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CosMonster
Mar. 21, 2011, 02:58 PM
I put this in Around the Farm since it is on my goat. Some of you read about little Ollie and his dog attack. Well, he has been doing really well but I was starting to get a bit concerned about how the wound was healing. I thought it was maybe a little infected, the vet said he thought it would be fine, we'd just continue the antibiotics Ollie is on. He also wanted me to just wash it once a day and keep it bandaged the rest of the time.

Well, I went out to clean it this morning and apparently bugs had gotten in under the bandage because there were maggots in it. Like, a ton of maggots. (we really need a puking icon). The good news is that they ate all the tissue I thought was infected. The bad news is that, well, maggots.

I put in a call to my vet and he was just going into surgery, but he said to flush the wound with saline to remove the maggots. That got most of them out but I had to use tweezers to get a few of them. It was not a pleasant start to my day. Then I rinsed it with propolis and put a clean bandage on, figuring I'd wait to put any of the topical stuff we were using until I got to talk to my vet in more detail.

So, is this a really bad sign, a good sign, or meaningless? I have literally never seen maggots in a wound before, it was really disgusting but I have to admit the wound does look better. I couldn't believe how quickly they came on, either. I mean, I had just cleaned it like 24 hours ago. I looked it up, though, and apparently they hatch within a day.

Which also makes me wonder, should I go back to 2x/day cleaning? The vet was worried I was overdoing it, but after only 3 days of once a day cleaning we had maggots. It's not like I was scrubbing the wound or anything, I was just rinsing and redressing it. The big reason I was doing it twice a day was because the wound is in a hard spot to bandage (on his ribcage and onto the shoulder, so the bandage tends to shift and it's difficult to keep it covering the whole wound) and I was worried that contaminants would get in. Like, you know, bugs.

SBrentnall
Mar. 21, 2011, 03:10 PM
I'm not a vet, but I know that many vets AND doctors use maggots to remove infected tissue from a wound. http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20040920/healing-wounds-with-maggots

jetsmom
Mar. 21, 2011, 03:13 PM
Personally, I would try to clean it maybe every 16 hrs, rather than every 24 or 12. Gives it a little longer between cleanings, but not quite so long as 24 hrs.

The maggot thing is disgusting, but not a huge detriment. But I wouldn't want them back. Is wearing a fly sheet an option? Or a person's T shirt? Or SWAT around the wound, but not in it or above it so it won't melt into the wound.

Chardavej
Mar. 21, 2011, 03:15 PM
From what I understand, it might actually be a good thing, as they, from what I've heard and read in the past, will only eat the dead tissue and will clean up a wound.

I know they used to put maggots in peoples ears that had ear infections and closed up the ear for a few days. I couldn't handle that! I would feel and HEAR them moving, ICK! And would be imagining them moving into my sinuses and down my throat, oh God!!

RougeEmpire
Mar. 21, 2011, 03:35 PM
Maggots eat necrotic and decaying flesh. They are "carrion eaters" meaning that they do not eat fresh or live flesh. This is good and bad. The bad is that your animal has dead and dying flesh, the good is that the maggots are cleaning up that dead and dying flesh which allows fresh, new healthy flesh to grow without getting infect by the dead and dying.

CosMonster
Mar. 21, 2011, 03:43 PM
I knew that doctors use sterile maggots sometimes in hospital settings, but I didn't know if just any maggot would do. Apparently so, though, since I was talking with a client who is an ER doctor and he was saying that he always took maggots in wounds of transients or others who probably hadn't been able to keep it clean to be a good thing as it meant the wound probably wouldn't be too infected.

I appreciate the reassurances. There was kind of a visceral reaction when I first saw it, I think I even made a noise. And I am NOT easily grossed out. I've been around horses since I was a little kid, interned with a vet for a year in high school, am a professional trainer and work with rescues and all that... I have seen a lot of gross things in animals but this was a first. I knew logically that maggots at least probably wouldn't hurt but man... :lol:

jetsmom, a tee shirt is a really good idea. Ollie is a baby Nigerian Dwarf so he is too small for even the smallest fly sheet, but I bet I've got an old tee shirt floating around to keep the bugs off.

Chardavej, that gave me the shudders just reading about it. I can't even stand having an itch in my ear, much less a maggot moving around in there! :eek:

Also, I should add that Ollie is officially the best goat ever. I was having to do some poking and prodding to bring all the maggots up to where I could easily grab them with tweezers and also I accidentally poked him once or twice, and all he did was stand there and stamp his feet when I hurt him. It was kind of cute, he'd stamp and toss his head then look up at me and nibble on my nose if I was close enough. I love this goat.

I really do think the maggots helped, too. A big reason I was worried about infection was that the wound looked a little...wrong to me (there weren't obvious signs of it like pus or discoloration, but it looked different than it had and didn't seem to be scabbing over like the vet wanted) and the edges seemed warmer. Now the extra heat is gone and it's all just nice pink flesh.

Somermist
Mar. 21, 2011, 05:23 PM
So glad Ollie is doing better. We had one of goats with a head wound develop kind of the same thing. I went to clean the wound and "something" was moving under the skin. I know what you mean, I think I yelled out loud! Luckily nobody heard me but the goat.;) It healed just fine though and we fashioned a fly bonet for him out of a baby hat. He looked ridiculous, but it was good entertainment for us.

Good luck, I am sure he will heal up just fine.:)

Bluey
Mar. 21, 2011, 05:32 PM
I don't know where you are, but if anywhere close to Mexico, I would be worried about screw worms, that are a very dangerous kind of maggot in wildlife and domestic animals, that will kill those infested with them.

Just be sure they are not those and if they are, your Animal Health Department needs to know and will quarantine the area and drop sterile flies:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_SCREWWORMS.HTML

CosMonster
Mar. 21, 2011, 06:35 PM
Bluey, we are relatively close to Mexico in southern/central NM, so thanks for the heads up. My vet just stopped by and said it was nothing to worry about, but thanks to your post (which I saw before he arrived) I could ask about it. Apparently we had what appeared to be common housefly maggots. This is also the first major wound I've dealt with since moving here (previously we were in northern CO or northern NM) so that is good to know about.

Somermist, I'm also glad I'm not the only one with a goat to have developed maggots. I have been feeling like a horrible owner because I let that happen. I guess I was doing everything right for the information I had but still... ;) I'm really glad to hear your goat healed well, I hope Ollie does too!

I'm going to try to get pictures on here soon, since they were requested in the last thread too. I broke my camera and it's been a hassle getting pictures off of it, and I'm trying to put off buying a new one for a month or two until my income picks up again (horse trainer in the land without indoors here :lol:) so I don't have to dip into savings! I'm trying to get you all pictures of the cutest goat ever, though!

Somermist
Mar. 21, 2011, 06:51 PM
Bluey, we are relatively close to Mexico in southern/central NM, so thanks for the heads up. My vet just stopped by and said it was nothing to worry about, but thanks to your post (which I saw before he arrived) I could ask about it. Apparently we had what appeared to be common housefly maggots. This is also the first major wound I've dealt with since moving here (previously we were in northern CO or northern NM) so that is good to know about.

Somermist, I'm also glad I'm not the only one with a goat to have developed maggots. I have been feeling like a horrible owner because I let that happen. I guess I was doing everything right for the information I had but still... ;) I'm really glad to hear your goat healed well, I hope Ollie does too!

I'm going to try to get pictures on here soon, since they were requested in the last thread too. I broke my camera and it's been a hassle getting pictures off of it, and I'm trying to put off buying a new one for a month or two until my income picks up again (horse trainer in the land without indoors here :lol:) so I don't have to dip into savings! I'm trying to get you all pictures of the cutest goat ever, though!

Cos, you are not a bad owner, in fact it sounds like you are a very good one. I thought the same thing when Leonard got the maggots. I thought I was keeping his wound so clean and felt terrible. My vet told me that it was so easy for the flies to lay their eggs in there and it took no time at all. I had mine bandaged too, although he did not like it and it was healing and itched and he would frequently rub the vetwrap bandage off. The baby hat did the trick though. Luckily it is not mid summer. I bet if you keep it covered as best you can it will heal fine. Good luck. And pictures, please!!:winkgrin:

CosMonster
Mar. 21, 2011, 07:08 PM
I'm definitely glad it is so early in the year! We have already been up into the upper 80s so lots of bugs, but at least in the springtime we also have lots of wind to help keep the flying bugs to a minimum. That's why I'm inside posting today, actually--60 mph winds and no indoor = CosMonster taking the day off. ;) But it will help keep the bugs off of Ollie. I went through and cleared the flies out of his little goat house this morning, so hopefully they won't find their way back to him for at least a day or so. Thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your experiences with Leonard! :)

This wound is so deep, it seems hard to keep from being infected. :no: Between the oral antibiotics and a pretty stringent cleaning protocol, though, I'm hopeful. I'm definitely willing to give Ollie all the support he needs, so hopefully it will be enough.

edit: The vet recommended keeping on a 1x/daily cleaning unless the bandage has shifted, in which case we should do 2x/day. Realistically that seems like we're back on a 2x/day schedule, though we are experimenting with a couple of alternative bandaging techniques.

StGermain
Mar. 21, 2011, 08:46 PM
CosMonster - When my old mare had advanced melanoma, she developed maggots in on of the tumor areas that had burst. It was gross, but the vet said they were only eating the necrotic tissue and would do no harm. I did use something similar to this (http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e079d2-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=screw%20worms) which is an aerosol maggot killer. It worked wonderfully. I got it at my local farm store.

StG

mjmvet
Mar. 21, 2011, 11:00 PM
Did your vet suggest giving an injection of ivermectin? That should get the rest of the little buggers.

deckchick
Mar. 21, 2011, 11:25 PM
... That's why I'm inside posting today, actually--60 mph winds and no indoor = CosMonster taking the day off. ;) But it will help keep the bugs off of Ollie. I went through and cleared the flies out of his little goat house this morning, so hopefully they won't find their way back to him for at least a day or so. Thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your experiences with Leonard! :)
...

I am looking at getting a couple of ducks to put in my barnyard for fly control. I have read reports where they claim 80-90% reduction in flies!

You can google " ducks fly control", or read this one report here.

http://www.farmradio.org/english/radio-scripts/31-3script_en.asp

I know I have posted this before, but I am just so excited about maybe being able to get rid of those dang flies naturally and safely! :D

JoanR
Mar. 22, 2011, 02:03 AM
As disgusting as it sounds, there is actually a place that ships vets packets of sterile maggots to use for treatments. A friend's vet used them for massive abscesses in a horse that was foundering, to eat the necrotic tissue so they would not have to be carving in the compromised foot. They came in net-like thing and the vet packed them into the hoof and wrapped it. Apparently it is an "old world" treatment that still has some value. So perhaps you just got a valuable treatment for FREE! My friend paid $100 for each packet of maggots. Of course they were sterile maggots and nicely packaged, but expensive! I have been thinkibg about Ollie and hoping he is improving. Your love and devotion to the little critter is so obvious! Tell him to keep up the good work and get back to 100%!!

jetsmom
Mar. 22, 2011, 02:19 AM
My brother had a part amputated and sewn back on and they used Leech therapy daily to prevent clots and keep blood flowing. (My brother likes to fish, and asked what they do with them afterwards, and when he heard they kill/dispose of them, he said they'd probably make good bait, and asked if he could have them. They politely said "No".:lol:)

Guin
Mar. 22, 2011, 08:08 AM
My brother had a part amputated and sewn back on and they used Leech therapy daily to prevent clots and keep blood flowing. (My brother likes to fish, and asked what they do with them afterwards, and when he heard they kill/dispose of them, he said they'd probably make good bait, and asked if he could have them. They politely said "No".:lol:)

Your brother sounds wonderful! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

CosMonster
Mar. 22, 2011, 01:24 PM
Did your vet suggest giving an injection of ivermectin? That should get the rest of the little buggers.

He didn't suggest that. He did say that we shouldn't do anything to kill any that might be in there, because they can cause an infection if they die inside the wound. Since it is a very deep wound we were a little worried we might have missed some. Is that something I should look into more?

There were a few on there when I went out last night, but I flushed it really well again and it was clean this morning so hopefully that is the last of them!

Zu Zu
Mar. 22, 2011, 01:29 PM
JINGLES FOR OLLIE ```

goeslikestink
Mar. 22, 2011, 01:56 PM
I put this in Around the Farm since it is on my goat. Some of you read about little Ollie and his dog attack. Well, he has been doing really well but I was starting to get a bit concerned about how the wound was healing. I thought it was maybe a little infected, the vet said he thought it would be fine, we'd just continue the antibiotics Ollie is on. He also wanted me to just wash it once a day and keep it bandaged the rest of the time.

Well, I went out to clean it this morning and apparently bugs had gotten in under the bandage because there were maggots in it. Like, a ton of maggots. (we really need a puking icon). The good news is that they ate all the tissue I thought was infected. The bad news is that, well, maggots.

I put in a call to my vet and he was just going into surgery, but he said to flush the wound with saline to remove the maggots. That got most of them out but I had to use tweezers to get a few of them. It was not a pleasant start to my day. Then I rinsed it with propolis and put a clean bandage on, figuring I'd wait to put any of the topical stuff we were using until I got to talk to my vet in more detail.

So, is this a really bad sign, a good sign, or meaningless? I have literally never seen maggots in a wound before, it was really disgusting but I have to admit the wound does look better. I couldn't believe how quickly they came on, either. I mean, I had just cleaned it like 24 hours ago. I looked it up, though, and apparently they hatch within a day.

Which also makes me wonder, should I go back to 2x/day cleaning? The vet was worried I was overdoing it, but after only 3 days of once a day cleaning we had maggots. It's not like I was scrubbing the wound or anything, I was just rinsing and redressing it. The big reason I was doing it twice a day was because the wound is in a hard spot to bandage (on his ribcage and onto the shoulder, so the bandage tends to shift and it's difficult to keep it covering the whole wound) and I was worried that contaminants would get in. Like, you know, bugs.

you can use kayolin poultice and you can apply it hot it doesnt require bandages its made for areas like abcesses and open wounds that cant be covered and it washes off
you can aply it twice a day and it will keep the wound clean and will draw out any infection and you can also run it pass your vet for confirmation