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Mayaty02
Mar. 31, 2011, 07:32 PM
Hi all, doing a tack room cleanout and tasked with selling some saddles for BO. Came across a Crosby pony saddle (with the Millers mark). It has a serial number, does anyone know how to get in touch with them to get more information including age, size, model?

Alternately, can anyone help me with the model name from this description? It's flat with no knee rolls, however there is a knee block under the plain flap. It's a size 15...can get pics tomorrow, but hoping someone can tell me if they made a pony saddle and what it was called. Thanks!

sooner
Mar. 31, 2011, 09:35 PM
Since Miller's been gone for quite some time now it's impossible to track. But back in the day they did offer an Prix de Nations pony saddle, plain flap with pencil knee roll. That would be my bet anyway. Any photos?

alto
Mar. 31, 2011, 10:28 PM
You might try sending a pm off to PROTACKGUY - he posts here occasionally still & has a wealth of saddle/leather knowledge: I'd buy any book he'd care to write :yes:

mvp
Apr. 1, 2011, 06:13 AM
Not impossible to track-- but a PITA for all involved.

Crosby saddles have always been built by the Walsall Riding Saddle Co. They have serial numbers on file that go way, way back. I had someone in the tack industry help me try to find some info for a very unusual Crosby I had (we wanted to know what modern tree was close in shape). I think some e-mail was involved, but it took time.

I really wouldn't go this direction first for your purposes. It's more work for you and for them than it's worth. If you post pictures here, I think some old timer saddle afficionado can tell you what you want to know.

My off-the-wall guess? It might be an Equilibrium. There were a few models built with a plain flap and "pencil roll" kind of curved knee block on the top side of the sweat flap. Some of the Equilibrium saddles had those, so did the Mark VI (?) I believe. The Mark Whatever would have been built in havana smooth calf, the Equilibrium in lighter colored printed leather. I have never seen either one in a 15".

Mayaty02
Apr. 1, 2011, 07:03 AM
thanks guys, I will clean it up and post a pic today...I have never seen a pony PDN but I suppose it could be.

Mayaty02
Apr. 1, 2011, 08:07 AM
http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/46350/2463730700100098149S425x425Q85.jpg (http://family.webshots.com/photo/2463730700100098149DBZnYM)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/44752/2993022680100098149S425x425Q85.jpg (http://family.webshots.com/photo/2993022680100098149MwDYfa)

If anyone can identify, let me know! Also, it appears to be a pony saddle, it is stamped W on the stirrup bar. Does that mean it's a wide tree? And lastly when I measure it from the middle of the button to the middle of the cantle, I get 15.25, which it clearly can't be. If I measure from the front of the button to the middle of the cantle, it measures 15.5, should I assume it's a 15.5?

Oh and in case anyone is an expert, the numbers on it are:

6 11 3882
4502

Chall
Apr. 1, 2011, 08:26 AM
It looks like my Equilibrium close-contact from Millers :)

alto
Apr. 1, 2011, 11:26 AM
There certainly are 15 1/4 pony saddles so for the sales add I'd just list it as 15 1/4 - 15 1/2 (that way you're covered either way :) ). I always measure middle of button but really that 1/4 inch difference is not relevant: even saddles direct from the manufacturer often vary by 0.25 - 0.75 inches - size measurement is based on the tree of the saddle so depending on the finished seat, there is always variance.

It looks to be in nice condition, you did an excellent job on the clean-up.

mvp
Apr. 1, 2011, 01:13 PM
Yes, saddles can measure "off" by 1/4 inch-- it depends on exactly where they put the nail. You do measure to the middle of the nailhead, so give your actual measurement in your ad, but let them know what size--15 or 15.5"-- you think the saddle "rides like."

Equilibrium? Humm. It could be an early model, but I remember those having a bit more of a cutback head. I also remember those having all dark leather-- no new market panels or knee blocks. I could be wrong for early Equilibrium saddles. Also, is the seat calf or pig skin?

It looks like an unusual Sovereign to me-- that's a PdN in bridle leather (havana calf). That was the luxury version of the PdN. Those had blond panels and a calf seat.

So... this is a Wide pony saddle with a bit of a knee roll in good shape, made by a great saddle company and pretty? I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell it. I also wouldn't give it a bargain basement price. Pessoa pony saddles hold their value. I think the quality and balance of this one is probably comparable and the Wide tree makes it dang useful. You have something unusual and nice there. It will last you or many owners a long time.

Mayaty02
Apr. 1, 2011, 01:18 PM
thanks guys, I will describe the measurement best I can. I agree it's a lovely saddle. My daughter already has a 15 in Pessoa otherwise I might consider it myself. But BO has about 10 saddles she needs to clear out and this is one of them...to ebay it goes!

PS It's not a Sovereign - I had one and it's definitely not the nice bridle leather, its similar to the normal PDN leather, but it's newer than the PDNs that I knew back in the day...

Guin
Apr. 2, 2011, 07:15 PM
It's gorgeous. It could certainly be a 15 1/4. If I had a small person, I'd buy it!

PROTACKGUY
Apr. 8, 2011, 09:39 AM
Equilibrium w/ plain flaps ? No they never offered such a model.
The saddle looks pretty much like one of the standard PDN childs models.
Model # 4502 It was available in 13, 14, 15 & 16" seats.

In regards to the idea of what a PDN was like, over their history they adapted with the times and seat depth, knee pads, rolls and panel thicknesses would change so that their is no " TRUE PDN" but a series of PDN saddles that evolved over time.



The panels were generally lighter in color than the body of the saddle. The leather was made in a grained finish English Sedgewick leather.

Crosby sizes were all even sizes. Howver the placement of the nail head was not always exact and thus the measurment could not always be relied upon.

Mayaty02
Apr. 8, 2011, 09:45 AM
That's it! Thanks protackguy...any guesses on the age? I'm thinking mid 90s.

and yes I've determined it's a 15...but measures a hair bigger. thanks everyone!!

PROTACKGUY
Apr. 8, 2011, 09:48 AM
No way of telling the age, but by the mid 90's not a lot of plain flap saddles being sold.. I would guess the 80's. But I really do not know.

Mayaty02
Apr. 8, 2011, 10:04 AM
Thanks! maybe it's early 90s...its definitley newer than my 86 PDN just based on style and knee rolls