Why, Oh Why, Do People Do This? :(

[ChocoMare]

I just got a call from one of my company's Hospital Liaisons telling me that one of the doctor's bought a 6 month old colt for his autistic child. Since it got suddenly cold last night, he put a blanket on the little guy. Went out this morning to check on him only to find the blanket up around his neck. The foal was dead http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old?

My heart breaks for this doctor. He just didn't know. Right now, he feels like he's committed murder because he knows that the foal died because of what he did.

I'm having this rep tell the doctor to call me. Perhaps I can help him get his child into a local Hippotherapy class and somehow console him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[ChocoMare]

I just got a call from one of my company's Hospital Liaisons telling me that one of the doctor's bought a 6 month old colt for his autistic child. Since it got suddenly cold last night, he put a blanket on the little guy. Went out this morning to check on him only to find the blanket up around his neck. The foal was dead http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old?

My heart breaks for this doctor. He just didn't know. Right now, he feels like he's committed murder because he knows that the foal died because of what he did.

I'm having this rep tell the doctor to call me. Perhaps I can help him get his child into a local Hippotherapy class and somehow console him. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[monstrpony]

OMGiH, how awful for everyone concerned. I agree, there are some guilty parties here, and I'm not talking about the doctor or his family. I can't stop thinking of the terror that poor young horse must have been feeling.

Yuck, yuck, yuck!! Makes me ill to think about it.

[KrazyTBMare]

Oh geez. Thats just awful. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[ChocoMare]

To help this guy, anyone know of excellent Hippotherapy programs in the Cobb/Cherokee County areas? I'd like to direct him when he calls.

[BeastieSlave]

Awww, that's so sad http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Wish I could help with a program. I know of one in Newnan, but I'm sure there has to be something closer to you.

[relocatedTXjumpr]

Check out stablemates...I seem to recall an add or two in there.

[Timex]

that's just horrible. some people just suck. why the hell would anyone sell a foal to a total newbie???

[Marli]

How terribly tragic! Can't imagine what that little youngster must've endured during the nite http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Any horse (youngster or older) being sold to an in-experienced person happens often, and it amazes me how people (horse dealers/traders/breeders) can sleep at night. NO consious whatsoever...

As for this doctor and his child, an example of learning a lesson the hard way. Just tragic. Hopefully, they'll locate counselling to move forward and if there's any notion of another horse in their future, they'll find someone knowledgeable to advise them.

Sad, sad story all the way around...

[17handtb]

Absolutely terrible and absolutely NEEDLESS. Whomever made that sale must be 100% devoid of an ounce of ethics.

[Alagirl]

But PLEASE when you do get to talk to the Gentleman, point out that this kind of horrible thing can also happen to very experienced horseowners! Not neccessarily with blankets but in other freak accidents.

(Then you can tear him a new one for buying a foal for a kid! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif hope the seller is gonna be struck in the zipper on the way to the outhouse!!!!)

[HungarianHippo]

Search for therapeutic riding centers (http://www.narha.org/Centers/FindCenter2.asp)

This link lets you search by state for therapeutic riding centers. Not all TR centers offer Hippotherapy but this will get you started nonetheless.
Sorry about the foal, it's such a senseless loss.

[Noctis]

omg that sucks. ugh. and ditto about what everyone said about ripping him a new one...I hope the child did not get attached at all, it seems to be even more difficult for the autistic children, at least the ones i've known

[Chanter]

Personally, I do hold the DOCTOR greatly responsible in this tragic & hideous death. He is a highly educated man that society renders capable to make highly informed & qualified decisions. His lack of overall common sense & lack of self education before proceeding into this entire matter is appalling. I pray I never get him as a Doctor. I would be afraid of what he did not take the time to educate himself in regard to.

Neither do I deem the seller a saint.

Just my very appalled opinion, over the very traumatic death of an innocent animal.
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

[Jessi P]

Flame suit at the ready...

If the Doc put a foal blanket on the foal and it fit fairly well then it was an accident. No doubt the Doc will be much more careful in the future. While his good intentions dont excuse the fact that the foal died ostensibly because he put a blanket on it - is this as horrible as someone totally neglecting a 6 month old foal and having it die of exposure as a result? Come ON people! He is certainly allowed to buy any horse he wishes, poor judgement caused him to make a terrible mistake. He will know better from now on (we can only hope). Lets not crucify the man for making a mistake BY INTENDING TO HELP THE FOAL BY KEEPING IT WARM. Yes, he should have bought an older babysitter type but he didn't. Lots of folks don't do that no matter how intelligent they are. How many of us learned as green kids on green horses/ponies?

Again, this man apparently feels horrible for the accident he has caused to happen. AT LEAST HE TRIED TO HELP THE FOAL STAY WARM.

I hate it when folks are crucified for accidents (even tragic ones like this) that are caused by good intentions. And yes the road to Hell is paved with good intentions but compare that to folks whose poor/non existent feeding, vacc'ing, worming practices & generally poor care for their horses result in death or tragic injury to their horses.

Yes this is a horrible thing, but give me the tragic accident caused by concern for the welfare of the horse over outright negligence anyday.

Flame on folks. I'm ready!

[deltawave]

Wow, kinda harsh, Chanter. Just because someone is a doctor and accustomed to making informed decisions doesn't make them omniscient or anything less than HUMAN. I'm a doctor, make important decisions every day, and wouldn't have the FIRST CLUE on how to (for instance) do a proper job of flying an airplane, tending to a salt water aquarium, or helping a cow deliver a too-big calf. I hope to God nobody would judge my medical skills by that admission.

To err is human. To err BIG TIME is human. To suffer for it is human, too. Tell me you've never made a bad or poorly informed decision that hurt someone else, then tell me where you live and I will come bow at your feet.

[Green Acres]

Choco, I sent you a PT.

[nightsong]

I believe the (sadly under-educated in this case) got a foal because he's USEd TO the dog world, where you ROUTINELY buy a puppy for a child. Too bad that DOES NOT TRANSLATE to horses... and AMEN to finding a therapeutic riding center. His INSTINCTS (to get his child somehow connected with an equine) were RIGHT ON in this case...

[Chanter]

I of course expect flames for what I said.

At the same time I wonder if the foals death was not a cruel blessing in disguise? The odds of said colt causing serious injury, if not even possible death, to the autistic child were a very strong possibility due to the gross ignorance of those involved.

Who knows, perhaps the colt would have recognised the child's issues & behaved instinctually in an appropriate manner? I would not hold my breath upon in. A colt, is a colt, is colt in most all cases.

I work with colts daily & think they should have have zippers on their lips. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

BUT, I can sincerely say, I now have permanent "health issues" & I can state for a fact that my once "great fun" Arabian gelding turned into an absolute babysitter for me of his own accord after my "injuries." I have no explainations as to the how's or why's of his sudden personality change, but they are a fact. *God bless his soul*

[Alagirl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">At the same time I wonder if the foals death was not a cruel blessing in disguise? The odds of said colt causing serious injury, if not even possible death, to the autistic child were a very strong possibility due to the gross ignorance of those involved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You definetly have a point there.
The good man must have read too many Fury books, or many knock offs of Black Beauty, where the horse turned out perfect with no effort...

(On second and third thought, he might be a know-it-all, too http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif)

As a family friend used to say, the way things happen is good, even if at first we don't see it...it has never failed me to remember this motto!

[SimplySarah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chanter:
Personally, I do hold the DOCTOR greatly responsible in this tragic & hideous death. He is a highly educated man that society renders capable to make highly informed & qualified decisions. His lack of overall common sense & lack of self education before proceeding into this entire matter is appalling. I pray I never get him as a Doctor. I would be afraid of what he did not take the time to educate himself in regard to.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He bought a foal from a seller who sold him, an inexperienced looking-to-buy horse owner who I am willing to bet said when looking at horse "I want to buy a horse for my 10 year old autistic child", a foal. He also bought the foal a foal blanket. He put said blanket on horse, a tragic ACCIDENT happened and the foal got caught up and ended up dead. The fact that because of an accident that very well could have happened to ANYONE, and that you know nothing about the man, you are trashing his ability as a doctor is not only harsh but rather disgusting.
I'm sure you've never had accidents every happen to you, and that everything you do is perfect. :rolleyes

[Chanter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He bought a foal from a seller who sold him, an inexperienced looking-to-buy horse owner who I am willing to bet said when looking at horse "I want to buy a horse for my 10 year old autistic child", a foal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would bet 100 lifetimes he did not say this to the seller. Even if he did, he is the adult, the parent, a Doctor no less, the one responsible for his child's safety, even more to the point his austic child's safety.

DR CARDIOLOGIST, I do have words for you, but it is way past the bedtime of we mere stall cleaners.

[bestdamwife]

People like that are the reason horse people get a bad rap.That's terrible. I'm sure it's all about the $$$$.

[bauhaus]

I'm sorry for all involved, except the seller unless he was grossly misinformed about who he was selling the colt to. I agree with hobie cat - the Dr. was trying to keep the colt warm and honestly who can blame him for putting a blanket on his horse when it got cold, assuming it fit.

But I'm stuck on trying to figure out how a colt dies from a "blanket" accident? I've literally never heard of any horse who died or was even seriously injured b/c of getting tangled in a blanket. I'm fairly cavalier about blanketing all who need one when it's cold without much regard to whether they're going to get hurt. And in 25 years of owning many horses of all ages, shapes and sizes I've never had any more than maybe a swollen leg due to getting tangled in a blanket. The primary reason being: the blankets rip and are much less tough than the horse! Has anyone else ever had or heard of a problem with, perhaps, the newer ultra tough and horse-proof blankets actually hurting a horse if he gets it in a tangle? That's the only way I can imagine that this colt was killed due to his blanket. And honestly it gives me a bit of pause in regards to using the ultra tough blankets on young ones.... I never gave it a second thought before this.

[chai]

Chanter, I don't think you deserve flames. In fact, I agree with you. I have been a volunteer in Hippotherapy and Therapeutic Horseback riding for many years and imho, it is an amazing thing for children with special challenges. Horses do work magic with autistic children, but buying a foal for a 10 year old autistic child is just irresponsible. If that man is an MD, he should have enough smarts to know that owning a horse is not like owning a dog. He should have done his homework before buying his child any kind of horse or pony.
imho, he should feel guilty, as he is responsible for the tragic and unnecessary death of that foal.
Check out this site for accredited therapeutic/hippotherapy farms:http://www.narha.org/

[caryledee]

I have to agree with hobie cat here. While the purchase of a colt for an autistic child was wrong, the situation that caused the death of the colt was an accident.

Last February my landlord had a very young filly that was shivering despite a heat lamp in her stall. I put a foal blanket on her. It didn't fit perfectly, but I saw it as a better alternative to her shivering all night. If that filly had been injured because of the blanket, I would have felt terrible, but I don't think it means I shouldn't be in charge of the filly; it would have been an accident.

Chocomare, please let the doctor know that accidents happen even to the most experienced horsepeople. What happened wasn't his fault.

[TropicalStorm]

The poor man http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And the poor foal http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

He went in it with good intentions and it just turned out horribly wrong. I agree with hobie cat; it was an accident. A horrible accident that could have been avoided (but aren't all accidents avoidable?), but still an accident

[Luvinfoofy]

chai-

Maybe the man should've known better than to buy a foal for his child - however - I would not hold him responsible for the foal's death. Like many others said.. it WAS an accident.

[JoZ]

I am a responsible and knowledgeable horse person. I have foals about the same age as the one being discussed. In a different climate or situation, I might very well be blanketing them now. I would have had no expectation of my foal having problems with the blanket that could lead to injury never mind death.

I think the foal's death is a completely different topic from the foal's purchase, which was ill-advised. But there's so much we can't know because of the tragic and untimely death... maybe after two more days, the father would have gotten someone in to work with the foal (maybe along with the son)... maybe he would have sold the foal if he was educated by others about what a poor choice it was... maybe dumb luck would have prevailed and the boy and colt would have grown up together as the best of pals. And maybe it would have been a disaster. But all we have now is speculation because of a very sad accident.

[ol' QHJumper]

Back to Chocomare's question, I'm not up on my Ga geography, but here are the listings I could come up with:
Georgia Hippotherapists (http://www.americanhippotherapyassociation.org/aha_hpot_findTher.htm)
Theraputic riding centers... (http://www.narha.org/Centers/center_disability_search.asp) although I could only get them under the search criteria "learning disability"... 'autism' yeilded no results.

I did a lot of research for a communication project last semester on the benefits of Hippotherapy for autistics, and it looks promising... although, not enough research has really been done yet to differentiate between hippotherapy (equine-assisted physical therapy) and therapeutic riding in terms of success rates.
If the child is a mild autistic, one of the NARHA sites that takes learning disabled children may feel comfortable teaching him.
From what I've read, animal contact and especially riding seems to help bring autistic children out of their "inner fortress" and back into connecting with the world around them.

Good on you for trying to find some positive way out of a really unfortunate situation. Good luck.

[amdfarm]

What an awful and unfortunate ACCIDENT. We don't know the whole story, so who has the right to place blame on the doctor or seller? The seller could have lived down the road or the doctor could have a neighbor experienced w/ horses that offered to help and teach them along the way. What's done is done and now the doctor and his son are having to deal w/ it and will hopefully learn from it. He had good intentions that went bad.

I hope you're able to turn this into something good for them, chocomare.

L.

[Drumbiggle]

A couple of questions..

How did the foal die from a blanket? Did it accidently get hung up on something?

If that is the case, isn't that the kind of freak case that could happen to anyone?

From the facts presented, I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that the foal's death is neccesarily a result of the inexperience on the part of the doctor.

[Fairview Horse Center]

People just don't have ANY idea that foals (horses) are different then dogs, lambs, goats, etc. They are totally clueless. How COULD they just "know"?? There is nothing that acts like a horse, panics if trapped, no sense of self preservation, can't handle slightly different feeds, etc, etc, etc. Most people buy the puppy, and THEN the book on how to take care of it in a week or 2 OR then expect the vet to make sure they "get" what they need to keep them healthy, tell them changes to make, etc. . Buying a foal would SEEM the RIGHT thng to buy a kid rather than a "full grown" horse to someone that didn't know anything about horses.

One of my boarders was once told by a cop (as he ticketed her for going too slow on a rural back road) that "horses are NOT afraid of cars lady - my family had horses when I was a kid, they are just not afraid of that kind of thing" A few horses were walking about 1/2 a mile down the road to a show, and she was following them to make sure a car didn't come up on them fast/ kept some distance. She told him she was trying to make sure a horse didn't get spooked, and jump out in front of a car.

On the seller point...maybe the foal was purchased at a sale/auction. People that don't know anythng probably would go to a sale instead of a breeder.

[Fairview Horse Center]

The other thought I had was they probably didn't have any idea of the kinds of things in a corral/shed that could hurt a foal/horse either. Hooks to tie the foal? Low hanging haynets? long bolts to hang gates on that can catch on halters/blankets? boy THIS list could be HUGE....

[deltawave]

I just wonder if the thread would have taken a totally different direction if the OP (to whom I mean no offense, I know the post was genuine and heartfelt and SAD) had posted about a retired mailman who had bought a miniature horse for his ailing wife who'd always loved horses and the mini had gotten accidentally killed because of some sad incident. Seems like a lot of "buttons" got pushed because it was a) a foal, b) an autistic kid, and c) a doctor who bought the foal.

Accidents happen all the time. Ignorance is probably responsible for more horse suffering than anything else. Yet once upon a time every single person who posts here knew NOTHING about horses, too.

[Annetta]

So sad, but I don't think the doctor deserves to be trashed for blanketing his foal, assuming the blanket was properly made and fit well.

I'm not big on blanketing horses at all--mine are outside with loose housing for shelter 24/7, and they have their natural winter coats to keep them warm. However, last winter I had an early foal, born into -35 degree temperatures, and she was blanketed day and night for the first few weeks of life. Her newborn size blankets were home made affairs, custom fit for her & held on with duct tape--later the tape was replaced with velcro. The smallest bought blanket I had for her had the surcingle buckles replaced with velcro, allowing for a more snug fit....I did my best to make sure she couldn't get her feet hung up in any part of the blanket or surcingle, and that the blanket stayed in place & did not twist or ride up....but if some freak thing had happened so that my baby was injured or killed because of the blanket, sure, I'd have felt horribly guilty, but it wouldn't have made me a horrible, owner that shouldn't ever have owned a foal...I can just imagine what y'all would have had to say about me if I'd left a little newborn foal to shiver in that kind of cold. Heater in the barn wasn't an option for us--I fear barn fires more than I fear a foal hanging itself with a well fitting blanket...

I personally wouldn't even flame the doctor for buying a foal. I've known two cases where an autistic child bonded wonderfully with a foal and made out perfectly fine with the foal--it does depend on a few factors I guess, but I don't think the original post offered enough detail for people here to judge.

[chai]

Luvinfoofy, I am not being heartless. I do feel sorry that the doctor is now feeling terrible about the horrible death the foal suffered. But if you think about the op's post, it sounds like he didn't do any basic homework or ask any horse people about the possible dangers to both his child and the foal before bringing home a 6 month old colt. I am angry that the poor foal suffered such a horrible and possibly slow death because if the op is correct, that man didn't take the time to learn about basic horse management or even flip through the yellow pages to get some advice before bringing home such a potentially dangerous pet for his autistic child.
While I think it's wonderful that Annetta knows two autistic children that bonded well with colts, there is still the element of danger putting any child together with a young colt without knowledgable supervision. I'm just glad that the child wasn't hurt.

[vxf111]

Even horsey people make mistakes http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I came to the barn a few days ago to find the leg straps removed from my gelding's blanket. The turnout person told me she had a bad experience with a pony who got caught up in leg straps. So she thought they were unsafe! If you ask me, no leg straps is a lot more unsafe as the blanket could fly up over his head. So even people who should know better, don't always.

[ChocoMare]

Hopefully I'll hear from the doctor this week. I won't bother to ask him about details because in the grand scheme of things, they don't matter.

I just want to help him get his son into a therapeutic riding program and offer any assistance I can to educate him about horses.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chanter:
Personally, I do hold the DOCTOR greatly responsible in this tragic & hideous death. He is a highly educated man that society renders capable to make highly informed & qualified decisions. His lack of overall common sense & lack of self education before proceeding into this entire matter is appalling. I pray I never get him as a Doctor. I would be afraid of what he did not take the time to educate himself in regard to.

Neither do I deem the seller a saint.

Just my very appalled opinion, over the very traumatic death of an innocent animal.
http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Wholeheartedly agree. This man managed to go through four years of college, God-knows-how-many years of medical school, has an autistic child that may not be responsible for its own actions and he buys a FOAL for the child to play with?!?!?!? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif How does someone get through that much schooling with that much knowledge at their disposal and not have any common sense, or use it? Don't get me wrong - I feel for the man and know he was only trying to do right by the foal by blanketing it, but why the hell did he have it in the first place? And at home?!?!? WTF? http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif</span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chai:
Chanter, I don't think you deserve flames. In fact, I agree with you. I have been a volunteer in Hippotherapy and Therapeutic Horseback riding for many years and imho, it is an amazing thing for children with special challenges. Horses do work magic with autistic children, but buying a foal for a 10 year old autistic child is just irresponsible. If that man is an MD, he should have enough smarts to know that owning a horse is not like owning a dog. He should have done his homework before buying his child any kind of horse or pony.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Thank you for putting my perspective far better than I could. Kind of scary that a man that lacks good judgement to this degree is practicing medicine on humans. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif</span>

imho, he should feel guilty, as he is responsible for the tragic and unnecessary death of that foal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Again, agreed. Had he done his homework and not made such an ill-advised purchase, the foal would very probably still be alive. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif</span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bauhaus:
But I'm stuck on trying to figure out how a colt dies from a "blanket" accident? I've literally never heard of any horse who died or was even seriously injured b/c of getting tangled in a blanket. I'm fairly cavalier about blanketing all who need one when it's cold without much regard to whether they're going to get hurt. And in 25 years of owning many horses of all ages, shapes and sizes I've never had any more than maybe a swollen leg due to getting tangled in a blanket. The primary reason being: the blankets rip and are much less tough than the horse! Has anyone else ever had or heard of a problem with, perhaps, the newer ultra tough and horse-proof blankets actually hurting a horse if he gets it in a tangle? That's the only way I can imagine that this colt was killed due to his blanket. And honestly it gives me a bit of pause in regards to using the ultra tough blankets on young ones.... I never gave it a second thought before this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Excellent question. And another comes to mind - is the doctor sure that it was indeed the blanket that killed the foal? I mean, it isn't like the man has such a wealth of knowledge of horses that he couldn't have mistaken the COD, unless it was obvious. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif</span>

[Sandy M]

I'm sure the death was purely an accident, BUT....

I'm equally sure that this well-educated man would not have bought a stereo, automobile, or lawnmower, or refrigerator (!) without researching first. So I just don't buy the "just didn't know any better. Like buying a puppy for a kid...." argument.

Certainly a middle-aged pony would have been a more appropriate choice, and a quick perusal of something like "Horses for Dummies" would have informed him of that.

Very sad.

[greysandbays]

So, to those who are ripping this doctor a new one -- the next time you come crying to this board about how your horse has this or that or the other thing wrong and begging for "jingles" because the outlook is not good, should we take your current postion that you are useless POS that should never have been allowed to have horses in the first place because OBVIOUSLY, anybody with two brain cells to rub together would NEVER have that sort of thing happen to them?

[katarine]

Get out of my head, greysandbays.

Sheesh, folks- ever had a heart anywhere except on a plate?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Exactly. You CAN'T just know horses are dangerous, and hard to care for. That is why there is so many Equine Liability Laws being put into the books. Because JURIES kept finding the horse owner liable if little suzie ran up behind the horse, on the horse owners property, and got kicked. JURIES made up of educated people think that horses are no different than other DOMESTICATED animals. WE know they react more like WILD animals, but no one else does.

"The waiver shall give notice to the participant of the risks inherent in equine activities, including (i) the propensity of an equine to behave in dangerous ways which may result in injury to the participant; (ii) the inability to predict an equine's reaction to sound, movements, objects, persons, or animals; and (iii) hazards of surface or subsurface conditions."

You have to let people KNOW this, because it is NOT common sense.

OF COURSE a baby would be less dangerous than a mature horse. That is 100% TRUE!!!

[ESG]

Maybe it's just me, but I get a creepy feeling when someone, anyone, is given a pass because "they didn't know" something was dangerous. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

I realize that the vast majority of the posters here are highly experienced horse people, and that we have a different perspective from those folks who think that Disney is the best source of knowledge of equine behaviour. But I should think that as a parent, one would presumably do a little research into buying a pet for one's child, no matter how large or small. And for an autistic child, I should think that that research would be even more intense than for a so-called "normal" child. Jeez, every parent I know that wanted to get a family puppy agonized and researched out the wazoo about which breeds were most compatible with young children, in order to best insure the safety of their kids. And this highly educated man decides that a several-hundred-pound, hard-hooved, harder-toothed baby horse is a good option for his challenged child? Sorry, but you don't have to have specialized knowlege of horses to know that anything young that outweighs your kid several times over is NOT a great option for a pet. This man should have known better - simple common sense. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

I just hope he won't go out and buy another one, for his child's sake. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[deltawave]

Man, there sure is a lot of extrapolation going on from chocomare's original post! She had the good grace and sense to spare everyone details that are nobody's business anyhow, but that doesn't seemed to have stopped the speculators!

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Wow, kinda harsh, Chanter. Just because someone is a doctor and accustomed to making informed decisions doesn't make them omniscient or anything less than HUMAN.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Of course you're allowed to be human. But using one's humanity as an excuse for laziness/negligence is frowned upon, however. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif</span>

I'm a doctor, make important decisions every day, and wouldn't have the FIRST CLUE on how to (for instance) do a proper job of flying an airplane, tending to a salt water aquarium, or helping a cow deliver a too-big calf. I hope to God nobody would judge my medical skills by that admission.

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">No one is saying that. But I'd be willing to bet that if you were called upon to do any of the aforementioned, you'd either A) research the hell out of it prior to doing it or B) simply decline. That's what smart, educated people like doctors do. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif</span>

To err is human. To err BIG TIME is human. To suffer for it is human, too. Tell me you've never made a bad or poorly informed decision that hurt someone else, then tell me where you live and I will come bow at your feet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">Of course we all have made poor decisions. But you have to admit, this one is a biggie, and could easily have been avoided had the gentleman in question used his evidently formidable brain outside his medical practice. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JMO. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif</span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Man, there sure is a lot of extrapolation going on from chocomare's original post! She had the good grace and sense to spare everyone details that are nobody's business anyhow, but that doesn't seemed to have stopped the speculators! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about that. I don't think you have to extrapolate much to figure out that a doctor made a silly mistake that could have cost his child his health/safety. That's pretty obvious. I don't think anyone's trying to blame the doc for putting a blanket on the foal, or that it presumably died from that. That's an accident, pure and simple. But what makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up is the probability that his child would have been injured by this foal. I don't think you'd find much sympathy for the good doctor after that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[RegentLion]

He put a BLANKET on a COLD FOAL for heaven's sake. We don't know lots of things, such as, perhaps he had a trainer, or instructor, maybe he KNEW how to put the blanket on, etc etc.

We do know, however, that the guy is heartbroken,"He feels like he's committed murder.."

So if Chocomare had said "A friend just got a new foal and blanketed it because it was cold out, and came out in the morning to find it was dead..."

I bet everyone wouldn't have just pounced on this dude.

No, I'm not saying it makes it OKAY, but heck, accidents happen to all of us, regardless of how much we know.

I agree, though, that a foal for an autistic child isn't the brightest of ideas, but the REASON he purchased the horse isn't linked to WHAT Happened, or what the guy had learned how to do with the foal.

[deltawave]

Do you mean to say that this is the first reported case of someone buying an inappropriate pet for their child? Or the first known case of something very tragic happening?

I honestly fail to see how everyone can just make the assumptions they are making (about his ignorance, what happened to the foal, how "inappropriate" it was, etc.) from chocomare's original post!! Maybe he had a trainer, maybe he had horses when he was younger, maybe someone talked HIM into buying the foal, maybe the foal colicked for heaven's sake.

Oy vey already with the speculating...you've even got ME doing it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Fairview Horse Center]

Autistic children are bright & capable. And people buy weanling WILD ponies all the time at a certain famous pony swim for their kids. Maybe the Dr saved this foal from slaughter at an auction. Maybe he did have an experienced trainer that helped them choose. Maybe the kid had been in a lesson program. Maybe a friend/councelor WITH an autistic child told him about the success of others with having these kids take care of a foal.

I won't blanket a foal for this very reason, but LOTS of very experienced breeders do.

[JoZ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe a friend/councelor WITH an autistic child told him about the success of others with having these kids take care of a foal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another poster knew of TWO autistic children who had done well with foals. Does that seem like an unusual coincidence? Perhaps there is some sort of bond with autistic children and foals (even if it is not widely known). That's as reasonable a suggestion as a lot of the stuff that's being thrown around here -- you'd think the doctor had thrown his child naked into the stall with the foal. Amazing reactions... I am just shaking my head.

[Caravel]

I have a son (4 years old) who has been diagnosed in the autistic spectrum, and my son has a yearling welsh foal. He's had him since the foal was weaned. Of course I would never let him be with his pony unattended (or even not in my arms!), but I see nothing wrong with having a fancy pony baby growing up at the same time as my son. My son WILL NOT be the one training the pony and the pony poses no more of a threat than any other horse. No horse is 100% predictable, and having a "bombproof" horse just means you let your guard down. My son knows that "horsie toes can hurt" and I am always on guard when he is around the horses, but he wouldn't learn if he wasn't exposed.

I wouldn't trust this pony foal with my son's life, but I also wouldn't trust a 25 year old quarter horse with his life either. He's too important to me.

I'm an educated person, and I have been involved with horses for over 20 years. I don't think that buying a foal for an autistic child is inherently a bad decision, especially not knowing all the facts in the case. I would be devestated if I was this gentleman and these posts were about me.

[RainDancer]

Some of you people need to get off your high horses. It was an ACCIDENT. ACCIDENTS happen. It is unfortunate to happen but it did. My mom bought me my first horse when I was 15. She knew nothing and neither did I. I went to a SELF CARE boarding stable. I had zero knowledge. My mom bought me an untrained, wild 2 yr old filly. I learned, with time and help how to properly care for her. Stop ragging on the guy. Not everyone grew up in horsey families. A whole lot of us have learned our lessons the hard way. Oh and I made a very stupid, lack-of-knowledge mistake with that filly. Fortunately she healed because I have NEVER forgiven myself for being so stupid. I also never made the mistake again. It was one of those hard lessons some of us have to learn along the road of life. So get off the docs back. And I am not a dumb person. I have a great education behind me now. Education does not equate working knowledge.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RainDancer:
Education does not equate working knowledge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearly. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[caballo owner]

One has to ask what the doctor was going to do with a 6 month old foal and his AUTISTIC son?! There is no way that this match would have ever worked, unless the child was only going to watch the foal from afar. It is obvious that the child would have been physically harmed. It is sad that the doctor made an unfortunate mistake of blanketing the foal, though. As many ahev already mentioned, I fault the person who SOLD him the foal. Obviously, money, once again, speaks louder than words.

[YoungFilly]

OK, come on you guys... every *one* of us knows that horses will find amazing ways to hurt themselves despite the best efforts of their owners. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

THAT said, lets think about what the Dr does for a living... he most likely LIVES at work. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

He is probably so engrossed in his work that his brain is only halfway into getting the horse in the first place.

As many others have said, at least they were trying to do the right thing and blanketed the foal. It is cold this time of year in many places. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/yes.gif

Lets face facts: Horses do their best to kill themselves. A person who has no knowledge of horses, and has no time, may make a bad decision. He probably realized this after the fact. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Lets get real... lets hope it doesn't turn him off completely so he never allows his kid who could use an appropriate horse to learn/feel what a horse is. Thats the most sad part. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

If anyone was at fault it was the foals breeder who sold the foal to them. THAT is the person that should know this was not a good situation.

[FindersKeepers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One has to ask what the doctor was going to do with a 6 month old foal and his AUTISTIC son?! There is no way that this match would have ever worked, unless the child was only going to watch the foal from afar. It is obvious that the child would have been physically harmed. It is sad that the doctor made an unfortunate mistake of blanketing the foal, though. As many ahev already mentioned, I fault the person who SOLD him the foal. Obviously, money, once again, speaks louder than words. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm sorry, I just had to comment on this real quick because I have been working with an 8 year old autistic boy for over a year, and how can you say the match wouldn't work?? Autistic children that are at a low functionality level have TSS workers, that are there with them unless they are asleep, 7 days a week. They are trained in all different kinds of therapy, so how do you know that the agency working for this family didn't suggest this as being an emotional outlet for the child? The family I worked for was told to get their son a goat. They did, the goat and boy are best friends, grew up together, and the boy has blossomed as a result of having his special friend, so please dont make assumptions about things you do not have knowledge about.

And as several others have said, this was an accident. It was terrible, but terrible accidents happen everyday, even to HUMAN babies. Should we tell the next person that has a baby die from SIDS that they were unfit to be a parent?

[ESG]

FK, I don't think anyone's disputing the efficacy of hippotherapy for autistic children. The issue here seems to be that the doctor has no experience with horses, knows nothing about them, had no professional help or guidance, and went and bought this weanling colt for his 10 year old autistic son. With no professionals (other than the inexperienced doctor) supervising the interaction, it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility that the child would be injured. IME, weanling colts are not good "pets" for anyone, but especially challenged people with inexperienced supervision. Every intact weanling I've ever encountered needed to be disciplined on a fairly consistent basis to learn manners; someone with no experience won't be able to do that. That, in and of itself, is a recipe for disaster, with not just the child, but the doctor as well. The blind leading the blind, as it were. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

Again, I don't think anyone's faulting the doctor for trying to do right by this colt, in putting the blanket on it. If indeed the colt died from this, it was probably an accident, something that could happen to any one of us. It's the folly of the original choice of the colt for the child that I have a problem with. And to say that someone with whom human lives are entrusted "just didn't know better" and was apparently unwilling to learn, is not an excuse.

JMO. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[deltawave]

Then jeez, well, I guess I'd better never, ever make a mistake of any kind, ever, in YOUR presence. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I entrust my life to lots of people: airline pilots, my trainer, the guy driving in the semi in the next lane, the pharmacist, the dude who makes the soup at Panera bread...kinda scary to think that all those people could make a mistake at ANY MOMENT, huh?

All this BS about autistic kids not being safe around horses is pitiful and a sad bunch of stereotyping. There are plenty of autistic kids that are perfectly fine around animals, and some "normal" kids who are a menace. And why there aren't therefore a HUNDRED threads about parents buying pets that are inappropriate is beyond me.

I challenge those who have never made a mistake--even a BIG one--based upon ignorance to speak up. THOSE people should be horse owners, don't you think? And nobody else.

Anyone? Anyone? I didn't think so.

[saje]

Temple Grandin is autistic. If you don't know who she is, do a google search. Autism/Asperger's IS NOT the same sort of handicap as say Down Syndrome, there are many perfectly teachable Autistics out there.(And perfectly teachable DS kids too, I do know that, just grabbed for a recognizeable, stereotyped syndrome as an illustration)

Good lord you folks are a judgemental lot http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Heller69]

Ok, I thought of this when everyone started jumping on the doctor, so I'll say it.

I hope he's not so judgemental of patients who come into him with cardiac problems who have been, long time smokers, over weight, poor eating habits. I'm sure there are NO people who fit those qualifications here on this board.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Then jeez, well, I guess I'd better never, ever make a mistake of any kind, ever, in YOUR presence. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I entrust my life to lots of people: airline pilots, my trainer, the guy driving in the semi in the next lane, the pharmacist, the dude who makes the soup at Panera bread...kinda scary to think that all those people could make a mistake at ANY MOMENT, huh?

All this BS about autistic kids not being safe around horses is pitiful and a sad bunch of stereotyping. There are plenty of autistic kids that are perfectly fine around animals, and some "normal" kids who are a menace. And why there aren't therefore a HUNDRED threads about parents buying pets that are inappropriate is beyond me.

I challenge those who have never made a mistake--even a BIG one--based upon ignorance to speak up. THOSE people should be horse owners, don't you think? And nobody else.

Anyone? Anyone? I didn't think so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, who licked all the red off your candy? http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

You're arguing with yourself, dw. No one's saying any of us are perfect, but we DO try to use common sense before undertaking a venture about which we know nothing. Those who don't, are stupid. Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. This man was smart enough to get through medical school and be a (hopefully) competent practitioner, but was unable to summon the common sense to investigate something he knew nothing about, before exposing his child (autistic or not) to it? And he should be excused on that point because "he didn't know any better"? Bull$h!t. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[Fairview Horse Center]

So, do you think a 10 year old child should never own a weanling foal? Pony? minature? QH?

I know a 12 year old whose first (ond only so far) was a yearling mustang adopted from the BLM. Wow, what an incredible match. He was in her backyard with no other horses. She spent lots of time just sitting on him - way before the professional was hired to break him. Well, that lasted 3 days, as they just didn't like how he was being treated. So the kid continued on her sitting on him while he walked around. They were SUCH a team - totally bonded, and trusted each other. A year later, he was w/t/c and she built a few jumps (poles on buckets). She trail rode him all over, and his first show, he put our ponies behavior to shame. NOTHING bothered him. He got some nice ribbons, jumped on the horse van each time, what a super boy. Well, the girl is now a Senior at Tech. She FIANLLY convinced her parents to let her take him with her. She is a 5'8" very leggy young lady, riding a 14.2 Mustang. She abslutely loves him.

When I was a kid in elementary school, I had a friend with a chincoteague pony foal. I think we were about 7 years old. She "rode" him - one arm across his back w/t/c using her arm as a leg aid. We had a blast with that pony. We didn't know anything about dangerous horses behavior, but you know what, he didn't know it either. He was kept with one very old retired horse, but most of his time was spent with his kid.

Kids don't get into ANYWHERE at much trouble as adults with youngsters... because they play with them constantly. They hang raincoats off of their ears, make them pull sleds, dress them up in contumes, wrap jingle bells around their legs. The youngsters become totally bomb proof. And they do it at an age where they are very impressionable and it lasts for a lifetime. You get hurt around youngsters when they are afraid. They learn to totally trust their kid.

[mustangrider]

There's an autistic teenage girl in our trail club that gets along just fine on her horse. She attends the meetings and the rides and can handle her horse as well as any "normal" advanced beginner rider. She takes good care of him and treats him with ultimate kindness and love. I wish more kids would take lessons from her on caring for fellow creatures.

[greysandbays]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
......, but we DO try to use common sense before undertaking a venture about which we know nothing. .... And he should be excused on that point because "he didn't know any better"? Bull$h!t. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this ridiculous comment is pure Bull$h!t.

Every year, thousands of incompetent teenagers are turned loose on the roads behind the wheel of a brand new car that is way too much for them. Although many of those kids end up dinging that brand new car, most of them survive (as do most of those unfortunante enough to share their encounter).

Every year, thousands of gung-ho horseowners buy a brand new horse trailer that they haven't a clue how to pull, hook it up to an inadequate towing vehicle, throw their horse on board, and tear off down the highway like it was the Indy 500 or something. Most of them (and their horses) survive, albeit puzzled by why their wonderful horse all of sudden refuses to load onto the trailer.

The world is 95% idiots who don't know enough about what they are doing to be more than half-way safe most of the time. Only a small percentage of them actually come to real grief resulting from their ignorance/stupidity. There are a million things any one person does in the course of their lifetime that has the potential for disaster that never materializes. And there are millions of times where the person does "everything right" and the damn thing STILL goes haywire and ends up in a horrid mess.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.

[deltawave]

It's a wonder ANY of us are still alive, really. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DMK]

Well, shit... Now I'm terrified to drive to TN tomorrow... http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I agree, some of you sound pretty darn judgmental. I mean, let's put it in your own "experienced horse person" speak. Have you ever had a nice horse that you rode and jumped and then had someone else sit on him, only to tell you he was jumping flat or at the jump because he was too sore to jump properly? Shouldn't you have known better if you are a professional? Probably. Did you feel like crap because you missed all the signs? Probably. Are you going to learn a lesson from experience? Hopefully.

[ESG]

Okay - y'all win. Let's have every non-horse person whose sole idea of how to interact with horses comes from watching Disney movies and Black Beauty reruns, go out and buy a weanling colt for their kid to play with. That should solve everything. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[philosoraptor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are you mad at the horse seller? For all we know the buyer was one of those people who *sounded* nice, made promised about great care, and said they had lots of horse friends who'd help them.

I blame the owner who really is the one ultimately responsible here. He is a doctor so presumably he's an intelligent man.... but he thought a baby colt was a good choice as a first-horse and for an autistic child. People like him are why warning labels now cover most everything people buy.

Just the idea of putting a normal child in with a 6 month old colt sounds dangerous to me. I am still in shock -- what was he thinking!?

I feel bad for the horse! Poor thing. And I should probably also feel bad for the child whose father has zero common sense which eventually result in the child being injured next time dad has a "good idea".

[deltawave]

Once again, you have NO IDEA what the owner of the colt was PLANNING to do. For all anyone knows he was going to send the colt to a trainer the NEXT DAY. Talk about leaps of imagination...can we maybe agree that a foal is not a great "pet" and that an accident happened which is tragic and regrettable and maybe just leave our collective imaginations out of it?

[ESG]

I have a grip, thanks. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And for the fiftieth time, no one is blaming the doctor for the accident with the blanket. Shit does indeed happen. To anyone, any time, anywhere.

But that's not what I object to. The OP made it fairly clear that the doctor in question had no help, no knowledge, no clue, and went out and bought an inappropriate horse for his kid to "play with". No trainer, no consulting, no supervision, no one to tell him to smack the little booger when he goes to bite, or not to stand behind him, not to let him step or walk on him or his kid, etc, etc, etc. And if HE doesn't know these things, how will he tell his kid how to handle the horse and not get hurt?

All of you who have foals/weanlings for your kids, I commend you. BUT, I suspect you knew a little about horses in general before putting your precious child in the vicinity of something that could easily injure him/her. You had SOME knowledge of equine behaviour, and could instruct your child in the right way to handle the horse while still learning and enjoying it. This doctor didn't have this, according to the OP. To me, this is inexcusable. You wouldn't hand your child a loaded BB gun, or a string of firecrackers, or even a plastic bag to play with, in case they took it into their head to try to breathe through it. To me, that's what this doctor did; bought a potentially dangerous "toy" for his kid without knowing dick about how to handle it himself, much less tell his kid. Stooooo-pid. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/no.gif

[deltawave]

Isn't there a well-known poster on this BB who is always telling people to "read for comprehension"?

What I can extract from the original post is that the OP heard this story secondhand and WAS GOING TO call the doctor. There the facts end. The rest (to me) sounded like an expression of sadness and frustration. Where is it "fairly clear" that there was no supervision, etc?

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chocomare:
Why in the world would someone sell a colt to someone who knows <span class="ev_code_RED">absolutely nothing about horses, has no experience with horses and to someone who said they were buying the colt for their autistic 10 year old? </span>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you said, read for comprehension. Pretty clear to me. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[valleygirl]

The issue is NOT that accidents happen, as obviously they can and DO - to anybody. Competency and experience is not always going to protect you. The issue here is common sense.

I'm not going argue with anybody who can present numerous examples of children (autistic or not) or adults (intelligent or not) or even turn out buddies (appropriate or not) that enjoy wonderful relationships with their equine friends. That's hardly the point. And suggesting that kids (and I was one of them btw) come to no harm by engaging in fun (albeit thoughtless) behaviors like jumping their ponies over very sharp, very high and very solid white picket fences or dangling strands of barbed wire, bareback with nothing but a lead rope around the neck with no helmet or boots.... or galloping down a slippery paved road at night in the pouring rain cuz you're very LATE... or sitting on a 2 yr old's back, and hoping he stands still while your best friend boosts you aboard whilst throwing handfuls of grain on the ground is not a problem because neither you or me was hurt or killed doing this, is a rather spurious defense at best. As we mature as a society, many situations that were historically considered tolerable (if not perfectly acceptable) have since become problematic concerns. (Examples of this would include drinking/driving, physically abusing your spouse/children, sex with minors (at least in SOME states :-) etc etc.)

Now before anybody gets all bent out of shape and does not understand that the above mentioned scenarios are ILLUSTRATIONS, and instead attempts to suggest that I'm somehow comparing these situations with the doctor in question - please let me state the bleed'n obvious. The good doctor was no doubt well meaning - he felt that a weanling(?) would be beneficial for his obviously loved child, went so far as to select one, and further, cared enough to consider the foal's comfort on a cold night and felt compelled to blanket it. It's really tough to jump all over the doc for these rather altruistic behaviors for sure, and I feel honestly sick for him and the foal. I'm sure all involved are inconsolable. :-(

However, I would bet that his home was very methodically kid proofed (locking up household cleaners/drugs/guns etc ) and I bet his teachers and babysitters were thoroughly vetted, and I bet his child's medications (if any) were fully researched and are carefully dispensed and monitored. This is entirely normal behavior for any parent. Further, we have to remember that fact that the child is 10, and that he is autistic had probably nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that the foal is dead either. So these issues are really kind of a red herring. The real question I would have is if the doctor originally felt that a weanling would be a good "pet" or companion for ANYBODY that lacked fundamental basic horse skills. (Presumably both he and his son would fall in to this category). Even experienced horse people who have ridden all their lives do not necessarily have a clue about handling/disciplining youngsters or stallions or hot horses! It's truly amazing how many very VERY good riders have no idea how to break/start a young horse. And this is not a negative comment or reflection of anybody who just has not had the experience in these kinds of situations! It is merely the reality, and I think that any educated person would (or should) be at least reasonably cognizant of these salient points! Of course you will be able to present exceptions. That's life. But I bet most if not all of you would want an EXPERIENCED person starting your young warmblood..not the enthusiastic 12 yr old horse crazy neighbor girl who is begging you to let her hang around your temperamental 3 yr old. The argument could be made that this girl just MIGHT bond with your youngster - but it is simply not relevant and really does not matter. The PRUDENT decision would be to have the horse started by an experienced competent trainer. Why invite a lawsuit or training setback because you personally know of some 12 yr old who got on some horse for the very first time and now they are kicking serious butt in Pony Club? So what? Exceptions prove nothing, and just wind up encouraging behaviors and supporting decisions that often times just end up disappointing or injuring those involved.

It's very tragic and who knows..maybe everything would have turned out OK sans the blanket incident, but I still think the initial decision was a poor one (or at least questionable) anyways. There are other ways to introduce this kind of environment to those that would most definitely benefit. After all, how many threads are there on COTH warning riders about starting babies when you've never trained before, or buying horses that are hot/flamboyant that they cannot ride or sit? Too numerous to count. Doesn't mean it can never work..but odds are against the alone/inexperienced that's for sure!

JMHO VG

[deltawave]

Original Post:

Paragraph #1: the facts
Paragraph #2: lament and general (although not necessarily fact-based) rhetorical question
Paragraph #3: sympathetic comment
Paragraph #4: plan to help

Sorry, chocomare, to torture your initial and well-meaning post. I will now let ESG have the last word...again. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Fairview Horse Center]

WOW, you guys must raise some serious nutjobs for babieshttp://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We have kids around the babies all the time. The ONLY time I think we need to make sure there is competent help is for things like vet care, farrier care, etc. Basic leading, grooming, etc is just not that dangerous unless you have wacko baby.

Too funny. It starts as a foal, and ends up as an unbroke stallion.

NO one has a clue if they had arranged for someone nearby to be on hand to help them with any problems that develop, help with vet care, etc. The Dr may have made arrangements for lessons for the kid.

Horses kept by themselves are SO incredibly much calmer and more dependable than when they have herd mentality.

Yes, we have grown as a society. Sometimes that is not an improvement. The real horsemen of this world are fast disappearing. Most people now can't read horse body language, and don't have the horse "instincts" that people use to develop by having a closer relationship with their horse.

No one on this thread can have a clue as to if this foal was a good match or not, or how much help was available. Horses are all different. Some are absolute angels, and NOTHING phases them.

Maybe the kid wouldn't have gone near the foal without the horse person overseeing it.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Maybe someday we will look back at those people that use to Event, and say, "WOW, can you imagine how stupid we were when people actually jumped their horses over that kind of stuff? Thank God we have grown as a society and know just how dangerous that stuff was." "WOW, can you imagine people use to actually get on and ride their horses? How stupid!" http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Fairview Horse Center]

BTW, the risks we take now are more civilized. We accept that 100,000. people a year in hospitals will be given the wrong medication/dose, and many of them will die. We accept that nursing staff is so overworked that these things will just happen.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by valleygirl:
The issue is NOT that accidents happen, as obviously they can and DO - to anybody. Competency and experience is not always going to protect you. The issue here is common sense.

I'm not going argue with anybody who can present numerous examples of children (autistic or not) or adults (intelligent or not) or even turn out buddies (appropriate or not) that enjoy wonderful relationships with their equine friends. That's hardly the point. And suggesting that kids (and I was one of them btw) come to no harm by engaging in fun (albeit thoughtless) behaviors like jumping their ponies over very sharp, very high and very solid white picket fences or dangling strands of barbed wire, bareback with nothing but a lead rope around the neck with no helmet or boots.... or galloping down a slippery paved road at night in the pouring rain cuz you're very LATE... or sitting on a 2 yr old's back, and hoping he stands still while your best friend boosts you aboard whilst throwing handfuls of grain on the ground is not a problem because neither you or me was hurt or killed doing this, is a rather spurious defense at best. As we mature as a society, many situations that were historically considered tolerable (if not perfectly acceptable) have since become problematic concerns. (Examples of this would include drinking/driving, physically abusing your spouse/children, sex with minors (at least in SOME states :-) etc etc.)

Now before anybody gets all bent out of shape and does not understand that the above mentioned scenarios are ILLUSTRATIONS, and instead attempts to suggest that I'm somehow comparing these situations with the doctor in question - please let me state the bleed'n obvious. The good doctor was no doubt well meaning - he felt that a weanling(?) would be beneficial for his obviously loved child, went so far as to select one, and further, cared enough to consider the foal's comfort on a cold night and felt compelled to blanket it. It's really tough to jump all over the doc for these rather altruistic behaviors for sure, and I feel honestly sick for him and the foal. I'm sure all involved are inconsolable. :-(

However, I would bet that his home was very methodically kid proofed (locking up household cleaners/drugs/guns etc ) and I bet his teachers and babysitters were thoroughly vetted, and I bet his child's medications (if any) were fully researched and are carefully dispensed and monitored. This is entirely normal behavior for any parent. Further, we have to remember that fact that the child is 10, and that he is autistic had probably nothing to do whatsoever with the fact that the foal is dead either. So these issues are really kind of a red herring. The real question I would have is if the doctor originally felt that a weanling would be a good "pet" or companion for ANYBODY that lacked fundamental basic horse skills. (Presumably both he and his son would fall in to this category). Even experienced horse people who have ridden all their lives do not necessarily have a clue about handling/disciplining youngsters or stallions or hot horses! It's truly amazing how many very VERY good riders have no idea how to break/start a young horse. And this is not a negative comment or reflection of anybody who just has not had the experience in these kinds of situations! It is merely the reality, and I think that any educated person would (or should) be at least reasonably cognizant of these salient points! Of course you will be able to present exceptions. That's life. But I bet most if not all of you would want an EXPERIENCED person starting your young warmblood..not the enthusiastic 12 yr old horse crazy neighbor girl who is begging you to let her hang around your temperamental 3 yr old. The argument could be made that this girl just MIGHT bond with your youngster - but it is simply not relevant and really does not matter. The PRUDENT decision would be to have the horse started by an experienced competent trainer. Why invite a lawsuit or training setback because you personally know of some 12 yr old who got on some horse for the very first time and now they are kicking serious butt in Pony Club? So what? Exceptions prove nothing, and just wind up encouraging behaviors and supporting decisions that often times just end up disappointing or injuring those involved.

It's very tragic and who knows..maybe everything would have turned out OK sans the blanket incident, but I still think the initial decision was a poor one (or at least questionable) anyways. There are other ways to introduce this kind of environment to those that would most definitely benefit. After all, how many threads are there on COTH warning riders about starting babies when you've never trained before, or buying horses that are hot/flamboyant that they cannot ride or sit? Too numerous to count. Doesn't mean it can never work..but odds are against the alone/inexperienced that's for sure!

JMHO VG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How wonderfully, cogently expressed. Thank you so very much for posting. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[sid]

Excellent...well put.

[SBT]

nm

[ChocoMare]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Original Post:

Paragraph #1: the facts
Paragraph #2: lament and general (although not necessarily fact-based) rhetorical question
Paragraph #3: sympathetic comment
Paragraph #4: plan to help

Sorry, chocomare, to torture your initial and well-meaning post. I will now let ESG have the last word...again. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/lol.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I have been reading every reply to this via e-mail notifier, I have been reluctant to return to the fray, but after DeltaWave's very kind post herein above quoted, I felt the need to.

I once heard a line in church: "Christians are the only people who shoot their own wounded." Well...I guess this applies to some horse people too. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

I also haven't updated because I have not been able to reach the doctor because my employee is on vacation this week.

When I am able to reach this gentlemen, I will not jump down his throat for being stupid, ignorant or an idiot. I don't know the rest of the story yet, as Paul Harvey would say. I won't even ask who sold him the colt because: a) it's really none of my business and; b) it would accomplish nothing.

I will, however, gently and kindly ask only those questions that will help me help him. I will offer what encouragement and consolation I can, then point him in the proper direction: toward a therapeutic riding program designed to teach both child and parent. I will also encourage him to visit my barn to see all that is involved with caring for your own horses. All along, I will be praying for wisdom and the right words to say: words to comfort, guide and lift him up. Passing judgement on a man who's already beaten himself to a pulp would accomplish nothing.

I've seen the benefit of horses to all types of children. I worked for a summer at a therapeutic riding program in Atlanta back in 1992. I saw the faces of CP, Down's and autistic children just light up at the sight of their horse waiting for them to go for a ride. I've seen the physical benefit to legs that have no strength of their own to hold up the child, gain that strength and mobility while on horseback. I've also seen children who were the victims of physical and sexual abuse so horrid it would make your skin crawl, come out of their shell in the presence of a horse. I've seen the emotional healing begin because of the love of a horse.

I'm no doctor, psychologist or counselor. I'm just a woman who has a past of her own, who knows that without God and horses, I'd be just another statistic. I would love nothing more than to see this man and his precious son, engaged with horses, growing together and seeing a future beyond the "diagnosis" of autism.

Sorry...I'll get off my soapbox now. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/cry.gif

Amazing how a thread can just turn into a something you never thought of. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/sigh.gif

[deltawave]

Good for you, chocomare. A little kindness surely goes farther than heaps of venom, all evidence on this thread to the contrary.

[monstrpony]

What Two Simple said. Way to go, Chocomare, you are the blessing in this unfortunate situation.

[2ndyrgal]

Ok, here's my two cents. I bought an 4 month old mustang colt at a BLM auction in VaBch years ago. I worked on the farm at the time and had a chance to observe the colt in the pens w/60 other horses. By day 3 he was smart enough to come to the fence for the nummies and squidgies. I bought him as a companion to a recently orphaned filly of the same age. We had a handicapped riding program on our farm. My colt, within 2 weeks of his arrival, was walking up to the kids in wheelchairs, didn't care about quick moves, big hugs, rough pats, ear pulling or screaming meemies, he just behaved around them all like a big gentle puppy. He is living the life of riley now with an older couples disabled/challenged grandchildren and has given them years of pleasure and happiness. The worst acting stud on the racetrack often leads like an old schoolie when the groom with a bent leg or a crippled arm takes him to the blacksmith. Many an experienced horseman has come home or woken up to a tragic accident, and the worst novice in the world can do things you or I would NEVER do, and his horses don't get hurt. I hope he gets another one.

[cmw]

there is nothing in the article to indicate how or in what way this man's disabled child is in fact, disabled. in fact, there are so many assumptions being made in these posts that i can't believe it, nor the presumptuousness that makes one want to call up a private person and intrude upon what is obviously a very difficult situation.

nothing says whether the man is an experienced horse owner or not. sure - it's possible, that he was an experienced breeder or trainer, and he had a foal in a foal blanket, properly fitted, and in a stall with no projections, hooks or other hazards, and that he had someone in the barn checking the foal every hour or so, to be sure the blanket was secure, and that just for a single second, the care giver turned away and the foal in some bizarre move killed itself on the blanket instantly.

the opposite is also possible, that a young, frightened weanling was left alone for hours or days while the parents tended to a child that demands 24 hr supervision around the clock, and was in unsuitable housing, with insufficient ventilation, projections, and a poorly fitted blanket that killed it, and that it struggled for hours until it died in pain and terror.

having been in the news does not make the person public property, or an automatic recipient of everyone's 'help'.

sure, there are genius and autistic savants, but the statistics are NOT there with you, previous poster. autistic savantism is extremely rare, though glamorous, at least in the media. in fact, higher functioning autistic children and adults are very, very challenging to deal with, and them being in the autistic savant spectrum does not make it any easier to deal with. but the bottom line is that neither you nor anyone else knows in what way, or how extremely this autistic child is disabled. you're all making tons of assumptions.

first of all, these days, the autistic spectrum includes mildly impaired children - not that they're any easier to deal with, or any easier to generalize about. too, parents often 'simplify' for the outside world, and the 'autistic child' may have a mixed disorder, with seizures, severe retardation, childhood psychosis, disintegrative disorder with severe regression, asperger's syndrome (social and behavioral problems abound but not the lack of language many autistics have), or PDD - a pervasive developmental disorder that ranges greatly in severity and degree of disability.

at the same time, the statistics still are very gloomy on autism in general. 50 percent of autistic diagnosed-people still do not have meaningful language, and 90 percent require intensive supervision as adults - only a small percentage will ever work, marry, etc. autism is, in fact, NOT a movie disease, the majority of autistics are not like rainman or the person he was based on, and dealing with a nosy public and all the different 'health care providers' with their quack cures and claims, and one's own depression, fear and guilt, are not exactly a walk in the park.

at the same time...the presence or absence of an autistic child does not change the basic facts of this. an uninformed person did something stupid with an animal, and it died. it isn't particularly unusual to blanket a foal, but the blanket has to be specially designed so it doesn't catch on things - and even more importantly, the stall where the foal is kept has to be free of any projections, sharp edges or hardware, because foals always find these things and hurt themselves on them.

the doctor, because he has a disabled child, is not liberated from all responsibility of taking care of an animal he brings into his home - nor of being informed about its needs.

he made a mistake. inappropriate equipment, and most likely stabling as well. like many people, he got a horse without knowing anything about it. i, unlike others, do NOT feel this is so extremely excusable. there are books, there are people to ask - we would be upset, i think, if a person tied up a puppy, and it lept off a table, say, and broke its neck - after struggling for hours at the end of a leash, say.

we might defend the person if we had done something similar in our lifetime - but that still doesn't excuse him, or ourselves. if we accidentally caused an animal's death, it is, in fact, our responsibility, and our fault.

people will range all over the map in how forgiving they are of these things...but in my book, the presence of a disabled child does not excuse irresponsible behavior.

in fact, autistic children do seem to inspire in some families the most irresponsible behavior imaginable, such as one child i know who was fed poisonous bark and powdered silver, with horrible gastric problems and lifelong injury as a result. autistic children have been fed pig hormones, huge doses of steroids, and a broad variety of things by 'well meaning' parents. they have been killed by despondent parents, who did then kill themselves - this is NOT a situation any human being can really, completely be expected to adapt to gracefully- many parents do not - many do - many do not.

in fact, there is nothing magical bestowed on a parent because he or she has an autistic child, neither are they excused from treating animals properly, doing stupid stuff, nor are they automatically bestowed with special qualities because they have an autistic child.

of course...many people grow and mature due to being put in the situation of having a disabled child...and many, quite frankly, do not. many people handle it terribly, and don't ever come to terms with it or deal with it effectively. they should not receive a pat on the back when they do something stupid and irresponsible, and then complain about their lot in life and blame their mistakes on their disabled child's needs.

animals are, at times, pulled into this mess, and parents of disabled children are no special breed apart with no faults - that's a fallacy. i've seen parents get dogs for such children, and then lament how hard their lot is, having a disabled child, when the dog winds up eviscerated with a broomstick shoved up its backside. if it's too much to take care of the animal in with the disabled child, don't get the animal.

a child or adult that has an impaired ability to understand the world may not always understand that animals feel pain (if he can't understand the word or concept himself, he can hardly be expected to project that to an animal), and if his illness chiefly features abnormal behavior that he or she cannot control, again, why would they be left alone with an animal.

disabled children are NOT universally helped by animals, and animals are NOT universally happy to 'bond' with them - that is a romantic fallacy. it is very hard on the animals - an agitated, restless, screaming child will frighten animals, we have had several very, very nice stable dogs 'flunk out' of such therapy work - it is NOT so wonderful for the dog always - it takes an extremely special animal to do the work, and an even more special and rare animal to not be turned into a nervous wreck doing the work. much like any caregiver, therapy animals can have a very, very hard lot in life.

and there is an emerging area of ethics involving animals as therapy animals, which does NOT universally approve of the broad use of animals as therapy animals, OR suggest that all therapy animals are suitable OR happy doing such work - in fact, quite the opposite.

the bottom line is this. animal welfare is not something that disappears because the animal owner has a disabled child. he still has a responsibility to be educated and sensible in his use of animals as a servant to man - for any purpose, be it pulling a plough or being a therapy animal. ignorance or having too much to do is no excuse - none at all.

my worst fear is that the family was dragged into this by some well meaning relative or friend who was all ga-ga about therapy animals for autistics, having watched some stupid, romantic movie about the subject. there is a particularly idiotic movie with the premise that an autistic child became perfectly normal again and started speaking (many parent's only wish in life is that their autistic child could speak, just once) because of a pony. often parents are dragged into these things by well meaning 'helpers' who feel they just must push in and offer their...'advice'.

who's the hero here? no one. the father made a big, stupid mistake. the breeder sold a baby to a person they NEVER should have sold it to. the family and friends deserve a slap upside the head for encouraging, or at least not attempting to stop this, as do the health care givers involved.

heros? none in this story.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Wow SLC, you started out lecturing others jumping to conclusions, and ended up jumping to a whole lot more yourself...

Hopefully the OP will find out more detalis, and be able to help this family.

[cmw]

what have i assumed? i covered the problems and issues of disabled people in general, and made no assumptions about the man and the foal.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Two Simple:
Chocomare - I'm so glad it is YOU in this situation and not ESG. Geeze. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/dead.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And why is that, pray? I didn't blame the doctor for causing the colt's death. I just said I thought he shouldn't have had it to begin with. So what's wrong with that?

[ESG]

No need. I know what I said. The man was stupid for getting his kid a weanling colt. That's the long and short of it. Anything else that happened was just the way things go sometimes. Perhaps you should re-read my posts; then maybe you'd see that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif

[cmw]

whether the man had a disabled child, or how disabled the child was or anything else is not the issue, it is just clouding the issue. the issue was that an animal died due to incorrect management. the man with the disabled child will not be the first or last to do so, it is still not something to be encouraged.

ethics and moral judgements in people are a very interesting and complex subject, and an ever changing one.

in the 1930's daphne du maurier wrote a book called 'rebecca' in which the beautiful wife was a slu*, and the reading audience of the time was quite comfortable with him shooting her. she was a slu*, after all.

but a few years later, when the movie was made of the book, she wasn't shot. she slipped and fell and struck her own head and died on the spot, and her husband hid her death rather than be suspected of it, which we could forgive him for. we rooted for his adoring new, innocent young wife and hissed his old much more beautiful but 'bad' wife.

we make value judgements and we judge people...but those judgements change over time and are often influenced by considerations that have nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with our changing and very inconsistent and individualized ideas about what is right.

which is why we have laws and courts.

slc

[Huntertwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Do you mean to say that this is the first reported case of someone buying an inappropriate pet for their child? Or the first known case of something very tragic happening?

I honestly fail to see how everyone can just make the assumptions they are making (about his ignorance, what happened to the foal, how "inappropriate" it was, etc.) from chocomare's original post!! Maybe he had a trainer, maybe he had horses when he was younger, maybe someone talked HIM into buying the foal, maybe the foal colicked for heaven's sake.

Oy vey already with the speculating...you've even got ME doing it! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Deltawave, very good point. Look at the parents who purchase Tigers, Lions and other exotic pets and their kid ends up missing an arm or worse.

[Huntertwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
No need. I know what I said. The man was stupid for getting his kid a weanling colt. That's the long and short of it. Anything else that happened was just the way things go sometimes. Perhaps you should re-read my posts; then maybe you'd see that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boy are you relentless... Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Apparently never by the way you are appointing yourself the Judge, Jury and Executioner of this well meaning gentleman.

Your signature says it all "Apathy" ??? Well done.

[deltawave]

Careful, she will take that as a compliment. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Scootie]

Um....

First of all there is a LOT more to this story that we DON'T know that what we DO know. Without being presented with many more FACTS, whch BTW, are none of our business, there is no way anybody can comment on the wisdom of the man's decisions. We don't really know what plans were being made, the intentions, and who else might have been involved.

slc, with all your pontificating on the subject of handicapped children, you are missing one EXTREMELY essential point. Which is that all children with disabilities are, above and before all else, INDIVIDUALS. It's irresponsible to make judgements reagarding whether something is suitable for a particular child without knowing them very well with their own unique attributes.

I think it would be safe to assume that the father of this little boy knows his own child far better then you, A PERFECT STRANGER, and what is best for said child.

Also, someone very close to me has been told they present the symptoms of asperger's syndrome. This is a very intelligent, sought after, expert in his professional field. He is also a very sensitive, caring person, and has a wonderful rapport with animals, including horses. So I suppose, according to your specifications, this is not a suitable person to be in a relationship with? I hardly think so!

ESG, all I'm going to say, and I don't expect you to "hear" any of this, is that your commentary is purely mean-spirited and uncalled for.

[Scootie]

chocomare, I want to commend you on being a truly caring person and for offering your assistance to this doctor. I can only imagine what he has been going through. I would just introduce myself and ask how I might be of assistance and take it from there. It may well be that he already has an array of resources at hand, or it may be he really needs a lot of help. Anyway, I think what you are trying to do is simply wonderful.

[tbluv]

Well let me just say I've had a accident with a blanket before...

My young mare grabbed at the front straps (they were like dog collar buckles and somehow managed to get the strap caught behind the front incisors on her bottom jaw. She struggled and freaked out she could not lift her head from her chest...she fell to the ground she could not get up.

Someone had to physically CUT the strap off...and the only reason anyone could get close to her was because she couldn't breathe and exhausted herself to the point she could no longer fight. Had a night check not happened that night the horse would be dead.

It could happen to anyone...it is so very tragic =*(

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Huntertwo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
No need. I know what I said. The man was stupid for getting his kid a weanling colt. That's the long and short of it. Anything else that happened was just the way things go sometimes. Perhaps you should re-read my posts; then maybe you'd see that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boy are you relentless... Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Apparently never by the way you are appointing yourself the Judge, Jury and Executioner of this well meaning gentleman.

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Oh, do please read everything, and not just skim the posts, if you're going to make judgements about them. I keep saying that I'm not blaming the man for what happened to the foal. Why does everyone keep conveniently ignoring that point?!?!?!? I just think he shouldn't have had it in the first place. And I'M not executing anyone.</span>

Your signature says it all "Apathy" ??? Well done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Again, it says "east of apathy". And do you know what that word means? Because it certainly doesn't seem like it, from the way you've used it. Look up words you don't know, dear - makes you look a lot smarter. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif</span>

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deltawave:
Careful, she will take that as a compliment. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, come on, dw - surely you can think of a snappier insult than that. Get creative, why don't you! http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scootie:
ESG, all I'm going to say, and I don't expect you to "hear" any of this, is that your commentary is purely mean-spirited and uncalled for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see.......a person buys an inappropriate pet for his child, doesn't know how to take care of it, it dies, and I'm the bad guy?!?!?

Oohh-kay. http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[RainDancer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
No need. I know what I said. The man was stupid for getting his kid a weanling colt. That's the long and short of it. Anything else that happened was just the way things go sometimes. Perhaps you should re-read my posts; then maybe you'd see that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It appears, by reading your posts, that you would jump down the man's throat instead of showing him compassion. That is how you come across.

[Alagirl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RainDancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ESG:
No need. I know what I said. The man was stupid for getting his kid a weanling colt. That's the long and short of it. Anything else that happened was just the way things go sometimes. Perhaps you should re-read my posts; then maybe you'd see that. http://chronicleforums.com/images/custom_smilies/winkgrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Under normal circumstance, would you not think that buying a weanling for a ten year old child was stupid, dangerous, not well thought out...yes?



It appears, by reading your posts, that you would jump down the man's throat instead of showing him compassion. That is how you come across. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>