PDA

View Full Version : Stupid ways to get "THE BIG E" ...or, weird rules you have broken......



FlightCheck
May. 20, 2005, 12:32 PM
I am helping out at the Area III camp this year, and am teaching rules to the BN/N competitors using some games and such.

Have any of you ever been penalized for an obscure rule?

Or, stories of "stupid things I've done that I didn't know were against the rules"?

FlightCheck
May. 20, 2005, 12:32 PM
I am helping out at the Area III camp this year, and am teaching rules to the BN/N competitors using some games and such.

Have any of you ever been penalized for an obscure rule?

Or, stories of "stupid things I've done that I didn't know were against the rules"?

Jleegriffith
May. 20, 2005, 12:56 PM
Yep..last weekend. If you fall in stadium you must remount and present to the next fence in 45 seconds. If you are past the 45 seconds you are eliminated. I could have gotten on faster if my horse was smaller and I was more flexible and wasn't so stunned that I fell in the first place http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif
BTW-if you knock the fence down and fall off. You still must be on in the 45 seconds and present to the fence. If they are not done building the fence they will blow the whistle on your approach. You can stop and then they will blow the whistle when you can start.

baileygreyhorse
May. 20, 2005, 12:58 PM
My only (as of yet) E was from jumping a stadium fence backward after getting lost on course. Not an obscure rule; just a brain fart. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

subk
May. 20, 2005, 03:21 PM
Hey Flight Check, just a thought, if you change the title of your post from "rules gurus" to "Stupid ways I've been E'd because I didn't know/forgot the rules" it might fry the BB with rapid fire responses...

My only E was when I spent the first 45 seconds after falling off in stadium underneath my horse. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Of course the technical question comes in as to whether was I actually E'd 44 seconds earlier when my horse fell. Technically his shoulders had not hit the ground because my body was serving as insulation from said ground.

deltawave
May. 20, 2005, 03:43 PM
I almost got an "E" at my 2nd-ever HT when I forgot which signal my ring was using to signal the rider to enter for dressage. I heard a bell, entered, and the very forgiving judge quickly blew her whistle, LOL! Ooops. I'm very grateful to her for being understanding--it was, after all, BN. I wouldn't expect the same leniency now, but it sure would've made me disappointed at that stage of the game!

ss3777
May. 20, 2005, 03:54 PM
Well these are the ones I was petrified of breaking and getting the big E:

leaving boots on for dressage
I always brain fart about the combination rule if your horse refuses the b or c-part (so far I have not tested my memory under pressure) do you retake a and b or just b? I think the whole thing.

Forget your medical arm band.

One time a judge in stadium called me back to check my helmet, he could not see the clear harness, plus my years in the hunter ring may have given me a "certain look" (the hair over the ear thing)

jump the warm-up of fence in the wrong direction.

umm, the big olympic boo-boo, going through the start flags twice while executing a beautiful circle. That would be a hunter flashback for moi.

or, not going through either the start or finish flags.

Jump the wrong level while out xc and miss your level. (ie when a few are right next to each other)

well these may seem obvious to the veterans but perhaps they may be helpful to newbies.

great idea for an educational eventhttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

eventjunky
May. 20, 2005, 03:58 PM
got an E at my first FEI event by misreading my xc start time. I was first on course on one horse and an hour and one half later on the next and misread the second start time by twenty mins. I got there 6 mins before my start and still eliminated me because they wern't loud enough in yelling out the order I still thought I had twenty mins and they came and told me I was eliminated because I was to go next. Big disapointment to prep a horse for a FEI event and travel for two days just to ride dressage, they wouldn't even let me just some stadium in the xc warmup because "E" riders are a hazard!!

Grasshopper
May. 20, 2005, 06:31 PM
Well...they changed the rules while the mare was laid up and added that circling rule...well, I never read it *too* carefully, and decided to circle *after* the last fence at an unrec. HT last summer, as we were way faster than the optimum time...http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

I didn't get the big E, but I think I did get a nice 20 pt penalty, if I remember correctly...

Oh, yeah, and I think the same HT I went through the stadium start flags in my circle (yes, hunter flashback here too) and added several extra seconds to my time. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It was not my best weekend, let's say...

oskaar
May. 20, 2005, 06:47 PM
Stuff I have seen lately:

Not waiting for the bell/whistle in SJ (at the AECs too, poor girl)

Figuring out where the timers are so you don't accidentally false start

Jumping the warmup fence backward

Not double checking start times upon arrival

Leaving the ring in dressage (snotty little pony went right for the gate)

Unauthorized assistance. Make sure they know that they can ask for a leg up on XC, that someone can catch a loose horse, etc.

Rules on larking--not PC, but if you jump the wrong jump, you can circle around and jump the right one without penalty

The A/B versus seperately numbered obstacle issue (N not BN)

Proper tack--spurs, whip length, bits, martingales, etc

Leaving the course immediately when eliminated. I rode hunters, so when my eq horse stopped out, I tried to get him over the fence (I always taught not to let him get away with being naughty). Turns out some lady tried to beat her horse in a fit of rage after he stopped, and she ended up jumping a jump backward in SJ. She fell off, broke her back, and sued the USEA. So if you keep jumping after elimination, you can go ahead and write a $100 check for the TD

That's all I can think of right now.

Oh yeah! Thank all your volunteers, and be nice to them!

Sannois
May. 20, 2005, 07:27 PM
YES Remember to Jump the whole in and out if you have a refusal on the 2nd element! I was in 1 2 or 3 but instead I was eliminated! That was the last time I did an event! Not because of that however! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But it was the best one I had ever been to, Aside from that! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

slp2
May. 20, 2005, 08:23 PM
The very first event I went to (just watching--and the start of getting hooked on the sport) a friend had a great x-c round. However, partway through her x-c run, her helmet harness broke (chin strap). She finished the ride with it that way and got the big "E". I thought that was a bit unfair--since it certainly wasn't her fault that she had "equipment failure" so to speak.

yventer
May. 20, 2005, 09:47 PM
Riding your competition horse bareback!!!

I see it all the time, especially at 3DE's!

Y

*WhiteTips*
May. 20, 2005, 10:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by yventer:
Riding your competition horse bareback!!!

I see it all the time, especially at 3DE's!

Y </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not permitted? I do it all the time, and have never been stopped!

At my first event, my horse jumped out of the dressage area, that was fun.

Before the new whip rule, a friend did her entire test, and upon her salute, the jugde kindly noted that she was eliminated for carrying a whip.

I got through a lovely test, the best with my horse, and upon the halt, I colapsed on to his neck, hugging him. The judge ruined the moment by reminding me to salute. She also gave me a 4 instead of an 8 http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

gallopnz
May. 20, 2005, 11:32 PM
I got 2 E's this year, 1 on each of my horses at the same event.
1- was for jumping jumps out of order (like *duh*)
2- I attempted an option and when my other horse stopped, I went and did the easier option instead. Apparently I can do this and it was a jump judge error. Unfortunatly I couldnt get it corrected without a formal complaint and that had a decent fee.

Dont exit the dressage arena during test, and I have also been E'd once for swearing (and one other time I turned around and apologised to the fence steward) so dont do that!

fargonefarm
May. 21, 2005, 05:39 AM
I didn't know that you could get eliminated for swearing! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Thank goodness nobody heard me last weekend in stadium!
I got eliminated once for jumping a non-flagged obstacle on XC (the stupid little log was IN MY WAY!) You can opt to jump flagged jumps that are not on your course, but not unflagged ones. It was just a stupid log though! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

flyingchange
May. 21, 2005, 05:53 AM
My favorite seems to be forgetting my dressage test (while riding it of course). Love that. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Scaramouch
May. 21, 2005, 06:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
Not waiting for the bell/whistle in SJ (at the AECs too, poor girl)

Figuring out where the timers are so you don't accidentally false start
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, in stadium, do you wait for a bell/whistle, or do you wait for the timer to start before starting? Or both? Will the bell ring before the timer starts? It seems to me that a rider would have too much else to be getting on with without worrying about if the clock has started? Oh, and do you have to salute in SJ? Lucky for me this thread came along before I do my first BN!

riverpup
May. 21, 2005, 06:45 AM
This is a great thread, I have learned a lot.

I have been eliminated for jumping the wrong jump on XC, so not knowing the course qualifies as a pretty stupid reason for the big E!

Ridingstar
May. 21, 2005, 07:12 AM
Once in stadium my horse stopped at a fence and as we turned away I gave him a whack with the crop. He responded to by leaping over another fence, getting us eliminated for jumping an obstacle in the wrong order http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif .

gillenwaterfarm
May. 21, 2005, 07:13 AM
I'm with Deltawave on the knowing your signal for dressage.

My first BN event, the judge was sitting in a car, using the horn as the signal.

I'm warming up around the ring, and hear a horn, so proceed to trot down the center line, and the judge yells out the window that I need to wait for the signal before beginning. It turns out that someone locked a car in the parking lot next to the arena, sounding the horn, but it wasn't the judge. Luckily I was able to get the steward to overturn the E.

I'm glad someone mentioned the bareback thing, I love grazing my horse bareback after I'm done for the day. Now I know to not even attempt it anymore.

EventingJ
May. 21, 2005, 07:14 AM
i too have been eliminated because my horse jumped out of the dressage ring http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif he had been going pretty well up until that moment when i asked for a canter and he took an enormous leap 2 1/2 strides away from the ring and managed to make it over the chain - how embarassing it would have been to destroy the ring on the way out http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

doctormolley
May. 21, 2005, 09:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:

Proper tack--spurs, whip length, bits, martingales, etc
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wasn't me and it was a long time ago, but I know someone who got the big E for riding x-c in a standing martingale. She was riding in a lot of hunter shows and used to foxhunt regularly at the time, so I'm sure it was an easy mistake to make!

It's been a long long time since I've competed, but I'm hoping to be back in the hunt by next year and I am learning a lot from this thread (new rules, old rules that I wasn't aware of!).
I'm dreading the moment when I will make some of these same mistakes. (I know that my bad little mare will at some point make the premature exit of the dressage ring! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

oskaar
May. 21, 2005, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scaramouch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
Not waiting for the bell/whistle in SJ (at the AECs too, poor girl)

Figuring out where the timers are so you don't accidentally false start
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, in stadium, do you wait for a bell/whistle, or do you wait for the timer to start before starting? Or both? Will the bell ring before the timer starts? It seems to me that a rider would have too much else to be getting on with without worrying about if the clock has started? Oh, and do you have to salute in SJ? Lucky for me this thread came along before I do my first BN! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are supposed to trot over to the judge and salute. She will then blow the whistle, and you have 60 seconds to go through the start markers.

What really happens, in an effort to speed things along, is that the judge will blow the whistle as you head in, and you start your course. I always make an effort to drop my right hand, as a standing salute is not required as it is in dressage.

What I have seen happen is a rider trots over to the judge without noticing where the timers are. She then gets eliminated for crossing the timers without a whistle. Does that make sense?

Almost every event will have automatic starters, which are two motion sensors on tripods. When you cross the line, you automatically trip the wire and they start. When you cross the finish, there will be another set that will stop the time. The scorer will also have a stopwatch to manually time in case of timer failure. All you have to do is note where the timers are during your coursewalk so you make sure you pass through them. They are usually set up so there's no way to get to the jump without passing through them.

Scaramouch
May. 21, 2005, 03:13 PM
So you basically just make sure thsat you don't go over the start line/between the timers before the judge rings the bell? Thanks, I really had no clue about this!

oskaar
May. 21, 2005, 04:00 PM
Yep.

And just to confuse you, you CAN go through them backwards, either before or after the judge blows the whistle.

ThirdCharm
May. 21, 2005, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
[You are supposed to trot over to the judge and salute. She will then blow the whistle, and you have 60 seconds to go through the start markers.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually saluting hasn't been required for a couple of years at least, and you have 45 seconds to go through the start after the whistle.

Jennifer

goodymar1188
May. 21, 2005, 04:59 PM
ThirdCharm is correct... there isn't a "required" salute! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Usually you can just trot in... slow down to a walk sometimes not even slow down and then they blow the whistle. Make sure you start within 45 seconds and you'll be good!

kcrubin
May. 21, 2005, 05:23 PM
I have still been saluting the stadium judge as I enter - not standing but at the trot or canter waiting for the whistle. Dang - do I look like an old fogey even more now or what?

goodymar1188
May. 21, 2005, 05:44 PM
LOL... no, a lot of people still do kcrubin!

It's just not necessary anymore. I can't salute with my mare... she doesn't understand the concept of stopping when we're jumping! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Boy, I just love her personality on XC... let's hope she'll be able to come back from her injury and event.

deltawave
May. 21, 2005, 05:49 PM
You only have 45 seconds to cross through the start flags in stadium after the whistle, if I'm not mistaken.

flypony74
May. 21, 2005, 05:57 PM
The only time I have gotten the big "E" was by going off course on stadium. It was the dumbest thing I ever did. I was a seasoned competitor, not a newbie...so I had no excuse! I came off a fence and totally blanked out, and just cantered around for a moment hoping I would remember my course! Then, then whistle...

Luckily, they took pity on me and let me run x-c the next day, since I wasn't a safety issue (just stupid!).

persefne
May. 21, 2005, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThirdCharm:
Actually saluting hasn't been required for a couple of years at least, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is technically correct, but I recently stewarded sj at an event where the judge requested that all riders approach him and salute in order to see their number. I had a radio and was radioing the numbers over, but he still wanted everyone to enter and gesture. I think it was more an effort to keep things smooth and traditional, rather than horses galloping in one end of the arena and out the other practically one on top of another (it was a huge BN and JBN division with about 40 riders in each). If it were me, I'd ask the ring steward whether to salute or whether to just enter, prepare for the course, and then listen for the bell before crossing the line. Many riders were asking me and they all seemed prepared to salute or just to begin, whichever way we were running it. Since I volunteer as well as ride, I'm very big on talking to the stewards (dressage, xc, and sj) just to make sure they know I'm there (checking in with name and number before the respective phase) and just getting a sense of how things are going.

I know many people who would prefer to salute the judge -- that whole idea of the propriety and tradition of our sport -- whether or not it's required, I always (whether walking, trotting, cantering by) acknowledge the judge and at least touch my whip to my hat, if not salute outright.

carovet
May. 21, 2005, 06:47 PM
back in the day before the rule change that allowed whips....http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif no longer an issue

--- whip in warm up good = forward test,

--- whip in test bad...therefore i dropped it when i realized it was in my hand during my salute......no whistle....finished my test and judge said good job....while i was debating what to do, the next horse halted at x and stood on the handle of the whip, popping the lash upwards towards the horse......judge still didn't notice.....

so at that point i figured someone would end up having it cause their horse a problem which wouldn't be fair....

i told the t.d. what had happened...she checked with the judge and she indeed had not noticed the whip, and had judged and scored my test......

end of story....judge requested my test back from the runner and put down the big E despite the fact that she had already signed off and handed off my test.....

waaaaaahhhh! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i would have fessed up, but no fair when the judge/t.d./officials/etc didn't even notice and i had to be the one to bring attention to it!

carovet

deltawave
May. 21, 2005, 06:51 PM
Definitely, persefne. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif I judged stadium at a medium-sized local HT last weekend and was HOARSE by the end of the day from shouting "WHAT'S YOUR NUMBER" at all the riders as they entered. The 2 pre-teens running the in-gate were too intimidated to tell each rider to approach my "judges stand" (or pickup truck, LOL) so I could see their number.

Mademoiselle, who I think was the VERY last rider, was the ONLY person who had the courtesy to do this. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Of course, one good thing about a local HT is I knew about half the people anyhow, and my scribe pretty much knew a good number of them, too. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif But still, ever tried seeing those little tiny bridle numbers from a distance? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I always first FIND where the judge is, then ride as close to them as I can and tell them my number, then nod a greeting and begin cantering.

msghook
May. 22, 2005, 06:21 AM
Running martingale without rein stops.

Malcolm

Odie222
May. 22, 2005, 07:05 AM
I got eliminated for missing a set of mandatory flags on xc, although I still don't think it was my fault http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I got into xc warmup (it had poured the day before and the footing was crap) and the steward told me that the bank complex had been removed. The started also made it a point to tell me. No one however told me that while they had removed the banks, that the had put mandatory flags in right next to it. So I was in the last field which basically was a loop around the outside, I cut inside acrost the center, in an attempt to save my horse from having to go through more deep mud and jumped the final fence. No one said anything to me after I finshed. Later I was very confused when they posted scores, and I had the E. It was then that somebody final said to me "didn't you go through the flags?" and I was like "what flags". So Disapointing to be eliminated, especially after my horse had done so well in such bad footing, and without one of his front shoes for more then half the course.

Pol
May. 22, 2005, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kcrubin:
I have still been saluting the stadium judge as I enter - not standing but at the trot or canter waiting for the whistle. Dang - do I look like an old fogey even more now or what? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gifWell, I guess I'm an old fogey too-I always canter in, straight to the judges, halt, salute and canter off to start my ride. If I'm specifically told NOT to salute it makes me all grumpy! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

oskaar
May. 22, 2005, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThirdCharm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
[You are supposed to trot over to the judge and salute. She will then blow the whistle, and you have 60 seconds to go through the start markers.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually saluting hasn't been required for a couple of years at least, and you have 45 seconds to go through the start after the whistle.

Jennifer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oops, guess I was thinking of 60 seconds for dressage.

I didn't know they actually took the salute out of the rule book. I always thought it was just sort of tossed aside in an effort to hurry things along. Maybe I should read the rule book more often. Wonder what else I'm missing?

barbaraG
May. 22, 2005, 09:49 AM
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

This is a Great Thread!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

A bit ot. But please tell your class to always be polite!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Whatever happens, tomorrow is another day!! If you, or your horse mess up, (happens to Everyone!) http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif Take it with good grace. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

Thank the judges, the volunteers, write a note to the Organizer. Folks run Events because they Want to not because they have to!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif Organizers and others will remember!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

The way to avoid "the Big E" is to study the Rule Book, watch the riders ahead of you and ask questions!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

I've been volunteering in this Sport a long time, seen just about Everything and this is the Best advise I can give anyone starting out. Trust me! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

BarbaraG
GWV/ http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

goodymar1188
May. 22, 2005, 09:50 AM
I thought it was 45 seconds for dressage now too?

Dang, maybe this thread should be changed to "rules we still don't know totally".

ThirdCharm
May. 22, 2005, 10:43 AM
It IS 45 seconds for dressage, also.

Get thee to a rulebook, m'dear!

Jennifer

persefne
May. 22, 2005, 11:24 AM
For those of you who are constantly closer to your pc than your USEA rulebook, here's the online quick link: USEA Rulebook (http://www.useventing.com/publications/pdf/2005RuleBook.pdf)

This link has become my best friend, since I never got my rulebook this year. I even reminded them at the USEA tent when I renewed my membership at Rolex...and I still haven't gotten one yet. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sadsmile.gif

frugalannie
May. 22, 2005, 11:56 AM
Thanks, persefne, for that link. Is there a way to search it without flipping through individual pages and scanning them?

I wanted to check if this was an "everywhere" rule or just at Groton House, where one is eliminated for whipping/ striking the horse more than three times or ahead of the saddle. I haven't been "E"d for it yet, but I've worked scoring enough to see it happen to others.

And in addition to removing any boots your horse is wearing before dressage, be sure to take off the tail wrap http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif.

asterix
May. 22, 2005, 12:15 PM
frugalannie, the "horse abuse" rule is an "everywhere" rule -- I jump judge a lot and hear the briefings around Area II, so we always have conversations about this.

You can hit the horse ahead of the saddle, down its shoulder -- you canNOT hit the horse on its neck or head, overhanded, or repeatedly to "punish" the horse after a disobedience.

goodymar1188
May. 22, 2005, 12:18 PM
OOPS... I've done the overhand thing before... I always learned that's the proper way to hit a horse for being naughty http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. My trainer still does it... maybe I should tell him it's a no-no.

FlightCheck
May. 22, 2005, 12:31 PM
Goodymar, yes, overhand is "against the rules" and every event I've been to this year has briefed the jump judges on it.

Janet
May. 22, 2005, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by frugalannie:
Thanks, persefne, for that link. Is there a way to search it without flipping through individual pages and scanning them?
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> If you are referring to the link to the online version of the rules (or any othe pdf for that matter), a the top is an icon that looks like a pair of binoculars. You click on that to search.

Janet
May. 22, 2005, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You can hit the horse ahead of the saddle, down its shoulder </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You may not hit the horse on the shoulder AFTER the disobedience, only before.

Janet
May. 22, 2005, 12:48 PM
I have been Very LUCKY with the old whip rule. One judge stopped me BEFORE my salute, and told me to go out and start again without it.

Another time I realized I had the whip, and dropped it as we passed F (away form the judge). Luckily the judge didn't notice. I waited until all the dressage was finished to retrieve it.

Other E's I have seen.

Tail bandage still on for dressage
Half chaps
Missing the finish line on stadium or, more often, cross country.
Inadvertently crossing the start line BEFORE the judge blows the whistle (this rule is usually waived, but not always, so be careful of your track).

Illegal bit, standing martingale (usually crossovers from hunters).

oskaar
May. 22, 2005, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThirdCharm:
It IS 45 seconds for dressage, also.

Get thee to a rulebook, m'dear!

Jennifer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I think the last time I even SAW a rulebook was when I was 14. Are you saying that reading the rule book every ten years is a BAD thing?

ThirdCharm
May. 22, 2005, 05:36 PM
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif.....not a problem if the TD is staying over for the event at the Bide-A-Wee Rest Home, I guess..... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Regarding "overhand" use of the whip, goodymar, you are probably thinking "whip pointing up (thumbside), whole arm whack!" but the rulebook defines "overhand" use as 'whip in the right hand, used on the left flank' (I can't imagine why anyone would even TRY to do that, but someone must have at some point....).

Jennifer

goodymar1188
May. 22, 2005, 06:15 PM
Jennifer--- that's what I ment... thanks for clearing it up!

I've seen people do the "overhand" whipping at home schooling sometimes. I was referring to just "whip up" hitting!

mcm7780
May. 22, 2005, 07:10 PM
Okay, I have a question...I've never seen this done, but I once heard that sometimes people will hit their horse between the ears with their whip if they rear. Is this a "normal" practice? And, if it if, would it be considered abuse and get you eliminated? Whenever my old mare reared, I was too busy trying to stay on so it never crossed my mind to do that!!! But, someone told me that once and I always wondered if it was something people normally did...

goodymar1188
May. 22, 2005, 07:20 PM
I did that with my old pony... he'd get crabby and decide he didn't want to do dressage that day. Yah, call me an abuser to Goody but he could care less... somehow he always dodged the whip when it was flying between his ears... http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

I never did it at a show... I like to be civilized at a show, even if Goody hardly was! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So I'm not sure if it's illegal or not... I'd think so... but who knows!

Janet
May. 22, 2005, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcm7780:
Okay, I have a question...I've never seen this done, but I once heard that sometimes people will hit their horse between the ears with their whip if they rear. Is this a "normal" practice? And, if it if, would it be considered abuse and get you eliminated? Whenever my old mare reared, I was too busy trying to stay on so it never crossed my mind to do that!!! But, someone told me that once and I always wondered if it was something people normally did... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes. It would be considered abuse and would get you eliminated.

CluesGirl
May. 23, 2005, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Janet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You can hit the horse ahead of the saddle, down its shoulder </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You may not hit the horse on the shoulder AFTER the disobedience, only before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My horse is ultra whip-sensitive. If there is a jump on XC I think he might be considering stopping at, I usually give him a few pre-emptive taps on the shoulder a few strides out. Glad to know I've been clairvoyant and have been disciplining him "Before the disobedience"!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Saluting the judge - have always stuck with the stadium salute (even on a very foggy day when I inavertently saluted the old barn / portapotties!!).

Funniest way I was ever eliminated: our first time at Novice, I was petrified of this table we were to jump. I let my pony get crooked to it and buried the poor guy into it...he gave me a huge leap and actually leapt through the N flags in flight and jumped diagonally across the T table next to ours. Made me laugh at my fear of the N table!!!

They had to eliminate us because technically we missed 2/3 of our fence.

WNT
May. 23, 2005, 08:00 AM
My stupid E this weekend involved me being stubborn. Robin stopped at the down bank, and instead of circling around, and re-presenting him, I tried to get him down from a standstill, and we took too long. The jump judge informed me that it was three stops, and then Robin hopped off the bank http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif .

Two of the other riders from my barn also got eliminated: one skipped a fence, and the other missed the finish flags. There's always next time!

Blugal
May. 23, 2005, 11:47 AM
Before you worry about *what* signal is yours for dressage, you should make sure you are actually waiting for *a* signal. Nothing like entering before the signal and being eliminated before you've even started (at my very first event, no less). Now I know that you can ask the friendly judge whether they have given the signal yet instead of just panicking and entering!

Learn your stadium course. I jumped the wrong "first" fence because they were sited right beside each other - my nerves got me and I didn't notice.

none...
May. 23, 2005, 12:06 PM
Im guesssing most people dont have this problem too often...

1. I always clean my tack before an event. At this particular one, I was switching spur straps. I put them on as a normal person would and continued to pack them away for the next day.

At dressage I did the average bit & spur check. No problems.

It wasnt until I had dismounted and was taking off my boots (after riding all 3 phases) that I realized my one spur was on upside-down!! (shaft pointing up)

Looking back, Im REALLY lucky that bit-checker-lady didnt check both spurs!! (if they had noticed, it would have been an 'E')

2. If your horse stops at a fence and procedes to back up three steps, its concidered an E (Ive come across this problem quite a few times!!)

sophie
May. 23, 2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
2. If your horse stops at a fence and procedes to back up three steps, its concidered an E (Ive come across this problem quite a few times!!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that right? Oh man I need to read that rule book again.

Also, WNT, did Robin take steps backwards when you were getting him to jump that bank?
Because I thought that if the horse does NOT take a step backwards and is still "somewhat" moving forward it would not count as a refusal?

I am asking because my greenie has a tendency to "slowly meander" (with mucho kicking on my part) to a jump that's spooky to her...we're only doing BN and she can jump those tiny fences from a standstill if needed, so I have kept pushing her onward and over the fence when she does it...not pretty, but she goes over...so if she meanders, stops, meanders, stops, and jumps, would that be a refusal? (I can usually prevent her from stepping backwards...ahh, greenies...LOL)

bornfreenowexpensive
May. 23, 2005, 12:52 PM
May be I'm wrong but I always thought that the steps backs were typically just one refusual unless you are representing them. If they go flying backwards with many steps one stop. But if they stop back a step (one refusal) you increase your kicking etc.. and they back a second step (two refusuals) etc... but if they go flying backwards it is just one until you represent. The key is the rider has to change or increase effort to get the horse over the obstacle before it becomes a second refusal so when the greenie sees the drop into the water, slams on the breaks and goes screaming backwards as fast he can while rider clings to neck tying not to start swearing--just one refusal until rider gathers together and represents.

Here are the rules for x-c (they are slightly different for stadium).

DISOBEDIENCES (REFUSALS and RUN-OUTS)

a. Refusals.(1) At obstacles or elements with height (exceeding 30 cm), a horse is considered to have refused if it stops in front of the obstacle to be jumped.(2) At all other obstacles (i.e., 30 cm or less in height) a stop followed immediately by a standing jump is not penalized, but if the halt is sustained or in any way prolonged,this constitutes a refusal. The horse may step sideways but if it steps back, even with one foot, this is a refusal. (3) After a refusal, if a competitor redoubles or changes his efforts without success, or if the horse is represented at the obstacle after stepping back and stops or backs again, this is a second refusal, and so on.

b. Runouts. A horse is considered to be disobedient if it runs-out, avoids the obstacle or element to be jumped in such a way that it has to be represented. A rider is permitted to change his mind as to where he jumps an obstacle or element at any time without penalty for a run-out, including as a result of a mistake at a previous obstacle or element.

c. At an obstacle composed of several elements (A B obstacle), a horse may be disobedient
and refuse or run-out only twice in all without incurring elimination.

eventable
May. 23, 2005, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You can opt to jump flagged jumps that are not on your course, but not unflagged ones. It was just a stupid log though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Here you can jump stuff that is NOT flagged without elimination - i.e. if you're coming off a jump and there's something in the way which is not flagged, you may opt to jump it. If it is flagged for another class, you're E.

bornfreenowexpensive
May. 23, 2005, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eventable:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You can opt to jump flagged jumps that are not on your course, but not unflagged ones. It was just a stupid log though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Here you can jump stuff that is NOT flagged without elimination - i.e. if you're coming off a jump and there's something in the way which is not flagged, you may opt to jump it. If it is flagged for another class, you're E. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok--I've never really known what the rule was so this has made me go look it up and I couldn't find a clear answer--its clearly not permitted in stadium but x-c just says you have to jump in the correct direction and jump your course in order. I've always thought the rule was you could only jump obstacles flagged for your course--because technically, when your course is running, those are the only fences deemed flagged at the time. Hopefully some nice TD or someone can answer it clearly for us! The liability risks of people jumping things not flagged for their level or things not flagged at all makes me nervous--common sense tells me you're not supposed to do either but my common sense could be warped from my profession!

Well back to the thread topic--I've never gotten an E but have almost gone into dressage a few times with boots on! I had so many close calls that now I do not warm up in boots--sorry pony!

bambam
May. 23, 2005, 04:22 PM
I have always thought the same thing (which I am pretty sure came from my coach) that you can jump stuff flagged for other levels as long as you jump your own in order as well. Never tried that theory http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but that is my understanding- rules gurus can tell us if we are wrong
My big dumb E came from an unplanned exit from the dressage ring
Lucky for me, I made the spurs pointing up booboo at a (very laid-back) starter trial where the very nice dressage steward helped me switch them just in time to make it into my test. I was new to using spurs at all (they were itty bitty nubs anyway) and had no idea about the pointing down thing http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif

Janet
May. 23, 2005, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I got eliminated once for jumping a non-flagged obstacle on XC (the stupid little log was IN MY WAY!) You can opt to jump flagged jumps that are not on your course, but not unflagged ones. It was just a stupid log though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That USED to be a rule, but not anymore. It was changed many years ago.

I once had a TD try to claim that it counted as jumping an unmarked practice fence. But that was a bit of a stretch.

So, if you PLAN to jump an unmarked fence, it would be a good idea to check with the TD. But bu any normal reading of the rules it is now permitted.

eventable
May. 23, 2005, 06:33 PM
I would still do it. I've seen some crazy flagging where they've flagged one part of a combination, then expected you to do a full on handbrake to get out of the way of the second (non-flagged) element. I'd rather go straight through and make it easier for everyone!

frugalannie
May. 24, 2005, 04:59 AM
Hey Cluesgirl, based on my not-too-careful reading of your E, they might have been wrong. As long as you go through both of the flags marking the obstacle for your course (in the right direction) it is not an E. How do I know? (Read on if curious)

At Millbrook a couple of years ago, my horse and I went up to the water jump. For our course, it was flagged such that we were to jump down a drop into the water, and they put the white flag right on the corner of the water complex. My mare slowed way down, took a look and a deep breath, and jumped through the flags onto the dry bank to the left. My coach was standing at that obstacle near the TD who found my mare's cleverness quite amusing, and who also advised the jump judge that it was not a stop, an E or anything requiring penalty. Come to think of it, I had another mare do something similar at UNH many years ago, and was able to convince them that it wasn't an E but they gave me 20 penalties anyway.

Moral of the story: go through the flags and then discuss with the TD if you've been "creative".

Ja Da Dee
May. 24, 2005, 06:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have always thought the same thing (which I am pretty sure came from my coach) that you can jump stuff flagged for other levels as long as you jump your own in order as well. Never tried that theory but that is my understanding- rules gurus can tell us if we are wrong </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've one friend who had a ditchy horse and if he got stuck at a training level coffin, she would jump the novice ditch to get his confidence bacck before trying the coffin again. (of course, when the novice ditch was next to the training coffin)

I've another friend who went clear xc but got eliminated because she was wearing a tank top- no sleeves. I think they changed that rule though.

ThirdCharm
May. 24, 2005, 06:53 AM
You still have to have sleeves on xc.

Jennifer

catjumpexpress
May. 24, 2005, 08:21 AM
You need to wear your # (paper or penny) when you and your horse are away from your stall doing anything including grazing, lunging, etc. It's a picky rule but I've seen it happen, more so at FEI level stuff.

ThirdCharm
May. 24, 2005, 08:41 AM
Although not expressly stated (it just says the number must be 'on display'), the horse should be wearing the number, this rule is so in case a horse gets away from its handler, it can be identified and returned.

Jennifer

wendy
May. 24, 2005, 09:51 AM
whoa, I just came from a jump judges briefing, and you cannot jump unflagged obstacles for safety reasons (flagged, it's been recently checked and maintained, unflagged, who knows), you will get eliminated. You also don't get eliminated just for backing up. If the horse jitters around backing up and going forward almost not-moving, you can easily rack up three refusals. But if you smoothly back up and turn and re-approach it's only one refusal.

Janet
May. 24, 2005, 12:49 PM
That may be an individual event's decision to apply the "dangerous riding" rule. And why you should always check with the TD or Pres of GJ.

But there is NOTHING in the rules that specifically addresses jumping unflagged obstacles.

rebeginner
May. 24, 2005, 12:57 PM
OK, now I'm really confused about the unflagged obstacles question. At the last schooling event I did in the spring, it had been raining vigorously for many weeks. There was a watery swale in my approach (and I use the term "approach" loosely) to a fence, and the mare read it as something scary so she jumped it instead of cantering through it. Would that cause an E? No one said anything, and I thought it was funny.

eventable
May. 24, 2005, 02:09 PM
Was talking to someone about it last night. General feeling was that if the unflagged jump you went over was for a higher division, you "might" get done for reckless riding, but this was unlikely to happen. There was a problem at our local course's last event as there was an intermediate fence in the middle of the best track to a prelim fence which was flagged. The riders were told they couldn't jump the int fence to get to the prelim one, but later looked it up in the rules and proved the TD wrong.

CluesGirl
May. 24, 2005, 02:24 PM
frugalannie -

He actually was on the OTHER side of the Novice flags when he actually came through.

I never thought about disputing it because I was on such a high for not only not having a stop at the N table, but actually clearing the T table!!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif No one stopped us, we had two other stops on course at the water, so the E didn't really surprise me too much.

Jumping OVER the water sounds pretty clever to me!! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

persefne
May. 24, 2005, 05:33 PM
Doctormolley: I used your spurs today and when I put them on, they were POINTING UP!!! I switched around the straps so that they are now safely POINTING DOWN (although the nubs are so small, you can hardly tell which is which).

But, the spurs are a side issue, as while schooling your horse today, she prematurely exited the arena 4 times in less than 30 minutes. She did a lovely piaffe before 2 of those unplanned exits, though!!!

eventable
May. 24, 2005, 06:27 PM
I'd like to know, who hasn'thad an unscheduled dressage arena exit? For e.g. Eventable and Arnie enter working trot at A. C, track right, A exit canter full-pass...

eventjunky
May. 24, 2005, 11:02 PM
so, how about jumpin a fence 'in your way' that is a level higher. This spring I took my prelim horse for a run at training to get her going (mare confidence thing) and by the end she was going so well I added a fence before the training water (prelim table, would have confused the horse to go around it and right away jump rails into water. I hear many training horses came unglued at this question) and second to last fence we galloped right by a prelim oxer I added too. No problems and they felt easy but a friend said later that they could have E'd me. The TD never said any thing even though I discussed changing stadiums times because of riding two horses and that horse won the event! Any body know the real rules?

FlightCheck
May. 25, 2005, 04:01 AM
You CAN jumped flagged obstacles.

I was at Poplar this spring (announcing from the tower), and someone was jumping a few Prelims during their training run. The P.O.G.J. (Karen Winn) several times radio'd the fence judges that it was fine, as long as she was jumping her Training fences in the correct order.

It is not uncommon down here in the winter months to see the "BNR" on greenies take them through the Novice water way first before the Training, etc....or to jump the N/BN ditches before the Training ones come up on coursel

piaffeprincess98
May. 25, 2005, 04:47 AM
I've missed a fence on XC before. It was my first prelim and I was so nervous. I also had an awesome prelim round last spring at CDCTA with one rail down (very good for my horse) and I was going clockwise down the last combination along the longside and finished the course and Sam drifted right as he always does over fences, and we just passed right by the timers which were about 4 strides after the fence. I was SO disappointed. Now I always make sure to think of the timers as the last fence so I don't forget them and I always walk through them when walking the course.

Scaramouch
May. 25, 2005, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eventable:
I'd like to know, who hasn'thad an unscheduled dressage arena exit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me. But you should have seen the reining horse moves we had to do to prevent it! E.g. AHHHHHH, Red, NOOOOOOOOO, we have to stay in the arena! *Sliding stop just as we get to the tiny white rail*

Invested1
May. 25, 2005, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scaramouch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eventable:
I'd like to know, who hasn'thad an unscheduled dressage arena exit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you knocked on wood as you typed that!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Seriously though, you'd better tell us if you have an unscheduled exit on your next dressage test. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Janet
May. 25, 2005, 08:09 AM
I haven't had an unsheduled arena exit in an event or combined test. We save that for dressage shows!

Janet
May. 25, 2005, 08:10 AM
Back in the early 70s, I got completely lost on the cross country course. it was particularly frustrating because I was in first after dresage.

eventer_mi
May. 25, 2005, 10:04 AM
Never school your horse over telephone poles as xc if your dressage test will be held in an arena that's bordered by telephone poles.

Yes, I admit, I got the big "E" for jumping sideways over the telephone pole boundary when attempting a canter depart. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Blugal
May. 25, 2005, 10:45 AM
If you think you'll forget your XC for any reason, carry the map!
My coach can very occasionally be seen hauling up her horse, whipping out a XC map, finding her way, and back into gallop. Riding 4 or 5 horses at an event where the jumps haven't changed too much but the routes have over the last 10 years is tough!

I also did that when I had 2 horses with diff. courses and was nervous about one, so I worried about finding my way in all the millions of crossing paths in the trees. Deep breath, halt, find the map, continue.

oskaar
May. 25, 2005, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blugal:
If you think you'll forget your XC for any reason, carry the map!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was at an event where the TD took the map away from a kid--she said it was unauthorized assistance. I could not find anything in the rule book about it (I actually read it!), but has anyone seen this before?

Janet
May. 25, 2005, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blugal:
If you think you'll forget your XC for any reason, carry the map!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was at an event where the TD took the map away from a kid--she said it was unauthorized assistance. I could not find anything in the rule book about it (I actually read it!), but has anyone seen this before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>THAT is a case worth appealing. Did he eliminate her, or jsut tell her not to do it?

lizathenag
May. 25, 2005, 11:59 AM
At a pony club national rally in the 70's (I think at the Firestones), I was cantering down the longside of the dressage arena and somehow my horse got a leg over the rail. I got that leg back in but another went out and so on and so on until sadly, each leg left the arena and Col. Thackery run the bell. He said it was a nice test until then but all four feet had left the arena!

At another rally, I think it was NY/Upper Conn regional (B team-no Cs at rally then), one of the first obstacles was a flagged piece of a real stone wall between two fields. Everyone says I cheerfully galloped up and jumped the wall not between the flags. I have no memory of missing those flags but that NEVER HAPPENED AGAIN!!
so I went to my first National RAlly as stable manager (that was Nashville).

nice trip down memory lane i guess!

Blugal
May. 25, 2005, 12:11 PM
I can't see any rule that says you can't have a map - you're allowed to write your optimum time on your hand after all. You could trace the map on your hand too then right?

wendy
May. 25, 2005, 12:14 PM
again from the same jump judges meeting, we were told it was just fine for people to jump flagged jumps that weren't part of their division. I actually once watched a novice rider, clearly very confused, carefully jump every single flagged jump in one area (there was a cluster, BN to P), just to make sure she got the correct jump.

none...
May. 25, 2005, 12:16 PM
OK, so then another question about jumping flagged fences...

What happens if you get a stop (or two!) at a flagged fence, but not on your course. Like someone said, attempting the novice water before the training water and having a stop. Would that be 20pts?

Janet
May. 25, 2005, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by *Eventer Allie*:
OK, so then another question about jumping flagged fences...

What happens if you get a stop (or two!) at a flagged fence, but not on your course. Like someone said, attempting the novice water before the training water and having a stop. Would that be 20pts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just time. As long as it is VERY CLEAR that you are not "presenting" to the correct fence.

Jimmy tells his students that, if they are doing something slightly unorthodox, they should LOUDLY proclaim what they are doing. "I am taking the alternate route." "I am going to circle before I present." "I am going to jump the Novice water before I present tot he Training water."

Scaramouch
May. 25, 2005, 01:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Invested1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scaramouch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eventable:
I'd like to know, who hasn'thad an unscheduled dressage arena exit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you knocked on wood as you typed that!! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Seriously though, you'd better tell us if you have an unscheduled exit on your next dressage test. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will. But I did admit how dangerously close we have come. I guess I'm just lucky that Red finds the little white fence far too scary to jump(so far).

Dr. Doolittle
May. 25, 2005, 01:32 PM
This is all very interesting--Mr. Dr. D is jump judging at the CDCTA HT this weekend, and I'm going to make him read this thread beforehand! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Judi
May. 25, 2005, 03:31 PM
At Galway last month the Novice course had a water element (that wasn't flagged) in front of a coop. There was a good 3 strides of dry land after the water before the coop but if you wanted a straight approach to the jump you needed to go down into and through this small pond full of black water with a very squishy sandy footing. Rainier is a BIG CHICKEN at water.. He always goes but if there is ANY WAY he can go around the water he will try. When I walked the course with my trainier we discussed his issues and how I would handle a disobedience there. I knew I could school at the water without getting a refusal but we were in 2nd after Dressage and Stadium and we didn't want to waste too much time there. So we had a Plan B if he it looked like too much drama... we would just skirt the pond and jump the coop at an angle.

Well on course, as expected, he was adament about not going in the black, scary, sludgy water... and started shying and sidepassing along the edge.. so I decided to go for plan B and started to go around the edge.. but by this time the DRAMA was so big for him that he wouldn't hug the water line and he was shying WAY away from the edge... leaving me no clear track to the upcoming coop. So I decided to walk him toward the water and made him side pass all the way around the edge while keeping him deliberately turned away from the coop and we side passed until he was standing with his butt facing the coop and his front feet trembling at the edge of the scary black pond. I then wheeled him around so that he saw the coop... took two strides and jumped.

Whew!!!!

We then galloped at Training Pace to make time. We ended up winning that day but man was that close.... Ummm.... thinking 'ol Rainier and I need to work on those little pond water obstacles that he can go around easily... cuz.. next time I'm not going to be so lucky.

bonstet
May. 25, 2005, 08:47 PM
Used galloping boots and running martingale to warm up for dressage. Had martingale tied up to go into test - forgot to remove galloping boots.

Saluted stadium judge, judge tipped hat to me, I started on course, only to have elimination whistle sounded. Judge must give an AUDIBLE signal. Turns out he tipped his hat to me as a courtesy and I, in my excitement at my first event, started before he had blown the start whistle. This was before one didn't have to salute and I guess he didn't feel like cutting me a break.

At Pony Club Nat'l Champs. (late 80's in Culpeper), one of our teammates was blazing around cross country, having an awesome trip, and proceeded to head to the first jump on course and then go through the finish timers. Jump 1 was about 20 yards from the final jump - she jumped the first jump backwards, thinking it was the last jump. All while we were watching in horror, but couldn't give any unauthorized assistance.

Janet
May. 26, 2005, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Saluted stadium judge, judge tipped hat to me, I started on course, only to have elimination whistle sounded. Judge must give an AUDIBLE signal. Turns out he tipped his hat to me as a courtesy and I, in my excitement at my first event, started before he had blown the start whistle. This was before one didn't have to salute and I guess he didn't feel like cutting me a break. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Whether or not you salute the judge. Whether or not the judge salutes back. You ALWAYS have to wait for the whistle.

Janet
May. 26, 2005, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">At Pony Club Nat'l Champs. (late 80's in Culpeper), one of our teammates was blazing around cross country, having an awesome trip, and proceeded to head to the first jump on course and then go through the finish timers. Jump 1 was about 20 yards from the final jump - she jumped the first jump backwards, thinking it was the last jump. All while we were watching in horror, but couldn't give any unauthorized assistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That happened at least once in the regular HT too.

olympicprincess
May. 26, 2005, 12:18 PM
I've also done the wrong flags at a Pony Club rally-- and I had the 2nd best dressage score of the day and had gone clear XC for my team. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jleegriffith:
Yep..last weekend. If you fall in stadium you must remount and present to the next fence in 45 seconds. If you are past the 45 seconds you are eliminated. I could have gotten on faster if my horse was smaller and I was more flexible and wasn't so stunned that I fell in the first place http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif
BTW-if you knock the fence down and fall off. You still must be on in the 45 seconds and present to the fence. If they are not done building the fence they will blow the whistle on your approach. You can stop and then they will blow the whistle when you can start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow. I need to re-read the Rule Book myself! http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/uhoh.gif
Didn't it used to be 1st fall of rider in stadium was elimination??
I was confused, as the paramedics were taking me to their truck, that one of the event people was asking if I was "retiring" after I fell & was getting assistance (got my head knocked). I was too dizzy...and I'm fairly sure I also exceeded time.
and I think my horse left the arena http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif...is that an elimination in itself?

So would I wait until someone brought me my horse rather than exit to chase him? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

Janet
May. 26, 2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Didn't it used to be 1st fall of rider in stadium was elimination?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope. In fact it USED to be that you weren't eliminated until your THIRD fall in stadium.

Yep, I did that once. Three falls in stadium.

oskaar
May. 27, 2005, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Janet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oskaar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blugal:
If you think you'll forget your XC for any reason, carry the map!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was at an event where the TD took the map away from a kid--she said it was unauthorized assistance. I could not find anything in the rule book about it (I actually read it!), but has anyone seen this before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>THAT is a case worth appealing. Did he eliminate her, or jsut tell her not to do it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, she just pulled the map, as it was before she went out on course. I've carried a map before, but never had to use it (I can't read and gallop). I do have a friend however, who is multitalented, and I have seen her flying around with a paper in hand, navigating her next jump.

oskaar
May. 27, 2005, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Janet:
Back in the early 70s, I got completely lost on the cross country course. it was particularly frustrating because I was in first after dresage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Been there. I took my mom's mare to her first Prelim at the old Longleaf. Won the dressage, and she jumped everything beautifully. Too bad I rode into one of the wrong pastures (it was several properties put together for the course), got lost, and had 47 time penalties. I had gone to the event with a friend and was seriously gloating over my dressage win. I will never hear the end of those time faults.

alderaan
May. 28, 2005, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flypony74:
The only time I have gotten the big "E" was by going off course on stadium. It was the dumbest thing I ever did. I was a seasoned competitor, not a newbie...so I had no excuse! I came off a fence and totally blanked out, and just cantered around for a moment hoping I would remember my course! Then, then whistle...

Luckily, they took pity on me and let me run x-c the next day, since I wasn't a safety issue (just stupid!). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

aw man...they can eliminate you for going off course even once, even if you go back and jump the correct fence after? I'm gonna have to be REALLY careful this summer - I notoriously blank out and go off course! (This will be my first year eventing - and yes my one goal is to not get eliminated http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif)

Painted Wings
May. 30, 2005, 02:43 PM
Here are things I've seen newbies get eliminated for:

boots and/or martingales in dressage
jumping warmup fence the wrong way
knocking a fence down during a refusal and not waiting for it to be reset to its original height.
No rein stops on running martingales
Whips too long
spurs too long
wrong bit in dressage
Missing start/finish flags
leaving the arena in dressage
memorizing wrong test
jumping wrong fence

*Trinity*
May. 31, 2005, 01:29 PM
I SWEAR this thread jinxed me! I just came back from an event over the weekend and got eliminated in stadium for not saluting to the judge. I rode around the edge of the ring, and looked for him. I saw some people sitting on a big hay wagon in chairs by the edge, and thought, 'Hmm, they don't LOOK like judges...' and rode past. (Good thing I did, because they weren't!) I glanced over at the big, white, box that SHOULD be holding a judge and didn't see one. So, I just started and thought, 'How strange to not have a judge!" I thought nothing of waiting for a whistle. HELLO!!!! I don't know how I missed seeing the judge, but he called me over after my near perfect round and I said, "Oh, THERE you are!" He was quite gracious about it, and laughed. However, I still earned the big, fat E. Thanks for jinxing me, guys!

Janet
May. 31, 2005, 01:43 PM
Did you get eliminated for "not saluting the judge", or for "starting before the signal"?

I don't know about Canadian rules, but in the US you would NOT be eliminated for "not saluting the judge", but you WOULD be eliminated for "not waiting for the signal".

And it is quite possible for the judge to wait for you to salute before giving the signal.

*Trinity*
May. 31, 2005, 01:53 PM
Janet, yes, you're right, I did get eliminated for not waiting for the signal - but you don't get the signal until you salute.

FoxChaser
Jun. 6, 2005, 07:33 AM
I am super glad that FlightCheck started this post- it has been very informative. We showed up at IEA this weekend. For those of you who have never showed at the Hoosier Horse Park, they like to place the first jump just a few strides from the start box. My horse has been suffering from first-fence-itis in his first two horse trials (BN OTTB greenie), so this was THE fence I worried about on x-c. I remembered reading a post on this thread about how you could be "creative" and not present a fence, but could intentionally circle, however you needed to let the fence judge know what you were doing. As we went out of the start box at an angle, I yelled "Judge, I am not presenting the first fence!", circled and took it. No refusal http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks for the good info!!!