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View Full Version : My entire chicken flock wiped out(neighbors again) update and it could be bad.post 99



fivehorses
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:59 AM
My beautiful, friendly best ever dozen hens were slaughtered by the neighbors dogs, although I cannot prove it.

Some may remember the issues with the neighbors and noise and paint ball guns with the horses last fall.

A couple of weeks ago, I asked him to keep his 4 dogs at home, since they seem to be up at my house often, like in 3-4 times a day. These are not friendly dogs. Now that the snow is gone, its about 300' from my barn to their house.
He told me to put up a better fence! My fence keeps my horses in, my lone dog does not wander. This is not a state where I am responsible for keeping animals out, plus we have a leash law.

Ok, last week...come home after being gone a few hours, around dusk, and his dogs come down the drive from my barn, barking at me, keeping me in my car. No owner call for them. My drive is visible to them.

3 days later(Sunday night), I had to go to a fund raiser, left around 6 and home at 7:30 to find a line of dead chickens from their property to my barnyard. It was a sport kill, and around here, it is too early for the foxes to have their kits hunting yet(we don't have that issue till late may). It was not in my experience a wild animal killing.
I am livid.
All this week, their dogs have been in and none of us have seen them. Last night, one of the kids yelled to another kid going into the house, "Don't let the dogs out, they were bad".

I have called ACO, but there isn't anything they can do without proof. They agreed it was not likely a fox, coyote(only chicken predators we have around here) would take out a dozen chickens and leave them. You could see the bite marks on them.
This was a wonderful flock I got last year, and were handled by the two boys who work for me, so they were super friendly, laid their eggs in their boxes, and each night I collected about 10 eggs. I am heart broken, and I have had chickens for 40 years, and lost many to a fox. But this was a waste, plus to allow your dogs to cause that kind of havoc makes me wonder how sicko the parents are. Plus, they were really nice chickens, and I am fond of their eggs, but never attached to my hens, but this group was very special.

The cops are sympathetic, but tell me I need to document..which I think is a waste of energy but they suggested a camera since it records, and then I present them with the information...less negative expenditure of energy.

Now, I am looking into cameras, so if anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
I need cameras that will record, as well as not needing to be hooked up to electricity.

My property surrounds their 1/2 acre, and I have a 5 acre field there. At this time, I am bringing horses into their stalls when no one is on farm. One side of the property I can see what is going on, but the far side, I cannot see what is happening in my field..which makes me nervous. Some may remember, last year the kids built a tree fort in my lower field and were scaring the horses when they were up in it. Yes, as I write this, I think, this is a sicko family.

I am nervous about him shooting or harming my horses. He already drove past one of my help last week who was out walking my pony, and her herdmate was whinnying for her. It is obnoxious, I agree, and it only lasts for 1-2 minutes. The horse is my coming 3 year old and whinnies if anyone is taken away. I want him to learn that his herdmates leave and get over it.
The neighbor drove by my help, screamed at her and turned around and went back home. I guess whinnying bothers him, but his dogs can bark for hours at a time and that is ok.

Soooo, this is not a good situation at all.
Unfortunately, I have learned, unless you can prove it, not much the law can do. Plus, even if you do...not so sure what good that will do. How many of us have seen abusers get a slap.

Ack, looking for some commiseration, vent and ideas on cameras that dvr and run on batteries.

This is really a very bad situation, and I am quite afraid, I or mine may be the ones to be harmed, well, already my hens are now gone, so they have demonstrated to me their ability to do harm.

Jumpin_Horses
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:07 AM
*** SSS ***

ETA - we have installed security cameras. it is actually very easy to do and not that expensive. I wish you luck. I also do NOT like bad neighbors

SGray
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:14 AM
game camera

CatOnLap
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:16 AM
I sympathize with your loss. Forty Layers! Knowing how expensive it is to fence properly, there is little you can do except surveillance and trapping. I would probably buy/rent a live coyote trap from somewhere and start trapping the dogs and sending them off to the local pound every time I caught one. Surely the dogs have obvious points of entry to your property? Put the traps there, baited well with 3 day old steaks or something, and chained and locked to your fence posts.

Bluey
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:19 AM
Why not confine your chickens where nothing may harm them, fox or neighbor's dogs?:confused:

Alagirl
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:19 AM
SSS

the dogs will go away after that...

I feel for you and I do have to agree, that that was dogs killing your chickens.

Game camera, and while it is not you obligation to fence them out, for my peace of mind, I'd put the nastiest thorn shrubs around their little piece of heaven, no dog would ever cross it.

(don't they make skunk stink you can apply to the dogs...I am sure somebody can come up with a way to apply it long distance!)

Zu Zu
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:22 AM
*** SSS ***

ETA - we have installed security cameras. it is actually very easy to do and not that expensive. I wish you luck. I also do NOT like bad neighbors

THIS !

HUGS and GOOD LUCK ~~~

A TERRIBLE PLACE TO BE IN ~

birdsong
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:24 AM
I agree with you...retaliation from them is always a possibility.

Game cameras will do the trick for providing proof, but would that make them change their ways?

Perhaps the better fence might be the best idea...what about a low string of electric if you can't re-fence with "no-climb".

Zarafia
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:25 AM
That is a tough situation you are in.
Normally I'd say that at this point you should shoot the dogs. Find out if you have the right to do so WHILE THEY ARE ON YOUR PROPERTY endangering your livestock. I'll bet that you do. But I can see why you would hesitate to do so.
I feel really bad for you, and not to add more to your already full plate, but I would worry about a dogpack like that going after the horses too (nevermind children). Of course after the first human attack law enforcement will do something. I just pray that it doesn't come to that for you guys.

Zarafia
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:28 AM
Oh yeah, BTW, you can get fake cameras that look just like the real thing, even have a flashing red light on them from a AA battery. Posting those and some signs saying "You are being recorded" might make the neighbor be more careful and cost you less than the real thing.
Of course they wont help you prove your case.

MistyBlue
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:34 AM
Game cameras, look for those. Motion activated, so not running down batteries too fast.

Also, do look into getting a large live trap. Trap the dogs. There's your proof that they're on your property at least. And document each and ever trapping...make sure your digital camera's date stamp is correct and log every single time a dog is caught by photographing with date stamp and then keeping a written log. Call each trapping in, reporting trespassing dog. Then bring dog to pound or call animal control for them to come get the dog. They might return to the neighbor immediately, but at least there's third party legal proof of the dog's trespass and capture.

Jumpin_Horses
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:41 AM
were I live, EVERYBODY knows that their dog WILL come up missing (permenantly) one day, if the owners behaved like that. unwritten law. People around here are very serious about it, and they have no mercy. Its a huge "dairy" area. funny we just dont have a "dog" problem around here.... :lol: now ferel cats! another story, grrr!

Diamondindykin
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:41 AM
I would grab the dogs when they came on my property and take them to the pound. They will get a fine and I am sure if they get hit in the wallet that they will be a little better at keeping them home.

RougeEmpire
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:58 AM
I would grab the dogs when they came on my property and take them to the pound. They will get a fine and I am sure if they get hit in the wallet that they will be a little better at keeping them home.

This. IF you don't want to SSS. When you find their dogs on your property get a line on them. Put them in the truck and dump them at the pound.

jconnors
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:04 PM
I would invest in a motion camera for game animals. They can record video or take stills depending on how much you want to spend. Good luck...

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:07 PM
Check the actual law in your area (and no, local cops are not always a good source for this info). Here, property owners may shoot dogs damaging livestock of any kind (and chickens are included)...period. If you don't want to shoot a dog but can prove (as in call the sheriff out BEFORE removing dead birds) that there was a loss of stock or injury to stock (you can take to a vet) the dog owner has 3 days to pay the full amount of the damage. If he fails to do so there are continuing deadlines and each one not met doubles the previous value of the stock/damage claim. Had a neighbor whose GSD was kept outside (daughter was allergic) and came through stock fence, jumped/climbed over 6 foot chicken wire (on 2 x 4 framing) fence around chicken coop/pen and killed about half my flock. I didn't know the rules at that time but found them out quickly. A week later he did the same (and blessings....it had snowed so there were prints from his house!) but this time I caught him, hen in mouth, as he tried to climb back out and got a foot hung up in the chicken wire. Put him on a chain, called sheriff and they came out, photos taken of dog, prints and all the dead chickens (polaroids). Deputy and I went to the neighbors and got the wife to answer the door. Got the "what do you want us to do? He has to stay outside because of Sweeties allergies and it is just too much work to keep him on a chain, it tears up our yard and besides, Sweetie LOOOVES him". WTF? Sheriff asks me for value per bird....I'd had some layers and some young roosters headed to freezer so gave him a price on each.....came to $150. Deputy told her that it had to be paid in 72 hours or would double. 3 days...no payment. I called deputy and he said "let it ride...they'll find out". Well, they did.... they submitted it to their insurance company for payment and it took almost a month. The bill by that point was $2400. You never heard such screaming and hollering. Most expensive chickens I ever owned.

Chardavej
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:07 PM
I like the idea if there is a skunk or stinky spray you can spray on them from a distance. A few times of that and going back in the house, they wont be let out anymore.

Jumpin_Horses
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:19 PM
COOL!


Check the actual law in your area (and no, local cops are not always a good source for this info). Here, property owners may shoot dogs damaging livestock of any kind (and chickens are included)...period. If you don't want to shoot a dog but can prove (as in call the sheriff out BEFORE removing dead birds) that there was a loss of stock or injury to stock (you can take to a vet) the dog owner has 3 days to pay the full amount of the damage. If he fails to do so there are continuing deadlines and each one not met doubles the previous value of the stock/damage claim. Had a neighbor whose GSD was kept outside (daughter was allergic) and came through stock fence, jumped/climbed over 6 foot chicken wire (on 2 x 4 framing) fence around chicken coop/pen and killed about half my flock. I didn't know the rules at that time but found them out quickly. A week later he did the same (and blessings....it had snowed so there were prints from his house!) but this time I caught him, hen in mouth, as he tried to climb back out and got a foot hung up in the chicken wire. Put him on a chain, called sheriff and they came out, photos taken of dog, prints and all the dead chickens (polaroids). Deputy and I went to the neighbors and got the wife to answer the door. Got the "what do you want us to do? He has to stay outside because of Sweeties allergies and it is just too much work to keep him on a chain, it tears up our yard and besides, Sweetie LOOOVES him". WTF? Sheriff asks me for value per bird....I'd had some layers and some young roosters headed to freezer so gave him a price on each.....came to $150. Deputy told her that it had to be paid in 72 hours or would double. 3 days...no payment. I called deputy and he said "let it ride...they'll find out". Well, they did.... they submitted it to their insurance company for payment and it took almost a month. The bill by that point was $2400. You never heard such screaming and hollering. Most expensive chickens I ever owned.

Donkaloosa
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:19 PM
SSS. This is truly a case where it's appropriate.

Daydream Believer
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
I'm very sorry about your hens. Poor chooks. :-( I would be heartbroken also. I have to echo Bluey's comment a bit. You really should consider confinement. I have found the electric poultry netting to stop ALL land based predators but still allows them to free range a good bit. I managed to stop hawk attacks by a scare owl and hanging cds to blow and flash in the wind/light.

Ask Animal control to borrow a humane trap. When you catch a dog on your farm, call them and they will come, document it and take it away. That is the best legal way to get your neighbors to be responsible. When they start having AC visits and fines, that might get their attention.

I hate people who let dogs just run loose. I had a similar situation last fall when what I believe were dogs dug under a wall into a chicken coop and killed a bunch of my little broilers. I had a conversation with my neighbor (who owns the dogs) as well as AC and we've not had another problem. I kept a loaded 22 rifle in my kitchen and I was prepared to shoot. We had a trap set up but all we caught was a possum and a barn cat. I'm pretty sure it was my neighbor's loose dogs.

I told her point blank that I would shoot to kill if I saw them again over here and she believed me. She's finally kept them confined. They were a major nuisance getting into people's trash and out on the road so much that I'm surprised no one else shot them. Here in the south, that is what you can expect to happen to your dog if it becomes a nuisance.

Threebars
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:32 PM
My concern about the dogs is now that they've attacked the chickens, will they become bolder, and go after your other livestock? Or worse....

:(

MarionHorse
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:35 PM
Check the actual law in your area (and no, local cops are not always a good source for this info). Here, property owners may shoot dogs damaging livestock of any kind (and chickens are included)...period. If you don't want to shoot a dog but can prove (as in call the sheriff out BEFORE removing dead birds) that there was a loss of stock or injury to stock (you can take to a vet) the dog owner has 3 days to pay the full amount of the damage. If he fails to do so there are continuing deadlines and each one not met doubles the previous value of the stock/damage claim.

Very true. Here in Oregon, I believe it is law as well that you can shoot a dog coming on your property harassing your livestock. If you don't want to kill them, take photos/video of them harassing your livestock and call the sheriff. Personally, there is an extreme over-population of dogs in this world, and I wouldn't mind doing away with 2 or 3 that have malicious intent.

Just my $0.02. If the owner likes their dogs living, keep them off my property and away from my animals. We had a lovely neighbour on one farm we lived on.. friendly as can be, would offer to come spray our pasture for weeds/mow it before we had horses on it/etc. However, he had the nastiest, rudest dog I've ever seen. Electric fence didn't keep it from chasing our horses up and down the 2 acre pasture for hours before we noticed or it got tired. It would grab onto our horses tails and go along for the ride. We eventually got a mini donkey jack who would snake the dog off if it could, but the problem never really stopped until we moved. Only reason my dad didn't shoot the dog was because our neighbour was a nice gentleman with good intentions.

witherbee
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:37 PM
For those telling her to catch the dogs and transport them, did you notice where she said they are not friendly and had her trapped in her car on her own property? Yes, she could trap them, but she would need AC to come get them.

fivehorses, this is a terrible situation because of the fear of retaliation. They do not sound like normal people at all. Not sure if it's feasible for you to put an electric fence or no-climb in (although they could dig or climb the no-climb). My heart goes out to you - I am very attached to my roosters and ended up having to build them a big coop due to eagle attacks.

Zu Zu
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:42 PM
My concern about the dogs is now that they've attacked the chickens, will they become bolder, and go after your other livestock? Or worse....

:(
Once the dogs think there is
"FUN" over there and have now chased and killed ~ they will be waiting to return.
Neighbor who is "nasty" will only get nastier IMHO if you trap and turn in his dogs and he suffers a fine...:eek: TRAP then SSS
OP has livestock and property ~
One can simply not be "on guard" at all times
and with a delusional neighbor who is angry:mad: WOW what a MIX !!!:eek:
Be smart ~ be safe ~ Trap then SSS
Tell no one ... dogs appear
dogs disappear ...

And Yes, chicken need a safe confinement "home" area in case of predators ... canine, or human...

Good Luck & so sorry this has happened ~

tarynls
Apr. 21, 2011, 12:58 PM
My sympathies, what a horrible thing to come home to.

If you decide to look into the game cameras, Cabelas has some nice ones (infrered too, so you'll get a good image at night) for not a lot of $$. There was a thread about it http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260914&highlight=game+camera&page=2

Good info from Frank B. 1st post on page 2 of the thread.

Best of luck, my heart goes out to you.

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 01:11 PM
Geesh. This is horrible and I sympathize. It looks like you are in a bad spot for having nasty neighbors. Honestly if I were you, I would not attempt anything that might allow your neighbors to point their fingers at you for their troubles because the next thing you know, they are blaming you and retaliate. Those people cannot be reasoned.

About a year ago my neighbor's blood hound would come and snatch my guineas. I can't shoot and I didn't have time to wait for them to come to do the damage. I didn't want animal control involved either because, honestly, unless animal control can put the nasty owners out permanently, it's not worth my future risk.

If I knew how to shoot and had time to wait for the dogs, I would simply shoot the dogs and keep my mouth shut.

What I did do was get a Maremma. Since then, I have NEVER seen the blood hound in my property. It is really funny, because my Maremma would allow another neighbor's little toy dogs to come and play, but plain mean to the blood hound. He seems to know what is nice and what is not.

Jumpin_Horses
Apr. 21, 2011, 01:15 PM
wow, I didnt know what a Maremma was, so I googled it.

I though you may have meant "nasty mare type horse" :lol:

but those are BEAUTIFUL dogs! kind of like a GP?

thanks

arabiansrock
Apr. 21, 2011, 01:34 PM
Sorry I have to ask, what is SSS?

To the OP, no advice but I feel your frustration. I would be livid also. Good luck, there seem to be many good ideas here. You might need a VERY large dog yourself though to protect you from retaliation.

SGray
Apr. 21, 2011, 01:43 PM
Shoot
Shovel (dispose of the body)
Shut up

Phaxxton
Apr. 21, 2011, 01:44 PM
Sorry I have to ask, what is SSS?

Shoot. Shovel. Shut up.

GoForAGallop
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:04 PM
SSS

the dogs will go away after that...

I feel for you and I do have to agree, that that was dogs killing your chickens.

Game camera, and while it is not you obligation to fence them out, for my peace of mind, I'd put the nastiest thorn shrubs around their little piece of heaven, no dog would ever cross it.

(don't they make skunk stink you can apply to the dogs...I am sure somebody can come up with a way to apply it long distance!)


Well, maybe THOSE specific dogs will go away....but a few more will be along to replace them shortly. Honestly, I think the SSS route is the worst way to go...it's going to encourage retaliation, because let's face it, they're going to know who made their dogs go poof.

Personally, I think getting a live trap and then bugging the hell out of AC is going to be the best way to go. The owners are going to start getting fined (which will hit where it hurts, but not make them get angry the way killing loved pets does) and the dogs may just eventually be taken away. You can call AC for something as simple as a loose dog, nevermind these which appear to be dangerous. They'll come scoop the dog up, and either talk to the owner immediately or make them come to the pound and pay bail.

EqTrainer
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:36 PM
I have much sympathy for you but seriously... You need to move. Nothing will change harm done to your animals by these people... You will regret not simply leaving...

As far as SSS, this is why we (meaning, the majority of the rural south) dont complain about each others dogs... You dont want to be the one who drew attention to yourself before disposing of them. Its one of those unpleasant, unsaid things... Too late for you, since your neighbor knows how you feel.

Just go before something else bad happens.

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:41 PM
Well, maybe THOSE specific dogs will go away....but a few more will be along to replace them shortly. Honestly, I think the SSS route is the worst way to go...it's going to encourage retaliation, because let's face it, they're going to know who made their dogs go poof.

Personally, I think getting a live trap and then bugging the hell out of AC is going to be the best way to go. The owners are going to start getting fined (which will hit where it hurts, but not make them get angry the way killing loved pets does) and the dogs may just eventually be taken away. You can call AC for something as simple as a loose dog, nevermind these which appear to be dangerous. They'll come scoop the dog up, and either talk to the owner immediately or make them come to the pound and pay bail.

That is why you don't run to AC, And then shoot them. The moment you run to AC, you get big fat label on your forehead that say you are responsible for whatever happening to their animals. If you want to shoot them, you shoot, and you shut up.

Remember, these are not folks you can reason with. They are scumbags, and need to be dealt with accordingly. I guarantee you, reporting them to AC is enough to make them angry, probably more angry than if their dogs get shot somewhere.

And what make you believe these dogs are "loved pets"? If they were really that concerned about their dogs, they would not have allowed them to roam free to butcher others' animals.

Of course another option is to capture them, and ship them somewhere under the table. But if you do that, and they go around to kill the unsuspected next owners' neighbors' pets, can you live with that conscience?

katarine
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:42 PM
You can get game cameras, mine's a Bushnell that records video or stills (you choose) and it has an infrared flash so animals won't notice it. People might, though...I got some video of some kids poaching on my land and I think they were so stunned at seeing a camera (one's headlamp 'caught' the reflection of the lens, and they saw the camera), they forgot to steal it ;) the looks on their faces, priceless. So be wary of how much you want to invest, if you think the kids will simply steal them. You can also up the ante with a camera like a mare-stare set up that allows you to maybe monitor your driveway or road frontage while you're away.

Going forward, I'd fence the dogs out of wherever I want my chickens to live: we lost ours to coons years ago and I've just not restocked/reworked the fencing to replace them.

As for the dogs coming onto your place and approaching you: Pepper or skunk spray. Those dogs would go home NASTY smelling.

We've done the SSS but that was years ago, dealing with lax, but not troubled, neighbors. I didn't fear retribution, which it sounds like you might.

5
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:51 PM
Coyote traps and S.S.S.U.

jherold
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:53 PM
In your situation, you are either going to have to move or fence the property. I've used cheap welded field fencing on t-posts. It won't be pretty, but it will likely keep the dogs out. Any futher legal action will just escalate the situation. You can shoot these dogs, but they will just get more. You don't want to get in a pissing match with crazy people. It never ends well.

Obi
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:56 PM
I brought my neighbors dog to the pound after the 3rd time he got loose and killed a few chickens. He was kept on a chain 24/7 with little shelter from sun or cold. Animal control sucks in this area and my complaints were not addressed. I was told to keep my chickens safely in a small cage by AC. I have 10 acres and its my responsibiliyt to cage my animals from a neigbors dog that often gets off his chain? WTF?

I felt so bad about bringing the dog to the pound b-cuz it had no social skills and was very hyper. No record of shots or heartworm either. But an humane end to his life was better than watching my chickens die and this poor dog bake in the Southern summer sun.

Alagirl
Apr. 21, 2011, 02:58 PM
Well, maybe THOSE specific dogs will go away....but a few more will be along to replace them shortly. Honestly, I think the SSS route is the worst way to go...it's going to encourage retaliation, because let's face it, they're going to know who made their dogs go poof.


LOL, re-read...:lol:

SSS....the dogs will go away afterwards...

Which is of course not meant literally.

I think 'good fences make for good neighbors' is a long honored tradition.

1/2 acre is not too much to fence out.

Alagirl
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:00 PM
I would grab the dogs when they came on my property and take them to the pound. They will get a fine and I am sure if they get hit in the wallet that they will be a little better at keeping them home.

The dogs are aggressive tho....the only time I'd grab them would be to pull them out from under the truck...

Fairview Horse Center
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:08 PM
Work with Marestare to put an internet camera outside. ;) I think its pretty cheap, like $15 a month? for them to host streaming video. At first, make it public, and give your neighbors a link, when you tell them that dogs killed all of your chickens, so they know you are not kidding, and let them know that your property will be watched and recorded. :lol: Tell them you will be shortly changing the security to private, so you will be controlling who can see what happens on your property.

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:12 PM
Or you could take my techique of becoming known as the "crazy neighbor" so everyone leaves you alone.... I open carry More often than not.. and if you can't see it I'm usually concealed carrying a firearm.... anytime I hear a ruckus outside I come out with the shotgun. When we first moved in the neighbors father used to come out and swear and yell at us... cops couldn't do anything about him... DH spoke to his son whom he lives with, and they've been plenty polite and respectful since we started to open carry around the farm.

bearing in mind that I did fence the entire perimeter of our land with no climb topped with electric and we are gated... if something comes in... it is up to no good and will not be tolerated.

I'm plotting to add a HOT predator wire on the outside of my fence as we are having some issues with the local coyotes according to DNR.

BTW- no one can tell if the weapon is loaded or not.... if you are squeamish of firearms, the gun doens't have to be loaded to give the APPEARANCE that you mean business. and really... it shouldn't have to be... but someday... if those dogs come over and corner you... a loaded gun will be your best friend.

RacetrackReject
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:18 PM
I have a little problem with the SSS idea in this case because the dogs are just being dogs, and I have a hard time justifying why should they be punished for their owner's stupidity. I would vote for trapping and taking to the pound for that reason.

My neighbor's dogs had just started coming back over when I caught one as he was about to go into my chicken pen. I brought my trusty airsoft gun out and started shooting. It works as well on the dogs as it does the neighbor's chickens =). If the dogs start to come back again, I will use paintballs, bright pink or lime green I'm thinking. Either that or bait them into going into the pasture with my older TB. He hates dogs and will scare the crap out of them. He is the reason none of the other neighbor's dogs will come onto my property. The dogs that were showing up recently are new.

Have you thought about maybe getting a donkey?

5
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:22 PM
You could also ask the breeders of LGD if they know of any working dogs who because of age have to move down from guarding hypothetically 1000 sheep flock on 6000 acres against Canadian grizzlies to say hypothetically 30 head of 'poultry' on 5 acres against neighbor dogs.

The neighbor dogs may find themselves very content to stay on their property with such a retiree around.

Arizona DQ
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:29 PM
[QUOTE=MarionHorse;5559658]. Personally, there is an extreme over-population of dogs in this world, and I wouldn't mind doing away with 2 or 3 that have malicious intent.
QUOTE]

WRONG! There is an extreme overpopulation of ignorant people and irresponsible owners. :mad:

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:38 PM
I have a little problem with the SSS idea in this case because the dogs are just being dogs, and I have a hard time justifying why should they be punished for their owner's stupidity. I would vote for trapping and taking to the pound for that reason.

Think of this way, when one pack of dogs goes to raid another pack of dogs, or invade their territory, will the defending pack says, "geesh, you are just acting like dogs, so we will shake hands and live peacefully together?"

They will not hesitate to destroy their enemies, either side.

There is a lot to be learnt from Mother Nature I think.

Of course I think the best option is to have some kind of guarding animal, like a LGD so we as humans are spared of this gross business of defending our own territory (let their own species do the dirty deed sort of speak:D). I got one and am immensely pleased with it, but LGD has their own challenge and may not be suitable for every home.

cloudyandcallie
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:39 PM
Brickhousesecurity.com

Buy your spy equiment there. Great stuff. One of the newest things is a camera that looks like a plug in adapter. :cool:

I told Hampton Bay on her thread about all your problems in New Hampshire. She has the problems in Florida. Is there any state where neighbors aren't dangerous? (In town in Atlanta we had people who shot and killed their neighbors over blowing leaves in each other's yards.)

As the poet said "good fences make good neighbors."

MarionHorse
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=MarionHorse;5559658]. Personally, there is an extreme over-population of dogs in this world, and I wouldn't mind doing away with 2 or 3 that have malicious intent.
QUOTE]

WRONG! There is an extreme overpopulation of ignorant people and irresponsible owners. :mad:

Correct, resulting in too many dogs. It's not their fault, but there are too many of them.

Of course if you use my logic, murdering people would be okay, too.

Maybe I'll just shut up now :lol:


(Disclaimer: joking.. only joking)

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:46 PM
Think of this way, when one pack of dogs goes to raid another pack of dogs, or invade their territory, will the defending pack says, "geesh, you are just acting like dogs, so we will shake hands and live peacefully together?"

They will not hesitate to destroy their enemies, either side.

There is a lot to be learnt from Mother Nature I think.

Of course I think the best option is to have some kind of guarding animal, like a LGD so we as humans are spared of this gross business of defending our own territory (let their own species do the dirty deed sort of speak:D). I got one and am immensely pleased with it, but LGD has their own challenge and may not be suitable for every home.


Hey Gloria- I remember your thread when ever that was with your guineas... may I ask where you got your "retired" lgd? That is an option I would like to look into. I've been researchin lgd's for about a year now, and I know that a young dog is not going to be happy here or am I'm going to be happy with a young dog... but an older dog that wants a cushy retirement gig... THAT could work.

cloudyandcallie
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:49 PM
[quote=MarionHorse;5559658]. Personally, there is an extreme over-population of dogs in this world, and I wouldn't mind doing away with 2 or 3 that have malicious intent.
QUOTE]

WRONG! There is an extreme overpopulation of ignorant people and irresponsible owners. :mad:

Yes but it is harder to avoid being arrested if you get rid of all the overpopulation of these pests.

RacetrackReject
Apr. 21, 2011, 03:52 PM
Think of this way, when one pack of dogs goes to raid another pack of dogs, or invade their territory, will the defending pack says, "geesh, you are just acting like dogs, so we will shake hands and live peacefully together?"

They will not hesitate to destroy their enemies, either side.

There is a lot to be learnt from Mother Nature I think.



Yes, but we are human beings, not dogs. If you were a dog and in heat, every male in the county would jump you, but since we aren't dogs, we are expected to behave better.

If you buy a dog to protect your flock and they tear into another dog trying to take/kill your livestock, then that is another matter. The protector dog does give warning though and their intent is known ahead of time.

deckchick
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:03 PM
You could also ask the breeders of LGD if they know of any working dogs who because of age have to move down from guarding hypothetically 1000 sheep flock on 6000 acres against Canadian grizzlies to say hypothetically 30 head of 'poultry' on 5 acres against neighbor dogs.

The neighbor dogs may find themselves very content to stay on their property with such a retiree around.

Haha! :lol::lol: You forgot to state while living in igloos! :lol::lol:

I had a Maremma, she was awesome. I gave her to my neighbour with 300 sheep and 100 goats when I had to downsize my goat herd. I hated to do it, but she was a real working dog and was very sad without her goats.

My 2 Aussies and my mini donkey keep my remaining critters safe. If you can't do that, I recommend electric fence with a really nice jolt.

Blue Yonder
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:17 PM
Any chance you could add a guard donkey? With the added benefit of a loud bray just for your sweet neighbors, in addition to stomping bad dogs?

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:27 PM
Hey Gloria- I remember your thread when ever that was with your guineas... may I ask where you got your "retired" lgd? That is an option I would like to look into. I've been researchin lgd's for about a year now, and I know that a young dog is not going to be happy here or am I'm going to be happy with a young dog... but an older dog that wants a cushy retirement gig... THAT could work.

Well, my Appa isn't a "retired" dog. We got him as a pup from Burks Farm in Fordland, Missouri. It's hard to imagine him being a pup though... such a lazy bum who just loves to lounge around... until some intruders come along and he comes alive all the sudden. lol.

Originally we were looking for a Great P. but they seem more suited for ranches where they could guard thousands of acres. And then we checked into Akbash but after talking to one local breeder, we decided it was just too dog aggressive. According to her, Akbash did not bother to bark; it simply moved in to kill.. which is good in certain circumstances but we do have some nice neighboring dogs that we don't want it to just maul over. Some COTHer suggested a Maremma and after talking to the breeder Debbie, we decided that would be our best bet, and he was and still IS.:)

Let me know if you want Debbie' contact and I will send it over. They might know some "retired" maremmas.

Trevelyan96
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:32 PM
The only way to handle crazy, irresponsible neighbors is to make it perfectly clear that if you decide to wage war, you won't give up until they're dead or gone. You have to become your crazy neighbors worst nightmare!

It sounds horrible, but its the truth. We had a crazy in our area, threatened and followed the kids around, etc. He threatened one girl jogging with a gun because she didn't know that was 'his private' road. I sent the cops there twice a week. I didn't hesitate to embellish every little complaint I could think of. If the kids said they saw him at the bus stop, I'd call the cops and say he was stalking my daughter. Since the general public saw me as the rational, responsible one, no one ever questioned whether or not I had 'legitimate' complaints.

Guy finally moved.

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:37 PM
Yes, but we are human beings, not dogs. If you were a dog and in heat, every male in the county would jump you, but since we aren't dogs, we are expected to behave better.

If you buy a dog to protect your flock and they tear into another dog trying to take/kill your livestock, then that is another matter. The protector dog does give warning though and their intent is known ahead of time.

Geesh, it was an example. The point is, they are dogs, so the only fair thing to them is to treat them as such. Don't apply human psychologies on them.

Weird, so it is OK if the dogs kill the inading dogs, but not if humans kill the invading dogs?Ummm

And nobody suggest OP to barge into their neighbors to kill the dogs. All is suggested is if the dogs come to attack, OP has every right to kill, because, darling, those dogs aren't negotiating with you like politicians are.

katarine
Apr. 21, 2011, 04:51 PM
We had a funny interaction with my lax but not crazy neighbors. Their pack of motley dogs got our Lab down and hurt her. When presented with the bill, they paid it, and told my DH, just shoot 'em if they come back.

If that's how they feel, so be it.

RacetrackReject
Apr. 21, 2011, 05:46 PM
Weird, so it is OK if the dogs kill the inading dogs, but not if humans kill the invading dogs?Ummm



Bless your heart "darling".

Most dogs I have seen that know they do not belong on a property usually will not cross the property line with another dog protecting it. No dog in my neighborhood will step on my property when my dogs are loose. They will run to the edge and bark/growl like they are going to come across, but they won't. When my dogs are up, is when they come over. If a dog violates that rule, then my dogs would give chase and if the invader did not retreat, then yes, he would get his ass kicked until he did retreat, but most likely not killed. The point I was making to your previous post is that most other dogs typically would not just run up and kill an intruder without any sort of warning. I'm pretty sure that when you shoot a dog you don't announce it ahead of time or give warning because then the dog would run and you would lose the chance for you to kill it. There is a difference and I'm not anthromorphisizing (try finding that in the dictionary) anything.

Again, if an animal kills an animal, they are animals. We are humans, we should do better.

Another example. Say you have an unruly horse and you walk it into a crowd of people. The horse kicks someone and you are made to euthanize your horse. Now was it the horse's fault that you drug him into a crowd of people when he was upset to begin with?

Anyway, I merely stated my opinion and why I felt that way. You don't have to agree, but I'm no more wrong for having that opinion than you are for having yours. I wasn't arguing with your opinion, just your reasoning behind it. I also never said she didn't have the right, because legally, she does. I just stated for me it does not seem right to punish an animal for it's owner's stupidity.


“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi

Gloria
Apr. 21, 2011, 06:31 PM
Of course if I walk a horse to a crowd, it gets scared and kicks someone, "I" should be shot, not the horse, because it is My stupidity for not preparing my horse; it's not the horse's fault. In this case, the horse is defending itself, not attacking.

On the other hand, if my horse goes out to the crowd, "intentionally" kicks someone because it means to cause harm, yes, "I", again, should be shot for being irresponsible, but my horse should be shot too.

In the wild, a rogue attacking a herd of horses WILL be killed by the band stallion (and there are such rogues in the wild, though not as prevalent as in human world due to humans incorrectly applying humans psychologies on animals). I, as protector of my herd, WILL kill to protect.

If my horse, or dog, or cat, whatever, go to my neighbor, kill their animals, "I" should be responsible for causing harms(but I bet OP's neighbor won't feel the same way), but my animals should know better not to invade other's territory. That is what nature tells them.

Nature tells all creatures if they invade, they need to prepare to lose their own lives. Simple as that.

We are not talking about animals simply mosey over somewhere and get shot without cause. They weren't coming over to make friends and get errorneously shot. We are talking about animals who are in "raiding" mode, who "kill".

There is a huge difference here.

By the way, don't get too put out by my using "darling" in a not very nice way. You were the one using "in heat", and "jump" in your prior post. It was rathre rancid if I may say.

asb_own_me
Apr. 21, 2011, 06:49 PM
If there's a dog, or dogs, stupid enough to come into one of our pastures, it needs to be shot. Would be much more humane than what Chuck and Larry (the mini donks) would do to it ;) The neighbor's dog is terrified of Chuck and Larry. The new neighbor's two dumb Goldens slipped their tie-outs last month and stopped by. One "HEEEEEE" from Chuck - he didn't even get to the "HAAAAAW" and those dogs ran for the hills with their tails between their legs. I didn't even get to grab the BB gun to teach them their one warning lesson!

fivehorses
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:32 PM
Wow, thanks for all the great ideas and support.

I know that whatever I do, and I am not beyond sss, I have to be aware and prepared for retailiation. That is the problem...victim mindset...it freezes you and allows you to become a victim.

I want to mention a few things. I did not fence the chickens off because I am familiar with fox season, and its not till the leaves come out(mid may). I had planned to fence these chickens because they were such a great bunch next week during school vacation. In the past, losing a few a year was part of it, but this group was different. Fencing has been bought, but now for nothing.

I am moving in the fall, so any expense is a serious consideration. Its also New england, and lots of brush, stone, trees etc make it challenging to fence with anything but barbless wire. I am giving up about 20' to put up stockade fence on one side. I costed it out, and its a couple thousand to put up fencing to keep the dogs out, and same for stockade fencing, probably more. I know I want the stockade fence so they cannot see my goings on up here.

The neighbors are majorily messed up. Their dogs have not been out that any of us have seen. Today they were let out when I left this afternoon, but my worker went over to the crest of the hill to let him know someone was here, and he called them back in, and tonight, after work, I had one of my helpers take my car to get all of us chinese food...and I stayed home, and don't ya know, as soon as my car goes by the neighbors, out come their dogs. As soon as my car drives back by, dogs go in.
So, on top of it all, they are definitely watching me. I am lucky that I have help here for most of the day.

Right now, it seems they are very afraid of 'letting the dogs out'. But that isn't going to last forever.

I did shoot my gun this afternoon, and honestly, I think I am going to try and drive them crazy! Like target practicing every day, boys who work for me make a moto-x track in the lower field, walk my dogs along the road by their house...just make them feel very uncomfortable and want to vacate(they are tenants) and august 1 is their 1 year.

Our houses are less than 300' apart, so we are very close together. They have 3-4 dogs, and if they can't let them out, well, then they are not going to be very happy.

There will be no other dogs roaming... there are not a lot of loose dogs here. In fact, I have never in 20 years had a loose dog show up. It just isn't considered ok to let your dogs wander. We are kind of isolated because I own a large piece of land and surround them, so we are kind of cozy. Dad felt entitled to let his dogs run where they wanted, his kids to scream, toss balls in my field, build tree fort on my property, etc These are what I call 'entitled' folk. I have tried not to respond and just keep the peace. Obviously, that did not work out well for my chickens.

This was a malicious act...they waited for me to leave, let their dogs out, and easily observed the slaughter...it was a line from their house to my barnyard. Prior to this it was obnoxious paybacks...moving the trampoline closer to my house side of the property line, telling their kids to scream, leaving their boombox on and no one outside, etc If I asked them to do or not do something to make life easier, then it would be louder to prove their point.

I really am not sure what I am going to do...if the dogs do go poof, you know they will retailiate. If I call ACO, well, I do know they like to consider themselves upstanding and it would bother them to have the police involved.
Last fall, the police came when they had been discharging a paintball gun by the horses. They were 'good' for about a week.

I think I have the cards now so to speak, and need to keep the pressure up...I do know the dad loves his chocolate and is crazy about him. So, he might feel as fearful as I am. I think/hope target practice lets him know, this is a farm, and I do have rights to shoot an animal attacking my livestock.

Chickens are one thing, but if they harmed my horses or my goat, well, don't want to say what I might do or the boys who work for me.

I really do need to think out what is the best course to take.

I use to be very compassionate and let things slide, but this does not feel right to let these people keep me living in fear. I guess I think basically...are you the hunted or the hunter? Are you the bully or the bullied?
Dealing with rational people is one thing, these are not reasonable people. Even a phone call saying they were sorry, it got out of hand, they couldn't control their dogs, etc would have gone quite far with me.

I know they are dysfunctional, and I hate the fact that they are drawing me into their world of living on edge.
Thanks for all the support and ideas, it is very appreciated. Thanks for the suggestions/links for cameras. I do think that is the best way to go.
I have a wildlife camera, but it isn't that good. You have to be 15' or closer at night, and it only takes one shot every 2 minutes. So, I do have to upgrade.
I keep wanting an ipad, but keep having to get stupid stuff like fencing and cameras!
thanks all.

JanM
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:36 PM
Unfortunately, when faced with aggressive, trespassing dogs and their looney tunes retaliatory owner there isn't much the OP can do but move, which is being planned apparently. And unfortunately for her in many states where you have disclosure laws you probably would have to tell prospective buyers about the neighbor problems. I wish there was another solution, but faced with nutty, aggressive neighbors that have already proven to be dangerous and vindictive I don't think even having video of their dogs trespassing and killing livestock will do any good.

I do remember the original thread about the awful neighbors, and I don't see any possibility of compromise, or any type of peaceful coexistence in the future. People like the neighbors should be ashamed of themselves, and sadly I don't think they will ever realize that other people have the right to enjoy their own property without harassment and being threatened. It's too bad that all of the horrible neighbors couldn't move into the same neighborhoods, because they certainly ruin things for the nice people in this world.

I don't think calling the police is going to do any good for the long term, because as you've already found out the people only behave for a little while. I like the target practice, and other ideas on here, and I also like the constant carrying idea too. I think the privacy fence is a great idea, and I hope the neighbors do move in August.

rustbreeches
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:41 PM
If they are tenants could you perhaps contact the landlord? He may not even be aware that they have dogs in the house. If it is a property management company so much the better because they don't want to deal with a ticked off neighbor! Sending you a PM on another solution

fivehorses
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:47 PM
Racetrackreject, I use to agree, it wasn't the dog's fault, its the owners fault.

But, hypothetically, if I shoot the dogs, let me be very clear...it is to make the owner's heart suffer. I want him to pay, and if its through his dog, so be it. He allowed them to do it. I would never have considered shooting his dogs, never, if they hadn't killed my chickens. He allowed it, and I am taking the eye for an eye approach.
I don't have any more animals, other than my goat that the dogs could harm. My horses can fend for themselves. two of them have already kicked at their dogs...and I do worry a bit about the horses too, and that is why I bring them in if no one is on farm. I don't want them to be shot with a BB or whatever and I can't prove it.

Now, of course, this is all hypothetical, and of course, if I was to do something like that, no animals of mine would be on the farm for any retribution from neighbor.

It would be sss. I am sorry that I sound so cruel, and cannot even believe I think this way, but people who live right, keep animals responsibly, employ people in good wage who like their job are all losing. Because I will not live next to people of this kind. Life is too short.
I like doing my thing, on my property. I like to share that with others if they want. I try and tread softly. I don't impose and I thank my neighbors when they help me with something. I have all my other neighbors who are inconvenienced by these people, but as they have all said, I take the brunt of it since I am right next to them.

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:48 PM
I'm sorry about your chooks.

If you truly want to know my opinion, here it is.

1) you are partially at fault, you suspected the neighbours dogs but did not reinforce the fence so the mutts couldn't get thru. Add woven fencing to your fence.

2) cameras, that way you have video proof for a lawsuit

3) Kill them. I would. If you have no stomach for that, which I do understand, paintball them.

These peeps are a$$hats, they don't care what happens to their animals any more than they care what happpens to theirs.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but then it comes to brass tacks, you need to protect you and yours.

I hope you find a solution.

LBR

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:51 PM
I'm also going to suggest if the house ever goes up for sale...BUY IT. Rent it to peeps who respect your animals.

My advice may sound harsh, but I really am sorry about your chickens.

LBR

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:54 PM
Fivehorses- are you the one with the neighbours who recently moved in? Played loud music, and generally acted like sh!theads?? This was after the house had been rented for a bit? And you own most of the hill??

LBR

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 09:58 PM
seriously... the acting crazier then they are really does work... and I would TOTALLY go for the motocross field and daily target practice. ;grin; it's even better if you can have friend out too and they shoot as well. It's your land.. makeyour self WELL KNOWN ALL over it... Often!

Good Luck. I have come home to dead chickens myself too. It's no fun.

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:00 PM
Fivehorses- are you the one with the neighbours who recently moved in? Played loud music, and generally acted like sh!theads?? This was after the house had been rented for a bit? And you own most of the hill??

LBR

LBR... there are often lots of threads with that same tone... I had mine last spring and I can think of 5 with similar tone since then. It seems to be a common theme.

fivehorses
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:08 PM
yes, lbr, that was me.

My neighbor on the other side is coming down tomorrow to do some target practicing with me! LOL
I also invited another truck driver friend to come over with his 20gauge shotgun.
I also have a friend who does military work, and looks creepy.
Each of these people we will be walking along the property line(me showing them off) and then out back to shoot.

Also, for the record, no, I really did not think the dogs would attack my chickens. Yes, they came over here, but did not attack the animals, but then again. Usually, I would be home or someone would be and we'd shoo them home.
I do feel terrible that I let my hens and rooster down. The rooster had feathers in the barn yard, in the middle of the field between our houses, and in the side yard by the neighbors...so he fought hard to defend the flock and himself. If I had lost one chicken or seen the dogs act agressively, I would have acted. That was not the case. I was gone for 2 hours...neighbors knew it, and let their dogs have at it.

As far as no climb, due to the lay of the land, it would not work...too uneven, trees, etc. I have no climb on my property in sc, and its great stuff, but not here in new england on my uneven ground.

I'd get a donkey or dog, but I have a dog, and don't want my dog stomped by my donkey. I also don't think this property is properly fenced to keep in any type of LGD.

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:20 PM
i have found the shooting thing to be pretty effective in terms of tuning up other people's behavior. and I always have at least one big dog with me.... no one has been stupid enough to tangle with the gun toting mama and her big dog/dogs. and any interation is uncomfortably polite. Mr or Mrs, SoandSo, Sir and Ma'am. Makes them very not sure what to expect and that is they way I like it.

I'm telling ya... the crazy thing works really well ;)

DH's ex military shooting buddy looks like a neonazi skinhead, or at least that is what I tease him about all the time. The crazier it looks to everyone else the better. Keep em' guessing.

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:21 PM
Cater- I hate to think that 5H's situ is common, are you trying to run me off the idea of having my own place;)? I saw her name and it rang a bell, then read some other posts that made me ask.

5H- I didn't read all posts first, sorry, I thought you had said the N D had gotten a chook or two before. I really do feel for you and the chooks, and was in no way *flaming(for lack of better word)* just my opinion. I'm big on protecting what's mine, kind of crazy about it to be honest;).

From what you have posted in the past, these peeps are a bit postal, so I do understand the wariness about reprisal.

The only other thing I would think is talk to the local law enforcement, find some way to reinforce your fence.

Is there anyway you could move permenently to your SC farm??

LBR

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:25 PM
Cater-I don't have to work on the crazy bit, comes natural, add to that my British eccentricity and excessive NEED for privacy...got crazy covered! ;)

LBR

GoForAGallop
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:29 PM
I'd get a donkey or dog, but I have a dog, and don't want my dog stomped by my donkey. I also don't think this property is properly fenced to keep in any type of LGD.

For what it's worth--my mule will stomp on anything that comes into his pasture (except kitties! He loves kitties!) from plastic bags to tree branches to dogs. HOWEVER, he is well aware that if he is introduced to a dog, then he is not allowed to stomp on said dog. My dogs can scurry around his feet and he does nothing....a friend's dog on the property immediately brings a snorting, pawing mule up to the closest fenceline raring for business! :lol:

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:36 PM
nah LBR.. jsut be prepared to let everyone else think you are crazy.... I seriously tried to be really nice to the neighbors when we moved in here almost two years ago..after being verbally assualted on a number of occasions and a couple months after we moved in I came home to two dead chickens, my coop with the chickenwire busted in everywhere and the tack room in my horse trailer ransasked and sunblock squirted all over my tack. :angry: after that the gloves came off... the fence went up and it was HOT. and we added dogs and guns. The only concern I have now is keeping my goats adn the kids small pony safe when I'm not home. Hence really considering a LGD, basically I'm just waiting for the right dog to come along. I do all's well walks in the AM and night before bed and the shepard cross that we got last may is now mature enough that he patrols during the day. But nighttime worries me... even though the goats and pony are in a paddock that is near the house. Another line of defense would put my mind at ease.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:39 PM
Most dogs I have seen that know they do not belong on a property usually will not cross the property line with another dog protecting it.


I'm suspecting that you don't live in a very rural area or have livestock...other than, maybe, your horse, on your place? I have a herd of mares that foal outside, some younger stock and my adult colts/stallions. I have Aussies that are taught the property line in the front (I don't care if they go out the back...its miles of desert) where the road is. I don't wait for a stray to chase or attack my stock....if I catch them on my place they get one warning when I chase them out with the snapping lunge whip and a lot of yelling. If I catch them here a second time and don't know who they belong to they will be shot if they go anywhere near my stock (and since horses are on virtually the entire place that makes it pretty simple to decide if they are in with my stock). Some of my neighbors didn't think the "old lady" would do such a thing when I first moved here and there were plenty of strays (mostly from other ranches who shoot things that come on THEIR place!). A few of them never going home seems to have settled the issue of whether or not I shoot and whether or not I can aim well. Rarely see one now and the few I've seen in the last couple months I now know where they belong and their owner gets a call. If I see them again I either shoot or call AC and have them picked up (depending partly on how I feel about their owner to be honest).

Hampton Bay
Apr. 21, 2011, 10:41 PM
check if it's legal to shoot animals harassing your livestock. in most states, it is.

also, call animal control EVERY TIME you see the dogs on your property. in this case, don't even bother trying to chase the dogs away or deal with the owners. either shoot them or call a/c every time they are on your land.

i feel for you. i can't stand my neighbors for some very similar reasons. i've told them that if their dog gets a chicken, i will shoot it. of course, that makes me the bad person, because the dog is worth more than the chicken to them. of course, that's not the case when the dog is playing in the road...

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:12 PM
Cater-I don't have to work on the crazy bit, comes natural, add to that my British eccentricity and excessive NEED for privacy...got crazy covered! ;)

LBR

I'll be your neighbor... we'll get along just fine ;) You decide on a SAboerbel yet???

Catersun
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:14 PM
in amusing rural humor I talked to the DNR enforcement officer today who told me that we have a coyote pack in the area at least 10-12 strong.... makes me think it's more and it's not just coyotes causing trouble if that is what HE is admitting to... ;p the fun of country living.

ladybugred
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:24 PM
C- MORE than decided!!! The DAY I move (or before) I plan on bringing one home, just trying to finalize on a breeder. Really is coming down to colour or tan, the breeders I have in mind are good so that's the last choice.

That description is me on a GOOD day! You do you're thing, I'll do mine. Want to be be chums, great. Dont, fine , just leave each other be.

I just see no need for hijinks, I have neither time nor energy!

LBR

CaliZ
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:30 PM
What's SSS?

I'm so sorry to hear about your chickens! What a tough situation. Neighbours like that are just terrible to deal with. You've been getting great advice so far though.

I like the idea of trapping them but I would be concerned what consequences it might have for my horse's well being (worried about neighbour doing something to them). Maybe I would inform them that I would be setting traps and they need to come and let them out themselves. That would probably be annoying/shameful enough that they would be more careful.

fivehorses
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:49 PM
Oh, I don't think these neighbors find anything shameful.

sss means shoot, shovel and shut up.

In my case, I might shoot, but I am dragging them out back and letting the coyotes eat em.

JanM
Apr. 22, 2011, 07:41 AM
LBR-unfortunately there have been repeated "bad neighbors" or "crazy neighbors" threads on here. In fact if you search the topic I'm sure you'll be surprised, and I certainly have been shocked at what some property owners have to put up with. It's sad that people can't just stay on their own property, and keep their animals on their property, but it just doesn't work that way.

I can't remember a single neighborhood I've ever lived in that didn't have people with wandering, vandalizing children, were hoarders, or some type of criminals. Unfortunately, there seems to be a universal rule that every subdivision or area has a bad neighbor. I wish that people could all live in peace on their own property but it just doesn't seem to work that way, and it really isn't fair. Plus, if you try to do something about the bad or criminal neighbors the police and other authorities can't protect you from them forever and in many places are very limited in enforcement options.

One of the happiest days of my life was when the drug dealer and her boyfriend sold out (from continued 'attention' from the police) and moved. I think that's one of the good sides to renting, since you aren't stuck with a property and can move, which isn't always an option in today's economic climate.

And as I recall the OP already contacted the owner of the property, and they are not going to intervene.

Bluey
Apr. 22, 2011, 07:48 AM
SSS is appropiated when you know dog owners are not controlling/confining their dogs, so their meandering and bothering properly managed livestock and dogs are at risk from those wanderers.

If everyone is trying to keep their dogs in and you see one out, you catch it or get the word out, as you can assume it got out and the owner is frantic looking for it.
In that situation, you don't sss.

Most rural areas is where you find the kind of loose dogs that the only way to protect yours permanently is, sadly, sss.

RacetrackReject
Apr. 22, 2011, 09:11 AM
I'm suspecting that you don't live in a very rural area or have livestock...other than, maybe, your horse, on your place? I have a herd of mares that foal outside, some younger stock and my adult colts/stallions. I have Aussies that are taught the property line in the front (I don't care if they go out the back...its miles of desert) where the road is. I don't wait for a stray to chase or attack my stock....if I catch them on my place they get one warning when I chase them out with the snapping lunge whip and a lot of yelling. If I catch them here a second time and don't know who they belong to they will be shot if they go anywhere near my stock (and since horses are on virtually the entire place that makes it pretty simple to decide if they are in with my stock). Some of my neighbors didn't think the "old lady" would do such a thing when I first moved here and there were plenty of strays (mostly from other ranches who shoot things that come on THEIR place!). A few of them never going home seems to have settled the issue of whether or not I shoot and whether or not I can aim well. Rarely see one now and the few I've seen in the last couple months I now know where they belong and their owner gets a call. If I see them again I either shoot or call AC and have them picked up (depending partly on how I feel about their owner to be honest).

I live in a very rural place and as of now I only have horses and chickens and dogs, but I have had cattle, pigs, turkeys, ducks, and all sorts of livestock previously and on larger acreage in an even more rural area .

That's you and you can do what you want. It's not what I would do first. Eventually, maybe, but it's not my first approach. I haven't killed any dogs since I've moved here and, up until the neighbor picked up 2 new dogs, I hadn't had any issues since I first moved here except when a new dog is brought into the mix. This is just my experience.

Belg
Apr. 22, 2011, 10:06 AM
Just a thought, but why not run some electric fence around at dog height. 10k volts is one heck of a fido deterrent.

katarine
Apr. 22, 2011, 10:18 AM
You know, way back, when the neighbor's three Rotties came onto my place and got my DH's 100+ lb Chow/Lord Knows What cross down and hurt him....it had been stewing a while. There'd been many a High Noon type of standoffs at the property line, but Buck couldn't handle three Rotties who wanted his territory. Buck knew his property and toured and guarded it. Those dogs wanted his territory, and Buck couldn't control them.

But the AR15 sure could. In all our years here that was the one time it had to happen. Later when same neighbor's motley pack hurt Sable, and he said kill 'em: we didn't. But we woke him, and everyone else up, a few mornings unloading a 9MM into the pond. Those dogs vanished.

Our current neighbors have a funny little pair of a mini pinscher, I think it is, and a motly Catahula female, they come visit, I don't care, they are good dogs. Same for our other neighbors, whose Shep and Abby come by daily. No worries.

The reality bites hard enough sometimes to leave a mark, and that is my experience talking. I don't wish it on anyone, but I don't mind being considered just a titch trigger happy, it creates a perception of 'don't go there'.

grayarabpony
Apr. 22, 2011, 10:31 AM
Sorry if this has been covered but is Animal Control of any use? If not I'd shoot them once with rock salt and then for real.

I hate, hate, hate loose dogs, because they are mostly annoying and destructive. It's irresponsible dog ownership to let them run loose and I don't care where you live.

pj
Apr. 22, 2011, 11:06 AM
As far as no climb, due to the lay of the land, it would not work...too uneven, trees, etc. I have no climb on my property in sc, and its great stuff, but not here in new england on my uneven ground.

I'd get a donkey or dog, but I have a dog, and don't want my dog stomped by my donkey. I also don't think this property is properly fenced to keep in any type of LGD.

No climb will not absolutely stop a determined dog although it does help.
Some will remember our battle with our across the road neighbor a few years back when he was allowing his two dogs to run loose (we have a leash law) and the dogs were killing our goats. We spent thousands on no climb to try to keep them out and the last time they got in they had DUG in.

For an update since we reported them to animal control, took them to court, won the case and told them IF we didn't see their dogs out they didn't have to pay the award but that if we saw them we'd go after the money any way that we could we haven't seen either dog. It's been bliss. LOL is that blackmail? If it is I don't care.

For stupid excuses how about this? The neighbor told me fifty times that he COULDN'T keep his dogs up because...ready...if he did the bobcats would come in and grab his loose chickens! That made it okay that they were coming over killing my goats. They killed nine in three separate attacks one of which he'd seen.

He also said of the last attack that HIS dogs didn't dig in, some other dogs did and his just saw the hole and came in. The other dogs attacked the goats, too, never mind that we saw his dogs attacking the goats.

Some people just amaze me with their stupidity and their "Me and my wants are the most important things in the world."

I really feel for you. I know during our struggle I was in a rage all the time and it's not a good thing to have to live like that.

Want to mention, too, that our ac told us to get pictures anytime we saw the dogs as long as they weren't on their own property. Going down the road, on our property whatever. Said it made winning a court case a whole lot easier.

Hope I haven't jinxed myself saying I haven't seen those dogs...I'd really really hate for this to start up again.

fivehorses
Apr. 22, 2011, 11:38 AM
Oh, if they killed my goat, I know a few boys who would sit in the trees waiting for the dogs to come out and shoot them.
Their mom last night told me that she'd be more than happy to have her son kill their dogs. His dad earlier told me his son was an excellent shot, as well as knowing how to trap. I guess thats the good part of knowing your locals!
They are the sss type, where I was brought up to do no harm and my dad and brothers took care of things.
But, that is the leaf that is turning over...I will be the one to shoot the dogs, unless I am not home, and then whoever is here can if they want. And, just about everyone of my help does want to shoot the dogs.

For those reading in horror, believe me, I have had many a neighbor's dog here and no harm, and owner quite thankful for me returning or finding them. But this was vindictive on the neighbor's part, and that is the difference.

I have been on the phone with various security companies and getting a camera to feed back to my house is not going to be possible on the downhill side, so we will have to do a wildlife cam, which is ok.

I can run a camera to dvr on the up side of the property closest to the house.

My tenants, who I thought would be very opposed to me shooting the guns, said they don't mind at all, and encourage it. She also said, they'd keep an ear out. They are pretty far away so might not hear anything unfortunately, and cannot see anything.

I am going to call marestare, but have to say, most security cams that feed back to dvr's are short runs(100').
Ok, off to call cabelas now to get some wildlife cams.

Any other suggestions or links welcome.

JanM, I think you nailed it, just about everyone will have a nasty neighbor or problem of some sort. Some just don't manage their dogs, which I think is so sad. Others, like my neighbors absolutly love their dogs, and think it was fine to harrass me by allowing their dogs to bark for hours or to come onto my property. They never were here long enough to cause a problem, and the horses were out and went after the dogs. The afternoon this happened, I was gone, horses in, and the dogs were let out to run, and allowed to kill in clear sight, I am sure to intimidate, pay me back for something they perceive I did.
I probably appear to be quite walk over material...and I am.
But, the line was crossed, and payback is going to be a bitch. In time, in time.
I have all summer to become a marksman. Its my goal. I want to be a good shot. I am competitive by nature, so I want to be better shot than any of my help, LOL.

I also agree, someone shooting guns does set the neighbors a bit on edge. I am telling all the other neighbors whats going on, and I am sure they will be quite upset at the chicken slaughter, and no one likes the neighbor due to their noise and well, just surly behavior...to me and to everyone else.

So, I am on my way to become a bit less predicatable! I know my neighbor above me is delighted I am taking up guns!

I just have to keep a very close tab, thus the cameras placed conspiculously so they don't do harm to the horses.

asb_own_me
Apr. 22, 2011, 11:58 AM
Here's my problem - what do you do when the AC you call refuses to take responsibility for your area?

pj
Apr. 22, 2011, 12:19 PM
Here's my problem - what do you do when the AC you call refuses to take responsibility for your area?

In our case I had to bug ac daily for a week before they came out. When he did all he could do was tell the neighbor that a complaint had been filed and he had to keep his dogs up. Didn't do a bit of good. That's when ac told me to take pictures in case we did end up going to court.

The court thing I did myself in small claims.
One other thing I did before going to court was to ask neighbors for statements saying they'd seen the dogs on their property, the roads or whatever.
I think that helped as it wasn't only my dh and myself as witnesses although we were the only ones who had seen the dogs attacking the goats except the one time the neighbor saw it himself. I didn't think he'd admit it in court though.

LOL I did a whole lot of target practice during that time, too. Told the neighbor I was going to shoot his dogs. "Nice man" that he is he said, do whatcha gotta do.

WoofNWhinny*
Apr. 22, 2011, 01:22 PM
I've been thinking about this thread... :lol:

Would these be helpful? What do you think?

Barn safety...

http://www.zazzle.com/loose_dogs_harass_livestock_bumper_sticker-128418052104020594?gl=WoofNWhinny&rf=238969727029590657

http://www.zazzle.com/animal_control_bumper_sticker-128290318659104785?gl=WoofNWhinny&rf=238969727029590657

http://www.zazzle.com/loose_dogs_not_welcome_bumper_sticker-128015727888110573?gl=WoofNWhinny&rf=238969727029590657


:cool:

trubandloki
Apr. 22, 2011, 01:37 PM
What's SSS?


From page 2:


Shoot
Shovel (dispose of the body)
Shut up


Shoot. Shovel. Shut up.

StGermain
Apr. 22, 2011, 02:45 PM
The more I read this thread, the more I love my neighbors.

StG

Catersun
Apr. 22, 2011, 04:05 PM
yep St.G... good neighbors are worth their weight in gold... for the rest of them... let them think it's a Bad Idea to mess with you.

sketcher
Apr. 22, 2011, 05:08 PM
after being verbally assualted on a number of occasions and a couple months after we moved in I came home to two dead chickens, my coop with the chickenwire busted in everywhere and the tack room in my horse trailer ransasked and sunblock squirted all over my tack. :angry: after that the gloves came off... the fence went up and it was HOT. and we added dogs and guns. The only concern I have now is keeping my goats adn the kids small pony safe when I'm not home. Hence really considering a LGD, basically I'm just waiting for the right dog to come along. I do all's well walks in the AM and night before bed and the shepard cross that we got last may is now mature enough that he patrols during the day. But nighttime worries me... even though the goats and pony are in a paddock that is near the house. Another line of defense would put my mind at ease.

Good grief it is not worth it to live next to a neighbor like that. I can not for the life of me understand why you would not pack up and move. I would rather lose a little money and have to start on another property before I would spend my life worrying about how I can protect myself every waking (and sleeping) moment. It is simply not worth it.

On my way out, I would do my best to make sure they end up with the most obnoxious neighbors possible - whether it be someone with 10 screaming children, some who wants to farm pigs, maybe someone who wants to start a junkyard...

Catersun
Apr. 22, 2011, 05:32 PM
Good grief it is not worth it to live next to a neighbor like that. I can not for the life of me understand why you would not pack up and move. I would rather lose a little money and have to start on another property before I would spend my life worrying about how I can protect myself every waking (and sleeping) moment. It is simply not worth it.

On my way out, I would do my best to make sure they end up with the most obnoxious neighbors possible - whether it be someone with 10 screaming children, some who wants to farm pigs, maybe someone who wants to start a junkyard...


I'm sorry your feel that way. I rather like my life, because I'd taken every precaution to fence critters and people out I can feel pretty comfortable letting my children play in the yard. Crap happens... I'd rather know in my heart of hearts that I did everything I could to prevent something from happeneing and it just happened anyways, than live with "what ifs" that would plaque me if I didn't.

We don't have problems with the neighbors anymore, haven't in the past year. Ever since we were moved the "I'm a DoorMat" sign from our backs. My only concern now is wildlife ei the pack of coytoes that have been coming too close for my comfort.

We RAN from a horrible situation when we moved here... I'm done moving. Our name is on this deed. This Is Mine and I will defend it. A few others on the board have heard the stories of what we went through before and our experience during that time has further concreted our lifestyle. I'd rather be prepared and not need it than need it and not have it. You can't run from everything... at some point you need to take a stand.

MagicRoseFarm
Apr. 22, 2011, 08:30 PM
I would contact the neighbor by phone or mail:
"HI, I wanted you to know that there is a very dangerous predator in our neighborhood. Last week my dear , sweet pet chickens ( that were a gift from my ailing mother) were massacred. Every last one of them. I contacted animal control, who is currently running tests on the bodies. They have advised me to protect my animals in any way possible as they are EXTREMELY concerned that this dangerous predator could be rabid and is a severe health and safety issue for children and pets in our neighborhood. They are helping me install security cameras and have offered to patrol the neighborhood after dark. Although it was very expensive, as a preventative measure I have had the vet out to re-vaccinate my horses and goats. I am totally heartbroken but wanted you to know so you could protect your children and dogs."

A few days after you are sure they know- have a friend, in what looks like an unmarked car, do a drive by or two and shine a deer hunting spotlight all around (and in their windows) after dark.
Hopefully, the thought that animal control is testing your dead chickens is enough to make them fearful of (innocently achieved) legal retaliation.

I would speak with the landlord, the dogs might be a breach of lease.
I also like your "living your life" while driving them crazy idea.

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 02:17 PM
This morning, one week after the slaughter of my chickens, the neighbors dogs were up on my property.

I was putting out horses hay, and saw them. Wife came out and called to the dogs, so I went over to property line and said "I have asked you to keep your dogs at home, my entire flock of chickens were killed last sunday, and if your dogs come up here again, I am shooting them."
More words were exchanged, telling me Jesus loved me, she is suing me for slander(not sure what that was about), and I repeated a few times, "The dogs will be shot, I am not going to be threatened by your dogs. I ended the conversation with her screaming at me(she really never stopped yelling) that this was not a threat, but a warning. Keep your dogs home."

Ok...a half hour later, cop is in their driveway, and then comes to my house.
The neighbor told him that I threatened to kill her. Now, I never said that, would never say that. Not even if I was quite upset...just would never say something like that.

So, I told the cop what I said, what she said, and thank GOD, I had a person here who helps me, who was standing right next to me and heard the whole thing. THANK GOD. The kid was already out in the barn cleaning stalls, so had no privy that the cop was even here...so he was interviewed before 'we' could talk, which would make what he said even more valid than if I had a chance to coach him.
When the officer came back into my house after interviewing my help, I asked him and told him I was quite concerned about the accusation. The cop said she was going to file a restraining order and tell the court I threatened her, most likely my guns(which were my dad's) will be taken. He suggested I call the chief in the morning. He said there would be a hearing and the judge would decide if I could have the guns back or not.

I asked him what happens if she files this and is lying...don't I have any rights too? I mean this is a false statement and could seriously jeopardize my life...one, if someone ever broke in here(Mont Vernon, NH murder) and if I was ever pulled over for a speeding ticket, and the police saw I had threatened someone, or trying to get on a plane, or so many things. I mean I don't think this is something to take lightly.

I do have the person who heard the whole thing, I am known in this town, so this is quite out of my character and far fetched, etc. But, who knows how a judge might see it?

Oh good grief, not the way to spend Easter.
On a good note, the officer said he would go back down and get her statement and tell her there would be no problems if she kept her dogs at home, and her things on her property and not come onto mine. Its pretty simple, but true.

But, I still have the issue if she does file a restraining order and says I threatened her.

Am I valid for being concerned, cause I really am. I am such a stay within the lines kind of person and have never really had any kind of brush with the law, so I guess I am feeling very concerned. I mean she not only made a false statement, but a pretty serious one.

I have posted about these neighbors, and a part of me feels badly for them because they are so dysfunctional. I really try and live a quiet, don't bother anyone kind of life, and not react to their every incident but try and ignore it and move forward. I have moved most of my living space on the furthest side of the house so as not to see or hear them. I am a lot less confrontational in real life than I am on here. I can be a good doormat.
I not only have to bring my horses in when no one is on farm, but now I feel like I have to have someone always here since they know when I am alone. I am afraid they might say I said something, you know the two of them making a statement vs one of me.

I will never speak to them again...never. Even if their dogs kill my goat. I will call 911. These are really bad people. She knows I didn't threaten her, and so for me to hear someone lie like that, I would not put anything past them.
Sorry for the book. and thanks for listening.

bizbachfan
Apr. 24, 2011, 02:28 PM
Oh that is just awful. Sorry to hear this has gotten worse. I hope it works out for you. Hopefully the facts will come to light. Unbelievable!

GrayCatFarm
Apr. 24, 2011, 02:44 PM
It's lawyer time. And find one that like to dine on fresh kill. I'd bet it won't be this family's first brush with legal. Arm yourself, both physically and intellectually.

Eye in the Sky
Apr. 24, 2011, 02:51 PM
Contact an attorney NOW!!!! Do not go down without a defense! You also have many months of threads on COTH to prove this was an ongoing battle!

I am so sorry this is happening to you. :(

Threebars
Apr. 24, 2011, 03:14 PM
Thirding - get legal protection, NOW. Sounds pretty hicky that the court would 'seize your guns' based on an unsubstantiated accusation.

vacation1
Apr. 24, 2011, 03:18 PM
Trash lies. It never fails. Sorry you had to experience this. The advice to get a lawyer is sound. At this point, you're at the mercy of all parties - the cops, the judge, and the neighbor. A lawyer gives you back some leverage.

GrayCatFarm
Apr. 24, 2011, 03:45 PM
A lawyer has the ability to get a great of information, databases, outstanding warrants, prior records, etc. that prove useful. Landlord may be liable for actions of tenants as nuisance, who knows? But, I bet your lawyer will know where the pressure points are. Good luck.

rustbreeches
Apr. 24, 2011, 03:45 PM
Fortunately, you have your call to AC to corroborate your story about the dogs. In most small towns, trash like this is not taken seriously. They might already have a record. The magistrate, police, judge etc have seen so much of this stuff go through that the uneducated, raving lunatic is generally never believed. So lawyer up and speak the King's English. I would have a friend hold on to your guns for awhile, just in case.

Fairview Horse Center
Apr. 24, 2011, 03:58 PM
Make sure you have a camera with you at all times, and document the dogs next visit. Also, even a cell phone video of anything you say to her, or she says to you, maybe a mini-voice recorder. You don't have to waive it around, just be ready to push record.

RougeEmpire
Apr. 24, 2011, 04:26 PM
Holy heck! I agree with everyone else get a LAWYER and get everything documented. It's nice to say "the law is on our side" and "they wont believe that trash"....but lets be honest about the courty system. Sometimes it is totally screwed up, innocent people go to jail and guilty people walk!

Zarafia
Apr. 24, 2011, 04:51 PM
What a nutbag!
Try not to panic. Get yourself a lawyer and you ought to be fine. Around here it's a lot harder to get a restraining order than you would think, it might be that way where you are too.
One thing that is VERY important from here on: Document EVERYTHING. Any and every interaction between you and your neighbors and their dogs, write it down along with date and time!
Good luck!

Long Spot
Apr. 24, 2011, 04:58 PM
Make sure you have a camera with you at all times, and document the dogs next visit. Also, even a cell phone video of anything you say to her, or she says to you, maybe a mini-voice recorder. You don't have to waive it around, just be ready to push record.

Mmmm, she might need to wave it around. In some states it's illegal to tape a conversation without the other parties consent.

That being said, I certainly would be prepared to record any further conversation she tries to have with you. But you need to find out if you need to inform her if you are doing so.

I know you don't plan to have anymore discussions with her, five, but that doesn't mean she's not going to try.

I'm really sorry you are going through this and I'm sorry about your chickens.

People are right. You need a lawyer. Now.

JanM
Apr. 24, 2011, 06:12 PM
Yes you need a lawyer. And I want to know how your right to have guns on your property can be negated by the police? It sounds like the cop was bluffing, and the next time they come on your property they better have a warrant. I would immediately make a complaint about the neighbor filing a false police report, especially since you have a witness to back it up. I would also get the nastiest lawyer in town, and have them go after these people. You still have rights, and a bunch of trash living next door doesn't cancel the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights. Stay strong, and defend yourself legally. Bullies only go after people they think they can harass, and it's time the neighbors joined together to fight these people. Your lawyer needs to talk to others who have had the same problems with these idiots, and maybe they will eventually move and leave you in peace.

JSwan
Apr. 24, 2011, 06:43 PM
Fivehorses -

No offense to you or anyone who has posted on this thread - but this is why it's important to know what your rights are, as a citizen and landowner, before crap like this happens. In YOUR jurisdiction.

And while it is nice of folks to bring up the Bill of Rights and SSS, the truth is that laws vary. What is perfectly legal in North Dakota, may be illegal in an equestrian subdivision in Florida.

Most landowners have a crazy neighbor story or two or five. Crazy neighbors happen. And if you know the law (including local ordinances), document document document (as permitted by law), you are going to be in a much stronger position should the sh** hit the fan.

That neighbor may be trash - but being trash doesn't mean they don't know how to work the system - and make YOU out to be the bad guy.

At this point your only course of action should be to consult counsel - and frankly you shouldn't be posting about this on the Internet. If you don't know a good criminal attorney, then contact your state or local bar association for a referral, or use martindale.com.

A bad neighbor can be a nightmare, especially a vindictive, lying neighbor. They are the ones who will call AC on you - just for spite.

So really and truly - your first call in the morning should be to a lawyer. If nothing else, you can nip this crap in the bud before the neighbor decides to make it her mission in life to ruin you.

I'm really sorry for your troubles, and I do not believe that you threatened her.

Good luck to you.

cloudyandcallie
Apr. 24, 2011, 06:53 PM
I told you to tape all conversations. (Legal if one party consents, that party being you.) If it is just one person's word against the other, the judge might decide to let a case go forward. So you are lucky to have your help who heard the conversation.

But you cannot get into a screaming match with people. You need the video camera I suggested days ago, and the tiny Sony tape recorder I suggested days ago. Then you would have pix of the dogs, and a video/tape recording of the neighbor going crazy.

And since the guy has some political influence, doesn't he? you need to be extra careful.

Consult the best lawyer in town tomorrow. Then get your video camera and your Sony tape recorder.

I'd also hire a security guard to sit there, if you can afford it.

BTW, "Making a false report to a police office" is a crime. So get a copy of her police report tomorrow before she decides to get it torn up.

And you did get a receipt for all the guns that were taken, right? With their serial #s on the receipt? If not, go to police station NOW and get it.

Big_Grey_hunter
Apr. 24, 2011, 06:54 PM
I have nothing to add but good luck :( Crappy neighbors are just awful.

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 07:16 PM
First off, no guns were taken. Where did you read that?
Secondly, I really do not like living my life documenting every time their dogs come onto my property, every time its noisy after hours, etc...I mean does anyone really want to live like that?. I'd be documenting every day.
I do have pics from my cell phone if the dogs are close enough to me which gives me a pic and date.

This was pretty spontaneous conversation. I will carry a cell phone, but I am not carrying recorders...I am working...farm work, don't have a purse nearby.

Have a dvr and security cameras on order...the chicken slaughter just happened, and things before that were a nuisance that I tended to try and ignore for my sanity sake.

I have help here 8 hours a day, really can't afford a security detail as well.
let's be realistic here about expenses...the security cameras and dvr were not exactly cheap.

I do not want to document, document, thus the cameras will do the automatic documenting versus taking time to go re live and write it all down.

I don't know my rights as well as someone who breaks the law knows theirs.
I live pretty quietly and try not to impose.
I know I have the right to target practice, and will guarrantee they don't like it, and this is one way to get me to stop.
Its really crappy neighbors, and I need at this point to lawyer up to deal with it.

As far as posting on the internet...more documentation I don't have to do, or reminders to me of stuff they have done. I don't tend to hold onto things that are negative so I forget.

I don't want to spend a ton of money on this or fencing, cameras, etc since I plan on moving this fall.

I am trying to focus on that. As I have said, these people are majorily dysfunctional, and I really don't want to join their party. For some people, they take enjoyment about being jerks and making everyone else they are near nuts.

cloudyandcallie
Apr. 24, 2011, 07:22 PM
Oh wait, I thought you said the cop took your guns? Did I misread that?

The trouble with displaying a gun at all to neighbors that you are feuding with, is that at any time they can say you pointed the gun at them. Something to really worry about as they can get you arrested for that. So always do your target practice with a friend. For a witness.

Zarafia
Apr. 24, 2011, 07:56 PM
In FL if you have a restraining order (injunction) in place against you you are not allowed to posses a firearm or have one in your house where you can access it. That is probably what was being referred to.
I was telling you to document things because that is the strong advice I got from the detective who was trying to put away the rapist who was stalking me. When he finally got caught here, attacking me, it was VERY helpful to have all my documentation in terms of getting the States Atty to prosecute to the fullest extent. Just trying to help.

Marshfield
Apr. 24, 2011, 08:05 PM
Did you ever contact the landlord for the property where these asswipes live? I somehow suspect these folks are taking lousy care of the rental property. There might be a way that the landlord could be considered liable for his/her tenants. Also agree with those who suggested lawyer.

coloredcowhorse
Apr. 24, 2011, 08:07 PM
Secondly, I really do not like living my life documenting every time their dogs come onto my property, every time its noisy after hours, etc...I mean does anyone really want to live like that?.


I certainly understand this. However.....I have a neighbor that is 6'7" and a former pro-boxer and a drinker, big time. I bought 40 acres that he apparently was hoping to buy from the estate after the fellow I bought it from died....and I bought it before the old man died and screwed up the neighbor's plans. The property has a state hwy through the middle of it. His drive is offset from mine by about maybe 50 feet. His practice was to drive his daughter to the end of his drive and she would wait until the school bus was on tis way down the road...she'd get out of the car and run diagonally across the road and into my driveway to catch the bus there instead of waiting for it to stop at her drive and wait for it to stop as the school policy states. My dogs barked at her a couple of times. Another time she got off the bus at her drive and went down the drive walking instead of either grandmother or other parent being there to pick her up. She told parents the dogs chased her down the drive. She told teachers assistant the next day that she was afraid the dogs would chase the horses, not that they had chased her. Bus driver says dogs barked but didn't cross the road. I get the sheriff in my drive with a complaint that my dogs (Aussies who might lick you to death) chased a child. So...dogs were kept in the house at night while I was at work and not let out until after the bus picked her up....she was out here two days a week by this time as dad (the boxer) had moved back to the Indian colony in town. Dogs were called in in the afternoon to make sure they didn't bark at her if she got off the bus. Our school district does 4 day weeks due to budget...off on Fridays. IF they have a Monday holiday then they go to school on Fri. I forgot completely about this on the Friday after Veterans Day and the dogs were out with me that morning...she came across the road and they barked. At that point I called them and they were happily coming to me when HE got out of the car, let the bus go on by and came into the driveway yelling obscenities and threats including killing me and my animals. Dogs went postal...barked but didn't try to bite. Sheriff again with complaint against my dogs. SO...dogs began riding with me every night on my delivery route and I stopped every morning at the sheriffs office to prove the dogs were with me....rearranged my route to make that stop at the time the bus would be going past my house. Later had 5 pups in a kennel at the end of the house (sets back about 100 feet off the road) poisoned, one of my stallions (in the field across the road and next to his drive) with a .22 hole in an upper foreleg, my house broken into and someone prowling around my place at night for several nights. I was the bad guy in all of this....cops never spoke with teachers assistant or bus driver, never spoke with him about threats (he was technically still on the highway when he did this...didn't step inside my fence line). Since then there have been probably a half dozen complaints that my horses aren't fed...sheriff has had others here to see them, noted the hay stack and the empty feed sacks and I've shown them receipts for purchases and NONE of the horses (except a 27 yr old racing line Arab mare) are even remotely thin....they are kept at about 5 on BCS. However...I'm single and was working some odd hours so my horses got fed at odd hours..not on a schedule to please anyone driving to/from work along the highway. Sheriff admits that the horses look fine, that I have feed, have proof of buying feed but says he still has to investigate any complaint. This has been going on for two years now. If I hadn't bought I'd be moving and if it continues I may anyway.

My point in all of this is that idiot neighbors can and will make your life hell just out of cussedness and if you don't document things you will be the bad guy/gal even if you are minding your own business. Document and have witnesses to anything. It really is a PITA but it also saves your bacon if it gets to a courtroom. I ended up going to court on the dog complaint... and the judge threw it out because I had statements from teachers aide, bus driver and had been taking the dogs with me to stop at the sheriffs office (and actually making the dispatcher make a note after she physically saw the dogs...every morning for 5 months!).

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 08:46 PM
I did not have a gun with me when I spoke to the neighbors!!! I hope no one thinks I did.

I know I have to document, and was not referring to your suggestions Zarafia. I appreciate your comments and support.

LMH
Apr. 24, 2011, 08:53 PM
You may hate to document but that builds your case.

Every time the dogs show up, animal control should be called.

Every time there is any 'legal issue' the sheriff should be called.

You need this background in case it does blow up. You need proof of your position not just your word against neighbors.

Yes it would be wise to hire an attorney but that won't come cheap.

If it goes down ANY road of litigation be ready with your big girl panties because the legal road is long and expensive.

Less frustrating if you document document document;)

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 09:25 PM
I have posted in the past about retaliation.
The most recent one being the fact I removed a basketball that was in my field, and next day, my chicken flock is slaughtered.
I report this, the next week I have a restraining order for criminal threatening.

I could list the other incidents but there is a clear pattern of I do something, and then something happens to me or my property.

So, I have been hesitant about reporting anything.

I have documented, just not every incident, since that would mean every day, but the more major ones.

There is no win win I can see in this. None.
And, yes, I do understand how much lawyers cost, thus why last summer when I spoke to my lawyer, I thought, ok, I can manage thru winter, and then next summer I know they make loud noise, party a lot, etc, and I will use that to help desensitize the horses. I will just manage through this until I move in the fall.
Obviously, things have taken a different turn.

Because I could be faced with a criminal order, it is lawyer time.
I know I have rights, but when it comes to guns, many do not look favorably on guns. I really do not want my right to own a gun to be taken away.

Those of you with good neighbors, go and hug them and thank them.

katarine
Apr. 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
You stepped up, and you'll be fine. Stay between the lines, stay true to the truth, and the nutbar will be hung by her nutbarness. Look, if she does get off her behind and file a restraining order, that also means she can't approach YOU. Bully for you.

Get those cameras in place, did you order some?

She's counting on being crazier than you are. Don't up the crazy, just lower your tolerance for their overt BS.

If they approach you, hold up your phone like you are filming them with it, and call 911.

AnotherRound
Apr. 24, 2011, 09:57 PM
I don't know if its right or not, but at this point I would take all my rifles and send them away to my cousin's up in Maine or something. Rifles do not have to be liscenced. Get a reciept that you sold them. If they come to take your rifles, hand over two bee bee guns. With a grim face. As though that's what you meant all along.

Yes, you need an attorney. Like Sonesta. Too bad she's in Texas, however, you might get some legal advice from her. She may really have something to say to you, and you never know if she has a contact for you.

And last, if you had been filing complaints, and had put a restraining order on them long ago, this would be a different kettle of fish now.

If you feel threatened, that is legitimate, and you have no reason not to try to get legal protection! If the law refused, then you would have THAT on record. Please stop being a victim and do what is right for you and your property and animals, no matter what you project MIGHT be the outcome. Just do it - Go to the law and file a complaint. And get rid of the guns until this whole thing is blown over.

That's where my directions would be headed.

gieriscm
Apr. 24, 2011, 10:24 PM
"I have asked you to keep your dogs at home, my entire flock of chickens were killed last sunday, and if your dogs come up here again, I am shooting them."
You forgot what the third S stands for...

Catersun
Apr. 24, 2011, 10:32 PM
*sigh* Uncomfortably Polite does not include, "if your dogs come over here again I'm going to shoot them" in the Catersun dictionary of how to deal with crappy neighbors.... that would be an unstated understanding.... No threats, no warning needed. Simple signs that there is more lying under the surface than appears.

The right thing to do would have been to get on the phone, call AC or 911 or non emergency number if you have it and request police as there were agressive dogs on your property. THEN, have an attorney send them a letter stating your rights as a landowner with livestock and what they are should any dog harrase livestock and then what the law is and punishment should the dogs come over and harm a person. There is no way to take that as a threat and no way to misrepresent printed word.

You missed the SHUTUP part of SSS.... it's not just a shutup AFTER you shoot the animal.. you shutup BEFORE you shoot the animal so no one thinks to look at you when the animal is gone.

I 10th the suggestion that you need to get an attorny NOW, and DO NOT FOR ANY REASON speak to them at all!!!! and yes, Documenting Sucks, but it has to be done. The legal system is not about What you Know... it's about What you can PROVE.

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 10:40 PM
Ok, I cannot get rid of the guns. If I do, I was told that the police will follow up and retrieve them. That was my first thought, since the guns are mostly sentimental. If I do get rid of them, I will make more trouble for myself.

Next, I have already emailed my attorney and hope to hear from in the morning, and pray he is not away on vacation week(school vaca this week).

Yes, I did order the cameras.

I think in hindsight for anyone going through this.
Although, I like our police chief, he really just shook his head a lot and said, call us if there are any problems. Well, and I did tell him this, I am not that kind of person...I don't call. Some of the police know me, since I live next to a college, and well, yes, you can imagine some of the things kids do to private property. I was generally tolerant, and more a door mat then I should have been. So, many of the officers know I will just shrug things off.

Anyhow, my comment is this. If anyone is going through a hard time with a neighbor, etc, ask the police to do mediation or to allow you to come to the station to 'talk' about the concerns both parties have.
Actually, the officer who came the night of the slaughter suggested that.
I wish the police chief had last fall.

Anyhow, this is now going to be in my lawyer's hands.

And, lastly, the landlord is not interested in selling...I offered him what he paid for the place in the height of the market, and lastly he doesn't care...he told me its too hard to find tenants, and he would not say a thing to them.
He is a landlord for college housing too, and I don't think he cares one way or another what damage they cause.

Katerine, that is a good point if they approach me to pull out my phone and call 911.

Do cops ever get sick of this stuff? I mean do they get ticked off at people crying wolf? Not that I am anywhere near doing that, but you have to wonder how they deal with it.
I guess I was brought up to get along and when you don't then to MYOB. Although, I don't think the level of intrusiveness was ever like what I am experiencing. Just simpler stuff of not trimming the bushes.

fivehorses
Apr. 24, 2011, 10:52 PM
Yes, I did forget the s part of sss. I really do not want to shoot someone's dogs, but I did want them to think that if their dogs kept coming up here, then it might happen and I was preparing to take responsibility and do that, especially if they came into the barnyard area where my goat is.

I mean if some farmer told me that, you'd be damn sure I'd be keeping my dogs on a leash. Just like a hunter has the right to shoot a dog chasing deer. You take precautions.

Well, regardless, its done.
Also, the sss cannot be done here. We are very close proximity, and they see their dogs come up here. So, like me with the chickens, they'd know the dogs were done in up here, plus they'd hear it and most likely see it, just like I know the chickens were killed by their dogs.

Its not like the dogs go out to my back pastures(thankfully), but they come into my front ones along side the neighbors house and my house and barns.

rustbreeches
Apr. 24, 2011, 11:31 PM
How do the police know what guns you have? Did you admit to them what you own? Please get a lawyer tomorrow morning and start looking out for yourself. Call the police every time you have the dogs on your place. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Go in and file some kind of order or complaint. Did they really get a restraining order against you? Or just talk to the police. Get a restraining order against them if they haven't already started proceedings.

howardh
Apr. 25, 2011, 07:08 AM
Well, since you are moving I would just LAY LOW. They are idiots, will ALWAYS be idiots. At least you can see the end. Don't get any more chickens. And idiot children can be the most evil of all.

Shoot the dogs with rock salt. When I had chickens I think every dog in the neighborhood killed my birds and I have nice neighbors! It was amazing how stupid people are. Comments such as "he is a bird dog" and I knew the coyotes were killing your chickens but they had pups in the back of our property and we loved to watch them!" GRRRR

My father in law is an attorney and he said PROPERTY disputes and bad neighbors make family disputes pale in comparison.

I am pretty certain that if you buy cameras they will be stolen or broken instantly....

One nasty solution would be to put out a bunch of rotting meat or guts, let the dogs eat it and go home and vomit all over their house! My stupid neighbor left the guttings of a deer kill out in his yard once and every dog in the neighborhood was wretching up guts! HEY???? Maybe he planned that????:eek:

monalisa
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:16 AM
You need to post the following sign on your fence for the dog owners to see

IF YOU CAN READ THIS SIGN, YOU ARE IN RANGE

monalisa
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:20 AM
Sometimes the only way to deal with a real a____ is to be a bigger a_________. Sad but true.

We had a really bad neighbor in Maryland. He started dumping all of his crap right on the property line, so we would see it every time we drove into our house. He had about 8 acres so it was clear what he was trying to do.

So we started stealing it. And you know what, in a few days it was all moved! Problem solved.

Zu Zu
Apr. 25, 2011, 09:24 AM
BECAUSE OF THE VARIABLES
AND HAVING GONE THROUGH THIS TYPE OF :eek: DANGEROUS SITUATION

I BELIEVE ONE MUST CHANGE THEIR "THINKING" NOW TO INSTEAD OF KEEPING DOGS OFF PROPERTY AS:

DOGS ARE GOING TO RETURN :yes:
NEIGHBORS ARE GOING TO ALLOW THEM OR SAY IT WAS ACCIDENTAL :yes:

PROOF OF AGGRESSIVE DOG IS= EYE WITNESS DOG WITH ANIMAL'S BLOODY LEG IN MOUTH + VIDEO + COP STANDING THERE :eek:

THINK NOW OF CATCHING DOG ( DANGEROUS) SO MUST BE TRAPPED AND THEN DISPOSED OF ...

SAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TO ANYONE AS THEY WILL BLAME YOU WHEN DOGS DISAPPEAR ..

THUS I REITERATE ... TRAP THEN

S-S-S ............................... BE SMART AND CAREFUL ~~~~~~~

THE POLICE ARE NOT ALWAYS YOUR FRIEND ..... IMHO
COURT SYSTEM TAKE TOO LONG ~ RESULTS MAKE NEIGHBORS EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE AND FURIOUS ~
TOO MUCH AT STAKE

SO VERY SORRY YOU ARE GOING THROUGH THIS ... A "NO WIN" = NO NEED TO ASK ME HOW I KNOW ..

TRULY BELIEVE ~~ YOU MUST BE PRO-ACTIVE IN RIDDING YOURSELF OF THE DOGS SO INSTEAD OF KEEPING THEM OUT ( AS YOU CAN NOT BE THERE 24/7) THIN IN TERMS OF BAITING TRAPS TO CATCH..


AGAIN ~~ GOOD LUCK ~ BE CAREFUL AND BE SMART ~~ PROTECT YOUR ANIMALS NO ONE ELSE WILL !!


*****ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO SHOOT DOGS JUST RE-LOCATE MAKE A PLAN ~ POINT IS TO GET DOGS OUT OF THE AREA

"S" CAN STAND FOR SHIP OUT !

RougeEmpire
Apr. 25, 2011, 10:56 AM
I totally agree that the police are not always your friend and the court system can be sketchy at best. Good luck to you!

ReSomething
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:12 AM
I hate pointing this out, but if it has been your plan to move now is not the time to have a documented neighbor problem. You'll have to disclose it if it is bad enough. It may not be a huge negative for the right people but it does lower your potential buyer pool.

I'm going to wish you that whatever develops it ends up creating a peaceable outcome that lets you move on happily.

asb_own_me
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:24 AM
How do the police know what guns you have? Did you admit to them what you own?

This was exactly what I was wondering. Most folks don't know their own ass from their face, let alone a rifle from a BB gun from a pistol. IF they come looking for guns, hand them a BB gun and laugh at the moronic neighbors who felt oh-so threatened.

AnotherRound
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:30 AM
I agree with the last poster. If you are moving, just lay low and move. I forgot you were moving. When are you moving?

I do believe that if the lady files a restraining order that she may shoot herself in the foot, so to speak - if she has a restraining order out on you, she cannot harrass you - if her dogs come onto her property, she can be seen as harrassing you.

Most the time, if it comes to court, the judge will make a restraining order mutual, and so before it comes to that, you should without fail file a restraining order on her, right away, yourself. This it to protect you from her harrassment and retalitation. You ahve already been harrassed, and your livestock killed by agressive dogs, you yourself intimidated by agressive dogs and you feel threatened. Just go file it. If you don't, you are just opening yourself up to being the one who looks bad, as there is no record of you taking any action about her supposed intimidation and harrassment, and I mean it, think about it, no legal record of them harrassing you.

The first thing a judge is going to ask you is, and remember, if they file you will come before the judge and he will ask you what is going on, and if you made the threats and why, the first thing he will say is well, if they harrassed you and their dogs killed your livestock, why didn't you file a restraining order? If you don't, he's not going ot take you seriously. You don't get justice if you don't follow the protocols, which starts with a restraining order. You don't have to have a police report to file one, you just go down to the court house and fill out the form and hand it over to the clerk. Done and done.

If your answer to him is, well, I don't like to do things like that, then you look ineffectual and the judge's hands are tied, because it looks like you weren't really harrassed.

File the restraining order to protect yourself. If you don't, the neighbors will be worse. If you are afraid of retaliation, then they are in the wrong if they do that with a restraining order, but if you don't have a restraining order, then its just he said she said, because with a restraining order on them from you, it will be illegal for them to retaliate, once the restraining order is in place. They will have a judge say to them that if there is any report of them harrassing you, talking to you, loosing their dogs onto your property, withether you are home or not, they will be arrested. And vice versa, by the way.

Hopefully that is clear enough to you that you will do the right thing. Other than that, don't say a word to them and pack and go.

TheJenners
Apr. 25, 2011, 11:52 AM
Do cops ever get sick of this stuff? I mean do they get ticked off at people crying wolf? Not that I am anywhere near doing that, but you have to wonder how they deal with it.
Yes. But we also hate dealing with nuisances, too. Have you been served your order yet? If not, hie thee to the court house and file yours. In some states you can include animals, surveilling, anything "deemed harassing or threatening to the protected person," etc.

rustbreeches
Apr. 25, 2011, 12:06 PM
This was exactly what I was wondering. Most folks don't know their own ass from their face, let alone a rifle from a BB gun from a pistol. IF they come looking for guns, hand them a BB gun and laugh at the moronic neighbors who felt oh-so threatened.

I was thinking those big ass water guns from Target! Yeah, they are lethal!!!:lol:

fivehorses
Apr. 25, 2011, 07:06 PM
Ok, somewhat of an update.
I did document! afterall. I have been keeping a sort of word doc adding to it as time evolved, such as blah blah date, and then writing down a narrative of what happened in pretty good detail.

So, this morning I put it into bullet format, less narrative, and it was 4 pages!!! of stuff. I then went thru my pics and have pics of their dogs from january on...plus one of the dog growling at me in my car. So, as much as I hated doing it, I guess I did a pretty good job keeping track...thank God for computers!

I gave those to the police chief. I asked him if he would issue them a summons for the dogs. He explained he did not want to do that since it would seem like retribution. Ok.

I then asked so what happens to her for filing a false report. I basically got a we have known you over 20 years, you are a straight shooter and have always been an honest person. He evaded my question about the false report, but told me she was down in the am, and pressing for action since she used all the buzz words, very afraid for my life, and for my children. She(me) is crazy and going to kill us. So, he was aware that she was using the lingo that was needed.
he said the witness weighed heavily since he was not blood to any of us and he corroborated my story.

So, I am out of town most of the day, come home late afternoon, and outside are 5 kids bouncing on the trampoline, whistling on some whistle making a ton of noise, and I am thinking, this is behavior of someone in fear for their life?

Wow, I bring my horses in when I am not home, so I must be very fearful! I guess we all manifest our fear differently. But really, don't you think if you really are in fear, then you would not invite your friends kids over, but ask your friend's kids if they could play at their house, if their is such a scary person threatening you next door????

I don't believe the neighbors are stupid, but this sure seems odd to me and contradictory to their statement.

I did videotape the kids bouncing and screaming for the police to see when he comes to re interview me.

I have learned a bit today. My lawyer said it is basically go to court, file papers, people break the restraining law, file and go to court again, and he said its a lot of money, and no relief. Am I happy with that, not really. So, I am calling my other lawyer and asking for a referral to see how they might approach things.

What the neighbor wants to charge me with, via the police, is criminal threatening. The police investigate, and if warranted, take it to the county prosecutor. I was pretty much told that there was a lot of evidence supporting me.

I am really disgusted with the fact someone can lie and cause such havoc. I am a pretty righteous person, and I really do want to pursue after all is said and done that the neighbor has to face some kind of false report to the police. I think that is pretty low, never mind unethical.

So...I will most likely be re interviewed, which is fine. I also want to play the video for them. And when, not if, the dogs come up here again, my video camera is at the ready and I will insist that it is not fair to allow her to file a report against me, but do nothing to them when they clearly break the law and I have evidence.
I really don't care if it is perceived as retribution or not. They are breaking the law, repeatedly and just getting a conversation.

I do not want to be drawn into their crisis oriented lifestyle. I am not going to go out of my way to be a jerk. I would not have a reputation like I do, and in this situation, it most likely will help me.

I will repeat, I must live in a rose colored house, I really just cannot believe how awful these people can be, and how little protection I have. I think those of us who moob(mind our own business) and have a rotten neighbor are just about out of luck to do a thing about it except to move. Its just not worth it.

I am afraid of these people and what harm they can do to my animals. There is no such thing as a restraining order unless you are or have been intimate, only non intimate type of restraint is criminal(which she is attempting to do) or stalking. So, at least in my state, there is no way you can do a restraining order. I think you can do an injunction to cease a behavior, but as my lawyer said, you spend your life in court, over and over.

I also find it humorous that I am a single woman, and this woman has a husband, three boys, one a teenager, and she is afraid?

Anyhow, thats the latest...as I shake my head and think how sad of a way to spend easter.
I will never ever speak to these people again. I will also as someone said, have my cell phone out to record them approaching me, and then call 911.
they are toxic and because of that, I am afraid of what they might fabricate next.

drewsbadboy
Apr. 25, 2011, 07:43 PM
Wow, Fivehorses. So sorry you have to deal with these people. I can't even begin to imagine how stressful that must be. Hopefully the police will find a solution soon so you can enjoy some peace and quiet.

rmh_rider
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:12 PM
Any dog who does not belong to me, or my *nice* neighbor next door is fair game and will be shot on the spot.

I have mesh fencing. And if some dog gets under or over or whatever the mesh fencing it is fair game to lose it's life.

We have had neighbor dogs trespassing. No more. Yes, I have chased them off, but didn't work. So they are shot upon sight. They killed one of my dogs, and so now I have a zero tolerance policy.

If the neighbor had fenced his dogs the dogs would not have come to any mishap. Loose dogs usually lose their lives on the road, or elsewhere. I am very pro leash law and fence law for all livestock and this includes cats too. Which we will shoot also on sight btw. If they come to our property, they are feral and up to no good. We have foxes, so no need for cats. And the foxes are never naughty at our place. Love our grey foxes.

Remember:

Good fences, make good neighbors. Good fences, make good neighbors. Good fences, make good neighbors. Good fences, make good neighbors. Good fences, make good neighbors.

JanM
Apr. 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
Are you sure you can't move earlier? I know you hate to be seen as running away, but there is obviously no solution that will work against these idiots. And I find it cowardly of the police chief (or sheriff) to say he believes you but won't file charges against her for making a false report, and I see it as his attempt to get you to shutup and live with the situation. For whatever reason the local law doesn't seem to want to do anything about these people. I wonder if there's some kind of family connection or social connection with some big wig? There's probably no way to know, but I suspect there's more here than just rotten neighbors and lack of police help. And did you ask him about the statement the officer made about confiscating your guns? I think I would resume target practice regularly if your lawyer agrees, and especially ask him about the confiscation issue.

MunchkinsMom
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:42 AM
I wonder how much one of these cost:

http://www.taser.com/products/wildlife/wildlife-taser#benefits

I really don't have any other advice, just wanted to add my sympathy and outrage at your situation.

TheJenners
Apr. 26, 2011, 11:38 AM
Well, I know the X26 is about...ummm...$1300 per? Spendy, anyways. There are other products marketed to runners/joggers/hikers that are less expensive (sprays, noise deterrents, etc) if she wants to go the non-lethal route.

birdsong
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:00 PM
NEVER get into spitting matches with crazy people...ever....no matter what!
Forget all that about target practice, etc. Move sooner if you can and try to spend your mental and physical time doing something constructive and positive...otherwise you will hurt yourself with all this worry!

Is it too late now for mediation?

asb_own_me
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:11 PM
And I find it cowardly of the police chief (or sheriff) to say he believes you but won't file charges against her for making a false report, and I see it as his attempt to get you to shutup and live with the situation. For whatever reason the local law doesn't seem to want to do anything about these people. I wonder if there's some kind of family connection or social connection with some big wig? There's probably no way to know, but I suspect there's more here than just rotten neighbors and lack of police help. And did you ask him about the statement the officer made about confiscating your guns? I think I would resume target practice regularly if your lawyer agrees, and especially ask him about the confiscation issue.

This.

These are the two things that I'm particularly concerned with - their lack of enforcing YOUR side of the situation, and their threat to confiscate (I believe, illegally) your guns). Did you discuss the gun situation with your attorney?

birdsong
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:16 PM
Is it the job of the Chief to determine if her statements were false...or a Judge?

You have to think this through without the emotions ...or you will waste your mental energy and be without the direction you need to work through this nightmare.

Alagirl
Apr. 26, 2011, 12:38 PM
Good Fences make for good neighbors (http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/dpw/images/2/Governors%20animal%20stockade%20fence%20P6200005.J PG)

I think you could upgrade to this (http://www.toysoldiers.com/products-soldiers/images/johnjenkins/stockade.jpg)

feather river
Apr. 26, 2011, 01:55 PM
shoot one or two of them next time they come onto your place. tell the neighbor and the cops that the dogs were a menace and you feared for your safety. the guy will get the message. you need to become scarier than he is.:mad:

LauraKY
Apr. 26, 2011, 03:09 PM
shoot one or two of them next time they come onto your place. tell the neighbor and the cops that the dogs were a menace and you feared for your safety. the guy will get the message. you need to become scarier than he is.:mad:

Really? In my experience, escalation is not a good idea if the neighbor is truly a whack job.

Good fences and or guard dogs.

fivehorses
Apr. 26, 2011, 04:42 PM
It's true, escalation is not a good idea.
I think in hindsight, it is unfortunate that these neighbors haven't been called on their bad behavior...dogs at large, noise ordinance, etc.

I don't know about the rest of you, but would bet, if you have a horse testing its boundaries, very quickly you need to let them know they don't go there.

These neighbors have been testing the limits...knowing I am alone and their only neighbor, and when I have called the cops(paintball gun incident) nothing happened, cops didn't talk to them since I could not prove it, and dogs at large last week, they got a chat.

I think things would be a whole lot different if the police and either done a mediation or intervened.

No matter what, the whole thing just stinks. At this point I am screwed no matter what imo. If the police charge me with criminal threatening, its a big bite to defend myself...and they get to have the state pay for it. If the police don't charge me...I will have some kind of hell to pay.
They have clearly demonstrated over time, anything I do within my rights, they come back tenfold to harm me.

classicsporthorses
Apr. 26, 2011, 06:29 PM
I feel for you. What a dilema but agree with other's posts. I am sure you have, but look to see what the 'leash laws' are in your area. More ammo (pardon the pun) for court.

We had a problem last year with our neighbor's dog coming over at night and getting into our dog's food that was in the garage and wandering the property. My dogs would go nuts barking each night until one night I finally saw it was in fact the neighbor's dog.

I went over to the neighbor's and stated "neighbor, I need you to keep your dog either chained up or in the house there is a leash law in NY! I also said, if my dogs are out and your dog comes over on our property I cannot guarantee the outcome-we had a Great Dane(male), Pit mix (female) and Jug-he's just the emergency back up dog.

Well thing went fine until not long after on a hot summer night, I had left the inside door open on the sunroom where we keep the dogs at night, for some more ventilation for them. The storm door was shut and locked.

Ellie, our pit mix saw the neighbor's dog and broke through the storm door screen, followed by the great Dane and Jug I think. You can't even imagine the noise of a dog being attacked. We bolted out of bed and as we got outside, the neighbor dog got loose from their grips and took off. He's still alive but he's never returned. I am sure he had wounds but the neighbor has never said a word.

Your case is a bit different but possibly a water gun or air gun/pistol would suffice if the dogs come on the property, or you can always borrow my pit mix. :-)

MunchkinsMom
Apr. 26, 2011, 07:44 PM
What about a Super Soaker full of diluted ammonia or something along those lines? At least then the dogs would learn that your property is not such a fun place to hang out, and the neighbors might never know (well, the ammonia smell might be a clue).

JanM
Apr. 26, 2011, 08:45 PM
How about canned wasp spray? It shoots very far, is very cheap, and it's legal in all fifty states and Canada. I bet it stings like crazy to get that in the eyes, and I've successfully used it from at least 30' away from a nest. They even sell it at the grocery store, and it is getting to be wasp season. Actually, I've been killing wasps for months, so it probably is in your area too.

deltawave
Apr. 26, 2011, 09:48 PM
In the end, her accusation is just that: an accusation. Hearsay. You have a credible witness who heard the conversation in question. If it should ever come down to standing in front of a judge (believe me, that's the last in a LONG series of steps) you might be surprised at what a very, very low tolerance they have for bullsh*t.

Time for a lawyer, yes. Very sorry for your continuing troubles. I can't imagine how stressful this must be. :no:

fivehorses
Apr. 26, 2011, 10:21 PM
Ok, spent the evening being interviewed. This is really for me kind of upsetting.
Some people may not find being interviewed for a serious charge disturbing, but I do. It is even more disturbing, when you know the person filing the accusation lied. I think that is what bothers me the most.

So, no charges will be filed. However, I am sure I will have some kind of payback. Its a total lose lose situation. Charge me, and neighbors would be happy, but I won't. Don't charge me, and neighbors will find a way to punish me. All for what, why? Because he lost his job, they lost their house and are angry and I am a good target?

Meantime, all my documentation and pictures with dates of neighbors dogs in my fields and yards are ignored. Granted, some of these go back to last fall but are current pictures.

I think there is something about allowing a problem to occur and if you ignore it, then its called something latin and is a legal term for not dealing with an issue and by your acquiesnce of allowing it to continue, it nullifies your claim....anyone lawyers out there who can id that legal term?

I don't get it...how the law operates. We have ordinaces and leash laws, yet you provide the evidence and nothing is done?

Deltawave...I did contact my lawyer, and his response was posted. Basically, its tons of money, lots of court and nothing really gets resolved unless you are dealing with reasonable people who want to follow the law. I am not dealing with reasonable or honest people. Just money I would spend down the tube, and an honest lawyer who tells me that.

katarine
Apr. 26, 2011, 10:24 PM
GET A LAWYER.

Ghazzu
Apr. 26, 2011, 11:01 PM
How about canned wasp spray? It shoots very far, is very cheap, and it's legal in all fifty states and Canada. I bet it stings like crazy to get that in the eyes, and I've successfully used it from at least 30' away from a nest. They even sell it at the grocery store, and it is getting to be wasp season. Actually, I've been killing wasps for months, so it probably is in your area too.

More than likely, it would cause blindness if the dog were hit in the eyes with it.

JanM
Apr. 27, 2011, 06:54 AM
OK-so wasp spray is a bad idea. They do make pepper spray guns that shoot very far, but they might not be legal where you live, and may not be legal to carry in your car either.

I think we're back to ammonia in a water pistol.

It's so frustrating to see local justice operate too. It's not what you did or what actually happened, but who you know, and what mood the local authorities are in that day. And don't think circumstances made people like your neighbors jerks, because people like that always act like that (probably why they lost everything), and always have an excuse for why the world is mistreating them. Entitled jerks are everywhere apparently, and they enjoy terrorizing others for their own warped amusement.

And mediation only works when both parties are reasonable people, and the neighbors certainly aren't reasonable.

Gloria
Apr. 27, 2011, 09:34 AM
Get media involved.

The "shut up" part of the whole SSS is shot and your neighbor has become your enemy. The only way you can get some kind of upperhand is to become a bigger pain than they are.

Lawyers are too expensive and not worth the trouble you will go through in my view so unless it really is necessary i wouldn't bother..

Valentina_32926
Apr. 27, 2011, 09:45 AM
Talk to a lawyer - sounds like slander to me (our neighbors who are drug dealers have done the same sort of thing).

Have you contacted animal control about their threatening dogs? We flat out told our neighbors if your dogs come on our property they will be shot, and I carry a gun so I can use it if their dog ever threatens me when entering/leaving our property again. You have a witness and they most likely have a history of lieing, so don't get worked up about the issue, instead be proactive and get the best lawyer (in this field) you can to help you in this issue.

Even if you don't have camers carry one in your car (and a gun) for taking pictures of their dogs on your property and then shooting the dogs on your property. Hot wire between properties to give neighbors a nice sting and your horses away from your fence so they can't harm them.

People like this love to threaten - you MUST stand up for your rights because they will not change and will only continue to bully you if you don't stand up for yourself.

5
Apr. 27, 2011, 09:49 AM
It's spring right?
Just about the time of year to change the antifreeze in your car from winter to summer.

SmartAlex
Apr. 27, 2011, 10:16 AM
sneaky sneaky

hundredacres
Apr. 27, 2011, 10:31 AM
fivehorses...no words of wisdom (I'm overwhelmed for you just reading this)...I just wanted to add my support.

dacasodivine
Apr. 27, 2011, 11:48 AM
Call the DA. If that doesn't work maybe state police? Newspaper is also good. I don't know how small or large but you might even be able to write your own article with pictures of the dogs on your property.

Your problem is you tried to be a good neighbor and backed down giving them more power.

I moved into a neighborhood with a bully right across the street. No one would stand up to him. He shot my dog for some imagined slight then had the nerve to come over and apologize. He said he had no choice as the dog was killing his cat. That dog was 21 pounds and terrified of cats. He would literally run yelping away from cats if they looked at him.

Anyway, I became his worst enemy. His horses and pit bull frequently got out. The pit bull would come into our yard and growl at us. His horses tore up our lawn. He got a lot of visits from animal control and a couple from cps and the cops. All legitimate calls.

He had his wife tell my neighbor that if I didn't stop, he would kill all my animals. He never did and moved within a year of us moving in.

This is a guy who actually shot across the road into the yard of my immediate next door neighbor. He shot and wounded one of their dogs. He then went over to talk to the neighbor with a knife! Neighbor backed down and did nothing!

I had to call the DA on another neighbor who let their pet steer roam loose. AC said there was nothing they could do and even threatened to charge me if I kept calling, suggesting I was making false reports. So, I told the DA I had video of the steer running across the road not long before a school bus full of children went by and that AC wouldn't do anything. Completely true! Next thing you know, that steer was fenced in.

foggybok
Apr. 27, 2011, 12:17 PM
It's spring right?
Just about the time of year to change the antifreeze in your car from winter to summer.

I'm not sure if you are serious, but please don't ever do this. Would be much better to just shoot the dogs. Antifreeze poisoning is a slow and painful way to die. The dogs don't deserve this treatment.

I have also tried to help people who have accidently poisoned their own animals this way...very sad...

Joanne
Apr. 27, 2011, 12:30 PM
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000071NUS/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=10550510739&ref=pd_sl_1hj2f364nd_b

and then daub some of this on the sprinkler head before turning the water on

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Tinks174-10-Skunk-Scent/745931.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3Dskunk%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26x%3D21%26y%3D11&Ntt=skunk&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

Monica67
Apr. 27, 2011, 12:36 PM
OP, I feel your pain with the crappy neighbors. Hopefully you will be able to move soon or they will be gone...

It is easy to sit here and say "shoot the dogs" or "call the media".

Reality is it sucks to be the single woman living next door with no support or protection against any type of retaliation. I have been there and one of the happiest days of my life was when my trashy neighbors disappeared into the night and abandoned their house.

LauraKY
Apr. 27, 2011, 12:43 PM
It's spring right?
Just about the time of year to change the antifreeze in your car from winter to summer.

That's just plain wrong and disgusting on so many levels.:eek:

What is wrong with you?

FatCatFarm
Apr. 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
I didn't read this whole thread but having had similar problems with other people's dogs, problem dogs are shot if they come onto our property threatening our livestock. End of story. You are entitled to defend your property and your livestock is property. But if you resort to poison, that's animal cruelty. So just shoot the dogs if the the owner won't contain them and if you can't catch them and have animal control pick them up. But don't stoop to the lower level of poison.

I have 8 dogs myself and if any of mine got off our property and were killing the neighbors chickens, whatever, I wouldn't blame them a bit for shooting the offending dog(s). I love dogs, but this is an aspect of their nature that I just don't care for and cannot condone. But I cannot condone poisoning either. Not to mention the great possibility of collateral damage to other animals besides the offending dogs. Hope the situation improves.

JanM
Apr. 27, 2011, 05:43 PM
Actually, I know it sounds awful, but it is the time of year people change antifreeze, or other fluids in their cars; plus many older, poorly maintained cars leak constantly so there are regular hazards in any neighborhood. So car fluids, spoiled garbage, road accidents, and predatory animals are many of the reasons that animals who are allowed to roam loose die. My former neighbors (two houses ago) had an older beaten up pickup truck that they parked in front of my house, and the lousy thing leaked oil and antifreeze like a sieve. I wonder how many neighborhood animals that roamed at night died from the truck leaking, or how many the idiot driver ran over driving like a maniac?

Where I used to live the people catty-cornered behind me (and I suspect big time hoarders behind the privacy fence) let their almost feral cats breed endlessly, and I knew the two or so times of year when a few half-grown kittens appeared that they would soon disappear. All but two kittens, and eventually the mother cat disappeared due to many of the known hazards. The good news is the two surviving kittens were captured, neutered and given new homes by a neighbor who was moving. Some people are just bad pet owners and don't even care that their animals are at risk when they roam.

sketcher
Apr. 27, 2011, 06:14 PM
However, I am sure I will have some kind of payback. Its a total lose lose situation. Charge me, and neighbors would be happy, but I won't. Don't charge me, and neighbors will find a way to punish me. All for what, why? Because he lost his job, they lost their house and are angry and I am a good target?


You have to just stop engaging these people. There is no other way around it. This would not have escalated to the point it has if they had not been able to get a reaction from you. Just ignore them. Seriously. They might escalate a little for a short time - like a toddler, they have learned that any action gets a reaction and will likely up the ante as you have cooperated in the past by responding. Stop responding. Bite your tongue, ignore them, do not react.

We have a neighbor who we have learned has tangled with every other person who has lived in this house. Believe me, she has tried to provoke us numerous times. We refuse to engage on any level. We ignore her. We're not friendly or social. We don't make polite chat. We behave as if they do not exist. It has worked thus far, despite the fact that there have been numerous occasions where I have fantasized about going over there, knocking on the door and punching her right in the face. But those moments are transient and certainly would not be worth the aggravation and stress we would bring onto our lives by arguing with her. At least her property is neat, her kids are quiet and well behaved. If she were real trash demonstrating really unbalanced behavior,I would work even harder to keep my distance.

Dog problem? Her dog would have quietly gone for a ride 8 towns over. Real dog problem where my animals were being harassed, injured or killed? If I couldn't relocate the dog,the I would poison it and shut up. Nasty antagonizing behavior over the fence-I would be polite, reasonable and unemotional as I was walking away and refusing to engage with them. Even if I had to go in the house and take it out on my dog later. ;) That is what they want. The fight. Don't give them the satisfaction.

That doesn't mean that you still don't need to document, put a camera or whatever to protect yourself but really think about how serious the individual acts are in themselves before you respond to anything at all.

AnotherRound
Apr. 27, 2011, 07:50 PM
I do have to say that if I had this problem and had tried to talk to them and gotten no where, I would have documented and then one of the dogs would have gone for a long ride. Eh, my conscience might not have let me do that, because its scary for the dog.

Hm. What if I started feeding them? Keeping them at my house, making them bond with me, always always having some meat (on the other side of the property from the chickens) and then making them mine. I can train a dog, if he bonds with me. Even if he went home to their house sometimes, I could make them all become mine and the only way they could stop that would be to keep.them.in.the.house.

Heh heh heh.

cnvh
Apr. 27, 2011, 07:56 PM
What Sketcher said.

fivehorses
Apr. 27, 2011, 08:39 PM
I am not engaging these people. 4 times contacting them in 9 months does not constitute engaging them. In hindsight, my not contacting the police and requesting the noise ordinance or dog ordinance be enforced, has encouraged the neighbors to keep pushing. Read past posts about these people.
The kids are unsupervised, and the parents encourage jerk behavior...play the juke box, scream, build a tree fort on someone else's property, you are entitled.

I can understand the behavior of not responding, thus you are not an audience, the person gets bored. this is not these peoples modus operandi. They are just plain losers who are jerks and do not consider how any of their actions might affect others.

Basically, these people are rude and inconsiderate. Like to be loud, like to shoot bb guns and paint ball guns at my horses, and just be jerks. I bring the horses in now, because twice when I have left, I come home to panicked horses. I have played the don't feed the trolls, and it hasn't worked.

I also went the lawyer route...its thousands of dollars, going to court, getting an injunction, which they break, and going back to court. repeat often. Really not interested.

I would not poison the dogs...I also don't want to have it backfire and my own dog is poisoned or some poor coyote or fox.

I am just waiting which won't be hard for them to slack off, and let their dogs come on over. I will at that point demand the police issue a summons, and if not, will then call the media to do a story about lousy neighbors.

Any noise after 9pm when noise ordinance is in effect, will also expected to be enforced.

I also love to target practice and have many friends who do as well. Also, one of my workers has a boom box in her car that in the past I did not allow her to play...oh well, she likes it, not breaking the law...go for it. (I just will leave cause I can't stand that bass booming away. LOL).

I am not going out of my way to be a jerk, but if the women who work for me want to go for it, be my guest. I am a very considerate neighbor, but no more. If they can play their boombox that I have to listen to...well, then they will have to listen to our boombox.

The system fails people like me. Also, common courtesy and consideration fail these people. They are losers, their rudeness only affects me. No other neighbors close enough by. Cops are not able to enforce only under certain conditions, ie noise after 9pm.

Next party, my generator might have to run, or the tractor. Of course, at 9pm, I will shut it off and if there is noise on their property...calling the cops.

Zarafia
Apr. 27, 2011, 08:47 PM
Sounds like you are truly at your wit's end :(.
One thought that hasn't yet been expressed here is this; could you go to your neighbors and plainly tell them that you are moving in a few months and beg them to contain their dogs just that long?
I don't know what I would do, but if all other roads are leading you to no where or disaster.....

fivehorses
Apr. 27, 2011, 09:11 PM
The week before when the dogs trapped me in my car. I called the wife(who I thought was the more reasonable one) and left a message about how uncomfortable I was with the dogs coming over...a few days before that I had asked the husband...and that was his response to build a better fence.
then the chicken slaughter.

So, no, I will never talk to these people again. I have...4 times, and each time the response has been anger and a fight. Ok, well, I get it...people are not reasonable, and talking to the wall gets the same response, er without the angry outbursts and attacks.

They really are dysfunctional and angry at the world...and I am a great target.
So, yes, I agree Zarafia, talking to people who are reasonable is the way to go. But when people are not reasonable, then its time to assess the situation.

I tried to get the cops involved, and they didn't respond. I have put them on notice...if I call you, and I have proof, you need to do something. If not, then, you can bet, I will at that point have a lawsuit against the town for failing to enforce the law.
I also will be moving shortly after that, because I also am quite aware of subjective/political decisions...and do not want to become a target. Cops have lots of leeway in their job. Its a small town, and currently the cops like me. If I start becoming demanding(although rightfully so), I might not be so well liked.

I have a beautiful piece of property, but find no enjoyment living here. I also am afraid for my horses and animals when I am not home.

It is what it is. I have accepted that. The cops are limited what they can do. However, they have been given proof, and did nothing because they didn't want to rock the boat.
Well, next occurance, that reason is not viable. I want a response.

Zarafia
Apr. 27, 2011, 09:17 PM
That really and truly sucks. I am so sorry. Just try and hang in there.

Gloria
Apr. 27, 2011, 10:05 PM
That really sucks. I wish we lived in an ideal world, where, it would be easy to humanely euthanize some losers and spay/geld those who have no business passing their genes down the line. sigh....

colorfan
Apr. 27, 2011, 10:35 PM
I am so sorry. Several times I lost chicks and hens to dogs or the foxes, the last time I lost 50 exotic chicks that I raised in the house, first night I put them out in their 'dogproof' pen they were are killed.

Dec 25 several years ago I went out in the morning to check our 4-H sheep. Two of the ewes we had had for four years already, raised from weaned lambs, halter broke, led like puppies.

Dogs had got in the pen, ripped up the sheep bad, all the sheep were still living. I had to put several of them down.

Got nothing against dogs, just the people who don't keep them home.

Kate66
Apr. 28, 2011, 12:34 AM
I am so so sorry you are going through all this crap, sounds just awful.

My farmer neighbor shot my dog. My dog never worried cattle and we have horses and cattle, just like he did. I admit the dog shouldn't have been out, he had worked out how to actually climb (not jump, but climb) a netted farm gate, to get out. Our entire acreage has 4' noclimb fence, and he learned to climb! The farmer shooting him had nothing to do with the dog though, it had to do with a personal grudge against me because of a perceived slight over us buying a piece of land that he had cattle in (that he didn't own!). I can't believe he did it. Dog survived, as did my feelings toward the old b*****d that used to live next door (but has since died).