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View Full Version : Trailering to Horse Show



Stella D'Oro
Mar. 20, 2011, 07:24 PM
Does anyone know how much I should charge per mile for shipping a horse to a horse show? We live in PA and was wondering if anyone had suggestions on what the average fee would be. Thanks:)

EverAfter
Mar. 20, 2011, 07:31 PM
I think the average is 80 cents a mile..

Bogie
Mar. 20, 2011, 07:34 PM
Just remember that if you start charging for trailering you are considered to be a commercial shipper and your liability increases.

I would check with your insurance agent before accepting money to see if you would be adversely impacted if there were an accident or if the horse you are trailering got injured.

nlk
Mar. 20, 2011, 07:49 PM
around here cheap is $1.00 per mile. with gas prices going up (and diesel) I imagine hauling will be going up to...

SanJacMonument
Mar. 20, 2011, 07:51 PM
Stella are you a trainer? Most trainers in my area - Texas - charge .50 per mile but not less than $50 round-trip.

RAyers
Mar. 20, 2011, 08:06 PM
Just remember, if you are not a licensed commercial hauler, a professional trainer or owner of a farm, you can be nailed both criminally and civilly if anything happens to the horse. I learned the hard way but was lucky that the authorities and others involved were more understanding.

Bogie
Mar. 20, 2011, 08:28 PM
I have read that if you trailer other people's horses frequently you should get care/custody/control insurance. Does anyone do that?

3 is the limit
Mar. 20, 2011, 09:07 PM
In CA my hauler gets $2.00/mile with a $100 minimum fee.

stillknotreel
Mar. 21, 2011, 09:07 AM
Just remember, if you are not a licensed commercial hauler, a professional trainer or owner of a farm, you can be nailed both criminally and civilly if anything happens to the horse. I learned the hard way but was lucky that the authorities and others involved were more understanding.

One other thing to remember. If you are hauling a truck/trailer combo that is over 26,000 lbs for NON-PERSONAL use you need to have the appropriate licensing (class A, class B etc). Most one ton trucks and four horse head to head and larger combos are over the 26k limit. I'd hate to see you get bagged as the consequences aren't fun. And as everyone else said, watch out for liability and the criminal/civil aspect as well. We have had to post on all our trailers (horse, car etc.) that we are "Private. Not for Hire". If you are hauling privately, they do waive the licensing, but commercial is a completely different story.

findeight
Mar. 21, 2011, 11:02 AM
We had a poster on here several years ago with this screen name? That one was a (competent) young trainer and would know most of this so am guessing this is a new poster??? Maybe who bought that mare with the same name?

Probably $1 a mile with a minimum of $100 or a $50 hook up fee plus $1 a mile or something like that. May be more if you are closer to Philly and a little less around Pittsburg or somewhere in the more rural central part of the state.

And, yeah, you need insurance to charge for it. And should have insurance for "guest horses" if you do it for free or go cash under the table. Because you ARE paying for any injury or illness while on your trailer and under your control.

naters
Mar. 23, 2011, 06:06 PM
What is the concensus on the insurance?


What kind of insurance to get? Basically, I have been asked to do this enough that I am considering making it a business.

Looks like I need to look into a commercial license.... I have a 2500 GMC and a extra tall 2 horse gooseneck, with a double size dressing room.

stillknotreel
Mar. 23, 2011, 06:39 PM
What is the concensus on the insurance?


What kind of insurance to get? Basically, I have been asked to do this enough that I am considering making it a business.

Looks like I need to look into a commercial license.... I have a 2500 GMC and a extra tall 2 horse gooseneck, with a double size dressing room.

You might not have to... I know the Kingston 4-horse head to head with a dressing room comes in at under 15k and if you're towing with a one ton truck (say a F-350) you'll be looking at 26,000 lbs. A 3/4 ton (i.e. a 2500) probably shouldn't push the limits. The 2008 and up F-350's are WAY overweighed. I have a F-250 that they rate at 10,000 lbs.

Just double check. Do you have commercial plates on your vehicle? Most of the time you won't get much flack from DOT or cops. If you're really working as a heavy commercial hauler I'd be cautious. I just throw it out there to keep everyone informed! You could look into your class B, which is a lot easier than a class A. Read your personal state laws. I know plenty of people (I'd say 90%) who tow over 26k and don't have their commercial license.

Just an FYI for everyone.

judybigredpony
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:31 PM
Going rate we pay for race n returns is $2.50 mile for a two horse trailer.

meupatdoes
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:48 PM
Just remember, if you are not a licensed commercial hauler, a professional trainer or owner of a farm, you can be nailed both criminally and civilly if anything happens to the horse. I learned the hard way but was lucky that the authorities and others involved were more understanding.

What makes you a professional trainer for the purposes of this instance?

Do you hand them the last check you earned for pro-rides and riding lessons and say, "Here, look. I'm a pro." (ie, pro by USEF rules somehow counts for state liability law?)

Or do you have to do something additional to be seen as a pro in the eyes of the state?

And what do you mean by "licensed commercial hauler"? Is there some special driver's license you need to go get approved for this or just an extra insurance policy?

naters
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:01 PM
And what do you mean by "licensed commercial hauler"? Is there some special driver's license you need to go get approved for this or just an extra insurance policy?



Ditto this question, and also what extra insurance policy?

RAyers
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:08 PM
What makes you a professional trainer for the purposes of this instance?

Do you hand them the last check you earned for pro-rides and riding lessons and say, "Here, look. I'm a pro." (ie, pro by USEF rules somehow counts for state liability law?)

Or do you have to do something additional to be seen as a pro in the eyes of the state?

And what do you mean by "licensed commercial hauler"? Is there some special driver's license you need to go get approved for this or just an extra insurance policy?


A licensed commercial hauler is one registered with the state as a commercial transportation company (DOT Registered). You need to carry commercial insurance, pay full road taxes, keep logs, etc... You will be issued a transport license for the state you operate. Notice the sides of semis or hot shots where they have a series of stickers or a DOT number is painted.

Even if you haul under 26K pounds you are STILL COMMERCIAL (called hot shots) and need a DOT registration. Yes, at 26,001 pounds you need a CDL.

As for a horse professional, your tax records are sufficient. If your income does not come from agriculture, hauling animals is not part of the business.

Now if you are hauling a friend's horse, even if it for the barn, you are only legally allowed to split the gas. You can not charge a loading fee, insurance, wear and tear on the vehicle etc. even if the trainer does. The moment a loading fee or other is charged you enter the commercial realm.

While many get away with this, I have been in enough incidents around the US to learn my lesson. I was hauling about 40,000 miles a year (charging 50 cents a mile back then in my rig and others) outside my regular job and so sadly I had a few "experiences" (jackknifed on ice in NE, T-boned in CO, pulled over for livestock inspection in TX...).

Now, I only haul for partial gas and only if I am going that way anyway, even if it is 1,000 miles. I also cary a very large umbrella liability policy (over $1mil) just in case. I just can't take the financial risk if a horse that is not mine gets injured while I haul.

Petstorejunkie
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:58 PM
charge .50 per mile but not less than $50 round-trip.This doesn't even meet the 2011 personal vehicle mileage reimbursement rate (which is currently .51 cents a mile) that's how much an employer will reimburse an employee for using their personal vehicle for company purposes.
That means that $1.02 per mile you are barely covering expenses, and not paying yourself for time.

goodmorning
Mar. 23, 2011, 11:11 PM
I spoke with my insurance company after purchasing my trailer. They said that I was allowed to collect gas money, only. I have a 1mil policy as well...

My reimbursement rate is .56/mile, for my car, .50/mile with a horse in tow is very low!

naters
Mar. 24, 2011, 09:05 AM
Now I am really confused.

How is it that "horse professionals" that charge clients to haul to shows/etc don't have to register with DOT then?

Because pretty much anyone around here can hang a shingle and call themselves a horse professional.... How does that exempt them from DOT registration, and extra commercial insurance?

RAyers
Mar. 24, 2011, 09:18 AM
Most of what we are talking about does not kick in unless you are caught, have an accident etc.

A horse professional is one who derives their primary income from horses or agriculture and as such hauling horses/livestock is part of the business. So a rancher, barn owner, breeder, trainer, vet, and their employees etc. all are part of the industry. This is all based on tax records.

If you ONLY haul horses, you are a commercial transporter and as such need to be licensed. If you do not derive your primary income from horses/agriculture, you can not charge more than split costs to haul horses. Like I said, most folks never get caught. However, as goodmorning alluded to, if you get in an accident and it is divulged you charged a "commercial" or "loading" fee, then your insurance can refuse to cover you, DOT can fine you, the horse owners etc. can sue for the liability, the IRS can make a claim against any income and no insurance will cover it.

If you are hauling as an outsider (e.g. for another person in the barn, to help your trainer, whatever) you can not take the mileage reimbursement as again, hauling is not part of you business activities.

HoofaSchmigetty
Mar. 24, 2011, 09:34 AM
To do this legally you need the following....

USDOT #
MC#
Business License and yearly fee
bi-yearly USDOT physical
Sign up for random drug testing (all drivers)
Log Books
Stop at ALL weigh Stations
Commercial Insurance with a min of $300,000 (this DOES NOT COVER HORSES)
Cargo Insurance for the horses
Tow vehicle MUST be lettered and readable from 50 feet
A CDL is required if your Gross Vehicle COMBINED weight rating is over 26,001lbs.
Fuel Taxes aka IFTA
Commercial toll rates...about 6 fold of a reg car. Wanna come to NJ? $28 to cross a bridge.
Shall I keep going?


As far as the trainer that hauls clients horses...as mentioned above...its just a matter of time until they are caught, fined and jailed. Quite frankly, that cant happen too soon!!! Play by the rules...or DONT play!!!

naters
Mar. 24, 2011, 03:14 PM
I don't think anyone was trying to skirt the rules, I think people are just trying to figure out what the rules are.

For instance, my trainer charges clients $x.xx to take their horses to shows. Its part of their business. Per RA's post, that's legal. Per the above post, that's illegal.

So, which one is it? I think I will haul my friend's horse for gas, and a margarita after.

But should my trainer be going to jail if she hauls us to a show and charges us for it? Sounds extreme. I can see where they may have some liability there, but isn't that why we all have to sign these immensely strict liability releases when you board/train with someone?

QM2
Mar. 24, 2011, 03:48 PM
OP- to answer your question, in PA $ the going rate is $25 + $1.00 per mile. I am actually thinking of raising it to $1.25 per mile to cover the rising fuel costs. This is round trip from my farm and back.

Sparky
Mar. 24, 2011, 04:20 PM
To do this legally you need the following....

USDOT #
MC#
Business License and yearly fee
bi-yearly USDOT physical
Sign up for random drug testing (all drivers)
Log Books
Stop at ALL weigh Stations
Commercial Insurance with a min of $300,000 (this DOES NOT COVER HORSES)
Cargo Insurance for the horses
Tow vehicle MUST be lettered and readable from 50 feet
A CDL is required if your Gross Vehicle COMBINED weight rating is over 26,001lbs.
Fuel Taxes aka IFTA
Commercial toll rates...about 6 fold of a reg car. Wanna come to NJ? $28 to cross a bridge.
Shall I keep going?


As far as the trainer that hauls clients horses...as mentioned above...its just a matter of time until they are caught, fined and jailed. Quite frankly, that cant happen too soon!!! Play by the rules...or DONT play!!!

We are finishing complying with all these rules and regs in MN as we speak. Only difference here is the insurance minimum is $750,000. Buckle up everyone--the trooper who has been helping our horse community through this maze says it will be a top priority for state patrols this summer. And FYI, those with "Private Not For Hire" on their rigs will be pulled over and asked to prove it (he says :) So if you have health certs on board with anyone else listed as an owner, you might have some 'splainin to do.

meupatdoes
Mar. 24, 2011, 04:37 PM
Can someone who knows ballpark for me what it costs to get $300,000/$750,000 in commercial insurance?

That is a more helpful number than knowing what the end liability coverage needs to be.

Sparky
Mar. 24, 2011, 08:23 PM
Our insurance bill went up $1500, so I'm assuming that's the cost for $750k coverage.

naters
Mar. 28, 2011, 11:37 AM
1500 a year? Every six months? Whew, that is a lot either way!!

doublesstable
Mar. 28, 2011, 11:45 AM
To do this legally you need the following....

USDOT #
MC#
Business License and yearly fee
bi-yearly USDOT physical
Sign up for random drug testing (all drivers)
Log Books
Stop at ALL weigh Stations
Commercial Insurance with a min of $300,000 (this DOES NOT COVER HORSES)
Cargo Insurance for the horses
Tow vehicle MUST be lettered and readable from 50 feet
A CDL is required if your Gross Vehicle COMBINED weight rating is over 26,001lbs.
Fuel Taxes aka IFTA
Commercial toll rates...about 6 fold of a reg car. Wanna come to NJ? $28 to cross a bridge.
Shall I keep going?


As far as the trainer that hauls clients horses...as mentioned above...its just a matter of time until they are caught, fined and jailed. Quite frankly, that cant happen too soon!!! Play by the rules...or DONT play!!!


IMHO - ^^^ done all that and NEVER again.... All that hassle to haul race horses and the risk, wear and tear on your truck, damage to your trailer and race owners not paying... oh it was fun.

I agree with one of the other posters if you are hauling friends and they want to pitch in for fuel that's where I would leave it. And even beware friends horses can kick or chew up your padding and make sure they are prepared to fix it if their horse damages your stuff. Me personally I steer clear of this unless it's an emergency...

I attended the school of hard knocks!