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View Full Version : Jumping xc 'out of stride' vs collected



Afire At Night
Apr. 4, 2011, 08:09 PM
So I've heard/read a bit about both, jumping cross country jumps out of stride (or is it in stride?:confused:) (seems to be more what was done 'back in the day'?) versus a more collected approach (warmblood influence?). I'd like to learn more/hear your guys' opinion about both styles and what's seen more today, and whats effective, especially for different kinds of horses and jumps.
Thanks! :D

deltawave
Apr. 4, 2011, 08:27 PM
Well, ideally you have ALL the tools in your toolbox before you tackle any serious jumps: the ability to add a stride, leave one out, package the horse, take a flyer, etc.

On any given course you may need to do all of the above, intentionally. It doesn't really count as a competent choice if you left one out when the question called for adding a stride. :lol:

I don't think that courses below Prelim really require a fully developed horse with fifteen gears, but the upper levels sure do. And even at Novice or Training, the best looking rides are those where horse and rider have some ability to adjust the stride, pace, and degree of collection to the demands of the course. Effortlessly (or its appearance) is a bonus. ;)

scubed
Apr. 4, 2011, 08:31 PM
It is certainly highly fence dependent. There are reasons that eventing is rife with phrases like, "coffin canter" "fly fence" etc.
And with the possible exception of steeplechasing, I don't think you ever don't do some version of setting up for a fence.

Fences that are more vertical, more technical, parts of combinations, especially when set shorter all require a more compact stride than fences with a more forgiving profile set uphill, etc. I don't think the type of horse matters so much as the type of fence, although some horses are certainly better at dealing with our failure to develop the right canter than are others

Flipper
Apr. 4, 2011, 08:38 PM
Not an expert, but have learned from a few. Regardless of the breed, at the very basic, you want to have the front end of the horse 'up' and the hind end 'under' the horse. For every jump. The horse needs to be balanced. Some jumps are designed (ie, ramp-type jumps) so that the horse can naturally take it 'out of stride' - but the basics remain the same - the horse still needs to be balanced!

bornfreenowexpensive
Apr. 4, 2011, 09:39 PM
Ideally every fence should be jumped out of stride....it is the length of stride and speed that changes depending on the fence/terrain/combination. ;) ...and is what has been done since the begining of eventing.

Some courses will have a better "flow" but that has always been the case too. What many complained about for a period of time (and I think that is what the OP is hearing) is that many courses seemed to lack that good flow. But that has nothing to do with jumping a jump out of stride.

Bobthehorse
Apr. 4, 2011, 10:30 PM
I dont think of those two things as different "styles" of riding at all. Some fences call for jumping out of stride, some call for more precision. And neither has anything to do with WBs or time period (but both are the terms due jour I guess). Courses have always required both cleverness and boldness, and control and accuracy as well. Just as WBs have always been a part in this sport.

Xc is full of different questions, and as each horse/rider has their strengths and weaknesses, they may find certain ones harder than others. Straightforward galloping fences are questions of boldness and work better jumped out of strides. But things like water jumps, coffins, banks, etc just cant be jumped this way, and require a certain degree of precision and control and in most cases a decrease in speed. So horses/riders need to be able to do both, and there is nothing wring with either.

BaroquePony
Apr. 5, 2011, 12:00 AM
Bobthehorse:

Courses have always required both cleverness and boldness, and control and accuracy as well.

Dressage over fences :yes:.

yellowbritches
Apr. 5, 2011, 10:04 AM
Ditto pretty much word for word scubed and bfne.

Only thing I'll add is some of it is level dependent, as well. BN and N should really require very, very little rhythm change...most questions at that level should all safely and easily be jumped out of the same type of rhythm. At training you will start to see more questions that ask for a different rhythm for certain questions, and once you hit prelim, you should see a big variety of forward rhythm "fly" fences and questions that ask for more of a "coffin" canter.

snoopy
Apr. 5, 2011, 12:20 PM
Ideally every fence should be jumped out of stride....it is the length of stride and speed that changes depending on the fence/terrain/combination. ;) ...and is what has been done since the begining of eventing.


....and that's a fact jack! :yes::yes::yes:

Hilary
Apr. 5, 2011, 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;5528825]Ideally every fence should be jumped out of stride....it is the length of stride and speed that changes depending on the fence/terrain/combination. ;) ...and is what has been done since the begining of eventing.
QUOTE]

This was my first thought. I think a lot of people misinterpret what it means - when you are flying along and the horse takes a long spot over a nice round coopy thing, people say "oh he jumped it right out of stride" meaning they didn't feel him have to adjust himself to slam in a short one so he doesn't go tumbling.

You should be "jumping out of stride' no matter what kind of canter you have, and what you shouldn't feel is a big adjustment (usually by the horse) half a stride out when he says "oh crap, I can't take off from H E R E , I need to get closer but only really have room for a stutter step."

When you have felt the horse under you jump from a powerful and balanced canter or gallop, you know it - and never want to jump a fence in any other manner. But that can take the form of a coffin canter or a galloping brush fence.