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cloudy18
Mar. 19, 2011, 08:28 PM
I trot ahead a bit and your horse dances and jigs and is a PITA to ride?

Here's the background: riding on a road, 6 people. Woman with gaited pony goes quite a ways ahead of the group on the way home. Horses are moving faster to begin with just bc we are headed home. And of course they all want to keep up with pony who will surely beat them home and eat all the hay. At some point I let my STB move out a little and of course we pull ahead a bit. My son is on my Morab mare and manages to keep up with the occasional few strides of trotting. After awhile we catch up to gaited pony, then we all wait for the others, then gaited pony goes ahead again.

I am trying to slow my mare but she is tall and walks fast and I am only going to hold her back so much. Come on, the tiny
Morab is keeping up! Meanwhile, someone is growing cranky bc his horse is wanting to trot/jig/whatever and he does not want to keep fighting it. (This is a big horse, he could walk out and keep up). He wants everyone to be by him so his horse settles down and he can drink his beer. I know I am being partially blamed, as well as the rider of the gaited pony.

At some point the 5 of us are fairly together and Mr. Cranky has to pee. He makes some snippy comment about not bothering to wait bc nobody else does, and I say something like, "Oh come on, deal with it, It's not the end of the world." And get an "Eff you" in return.

This has been an issue since last year. His horse is often not happy unless it is in front, but he blames everyone else. The green rider I bring along, my horses, someone else's horse, etc. We all just bite our tongues, but today I couldn't do it. Thought I was trying to be lighthearted, but guess not.

Is it really everyone's responsibility to be that accomodating, or should he suck it up a little and use it as a training experience? My horse was fighting me too, but I chose to ride her rather than blame someone else.

ReSomething
Mar. 19, 2011, 08:42 PM
The rule I grew up with was that you accomodated the slowest, least able rider. I guess the rule was partly so you didn't have to end your ride and go get help for said least able rider if they ended up falling off.

I've had to stay with an injured person while everybody else took off to get help because some yahoo decided to show off and run up onto her horses' butt and she couldn't handle her horse, and it really isn't the way I had planned my ride to end up.

If you are in a group ride where folks are drinking and the alchohol starts talking then maybe it's time to pick a different group with a more similar speed and style.

Equine Senior
Mar. 19, 2011, 10:28 PM
In my experience it is generally considered discourteous to move ahead like you described. If you are in control of your horse you don't need to go at the horse's chosen speed returning to the barn. "I am trying to slow my mare but she is tall and walks fast ".

This probably isn't what you wanted to hear but realize that trail riding is more difficult than riding in a ring where the horse may be bored and not showing his true colors. A good trail rider is a rider that quietly maintains control of his horse or breaks off on his own in a direction that does not excite the other horses.

For me it is better to ride alone than with riders not in control of their horses. Frankly, your whole group sounds like they need some remedial riding lessons.

Cindyg
Mar. 19, 2011, 10:43 PM
While it might not be your "fault," it is certainly an appreciated kindness to accommodate the person whose horse is getting anxious. I know because that is always my horse.

My horse gets seriously scary. I need to walk (not trot, not jig), and I need whoever is riding with me to stay with me. My fear is not just "I don't want to fight him;" it's real fear, as in fear for my life.

And, yes, I know the argument "don't go out if your horse isn't safe." I rarely go out. Most fellow-riders think I'm a wimp and pressure me incessently to go out with them despite the fact that I don't feel my horse is safe out there. It's quite a Catch-22.

I would never ride with somebody drinking beer on the trail. (I need serious riders around me.) I would never ride with somebody who said "eff you" to me. (I need friends around me.) I would also not blame you for my horse's issues.

But, in general, try to have mercy on the guy with the anxious horse.

HorsingRound
Mar. 19, 2011, 10:48 PM
In answer to your question, no it's not your fault if you ride ahead and someone else's horse starts jigging, etc., but...to keep the peace, and so everyone (including the PITA horse's rider) can have a pleasant and safe ride, it is considered courteous and good manners, to stay with the group.

That being said, if you don't enjoy riding at that speed (or if you are unable to rate your horse slower), then perhaps you shouldn't ride with that person. Everyone might be happier, including you, if you rode with people who like going faster or are better able to control their horses.

It's a matter of preference, often. Not necessarily riding experience. Case in point: I belong to two trail riding groups, both with experienced riders and conditioned horses, and both groups prefer rides that are 6-8 hours a day. One group does not like to go faster than 3 or 4 miles per hour because their horses will break into a trot, so I ride at their pace--my gaited horse rates just fine. I also ride with a gaited group and they like to gait fast--11 mph or more--for hours sometimes, and I enjoy riding with them too and expect to go fast when with them. Interestingly, both groups cover about the same mileage on their rides. The slower group stops very infrequently and the faster group needs to rest their horses more often and for longer because of the fast pace.

PRS
Mar. 19, 2011, 10:52 PM
It is generally accepted that when riding in a group you all stay to the speed of the slowest, least able rider. That being said I generally try to choose people to ride with whose riding style is similar to mine. I don't mind the occassional ride with a slower horse/rider combo but I don't enjoy those rides nearly as much as I do when I ride with group of people who like to ride a the same pace as I do.

cloudy18
Mar. 20, 2011, 12:04 AM
Nin, I totally understand your point. My gelding can have days where he can be scary if people decide to lope and the group gets more wound up than normal. I would never ride ahead if someone were having a dangerous issue, and neither would the person who was ahead of me. This was a matter of being pissy bc he wanted a perfect ride on a loose rein. Probably wasn't going to happen on the way home, regardless of whether anyone was in front. Horse isn't anxious, just wants his way. Which presents a problem either way, I know.

The least experienced person in the group was my son, who was having no issues. I do agree with those of you who said it is discourteous-I will admit it was. But even when I was riding with the group his horse was doing this. And then he was blaming the person who was way in front of us. I just thought he should suck it up and deal with it. He wasn't the only one whose horse wanted to go. (I'll also agree with the poster who said we need riding lessons. I've had them and am currently taking lessons. That's also one of my gripes with this person.)

This was an issue last year as well. It was always someone's fault. Maybe that is why today I said "screw it" and moved ahead briefly. Ok, I vow to be better behaved, but not to refrain from comments like the one I made. Bc usually I do bite my tongue, but I couldn't do it any more.

pj
Mar. 20, 2011, 10:13 AM
What the others have said.

Sounds to me as if you need to find another group to ride with if you want to come in happy from your rides.
I also don't want to ride with beer drinkers. Maybe if that man wasn't busy slurping beer he could handle his horse better.

PRS
Mar. 20, 2011, 02:59 PM
What the others have said.

Sounds to me as if you need to find another group to ride with if you want to come in happy from your rides.
I also don't want to ride with beer drinkers. Maybe if that man wasn't busy slurping beer he could handle his horse better.

Amen :yes:

mustangtrailrider
Mar. 20, 2011, 03:51 PM
It could simply be a matter of it is easier to blame other people and sit back and have a bear than it is to learn to ride....He may not care...

If you don't like the company, ride with someone else.

I don't mix alcohol and horses. I don't ride with those that do. I won't....

Life is too short to ride with folks like that. If you don't enjoy it, find someone else!

katarine
Mar. 20, 2011, 04:31 PM
I don't ride with people who can't handle their horse and their beer. One must be able to master both to ride with me ;)

cloudy18
Mar. 20, 2011, 09:18 PM
katarine, hehehe, you are so wise. I had one beer at the bar when we stopped for lunch. I don't even try to have one while riding bc I can go without, and the horse always realizes I am down to one hand. I was annoyed for various reasons-one being that he should know his horse is going to do this on the way home, so maybe he should be prepared. And hold off on more beer until he gets home.

I'm in a trail riding club and have no problems with anyone else. This is my friend's husband, sooooo...

Hoping the blowup alerted him to some issues-riding and anger management. If it continues to be a problem I am not going to ride with him any more. And I will still be better behaved.:yes:

AlfalfaGirl
Mar. 20, 2011, 09:55 PM
I concur with the others. I do ride with a large group. Some will trot out and canter a little and sometimes I want to go a little slower. I can control my horse but I am not the most confident rider. I can canter my horse SOME but he has a problem with wanting to gallop instead of canter so I am always on guard!

I did have to ask my hubby to slow down to a walk last week when I was having a hard time controlling my horse because the other two were going a little faster up and down some little rises and I am trying to teach Biscuit to go at the speed I set...not the one he wants or others are doing!

As for someone drinking and riding and telling me to eff off...oh I don't think so. Friends husband or not I wouldn't ride with them again.

suz
Mar. 20, 2011, 10:23 PM
I don't ride with people who can't handle their horse and their beer. One must be able to master both to ride with me ;)




you betcha!

katarine
Mar. 20, 2011, 10:47 PM
LOL well I ride a horse that can be hotter than a two dollar pistol, and he's not an Arabian or anything, just a garden variety TWH. When he's feeling HOT, I'd rather the bunch not just up and leave me w/o warning. He will get very upset and anxious. Whether I'm holding holy water or a cold beer, manners dictate you check with the folks behind you before moving out. You just do. And if they say gimme til X bend in the trail, then honor that, Do it. Let me finish my holy water, get set, and I'll either come along, or manage my requests that my own horse chill and settle.

BUT...

If they say no, you guys don't speed up til we get to the barn/ the horse trailer/the end of time and No, I'm not riding a baby and no I'm not hurt, I'm basically just a sorry rider on a half trained horse with 2-3 cold beers in my future and zero interest in managing my OWN animal, somehow it takes a village or some such: welll... I'm potentially going to be situationally...deaf.

Tamara in TN
Mar. 20, 2011, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE=cloudy18;5492887]I trot ahead a bit and your horse dances and jigs and is a PITA to ride?

Here's the background: riding on a road, 6 people. Woman with gaited pony goes quite a ways ahead of the group on the way home. Horses are moving faster to begin with just bc we are headed home.

your inability to maintain the same sped due to "going home" is certainly a flaw in your horses training.



Is it really everyone's responsibility to be that accommodating, or should he suck it up a little and use it as a training experience? My horse was fighting me too, but I chose to ride her rather than blame someone else.

that four/five of you choose to let your horses fly along setting a poor example for what may be a more timid rider speaks poorly of all if you,yes. If you cannot control your horses speed then maybe you should stay behind.

Tamara

coloredcowhorse
Mar. 21, 2011, 12:02 AM
Those whose horses want to speed up just due to heading home have horses that wouldn't pass as "broke" around here...sorry but the horse doesn't choose the speed or direction in which we ride...it may be a partnership but there's a managing partner and that's not the horse. It is poor trail manners to leave someone behind whose horse is having an anxiety attack over being left....not all horses in any single group are going to be trained to the same level and it would seem sensible for those with better trained horses to help out with those who may need help. In addition...those who do allow their horses to speed up just due to heading home are training their own horse in a bad habit...it is a form of barn sourness if your horse has to jig or fuss just for a change in direction toward home. And no, drinking and riding is as dumb as drinking and driving but there will be those that do it....it is not very sensible to leave someone who is impaired in any way just because what they did was dumb.

analise
Mar. 21, 2011, 05:20 PM
It is generally accepted that when riding in a group you all stay to the speed of the slowest, least able rider. That being said I generally try to choose people to ride with whose riding style is similar to mine. I don't mind the occassional ride with a slower horse/rider combo but I don't enjoy those rides nearly as much as I do when I ride with group of people who like to ride a the same pace as I do.

This.

I've been on plenty of trail rides where I wanted to do trotting and cantering but because we had someone who only wanted to walk...well. We walked. If you want to trot or canter, you have to ensure you're going out with people who want to trot and canter too. It's extremely poor form to ride away from a member of your group just because they're going slower than you want to.

cloudy18
Mar. 21, 2011, 06:02 PM
[QUOTE]

that four/five of you choose to let your horses fly along setting a poor example for what may be a more timid rider speaks poorly of all if you,yes. If you cannot control your horses speed then maybe you should stay behind.

Tamara

Just to clarify, though I have accepted my bad part in the whole mess, there were not 4 or 5 of us flying along, and the rider is not timid. There was one rider ahead quite a bit of the time, and then I was ahead for maybe 10 minutes of the ride, and my son was with me. That left three horses back. He wasn't alone and I never would have left him alone, or even at all if I knew his horse was behaving dangerously or scaring him. Not clarifying this to defend myself either, but I don't want people to think the group bolted away and left someone in the dust, clinging to the saddle for their life.

Austin Rider
Mar. 21, 2011, 06:36 PM
It is generally accepted that when riding in a group you all stay to the speed of the slowest, least able rider. That being said I generally try to choose people to ride with whose riding style is similar to mine.

Ditto this, plus one additional observation. When I ride with groups of friends, we'll usually separate into slower and faster groups for parts of the ride, then meet up further down the trail. This allows those who want a faster ride to get their yayas out, while others can do a relaxed walking ride safely.

Once we're heading back to the barn or trailhead, though, we all walk together and don't allow the horses to rush home. That's a bad habit that can cause some real wrecks...

I don't know if it's "your fault" or not. I DO know that I would not keep riding with a beer-drinking lout, no matter who's husband he is.

Kyzteke
Mar. 21, 2011, 11:01 PM
That being said, if you don't enjoy riding at that speed (or if you are unable to rate your horse slower), then perhaps you shouldn't ride with that person. Everyone might be happier, including you, if you rode with people who like going faster or are better able to control their horses.

This.

The only fault it that is seems nobody in the group could really control their horses (or didn't want to).

Or trying giving the beer to the horse...might work better....:winkgrin:

Donkey
Mar. 21, 2011, 11:26 PM
I've always abided by the rule that you always accommodate the weakest rider in the group so I think what you and the other women pulled is really bad manners. You wouldn't have to worry about me going out with you again because I wouldn't :lol: I just can't handle dealing with a wild card who only thinks of themselves. I think everyone that goes out deserves to have a good experience. Trail riding isn't always a relaxing experience for everyone every time out, karma may creep up on you one day. Sorry to be so harsh but be honest with yourself and make better choices in who you ride with and if you find yourself in a similar situation suck it up and put your frustrations into planning your next trip with different folks.

ChocoMare
Mar. 22, 2011, 09:01 AM
Ditto this, plus one additional observation. When I ride with groups of friends, we'll usually separate into slower and faster groups for parts of the ride, then meet up further down the trail. This allows those who want a faster ride to get their yayas out, while others can do a relaxed walking ride safely.

Once we're heading back to the barn or trailhead, though, we all walk together and don't allow the horses to rush home. That's a bad habit that can cause some real wrecks...



Ditto. I ride with a group of COTHers and friends at a local park. We decide who wants to do what and on what trail, then split up into The Movers and The Pokes (said in love :lol:). No one gets their panties in a wad, we all have fun and then meet back up at the trailer for lunch. Soooo low key, we love it!

And NO ONE consumes adult beverages. A) It's a park rule; and B) We all have coots and consideration for everyone in the group ;)

Char
Mar. 22, 2011, 09:54 AM
This.

The only fault it that is seems nobody in the group could really control their horses (or didn't want to).

Or trying giving the beer to the horse...might work better....:winkgrin:

I vote for this. :lol: I can say that because I have a hot TWH that I think needs a beer more often than not. :winkgrin:

SonnysMom
Mar. 22, 2011, 10:12 AM
Since you already had the gaited horse that was far ahead I think you should have told him you and you son were going ahead with that horse and stayed out of sight. Just give him the time to hold up his horse for a minute until you get out of sight. Let beer drinking lout with his wife and the others that are willing to go slow.

In the future I would not be riding with him.

I would have more sympathy for him if he was inexperienced, or scared or if his horse was anxious. It sounds like he just can't be bothered to put down his beer and ride his horse.

I have a horse that walks medium fast. My previous horse was a slow walker. So I have been on both ends of the spectrum. I don't think that it is 100% the responsibility of the faster horses owner to hold back their horse and the slow horse be a slug. My QH was LAZY. It was also my responsibility to make him march along at the walk not mosey along.

Both riders need to find a happy medium and not put the full responsibility of pace on one rider.

If the slower rider is too timid to make their horse walk a little faster than a crawl maybe they really aren't ready to be out of the ring and should get a few lessons.
If they are just too lazy and too busy drinking beer to make their horse walk on I don't have huge amounts of sympathy.

daisyduke
Mar. 22, 2011, 11:41 AM
My horse was a joy to ride, when in front. However, we rode in large groups and many would go at their own speeds. Some would take off at a gallop, some trotted, some stopped to smell the roses. I never expected anyone to accommodate my horse's inability to stay level headed when she wasn't the leader. Her jigging would be short lived, until the next couple of riders took off. My horse, my problem.

My wish list for my next trail horse is to not foam my beer.

cloudy18
Mar. 22, 2011, 06:00 PM
My horse was a joy to ride, when in front. However, we rode in large groups and many would go at their own speeds. Some would take off at a gallop, some trotted, some stopped to smell the roses. I never expected anyone to accommodate my horse's inability to stay level headed when she wasn't the leader. Her jigging would be short lived, until the next couple of riders took off. My horse, my problem.


And this is part of the issue. It's not that his horse is lazy. His horse wants to go and he holds it back. Whether this is bc if he gives it more rein it will move into a trot instead of a faster walk, I don't know. This is often-not always-an issue. His horse is happiest when out in front. I have a gelding that is the same way, but I don't expect to always be in front.

His horse can absolutely keep up with mine, but he was holding it back and fighting it to begin with. Once I was further ahead I paced a little, but came back to the group. The other rider was still way ahead of me. She did come back at one point, and he said nothing until he blew up later. At me, bc I made the comment for him to chill out.

We know when we go with this other person that she is going to at some point probably go ahead of us. She has said that if we have an issue we can say something. I don't as a rule, nor does anyone in the group, race ahead and leave people behind. If it's a larger group people end up splitting into the faster groups and slower groups.

It's just this person who has a certain issue with his horse and wants to always blame someone, instead of working on his issue. But I do admit I made the situation worse for him. However, I also get tired of catering to his issue. Not the fact that he has a problem, bc I have problems at times too, but bc he never wants to step up and work on it. He can't admit he needs lessons-it's easier to blame it on the situation at the time.

Kyzteke
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:11 AM
It's just this person who has a certain issue with his horse and wants to always blame someone, instead of working on his issue. But I do admit I made the situation worse for him. However, I also get tired of catering to his issue. Not the fact that he has a problem, bc I have problems at times too, but bc he never wants to step up and work on it. He can't admit he needs lessons-it's easier to blame it on the situation at the time.


Really, there are all sorts of people with "issues" (both horse & otherwise) that do not choose to deal with them. It really isn't up to you to decide what they should deal with and what they shouldn't. I'm sure you have plenty of "issues" as well (and so do I).

So just don't ride with the guy. I mean, it's a pretty simple solution, don't ya think?

And folks, it's not the beer. My farrier can outride most of the folks I know and never drop his beer. And I've seen pro polo players play the snot o/o the game on a WHOLE lot more than just afew beers...

Tamara in TN
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:50 AM
And this is part of the issue. It's not that his horse is lazy. His horse wants to go and he holds it back. Whether this is bc if he gives it more rein it will move into a trot instead of a faster walk, I don't know. This is often-not always-an issue. His horse is happiest when out in front. I have a gelding that is the same way, but I don't expect to always be in front.

His horse can absolutely keep up with mine, but he was holding it back and fighting it to begin with. He can't admit he needs lessons-it's easier to blame it on the situation at the time.


it still seems as if he is the only one making his horse stay where "he" wants it...the rest of the squad seems to think that horses on the way home do as they darn well please.

well, we would ride with you (plural)one time and decide that you (plural) were a wreck wanting to happen...

training rides are different than "trail' rides...

if you tell me in advance "hey we are going to leave you behind as we head home" then halfway thru, we'll dismount and let you go on,as at that point you have neglected the group dynamic and decided that you matter more than the group...

and you'd never ride with us again.

Tamara

Dispatcher
Mar. 23, 2011, 09:49 AM
What kind of trail rides are you doing that you drink beer while riding?????

We're way too busy with working, conditioning and giving our horses and ourselves a good ride. I can't imagine drinking a beer while riding. Or did I misunderstand something?

leilatigress
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:13 AM
We've always accomodated the slowest rider but if said rider did not have control of their horse then said horse and rider will not be out on the trail with us again. I've been the one to rescue the runaway horse across 4 lanes of traffic and a highway overpass. It ain't fun, its damn dangerous and I and more than a few motorist could easily have been killed.
We had a lovely lady in our group who was a very competent rider and she had an asinine Appendix gelding that would flip out over nothing. We never found his trigger either and it was a different circumstance every time. He had the worst habit of managing to get her off and then in true race horse fashion run for the roses home. The first time he got her off I caught him before he got far. Second time we had the freeway incident. Third time he was ponied and actually managed to break his rope and his rider's leg.
I start out the trail on a loose rein and I come back to the barn on a loose rein. Anything else is not acceptable.

Auventera Two
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:17 AM
It depends on whom I am riding with, and what the agreed upon circumstances are. If there are green horses or riders in the group and the plan from the beginning is to ride together, then I absolutely would NOT trot off ahead. Doing so in that situation would be rude and dangerous.

But if I'm out with an experienced friend (or friends) on experience horses, and we agree ahead of time that I'm going to be trotting and cantering off and coming back (my horse needs work on that), then it's perfectly fine. But if I see that one of the experienced horses is giving its rider a fit, I of course would stop and wait. And I wouldn't do it in an area of trail that might be dangerous should a horse act up.

1. You can't get hurt
2. Horses can't get hurt
3. Horse must be calmer at the end of a session than at the beginning.

If those 3 golden rules can be met while you trot off from the group then ok. If at any time one of those 3 rules is in danger of being broken, then everybody needs to stop, take a breath, regroup, and proceed with caution and tact.

If I truly want to do my own thing and not worry about anybody else, then I just ride alone.

Tiger Horse
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:23 AM
I trot ahead a bit and your horse dances and jigs and is a PITA to ride?

Here's the background: riding on a road, 6 people. Woman with gaited pony goes quite a ways ahead of the group on the way home. Horses are moving faster to begin with just bc we are headed home. And of course they all want to keep up with pony who will surely beat them home and eat all the hay. At some point I let my STB move out a little and of course we pull ahead a bit. My son is on my Morab mare and manages to keep up with the occasional few strides of trotting. After awhile we catch up to gaited pony, then we all wait for the others, then gaited pony goes ahead again.

I am trying to slow my mare but she is tall and walks fast and I am only going to hold her back so much. Come on, the tiny
Morab is keeping up! Meanwhile, someone is growing cranky bc his horse is wanting to trot/jig/whatever and he does not want to keep fighting it. (This is a big horse, he could walk out and keep up). He wants everyone to be by him so his horse settles down and he can drink his beer. I know I am being partially blamed, as well as the rider of the gaited pony.

At some point the 5 of us are fairly together and Mr. Cranky has to pee. He makes some snippy comment about not bothering to wait bc nobody else does, and I say something like, "Oh come on, deal with it, It's not the end of the world." And get an "Eff you" in return.

This has been an issue since last year. His horse is often not happy unless it is in front, but he blames everyone else. The green rider I bring along, my horses, someone else's horse, etc. We all just bite our tongues, but today I couldn't do it. Thought I was trying to be lighthearted, but guess not.

Is it really everyone's responsibility to be that accomodating, or should he suck it up a little and use it as a training experience? My horse was fighting me too, but I chose to ride her rather than blame someone else.


This is why I, almost always, ride alone on the trail.:)

exvet
Mar. 23, 2011, 10:33 AM
I trail ride A LOT - by myself, in groups, often with my kids. I ride greenie meanies and well seasoned FEI horses - all on the trail for conditioning work. I do my best, especially when all the horses in the group are mine to match up paces. In other words, we have one horse who is very slow. He doesn't mind being last so in a group situation I don't really have to worry about him; but, the other riders do have the decency to occasionally stop and wait for me to catch up if we're out on a long leisurely trail ride. I have another horse who is also slow. He does get more nervous when he can't see the other horses in front of him. He doesn't have to be first but he's much more relaxed if he can at least see them (doesn't matter how far). I usually pair him up with the first one I referenced so he'll have a buddy even if the other horses are all out ahead. We call them our drag riders. I pair my stallion up with our two mares who are always front runners. All three have fairly equal speed at the walk. However, my son rides a mare who can put the speed on even at the walk. He has been taught to allow her to go but to come back periodically or stop and wait for the rest of the group. He knows that if a horse he's left behind starts to act up (as I said I ride a lot of greenies) he is to circle/turn around and bring his horse back, ride with the group for a while and check with the others before going out ahead. This is just simple etiquette and for everyone's safety. Of course it's easier to set the rules when the group is mine, all mine :winkgrin: We do ride with others and we still try to pair horses up based on their relaxed paces and speed. Those we ride with know to check on other riders lagging behind and to stop if someone is having a problem. Any one who doesn't do this or complains just doesn't get to ride with us anymore. I would consider it inconsiderate for someone to continue to ride ahead if they knew it caused another horse to have issues. I also consider it somewhat moronic if a person resents having to accomodate someone else yet does so repetitively if they have the option to change the group dynamics for the better regardless of whose fault it is or which issue is taking the center stage.

jazzrider
Mar. 23, 2011, 01:48 PM
What kind of trail rides are you doing that you drink beer while riding?????

We're way too busy with working, conditioning and giving our horses and ourselves a good ride. I can't imagine drinking a beer while riding. Or did I misunderstand something?

Horrors, someone is chilling out and having a drink while riding, rather than following your idea of a trail work ethic. I agree that alcohol on the trail isn't the greatest idea, but there's nothing wrong with having a relaxing ride, drinking (gatorade is my poison) and enjoying your horse and friends. Or did I misunderstand something? :rolleyes:

;)

ReSomething
Mar. 23, 2011, 02:10 PM
. . .

His horse can absolutely keep up with mine, but he was holding it back and fighting it to begin with. . . .

. . . It's just this person who has a certain issue with his horse and wants to always blame someone, instead of working on his issue. But I do admit I made the situation worse for him. However, I also get tired of catering to his issue. Not the fact that he has a problem, bc I have problems at times too, but bc he never wants to step up and work on it. He can't admit he needs lessons-it's easier to blame it on the situation at the time.


*sigh* Well, you all sound like you have a serious communication problem.

If he wanted to school his horse to be more versatile in a group setting he should have asked the group ahead of time or selected a couple of like minded riders to ride with, and he should have definitely ditched the beer.

I think you could have said something better than "chill out" if you wanted to address his issues and how he is failing to handle them. It was probably too late in the game but he may have no clue that he can ask for help schooling instead of having a beer can race. He doesn't need lessons for that.

As it was it sounds like you all were having a real free-for-all and I hope nobody gets hurt.

Chardavej
Mar. 23, 2011, 02:20 PM
I don't ride with people who can't handle their horse and their beer. One must be able to master both to ride with me ;)

I'm riding with YOU girlfriend! LOL!

SonnysMom
Mar. 23, 2011, 05:17 PM
OTOH I was out hunting on Sat. I was riding and talking to the master. At one point he trotted on away from me and then horrors, cantered a few strides to get up to one of the whips.
I stayed back with the field master. My horse can be a bit sassy but I expected him to be able to deal with having the other horse trot away from him. He coped just fine.

I find it interesting that if you go on the hunting forum there is a thread that mentions how important it is for the field horses to stand while the staff horses trot or canter by. How is it that hunt horses can learn to deal with this but trail horses can't?

I also don't have a problem with a horse that moves out a little better on the way home. I was out with two other riders on Sun. On the way from home both of their horses walk really slowly. On the way home they actually walk a reasonable speed.
They aren't jigging, they aren't speed walking but they are walking faster on the way home. They weren't pulling on their riders.
I would expect that if we had trotted they would have been doing a medium trot instead of almost a western pleasure trot. Would I want them to discourage that? No particularly.
I would rather they just encourage them to move out a little on the trip away from the barn.
Was them walking faster on the trip home dangerous? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Was it a sign of bad training? Not in my opinion. It is life with a lazy horse that knows where home is. Neither of these horses are barn sour. Neither was racing towards home. But both made it clear that they knew where home was.

OP has also mentioned that he won't let the horse WALK on. We are not exactly talking a real advanced gait here. She has also mentioned that her own son is the least experience rider on the smallest horse and was able to keep up just fine. But jerk with beer can't just wants to pick a fight with everybody.
I also do have a problem with saying okay maybe he wanted a "training ride" but he is drinking a beer on that "training ride". Alcohol and training rides do not go hand in hand in my world. Impairment starts with the first drink. His reactions are going to be slowed. It sounds like they stopped for lunch, OP had a drink at lunch and likely this guy did too. My bet is that the beer he was drinking on the horse was not his first. Maybe more like his 3rd?

analise
Mar. 23, 2011, 05:56 PM
Trail horses are not necessarily foxhunters. If that were the case, I could take my horse who's great on the trail and hunt him first flight one weekend.

But that's ridiculous, isn't it? So why would you put a standard that's levied on foxhunters (with good reason because staff HAVE to be able to move freely about without the concern that someone's horse is going to blow a gasket) on trail horses? They're two very different forms of activity, even if both involve riding in the great outdoors.

Rule of thumb that I've always been taught is that you go as slow as the slowest person in your group. Usually that's the least experienced horse/rider, but not always (as seems to be the case here).

If the group had set out with the agreement that they'd do a lot of cantering and trotting and this guy refused to do anything but walk...then the OP might have a case. But from what I've read, I haven't seen that. They went out with someone who expected to walk. Doesn't matter if he had a beer (in which case it's probably better he wasn't riding at high speed). Doesn't matter if he's a jerk. On this ride, in this group, the group should have walked.

On the next ride you can tell him, "Dude, we want to trot. If you can't keep up or don't want to trot, you'll have to ride on your own," and don't ride with him.

JollyBadger
Mar. 23, 2011, 06:22 PM
If the group had set out with the agreement that they'd do a lot of cantering and trotting and this guy refused to do anything but walk...then the OP might have a case. But from what I've read, I haven't seen that. They went out with someone who expected to walk. Doesn't matter if he had a beer (in which case it's probably better he wasn't riding at high speed). Doesn't matter if he's a jerk. On this ride, in this group, the group should have walked.

On the next ride you can tell him, "Dude, we want to trot. If you can't keep up or don't want to trot, you'll have to ride on your own," and don't ride with him.

In this case, the responsibility to communicate falls on both parties. Someone should have made it known that the group does not "just walk," and may trot, gait or canter when the trail/footing allows for it.

If the guy just wanted to walk but joined the group anyway, without ever stating ahead of time that he had an objection to going faster than a walk, that's the individual's fault for not speaking up.

But, if he expressed ahead of time that he was working through some issues with his horse and asked for some consideration during the ride (rather than "just taking off" and leaving him in the dust), and the group still agrees to let him come along. . .they owe it to him to stick to that.

Or, someone in the group can agree to stay back with him while the rest move off.

Or, someone needs to have the guts to tell him that he probably should find another "slower" group to ride with while he works out whatever the training issues are.

katarine
Mar. 23, 2011, 07:41 PM
Replace beer with gatorade and explain your concerns with the situation. Call the beer water: Now, what were the issues.

I think the beer is the easy scapegoat in the whole scenario. Apparently at the first sip we're drooling, befuddled, idiots. When did the legal limit become 0.0?

Many a ride from my place I head out with a water and a beer in my saddle bags.. I'll drink the water first, then the beer on the way back to the house. Some of you guys make it sound like a should wear both a diaper and a bib so I don't soil myself, I'm so impaired ;)

Kyzteke
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:09 PM
I don't ride with people who can't handle their horse and their beer. One must be able to master both to ride with me ;)

How did I miss this?

Atta girl! What kind of wimps are these folk anyway ;)?

Seriously, I doubt the guy would be a better rider without his beer.

Hey, you guys wanna see some serious drinking/riding combos, try going on an Irish fox hunt. And those guys are going at a gallop over some super gnarly fences.

My heros....:winkgrin:

cloudy18
Mar. 23, 2011, 08:27 PM
Aah, some of you are funny.:yes: The beer really wasn't the issue/the problem. It just further annoyed me bc it kept him from having two hands to deal with his horse-which maybe wouldn't matter.

Once again, and I am not saying this to take any blame off myself for aggravating the situation, he had two other riders with him at all times. The person on the gaited horse was a ways ahead, my son and I went ahead for maybe ten minutes, if that, then returned. At some point the other rider returned also, then headed back away. His horse has been known to do this at other times, even if the whole group is near, bc it wants to be dead first at times. We often tell him to move to the front when he needs to. His horse is not horrible, it just has this one issue which, rather than working on, he would rather blame everyone else for causing.

I admit I aggravated the situation that day, however I will not take full blame. The whole group did not leave him in the dust fighting his horse. My horse was not out of control and pulling me home. I said I was only going to slow her so much bc she likes walking fast-as does his horse-bc I can't stand to walk at a pokey pace. That wasn't even the issue. He was upset bc he blamed us for causing his horse to pull on him. He definitely was not the only person in the group in control of his horse, as someone thought.

Anyway, everyone has apologized, I plan on limiting my rides with this person, and if the problems continue I won't ride with him ever again. There have been plenty of rides where nobody was ahead in the least and yet someone or their horse gets blamed for his problems.

xeroxchick
Mar. 24, 2011, 07:57 AM
Trail horses are not necessarily foxhunters. If that were the case, I could take my horse who's great on the trail and hunt him first flight one weekend.

But that's ridiculous, isn't it? So why would you put a standard that's levied on foxhunters (with good reason because staff HAVE to be able to move freely about without the concern that someone's horse is going to blow a gasket) on trail horses? They're two very different forms of activity, even if both involve riding in the great outdoors.

Rule of thumb that I've always been taught is that you go as slow as the slowest person in your group. Usually that's the least experienced horse/rider, but not always (as seems to be the case here).

If the group had set out with the agreement that they'd do a lot of cantering and trotting and this guy refused to do anything but walk...then the OP might have a case. But from what I've read, I haven't seen that. They went out with someone who expected to walk. Doesn't matter if he had a beer (in which case it's probably better he wasn't riding at high speed). Doesn't matter if he's a jerk. On this ride, in this group, the group should have walked.

On the next ride you can tell him, "Dude, we want to trot. If you can't keep up or don't want to trot, you'll have to ride on your own," and don't ride with him.
I think you missed the point, which is if it is no big deal to field hunters, then it is possible for most horses to be calm when other horses ride off.
I was wondering if a foxhunter was going to comment on this.
I am reminded that I preffer to trail ride with other hunters. Not used to people complaining about their horse, running off suddenly, riding up my butt, having to walk for anyone not on a greenie.

Monica67
Mar. 24, 2011, 10:24 AM
"Is it really everyone's responsibility to be that accomodating?"

In this case, especially since he is an ADULT, the answer is NO. He needs to take on some self responsibility and ride in a group that is content to mosey along so he can enjoy his beer.

wingedmare
Mar. 24, 2011, 01:52 PM
I think you missed the point, which is if it is no big deal to field hunters, then it is possible for most horses to be calm when other horses ride off.
I was wondering if a foxhunter was going to comment on this.
I am reminded that I preffer to trail ride with other hunters. Not used to people complaining about their horse, running off suddenly, riding up my butt, having to walk for anyone not on a greenie.

I had the same thoughts myself. I haven't hunted in about 6 years (since moving to SoCal) but I make CERTAIN that my horses maintain the same leval of training as they would in a field. I also have worked with many new friends here to get their horses trained to the leval of Field Hunters as far as not caring if another horse moves off or not. Trail Riding and Field Hunting are not so different that they should have different standards for training. Regardless of speed you are going to encounter the same things out in the open.

Perhaps I am a selfish rider as when I am out with a group I will inform them to please prepare their horses as I am going to trot out or canter up the trail a bit. Would I do this with a green rider? NO. However I do Like a few moments to myself and to hop a log or two.

Are my guys perfect on the trail? Not always, My Big guy has his days where he thinks we are training for an event and huffs and puffs with disdain at having to walk calmly and my Rescue can barely get 2 miles from home before panicing (we are making progress, used to be 1 mile) but I just don't ride him with anyone and will not until he has figured it out. My horse, my responsibility.

As for beer on the trail, I have insulated saddle bags and the moment my big guy sees the 6 pack come out of the truck and go in the saddle bags he knows it is a Po-Dunk kind of day and as long as he gets a sip at lunch break he is all for it.

Monica67
Mar. 24, 2011, 04:20 PM
It's nice to know I am not the only one here who drinks and rides. ;)

GallopingGrape
Mar. 24, 2011, 05:46 PM
Ask me how I know that an entire bottle of wine can fit in most standard water bottles. :D Not that I recommend an entire bottle of wine, but I know many folks who can benefit from a little sip prior to saddling... When I'm relaxes, my nervous nelly is relaxed.....

analise
Mar. 24, 2011, 06:50 PM
I think you missed the point, which is if it is no big deal to field hunters, then it is possible for most horses to be calm when other horses ride off.
I was wondering if a foxhunter was going to comment on this.
I am reminded that I preffer to trail ride with other hunters. Not used to people complaining about their horse, running off suddenly, riding up my butt, having to walk for anyone not on a greenie.

I think my point was that field hunters are not most horses. And if they were, I could successfully take my horse to a hunt next weekend and he'd do just fine in first flight.

candyappy
Mar. 25, 2011, 04:05 PM
I trot ahead a bit and your horse dances and jigs and is a PITA to ride?

Here's the background: riding on a road, 6 people. Woman with gaited pony goes quite a ways ahead of the group on the way home. Horses are moving faster to begin with just bc we are headed home. And of course they all want to keep up with pony who will surely beat them home and eat all the hay. At some point I let my STB move out a little and of course we pull ahead a bit. My son is on my Morab mare and manages to keep up with the occasional few strides of trotting. After awhile we catch up to gaited pony, then we all wait for the others, then gaited pony goes ahead again.

I am trying to slow my mare but she is tall and walks fast and I am only going to hold her back so much. Come on, the tiny
Morab is keeping up! Meanwhile, someone is growing cranky bc his horse is wanting to trot/jig/whatever and he does not want to keep fighting it. (This is a big horse, he could walk out and keep up). He wants everyone to be by him so his horse settles down and he can drink his beer. I know I am being partially blamed, as well as the rider of the gaited pony.

At some point the 5 of us are fairly together and Mr. Cranky has to pee. He makes some snippy comment about not bothering to wait bc nobody else does, and I say something like, "Oh come on, deal with it, It's not the end of the world." And get an "Eff you" in return.

This has been an issue since last year. His horse is often not happy unless it is in front, but he blames everyone else. The green rider I bring along, my horses, someone else's horse, etc. We all just bite our tongues, but today I couldn't do it. Thought I was trying to be lighthearted, but guess not.

Is it really everyone's responsibility to be that accomodating, or should he suck it up a little and use it as a training experience? My horse was fighting me too, but I chose to ride her rather than blame someone else.

This is why I prefer to ride ALONE !!!!!!!!! If this guy or anyone else has a horse they know is going to act that way they should ride with people who have horses who go at their speed. It is like riding a regular horse with gaited horses-- they don't mix and you have everyone all strung out.. Just my opinion.

SonnysMom
Mar. 25, 2011, 04:21 PM
I think my point was that field hunters are not most horses. And if they were, I could successfully take my horse to a hunt next weekend and he'd do just fine in first flight.

I know plenty of horses that can stand having horses leave them or have horses trot/canter by but still can't do first flight.
Add some jumps, lots of noisy hounds, bigger group and the dynamics are different.

Trust me my horse is no where close to being a good field hunter. However some posters sound like that a trail horse shouldn't ever have to deal with another horse going a different gait or even a different speed within that gait.
Heck, historically many hunt horses are TB's and OTTB's not a breed that is known to be a deadhead.

I agree with the poster that said that this is an ADULT that actually needs to take some responsibility for himself instead of everybody accommodating him.
I am totally sympathetic to green riders, timid riders, green horses etc.... I will happily accommodate those riders. This does not appear to be these case in OP's situation. This rider just sounds boarish.

Feel free to ride and drink. Just don't expect me to take you seriously if you state that you are doing a "training" ride yet can't put down the beer. I can actually see taking a swig from a flask, putting it away and having a training ride. But hampering one's ability to use 2 reins if necessary to enforce the training I can't wrap my mind around.

mvp
Mar. 25, 2011, 06:00 PM
I think my point was that field hunters are not most horses. And if they were, I could successfully take my horse to a hunt next weekend and he'd do just fine in first flight.

Then I want a field hunter! But really, a ranch horse or competitive distance horse can do the same.

No one has said this yet, but competitive distance riders *teach* their horses to be autonomous. I rode with one who regularly played "leap frog" with the sissy horses.

One trotted ahead-- kick if you have to. The one that stayed back was asked to walk until the first horse got out of sight. If he chilled, great. If not, he could trot to catch up..... but then the sucker had to keep going past the first horse, and hard. They learned that it was *a lot of work* to be a PITA about leaving the herd.

She did this because it would be hard to ride if your fit 100-miler spent the first 20 miles being an ass. It also would screw up your P and Rs if Sissy was busy chasing some other horse.

I rode my Show Hunter the same way. Better believe he had better behave well outside. If you want to use a trail ride as relaxation, then you need a broke horse, IMO.

colorfan
Apr. 1, 2011, 10:44 AM
Ditto Coloredcowhorse, PJ, PRS,

Stay with group unless permission recieved to advance for a short time.

Seriously, this guy was drinking beer while riding...... did he have a movie on his iphone too?

His choice of reply would end any further riding association, I ride for fun, not ....that.