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View Full Version : 1965 Grand National- JAY TRUMP!!



ASB Stars
Apr. 19, 2011, 04:47 PM
This old movie is great- I want to know who the horse is who lost his jockey, and then led a bunch of the way! No casualties in this, I don't think.

You can pick Jay Trump out fairly early- even before the announcer includes him- by his distinctive facial markings.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfsvoyUo7c

Hounds
Apr. 19, 2011, 05:56 PM
Hey, thanks, ASB Stars! I've always been a huge Jay Trump fan!

ASB Stars
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:00 PM
Me, too!

I got to see him when I was a teenager- he was still amazing!

Hounds
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:03 PM
You lucky duck! I was supposed to see him and he died about three days before I was to drive there. I ended up writing his obituary instead, sadly. But I have a couple of great pictures they sent me! Love him.

chunky munky
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:32 PM
I have a great book which you can most likely find on Amazon about Jay Trump called "The Will to Win" Jane McIlvane with a forward by Dick Francis , published in 1966. Has some great photos and quite a bit of old area horse history around VA and MD.

Kryswyn
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:37 PM
The youngster that was purchased with Jay Trump was a big lovely TB named Avenue Grand. He never made it as a 'chaser as he was not bold. Later in his career he was donated to the Ethel Walker School in CT and I had the pleasure of riding him during the summers at Teela-Wooket in VT.

ASB Stars
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:50 PM
I have a great book which you can most likely find on Amazon about Jay Trump called "The Will to Win" Jane McIlvane with a forward by Dick Francis , published in 1966. Has some great photos and quite a bit of old area horse history around VA and MD.

A really great read. I am on my second copy, as I loaned the first one out, and it vanished!

ASB Stars
Apr. 19, 2011, 06:53 PM
You lucky duck! I was supposed to see him and he died about three days before I was to drive there. I ended up writing his obituary instead, sadly. But I have a couple of great pictures they sent me! Love him.

It was at Winterthur, I think- one of the local race meets, and it was cold out. They had a parade of former steeplechase winners, with jockeys up, in silks and all.

The jockey on Jay Trump had been told to go last, as he was the greatest of the horses they had there, and that big bay- who was probably in his late teens-early twenties- just about pulled that guys arms out. He was lathered, in his winter coat, and he just bounded forward, when he was allowed to come past us.

Just an amazing powerhouse- I can't imagine what he must have been, when he was younger!

btw- you could STILL see the scar on that knee- I swear!

poniesinthenight
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:14 AM
Tommy Compton Smith was Jay Trumps jockey, he trained for the Grand National under the tutelage of Fred Winter for 9 months in the UK, when Jay Trump was shipped over there. I had the honor of working with Freddie who put up a valiant fight for second place to Jay Trump, when he retired. Mr Reg Tweedie was the at that time a private trainer, and it was the consensus of opinion that a private trainer could not compete with the professional boys, I guess he proved them wrong. I believe Richard Dimbleby, a BBC commentator at the time, was part of a personal documentary on the two horses, laying out their history and who and what they had done many weeks BEFORE the race. To me it was almost unbelievable that they had picked these two great horses and then when it came to race day they came in 1st and 2nd. I've only seen that documentary once, it was a copy that the Tweedies had, I would dearly love to see it again, and I know Tommy Compton Smith would. Tommy is confined to a wheelchair after an accident on a young horse in this country, several years ago.

ASB Stars
Apr. 21, 2011, 11:19 AM
Great story- thanks! Where is Tommy located, these days? I had read somewhere about the accident. Imagine all of those big fences, at racing speed, for all that time, and after that, he gets hurt. Just not fair- poor guy!

poniesinthenight
Apr. 22, 2011, 07:26 AM
Tommy lives in MD.

Calamber
Apr. 22, 2011, 10:12 AM
I was told by a an old horseman at Charles Town where Jay Trump came from, that the story of his purchase by Jane McIlvaine is not correct. He was picked out by "one arm" Fenwick, well known Maryland horseman, and then the young rider Tommy Jones got him. There is a better book written by Mr. Winants, regarding the JT's story but I do not think that even contains this story. I respect this old man and I do think he knows what he was talking about as he was there when he was "found" as a "rogue".

Poniesinthenight. Perhaps the Tweedies can be contacted. By the way, Jay Trump is buried at the head of one of the courses at the Kentucky Horse Park. I did not see his grave, but I did see his halter and some paraphenalia that I do not remember, along with this information in the Museum there. It was closing and we were on a cross country moving trip in July of 09, I was very honored to have seen that and to have a conversation with Funny Cide who decidedly did not appreciate my rendition of the Belmont after nodding along with the Kentucky Derby and Preakness calls for which he turned away from his hay and gave his commentary. For my Belmont "story", he turned away in shame and disgust at me for mentioning. I apologized roundly but he would only look out his side window across the field at me as I was walking away and gave me his "heads up, don't be discouraged by setbacks" support as I walked away. I sorely needed that lift as that was the beginning of a very difficult 2 years.

ASB, I cannot watch that race film, horrifying, horses falling all over the place, probably career ending injuries right and left, one jockey lying still under the hedge at about the 15th fence, I do not know how horses did not land on him. And that foppish British voice, "no fallers" then so many you cannot even count, the loose horses jumping with the riders, no outrider to even try and pick any out, crashes everywhere. So, so British and so, so cruel. It is like surviving a charge into arms fire and for what? The horses that survive are truly champions but probably many more, game beautiful horses and people ruined. I used to have a romanticized "National Velvet" notion about this race, no more. I still love Jay Trump, Freddie, Red Rum and all who survived and mourn those who did not. I mostly quietly enjoy the notion that the Queen never won this race, ever.

Hounds
Apr. 22, 2011, 10:42 AM
one jockey lying still under the hedge at about the 15th fence, I do not know how horses did not land on him.

Well, Calamber, take a note: a fallen jockey in a steeplechase often is better off lying still to allow the horses a chance to get around him rather than present a moving target to a field of following horses; that will only make things more dangerous to himself and the horses and riders behind him. It's also difficult to tell in the film exactly where he is in relation to the fence.

As for "foppish British voice" and "so British, so cruel," get over yourself. It's one thing if you're opposed to steeplechasing; you're certainly entitled to your opinion on that score. But do not bring your bigotry over here and expect it to go unanswered.

Calamber
Apr. 22, 2011, 11:15 AM
Well, Calamber, take a note: a fallen jockey in a steeplechase often is better off lying still to allow the horses a chance to get around him rather than present a moving target to a field of following horses; that will only make things more dangerous to himself and the horses and riders behind him. It's also difficult to tell in the film exactly where he is in relation to the fence.

As for "foppish British voice" and "so British, so cruel," get over yourself. It's one thing if you're opposed to steeplechasing; you're certainly entitled to your opinion on that score. But do not bring your bigotry over here and expect it to go unanswered.

Bigotry? I suppose you would think dozens of horses and riders injured is just part of the "sport" too then? You are right though, Americans, I am loathe to call them citizens, are equally so with their fascination/obsession with football, which only does not throw animals into the bargain. Sorry, but truth is truth and here in the USA, where freedom of speech is prized but muzzled, I will continue to speak the truth. Where else do you find such a race, who sponsors it and has held it for how many years? Is it in 'not so Great Britain' or not? You call my pointing this out bigotry? Keep those blinders on, I am sure you can find all sorts of rationalizations for supporting this and other equally disgusting "sports". By the way, that poor knocked out jockey was not curled up in a ball to protect himself or his head, he was flat out. I am sure he would have liked to if he could, hopefully he survived this great "game".

Gestalt
Apr. 22, 2011, 01:32 PM
Great run by Jay Trump! My all time favorite is Red Rum, he is the John Henry of Steeplechasing.

Loose horses are so hazardous. I'm always amazed the way they continue to race and jump, especially when in the lead.

JBCool
Apr. 22, 2011, 02:11 PM
Good boy, Jay! I love old videos.

AA Hunter
Apr. 22, 2011, 04:12 PM
I was a teenager when Jay Trump won that race and still remember what a stir it caused even in the non-horsey world. Some time afterwards my parents, who know zero about horses, were visiting friends who took them to a race meet, and Tommy Smith was there--they were thoughtful enough to get his authograph for me--in pencil, on the back of a matchbook! I must still have it somewhere.