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horsing around86
Apr. 11, 2011, 10:36 PM
is it possible to inform a client at our farm that a coworker is acting unethically not only towards her, but another trainer as well without forming a full throttle emotional tornado? a woman was desperately trying to find a home for her horse because her financial circumstances no longer allowed for her to afford him, and offered one of our trainers "x" her saddle in exchange for finding the horse a home. the aforementioned "x" found the horse a home, but one of the other trainers "s", knowing that the owner was hard up for money pressured the owner into selling her the saddle for half of its value knowing that she had a deal with "x" and than proceeded to attempt to sell the saddle to "x" and all of her students for double what she paid for it. "x" wants to let this slide but i feel it should be brought into the open before the owner of the horse and saddle catches wind of the situation and causes problems for the facility. how do i do this without catching the brunt of this chaos and does anyone else find this unethical.
thanks
caught in the middle horsey coworker:confused:

Rel6
Apr. 11, 2011, 10:41 PM
is it possible to inform a client at our farm that a coworker is acting unethically not only towards her, but another trainer as well without forming a full throttle emotional tornado? a woman was desperately trying to find a home for her horse because her financial circumstances no longer allowed for her to afford him, and offered one of our trainers "x" her saddle in exchange for finding the horse a home. the aforementioned "x" found the horse a home, but one of the other trainers "s", knowing that the owner was hard up for money pressured the owner into selling her the saddle for half of its value knowing that she had a deal with "x" and than proceeded to attempt to sell the saddle to "x" and all of her students for double what she paid for it. "x" wants to let this slide but i feel it should be brought into the open before the owner of the horse and saddle catches wind of the situation and causes problems for the facility. how do i do this without catching the brunt of this chaos and does anyone else find this unethical.
thanks
caught in the middle horsey coworker:confused:

sorry, no clue, but your "x" and "s" made me have severe flashbacks to 8th grade algebra. good luck with your conundrum!

vxf111
Apr. 11, 2011, 10:42 PM
Wait, do I have this right. Owner asked trainer to re-home horse in exchange for payment in the form of a saddle. Trainer did the rehoming as asked.

Owner then sold the saddle to someone else, for a not-so-good price. That saddle buyer then tried to sell it and make a profit.

I don't think its your COWORKER who is the welsher here. It's the OWNER who agreed to pay the trainer and then didn't. The fact that saddle buyer bought a saddle and then wanted to turn it around and sell it at a profit isn't unethical.

Am I misunderstanding??

horsing around86
Apr. 11, 2011, 10:55 PM
the owner is definitely partially to blame, but the saddle buyer told the owner that the trainer ok'd the purchase, when the trainer was never given the option.
the point is the coworker knew about the deal and pressured the owner into selling it to her anyway. i'm sorry for not being too clear there.

horsing around86
Apr. 11, 2011, 10:58 PM
sorry, no clue, but your "x" and "s" made me have severe flashbacks to 8th grade algebra. good luck with your conundrum!

sorry about the x's and s's, but don't worry, algebra's over now! thanks.

gloriginger
Apr. 11, 2011, 11:05 PM
Just stay out of it...what could you possibly have to gain by getting involved with this situation...seems like there were a few shady people in this mess...just smile and go about your day.

vxf111
Apr. 11, 2011, 11:13 PM
If the owner is a grown adult of sound mind, she made her decision and a poor one. Again, not seeing how trainer #2 is the bad guy here. Maybe set in motion the situation where trainer #1 got screwed but the screwing was done by the owner?! Owner is a grown adult here and needed to check with trainer #1 that trainer #1 was okay with owner renegging on the deal.

Kryswyn
Apr. 11, 2011, 11:15 PM
The owner, no matter how badly she needed money sold the saddle that wasn't hers because she'd promised it to the trainer and OWES her the saddle. The buyer took advantage of her desperation for money to 'help' her overcome her ethics.

Regardless, if the trainer can do without the saddle as commission, then you really should stay out of it. Hold your tongue because with any luck the owner will be out of the barn soon since the horse (and saddle) have been sold.

While the buyer of the saddle has the right to make a profit on the saddle, she has lost any respect you might have had for her, and since you don't want to hang with people you don't respect, ignore her. If she asks why the cold shoulder ONLY then you can tell her that you find what she did abhorrent.

gottagrey
Apr. 11, 2011, 11:16 PM
Owner should have said sorry I can't sell the saddle right now and let trainer "s" know if the deal fell thru she could buy saddle. As far as selling the saddle for more - happens all the time - ever traded in a car?

Quite frankly that whole operation there sounds a bit off...the few barns I've been at (or ones where friends are at) there is often a tack swap among clients... and the trainers are left completely out except to make suggestions... I'm not putting the trainer down for wanting to make a buck...but geez the nice thing to do would have been to let Clien know that another client needs a saddle and the seller's might be perfect...

otherwise I'd stay out of the sordid mess if I were you... but bank the information to make sure it doesn't ever happen to you

kahhull
Apr. 12, 2011, 12:20 AM
Yeah, I'd stay out of it... working around horses made me appreciate keeping a safe distance from this sort of thing. Which is not to say it doesn't happen outside the horse world, that was just the first place I encountered it. You really have nothing to gain by jumping in on the drama and taking a side... which might later be a side you don't actually want to be on...

Prime Time Rider
Apr. 12, 2011, 12:35 AM
Sounds to me like the horse owner behaved unethically by offering to give her saddle to trainer "x" in exchange for finding a home for her horse and then selling it to trainer "s." How is this any of your business and what do you hope to gain by getting involved? It's not as if all 3 parties involved don't know what happened.

RugBug
Apr. 12, 2011, 12:37 AM
If the owner is a grown adult of sound mind, she made her decision and a poor one. Again, not seeing how trainer #2 is the bad guy here. Maybe set in motion the situation where trainer #1 got screwed but the screwing was done by the owner?! Owner is a grown adult here and needed to check with trainer #1 that trainer #1 was okay with owner renegging on the deal.

This. The owner/co-worker is the one who behaved badly. She is lucky Trainer #1 is willing to let her off the hook.

Trainer #2 just used the situation to make a good purchase. Kind of like when someone gets a really nice horse for a steal of a deal during a divorce. There's nothing unethical about that....

mvp
Apr. 12, 2011, 07:30 AM
Still confused.

So Trainer X, who was promised the saddle as a commission, was not given that but had to buy it from Trainer S? Trainer X isn't unhappy?

If I have this right, stay out of it. Neither you nor the horse/saddle owner got screwed. The person who did, Trainer X, isn't complaining and is a professional and adult. If that person things "meh, getting ripped off a bit by a client and a bit by a colleague is part of the biz" then that's sad. But it's her business and her decision to make.

In your spot, I'd just file this info about horse/saddle owner and Trainer S for future reference and think carefully about doing any real business with them. They told you who they are.

danceronice
Apr. 12, 2011, 09:29 AM
What mvp said. If that's the situation, stay out of it. It's none of your business.

kelsey97
Apr. 12, 2011, 09:33 AM
I'm with mvp & danceronice, stay out of it. That little situation will turn on you and bite you in the butt!

meupatdoes
Apr. 12, 2011, 09:43 AM
Owner was going to GIVE saddle to someone who did the work for her as payment and then decided to take money for it from someone else who did not do work for her instead.

Owner conveniently believes, without checking, that "x" is a-ok with this, when a simple phonecall really would have been in order, especially considering how unlikely trainer 's's story is.

Owner is a jerk.
I don't care how financially desperate a person is, don't be a low-lying bleepity bleep to everyone else because of it.


Saddle schmaddle, owner owes trainer "x" the full value of the saddle as payment for services. She can take the half she got from 's' and turn it directly over to 'x' and supplement the next half from her own pocket.

Coreene
Apr. 12, 2011, 10:19 AM
Butt out.

JetSetjr
Apr. 12, 2011, 10:32 AM
Still confused.

So Trainer X, who was promised the saddle as a commission, was not given that but had to buy it from Trainer S? Trainer X isn't unhappy?

If I have this right, stay out of it. Neither you nor the horse/saddle owner got screwed. The person who did, Trainer X, isn't complaining and is a professional and adult. If that person things "meh, getting ripped off a bit by a client and a bit by a colleague is part of the biz" then that's sad. But it's her business and her decision to make.

In your spot, I'd just file this info about horse/saddle owner and Trainer S for future reference and think carefully about doing any real business with them. They told you who they are.


Well said - DITTO

findeight
Apr. 12, 2011, 10:35 AM
It is no secret what happened so MYOB. It is between the parties involved and they all know about it. And consider that you may not know exactly who said what to whom unless you were involved in the conversation and are depending on alot of assumptions. What you have posted here may not be the whole truth and nothing but.

Unless you have some other job opportunities lined up. Nobody likes nosey, gossipy barn workers going behind the boss's back to clients and it is a common reason for termination.

TheJenners
Apr. 12, 2011, 10:46 AM
I don't think the OP can stay out, as I kind of suspect she might be trainer X or a student of trainer S's, and is already embroiled somehow.

findeight
Apr. 12, 2011, 10:55 AM
Well, she said she was a coworker and I took that to mean a barn employee and she said "x" wanted to let this slide but she wanted to bring it into the open.

I try not to read into these things other then what is in print. These things never should be "brought into the open" by involving the whole barn but confined to those involved...and discussed PRIVATELY with the affected parties and/or the BO/BM. ONLY. Nobody else needs to know.

mvp
Apr. 12, 2011, 11:47 AM
So much harshness on the "busy body"!

I said "stay out of it" and "but know how these folks roll" for a different reason. I think all involved in the exchange *should* know whether or not the others are dealing fairly. It's just that it doesn't sound like the OP is the one with special information the others don't have.

If that were the case-- I knew something I thought someone else who was getting screwed ought do know and did not-- I'd take a breath before I did anything. If it was a big deal, or if the innocent person were about to make the same mistake twice with the dishonest one, I would have a private "Hey, just FYI and 'heads up'" kind of conversation.

Damn-- I did this yesterday with a tops-in-his-field prof (Big Head/Nice Guy) who referred to another top prof in a different field (Middleman/Nice Guy) who had, in turn, misused some info that a third big prof (my PhD advisor, nice guy also) had produced, not published, but given to Middleman.

I knew Advisor was unhappy about how Middleman had used his stuff. When we spoke about it and I said to Advisor "This is a quiet, man-to-man conversation you need to have with Middleman. He may change, he may not. He may not see it as you do or he may appreciate that you feel ripped off. But it's a man-to-man thing between you guys first. It involves the rest of the world later, if ever."

So when BH/NG spoke as if Middleman was on the up-and-up with Advisor, I found him after his talk and said, "Hey, have you spoken to Advisor directly about his work? If not, you really should. It might not be as Middleman represented it."

That's all. It's not my place to tell Big Heads what to do. But it's also not right to stand around and let them abuse each other.

findeight
Apr. 12, 2011, 02:41 PM
Yeah, I am harsh on busy bodies in boarding barns...because I have been in them since 1968, big, small, Western, Hunt seat, an Arab barn and even an ASB barn with a Western horse. Fancy show barns, plain old boarding barns or private homes with a small barn. Full, self or partial care. Been asked to leave, thrown out, left with notice and did a midnite move with a .38 on the dash. Been there done that.

It never ends well and can set everybody off or get them taking sides against each other. Handle it privately, not everybody needs to know. Most don't. Only those involved.

my_doran
Apr. 13, 2011, 03:29 AM
Just stay out of it...what could you possibly have to gain by getting involved with this situation...seems like there were a few shady people in this mess...just smile and go about your day.

THIS!