at the top, and capped t-posts. 100 acres divided among 4 pastures containing red Limousin beef cattle and llamas (not together.)

Location:
RURAL Georgia (appx. an hour from Atlanta - no local Animal Control - no local Police Dept. you get the idea)

I worked on my ex's cattle farm, and there was a pack of dogs running together. These were not family pets. They were dogs that started out as family pets (or their parents, grandparents, whatever did) and as years went by, reproduced and ran with a pack that would kill other dogs, cats, chickens, turkeys, calves, and the final straw....two cria (baby llamas.)

My ex in-laws were in the mindset of SSS whatever came on their property (think Secondhand Lions but add animals into the mix of victims in their crosshairs.)

On December 7th, 2002, "Pearl" was born: a white cria. By the time I had ridden back up to the house to grab a camera, I noticed that mom looked worried, panicking, making blowing noises, and completely unsettled. She was being cornered by three dogs while "Pearl" was being helplessly ripped apart by the others.

Yes, I SSS. Yes, I felt it was valid as llamas and cattle were their primary source of income. Were there more SSS incidents? Yes. Did the packs ever cease? Not in the time that I had been with them.

citydog
Apr. 25, 2011, 03:10 PM
Y'know, there are few people who advocate more for dogs and non-lethal solutions to behavior/management issues than I do, but I got a rifle and learned to use it specifically to be able to protect my animals from the unfortunate dogs of the idiot neighbors.

New neighbor's intact, large breed dog came onto my property and ran my sheep through the fence. I drove the dog off, and promptly called animal control. I also contacted local folks known to have this breed, as I thought it might be a stray (it was in poor condition, and I didn't know we had a new neighbor at that point). Dog was back the next day, *much* more intense, and more fencing damaged. This time the new neighbor showed up as I was driving the creature off with a pitchfork.

Owner insisted dog wasn't a "bad dog" (which of course it wasn't, it was just a dog :) ) and that he just wanted to say hello to the sheep. I explained that, no, he was progressing to killing the sheep, reminded him that we have a leash law, told him what it would cost to replace the fence and that I'd take a check, and offered to work with him to set the dog up for a massive zap from the fence in the event that the dog inadvertently got loose again. New neighbor obviously thought I was out of line to suggest he keep his dog on his own property.

Not 10 minutes later, as I was on the phone to AC (document! document!), neighbor shows back up with a check. As I'm taking the check, his dog runs past us again ("He keeps chewing through the rope!") headed for the sheep. Luckily this time the dog got a significant hit of the electric on its nose (big-coated breed so had just gone through the fence before without feeling anything) and took off. Neighbor was upset that I was responsible for scaring the dog.

ACO went and gave them a talking to, made it very clear to me that I could do whatever I had to do, made it clear to them that I was being far more dog-friendly than I had to be and that they should expect the dog to end up shot if they continued to allow it to get loose.

Dog has been secured ever since, and they take it for leash walks.

So while I *haven't* SSSed, and never want have to, I'm prepared to, and understand that sometimes it's what has to be done.


I wish everyone who has asked on this forum "what's so bad about letting my really nice pet doggie roam the neighborhood?" would read this thread. Some people simply do not believe what dogs do on their own or worse, in packs of "really nice pet doggies". :no:

:yes:

Yep. Utterly irresponsible on many levels to let dogs roam. I don't care *where* people live. Dogs are dogs--they're predators and pack animals, and *any* dog is capable of becoming a problem around stock.

BLBGP
Apr. 25, 2011, 03:24 PM
In these cases I have no problem with the first S. It's the second and third S's that are the bigger problem. Granted, I know many of you are dealing with not-so-fine specimins of humanity but what Bluey did (show the owner the outcome so that owner now keeps their dogs away) sends a much clearer message with a long term solution.

I'm a responsible owner whose neutered/spayed pets do not roam free ever, but I know it's an awful feeling to lose a pet and have no idea where it is. Think of all the angst in last years (?) lost GP thread....I honestly didn't follow it to the end but it was horrible for her to simply not know - worse than finding a dead dog. Again, I know many of you are not dealing with the nicest folk in the world, and in those cases your safety is much more important than them knowing what happened to Fluffy, but just had to throw this out there.

Carry on. :)

leilatigress
Apr. 25, 2011, 03:46 PM
When I was a kid our property would get raided by the local dogs. Dad was a helluva shot and the Pal mare was a helluva shot as well. I have no idea if the people were scared of dad or if they knew they didn't have a case against us even when dad was nice enough to load up the carcasses of the dogs and drop them on the doorstep with an invoice of how much the chickens cost to replace. Worst one though were kids that liked to walk our fence line and throw rocks at the horses. Pal mare got lucky with a shot back and hit the kid in the head with a rock. That one actually got some police attention since the kid's parents tried to sue us. We countered sued for potential loss of income if the kid's tricks would have actually injured the mare and they shut up. So yes I've done it and honestly if the dog is dumb enough to get killed by my horse I am really not sympathetic to the owner. If you want your dog to live keep it in the fence or on a leash.

fordtraktor
Apr. 25, 2011, 04:13 PM
Well, that's all very nice and good, BLBGP, but I don't trust just about anybody not to do some serious retribution if they know you killed their dog. Particularly if they are the kind of person who lets dogs roam around in the first place. Would not go up to someone's house with their dead dog in my truck, tell them I shot it and expect to walk away without some serious confrontation. Might do it with a police escort but not alone, that's asking for trouble. Foolish.

Sorry, it's just not practical. I feel for anyone that lost a dog but not going to put my life at risk, known people to get killed for less. Can't recommend anyone else to do it either -- it's not noble, it's painting a target on yourself.

Trevelyan96
Apr. 25, 2011, 04:23 PM
S -Shoot
S - Shovel
S - Shut Up

Due to #3, I'll never tell.

Gloria
Apr. 25, 2011, 04:30 PM
I think the problem some have problems with SSS is while they themselves are responsible owners who really care for their animals, they "assume" others would feel the same, when sadly in reality,is simply too far from the truth.

I never did it but that is because I can't shoot and I can't sit around to wait for them to show up - got a full time desk job... but darn if I could shoot and I had time, I wouldn't hesitate.

If those dogs want to act like dogs, they get to be treated like ones. They don't get to act like dogs, and then when time comes around, expect to be treated like civil humans.

I have one neighbor that fits the a$$ category. His dog attack and when confronted, told the the owners of the victims to go ahead to shoot the dogs. They didn't feel any wrong with their dogs attacking - they were simply acting like dogs according to them. They also leave their own dogs to rot in the front yard, and simply covered them with a bath tub when their next door neighbor complained long enough. You will be dreaming if you expect them to sign you a check for your damages. Their dogs will be shot if I could, and of course if I were to do it, I'd make sure nobody knew about it.

I have another neighbor that fits the nicer owner category. One year my mare aborted a filly (two months premature- no way she was born alive). Their dog evidently came into the pasture and dragged the carcass out back home. They (the owner) found the carcass, got extremely upset with their own dog (he thought the dog had attacked), and was about to shoot it on the spot until we frantically told him that the filly was premature and the dog must have just found it already dead. If their dogs did come to attack, I would try to trap and send them home: not because I think the dogs deserve it, but because I think the owner deserve it.

Diamondindykin
Apr. 25, 2011, 04:37 PM
I have a neighbor that seems to think that letting their dogs run loose is acceptable. Both dogs never went after the horses but I was always more worried about my barn cats (whom I would protect as if they were my children:yes:). I let them know that if they continued to come on my property that I would shoot them. I never saw them again. One died a couple years ago and I think that they other one went to live somewhere else.

I don't think that most people enjoy killing dogs but we need to protect our own sometimes.

Hampton Bay
Apr. 25, 2011, 04:38 PM
We did it once with a neighbor's dog that wouldn't stay in the fence. after returning it to the yard several times, and informing owners, and then having the dog knock down a kid and scratch her face, we shot it and dumped the body in the woods.

I almost had to do another one, but the owner ran over the dog before I could catch it in the act with the gun in hand.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 25, 2011, 05:04 PM
About 5 years ago I had a pair of due soon mares in my round pen where I could keep a close eye on them. Also had a Saturday morning appt in town for about an hour. Got home to find a neighbors two dogs (one dobie cross, one brindle pit cross) running around and around the round pen with the mares lathered up and shaking. I had called the neighbor before with no reasonable response. I had chased her dogs home a couple of times. I had called the tribal police (this was rented property on an Indian colony) before without a lot of luck. Had gone to the neighbor and spoken with her explaining that the dogs needed to be kept from the mares...and was told that "no f.ing white bitch is gonna tell me what to do with my dogs" to which I replied (in one of my more mature moments) "THIS f.ing white bitch is gonna kill your dogs if I catch them over here again". Anyway, Sunday night the black tobi mare, daughter of a world ch, lost her foal with a red bag delivery. I loaded dead foal into the back of my pickup truck and bloody clothes and all drove to the tribal offices where I had the tribal police come out and take a report and photos. The tribal attorney happened to be there at the time and took me aside and told me "don't care what the tribal rules are, those dogs come on your place again you are gonna feel you or your animals are threatened and you are gonna shoot the SOB's, right?"...."and if you do, I'm not going to do a damned thing to prosecute you for protecting what's yours". Apparently tribal rules allowed dogs to be at large anywhere on the colony although state law (not in effect on tribal land) doesn't. Apparently either my comment had some effect or the neighbor got a talk with the tribal officers....the dogs stayed home after that. I did NOT get compensated for a dead foal however.

carolprudm
Apr. 25, 2011, 05:09 PM
I wish I had a firearm (and the knowledge to use it) a few weeks ago. I was wakling down to the barn when I heard a commotion at the far end of my pasture. Two strays , a border collie and a chow, had my barn cat cornered. He had given the chow a bloody nose but the dog wouldn't back down...the BC was just along for the ride. The cat had teeth marks on both sides. I took him to the vet who said he was lucky to be alive.

Called AC and told them who I thought owned the dogs but AFAIK they didn't do anything.

Epona142
Apr. 25, 2011, 05:10 PM
I don't tolerate loose dogs anywhere near my goats. 'Nuff said. In the case of ONE dog, wasn't me who did the deed, but my beloved herd queen with horns, the only goat I have with horns.

In a second case, my black pony stomped another. Haven't had a problem since I got that pony, actually. Interesting!

Nezzy
Apr. 25, 2011, 05:21 PM
In these cases I have no problem with the first S. It's the second and third S's that are the bigger problem. Granted, I know many of you are dealing with not-so-fine specimins of humanity but what Bluey did (show the owner the outcome so that owner now keeps their dogs away) sends a much clearer message with a long term solution.

I'm a responsible owner whose neutered/spayed pets do not roam free ever, but I know it's an awful feeling to lose a pet and have no idea where it is. Think of all the angst in last years (?) lost GP thread....I honestly didn't follow it to the end but it was horrible for her to simply not know - worse than finding a dead dog. Again, I know many of you are not dealing with the nicest folk in the world, and in those cases your safety is much more important than them knowing what happened to Fluffy, but just had to throw this out there.

Carry on. :)

If these people cared about their pets they would not allow them t run loose all over the place. It's against the law in most places, And if you love your dogs, you protect them. I feel bad for the dogs, but i won't let any animal hurt one of mine.

JanM
Apr. 25, 2011, 06:38 PM
BLBGP- (or whatever-it's been a very long day and my brain went home early without me) In a nicer world you could tell people that their animals are a problem, and that would be the end of it. However, many people when told about a problem animal deny it's their dog, deny it's a problem, and deny that they have to do anything. Many people have so-called pets and don't care about their welfare. But, a real jerk who lets a predatory animal run doesn't care about their animal or yours, and in my view is the most likely to retaliate against someone else defending their own property, animals or relatives.

Near where I used to live a man had his chickens raided and a few killed, he traced the tracks to the neighbor (a new city transplant) who called him eight kinds of liar about poopsie's deed. The next time he saw the dog go after his chickens he shot the dog, and unfortunately wounded it instead of a clean kill. A local deputy arrested the man for animal cruelty, complete with his mug shot in the local paper. After the DA saw the charges he dropped them since the man was on his own property and acting within the law. The neighbor then tried to sue him for little poopsie's medical bills and eventual euthanasia-she lost big time, including having to pay his court costs. You really can't fix stupid can you?

DownYonder
Apr. 25, 2011, 07:46 PM
If those dogs want to act like dogs, they get to be treated like ones. They don't get to act like dogs, and then when time comes around, expect to be treated like civil humans.

I think that says it all. :yes:

I'm not on a farm and I love animals as much as the next person, but if marauding dogs were after my livestock or pets, you better believe I would SSS.

fivehorses
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:17 PM
I spoke to an old colleague of mine this morning, who use to be a state police high ranking officer. We did security detail for the organization I worked for so that is how I got to know him.

Anyhow, he told me, 'I don't think you have the psyche to kill a dog' it would bother you too much afterwards and you know it'. I think he is right.

I can say I would, and I might. I am sure I would at least let the gun shoot a few rounds. However, I think if an animal was ripping apart my animals, or any animal for that matter, I think I could do it.

I come from a family where my dad always said, if you can't take a clean shot, then don't take it. I don't feel I am a good enough shot at this point, but I want to be.

I liked what ZuZu said about the sss...one of the s's meaning to ship them.
I would hate to shoot a dog, and it really would have to be threatening me or ripping at one of my animals to shoot it. I just could not randomly shoot a dog that comes to my farm but is not in the act, even if they may have once been or have the potential to be. I don't think I am that cold conscious. But in the act, yes.

I would feel bad for sure, but if it saved my loved animals life, well then so be it.

Zu Zu
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:39 PM
Thoughts and prayers and hugs for you fivehorses and all your barn ...

This is the most uncomfortable it gets for an animal owner ~ fearing :eek: delusional neighbors will harm your stock..

Please be careful and smart and try to always have someone with you or mace and your phone ~~~ Sheriff on speed dial ..

I have had the worst of neighbors "where you are" is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E-
take care of yourself and your animals as no one else can

pAin't_Misbehavin'
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:45 PM
I've lived on this farm for fourteen years and never had to do it. *knocks wood*

I don't have chickens or sheep or goats or anything helpless, though. I have three horses, all of whom are singularly unimpressed by canines. In fact, I have one whose former owner purposely set a pair of large dogs on him, in an effort to stop his harassment of another horse, but he was undeterred. My cats are indoor only (because of the fox, coyote and bobcat) and my dogs are outdoors in their fence only when I'm home (for pretty much the same reason).

The loose canines who cross my farm these days are mostly hunting hounds, who of course aren't hunting horses.:D And the coyote, who have far easier prey afoot.

The neighbors used to let their yard dogs run loose, but time and trucks and attrition have pretty much taken care of those. Back in the day, I discouraged those dogs by grabbing up a hoe or whatever was handy and chasing them back home, screaming and whacking hell out of whatever inanimate object we passed. Not only did it keep the dogs home, but the neighbors were scared of me for a long time, too.:lol:

The only people I've known around here to shoot dogs are redneck trash who do it for sport.

rustbreeches
Apr. 25, 2011, 09:01 PM
One time I was out riding on the large farm I rode for, with another girl who had her dog along. Two very large strays challenged her and paid absolutely no attention to us until I charged them with the too slow to go TB chestnut 4yo tank, I mean filly I was on. She thought it was great, grabbed the bit and tracked them like the best damn cutting horse ever. We stayed on them to the fenceline and never saw them again. I love chesnut mares!

The great thing about living out with people who are from the country and not just transplants is that it is understood your dog can come over and visit, but if it messes with livestock, its going to get shot

Hampton Bay
Apr. 25, 2011, 09:34 PM
The great thing about living out with people who are from the country and not just transplants is that it is understood your dog can come over and visit, but if it messes with livestock, its going to get shot

Be careful with that mentality. It might be true where you live, and I certainly wish it were true everywhere, but some of those people are the worst about retaliating against your animals, or making your life a living hell.

JSwan
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:06 PM
I do understand, but a wandering pet can run into more than just a bullet.

A friend called me early this spring distraught at what she had found. A dead Golden Retriever floating in her pond. The dog must have wandered onto the ice, crashed through and not been able to get out... then drowned. She lives on a large farm and there was no way for her to know anything was out on the ice.

When spring thaw came around the body floated to the top.

She was so upset to discover that this poor dog had probably been frightened and struggled for a long time, finally succumbing to the cold and drowning. All alone.

She did try to find the owner but never did.

Loose pets can be attacked by predators, run over, shot, poisoned - all because their owners failed them or just didn't care.

When a landowner dispatches a dog preying or harassing livestock, they are doing more than protecting their own animals. They are performing a service to the community. The dog they chase off may just wander over to the next farm and chase or kill animals. Not all dogs can be caught - many run from unfamiliar people so even if a farmer wanted to take the dog to the shelter (if there is one), or call the owner - they can't.

Dogs with a strong uncontrolled prey drive do not stop attacking livestock. They're not bad dogs, they are just being dogs. Had they received proper training they'd not do it.

But it is hard to think of the dog owner's precious feelings when you discover a sheep or other animal screaming in pain because cute little Fido ripped its guts out.

The victim is the landowner and the animals in his care. Yes, I feel terribly sorry for the dog who has a butthead for an owner. But I feel sorrier for the farmer and his livestock. And before LGD's are again touted as some sort of miracle cure all - not every landowner/farmer wants them - it's just one more animal to take care of.





I'm a responsible owner whose neutered/spayed pets do not roam free ever, but I know it's an awful feeling to lose a pet and have no idea where it is. Think of all the angst in last years (?) lost GP thread....I honestly didn't follow it to the end but it was horrible for her to simply not know - worse than finding a dead dog.

Catersun
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:01 PM
and some dogs who are raised well and trained sometimes have such a high prey drive that they are a danger to stock.

JSwan
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:16 PM
True, Catersun. Which is why my sisters wonderful, friendly, well trained and much loved dog is no longer welcome to stay here.

hosspuller
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:11 AM
Medium sized dog was chasing the horses in the pasture a few years ago. I went out to the pasture with three things. A dog biscuit, a leash, and a pistol.
The dog chose well and lived to see animal control.

Since then I've had several dogs passing through. They don't bother me or horses, I don't bother them.

MistyBlue
Apr. 26, 2011, 09:36 AM
Back in the day, I discouraged those dogs by grabbing up a hoe or whatever was handy and chasing them back home, screaming and whacking hell out of whatever inanimate object we passed. Not only did it keep the dogs home, but the neighbors were scared of me for a long time, too.
:lol: Yeah, that does work well. Scaring the neighbors without meaning to, they tend to keep their animals away from The Crazy Lady. :D
For a while I assumed it was my overly outgoing personality that made my neighbors good folks to live near. Folks that don't get upset if I return a wandering dog or whatever...never argue or retaliate.
And then I realized it probably had more to do with the neighbors thinking I'm nucking futs. :winkgrin: I've driven the tractor on the street more than once wearing a hot pink feather boa and oversized sunglasses with large feathers sticking out of the side. (my impression of Lisa from Green Acres, it was a joke) I'm often seen stopping in the road to remove road kill and inspecting it to see "who" it is so I can keep tracking habitats in my area. A turkey vulture has been known to follow me around. I used to have an aged coyote that also followed me everywhere. I argue with the crows.

I see these things as totally normal. Mr Blue finally pointed out that most other folks probably do NOT see these things as normal. :cool:

JSwan...that poor retriever. :(
Dogs can get loose, it happens. Unfortunatelly not all owners even try to keep them contained though. Or if they go walkabout some owners just wait for them to come back. The list of dangers for wandering dogs is ridiculously long. If an owner doesn't care (or eveer think it'll happen) about other property owners dealing with their loose animals...they should at least care somewhat for their dogs. And for those that do care about the dogs...no, they don't stay out of trouble's way no matter how you see them act at home. And no, I don't care how much an owner swears up and down their dog would NEVER become a pest or bother anything or get into dangerour situations.

Coyotes, cars and property owners are only the short list of things that can injure or kill your dog.

Raccoons, fisher, badger, otter, deer, bear, bobcats, lynx, LGD, cows, horses, traps, teens with weapons, porcupine, teens on ATVs, hunters, venomous snakes, etc...the list goes on and on.
Bambi doesn't always run from a dog. And one swift strike on the head from a cheesed off doe will kill most dogs. They kill each other that way on a regular basis. (deer are not gentle creatures despite their public image) Otter may look adorable and be playful as heck, they'll also mess up a dog 7 ways to Sunday. It's a large weasel folks. Same with a fisher.
That's just a partial list of canine hazards in New England. Add in moose, elk, panthers, gators, etc depending on where you live.

It's just never ever worth it to allow a dog to roam free, even if it stays around your property "most" of the time or if you think your property is isolated enough from other properties.

JB
Apr. 26, 2011, 10:54 AM
MistyBlue, I swear to God one day I'm going to come spend a couple of weeks living with you :lol:

kristinq
Apr. 26, 2011, 11:10 AM
MistyBlue, I swear to God one day I'm going to come spend a couple of weeks living with you :lol:

Me too! Sounds like a blast!

carolprudm
Apr. 26, 2011, 11:59 AM
When we lived in NoVA a neighbors golden caught and killed one of my geese. Good dog came when I called him and he had a phone number on his collar. I called the owner who said of course "Not MY dog, he would never kill anything"

When she came to get him I presented her with the dead goose...the look on her face was beyond priceless.... and told her that if I saw the dog again it was going to the pound.


Yup, a few days later it was back and I called AC with a full description of past events.

I never was the dog again

Tommyknockers
Apr. 28, 2011, 01:03 PM
Anyway, Sunday night the black tobi mare, daughter of a world ch, lost her foal with a red bag delivery. I loaded dead foal into the back of my pickup truck and bloody clothes and all drove to the tribal offices where I had the tribal police come out and take a report and photos".

Ummm, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you were not present when the mare foaled?. "red baggers" are usually born fine if you are in attendance and know what you are doing. Having foaled many mares and seen a fair amount of "red bag" babies, I can't remember one who did not live. I would not have paid you for the dead foal either.

keepthelegend
Apr. 28, 2011, 01:33 PM
I have never had a problem with stray dogs so I honestly don't know...but can't you just shoot the dog with a bb gun? Would that not scare and hurt him enough to learn his lesson? I hate to sound PETA, but I love dogs!

Boomer
Apr. 28, 2011, 01:36 PM
Where I live, out in the country, the majority of people.

And no, we've never had to SSS. And yes, I agree the dog can be captured by animal control and/or relocated.

Some of us are not so lucky to have animal control to call.

Huntertwo
Apr. 28, 2011, 05:16 PM
In these cases I have no problem with the first S. It's the second and third S's that are the bigger problem. Granted, I know many of you are dealing with not-so-fine specimins of humanity but what Bluey did (show the owner the outcome so that owner now keeps their dogs away) sends a much clearer message with a long term solution.

I'm a responsible owner whose neutered/spayed pets do not roam free ever, but I know it's an awful feeling to lose a pet and have no idea where it is. Think of all the angst in last years (?) lost GP thread....I honestly didn't follow it to the end but it was horrible for her to simply not know - worse than finding a dead dog. Again, I know many of you are not dealing with the nicest folk in the world, and in those cases your safety is much more important than them knowing what happened to Fluffy, but just had to throw this out there.

Carry on. :)

If the dog is allowed to roam continually, then I'd doubt the owner's really give a crap. :no:

My two Chihuahuas are always out with me and never, ever allowed to roam. Ever. I'm petrified of cars, bigger dogs, coyotes, fisher cats, and so on. Never mind the fact, they'd drive the neighbors crazy.. :)

If it is a one time accidental escapee, well, that's a bit different. Again, if the dog is perpetually loose, I doubt caring owners would make a habit out of this.

wendy
Apr. 28, 2011, 06:32 PM
If the dog is allowed to roam continually, then I'd doubt the owner's really give a crap.
yeah, and how many people who post on this board occasionally (often?) admit there is NOTHING to prevent their dog from wandering off their farm property? no solid fence, no invisible fence, nothing but hope. You don't do anything to keep your dog on your property why are you complaining about people who do exactly as you do?
I sometimes suspect the people who post "well my dog NEVER leaves my property" despite the complete lack of fencing are the exact same people whose dogs are being complained about and are being considered as SSS candidates.

calling AC or taking dog to pound is, IMHO, much more cruel than SSS- most of these dogs spend three days confined and in terror and then die, while SSS is instant death.

-we've never SSS dogs, but well, quite a few cats. Keep your destructive stinky cats at home too.

LovelyBay
Apr. 28, 2011, 10:11 PM
My horse was attacked by a dog, and trust me if I had ever gotten my hands on that dog, SSS would have applied. Technically in Oregon you can shoot a dog in the act of chasing livestock. Sadly as soon as someone tackled the pitbull off of my horse I lost the right to shoot it. I went to court to have the dog destroyed anyways and there was a formal investigation. Don't worry, my horse stomped the crap out of that dog, and sadly it did live to see another day (and kill a goat elsewhere).

We keep a loaded gun in our house at all times (no children and non ever come over), but I wouldn't hesitate to shot a dog that was harassing my livestock, especially if it has happened before.

LovelyBay
Apr. 28, 2011, 10:13 PM
And if we got lazy and let our dogs run over to the neighbors, I would fully expect them to attend to the matter and we would expect to have to bear full responsibility too. Animal ownership isn't a right. It's a privilege, and it comes with the burden of responsibility. Unfortunately, too many people don't care to take full responsibility of anything, let alone their animals, as is evidenced by the number of dogs running amuck, or animals being starved and otherwise abused. I wish it was a privilege that the law would get tougher about taking away from certain individuals.

I <3 U! Can you be my neighbor pretty please?;)

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 28, 2011, 10:17 PM
Anyway, Sunday night the black tobi mare, daughter of a world ch, lost her foal with a red bag delivery. I loaded dead foal into the back of my pickup truck and bloody clothes and all drove to the tribal offices where I had the tribal police come out and take a report and photos".

Ummm, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you were not present when the mare foaled?. "red baggers" are usually born fine if you are in attendance and know what you are doing. Having foaled many mares and seen a fair amount of "red bag" babies, I can't remember one who did not live. I would not have paid you for the dead foal either.

You're right....I was gone for about 2 hours doing a lesson with one of my customers. The mare wasn't looking as if in labor and I had no idea that this was coming. The only other red bag in 30+ years I was present for and yes, that foal did live. Under the law here livestock owners whose animals are in any way injured or damaged by dogs are automatically to be reimbursed the cost/loss/damages within 72 hours...the dollar amount doubles at 72 hours and at periods beyond that. This includes abortions or other delivery problems that can be attributed to dog damage/harrassment.

KrazyTBMare
Apr. 28, 2011, 11:05 PM
Reading these stories really makes me appreciate my neighbors and where I live. I dont have stray dogs or cats or any animals on my property. The one time we had a dog come over was when we first bought the property and the neighbors lab from across the street came over to say hello. We put up no climb and that was the last time any animal came onto the property uninvited.

Our neighbors dont have animals that roam freely or break free, etc. There are 13 houses on this street, plus mine, and in 5 years, never had to deal with any of that. Again, reading this thread has me thanking my lucky stars for it too.

We have a 12g shotgun in the closet and I know how to use it. Id hate to use it on an animal but when something is threatening myself, my family, or my animals, I can do what needs to be done I believe. I hope I never have to find out though.

WildBlue
Apr. 29, 2011, 12:03 AM
I have never had a problem with stray dogs so I honestly don't know...but can't you just shoot the dog with a bb gun? Would that not scare and hurt him enough to learn his lesson? I hate to sound PETA, but I love dogs!

The BB guns I've used were 1. not at all accurate . 2. didn't have enough 'oomph' to really be noticed by something really furry. A pellet gun *might*. Believe me, I strongly considered borrowing a paintball gun and sending the repeat offender home multi-colored. Unfortunately, returning him to his owners and non-lethally driving him off just taught him to be sneakier.

Gloria
Apr. 29, 2011, 11:13 AM
You're right....I was gone for about 2 hours doing a lesson with one of my customers. The mare wasn't looking as if in labor and I had no idea that this was coming. The only other red bag in 30+ years I was present for and yes, that foal did live. Under the law here livestock owners whose animals are in any way injured or damaged by dogs are automatically to be reimbursed the cost/loss/damages within 72 hours...the dollar amount doubles at 72 hours and at periods beyond that. This includes abortions or other delivery problems that can be attributed to dog damage/harrassment.

coloredcowhorse, while I believe you have a legitimate reason to believe there is a direct connection between the attack and the red-bag, I'm wondering how you "prove" it? No I'm not questioning your judgement, just wondering the logistic aspect of making this connection... How do you explain to the lawman that, yes, the dog attack caused the red-bag, and so on and so fort, especially since red-bag can also be caused by so many other things such as infected fescue?

katarine
Apr. 29, 2011, 11:36 AM
Once. So long ago the owner has since passed. He had three Rotties. They came onto our place and hurt our big protection dog. DH told owner, and little 'fights' occured a couple more times. Owner did nothing about it. DH went out to shoot targets one afternoon with the AR15 and the Rotties came trotting down our pond road, which is entirely private and invisible to the outside world. DH parked the Kawasaki Mule and got out, assessing the situation. Rotties did the same, splitting up and moving to circle the Mule in aggressive postures. Blam blam dead dead. The uncertain female assessed her dead pack members and split, she never came back.

You wanna play dog biscuit bingo with that sort of situation, you go right ahead.

ReSomething
Apr. 29, 2011, 12:14 PM
coloredcowhorse, while I believe you have a legitimate reason to believe there is a direct connection between the attack and the red-bag, I'm wondering how you "prove" it? No I'm not questioning your judgement, just wondering the logistic aspect of making this connection... How do you explain to the lawman that, yes, the dog attack caused the red-bag, and so on and so fort, especially since red-bag can also be caused by so many other things such as infected fescue?

Fescue is a regional hay. CC may not have had it or fed it.

The rule was the same where I grew up regarding sheep. There was a county wide leash law for the protection of livestock.
If any harm came to the sheep and your dog was seen or had been seen worrying or harassing said sheep, you paid for the farmer's losses. Observing a pregnant ewe being harassed and then suffering an abortion in less than a weeks' time, well, the dog would be presumed guilty under the law.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 29, 2011, 03:10 PM
coloredcowhorse, while I believe you have a legitimate reason to believe there is a direct connection between the attack and the red-bag, I'm wondering how you "prove" it? No I'm not questioning your judgement, just wondering the logistic aspect of making this connection... How do you explain to the lawman that, yes, the dog attack caused the red-bag, and so on and so fort, especially since red-bag can also be caused by so many other things such as infected fescue?

Desert land, irrigated alfalfa surrounding horse area and horses fed straight alfalfa hay....no fescue anywhere. And I didn't have to prove the dog chasing the mare to a lather was the direct cause....the law is simple here...if a dog or dogs are found to be harrassing livestock or actually attacking and the livestock involved are pregnant any subsequent loss of that pregnancy within a relatively short time period is automatically assumed to be due to the dog behavior and the owner is legally responsible.

Gloria
Apr. 29, 2011, 03:47 PM
Ah I see... Thanks. That reminds me of a story that happened in ancient China. This Prime Minister completely revamped the then complicated laws to make them awfully simple and straightforward, leaving little leeway. It went the similiar effect of "You steal -> you get your hand cut off; you kill -> you get your head cut off;" and so on and so forth. There was not "but...", not plead of insanity or anything like that. He got criticized harshly and eventually had his own head cut off for being ridiculously harsh (plus other political reasons of course). But darn the whole society was awfully orderly and safe. People lived in peace: no body bothered to close the front door at nights.

EqTrainer
Apr. 29, 2011, 10:04 PM
Well..

The last letter does stand for Shut Up.

So I will decline to answer for myself.

However, when I was a child my dad routinely shot any dog that came on our farm that showed any sign of bad behaviour. One morning I went into the barn to feed and there were three dogs curled up in the hay at the bottom of the hayloft steps. One was a saint bernard, the other two I dont remember... The big dog growled at me. I backed out and ran to the house...my dad shot all three and buried them behind the orchard. Later he found out that the saint bernard was over 100 miles away from home and was very aggressive. I think I was very lucky that morning.

CatOnLap
Apr. 29, 2011, 11:27 PM
reminds me of that scene in "To Kill A Mockingbird, " where the lawyer/dad shoots a rabid dog. It's pathetic, heart wrenching and necessary.

katarine
Apr. 29, 2011, 11:37 PM
agreed.

More than a decade later, I hate it that DH had to kill those dogs. But he HAD to kill them. Kill or be maimed or killed. Do you even want to imagine one man vs two Rotties with ill intent? Do you?

Life makes you choose sometimes.Doesn't make it fun, frivolous, or light. But it is what it is.

danceronice
Apr. 29, 2011, 11:50 PM
We've tried, but sadly the case where it was serious we were in the midst of packing to go back to our town house (the farm was more a vacation cottage then) and by the time Dad got the .22 out and loaded the dogs took off.

They'd pinned a deer in our river. I had never heard a deer scream or make any noise before that. Those two dogs meant business and we'd have shot them if we could. The DNR has no problem whatsoever with killing dogs harassing game.

Mostly, though, dogs who've turned up have been dumps and friendly, or friendly neighbor's dogs (my one neighbor had a lab who made a hobby of slipping his collar and going visiting--nice dog, came right to you, never bothered anyone, but he liked to roam.)

fivehorses
Apr. 30, 2011, 08:49 AM
I guess I am wondering how many of you are the one shooting the dogs?

By that I mean you, vs a DH or SO?

I think that makes a big difference. I was not brought up to do that kind of thing, but know my brothers and father were the ones to do that kind of business.

Soooo, many say they would or have, but really curious, since many of you are woman, how many have done that yourself...pull the trigger that is, and for that matter dig the hole.

Epona142
Apr. 30, 2011, 11:37 AM
My husband couldn't shoot the broad side of a barn, bless him. He buries them though.

asb_own_me
Apr. 30, 2011, 03:28 PM
@fivehorses - I'm the one who would be home during the day more often - I work from a home office if I'm not in a facility with clients. If DH were home, I would ask him to do it. No doubt he's a better shot and a much cooler head in an escalating situation.

MunchkinsMom
Apr. 30, 2011, 04:43 PM
I feel fortunate that I live in an area with a decent AC staff, when I call for a stray dog, particulary an unfriendly one, they come within an hour if it is during the day.

If it was a really aggressive dog, I am also fortunate that most of my neighbors are good marksmen, and would not have any qualms on dispatching with the dogs.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 30, 2011, 05:26 PM
I guess I am wondering how many of you are the one shooting the dogs?

By that I mean you, vs a DH or SO?

I think that makes a big difference. I was not brought up to do that kind of thing, but know my brothers and father were the ones to do that kind of business.

Soooo, many say they would or have, but really curious, since many of you are woman, how many have done that yourself...pull the trigger that is, and for that matter dig the hole.

I have. But I like guns and target shooting as well so am comfortable with loading, holding, aiming and the noise/recoil.

exie4me
Apr. 30, 2011, 05:40 PM
If they confiscate your guns you might want to contact the NRA for help.

OverandOnward
Apr. 30, 2011, 05:51 PM
In the 'burbs, actually. Neighbor's tom was attacking my neutered male, on my patio, surrounded by a high board fence. My cat stayed on my patio but because of the tom he could no longer go out there.

I talked to the neighbors about it and they vaguely said they would try to keep their cat in, but they didn't. I caught the cat on my patio one day and took him back home, presenting him to his owners with a request that he not be on my patio again, whatever that took. They apologized - and nothing changed, the tom invaded every single day and my cat could only go out if I was there. And then only for a short time because the tom did not shoo away, he evaded me and remained in possession of my high-fenced patio.

It was clear to me that nothing was going to change if it were left up to the neighbors. If I sent the cat to the pound, he would be back. So I live-trapped the cat early one Saturday morning and popped him in my cat carrier. Drove him 60 miles to a town in the next county, lied and said he was a local stray, and turned him in. Wrote them a donation check. Did warn the shelter that he was aggressive toward other cats.

Never saw him again. Don't know what became of him. Said nothing to the neighbors, as of course I did not want him back, and my cat was more important to me than were my neighbors.

I don't know what my neighbors thought became of their cat, but they never said anything to me about it. We had never spoken to each other except about the cat. I rather suspect I relieved them of a burden they didn't know what to do about. It was not the nicest cat.

Were I in the country I would do the same thing if I could. I would absolutely consider and perform if necessary the SSS. I would hate doing that, but my animals and my family come first, and they don't have anyone else to protect them.

mustangtrailrider
Apr. 30, 2011, 08:52 PM
Here in the sticks of south cackalacky, we have many hunting dogs run through. If able, they are caught and owners called, sometimes regretfully. Other dogs are taken to animal control. Friendly dogs that belong to neighbors are allowed to go as they please. No problems. We know the dogs.

Troublesome dogs are elimated if at all possible. We have actually had to do so on a number of occassions. Spoke to neighbor a time two when they asked if we had seen "Shotgun"....we said we hadn't seen him in a while, but that he had been helping himself to our chickens. Oh he wouldn't do that! We yes he did. We did say that we would Shoot if we saw them again. Haven't seen dogs here in a while...but we will do so if needed. I have no problem doing so! Neither does DH.

katarine
Apr. 30, 2011, 11:12 PM
I guess I am wondering how many of you are the one shooting the dogs?

By that I mean you, vs a DH or SO?

I think that makes a big difference. I was not brought up to do that kind of thing, but know my brothers and father were the ones to do that kind of business.

Soooo, many say they would or have, but really curious, since many of you are woman, how many have done that yourself...pull the trigger that is, and for that matter dig the hole.

I said it was just that once but whether that's true, welll....

So...umm...yes...and, umm....holes? That's what turkey buzzards are for, circle of life and all that. No holes, ma'am.

OverandOnward
Apr. 30, 2011, 11:59 PM
In the rural area of my youth, women needed to be as able with guns as a man, and most were. And shovels, too. Women stayed closer to home, and for a good part of the day were the sole supervisors of the house and barn area, while the man went out to do ... whatever men do. ;) If hubby was not usually back before dark, the farm critters had to be protected well before then if a marauder attacked in daylight. Daylight predators seemed to be dogs, maybe a cat. Nighttime might be coyotes. Predators could be human, as well, and a woman alone had to have the wherewithal to handle any situation, to live out there.

Stray dogs - many of them dumped on the road near the farm, I'm sad to say - either got along with the existing fauna and got a chance to be re-homed, or they were destructive, and were marched out on a long walk across a short pasture. It would have been nice to be able to explain that to them. Sadly the world is not set up that way.

One did not call on my most rural relatives at night without phoning ahead. They met nighttime strangers with a shotgun. Especially the women at the house alone.

fordtraktor
May. 2, 2011, 09:19 AM
One did not call on my most rural relatives at night without phoning ahead. They met nighttime strangers with a shotgun. Especially the women at the house alone.

Had to laugh -- this is me. Since I was a teen I've slept with a pistol under my mattress, we lived in the middle of nowhere. When my husband is away on business I still put mine there, can't sleep without it.

As to animals, I don't like shooting things but will if I have to. I'm the one that is here during the day so I'm the one that tends to spot the groundhogs, etc. Dogs/cats that aren't worrying livestock or pets don't bother me. I don't bury groundhogs, just let the buzzards enjoy.

I was 5 when my dad shot the dogs killing our chickens, so obviously did not participate in that.

Catersun
May. 2, 2011, 10:49 PM
In the rural area of my youth, women needed to be as able with guns as a man, and most were. And shovels, too. Women stayed closer to home, and for a good part of the day were the sole supervisors of the house and barn area, while the man went out to do ... whatever men do. ;) If hubby was not usually back before dark, the farm critters had to be protected well before then if a marauder attacked in daylight. Daylight predators seemed to be dogs, maybe a cat. Nighttime might be coyotes. Predators could be human, as well, and a woman alone had to have the wherewithal to handle any situation, to live out there.

Stray dogs - many of them dumped on the road near the farm, I'm sad to say - either got along with the existing fauna and got a chance to be re-homed, or they were destructive, and were marched out on a long walk across a short pasture. It would have been nice to be able to explain that to them. Sadly the world is not set up that way.

One did not call on my most rural relatives at night without phoning ahead. They met nighttime strangers with a shotgun. Especially the women at the house alone.


You use the past tense alot ;) It's still that way at my house. ;)

Dun_Horse
May. 3, 2011, 12:23 AM
We are blessed. We only have three neighbors within a mile, and don't often even hear a dog bark, much less see one. Neighbor kid did show up once looking for their dog, though.

However, we did have a stray cat show up. Thought it might be a tom, and I literally walked out the door, rifle in hand, more than once with the intent to shoot it. Wife talked me out of it, and imagine that... Said cat now comes in the house and generally gets along just fine with our other cats! SHE, we guess, was a stray that someone dumped down here around the time we moved in.

karlymacrae
May. 3, 2011, 02:02 AM
This thread has honestly turns my stomach.. I just wrote a huge post and erased it, but all in all a) I'm glad I live in Canada & my dogs can't get out and b) SSSers should invest in a tranq gun. For all you know you're shooting the little girl who left the gate open's best friend.. that sickens me the most.

coloredcowhorse
May. 3, 2011, 02:17 AM
This thread has honestly turns my stomach.. I just wrote a huge post and erased it, but all in all a) I'm glad I live in Canada & my dogs can't get out and b) SSSers should invest in a tranq gun. For all you know you're shooting the little girl who left the gate open's best friend.. that sickens me the most.

Pretty sickening to see a flock of sheep torn to shreds and aborting lambs too.....or a mare loose a foal that you had spent some decent $ on and a year waiting for. Little girls that live where there are livestock will learn soon enough to keep the gate closed...it may be a hard lesson but dogs that get loose do often damage or kill livestock and that is someone's livelihood in some cases. And tranq guns here can ONLY be used by vets/wildlife control officers.

karlymacrae
May. 3, 2011, 03:52 AM
I've thought about this since I posted and I've come to terms with it.. if there was a dog on my property attacking my dogs/barn cats or horses I'd be compelled to shoot it too, as I would a cougar/coyote/etc.

Trakehner
May. 3, 2011, 10:00 AM
Neighbor cat keeps using my flower bed and garden for a litter box...got out the Havahart trap, caught him and covered him with skunk musk...and sent the pussy home. Hope they enjoyed it, I did.

I was in Middleburg VA at a nice barn, neighbors golden loved chasing horses, his owners could care less and said so when we complained. The dog finally chased one horse into another, breaking his neck. We shot the dog and hung him on the fence between the properties and were witnesses when the girl sued the dog's owners for the loss she had.

Trakehner
May. 3, 2011, 10:14 AM
This thread has honestly turns my stomach.. I just wrote a huge post and erased it, but all in all a) I'm glad I live in Canada & my dogs can't get out and b) SSSers should invest in a tranq gun. For all you know you're shooting the little girl who left the gate open's best friend.. that sickens me the most.

Thank you PETA...I loved the emotional "Little girl's bestest friend" You forgot to add, "and she'll cry herself to sleep too!"

I didn't know dogs couldn't get out in Canada, eh? The range of a tranq. gun is very short, the drug is measured out carefully to tranquilize the animal by size and you can do a lot of damage with one (I broke a chimps leg once using one of these)...and what exactly do you do with the dog once you've got him tranquilized? Put an ear tag on him and a tracking device and call Mutual of Omaha "Wild Kingdom"?

You don't leave a loaded gun sitting around, you don't let your dog run loose to kill what it may...both are irresponsble and the innocent suffer needlessly....even in Canada.

Painted Wings
May. 3, 2011, 10:58 AM
Years ago we had a problem with a pack of dogs. They were obviously not pets, just dumped anmials running in a group. They attacked and bit one of my horses in the flank.

We had a friend that was a competitive shooter. Mentioned the problem to him and SSS. Never heard any more about the dogs or saw them.

A friend of mine in the same area had a horse killed by two dogs. Another seriously injured.

It isn't anything to mess with. If the owners can't keep them locked up it's a serious problem. They will not give your livestock a second chance.

eventersmom
May. 3, 2011, 04:10 PM
I live in a rural area and most of our neighbors have livestock, as do we. We also have a dog that will kill smaller livestock and cats, and she will run larger animals (cattle, horses, etc). When we found out that we had a problem dog, we did two things. First, she is penned 24/7. She is in an extremely large kennel, think large zoo exhibit sized kennel, that is mesh on all 4 sides and has a roof. She lives in this kennel unless she is inside with us or we are outside, then we let her hang out with us but only on leash.

The second thing we did was call the neighbors and let them know that we have a problem dog, gave them her description and told them that if she ever did get out and was chasing/killing their livestock, that we understood if they had to shoot her.

We love our dog and are doing everything we can to keep her safe and give her a good life but we are realistic too. If she does get loose, our neighbors will likely shoot her. It would break my heart, but I get it. People have a right to protect their own.

aurora171989
May. 3, 2011, 04:16 PM
Neighbor cat keeps using my flower bed and garden for a litter box...got out the Havahart trap, caught him and covered him with skunk musk...and sent the pussy home. Hope they enjoyed it, I did.



uhhh where'd you get the skunk musk?

AnotherRound
May. 3, 2011, 05:29 PM
This thread has honestly turns my stomach.. I just wrote a huge post and erased it, but all in all a) I'm glad I live in Canada & my dogs can't get out and b) SSSers should invest in a tranq gun. For all you know you're shooting the little girl who left the gate open's best friend.. that sickens me the most.


Until you have been harrassed and your property and animals mutilated you don't know what you are talking about. If you had, you would not be able to say what you just did.

On another note, I just noticed a certain someone from Tennesee is conspicuously absent from this thread. :winkgrin:

relocatedTXjumpr
May. 3, 2011, 05:51 PM
Yep...had a pack of 11 when we first moved to the farm...killed to barn cats and I repeatedly tried to tell the owners...called AC a million times and was finally told they didnt have the resources to catch the dogs and if they were on our property at ALL to shoot them and told me how to dispose of the bodies so they wouldnt smell.

The hard part was catching the dogs ON the property...we both work and were not home during the day and they seemed to come either during the day or late at night.

One day while walking to the mail box I was rushed by 3 of the dogs. I made it back to the house and grabbed my gun, got 2 of them.

We are down to 2 now.

MistyBlue
May. 3, 2011, 06:17 PM
I've thought about this since I posted and I've come to terms with it.. if there was a dog on my property attacking my dogs/barn cats or horses I'd be compelled to shoot it too, as I would a cougar/coyote/etc.


It is a sad thing if someone has to shoot a dog. I've never known anyone to do it in an unfeeling manner.

It's always a tough call to make. If the animal is not vicious/dangerous I tend to use a paintball rifle. I have a 100% repel rate with it so far thank goodness. It has the added benefit of marking the dog, the owner has a hard time convincing themselves the dog never left their property when covered in neon colored paint. :winkgrin:

Trakehner
May. 3, 2011, 09:03 PM
uhhh where'd you get the skunk musk?

Go to a trapping supply store (sometimes they have it at Dicks Sporting Goods.)

http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/hawbakerslongdistancecalllure6001oz.aspx

It's cheap and a wonderful way to get a bit of revenge back on owners of the dog/cat etc. that just won't stay home. We had a terrible barn thief, she stole anything from anyone that wasn't nailed down, she had lots of money, just an "I want it now" attitude...somebody put the musk in a syringe and injected it into her car on a hot day. Phewee!

Nancy!
May. 4, 2011, 01:20 AM
MistyBlue: What kind of paintball rifle do you have? I have been thinking of getting one for years and should probably go and do it. Silly thing is that I'd rather shoot the damn dog owner than the poor dog. :lol:

Nancy!

sourmilknightmares
May. 4, 2011, 12:00 PM
The old coot couldn't chase a box turtle so I just shake my head and pick up the phone....

A little bit unrelated, but that is hilarious! I think I just spilled coffee on myself!

JSwan
May. 4, 2011, 01:33 PM
Canadian dogs kill livestock too. And tranquilizer guns aren't exactly for sale on street corners, and even if they work they take TIME to work. In that time - cute little Fido can rip a sheep's guts out.

Look what some little girl's friendly dog did to these animals:

http://www.icelandicsheepandwool.com/attackedsheeppictures.html

I could show you more photos; including maimed animals - still alive - with their guts hanging out or bones exposed.

I can't believe anyone would attempt to blame the livestock owner for protecting his animals. It is our moral, legal and ethical duty to care for the animals we own or have control over. They depend on US to protect them, feed them, and tend their wounds. Fencing and LGD's don't keep out all predators - indeed - LGD have been killed by predators too!

Accidents happen - even the best dog owner can leave a gate open or have a dog dig out from under a fence or jump over it. When that dog attacks, the livestock owner is left with no choice.

It is a sadness, to be sure. Still - sometimes it must be done.



This thread has honestly turns my stomach.. I just wrote a huge post and erased it, but all in all a) I'm glad I live in Canada & my dogs can't get out and b) SSSers should invest in a tranq gun. For all you know you're shooting the little girl who left the gate open's best friend.. that sickens me the most.

karlymacrae
May. 4, 2011, 02:03 PM
Thank you PETA...I loved the emotional "Little girl's bestest friend"


Oh PLEASE :lol:

I am far from a PETA advocate. I stated my opinion, sorry! Shooting someone's pet and "hanging it on the fence" is not really up my alley.


You forgot to add, "and she'll cry herself to sleep too!"

and she'll cry herself to sleep too!



I didn't know dogs couldn't get out in Canada, eh? The range of a tranq. gun is very short, the drug is measured out carefully to tranquilize the animal by size and you can do a lot of damage with one (I broke a chimps leg once using one of these)...and what exactly do you do with the dog once you've got him tranquilized? Put an ear tag on him and a tracking device and call Mutual of Omaha "Wild Kingdom"?


Sure! Or you can drop it off at AC where the owner will have to pay to get it back (but obviously they don't give a rats a$$ anyways, so in reality it would probably be rehomed or put down). On that note, I know someone is going to come along and say "well what's the difference between shooting it and putting it down!" Not much, I admit, but if you don't have a good shot the dog could run off with a bullet in it's side and develop a nasty infection.


You don't leave a loaded gun sitting around, you don't let your dog run loose to kill what it may...both are irresponsble and the innocent suffer needlessly....even in Canada.

The only reason I made the Canada comment was because gun laws here are VERY different, and I know that if my dog SOMEHOW got out my neighbour wouldn't come waltzing out his back door gun in hand! Don't make me seem ignorant, that I am not.


Until you have been harrassed and your property and animals mutilated you don't know what you are talking about. If you had, you would not be able to say what you just did.


"I've thought about this since I posted and I've come to terms with it.. if there was a dog on my property attacking my dogs/barn cats or horses I'd be compelled to shoot it too, as I would a cougar/coyote/etc."

wendy
May. 4, 2011, 02:55 PM
Or you can drop it off at AC where the owner will have to pay to get it back (but obviously they don't give a rats a$$ anyways, so in reality it would probably be rehomed or put down). On that note, I know someone is going to come along and say "well what's the difference between shooting it and putting it down!"
taking it to AC is far crueler- three or four days of stress and terror then death vs. instant death. We had some serious destruction problems going on with cats and sat around thinking about it- live trap (terror for hours), take to AC, terrified cat sits in cage for three days vs. instant death. Guess which one we picked. Since most irresponsible cat owners don't bother to microchip or ID their wandering cats no way any owner would be identified, and I don't know about your AC pound, but ours doesn't rehome. Owner doesn't show up and bail out within three days, animal is killed. You could of course attempt to get the cat into a no-kill rescue but they are all full.
Trying to capture an aggressive group of wandering dogs without risking life or limb? sorry I'm not even going to try that.


The only reason I made the Canada comment was because gun laws here are VERY different, and I know that if my dog SOMEHOW got out my neighbour wouldn't come waltzing out his back door gun in hand! Don't make me seem ignorant, that I am not.



actually the right to shoot dogs attacking livestock works wonders in my particular area- no one neglectfully lets their dog run loose because they KNOW it won't come back, and troublesome dogs don't cause much trouble before they are dispatched. Friendly dogs who just got lost aren't shot, people try quite hard to find their homes. They only shoot the ones causing problems, and often only decide to shoot them after repeated attacks.

I'm not sure why you think Canadian dog owners are somehow immune from the "let the dog run free in the country" mentality? or that Canadian dogs are somehow mysteriously uninterested in chasing and killing livestock?

tartan
May. 4, 2011, 03:43 PM
The only reason I made the Canada comment was because gun laws here are VERY different, and I know that if my dog SOMEHOW got out my neighbour wouldn't come waltzing out his back door gun in hand! Don't make me seem ignorant, that I am not."

Maybe not your neighbour specifically, but in my neck of the woods, you can bet on it!
We may have stricter laws, but if you follow the third "S" this won't be a problem. ;)

karlymacrae
May. 4, 2011, 06:21 PM
Jeeze, I'm glad that I didn't post what I originally was going to write!

I already stated that I understand "SSS" and why the posters on this thread implement it. I would probably take the same course of action if a dog, or pack of dogs, was attacking my livestock. But there WERE a couple of posts on here that had questions and doubts running through my head (no time to go read through and find them). I also find it appalling that some are talking about shooting dogs in a lighthearted/joking manner. Obviously the third S is best left implemented.

I also understand that nobody wakes up in the morning WANTING to shoot a dog. That's pretty savage. But I don't agree with first thoughts being "shoot it."

Obviously I have my opinions and you all have yours.. although mine appears to be the minority and better left unsaid. Am I sitting here screaming bloody murder because feral dogs are being shot? No. Am I stating my disagreement with some of the stories posted on this thread? Yes.

(Wendy, it's unfortunate that AC doesn't try to rehome pets in your area.)

katarine
May. 4, 2011, 06:29 PM
You washed in and passed judgment on other's opinions, Karly.

They returned and passed judgment on yours.


That's pretty much how it all works.

Even in Canada :)

karlymacrae
May. 4, 2011, 11:01 PM
You washed in and passed judgment on other's opinions, Karly.

They returned and passed judgment on yours.


That's pretty much how it all works.

I didn't intend to come across that way - and I'm sorry if I did - I took other's opinions and experiences and formed my (now changed) opinion around that.. therefore I didn't pass judgement.. however I understand how it could seem that way in my first post



Even in Canada :)

:rolleyes:

katarine
May. 4, 2011, 11:32 PM
Hey baby, you made it an international event, doll, I just noticed. toodles.

alabama
May. 5, 2011, 12:07 AM
So far I've been pretty lucky. Most of the dogs around here are small 15" at most except for the hound that comes around some mornings. I usually just go outside and yell "git" ;) and they run fast and far.

I'm sad to say I think my donk is losing his kill-the-dog instinct. I don't want him to actually kill dogs but running the crap out of them would be fine with me.

I have plenty of guns around the house - three hand guns and one bb gun. If it comes to my horses/cat or a dog, it's going to be bad for the dog. I want to get a paint ball gun because I think that will hurt worse than the bb gun and hopefully be less loud than the bb gun. That thing is LOUD!

Dun_Horse
May. 5, 2011, 12:49 AM
Shelters here generally try to find homes for critters, however the problem is there's so many of them it's difficult. Wife worked at one for a while a couple years ago and in those several months they couldn't GIVE cats away, and I always knew the days when they put dogs down. I even had her bring home a German Shorthair that I'd taken a liking to and found him a new home ourselves.

Plus I would think that a lot of people on here are rural enough that animal control is not close enough to even consider. The nearest town to us that even HAS AC is 20 miles. Matter of fact, my wife's number is the one who the county sheriff has on file to give out to folks who call in with "nuisance" animal problems (skunks, coons, possums, etc). She's gotten several calls in the last several months.

SonnysMom
May. 5, 2011, 11:46 AM
(Wendy, it's unfortunate that AC doesn't try to rehome pets in your area.)
I live roughly near wendy. AC does try to rehome strays but especially in Philadelphia itself there is a lack of shelter funding and space. They just do not have the resources.
Many of the more suburban shelters keep them for much longer than 3 days if they think the animal is adoptable.
I do say that I don't agree with wendy that shipping the animal to a shelter is cruel. I think for some animals it is but the majority seem to cope well. I got one of my dogs from a shelter near Reading PA and he wasn't particulary stressed and had been there about 10 days.

watcher
May. 5, 2011, 12:49 PM
Does anyone know what NY law is regarding dogs that chase livestock? Or where I could look for the relevant law?

Big_Grey_hunter
May. 5, 2011, 02:08 PM
Does anyone know what NY law is regarding dogs that chase livestock? Or where I could look for the relevant law?

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you can shoot dogs chasing livestock. Two dogs were going after the mares a few years back and BO was going to have farm help shoot them. *Conveniently* they found where the dogs lived, but I'm pretty sure they shot them and didn't want all the boarder kids to know. BO wasn't the type to do illegal things, so I'm sure she checked first

coloredcowhorse
May. 5, 2011, 04:47 PM
Does anyone know what NY law is regarding dogs that chase livestock? Or where I could look for the relevant law?

Check with animal control, sheriffs office, DA's office, virtually any attorney in a rural area, law library (usually at the local library or courthouse or both)....may be under livestock law, range law, not sure what you have back there.

Calamber
May. 6, 2011, 10:25 AM
THE TERM "SSS" = I DO NOT BELIEVE THE FIRST "S" HAS TO BE SHOOT..

HOW MANY CAN SHOOT ACCURATELY ?

HOW MANY HAVE GUNS ?

THINK IN TERMS OF DOGS DISAPPEARING .. OUT OF THE AREA

"S" CAN STAND FOR "SHIP-OUT"

MANY OPTIONS HERE ~ IMHO

JUST GET DOGS OUT OF THE AREA ...

Ship out to where? To become someone else's problem or maybe to be gassed in a shelter? Lots of people know how to shoot accurately, I being one of them. I do not shoot randomly but if I had had the chance to shoot the dog/s that were running my beautiful dairy goat to death, I certainly would have. I was so sorry that the animal shelter in my area at the time (Loudoun County at least 8 years ago) decided that a new owner should get two adult huskies adopted out to him. They were both euthanized after that incident, both had already gotten out once and decimated my chicken flock, including a brave little hen protecting her tiny chicks and 25 of another neighbors. It has only gotten worse with the economy, particularly in either rural or inner city shelters. I love dogs and I have been a rescuer still I would shoot under the right circumstances.

danceronice
May. 6, 2011, 11:19 AM
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you can shoot dogs chasing livestock. Two dogs were going after the mares a few years back and BO was going to have farm help shoot them. *Conveniently* they found where the dogs lived, but I'm pretty sure they shot them and didn't want all the boarder kids to know. BO wasn't the type to do illegal things, so I'm sure she checked first

In most states you can (within reason, ie LIVESTOCK outside city limits, not stray dogs in your suburban backyard). Here it's also legal or at least tolerated to shoot dogs who are harassing game animals like deer, though theoretically you're supposed to call the DNR and have them do it. Generally in those cases DNR/AC gives the one doing the shooting the benefit of the doubt.