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findlymine
Apr. 8, 2011, 11:55 PM
Why don't you see men wearing shadbellies??

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Apr. 9, 2011, 12:19 AM
They do, in the dressage ring.

It's not considered formal hunting attire for men per the USEF rulebook.

klmck63
Apr. 9, 2011, 12:57 AM
It's not considered formal hunting attire for men per the USEF rulebook.

Which I think is kind of funny, since who wore coats with tails originally? Not the fashionable women ;).

War Admiral
Apr. 9, 2011, 06:28 AM
They do, in the dressage ring.

It's not considered formal hunting attire for men per the USEF rulebook.

Actually, I just looked at HU 127 and it seems they don't specify any more, but back in the day the preferred options for formal gentlemen's attire were: 1. Frock Coat, 2. Shadbelly, 3. Weaselbelly (not sure if you can even get these any more w/o going custom!).

Kestrel
Apr. 9, 2011, 07:25 AM
War Admiral, what's the difference between a shadbelly and a weaslebelly? I thought that the latter was just a men's shadbelly...

Madeline
Apr. 9, 2011, 07:58 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that shadbellies, especially when adorned with bright linings and worn with low rise breeches, are distracting? That the flopping tails detract from a smooth, workmanlike appearance? That they're really just a silly affectation?

I realize that my opinion may be colored by the fact that I hunted with a very formal hunt for a decade, and the only people who ever wore shads were silly...

SidesaddleRider
Apr. 9, 2011, 09:37 AM
War Admiral, what's the difference between a shadbelly and a weaslebelly? I thought that the latter was just a men's shadbelly...

That is correct. Men's traditional formal cut of coats were: 1) Frock, 2) Weaselbelly/Shadbelly, and 3) Swallowtail.

My husband has a scarlet weaselbelly/shadbelly, made in 1921, that was used with the Quorn Hunt in Britain. He only pulls it out for the Corinthian class at Warrenton and a few other select BTO competitions, as the stitching is a bit fragile in places.

Madeline,Yes, your view may be a bit skewed. ;) However, I also detest colored/false vest points. low rise breeches with shirt showing, and colored linings on the tails. Otherwise I think it looks fine. http://cherryblossomfarm.net/OCHTeamChase2009Pics.html :)

JenEM
Apr. 9, 2011, 10:25 AM
SidesaddleRider, what lovely pictures! It appears that your husband's coat is cut more like a morning coat (single breasted with a curving cutaway), rather than a shadbelly (double breasted and cut straight across the front) would be. Is that perhaps the difference between a shadbelly and weaselbelly? Its lovely!

hijumpin1
Apr. 9, 2011, 10:30 AM
That is correct. Men's traditional formal cut of coats were: 1) Frock, 2) Weaselbelly/Shadbelly, and 3) Swallowtail.

My husband has a scarlet weaselbelly/shadbelly, made in 1921, that was used with the Quorn Hunt in Britain. He only pulls it out for the Corinthian class at Warrenton and a few other select BTO competitions, as the stitching is a bit fragile in places.

Madeline,Yes, your view may be a bit skewed. ;) However, I also detest colored/false vest points. low rise breeches with shirt showing, and colored linings on the tails. Otherwise I think it looks fine. http://cherryblossomfarm.net/OCHTeamChase2009Pics.html :)

Your pictures just made my day.

MHM
Apr. 9, 2011, 11:13 AM
SidesaddleRider, what great pictures!!! That looked like a fantastic day.

I'm just a little sad that your turn-out was slightly obscured by the big numbers you had to wear. :lol:

I did see one teenage boy wearing a shadbelly at a show a few years ago. I was scratching my head a little on that one.

danceronice
Apr. 9, 2011, 11:44 AM
SidesaddleRider, what lovely pictures! It appears that your husband's coat is cut more like a morning coat (single breasted with a curving cutaway), rather than a shadbelly (double breasted and cut straight across the front) would be. Is that perhaps the difference between a shadbelly and weaselbelly? Its lovely!

I second the question! And what awesome pictures! I'd be afraid to ride in something that old myself.

I prefer a tailcoat to a regular hunt coat, if the person can ride. What I don't like are modern saddle-seat habits (I'm trying to find patterns for 18th and 19th century ladies riding habits myself. Though that would all look odd with a helmet...)

Coreene
Apr. 9, 2011, 12:12 PM
Sidesaddlerider, I am swooning. :yes:

kelsey97
Apr. 9, 2011, 12:34 PM
Sidesaddlerider LOVE your pics! Horses are just lovely, what a fun day. Makes me homesick...nothing like that in Florida.

SidesaddleRider
Apr. 9, 2011, 08:11 PM
SidesaddleRider, what lovely pictures! It appears that your husband's coat is cut more like a morning coat (single breasted with a curving cutaway), rather than a shadbelly (double breasted and cut straight across the front) would be. Is that perhaps the difference between a shadbelly and weaselbelly? Its lovely!

Actually, that is his frock coat that you are looking at. The only pic of him in his weaselbelly on that page is the top middle photo. Let me see if I can find a better pic of him in it. And YES, we were all peeved at having to wear the numbers during the Best Turnout Out competition (which our team has won 3 yrs in a row, btw), as it really ruined the pictures!

OK, here are some pics of him wearing it at Warrenton. Hopefully you will be able to see it better! It is double breasted, cut straight across, with a very slight curve to the tails away from the waist, but not as much as with a swallowtail coat:
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=0&pos=1
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=2&pos=3
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=9&pos=10
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=23&pos=24
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=15&pos=16
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=24&pos=25&image_id=24&pos=25
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGalleryPhoto.asp?evgroupid=0&userid=Jordankoepke&gallery_id=1754944&image_id=105&pos=106

gottagrey
Apr. 10, 2011, 12:50 AM
Okay next question which is going to completely derail the Men shadbelly question but begs to be asked... how does sidesaddlerider get her horse's white so White??? I've gottagrey who I think longs to be a buckskin....

SidesaddleRider
Apr. 10, 2011, 09:57 PM
Okay next question which is going to completely derail the Men shadbelly question but begs to be asked... how does sidesaddlerider get her horse's white so White??? I've gottagrey who I think longs to be a buckskin....

LOL, Orvus shampoo for the whole body, and Simple Green for the really stubborn spots. No Quic Silver for me -- I find it to be overly expensive and not to work as well as the Orvus/Simple Green combo. :)

gottagrey
Apr. 10, 2011, 11:24 PM
LOL, Orvus shampoo for the whole body, and Simple Green for the really stubborn spots. No Quic Silver for me -- I find it to be overly expensive and not to work as well as the Orvus/Simple Green combo. :)

where do you get simple green? is that one of the earthy /"green" household cleaners or simple green horse stuff - will be on a mission tomorrow thanks

Kestrel
Apr. 11, 2011, 04:01 AM
I can find Simple Green at most grocery or hardware stores. Should be easy to find.

Napoles
Apr. 11, 2011, 04:31 AM
Which I think is kind of funny, since who wore coats with tails originally? Not the fashionable women ;).

Yep, it was traditional for men to wear tails when hunting, not women.

SidesaddleRider
Apr. 11, 2011, 08:18 AM
I can find Simple Green at most grocery or hardware stores. Should be easy to find.

^^ This ^^. I usually get it at my local hardware store, or at Home Depot. It is very safe on the horses - my pinto has VERY sensitive skin, and is never bothered by it.

Spooky Alter
Apr. 11, 2011, 12:18 PM
How do you dilute it?
Use it straight?

BAC
Apr. 11, 2011, 12:53 PM
War Admiral, what's the difference between a shadbelly and a weaslebelly? I thought that the latter was just a men's shadbelly...

That's what I thought too.

SidesaddleRider
Apr. 11, 2011, 01:31 PM
How do you dilute it? Use it straight?

Yes, use it straight. Scrub the white first with shampoo and rinse. For any stubborn spots, spray the Simple Green directly on the spot, let it sit for a minute, lightly scrub with your nails, then rinse off.

MHM
Apr. 11, 2011, 01:43 PM
Yes, use it straight. Scrub the white first with shampoo and rinse. For any stubborn spots, spray the Simple Green directly on the spot, let it sit for a minute, lightly scrub with your nails, then rinse off.

Obviously your method works- those horses were gleaming in the pictures! :cool:

FAW
Apr. 11, 2011, 02:41 PM
In a class where ladies would wear a shad, men should wear white breeches, white tie and shirt and either dark blue or black hunt coat